Is MAGICK REAL? Does Magic Exist? with Dr Jack Hunter

[@drangelapuca]

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[@JDG602]

I really appreciate you scholars and scientists taking these fields seriously and bringing these topics to people's attention who otherwise would just dismiss these topics without further inquiry or study. It is fascinating to actually see progress in these fields for magick is a huge part of my life. Appreciate your channel and your hard work. Thank you!

[@joekennedy5110]

This was very interesting, i like the idea that archeologists and other scientific professions having mystical or paranormal experiences ...and not telling anyone!

[@drangelapuca]

yes, Joe. That's quite common, I think.

[@joekennedy5110]

@@drangelapuca I think the fear is going a bit for those types of people so more sharing of the experiences... hopefully

[@skohtihamilton9443]

I like this guy. He's on the ball and going for the goal. Great video. Thanks Dr. Pucca

[@drangelapuca]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@HIMfan0805]

That was a really really good interview, thank you for posting. How does one go about bringing para-studies into a cross discipline approach like that? I wouldnt even know how to begin bringing up parapsychology work into any other field of study without getting laughed out of the room, even though it can clearly be shown to be relevant. edit: also, tell Jack to thank you for the book sales you just made for him by bringing him onto your channel :)

[@drangelapuca]

Hi JD, thanks for your comment! I don't personally incorporate PSI or the paranormal in my research so it might be better to contact Jack and get a proper answer from a subject specialist! Very glad to hear you liked the interview and bought his book. :-)

[@Discarnates]

Hi, I think it just has to be treated as another possible factor or variable in field research. Especially when we are dealing with the magic-religious. If these phenomena are real then they need to be taken into account in theory construction.

[@Discarnates]

Another thing I would like to add - there is a strong academic lineage of interest in parapsychology going right back to the roots of most of the hard and social sciences (see for example Andreas Sommer's Forbidden Histories work). That's one good way of legitimating an interest in parapsychology in other disciplines. Also, in my article 'Between Realness and Unrealness,' I introduce my idea of 'ontological flooding' as a framework for entertaining multiple ontological possibilities simultaneously, sort of like an inversion of the standard 'ontological bracketing' approach.

[@rachelking2303]

Brilliant discussion..even a few years ago still relevant!

[@Sukerkin]

A splendid and intriguing conversation indeed. So good to see this area getting some attention. Thank you kindly for the focus of your interest upon the mystical and magical and for putting this channel out here for us to find :).

[@Sukerkin]

Oh and one observation, not intended as an abrasive criticism, the audio is out of sync with the video. If you have a way to correct that then that will improve the ‘presentation’. :)

[@drangelapuca]

@@Sukerkin Thanks for the enthusiastic comment! Unfortunately, there's no way to fix the out-of-sync, sorry for that. It must've been an issue with the internet connection during the Skype call but the interview was too interesting to go to waste.

[@Sukerkin]

Angela's Symposium Not to worry, it was just an observation and doesn’t truly detract from the fascinating subject matter.

[@pahbody5336]

Imma keep a little log here for my comprehension 1. Jack says magic exists and as far as I understand he means it in a way of a complex system of interactions between sociological phenomenons and nature stuff, though that still lacks a definition of what a magic is, what does it mean to say that it does, and where can one go to see one, but I’ll keep watching 2. Oh he’s gonna define it - something about parapsychology 3. Yeah idk I don’t trust him, I think he’s pulling some slight of hand here probably with all the supposed evidence, but I do like his assertion that there are some good lenses to look at magic through which like anthropology and theology 4. Hehehehheehehehehhe ectoplasm funny 5. He’s winning my trust by allowing for a possibility that the mask thing may be a hallucination, cuz the stuff he was saying before was more like “you wouldn’t understand - this is beyond you” bullshit 6. Bracketing? Seems like both he and me don’t like the vibe, but for different reasons 7. Materialism is something I’m a fan of, honestly, I don’t get why would one need to move away from it 8. “Deep rooted desire to see themself as hard sciences” so is this just biases in his view? Like the dudes there just want to be prestigious? 9. Now, is he saying that we can’t empirically detect emotions or is he saying that the experience of emotions is non-empirical and yet valuable? Because the first one just sounds like I am interpreting him uncharitably and I don’t want to do that 10. As much as I’m up for doing science under LSD, would we really find out anything if we were to try to catalogue personal perceptions? 11. I’m still not sure I have his entire ass sized up, nor would I expect to after like 20 minutes of the interview but so far it’s pretty interesting, I like his approach of “come on don’t be shy let’s do some fucking magic” 12. It’s really cool that y’all consider those very niche things that could occur in your perception of these rituals, but it honestly just seems like you start out with the believe already there? Like that x-files slogan, you want to believe? 13. I definitely agree that we shouldn’t be skittish when it comes to approaching paranormal subjects but frankly not because of the possibility that we might be missing out on magical experiences but because that shapes societies in some very rigid and fashy ways 14. I still don’t think I get it, or agree You seem to place a lot of experience into the most subjective it can get, while I perceive importance outside of the self? Something along those lines All in all, interesting watch, but I neither was convinced with his pretty definitive “yes” about magic being real, nor did I truly understand what, aside from a fear of missing out, motivates him to say so I guess the green mask thing was kinda weird idk, but why shouldn’t those things be banal? Everything else is

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks for sharing

[@Discarnates]

Thanks for your comments. The truth is, I'm still trying to get my head around it all as well. Hope it stimulates some interesting thoughts.

[@AlexIncarnate911]

Just to let you know, it seems that magic doesn't exist, unfortunately. All they're talking about is make-belief spiritual blabber that is mainly designed to influence (or mess up) the psychology of individuals and to distort their objective perception of reality because reality is understandably barely livable without the many social systems that we construct as societies and individuals. This is simply a representation of the "when truth evades you, make up your own truth" mentality. Though I do understand their motives, I find this kind of underwhelming view on magic to be just lame. I want my magic to be tangible and powerful, to be like that in fantasy, where if you become powerful enough you can bend whole mountains with the pure strength of your willpower. Something that elevates you above this pathetic human existence as an insignificant lump of meat living in ignorance, weakness and, despite all the "blessings" of consciousness, destined for the oblivion of death and forgetfulness. So no, I don't need that kind of "psychic", flower-picking, lala magic. Our only hope is the dim light that the scientific method provides in the face of a dark, cold and uncaring void of a universe.

[@j_sr3608]

If I may add, criticising the limiations of scientific methodology does not compensate for lack of evidence for magic.

[@j_sr3608]

@@cristanpheldom7449 Poetry actually exists, magic doesn't. Angela know this, that's why she always answers "thanks for sharing" instead of correcting people or presenting her view on the matters raised. She is trying to hide behind academic jargon which is more dangerous than enlightening.

[@mtmk5]

In the United States, interest in the occult and magic is at an all time high. I wonder how much this correlates with the decline in main stream religions?

[@drangelapuca]

thanks for your comment. That's a very interesting question and would perhaps require a sociologist of religion to get a proper answer. Speaking based on my personal opinion, I think there might be a link. There's also more and more research on 'Non-religious people', sometimes referred to as 'nones', who deem themselves - in some cases - actually 'spiritual'' rather than atheists or agnostics.

[@Discarnates]

I think there is a correlation too. Check out some of the literature on disenchantment/secularisation/re-enchantment in the West.

[@pamelasindisiwemutasa9320]

It is?

[@jeffphisher3801]

Great video enjoyed his own personal experience within actual research

[@johnthered0]

I wonder how many Anthropologists are fledgling practioners now, due to a foray into the occult but have the sense not to publish . This interview is the best(I've seen) glimmer from formally /academically trained persons into a huge wider truth - it felt wonderfully awkward at the end there ,loved it. On one hand I cant wait for physics/academia/gnosis in general to catch up to each other and meld into the sages of old....yet on the other hand some mysteries are secret for a very Good reason and jealously guarded as such . New favourite episode

[@elizabethford7263]

Do you think you could ask "is magic real?" in the same way that mainstream religious studies can ask "does prayer work?"?

[@drangelapuca]

perhaps, with the due differences

[@Davemac1116]

Fascinating discussion.

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks!

[@livrowland171]

I think it's good if researchers can keep an open mind and observe without assuming that the beliefs of practicioners can't possibly actually be real

[@dragonofthewest9186]

Now this is a beautifully insightful video. Bless you.

[@drangelapuca]

Glad you enjoyed it! :-)

[@eancarana]

Parapsychology is a pseudoscience, specifically because psi phenomenon A. has no known hypothetical mechanism or explanation, B. cannot be demonstrated within a controlled study. Magic, on the other hand, works when relying on known principles of psychology, and fails predictably when relying on pseudoscientific claims and properties (energy, spirits & deities, collective unconscious, informational matricies, etc.). The study of magic as non-orthodox psychotherapy is fascinating and worth studying; this line of inquiry is demonstrably fruitless and only give cover to charletans, or interferes with people that are in pain and need psychotherapy but are taken advantage of by charletans. Full disclosure: I am a practicing and licensed (LPC) psychotherapist, and have an informed interest in all things magical, spiritual, and religious since the 70s.

[@drangelapuca]

Hi Edwin, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. Dr Hunter talks about para-anthropology not parapsychology. Also, the scientific methods you refer to are those employed by natural sciences. In social sciences, we adopt qualitative data analysis (beside the quantitative one) and post-structuralist approaches are increasingly implemented as well. There isn't just one way of conducting academic research and there isn't just one type of legitimate science.

[@eancarana]

@@drangelapuca Hey Angela, thank you for the reply. At the 4:05 mark Dr. Hunter says specifically he thinks of magic in terms of parapsychology / psi phenomena, and that there is "good experimental evidence for the existence of these kinds of phenomena....researched scientifically and rigorously since the end of the 19th century" I am well aware of this research, as well as the conclusions: there is no evidence for the claims of psi phenomena; this is why parapsychology is considered a pseudoscience. I would also argue that a post-structural deconstruction of magic as "psi phenomenon....and maybe spirits" shows the centuries of metaphysical context that have been attached to that word, and obscure the actual psychological effects that such practices have.

[@ascensionvaldes1412]

Thanks for your seriousness 👌

[@drangelapuca]

My pleasure

[@Davemac1116]

I think that intuition, dreams, or our own immediate phenomenological experience, isn’t necessarily amendable to the scientific method. By ‘scientific method’ I mean asking the question: What are the principles from which you deduce conclusions which yield empirically testable propositions ? The transcendent (I think) is perhaps beyond the scope and limits of such a method. But where we don’t know, we don’t know.

[@drangelapuca]

you are describing the method used by natural sciences but social sciences and humanities work differently

[@kha30s22]

@@drangelapuca Isn't theology, sociology linguistics, anthropology, psychology under social science. From what I have known they use statistical analysis. I am an engineer this is one of the some things I know about Social science and humanities.

[@elizabethford7263]

To develop a way of measuring phenomenon in a non- positivist way is a true paradigm shift. Has any progress been made on this???

[@drangelapuca]

yes definitely

[@epicmercury333]

Intriguing. I hope to see more investigation into the psi function and magic. Dr. Hunter might be onto something. I’m open to participating in a scientific study, if the proper protocols could be followed.

[@drangelapuca]

you'll be happy to know that I'll be releasing an interview to Jeff Mishlove of New Thinking Allowed by the end of the month.

[@epicmercury333]

Angela's Symposium Will this be a video on your channel here or somewhere else?

[@drangelapuca]

It will be 2 videos, both here and on New Thinking Allowed. 😊 I interviewed him and he interviewed me.

[@epicmercury333]

Angela's Symposium Awesome!

[@TrueToTheArts]

Interesting for sure.

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks for letting me know, Coda! 😊

[@luigidelprete5015]

very interesting

[@drangelapuca]

thanks

[@lucepagana8164]

interesting interview. Thank you

[@drangelapuca]

thanks

[@StephenMolloyGoogle]

Interesting interview, but I was a little disappointed that it spent so much time discussing the lack of acceptance in mainstream science. I was hoping for some in-depth commentary on magick itself, more in line with the title of the video. I understand that there is a very real frustration that mainstream academia does not take this seriously, but I don't feel that I know more about magick now than I did before watching. Sorry for the negative comment.

[@drangelapuca]

Hi Stephen, your politely argued criticism is welcome. Next time I'll try to keep it more focused on the main topic.

[@andreafrn3912]

great job!!

[@drangelapuca]

thanks!

[@eddykohlmann471]

I think they never got over Santa not being real

[@drangelapuca]

I know, right? :(

[@meidson12]

​@@drangelapucayou're just like me lol

[@luigidelprete5015]

Brilliant interview

[@drangelapuca]

thanks

[@efreeteater2270]

To me it seems that it would be very hard to scientifically prove ghosts, for example, as, assuming the idea that they are human-like or are the spirits of humans or animals, they would not necessarily behave in the same way each time, just like a living human. It seems that the overall scientific consensus is barking up the wrong tree, as Dr. Hunter mentioned.

[@drangelapuca]

it's a complex matter

[@DmitriyKushnirTV]

I made many people who did not believe in magic ... begin believe in magic just by spending some time with me. And it doesn't matter if you spell it "magic" or "magick" ... the real word is "magia" anyway ;)

[@drangelapuca]

Thank for sharing your experience

[@SallyImpossible]

You all really need to employ some healthy skepticism. It's too easy for charlatans to pull off hoaxes and take advantage of vulnerable people.

[@cxpz7584]

Why are Positivists so negative?

[@kam70111]

Interesting but you talk along the lines of Academia and not what is going on in "Evil, malevolent Magic". Extrasensory perception is, not that.

[@drangelapuca]

that's an ethical matter

[@rankemperor]

Just as the UN tell the governments of the world what to do, there must be a corresponding body that reins in academic institutions. Part of the UN 1947 de-education program was to forbid the teaching of the Trivium and rhetoric. Therefore, one must deliberately employ the methods of Trivium to stand a chance of understanding what on Earth is going on. Furthermore, the Smithsonian Institute systematically pilfer any and all anomalous artifacts from archaeological sites; giant bones, for example.

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks for sharing

[@veerymrappy]

magic(k) IS real, same as meditation, mysticism, parapsychology and all those things are. its sort of meditation used for personal gains, not fantasy magic obviously. it can gaze back at you for sure, but i dont know all those things like thelema, wicca and so on are mostly hedonism clothed in ritual garb for me sorry :P i met alot of ppl interested in it back in the day, when i was dabbling in goth and industrial counterculture (i still love the music and the thought behind them and this will never change :), i was sort of locked out of it, not even allowed to enter, as if something had prevented me, because i had used it realy wrong.... before? which actually made me aware how real it is. a lot of of really weird coincidences were happening in my life too, they couldnt be coincidences, believe me some of those things were really crappy, and really shouldnt be joked about, after dealing with some of the worst, i settled with a position of eternal agnostic, and secular heretic hehe :) its was the best thing i could make out of all those experiences, and just trying to focus on not being asshole to others, at least not deliberately, which is the only thing that truly matters. i get it all those things came as an alternative to traditional systems, which had made a lot of really awful things over the course of human history, but there is really no need to replace one flawed system with another, if i can say anything that's 100% sure about humanity, its that we arent capable of creating functional utopias :)

[@krispalermo8133]

" cough, cough, cough," -- You mean I wasted thirty years of my life studying and making a living off these academic fields of study when I could have been doing this instead ? Also I had to deal with envy and jealousy from adults 20 years older than me as a teenager cause they were ungifted or too lazy to put the effort into mastering a given skill/ craft. Who wants to put four years of effort into something just to do a few parlor tricks that you can't gain money & fame off of. Only to find out you have to put another ten years of train behind that to do " magik ."

[@drangelapuca]

Thanks for sharing

[@Khannea]

Angela dear, there's definitely magic in your constantly flirting.

[@ciprianom8394]

[@drangelapuca]

thank you

[@caprunzo]

[@drangelapuca]

🤗