Is Modern Gasoline Killing Your Classic Car's Engine?

There are many myths and misunderstandings when it comes to the fuels we use in our vintage rides. Here's the straight scoop on ethanol and lead, and the history of tetraethyl additives and what they do as well as how to spot the damage and which engines are prone to problems and which ones are just fine.
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[@daveself6386]

Tony, you missed one of the biggest advantage of unleaded fuel, reduced cylinder wear. I'm an aircraft mechanic and still deal with lead in the fuel. It's a long read and if you are a engine nerd, read the Army Corp of engineers study on fuel in WWII, it was found that adding lead was an easy way to reduce detonation in the large aircraft engines. They found that adding Ethyl Bromide would help scavenge the lead out of the cylinders with enough heat. They also found that Tetraethyl Lead accelerated the wear on the cylinders and rings. The benefits offset the wear on these engines due to the fact they were designed with a 4-500 hr service life. I often have heated debates in the aviation community over this, the engine in my airplane which is a Continental O300 has a 7 to 1 compression ratio and was designed for 80 octane unleaded not the 100LL at most airports. This often leads to the valve stems gumming up and alot of wear in the cylinders because the temperature of the combustion is not high enough on a low compression engine to allow the Ethyl Bromide to scavenge the lead out of the cylinder. I have been running non ethanol 93 octane mogas in my plane for the last decade, I have not had to replace a cylinder and my compression is perfect. Now aircraft engines have an aluminum head with steel valve seats so valve wear is not a problem compared to soft cast iron used on old car engines. Which brings me back to cylinder wear. The rings in an engine when I was a kid would be toast at about 70,000 miles, then unleaded fuel came out and now a Honda is just getting broken in a 100,000 miles. The cast iron in the block hasn't changed, if anything it's softer with less nickel in it and you could say the rings are thinner with less tension but either way the bore isn't as choked out as it was with leaded fuel. Most modern engines run aluminum heads with steel valve seat these days so the valve wear is long gone too. I don't care for the subsidized ethenol being put into the fuel, at 10 percent there really is no value and only harm. Once you get to E85 then you can make some serious power. Another downside to 10 percent is about 10 percent less fuel mileage as alcohol need to run at almost twice the amount of fuel to air as gasoline. But I would never want to go back to leaded fuel, that was a cheap easy way to make crap gas available during wartime good enough to not melt the pistons of high performance engines found in the late war aircraft

[@michaelguzzi1]

Got the publication number or a link for that study?

[@johnmckenna8989]

...As a vintage aircraft and vehicle owner I found this very interesting.....I would buy my gas at the local airstrip and fill my 1959 Triumph TR3A with 80/87.....I no longer bother doing this as I no longer have an aircraft.....But I'm still driving the car 52 years later , and it's in better running condition than I am, for sure.....( I do have to 'service' the fuel pump more often )

[@will7its]

@@darwinfoster7420 Alcohol reduces gas mileage because it takes more to produce the same hp. Very simple....

[@will7its]

Not really. Its fuel injection because it doesn't wash the oil off the cylinder walls and fill your crankcase with gasoline on rich starts. Also oils have dramatically improved engine life along with roller cams.

[@kenleppek]

@@darwinfoster7420 put E85 in a newer vehicle that isn't a flex fuel car and you'll have shitty mileage and a MIL with a system too lean trouble code. Ethenol does not produce as much energy as gasoline when burned. This is why flex fuel vehicles have a sensor to determine the ethenol content of gas and adjust the fuel ratio accordingly. This is also why you get worse fuel economy with E85 in any fuel injected vehicle and why you have to jet up a carburator to run it properly.

[@tedesco455]

On the small engines like in lawn mowers. Always close the petcock for the fuel system while it is running and run all of the gas out. It really helps a lot of things.

[@kellismith4329]

Absolutely ! I even add a bit of 2 stroke oil before the tank runs out so the cylinder gets an oily coating for storage

[@jamesjustin5095]

@@mercoid My dad did that from late 60's on up I remember!

[@will7its]

I tell people to run them dry and they say well I can put stabilizer in it and thats even better, well no its not. Run dry you dont have the float pushing against the seat for months. But they still want to use stabil, oh well....

[@will7its]

@@kellismith4329 Yes and a little 2 stroke is good in the spring to clear out gum and varnish too........

[@glenncrockett4451]

Yeah but that doesn't always work good, 1 with bowl style Carbs there is always a little fuel left behind and 2 when you do that any dirt that was sitting in the bowl now gets stuck in the jets, sometimes they start up and work the first time but start running bad & leaking fuel the second time they use them. Storage plays a big part of it too and carbs with Diaphragms seem to work for me running them dry but I used to get in tons where that didn't work lol.

[@eddiehuff7366]

Professor Tony again :). Using a combination of science, politics, history, and infrastructure to explain a mechanical question. I still think you need to wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches when you have these kinds of videos. Love it!

[@N2YTA]

This is the kind of video that makes UTG unique. I love it too . . . .

[@Flussig1]

And smoke a pipe.

[@raiderjohnthemadbomber8666]

@@Flussig1 my thought exactly!

[@jeffreyrubish347]

Masonic robe.

[@kenleppek]

He likes to tell the whole story that's for sure. Here's what's going on but more importantly here's why. And yes he needs the jacket and maybe some cheater glasses.

[@JDWorkshop-wn9tt]

Lead substitute “Cliff Notes”: Take a straight edge across your valve springs. If they’re relatively level ok to use. If not, “The cow is out of the barn”. Don’t bother buying lead substitute in that case. I love it Uncle Tony!

[@dnmtorp]

Uncle Tony you just explained why as a kid I used to have to replace push rods on my 6 cylinder AMC , It used to bend one every second week or so. I had it down to about 15 minutes to pull the old one out and replace with a straight one. I used to get straight ones from the junkyards and kept a supply in the glove box.

[@MotoDeSoto]

Fun fact, the fuel additive tetraethyllead was distributed by the Ethyl Corporation of Richmond, Virginia. That’s how premium gasoline came to be called “Ethyl.” 😎

[@AMCguy]

Project farm has a great vid on the effects of ethonol on carbs And other fuel parts. A really good watch.

[@SilverTreasures]

Post the link.

[@twiz8789]

Tarrel fixes all has a year long fuel tests with multiple additives for ethanol. Ill never use an additive again

[@vintage76vipergreenBeetle]

@@SilverTreasures Check out project farm channel.

[@SilverTreasures]

@@vintage76vipergreenBeetle I’ve followed him for years. I was just saying post the video so other people can access the content easier

[@rcnelson]

Everyone has a story about ethanol. Mine is that I unknowingly ran my old van on 10% gasohol for about a year. The gas station I used didn't post its pumps. Result? No engine damage as far as I could tell, but the damned alcohol "scoured" the bottom of the gas tank, allowing years of crud to be sucked into the gas tube which would then kill the engine. After a few minutes it would start again since the crud fell down when the suction stopped. Two trips to the shop, no one could figure out what the problem was. Then I accidentally discovered the ethanol in the gas, dropped the tank and had it professionally cleaned, and now the van runs like a top. That same gas destroyed the fuel line on my snowblower, filling the float bowl with bits of line. Great fun to have in the middle of winter in the not so great North. My take on ethanol: it's crap. Hard on fuel systems not specifically designed for it, takes virtually as much energy to make as we get out of it, and actually causes more pollution to make than does gasoline.

[@MDAdams72668]

It takes MORE energy than we get by a long shot

[@kramnull8962]

How long has it been since you got gas with water in it. Used to be common problem. Word of mouth, used to carry the information about which nearby gas station was pumping gas with water in it. The Ethanol keeps most water broken up.

[@darrellhisey5489]

Good information for anyone getting into these older cars. I drive a 1968 Plymouth Satellite, and when I got the car the valve seats were actually sunk in so far and with so much guide wear that the shop I took it to didn't believe me that I'd been driving it for a few months. Had as you described, a very prominent miss that would get worse with higher RPMs. Drove ok in town, but couldn't do the highways. Had hardened seats installed, and the 318 has ran like a sewing machine since

[@johnmcdonald1293]

You're spot on Tony once again in Australia we didn't put harden the seats in the heads that's why you especially notice it with LPG . Great work thanks .

[@jamesblair9614]

Fuel pump diaphragms seem to have a shorter life than they did in the past. Ethanol gets all the blame for everything, but other components in the gasoline blend have had to change over the years, sometimes more than once in response to government regulations. Lastly, gasoline is a product that is likely blended for specific regions, seasons, even altitudes. If the location happens to be a populous place like Los Angeles, there can be different blends for areas within the city itself. You nailed it Tony, with your explanation of all the trouble that happens with small engines and gravity feed fuel tanks.

[@iwanttobetankman4260]

You should talk about zinc oil additives some time. I put some of that in my engine along with some good filters.

[@daddysbrokegarage]

Valvoline VR1 20-50 in every muscle car i own

[@dogsense3773]

I rebuilt my 390 engine in1995, been using zinc additives the whole time motor runs great!

[@johncollins5552]

Indirectly Tony covered it. As he said if the engine is built after 71 it has hardened valve seats and won't need any additive but if it's before that it will need additive or new hardened valve seats .

[@viktorhardindyrvold4234]

@@johncollins5552 different things, these guys are talking about zinc in your engine oil to keep the cam lubed.

[@docbob3030]

Hey Tony, great video, but thought I'd like to add a comment as a 35+ year experienced mechanic/engine builder. The lead content was also very important in the longevity of valve stem guides and sealing. Old cast iron heads can be fitted with stainless valves without the need for hardened valve seats to slow down the issue of valve height/recession problems. Mostly overlooked beyond valve seats, as with this video, is the importance of the use of lead for valve stem/ guide lubrication. There must be some type of lubricant within the intake fuel charge to lubricate the stems and guides. These will wear much quicker than valve seats and damage an old engine to the point of rattling and smoking due to worn valve stems and seals. Awesome channel mate, love ya work and sending all our best wishes from us petrol heads here in Australia 😎

[@rcnelson]

I use Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas for that purpose, but really don't know if it works. I figure if oil in gas is enough to lubricate two-stroke engines, MMO probably does the same for the valves.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

My race trapter was sitting for over 2yrs now, I figured it would be a good idea to get it out if mothballs. Always used stabilized fuel, and it was drained. Still has an odor in the tank and the rubber duel lines are hard as a rock. Might as well drop the carb bowl and see what's up there too. Ethanol sucks for storage, and making it from corn is a loser but the corn lobby is huge you're never gonna stop them.

[@daveself6386]

I'm trying to dig up where I found it, I've been several places digging about Isooctane and super fuels of the late 40's. It's out there I swear, I stumbled on it and being and engine geek I was reading online at work years ago while goofing off. If I find it I will post it

[@glenncrockett4451]

Ethanol sucks for storage! Oh my God!! That is one of my biggest Problems I was a Power Equipment/Motorcycle mechanic for almost 40 yrs, the damage to small engine & motorcycle fuel systems was & still is horrible. I know better and still forget to keep stuff either drained or running though I do put Stabil my fuel. Also I keep at least 5gal of fuel through winter just in case of power outages for a Genny, I date and tag the can when I buy the fuel. One of the biggest problems I see with vented fuel systems is damage from the moisture it absorbs, I have seen carbs turn to white dust, a friend put his Motorcycle away in a metal shed for 2yrs and the carb looked like it spent ten yrs at the bottom of the Atlantic, there was nothing left of the bottom of his fuel tank also.

[@dennisyoung4631]

Perhaps, for storage, use this chemical fuel, e.g. true-fuel? It supposedly keeps especially well. It gets expensive if you use much, though. I hope to use it exclusively in an *emergency generator* - where it *might* use a gallon per year.

[@Richie_the_Fixer]

@@dennisyoung4631 you should be able to find ethanol-free fuel at select stations much more affordably than purchasing Trufuel , which sells for $20 gallon at the h0M€ d€p0t near me . I pay $5.50 for ethanol-free 92 octane .

[@dennisyoung4631]

@@Richie_the_Fixer there is one of those nearby, or there was. Not sure if they are still open for business. The reason I spoke as I did is that I do not plan on running the *emergency generator* very often, and do not wish to take chances. Also, I won’t need more than perhaps a quart at a time. (If I anticipate needing *more* than a quart, I’ll hunt up some ethanol-free gas.) Even so, I still plan on running the last tank of a multi-tank session with the canned stuff.

[@BareRoseGarage]

Driving style has a lot to do with this as well. My Aunt Mae would burn the valves a lot, but it was because she idled everywhere she went (35mph was fast for her & it scarred us for life riding with her). My Uncle Glenn would have to take it out on the hwy about once a month and drive it like a drunken teenager to blow the carbon out of it. Because of that, dad had to do a lot of head work for her (and many other things) because she would just load that poor Nova solid with carbon (esp after Uncle Glenn passed away).

[@abeneufeld9690]

Run the engine and clean the carbon out while reving the engine and pouring water down the carb, the carbon will get blown out the tailpipe Or poor trans fluid into the carb and smoke out your neighbors lol

[@BL2197]

@@abeneufeld9690 I was always told to use diesel?

[@albertgaspar627]

this was always a classic story, little old lady who only drives on sundays or folks who only put on "city miles" would carbon up the combustion chamber, and you add in a points ignition that wears out after you first turn the key...and the mechanic would do the classic "Italian repair"--take it out on the highway for lunch or floor the gas pedal at the bottom of the steepest hill in town--and charge full price for a tuneup. Otherwise as Abe said, trickle some water from a garden hose down the carb until the engine nearly stalls out. ATF is full of detergent, so it can clean a little bit.

[@BareRoseGarage]

@@abeneufeld9690 Oh yeah, we would do that as well with the ATF, actually never heard of the water trick until youtube... lol.

[@BareRoseGarage]

@@albertgaspar627 The problem she had though, it was a 3 on the tree manual car, and she rarely shifted. So the car "lugged" everywhere it went. Because of that her car was the also the 1st car I put a clutch in. I think I was 9 or 10yrs old at the time. Dad had the only automotive shop in town & figured it was a good one for me to learn on. 250 I6, and a little Saginaw 3 speed tranny.

[@JDWorkshop-wn9tt]

My first hand me down car in 1988 was the family 1974 Valiant (318). I remember the Sunoco by me still had “Regular Leaded” into 1989 I used to buy. Also, it was under $1.00 per gal. I remember when it hit a buck!

[@CrimFerret]

This is the best explanation of the lead in gas issue I've ever seen. One thing you didn't mention is how incredibly toxic tetra ethyl lead was. It was pretty dilute in gasoline, but get it full strength on your skin and you were in for a very bad time.

[@Czechbound]

I can remember here in Europe that it was feature on the news that lead would be removed from petrol. If I remember well, I think leaded fuel was only finally banned for sale on 1/1/2000 in Ireland.

[@mpetersen6]

@@Czechbound Leaded fuel in the US was banned for street use in 73 or 74 iirc. Prior to being banned unleaded fuel was primarily sold as fuel for Coleman type lanterns. We always called it White Gas. Remember at one time gasoline aka petrol was a waste product from refining kerosene out of oil. Even if we stopped burning oil tomorrow the petroleum industry is not going to go away. The stuff is too useful to burn really.

[@Czechbound]

@@mpetersen6 Very interesting ! I've just read that leaded petrol was only introduced in 1922. Japan was the first to ban its sale in 1972. The last refinery to produce it was based in Algeria, and stopped production in 2021. On 30th August 2021 the UN announced that globally it was fully banned and no longer being produced.

[@Hayk1705]

I asked this question last week. Thanks for all the info Uncle T. Now I know how to check that my valves are good and great to know for future junkyard rescues!

[@eric63377]

Modern gasoline will kill your cylinder heads IF they are PRE 1971! In 71 they started hardening exhaust valve seats. Prior to that they are NOT and that's why there was Leaded gasoline. Now I have personally seen exhaust seats beat up into the head about 1/8 to 1/4 inch, On 2 different sets of heads that were PRE 1971. You CAN have your older heads fixed and have hardened valve seats installed and that will fix the issue or just use a lead additive. Now the ethanol increase is a whole other discussion.. Edit: After I watched the video Tony covered this. Good job Tony!

[@matts7556]

EFI fuel hose is what you use to solve the fuel hose problem it lasts alot longer

[@DarkLinkAD]

Submersible fuel hose if you really wanna spend

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Not really ,my trapters been sitting 2yrs ,always run on stabilized fuel and it was even drained. The fuel hoses are hard as a rock, they had maybe 2yrs of service before sitting.

[@DarkLinkAD]

@@MrTheHillfolk Clear hose?

[@SweatyFatGuy]

It definitely holds up to gasoline better. I have no problems with my ethanol fueled vehicles using either the cheap stuff or the EFI hose. That pump gas though, and particularly race gas, I had to change the rubber hoses and accel pumps in my drag car back in the 90s, every other year. Sometimes I got two years out of them. Three years they cracked and sprayed fuel everywhere.

[@danaglass5394]

Always use Seafoam when storing anything gasoline powered for longer than 2 months. Seafoam also takes away the corrosive effects of ethenol so fuel hoses won't dry out or accelerator pumps etc.

[@twiz8789]

Additives or "snake oil mechanic in a bottle" makes it worse. Look up Tarrel Fixes all on you toob. He does a year long test with all kinds of additives. The last ones standing was non ethanol canned fuel and 87 PUMP GAS!!!! All the snake oils left a gooey jelly in the carbs. Good watch

[@peterdevreter]

I drive an old carb car from the 60's on 10% ethanol, no problems at all. I did replaced all the rubber lines with modern lines.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

50 year old rubber is a fire hazard regardless of what fuel you are running.

[@zarkeh3013]

I added a fuel composition sensor to a '78 ... and Nylon Fuel Lines!

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@zarkeh3013 My 70 GTO has all the factory stuff under it. Been on E85 and E100 since 2007. E10 from 1994 to 2007. Zero issues, other than the now 50+ year old sender O ring.. lol. Its also been sitting since 2018 because of electrical issues, and I want to do a frame off rebuild on it, the suspension is really tired. It was my daily driver for a long time. The 65 GTO has steel line feeding EFI, running E85 since 2018. Its my current daily in the summer. 11.5:1 455 making plenty of grunt. The 79 Formula has 1/2" aluminum fuel line, and a plastic cell in the trunk. It runs E85 too. When I add EFI to the 70 Cuda, it will get nylon lines, even if it stays on pump gas. That stuff is so much easier to work with, its just crazy easy and works great. I need to upgrade the 68 LeMans, its fuel system isn't quite adequate for what it is and what its going to do. Namely, beat up on a poor hapless LS powered LeMans at the NNN.

[@crazycoffee]

The C heads on my 68 Toronado looked beautiful under all the grime. No etching / scratching everything was nice and smooth. Compare that to my buddy's 54 Jeeps just eaten until the valves just fall in

[@GamingWerk]

The heads from the late 60s olds are pretty impressive! I took my '69 Toronado's heads to the shop and when I asked whether or not I needed to harden the valve seats (since the old valves were completely pitted and useless), they said that it's not necessary since Oldsmobile use to build them really well and mine were in great shape. They also said that because of that, putting unleaded fuel won't harm them at all, so that's a relief!

[@crazycoffee]

@@GamingWerk Oldsmobiles has pretty nice cast quality overall. From the heads, intake, exhaust, and block the casting is pretty consistent. The low profile intake, even though highly restrictive and back breaking, is nicely cast and smooth. I'm in love with TH425 vehicles now, and have a lot more love for BOP stuff.

[@jakespeed63]

Good info According to Tony at Ross Racing, my 1964!Oldsmobile 394 had extremely durable seats and didn’t require hardened inserts.

[@ricksshop]

If you pull the plugs out of the top of an older Holley metering block you will likely find a white powdery substance at the top of the well tubes. Unknown if it's left there from additives after the fuel evaporates or caused by ethanol reacting with aluminum/steel in the fuel system. Explains why they get flaky with age. New metering blocks ($70) would probably fix them.

[@HamiltonSRink]

Tony's words are true. I have some supplemental info from my experience with English triples from 1969 to 1975 (BSA and Triumph). These engines run on the hot side, and valve face and valve seat wear was quite fast. I would recondition the heads with three angle valve jobs and new valves, guides, and springs. 4 thousand miles later (not sparing the whip miles), the seats and the valve faces were quite worn and damaged. Craters of the moon type damage. I tried the Lucas top cylinder lube additive in the gasoline. I was quite impressed to find the face of the valves were no longer cratered, but very smooth looking. I think it helps a lot!

[@stevelacker358]

My old car fuel systems have been very trouble free (knock wood) since ethanol, but I did replace the rubber parts with compatible parts, AND I drive them enough to replace all the fuel in the tank a few times a year, minimum. You are DEAD RIGHT! about small engines with gravity feed carbs. When you park them, the carb acts like a distillery… the fuel evaporates from the bowl, but the additives don’t. Gravity replaces the fuel and more additives come in, repeat, repeat, repeat, until you have a carb bowl full of sticky, gooey, crusty distilled additives that plug the jet which is usually at the bottom of the bowl. Putting a little fuel shutoff valve in the fuel line (and remembering to close it before storage) solves 99.99 percent of those problems.

[@Czechbound]

Great idea !

[@mdcuddy3286]

As a standard practice when I used iron heads, the valve seats were replaced with Stellite seats. All valve heights were checked both with and without springs, spring heights and stretch and tension and shims added if springs needed. These little things were often overlooked.

[@sunnyray7819]

Ethonal evaporates and draws in moisture, water.. You will get a layer of water in the bottom of the tank if it sits.. Doesn't take long either... My other main gripe is it messes up plastic and rubber pretty quick.. I never use it in my 2 strokes...

[@SweatyFatGuy]

ethanol does absorb water. However, it does not evaporate easily. Does vodka evaporate sitting in the bar without a lid on it? What about whiskey? Do the4y absorb a lot of water from the air? The way it works is ethanol, methanol, and isopropyl all bond to water in your fuel tank. Then they still burn without a problem allowing you to remove the water from your tank. You get water in the tank with E0, and you have to use things like HEET or DryGas to get it out. I had a 1984 F150 where the tank had rusted to the point if it had more than 1/4 tank it just ran out. Looking inside when I scrapped it, the only thing keeping the bottom from leaking due to rust was the varnish left by gasoline. Just like the crankcase, water condenses in the fuel tank with heat cycles. A cold beer on a humid day condenses water the same way. So does cold concrete on a humid day. That same process happens in every fuel tank and crank case with heating and cooling cycles. You have to get the oil over 212F to boil the water out, can't heat the fuel tank now can we? So ethanol, methanol, and isopropyl will allow you to burn the water that condenses inside the tank. Do a test. Get some Everclear or some other high proof whiskey, add water to it and see what happens. You simply lower the proof. The additives they put in pump gas are causing the problems with rubber and small engines. Also you can run straight ethanol in your 2 strokes without a problem, but you can't use the two stroke oil for gasoline. it doesn't mix with ethanol. Use cooking oil or castor oil instead and it will run forever, except they tend to run too cold, so you need to limit the cooling to get them warm enough.

[@mostlypeacefulmisterputin]

I’m not an expert, but my understanding is that there are several things that are all true at once (maybe not all to the same level). Yes ethanol evaporates,also it is highly hygroscopic (just like your brake fluid.) Meaning it absorbs atmospheric moisture/water. There are many different variables (ethanol content, humidity, etc) that determine the rate of absorption. If you have a sealed fuel system with 100 gallons of (say) pure ethanol and 100 gallons of moist air. There is not enough water in the air to go into the ethanol and reach the azeotropic ratio-not by 2 or 3 orders of magnitude. If you know the relative humidity of the air at the time the tank was opened (and the temperature), you can find the absolute humidity (the mass % of water vapor in the air) and so estimate the maximum amount of water that went into the tank. Since 100 gallons is about 20 times the volume of a mole of gas (22.4 liters), assuming an absolute humidity of 10% (it's very likely way less) the answer is about 2 moles, or about 40 grams. In equilibrium (in the closed system) almost all of the water vapor will very soon go into the ethanol, so you have 100 gallons of ethanol (with a bit of toluene), plus 40 g of water. That's 0.01%. Whether this much water ruins your alcohol or not, you will know better than anyone. Every time you open the tank, you're potentially letting in 40g of water. I say "potentially" because, since the gas content is not instanty exchanged, much less water than that might go in. But still, if you open it often, the percentage will keep going up, asymptotically to the azeotropic ratio. But since the alcohol will also evaporate, as has been pointed out, you probably won't ever get near that ratio.

[@sunnyray7819]

@@mostlypeacefulmisterputin Thanks for the info! I live in Florida so it's something like 200% humidity most of the time... Hehe.. I more notice the problem with gas sitting in a gas can.. But I sometimes leave them outside under the gazebo. Vehicles don't really seem to be affected by this phenomenon as much... ✌🇺🇸✌

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@mostlypeacefulmisterputin thank you for that, I hadn't done the math or researched into that part of it yet as I am not a chemist. I only pick up what I need to know. I know there isn't enough water in the atmosphere to cause a problem with ethanol, but there is with gasoline. ANY water is a problem with gasoline, as they do not mix. So that 40g (rough estimate I assume) that condenses in the tank, can add up over time. If you only open the tank to add more ethanol it means you have burned most of that 40g that was possibly in there. If its gasoline, you have definitely not burned that water out. Its still sitting there. Its why we have products like HEET and DryGas, which do exactly the same thing ethanol does, let you burn the water that condenses inside the tank. Well it removes it and goes through the engine harmlessly... not like water catches fire. Lets say I have 94% ethanol with 6% water in it, or even anhydrous ethanol, lets call it a 10 gallon tank to make the math simple. At 160 proof, or 80% is when an electrolysis starts to form and non anodized aluminum slowly, very slowly, is pulled into suspension. So we need to add around 2 gallons of water to get to 160 proof (6% less with my 94% ethanol) and then wait a couple years for the aluminum to be 'etched.' It does not harm steel at all, with any proof. Its still a viable fuel, but starts to lose power after 160 proof. 180 proof, or 90% is the goal for making your own, more proof than that is a plus. 40 grams is a long way from 2 gallons... since a gallon is 3,785g. I'm assuming you are going with worst case, high humidity etc? If they drive into a lake, or park it under the gutter downspout and it fills with water through the vent, that could lower the proof far enough. You'd also have a trunk full of water and a soaked interior. In the 15 years I have been running E85 and E100, the only issue I have found regarding evaporation is my ethanol content goes up when it sits in an open barrel or in my tank. The gasoline components start vaporizing and boiling off, leaving higher ethanol content.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@mostlypeacefulmisterputin Since you are a chemist would you help me out with something? Do a quick estimate on how much water could be condensed inside a 20 gallon tank with 40%, 60% 80% and 100% humidity? With a temp range of 60F to 105F? I would be hugely appreciative, because I am sure I would not get the math right. I was taking mech engineering before I realized I didn't like working on stuff for other people, I wanted to build things for myself, and had to go back to the military to try to dig myself out of the debt my ex wife caused before she filed. Haven't needed to finish the degrees, and that was in 1994/5 that I dropped eng.

[@speedy_pit_stop]

11:10 With the heads off the engine, I can see how using a straight edge would work without removing the rockers if installed. Tons of knowledge as always. I love this channel.

[@PavelZajec]

I ran unleaded gas in my '55 Buick for a long time with no issues. The next car, a '68 Impala, was run on it for the 10 years I owned it- '85 to '96-and had no issues. I now run my '37 Dodge on it and it runs fine. The only time I used a lead additive, which was on the Impala, it fouled out the spark plugs.

[@lgude]

Brilliant - I’m remembering any number of Mini and Morris 1100 heads with badly sunken valves here in hot Western Australia back in the 70s and 80s, but never understood what had happened until today. Since I could swap those heads out in 30 minutes, I just hand reseated the valves on a spare head and swapped it in when the one in the car started to play up.

[@pauberrymon5892]

Perfect explanation of a by gone era.👍👍👍👍👍🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 Another solution to keep the valves from eating the seats if you have all the proper tools is to widen the contact area on the seats and valves when you're resurfacing them, it's very very time consuming but it will work, just don't make it too wide or it could eventually burn and/or crack the valves, but when done correctly no problems, it also ensures a better seal during the power stroke.

[@MrStrollerisme]

Gald you mentioned a maybe for the old heads. When I sent my '65 383 to the machine shop I expected to have to have hardened seats put in. He told me nope "They are hardened" and asked me if I was sure they had never been done. I pulled it from my '65 Sport Fury I got from the original owner. Totally never touched.

[@DrewLSsix]

Hardened seats were not unheard of in the 60s, pretty standard for hipo engines but also made it into mid range performance motors and luxury cars.

[@tylertkelley6779]

It is fun because you always seem to come-around to addressing what really matters. In my engine building days the split was between performance and dependability. In the case of the work rigs vis-a-vis Mail trucks etc.carrying heavy daily loads in Urban traffic; every single head got hardened gas seats. If they were too far gone, we used a large press, drilled and inserted molybdenum press fit seats, w/ the theory that the new seats would be far harder(BHS) than valves. Additionally, in Physics during the stoichiometry section, very simply if your combustion chamber is at the sweet spot of 67-69 cc's and one finds X5 sunken valve seats, this increases space or fuel volume which as we know in a performance application decreases compression. +V=(-P)+(-T) Decrease in P of course equals a decrease in compression. In 1996-98 enter the fad of + deck height numbers to increase compression.

[@ss67camaronut]

Yes, my father and uncles as well as grandpap often talked of the time when there were NO SPEED LIMITS and little limits on bravery!

[@williamrosenow6176]

The straight edge idea helped. I knew most of this and my theory was that the high heat on the valves from lack of lead would do like a case harden. lots of parts on heavy equipment have soft shafts with only a 1/4in. of hardened steel on the shaft. Now I can check my 1966 nailhead without tearing too much apart. It runs fine but I didn't put any additives in or premium gas just drove it.

[@tobygathergood4990]

Apart from the destructive effects of ethanol on the fuel system is that ethanol doesn't produce the power of gasoline. It eventually reaches a point of diminishing returns. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more is used to attain the power produced by gasoline, the more ethanol you need to use to get the same mileage from an engine because of the power loss. I do remember when unleaded fuel came along I had to have stellite seats installed in all my older engines. It generally depends on how hard an engine is used as to how much wear it suffers. I also remember the lead in automotive paints used to allow a really beautifully smooooth paint jobs. Great summary!

[@oldblueaccord2629]

Totally wrong...very well written. Great summary!

[@johnmcmullen456]

On my Ford 2.3 lima engine, I had oversized valves installed during a performance rebuild, and a few years later had burnt seats and ruined valves from running lead free gas. Apparently the seat hardening was removed or compromised when cut for the bigger valves. I also had new lawn equipment failure due to ethanol fuel errorsion. That industry needs to upgrade like the car manufacturers have done to handle at least the 10% blend at most pumps. Now I make sure the fuel is very fresh and use a popular additive for storage.

[@rustbeltmotors3659]

That straight edge trick is great. Thanks tony

[@ClaremontClassicGarage]

We did a 68 302 for my dad's 53 F100 in late 80s. 3o years and about 30K miles later he complained it was running like crap. Turns out the exhaust valves were so far into the heads, they couldn't close anymore. never seen anything like it. I always thought seat recession was a myth till I saw that.

[@eric63377]

Yes sir I left a comment about this. I have personally seen 2 sets of heads this way. Sorry to hear your cyl heads got beaten up. Hopefully they were repairable.

[@ClaremontClassicGarage]

@@eric63377 I actually ended up using one as ballast in my enduro car LOL. We lucked into a fresh Ford Reman 5.0 roller motor for dad's old truck.

[@Aloa2011]

TY,Tony for sharing your knowledge!

[@twiz8789]

Tarrel Fixes all does a year long fuel test with multiple engines using all kinds of fuel additives. All the fuel additives gummed up the carbs and non ethanol canned fuel and 87 octane only thing running after a year. Fuel additives dont do crap for ethanol. Actually makes it worse according to his test

[@gailsmith9835]

Check out what the buick nailhead... they were a marine engine designed for coast guard marine use with a very broad rule requirement. They featured high nickel heads to combat valve preceeding and swirl combustion chamber to prevent preignition.

[@nerradnosnhoj5122]

Check replacement carburator needle / seat , tips of needles made of a material that may react with ethanol also, the material that they use for the float itself , some floats are no longer brass , same for the floats in fuel tanks

[@morgenhoop]

Good stuff, UTG!

[@gittnjiggy2]

Great explanation of sunken valve seats. Now if you have an engine from the 60s and it has more than a couple of thousand miles on it (maybe some car that grandpa bought and never drove) it's time to take it apart and rebuild it with some hardened (stellite) seats.

[@tomwerb3268]

ALL 1960-69 Chevy Corvairs had hardened valve seats installed in the Aluminum heads and are perfectly happy with Unleaded Gas. The problem they have is that over decades of heat cycles, some engines start dropping valve seats; this is most common in the "Big Valve" 140HP heads.

[@Ian-of9oi]

Probably been said in the comments but what I really want to know about is modern OILS and vintage engines. I hear you need to run diesel oil in 70s motors because of the cams. Hope Tony does a video on that.

[@cougariog8817]

Got alot out of this Uncle Tony!!! How about tutorial of one of the vintage sears engine analyzers? Different hookups ect. Thanks

[@drr1071]

Hey Tony. Thanks for doing your part to keep hot rodding and common sense alive.

[@davenorman8251]

A friend of mine has ht holden with a blown 383 chev running e85 when the engine was new he made the mistake of storing the car for 3 months without flushing the fuel system with standard fuel..when we pulled it out for a car show we found that the valve guides were stuck to the shafts..it was a simple "tap it with a hammer fix" but lesson learned. He now drains the carb,tank and flushes with a lean 2 stroke mix prior to storage. E85 is terrible for drawing moisture as it evaporates. I have also heard of people using kerosene and atf to stabilize the fuel in the carb if it's going to sit for a while

[@debd7803]

My old car was parked when leaded gas still existed and did same after about 10 yrs of sitting. Then it sat another almost 10 yrs and i forgot to do the hammer fix and had a couple bent push rods. So now I'll remember! lol Hasn't sat more than maybe 2 or 3 months since '04 now but took 4 yrs to get it to that point with brakes, tranny and engine etc. just to get it on the road driving on low budget. Not a show car but i like it that way! Was my first car.

[@todddenio3200]

Now I know how to decide if an older engine is going to be needing to have the valve seats replaced without having to take the heads off. I can’t wait for decent weather so I can check my 63 318 Poly to see if it is going to be needing it or not

[@roundtuitracingaz132]

When they started adding the ethanol the problem I had was it reacted with the metal of my carb (stock Autolite) which caused the fuel to foam up. Car would barely run. Arco was the worst of all the brands. Changing to a Holley greatly reduced the problem.

[@egodeathplease]

I think alot of that depends on the application n set up. Are you pushing the enging hard? Runnung it lean? Is it a 318 in a boxtruck with glowing red manifilds or a 383 in a Dart running cool, rich with low gears?

[@GhettoWagon]

I run pure gas when I can. You can find it allover in Florida. Could not find it at all living in NY. NYC area. Since then When my car and truck sits.... NOTHING evaporates. My gas level stays the same. Ethanol gas it just goes "Poof" in my tank Rusts steel gas tanks. Collects water. Crap. I have 1 year old Ethanol free gas now it still looks clear smells fine burns fine. I have 2 year old ethanol free fuel in another car. Same thing.

[@nicholasagnew2792]

Lead substitute is mostly diesel and contains other forms of petroleum, I think it might be a scam. I think a splash of diesel in a tank of gas would do the same thing. Also at the end of the year they are going to decide whether or not to increase the amount of ethanol in gas...oh btw good stuff man, I like all your videos

[@flinch622]

I have caught the bad end of this about 30 years back. Heads are long gone now [cracked], and as retired there was zero sign of a valve job left: some kind of bowl remained instead of seatwork, and recess was probably around 0.050" and most valve guides had gone egg shaped. Guides were iron, not bronze. Its last hurrah was a coast to coast road trip, the latter half of which had me so nervous I was afraid to shut it down - went Dallas to LA, hot pumping every stop. Built a new motor on arrival, keeping only the manifold and distributor. In honor of that miraculous trip [yes, I logged one 11 hour section of 24mpg], that dizzy will be going up on the wall - but it's still running for now, and it's... busy.

[@samhicks97]

Wonder if the chrysler 516 head castings had different metallurgy than other head manufacturers at the time. I have a chrysler 361 with 516 heads and have no sunk valves, it's being driven daily and the somewhat occasional WOT romp. Edit: High RPM situations may promote more valve seat etching, while at normal driving RPM 700/900 may not be enough to start eating the seats away. Just some food for thought.

[@craigbenz4835]

A long time ago I used a set of 516 heads on a 440 build. I had the hardened seats installed along with the big exhaust valve. It worked nice, but now wondering if it was a waste of money. I'll never know, I sold the car 25 years ago.

[@samhicks97]

@@craigbenz4835 Hopefully the heads are not sunk in yet 25 years later! Edit: most likely won't have sunk valve seats as hardened seats are in. Edit: When I have my 516 heads off next time, I'll install 1.74 exhaust valves but no hardened seats and see what happens.

[@jontrudell7529]

CAR CULTURE LEADER UTG

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

The lead left considerably more deposits behind in the crankcase, it wasn't unusual to find loads of gack under the valve covers blocking the drainback passages.

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

@@DanEBoyd It just looks like coked oil deposits, grimy, sorta greyish sludge. There's probably more lead than otherwise and I wouldn't spread it on my sandwich but nobody ever considered it especially toxic that I know of. Today's motor oils are much better as well, so there's that too. Those deposits would've been cleaned up years ago, doubt you'll run into anything especially toxic these days but at 30-40k miles it was pretty common to see this sludge formed. You could tell it was becoming an issue when you found engine oil in the air cleaner box.

[@WhiteTrashMotorsports]

Awesome video Tony, it should help a lot of people.

[@Daniel-fd3wp]

My Dad went To Hoover High School in Glendale California in the mid 60’s he said you can see the smog from the Vehicles in the hallways.

[@General_Proton]

Uncle Tony is such an awesome guy , I really appreciate how much of a gentleman he is , like a breath of fresh air indeed. However I also love the smell of a mixture of fuel and burning rubber as well , #MakeAmericaCarberatedAgain !!!

[@forestlawrencegrading9154]

That's the answer to all my troubles right there it was the lead always in the garage for cold starts prior to 1976 and chewed on the window sills in the sixties can't make sense of nothing since the 90s🤪⛽🇺🇸😁

[@frankjackson2439]

What would cause intake valve wear on a classic engine? I took the head off the 200ci in-line 6 on my 1966 Ford Mustang to replace the rings and the intake valves where in really bad shape. The intake valve guides where also shot. The exhaust valves on the other hand where in beautiful shape, no guide wear, the seats and valves where not sunken in or anything, they looked great. The intake valves where in worse shape than the seats, not very uniform, definitely overheating and not uniform enough to seal really well.

[@buckeyejim2989]

Imo🤔 valve guide gaulding or poor lubrication in guide/valve area is the death of old cars now. Excellent job on trying to make sense outta that era and good job explaining these issues, basic on all engines 👍 Thanks for sharing

[@gailsmith9835]

Hardened valve seats are much cheaper in production engines that is why they went to them. Older higher quality engines used much more expensive nickel/iron castings that would work without lead.

[@robertchall8576]

I liked that information I have a 71 F 100.with a 302 around 150.000 miles.

[@dionrau5580]

I'm only running 91oct rec fuel, non alcohol in my 91coupe DeVille, They weren't pushing gas cut with alcohol when it was built, I ain't taking chance with it. It definitely caused problems with my Old 83honda.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

Japanese cars are less fond of ethanol, they aren't blessed with enough injector capacity to run more than 10%, and even that is pushing it. The 83 Honda would not have compatible parts in it, some rubber is good with gasoline, some with ethanol, some with both. It depends on what they used. Gasoline is compatible with the least number of rubber compounds. Asian cars need larger injectors to go to E85 or E98 for racing, the stock ones are marginal at best on gasoline. The LS engines can go 40% ethanol without an issue. Qjets can handle 30% ethanol with the models before they went to the lean tunes in the 80s. Starting in 1983, all domestic US vehicles were compatible with 1% to 100% ethanol in the fuel as far as rubber and gaskets. If it can handle 10% it can handle 100%. The Asian cars are another story entirely.

[@cranerigging3604]

I have not noticed any effects of gas today verses 30 years ago . At 1:55 my opinion is the rubber is not as good as it used to be .

[@qbraun9241]

Now that there is a supply shortage of it, they are blending with synthetics and making it cheaper to get to go further.

[@williammetcalf7239]

cool video. So much info to take in about this issue. Thank you for telling us all about what it is all about.

[@iwanttobetankman4260]

Ethanol gas is objectively bad in most ways economicly, efficiency wise, the gas, shelf life is worse, it has less energy, it doesn't help the environment, it can increase octane if more is added to gas. I would buy pure gas, but I don't want to go to specific stations and I don't want to pay more for gas.

[@frankbergmanII]

Once you factor in the subsidies it costs more per gallon

[@iwanttobetankman4260]

@@frankbergmanII so it costs me less per year to buy it?

[@eric63377]

@@iwanttobetankman4260 Yes it will cost you less in the long run if you run your car off of straight gasoline with out ethanol.

[@iwanttobetankman4260]

@@eric63377 okay that's neat though running all the way to gas station like is still inconvenient. I was going to put a diesel in my car and get free used fryer oil.

[@eric63377]

@@iwanttobetankman4260 That's what's up. I was just giving you some advice. There's a way you can get Diesel fuel and gasoline from plastic bags.

[@jimvellios1426]

nice tut on this matter, better understanding on how fuel affects engine

[@Jimmysidecarr]

Excellent video! Great explanation of a very real, but poorly understood gearhead/car guy problem.

[@Tk-ou9ec]

Fascinating Tony! I was told that my 1980 318 Chrysler had hardened valve seats. After watching this I believe it does?’

[@discerningmind]

The sound of traffic going by destroyed any allowance for undivided attention to what UT saying. I hold UT at a high level of esteem, so I want to hear every word that he says. I understand, an engine built during the period lead was used in gasoline, doesn't need a lead additive as long as you use a minimum of 89 Octane gas. That's given for light-to-normal driving. Over the years I went a step further and only buy 93 Octane gas. And I've never had a valve or head problem with the vintage cars that I've owned by using 93 Octane. I understand: 93 Octane is a late-burn- the valves run the coolest. 89 Octane is an on-time-burn- the valves will be OK with light-to-normal driving. 87 Octane is an early-burn- the valves run the hottest. One thing for sure is you never want to hear the valves pinging when the engine is under even the lightest load.

[@richhauxwell7848]

You mean the unleaded corn squeezin blends, good stuff.

[@wobbles7915]

This man just murdered like 20+ years of boomer forum arguments, bless him.

[@conchrisafis2617]

Legend so much info so simple to understand keep em rolling

[@danielbeiersr3642]

I agree with some points brought forth here but I have experienced problems with methanol enrich gas actually causing the inside of carburator bowls to dissolve the interior surface of bowls leaving a thick residue in the bottom of bowls which eventually fines it way into the rest of the carb internals. If that's not enough head ache, on engines that sit more then run the methanol will separate from the gas which can lead to moisture and more corrosion in the carb. It gets even worse if you try to use methanol gas in small 2 cycle engines, the methanol will eat up the interior of the small engine carb guickly.

[@glocke380]

In 1933 Chrysler began shrink fitting 6 steel rings into the exhaust port of their engines thus becoming the first company to do so in a production automobile. This was considered at the time as a watershed development.

[@spankyham9607]

I enjoyed the history of Gasoline. I've heard modern rubber fuel line is made for Ethanol fuels. Dunno if this is true.

[@MichaelDavis-cy4ok]

I'm gradually working on bringing a couple of trucks back from the dead. One from the late 60s, the other from the late 70s. It's true. I'm putting in all new fuel hoses and carb kits to be compatible with ethanol because stations that sell regular unleaded are going the way of the dinosaur.

[@roccofortura2468]

No, maybe, quite possibly....Love it.

[@adammcilmoyl4278]

Some interesting information... I've been wondering about this actually since I've got a set of #188 square port BBC heads I've been thinking about using, but I know those didn't have hardened seats, or at least I don't think they did. They're not sunk at all, but I know it gets dicey putting hardened seats in a BBC head cuz you often hit water when machining for the seat, then the head is junk. These ones show no real seat wear at all, unlike my #781 oval ports that the old owner ran on propane, and all its exhaust valves are sunk probably 1/8" at least.

[@jonoh4883]

One of the coolest tricks my dad showed me was holding a sliver of paper at the exhaust tip. He showed me on my old 350 pontiac. A shitty seated valve would cause the paper to be Sucked into the exhaust at intervals.

[@Spaceplant109]

God bless you old man. You are so helpful

[@c300g]

Hi Uncle Tony. Fantastic video! I own a 65 Plymouth with a poly 318. How often should I put a lead additive in my gas? Is it necessary to use an additive every time I fill up my gas tank?

[@KurtTank392]

My father who pulled water ski racers in the 60s and 70s (chrysler 392 hemi) HalRoy Hull by Harold Hanneman, Told me racers of that era didnt use Shell gas, They all used Chevron gas. Just my fathers opinion.

[@mpetersen6]

When leaded gas was phased out the automakers had to add extra sections to their head machining lines in order to induction harden the valve seats.

[@skyline289]

dude i got like 10 things outa that, thanks UT! such good info

[@francfurian8215]

Great explanation & lesson once again Uncle Tony. Cheers 😊

[@bobhill3941]

Another very interesting video. I always get something out of these. Thanks for the knowledge.

[@chrisfreemesser5707]

If you're fortunate to live near bodies of water that have marinas, check out the gas stations nearby...they'll often have ethanol-free fuel available for the boats. That's how I'm able to run ethanol-free fuel in my classic :)

[@brocluno01]

1974 big block Chevy heads run hard in a roundy-round race boat. Valves so sunken that it would not make 50 psi compression on some cylinders. 1966 383 Mopar with hardly any trace of sinking. It's all in the iron used for the castings. Lot of old Ford truck engines run fine on unleaded. Similar passenger car motors (say 390), not so good ... Strangely a 1953 Hudson flat-head straight six, no problem at all. High Ni content block 😊

[@sammolloy1]

Catalytic converters were optional on forklifts since the early 50’s. They were never mandated for cars. But the emissions specs tightened to where “all cars” needed them. Some AMC cars and Subarus burned clean enough without them for a couple more years. The cats allowed the engines to revert to the more powerful specs of, say, 1972 so adding them actually increased performance.

[@GHOST117HALOBOYCOD]

Yes and no they lowered performance in the early days be they were restrictive but once the tech got better they weren’t as big of a deal

[@ercost60]

Classic Uncle Tony preaching from his engine block pulpit.

[@oldsrktracer]

Most guys who say that are not educated enough. I run E BLENDS no issues . The current engine in my cruiser is an old bracket engine I did 15 years ago running nothing but e BLENDS , I never drain the carbs in either the cruiser or drag car which both run E blend 87 and 93 no issues. If you have issues it's because the cars sit too long and the E BLENDS absorb moisture and separate.

[@mgtowlevel5293]

He's talking about all engines not just cars.

[@driedbrainfreeze2149]

Fine job Tony!

[@ljshoreslokal]

Great explanation!! I'm new to carb cars, I have a 63' Ford and I'm not using a lead additive in my original (never rebuilt) 390FE. It's due for a rebuild anyway so why not just run straight unleaded. Thank you for this video! I wish there was a UTG for Fords!!

[@EvrttGrn]

A LOT of UTG videos go for Fords and Chevy's as well, unless he's doing a specific motor or specific model video.

[@ljshoreslokal]

@@EvrttGrn I've watched a lot of UTG videos and applied the general knowledge to my car. Between UTG and Thunderhead289, I'm covered on a lot of fronts.

[@EvrttGrn]

@@ljshoreslokal I watch Thunder as well. He has a lot of good info also.