Solving the Mystery of Innistrad's Missing Archetype

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One of Magic's Biggest Recent Failures. Double Feature! Box Opening and Deck Building - • One of Magic's Biggest...
00:00 Intro
00:43 Innistrad Breakdown
02:18 My Inspiration
03:47 The Absense
04:42 An Old Problem
05:18 Cracking the Case
05:50 Wait for it...
06:20 Hear Me Out
07:04 The Cool Bit
07:30 The Evidence
10:33 The Smoking Gun
11:01 Closing Remarks
12:00 Patreon Credits

[@opinionofmine3238]

You know, this one actually holds some water. My first guess was shapeshifters (like all the green-blue things secretly being shapeshifters which could also work with gothic horror tropes), but this certainly works better.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Who says they aren't shapeshifters too? How would you ever know?

[@opinionofmine3238]

@@RedBobcatGames dun dun dun

[@Vitaire]

@@RedBobcatGames Damn, shapeshifting pirate wizards huh? Now that's a set I can get behind.

[@Stickweasel91]

Pirate Wizards fighting Vampire Aristocrats and Druidic Werewolves sounds TOO good to ignore.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I want them to go back again to Innistrad just for this alone

[@silphonym]

I think that WIzards is too constrained by the top down gothic horror idea to really explore this archetype much further, but I do think it could work very well if properly executed.

[@RedBobcatGames]

How about adventuring piratre wizards who fight sea monsters and dig up treasure?

[@Executioner9000]

@@silphonym maybe its all those guys stuck in Maine looking for Cthulhu

[@vojtechpikal183]

Does it also have zombie ninjas?

[@deohere7647]

A slight shift from wizard schools to something more akin to Hermetic Orders and Secret Socieites inspired by real world esoteric societies of the Rennisance would work so well for the plane of innistrad it's not even funny.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true. There's a bunch of cultists on the plane, but they're all demon worshippers. We could do so much more

[@ratoskryt7138]

Hermetic orders is exactly the concept I was trying to think of but couldn't place!

[@ErikratKhandnalie]

This would finally get me to play blue

[@RedBobcatGames]

@ErikratKhandnalie If you're looking for a fun Blue card from Innistrad I like to build around my I suggest Mind's Dilation. It's so cheesy and expensive, but I love it

[@velphidrow8317]

Agreed. Occultism would fit well with the rest of the plane

[@kiraangle2823]

This is probably the most positive wizards video ive seen in months and its still about things they cut or were too scared to try

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ha! I do create them on occasion

[@andrewgreen2059]

Yeah modern wizards hasn't done a lot of good stuff recently.

[@RedBobcatGames]

They're not all bad, but they do certainly seem to live in the shadow of Harsbro these days

[@benletmepetthatdog4243]

this would neatly fit into the whole "foggy coastal town in (new) england with mysteries and disappearances" trope and im fully on board

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I'd love to see it explored more. Hopefully we'll go back to the plane at some point

[@NXTangl]

​@@RedBobcatGamesA thought occurs: what happens when you mix a gothic setting with cosmic horror and thalassophobia? You get Innsmouth. We already had the sea, the gothic, and the horror, but now Emrakul is here too. Maybe Her presence can draw the existing Deep Ones to the surface like a rising tide. Tide is a lunar phenomenon, after all... In short: I think the idea of a mysterious seaside town with people who aren't quite human and don't take kindly to outsiders is definitely gothic enough to fit just fine, and the hermetic and arcane traditions that tune into the vast and unfathomable ocean is a great way to flavor blue and green magic. Young adults given in ritual marriage to Dagon, who teaches them the secrets of the ocean in Her school under the waves.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@NXTangl See? That all sounds great. I think this idea has legs

[@CoolTrainerJulio]

This actually makes me think that it may have been a lovecraftian cosmic horror thing instead. Think of scholars at Miskatonic University trying to unravel the mysteries of the necronomicon. Pirates encountering unknowable horrors out at sea. And all in that New England setting.

[@CoolTrainerJulio]

@@NXTangllol I saw your comment right after posting mine. Totally agree!

[@iant4930]

We still don't know where Kasmina is from, and a pirate wizard from the eternity's worst plane would have a pretty compelling motivation to try and take over the multiverse. Also her magic turns people into frogs.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well, damn. Because now if this isn't the case I'm going to be disappointed

[@vennin7781]

Really makes Galvanic Alchemist look like her now that you bring that up lol. Her art in stryxhaven even has her surrounded by owls.

[@dac314]

Kasmina is trying to take over the multiverse...? Get it girlboss!

[@pvt.dicksimmons2225]

Dude I think you're right. It's not much, but her staff looks just like a basic swamp from innistrad. If you compare [WAR 056] Japanese to [SOI 291] by Andreas Rocha, it looks like the same stick. It looks similar in any of her other arts as well, but the Japanese alternate of Kasmina is the closest.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@pvt.dicksimmons2225 Oh wow, yeah those are Crypotolith's created by Nahiri to summon Emrakul. These have power over the Eldrazi, and were shaped by the UG occultists of Innistrad during SOI. This... this lines up!

[@nymeriaphaedrus1197]

I think a card that neatly supports this theory is Suspicious Stowaway//Seafaring Werewolf, which is to say, I'm very on board with this theory

[@RedBobcatGames]

How did I miss this? This card was literally one of the cards that got me originally thinking about this... and I didn't include it in the video...

[@brromo]

I conjecture that the reason it was "lost" is because in Shadow's block, the GU theme was Emrakul, look at Coax from the Blind Eternities, Drag Under, Eldritch Evolution, & Grapple with the Past; or that of the 10 cards with emerge 4 are blue, 3 are green, & the only gold one is GU, or that the one spell that Emrakul herself casts in the story, Imprisoned in the Moon, is blue

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true. Perhaps all those missing wizards became the cultists we see?

[@Shaviine]

Just like Bloodborne!

[@soarel325]

I should note that the Innistrad wizards (including the archmages mentioned) are actually part of the church - they’re in blue, green, and red because those are the secondary colors of the three archangels. The thing that makes them distinct from other spellcasters is that they're from bloodlines that have been blessed by the archangels in question. It's possible that the reason they were forgotten on our 3rd visit to the plane was because of the death of 2/3 of the archangels

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh that's interesting. Think we'll see a bunch of Black mana wizards now that Liesa is back?

[@soarel325]

@@RedBobcatGames Unsure what the future of Innistrad holds, tbh

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah. I'm hoping that Remaster that's been annoucned does well and reignites interest and passion in the plane

[@yurisei6732]

This is a really interesting analysis, but I want to take it further by offering the gothic component: They're not just Pirate Wizards, they're Thelemic Pirate Wizards. Most of what forms the gothic horror genre today was invented by 18th and 19th century novellists romanticising the sense of mysterious history linked to gothic architecture of the middle ages. This formed part of a wider cultural fascination with the old at the time, that saw nobility become interested in all manner of historical myths, including witchcraft, divination, tarot, and esotericism. Esotericism, including alchemy, is aesthetically quite closely tied to gothic fiction, although it never made it into gothic literature back then. As fantasy genres developed, esotericism became wizardry and ended up cleansed of its eerieness and mythology, replaced by the shiny new enlightened rationality approach. The gothic element lost from literature remained in new-age religions that took inspiration from esotericism, chief and coolest amongst those being Thelema, which these days is often referenced in fantasy works. Thelema has also sometimes been described as the mirrored twin of witchcraft. In other words: There are four basic types of magic in western fantasy tradition, tied to the four basic worldviews of importance across the West at the time: Christianity, Paganism, Enlightened Thinking, and Esotericism. Christianity and Paganism are already strongly associated with the middle ages and earlier, so fit right into gothic no questions asked, the latter becoming "witchcraft". Enlightened Thinking is directly at odds with the gothic, which embraces emotion and uncertainty, so the wizards who treat magic as a science feel out of place in gothic horror, unless they're Frankenstein-style mad scientists who are able to retain an emotional aspect by basically being bad at science. Then there's esotericism, which loves the archaic and the mysterious, but attempts to approach it from an analytical perspective. They're occultists, people who study the imaginary as if it were real, people who are fascinated by mythology not because they wish to worship anything but because they wish to understand everything. Those are your gothic wizards. And they were definitely the first ones to embrace the Eldrazi when they showed up.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh boy, maybe that's why we don't see many of them in the later sets then? They all got mushed up into one by Emrakul. It's a good theory, I like it!

[@mawtaus]

@@RedBobcatGames You could easily describe the ones that weren't changed as "occultists/warlocks who finally saw an Elder god from beyond dimensions manifest itself in their realm". They could very well be emboldened by this validation of their beliefs and be trying to find a way to free Emrakul or otherwise once again open the way.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@mawtaus And now from Modern Horizons we see that she's out of the moon... You could be on to something

[@alizah8042]

You are the coolest!!!

[@willofthewinds3222]

@@RedBobcatGames As a bonus thing, look at Emerge, the Eldrazi mechanic in EMN. 2 Black cards, 3 Green Cards, 4 Blue, and one Blue/Green Card. That and a load of other Eldrazi cards seem primarily associated with Blue and Green during the invasion, which makes me think that those who were associated with these wizards were absorbed into Emrakul's Presence.

[@babony5]

The Planeswalkers guides to Innistrad mention that Nephalia sailors, smuglers, and fishers have their own style of magic to navigate the seas while Plane Shift: Innistrad mentions that a PC wizard can be an “Avacynian Archmage”. So lore wise, it makes sense that the plane would have magic schools to train new sailors and church wizards.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Slam dunk! I love it! I'm taking this as proof! Thank you for the comment!

[@zasshulad2619]

Pirates aren't even that tonally inconsistent when you consider that a lot of gothic horror does take place near the sea and in this sense has overlap with Lovecraftian horror which innistrad has as well and it also has eldritch horror.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true. I think had I framed this as "Occultists" rather than "Wizards" it would have felt a lot more natural from the off

[@HexatheonRPG]

@@RedBobcatGames The allusion to Lovecraft works on a ton of levels too, obviously the main one being Nephalia's coastal cults. I know Krothuss is Blue/Black, but it seems to be implied that there's more than just him under the sea, and colour pie wise, seeking the knowledge of a primeval order is incredibly Blue/Green. Obviously it could feel a bit like a retread of Shadow Over Innistrad but I think the wizards being functional cultists by virtue of their pursuit of information "humanity isn't meant to know" would make it different enough than a huge cataclysm. That being said, them butting up against the growing worship of the harvest deities could also be a cool angle.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, that could be fun to see actually. And would give us space to print a bunch more magic users in Green for both groups

[@imaginarymatter]

This lines up with an idea I had for a re-re-re-visit to Innistrad which takes place several decades into the future and Innistrad has become the scientific romanticism plane (think Jules Verne and H.G. Wells) with an ocean horror story. The basic premise is that Liesa and SIgarda unite the various human factions into a single group against the Phyrexians. Together with groups like the necro alchemists experimenting with the fallen corpses of phyrexians humanity rapidly advanced the technological development of the plane. Innistrad in this story is one where the humans are finally the dominant force of the plane with technology pushing back the horrors of the plane. However, the antagonist faction are a group of secretive green-blue mystics led by an Aleister Crowley like figure who worship something from within the deep of Innistrad's oceans.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Runo Stromkirk would force his way into that group if he's still about. I honestly wish I understood what his card from DBL was about. Did he... turn into his god? Or, did he die when he summoned it? Or are both sides of his card just representing two beings and they fact it transforms means nothing? Very confusing. They did the same thing with an Ludevic card

[@imaginarymatter]

@@RedBobcatGames I think Runo is like Extus and Awaken the Blood Avatar. And like poor Extus, Runo summoned his kraken god which then proceeded to eat him.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@@imaginarymatter I'm on board with that explanation haha

[@donniejefferson9554]

​@@RedBobcatGames If we're talking about the Crimson Vow one, on the black and white alt art you can see a tiny little Runo floating in front of Krothuss. Seems to confirm that he's summoning rather than actually transforming.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@donniejefferson9554 Well look at that. Thank you! Of course, now I've gone from being confused about these cards to REALLY disliking them. If you want two different creatures, just print two different cards. Now in a game of commander, you can never have both on the battlefield at once. Infuriating!

[@somebodyrandom27]

During Eldritch Moon, Innistrad did have a Blue/Green faction: Eldrazi, and the Cultists that Worshipped them. The Eldrazi probably won't be able to take that role again, but perhaps Horrors could fill their role?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah that's fair. Though I feel like cultists are only a stones throw away from pirate wizards tbf

[@percyvile]

Would love to see cultists returned again (though maybe without the actual eldarzi). Imo the children of the corn stuff is probably the coolest bit of midnight hunt, maybe after a time skip innestrad comes to forget the trevails and a sect who worship the moon and her Kin 'emerge'.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I would LOVE to get a 5 colour Emerge commander at some point. I'd run all the emerge Eldrazi (of course) but those Eldrazi Werewolves and those meld cards too. It would be terrible, but I'd love it

[@somebodyrandom27]

@@RedBobcatGames Honestly, considering how Horrors are usually linked to the ocean, the two concepts could be melded (heh) together. Imagine a group of Pirate Wizards who study the strange creatures of the deep in order to further their understanding of magic.

[@JaxonRabbit]

This is where I was in the first 5 mins but the vid is very persuasive, like we've heard how they workshopped Innistrad and just wrote spooky things in a brainstorm and theres no way Eldritch Horror didn't come up and when they went back they certainly explored that theme. They probably sidelined it a bit because that was a LONG time ago and they were admittedly cashing in on Twilight, The Walking Dead etc. prime zombie/vampire/werewolf media age of OG Innistrad. When that zeitgeist had passed, and return to Innistrad the Eldritch(read: Eldrazi) Horror was definitely more leaned into straight up being the narrative arc of the new Gatewatch and Ugin and everything. Both makes sense, because we never got an answer, we get to chose one, and choose your own ending Horror, that's a genre too.

[@reverbstarlight3405]

“Cool as hell” is pretty much all the reasoning I need to overlook “tonally inconsistent”. Frick yeah dude!

[@RedBobcatGames]

The rule of cool, and I really love the idea of pirate wizards!

[@Lucarioguild7]

Thats basically the reasoning for dragons on Innistrad lol

[@RedBobcatGames]

@Lucarioguild7 Yeah true, I do love them

[@daemonstail9226]

It seems we even have a name for these wizards. The Skifsang as mentioned on Chant of the Skifsang. The flavor text reads “The skifsang, seafarers of Nephalia, craft spells like other sailors craft nets-making them strong enough to snare even the deadliest catch.” So yeah pirate wizards basically. Would be interesting to see them touch on in a future set.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Can't believe I didn't spot this and make the connection! It 100% should have been in the video

[@JervisGermane]

Innistrad: The Tide of the Skifsang

[@hobobeard]

WB is absolutely NOT for the benefit of humanity no matter what Sorin tells anybody or himself. It’s about maintaining the status quo. WB cards in Innistrad give while also taking. Everything has a cost and often that comes is the life of someone. As for Sorin, everything he does is to soothe his ego, encourage sympathy or to engender a situation in which all parties treat him favorably. The only time he does anything for anybody else it is solely driven by a desire to make “management” of the plane easier for him so that he may have more time to feel sorry for himself.

[@RedBobcatGames]

what about Liesa?

[@hobobeard]

@@RedBobcatGames I have long thought that she was a storyline character that got benched and was temporarily forgotten until they needed to fill out the lineup of Short Story Focus characters. She honestly feels more like a Commander product tie-in than anything else.

[@TheArcv2]

Exactly, Sorin is the type of person whose bold and radical solutions to problems also happen to be the one that inconveniences their lifestyle as little as possible

[@RedBobcatGames]

I have many many thoughts on Sorin, and am planning on doing a video on them at some point. But A. the video will be like 2 hours long, and B. I'm not sure i'm the best person to discuss it. If ever I collab with another MtG youtuber watch this space haha

[@hobobeard]

@@RedBobcatGames @silvermyr might be a good choice if you want to discuss the personalities or morality of characters based on flavour text, tertiary material and the implications of mechanical effects. He’s well into this kinda stuff.😅

[@Crawver]

I really like this theory, and I think it has legs. I don't think it's quite as specific as "pirate wizards", but rather the more a pessimistic, practical side of wizardry on such a dire plane. They don't have the luxury to be just a university, a place of pure learning, so they focus their efforts on more in-the-moment styles of education and goals. And if you've graduated with a suite of very powerful survival skills? Why not become a pirate, an explorer, or use what you know to better your life directly. I like the reading of it's wizardry as a trade. Pragmatic wizards. Which does mean you get wizard pirates.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh that's a very cool idea. And "pirate" is just a subset of these wizards. That would also explain why some of them become Alchemists in the forest. Yeah, this works

[@vaunsinrin7897]

That's it, you've convinced me. Wizard Pirates indeed need to be on Innistrad next time we visit.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? Tell me about it! I'd love to see it explored

[@orobors]

Innistrad having Earthsea-style wizards actually makes sense to me.That series has some fun dark bits (like the Nameless Ones) and I could definitely see pirate-wizards as a archetype.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm unfamiliar with Earthsea, but after a brief google I think I'll have to add it to my reading list. Thanks for the recommendation

[@sn0wO]

it is also worth remembering that "soulbond" mechanic was slightly pushed into blue green. later on, clues fell into that blue green slot. i think it has always been the "mysteries" color pair. thats why tamiyo was in those colors as a researcher.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true. I feel like perhaps there could be some cross over there. Maybe all those pirate wizards became cultists of Emrakul?

[@Timmir00]

This was my thought as well. UG feels very much like the culmination of the mysteries within Innistrad. The things that aren't necessarily horrors, but that we don't fully understand on the plane. Hence why a lot of the green blue cards seem so muddled when it comes to creature type, because they are more closely tied to a theme rather than a tribe.

[@noatrope]

@@Timmir00Something I remember thinking about as "where could Innistrad go after Emrakul" involved a single line from I think the original guide to the plane: Innistrad used to have elves, but they went extinct. And how is *that* even possible? Just dying on Innistrad is next to impossible, let alone vanishing without a trace. I imagine the moon shifting and opening up clearings in the Ulvenwald that are suddenly possible to find on purpose, long earthen barrows surrounded by unknown runes, full of eerily-preserved bodies that are not merely dead but *inanimate* in a way that makes them immune to necromancy. Guarded by... not spirits, exactly, but the elves' mindless memories of themselves, speaking no language and thinking no thoughts and obliterating intruders with powerful magic they seem to cast purely on instinct. Tones of the Green Children of Woolpit, and Arthur Machen's "The White People", and kodama, and the Bloodborne bath messengers, and more subtly of alien abductions and "The Stone Tape". I feel like that fits in nicely with UG and the theme of mysteries and occult explorers.

[@LibrarianOfLeng]

This is why we need the original Innistrad style guide

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, things seems to have gotten a bit... weird on the plane recently. I'm really not sure why there was a wedding set. Very odd

[@jots083]

A strong school of wizards would’ve been a great inclusion for the more cosmic horror elements seen in the later sets. Miskatonic university anyone?!

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'm both glad and very surprised that it's not just me that thinks this would work

[@javierpatag3609]

Your video makes so much sense. UG can be Knowledge (Blue) tempered by Wisdom (Green), by scholarly study (Blue) in harmony with the world around us (Green). On a dark world like Innistrad, UG sages who learn and live quietly (as opposed to all the ruckus and trouble of UB and UR mages) does seem to complete the circle of human thaumaturgy of that plane. It's only at first glance that it seems ill-fitting with the setting but, hey, we can take their going under everyone's radar as living up to what their color pair is about. I like it!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Thank you, as I said at first glance it seems out of place. But when you stop and think about it, I think it all works nicely. Good comment, thank you again

[@anthonycannet1305]

The missing third set to innistrad 3: midnight hunt, crimson vow, and arcane shipwreck

[@RedBobcatGames]

YES! I WANT IT!

[@noatrope]

UG makes me think (extremely superficially) shipwreck in the middle of the woods, and doesn't *that* feel like a surreal horror mystery premise a la Twin Peaks?

[@TimPoultney]

Super interesting, and I now wish they'd done more with this idea! The wild mystics of Innistrad. But now I want to try and do SOMETHING with the idea; I think the Simic Gandalf would fit the idea of an explorer wizard, but then we're in big spells territory... It's him or Radagast, but he's all about the birds and beasts of the plane.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Throw in some boat vehicles with crew and I'm sold haha

[@InterpolationStation]

Pirate Wizard Scholars actually feels like a pretty natural consequence of one plane whole heartedly embracing religion and death but forgetting about most other arcane arts.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Totally. I'd love to see it explored more

[@WyrmsOfWonder]

I think the main issue blue green on innistrad has is that it's very similar to the identity of blue green in eventide, where it gets to be extremely philosophical in its depth of understanding and veneration of the natural world, working through metaphor and mysticism, revelling in the power of old stories and archives and the like, and I'd honestly love to see it return in innistrad since it does fit, that sort of enigmatic arcane knowledge makes for an excellent way to tackle things, that sort of maddening knowledge, peering into the abyss of the earth or the sea and finding amazing power hidden beneath, leaning harder into that would be great.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, having spoken to a bunch of people in the comments I'm now starting think a lot of those cultists that worshipped Emrakul were probably those wizards I mentioned here

[@WyrmsOfWonder]

@@RedBobcatGames she is a well of untapped power after all, I'm sure if we do get focus on them it'll be as proper culty wizards and scholars fallen to her sway even at the distance the moon puts between them. it's some classic "dug too greedy and too deeply" type stuff maybe give us some mutant fish people or something, really hammer it home

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeeessss I love it, I can totally see that working

[@arpratu4160]

Theory: The dragons are an invasive species from a continent the seafaring wizards discovered.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, that's a sick idea. I love it!

[@dashkataey1740]

Interesting theory but I think you may be wrong. All the blue cards you talked about for wizards completely fall into what blue/red does and it doesn't tie much into green due to that. Instead, I think you missed the concept of what blue/green is. All 9 of the other color pairs are tangible, we know what they are. Blue/Green is the unknown and the fear that comes from it. Don't go out into the woods at night, you don't know what's out there. Be careful of water, you don't know what lurks in it. At it's core, it's a fear everyone has but hard to put a finger on. If you look at the cards that fall into those categories, it starts to make more sense. And it's also why Eldrazi was in blue/green cause they are an unknown.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I've seen a couple of people say this in the comments and you know what, I think you're on to something. For me, I'd have liked it if they have defined this undefinable aspect a bit more, maybe with cards that tie it all together somehow, or an enchantment literally called "The Unknown" or something. As it stands, I look at all the frogs and spiders and stuff and just sort of scratch my head

[@dashkataey1740]

@@RedBobcatGames Again, it's something hard to make tangible but the theme is there. There is a fear of certain things like frogs and spiders that don't exactly fall into any of the other tropes being explored by the other colors. This is more psychological horror in nature, phobias and fears as well as the things that will get you if you don't listen to your gut. Dreamroot Cascade's flavor text is basically what the pair is about.

[@dr.badguyreviews6785]

I think we can still marry the two concepts here. If green/blue is the unknown, then by extension, anything that's not a mindless creature is something that explores the unknown. Green/Blue humans are indeed Wizards, Pirates, and Wizard Pirates because they explore this unknown, whether it be across the land, the sea, or in the mind. They are those drawn to the unknown, thereby making the unknown ever more enticing.

[@drinkupnerds]

I think they should lean into the unknown horrors vibe by making the creature type of UG... Horrors. Ooze horrors, frog horrors, etc. They already have several, but they messed up by making the signpost uncommon a spider that makes insects because that stepped on the toes of BG identity in those sets. Also as someone that tried to draft UG several times in both those sets it was a rough archetype to play lol

[@ernestlam5632]

But where do you go to learn about the unknown? Why school of course.

[@CSDragon]

I'm not sure why Green is involved. Every card except two sorceries were blue, and wizards and pirates are both blue classes

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes, it's mostly blue. But there are some cards with green like Sheltering Word, Memorie's Journey, Alchemist's Refuge and Rain of Thorns that seem to imply they're part of some unseen G/U archetype. It's the rest of the green cards that are missing mostly

[@user-lp2ge4kg7u]

I thought you were gonna talk about how devils basically disappeared but I guess they’re technically still there

[@RedBobcatGames]

If these wizards are part of a secret underground sect or something, I can see Elves still being part of it

[@brandonbernard1570]

An additional bit of support, not necessarily in line with the wizard theme, but certainly in line with blue/green being associated with sailors and seafaring is Suspicious Stowaway/Seafaring Werewolf, the only blue/green werewolf in the game.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes. This is actually one of the cards that first got me thinking up this theory. But that was when these sets first released and I am so annoyed at myself for having forgotten to include it here

[@scorpiosystem8082]

"seafaring adventurer wizard pirates" is an insanely cool take on green/blue and now i feel so robbed

[@RedBobcatGames]

Haha, right?! Take Captain of the Mists, expand out from there. I'd love to see it!

[@neminem233]

I love youtube reccomended sometimes because a channel with less than 5k subscribers pumps out one of the best video's i';ve seen in quite some time

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ayyy, well that's a massive compliment. Thank you!

[@Licw-Luxus]

*hate *worst

[@epicdude8742]

Ultimately the problem with having wizards as a tribe theme on Innistrad is that the tribes of innistrad are all races: humans, werewolves, vampires, zombies, wizards don't really fit in there. Most if not all the wizards are humans, and rather than being part of some secret simic tribe they're made to fill in the blue portion of 5C humans. To be clear, I'd love if wotc appreciated this aspect of the plane more. Imagine how fun it would be if you had simic wizaeds that you could splash either black or red into, but i don't think it's all that realistic at this point. Personally I think they'd just be better off finding something new in Simic to find on innistrad, maybe by exploring a new continent on the plane. All the same, this was a fun thought exercise. Much appreciated!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well you're welcome! And thank you for the comment

[@brianlinden3042]

You spent so long setting up the reveal for what you thought the archetype should be, that I thought for sure it was going to be "eggs."

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ha! I might have to redo this entire video

[@postwarcarp7309]

Now I'm gonna head canon the missing blue green creatures as once being the now extinct elves on the plane

[@Case2_0]

Maybe they were the ones who created the symbols humans now use but barely scratch the surface of.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh this fun, I like this

[@noatrope]

...I just wrote a whole thesis in a different post about what I imagined about the elves! Short version: Going extinct sounds incredibly difficult on a plane where coming back to life is easy, and I imagine the last remnants of the elves being mindless illusions that somehow use runic magic instinctively, reminiscent of alien abductions and fairy rings and kodama, still guarding their barrow-tombs in the Ulvenwald where they so permanently obliterated their spirits as to make their corpses resurrection-proof.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@noatrope That sounds sick as hell

[@marcocamaiti212]

my idea, following old universal movie monsters, was that the lost creature type could have been the creature from the black lagoon. UG seems to fit pretty well

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh that's a good shout. I'm surprised actually because I don't think we've seen any references to the Creature from the Black Lagoon in any of those sets. Weird, seems like an obvvious pick

[@marcocamaiti212]

The only one I can find is whatever thing is represented on Artful Dodge. Some type of amphibian monstrosity

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ohh yeah. I always thought that was like a weird zombie, but looking at it you're right. Look at the eyes and weird gill frill things

[@nicks4802]

2:21 well, im NEVER inspired by anything with blue on it, So you’re not alone.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean to be honest that Captain of the Mists was basically the whole reason for this video haha

[@sasorispupet]

I think wizards would be a good bet. I think every plane has wizards, but it’s important to realize it may not be as developed in certain planes (such as planes where wizards are probably thwarted quite regularly due to werewolves, vampires, and hordes of zombies.)

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, exactly. In fact that could be a good reason why they've turned to the sea

[@michaellouis9120]

One of the most famous and powerful cards from INNISTRAD is a mono blue insect…

[@RedBobcatGames]

Are you saying Delver is a pirate? I would be totally on board with that

[@zanis_summers8284]

Innistrad was SCREAMING for people to build Sultai Graveyard, but it was ruined by the sets surrounding it.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I can see that. It's a shame too. I feel like Innsmouth style Fish Men are the most obvious picks for the colour pair way back in the day

[@CharlesGouraudgaming]

Don't forget the docent of perfection, one wizard who went too far, and turned his students into insects as well.

[@RedBobcatGames]

OHHH yeah that's a good one! That's a REALLY good one. I totally missed that, and Insect Token Creatures are green too! Awww man, the videos already out now!

[@Nyundaa]

Its such a forgotten thing about innistrad that the DnD document for Innistrad doesn't even mention these wizards but it mentions all the others "Wizards are often Avacynian archmages, but can also take up more sinister vocations-ghoul-callers, skaberen, necro-alchemists, mad scientists, and cultists."

[@RedBobcatGames]

I guess at a stretch they could come under the "cultists" umbrella? But I feel like we're doing a lot of leg work there

[@gusty7153]

blue and green usually has a lot of nature, i too would think of alchemist, druids, and classical wizards all being blue/green

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah exactly, I think it works!

[@octagon8769]

The idea of more traditional wizards in gothic horror actually seems narratively cohesive when you imagine something like a younger person stumbling across an ancient family book in the attic and studying magic or getting jumped in the woods by monsters and being saved by a reclusive man who lives outside of town. There's also the angle of Sypha and the speakers from castlevania. Also, with how twisted and strange the leylines are on innistrad, wizards who have to train each other or do adventuring/exploring to find and study the leylines so they can actually do powerful magic seem like a cool idea to me.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I hope we actually see it explored as a concept if we ever go back to the plane

[@RronKarahoda]

I loved this so so much! I really appreciate your perspective and how you tied flavor to color to lore and back again. I wonder what other mysteries like this are out there!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Give me time, I'm sure I'll cook something else up

[@fidly4]

You have good evidence that there are wizards on Innistrad and that deserves to be explored more. But the evidence that they're simic is pretty poor. What you showed was almost entirely blue with hardly any green wizardry.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true. I guess the evidence comes from a few cards like that Alchemist's refuge and the odd green spell like rain of thorns and sheltering word. But it's not much admittedly

[@Crushanator1]

a group of sea faring divination wizards plumbing the deepest depths and the artic ice for Eldritch Horrors feels like it could be very fitting for both a relatively low magic horror plane and Magic lore as a whole. youve got your Cthulhus and Marit Lages right there

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I'd love to see it. Plus, do we know what plane Marit Lage is from canonically? Could it actually be Innistrad?

[@vendriksondoesthings7911]

I think a fun fit for innistrad for blue green would be an archetype surrounding Dr. Jeckl and Mr. Hyde as a link to simics normal advancement and a more "primitive" and not religious way for humans to fight the unnatural beasts of Innistrad

[@RedBobcatGames]

We actually already had one in Civilized Scholar, but it was blue red. Which I was always okay with. Made sense Hyde would be a rage monster. But you're right, there's room to explore the trope in blue green too and perhaps more interestingly done aswell

[@kylepearce-obrien1021]

Interesting! I've been running Innistrad as a D&D campaign for a few years now and you're right, something is missing. I usually run it as "arcane magic is forbidden, and those who practice it are hunted by the Inquisition." These archmages almost feel like Rogue Traders from *Warhammer 40K* - powerful and connected enough to flaunt the rules everyone else must follow. Thanks for this! This is really helpful for my game!

[@RedBobcatGames]

No worries. Check out the card Chant of the Skifsang if you're looking for inspiration too. That also seems to imply the existence of seafaring wizards

[@solarupdraft]

My uneducated guess was the fish-men: salamanders

[@RedBobcatGames]

Like creatures from the Black Lagoon. I can see that

[@t.z2359]

(Trying not to spoil the video here)I think having this faction could tie a few loos ends in Innistrad flavor wise. We don't have a faction that embodies the phycological horror, or an eldric abomination sides of the plane. Perhaps this faction could embody a Lovcraftian side of the plane, folks living on the edge of sanity dealing with forces that defy comprehension.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeesss, I love it. Some real lovecraftian sea monster horror themes. Great stuff

[@sautee7598]

thank for this lovely breakdown-first video I ever saw of yours will definitely check out the others

[@RedBobcatGames]

Why thank you very much. Got a slightly more mean spirited one dropping today about how much I dislike Textless cards. But next week is a quiz!

[@JaxonRabbit]

I was thinking it's obviously Cosmic Horror for the first 5 mins but the vid is very persuasive, like we've heard how they workshopped Innistrad and just wrote spooky things in a brainstorm and theres no way Eldritch Horror didn't come up and when they went back they certainly explored that theme. They probably sidelined it a bit because that was a LONG time ago and they were admittedly cashing in on Twilight, The Walking Dead etc. prime zombie/vampire/werewolf media age of OG Innistrad. When that zeitgeist had passed, and return to Innistrad the Eldritch(read: Eldrazi) Horror was definitely more leaned into straight up being the narrative arc of the new Gatewatch and Ugin and everything. Both makes sense, because we never got an answer, we get to chose one, and choose your own ending Horror, that's a genre too.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Very true, and I think you're right about how the timeline of events lines up as well. All interesting thoughts

[@stilts121]

This is one of the best and consistent "What If" type videos for MTG I've seen in a long, long time!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh, well thank you very much!

[@Rex-ik9hf]

I think you have a great point, whether the mages are linked to a great school, secret orders, or even just aristocratic houses, they're definitely present and powerful. The issue is, with everything that's happened, including the apocalypse, wizards haven't printed a single legend or notable group, which doesn't make much sense, but it feels like they're unlikely to change at this point.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I think if we do go back to Innistrad we'd be more likely to see like a pirate fish man / creature from the black lagoon type than an actual wizard. But that could still work though

[@Phe0nix1986]

This is awesome. Excellent idea! Makes me want to build a cube to explore it. Your description of the archetypes at the start in sublime.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh why thank you very much. Glad you enjoyed, and thank you again for such a nice comment

[@technodragon990]

My first thought was wizards turning themselves into creatures to explain the weird creatures, but I love your idea too

[@RedBobcatGames]

I mean, your idea still works. Would explain the shapeshifters and cards like Delver of Secrets

[@missmoo5621]

Holy cow, just came across your channel and I am so happy to see this kind of in-depth look into Innistrad. It is my fav plane by far and I have an Innistrad Cube (with every card that depicts Innistrad being eligible for it) and I just love everything about Innistrad ngl. This theory definitely holds some water.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh well welcome, and thank you very much. I also love Innistrad. I really have to fight the urge to not make videos about it back to back haha

[@leo2791]

"thats a hell of a mystery no one thought was a mystery and didnt even really need solving but damn if it didnt just get solved so nice work" -Dave Strider

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ha, thank you!

[@WerewolfEnjoyer]

I'm down for wizard pirates. Hell, it has legs even outside Innistrad. Wizards trading their towers for ships ever crossing the seas, searching for arcane mysteries, assembling pirate crews of oddballs, staying one step ahead of witchunter ships of the line. It's good stuff.

[@RedBobcatGames]

If Innistrad won't do it, maybe we'll see what's on Arcavios other than the Stirxhaven school some day?

[@RealTal.]

The only issue is that nobody wants to see a new inistrad set after the disaster that was crimson vow and midnight hunt, so this probably wont get explored.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I'm hoping that the upcoming Innistrad Remastered does well enough to reignite some passion for the plane

[@triggerman7]

Love this idea. The idea of combining a wizard school with a pirate crew (as well as a secret society or esoteric order for some gothic horror colour) works really well.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Thank you very much

[@232Skull]

I saw a post talking about this today, saying the now extinct elves of innistrad used to take up this archetype, a more arcane version of the simic, studying nature and developing spells.

[@RedBobcatGames]

You did? Where? Is this theory picking up traction? I'd love to hear what people from WotC think about it

[@thomasstone418]

You know, normally I get information from these sorts of videos that I already pretty much realized.. kudos, this was an original and well presented take. I now really want to see more of the pirate wizards of innistrad.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well thank you very much

[@pokedude583]

* checks scryfall * How do we only have 5 pirate wizards? A pirate wizard faction would be based as hell

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right?! Tell me about it!

[@TheBoatis]

"Witch" probably carries a Rakdos connotation, but that's what made me notice the lean toward flying, animation, frogs, and fog. The educational institution as mentors or folklore doesn't make it less blue.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Fair point

[@snowboundwhale6860]

UG being wizards that explore, do piracy, and potentially also the bizarre things they discover feels like a good fit. It's also cool for Blue Humans to have the exploration and learning angle covered like this given how core that is to Blue's identity, which is probably where the tonal clash comes from. Hard to preserve the horror of the unknown when you're actively and enthusiastically learning about those things, it creates good setup for horrific discoveries and eldritch horror but gothic horror might not appreciate it so much given the air of hope it carries. Much of Innistrad has a very "landlocked" feel and most of what we see on the seafaring front is coastal, so setting up the UG wizards as also sailors does a lot for pushing that "pushing the boundaries of human knowledge and exploring the unknown" feel.

[@RedBobcatGames]

And would give us a chance to see more of the sea creatures we get occasionally, like Thing in the Ice

[@alvisrouge8690]

That color combination really had the more diverse themes and mechanics across the 7 sets.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, it was all over the place. I liked a lot of the cards, but I think I'd also liked to have seen so more direction

[@riverofmolecules]

Pre-Shadows and how it pivoted Innistrad to cosmic horror fully, an old pitch I had was introducing Moonfolk (distinct from Kamigawa's soratami) as inhuman abductors, blending faefolk stories with alien abductions and tying them to the weird moon. A representation of the fear of the alien. Which I think would fit in the green-blue space.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh that's cool. There's that card from Midnight Hunt which shows a baby being swapped with a changling in the crib that would suit this sort of vibe very well

[@geoffnaggie961]

I think U/G could be a cool Horror tribal (kindred?) theme with a transform mechanic like werewolves so green could support transform more generally in draft.

[@RedBobcatGames]

That would work with all the Shapeshifters on the plane, certainly

[@geoffnaggie961]

@@RedBobcatGames what I like most about your idea is how it brings the idea of Humans appearing in all colors full circle. Great stuff.

[@RedBobcatGames]

@@geoffnaggie961 Thank you!

[@paulgaither]

Regarding Nephalia: I am pretty sure that Naphalia is the Blue Black location of the plane. The art on Nephalia Academy is where "Rooftop Storm" takes place with Stitcher Geralf. We also have Nephalia Drownyard. We do have flavor text of Hadaken, alchemist of Nephalia on the card Thunderbolt which says, “My next aerial design will use less metal.” there is also a U/R producing land called Stormcarved Coast which says, "Frequent, violent storms shape the Nephalia coastline, sculpting cliffs and caves where monsters often lurk." If I had to bet, the Nephalia Academy is mostly where Ghoulcallers and alchemists learn. Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia is quotd many times nd evnetually got his own card. Heartless Summoning quotes another ghoulcaller of Nephalia, Enslow. The card Equestrian Skill states, "From the jagged peaks of Stensia, to the tangled woods of Kessig, to the bogs of Nephalia, the Gavony Riders prepare for all terrain." The bogs of Nephalia. Geistcatcher's Rig says, "The rigs were outlawed except in Nephalia, where malign spirits are as plentiful as crazed inventors." So, again, I feel that - with Soul Sperator as an example - we probably have alchemists, Ghoulcallers, and Geistcatchers [Ghostbusters] at Nephalia - NOT a Wizard school.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh sure, but then like I say the card for Nephalia Academy isn't the right colours anyway. It was more of a passing though, which I think you've just proven to be incorrect

[@Caseyuptobat]

You're telling me that in addition to Vampires, Werewolves, and Gheists, they have Mages on this plane? Sounds like a world of darkness to me.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh hell yeah! I haven't played that in a long time, but I remember being a Werespider and loving it

[@madddawgg2]

This is a great video, but wizards and magic are part of every plane in some way. And blue is the color for wizards. So while yes, it is totally fun to ask and learn about Innistrads wizards, it does not mean they are a secret faction.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, perhaps I should have called them "Occultists" or "Alchemists" or something. Because of course there are wizards, I mean more that there are a specific type of magic user that you wouldn't normally think of when you picture the plane, you know?

[@CTimmerman]

Nephalia is a coast on Innistrad where they like to mill and recur or reanimate cards from (underwater) graves, and smuggle things.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, probably an acedemy for necromancers and stitchers then I'd imagine

[@OdenGender]

This is a question I’ve sought to answer before and it’s nice to see such a spotlight cast on it! I wish they’d kept up the green blue clue theme that was somewhat present in shadows, it’d mesh so well with the idea of wizards and researchers, hoping to advance Innistrad beyond the backwater dark ages setting, setting out into the seas and forests to discover and catalogue the old magic, rather than being consumed by it like the bg or rg archetypes

[@RedBobcatGames]

See, I'm totally on board. But I'd also love to see horror from other cultures explored too. I'm envisioning a new set, still on Innistrad but using the enemy colour pairs to do 5 brand new archetypes, one of which is the pirate wizards, and the rest are things like evil Djinn or Rakshasa or something?

[@diabeticmonkey]

The most important lesson in this video is that Lost in the Woods is a crazy good card that no one builds around.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Not no one! I LOVE that card. I've played many a commander game where that was my key piece

[@S0L1nv1ctus]

It was once said there were elves living on innistrad but they went extinct

[@RedBobcatGames]

I'd heard that, but wasn't sure if it was meant to be true or if it were just one of the designers having a laugh. Interesting thought though

[@AnonymousHuman-ku5wh]

Innistrad was originally a tribal set designed around the five allied pairs. WU spirits, UB zombies, BR vampires, RG werewolves, and GW humans. The enemy pairs have been fleshed out since, but often remain tenuous, such as with UG. Maro has talked quite a bit about the design of original innistrad, and has not mentioned a scrapped simic wizards archetype.

[@RedBobcatGames]

That's a shame, because the evidence is there. Which means they've accidentally made all this world building in the background that sort of slots together unintentionally. I'd still like to see it happen though

[@MagusFlorren]

Well… I’m sold!! 🎉 There’s some real wizard shit happening on Innistrad

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yes! If enough people want it, maybe they'll actually make it happen if we ever go back to the plane?

[@livanbard]

I see it know all the ug cards are traditional wizards experiments. Also sailing its a major theme in some classic victorian horror stories.

[@RedBobcatGames]

There's a bucnh of sea monsters depicted on Innistrad. Someone has to deal with them otherwise they'd overrun the place!

[@dotmp3883]

i thought the theme was going to be mystery, with all the strange creatures and weird spells in the colors but this makes more sense and also is much more thematically satisfactory. Also secret pirate wizards hiding from us as players is sick

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I love it! Plus it opens up the idea of what's beyond the shores of Innistrad! Horrors from across the sea!

[@sev1120]

Considering how Eldritch Moon drew from Lovecraft, I honestly think that Wizards would do great with more representation on Innistead. Green/Blue wizards who study how the magics of the world impact it, and then bend it to their will. It fits with Green/Blue. You have the power of nature, being dominated and controlled to suit your own ends. And imaging if next time we went to Innistrad, there's a conflict between druids, werewolves, vampires, and pirate wizards all seeking control of some magical artifact for their own goals.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I love it, take it and put it out to sea. Sea Druids, Buccaneer Werewolves, Privateer Vampires and Pirate Wizards? Yes!

[@Eden_Arcane]

Fantastic theory about my favourite plane- what a treat. Also I think it is notable too that many of the cards shown were either At The Shore or Literally Manipulating Water, and I feel that just as many things on Innistrad have a special relationship to the moon, it's likely Innistrad Wizards have a special relationship with the tide and waves- which is traditionally a Blue-Green concept in MtG. Which would also make sense of their magic weakening in the events of Midnight hunt- not strictly because Avacyn is missing, but because Eldritch Moon left the moon... well, Eldritch.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Exactly! I've had the odd comment telling me the themes don't fit for the colours, but I just don't see it. I think it works!

[@Bumbillion]

Wizard explorers is TOTALLY in theme with gothic horror! Where did Viktor Frankenstein go immediately after everything went to hell in a hand-basket? On an EXPEDITION TO THE ARCTIC. Every single H.P. Lovecraft protagonist who isn't some freak shut-in was an EXPLORER or a freak shut-in forced to become an explorer. The entire american pulp horror tradition is based on explorer academics who find some ancient curse in a temple, or an alien frozen in the arctic, or a hitherto unknown creature in the Amazon. I NEED IT NOW!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Preach! Maybe if we make enough noise they'll actually print it?

[@otterfire4712]

Something to add about pirate wizards and gothic horror is the terror of the unknown depths. Many monsters and nightmares can lurk just beneath the surface of the water. Perhaps some of their studies and adventures could have some learning or attempting to harness that which lurks below. A Moby Dick with magic and extra horror would be neat to see on the plane

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, we already see a bunch of sea monsters on the plane (and people that worship them) so I think this totally tracks

[@SenorTallon]

This is truly excellent ludo-archeology. Great work!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Ludo-archeology! What a great term, I love it!

[@rustlr]

Self-mill has been an important part of green on Innistrad since the very first Innistrad set

[@RedBobcatGames]

Sure, but like I say I feel it's more dominant in other colours. And I'm not sure what green has for its own

[@rustlr]

@@RedBobcatGames I can answer that for you. Green has caring about the number of creature cards in your graveyard. That is the payoff for effectively carrying out self-milling in green.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, I guess. But then I'd again say the same with U/B and reanimating Zombies

[@rustlr]

@@RedBobcatGames I'm not sure what there is to guess about here, it was a mechanic present on many mono-G cards during both the original Innistrad and its expansion. I agree that mill/self-mill were present and notable in both blue and black, but it's silly to say it was not notably present in green as well. Mulch and Tracker's Instincts are better representations of mill as a mechanical archetype on Innistrad than your examples of Gisa and Geralf or Ludevic, Necrogenius.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Yeah, of course. I'm not saying it wasn't present. I'm just saying it's not the first colour that comes to mind when I think of the mechanic. I don't think Green is a colour that comes to mind when I think of any mechanic from the plane, as everything it can do is done thematically stronger in other colours

[@Hatttetttt]

Does sound right. But I do also just enjoy the "monsters" that are in UG, like Grolnok and Slogurk. Monsters that don't do things with the dead like the ones in BG. Also clues had a lot of synergy in UG, though only on our second visit.

[@RedBobcatGames]

See I think these can go hand in hand though, if the alchemists that are referenced are studying, or working with those strange eldritch creatures. Same can go for all the sea monsters we see too

[@lucatdcat8720]

Now you have me thinking about how fun it would be to explore the seas of Innistrad in a set. There could be a spin on The Bermuda Triangle. The creatures of the deep that Runo Stormkirk works with could have a spotlight. Mother. Loving. Cthulhu. Why hasn't this been done before?

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? And there's already a few giant sea monsters on the plane. Mid had that multi-armed lobster thing. Creature from the Ice is a classic. I think you're right and it would be interesting to explore

[@user-xr7fw4ks2n]

There is a theory that Innistrad was originally planned to have merfolk. If we assume WoTC decided to cut merfolk partway through the design of OG Innistrad, and that merfolk would've been UG, it makes a fair amount of sense why Innistrad's UG faction(s) are so underdeveloped.

[@RedBobcatGames]

That does track, and a lack of "Creature from the Black Lagoon" or "Innsmouth Fish Men" types on the plane has always been odd to me

[@Graatand]

Tbh, I don’t think you quite managed to prove the connection between this wizard culture on Innistrad and the Green-Blue color pair. Specifically the green half of the pair. It feels like you might as well just argue that wizards are just a general theme in Blue (on Innistrad as on other planes). It feels like a stretch to try to tie Green into it.

[@RedBobcatGames]

The connections are thin, but they are there. Alchemist's refuge, Sheltering Word and Rain of Thorns all lean that way. Like I say, it's not much, but if you look you can find it

[@idlerwheel]

As a Pirate Wizard trapped in a plane of unspeakable horrors, I fully back this as the archetype when they return...maybe they flee Innestrad via the Omenpaths to loot other realities!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Hell, I'd settle for just seeing other continents on the plane!

[@benjaminehren7965]

This is amazingly thorough and almost makes me want to give up on blue green innistrad merfolk that look like the creature from the black lagoon. Almost.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Hey, who says those merfolk aren't pirate wizards? Put those ideas together my friend!

[@partyballoonsnorwich2122]

Thank you for your video! Love it! Nearly 22,000 views and counting! Great job!

[@RedBobcatGames]

Thanks

[@khananiel-joshuashimunov4561]

Green-Blue is quintessential wizard to me. My favorite deck I have is Blue-Green Wizards focusing around drawing. Admittedly, I'm a bit biased as I started collecting around Strixhaven.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well hey, who's to say a couple of those attending Strixhaven didn't start off in Innistrad?

[@khananiel-joshuashimunov4561]

@@RedBobcatGames I don't know about Strixhaven, but that mythic green werewolf lady from Midnight Hunt is a surprisingly important part of the deck.

[@RedBobcatGames]

I suspect you're talking about Arlinn, and she's a big part of the story too. I really like her character

[@khananiel-joshuashimunov4561]

@@RedBobcatGames I looked for her, and she is actually named Avabruk Caretaker. In hindsight, it was a bit silly of me to specify green werewolf in a deck where thats a whole faction. The main win condition was either Triskadecaphile or win with the amount of advantage because of ramp and draw. She was there to help prolong the game if I needed her, but actually finding the card irl was an ordeal because apparently I took her out and put her in a box (mentally) labelled, "reconsider in case of regret". I totally forgot that box existed.

[@RedBobcatGames]

Well! I'm glad I helped you remember it(?). Also, I love that card. I love all the werewolves tbh

[@ThePlayer4our]

Its something ive never really thought of, but is undeniably there. Im 100% sold

[@RedBobcatGames]

Right? I hope if we ever go back to the plane we see it explored a bit more

[@tiptapdrats8454]

Ironically, I think the lack of overt theming probably helps these Wizards the most, as it seems they are - in all aspects - something of a secret society

[@RedBobcatGames]

Oh yeah, totally. I just sort of wish they weren't so hidden on the cards so I could build around them, you know?