Is Mormonism Defensible Today? A Conversation with Eric Johnson.

[@cathyc1730]

I was raised LDS, and at age 20 God showed me the truth through a friend and I was born again! Hallelujah! It’s a beautiful testimony, God is so tender and merciful. Glory to God forever and ever!

[@srilankangenie]

It’s better to be some kind of Christian than deny Christ entirety

[@cathyc1730]

@@srilankangenie some kind of Christian? It’s a Christ follower, a Bible believer as the inerrant Word of the living God. One who has died to self and it is Christ who lives in you now, housed by the Holy Spirit. Salvation is a free gift, by grace through faith. You can do nothing in yourself to earn it. Recognize your sin, repent and believe that Jesus died on a cross for the sins of the world and rose again in three days. You will be saved. Amen. Glory to God always.

[@srilankangenie]

@@cathyc1730 My comment was not meant to be a backhanded insult to exalt myself above another Child of God. But that’s alright, I hope you’ll give me the benefit of the doubt and let me clarify that as a practicing Latter Day Saint, I have not found a single scripture in any of the church cannon where Salvation is earned. You maybe referring to the doctrine of deification. This doctrine was practiced by the early church. St. Athanasius wrote: For the son of God became man for we might become like God. 2 Peter 1:4 states that we might become partakers of God’s nature. Through his agency we can become new creatures. God chooses to exalt who he pleases and we can’t do that without his grace

[@avenged1110]

@@srilankangenie oh my my .. ignorance is BLISS for the Mormon apologists … The “Latter Day Saints” jesus LITERALLY does not exist … neither does the “latter day Saints” god. The Mormon god once was a “created” mortal man, now lives “near” a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, AND the “Latter Day Saints” god “ironically” teaches “Latter Day Saints” can become gods exactly like Satan desires to be a god. The Mormon - “Latter Day Saints” - god is a created, COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL, polytheistic (multiple - endless - gods)likely polygamist, FALSE god. Christians do not believe in the same god or gospel as Mormons in any way shape or form. Christians believe in The One and Only True God Jesus Christ found in the Bible. Mormonism literally worships false gods. As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother. The deception is clearly revealed. If the false Mormon prophets were actually honest they would name their church an honest name. The most honest name of the Mormon church is The Church of S A T A N S B R O T H E R of Latter-Day Satan’s Brothers and Sisters That way the whole world would know the false “entity” that Mormons believe in. Also, that name would not offend ANY Mormon because it is in perfect harmony with Mormon doctrine. We all now know - full well - the false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars” Revelations 21:8. Not telling the full truth - covering up - whitewashing - are ALL forms of deception, manipulation, and straight up lying!! Again…. The Mormon leaders are literally documented, verified and proven liars period … we all clearly know this. ANYONE actually honest with themselves and with God knows, Jesus Christ would never tell his “only true church” to whitewash, cover up, deceive and outright lie about its own history, finances and doctrines. That one fact alone proves Mormonism is a total false gospel. I truly pray that God will give you, and all Mormons, “eyes to see” and “ears to hear” the true gospel of Jesus Christ filled with unconditional love and grace. We pray in HIS name Jesus Christ, amen 🙏 Jesus is enough ❤️😇✝️🙏

[@BOON70]

@@avenged1110 Nice copy and paste... I wonder how many times I have seen that copy and paste?

[@rhondarockhound622]

My teenage best friends were Mormons. I was Christian. We had friendly arguments centered on the Bible in which we always concluded that the other was being deceived by Satan. I was a big nerd ,not cool enough for my Christian peers . I am so thankful for my very humble, kindhearted, Mormon friends. I pray for those who leave LDS and that they won’t give up on Jesus. They need to be convinced that there is One God in three persons. Not an easy concept. It’s something they will have to experience through the Spirit.

[@ShalaJC]

You are absolutely right. It is harder to have your Morman theology destroyed and to just throw everything out. We must, and I love that you brought this up, be able to say, YOUR NOT TOTALLY WRONG BROTHER. You are 2/3rds there. We just need to work on that last 3rd. I'm not sure exactly how we should phrase it, but I've had more people become atheist after realizing their teachers lied, so they throw the entire concept of God out the window.

[@Notfromhere347]

As someone who is currently LDS, I can guarantee you that if these Gospel Topic Essays were fully exposed in church, DROVES of LDS people would leave. Many of us have read them and would leave if we could. But there are too many still that will not read them and consider those of us who talk about them as apostates. The essays are absolutely being hidden and we are not supposed to talk about them. BTW I love listening to your channel.

[@thomassenbart]

You are LDS but can't leave the faith, why?

[@brettpinion4233]

Why are you LDS then? Don't take a chance on losing your soul for comfort. God bless and give you strength.

[@WhereWhatHuh]

A major problem to me with regards to Mormonism is this: 1.) That Joseph Smith said that God told him, face to face, that of the existing churches," I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt;" and, 2.) That the Apostle Paul said that even if an angel from heaven were to preach a different gospel, he should be accursed (Galatians 1:8). So if the gospel preached by Joseph Smith is the same as what is taught in contemporary churches, then Mormonism is cursed by Joseph Smith; If the gospel preached by Joseph Smith is different, then it was cursed by the Apostle Paul. That problem prevents me from taking Mormonism seriously.

[@mimked]

There's a problem with your logic. The "accursed" thing is only for an angel who teaches a _different_ gospel. Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was called of God to _restore_ the _true_ gospel. Therefore, there is no conflict.

[@WhereWhatHuh]

@@mimked Well, that's still a problem. If all of the churches that are "all wrong," and whose creeds are "an abomination," and whose followers are "all corrupt" are preaching essentially the same gospel (Jesus saving us from our sins) then the Mormon's "true gospel" is "an abomination," and"all wrong," and "all corrupt" as well. Either Smith curses them, or Paul curses them. And I won't talk about how we know authentically what Paul taught "as of first importance... Which, again, puts them under Paul's curse. And Paul said that it applied to anyone, _even_ an angel ... not just angels.

[@WhereWhatHuh]

@Daniel N. Ard Well, first, I would have to overcome the hurdle of the logical conflict between his First Vision claim and the clear prohibition in 1 Corinthians against following another gospel, as above. Second, I would have to overcome the clear inconsistencies in his recorded behavior (as found in Mormon records) and his claims of prophet status. Third, I would need to overcome his remarkably poor track record for the fulfillment of prophecy (as recorded in Mormon sources, such as the "grease-spot" prophecies, for example). Fourth, I would need to see clear and unambiguous prophecies from him that came true exactly as he claimed them, and that had no other explanation. And before you reach for D&C 87, remember that the American Civil War did not become a world-wide war, and did not lead to the end times, nor did it lead to a Mormon war against the "gentiles" (D&C 87:5,7); also the prediction of war itself was not that surprising, given the Nullification Act of 1832, which very nearly triggered a Civil War in 1832, beginning, surprise, in South Carolina. A biblical prophet is right in his prophecies 100% of the time (Deuteronomy 18:20-22) or he is to be killed as a false prophet, who dares to speak falsely in the name of the Lord. Joseph Smith got too many things wrong to be a prophet ...

[@WhereWhatHuh]

@Daniel N. Ard If what Smith claimed were true, yes, that would be important. But I first considered this question back in 1986. I carefully examined the claims of Joseph Smith, after discussing them for three straight days with a friend and coworker who was a returned Mormon Missionary, and was married with children. I set aside all of my personal feelings on the matter, and I resolved to follow what was true, regardless whether it was the position I had held, or a different position entirely. With that frame of mind, I knelt and sincerely asked God to reveal to me whether Mormonism came from Him. God led me to the clear understanding, from the Mormon sources, that Mormonism was not and could not be from Him. God showed me books that taught me about the character of Joseph Smith (some of them Mormon sources). I also read books that were pro-Mormon ... I am probably one of the few "gentiles" you'll ever meet who has read Apostle LeGrande Richards' _A Marvelous Work and a Wonder_ . But it was clear to me that Joseph Smith could not be a prophet, and the conflict between JS 1:19 and Galatians 1:8-9 is a good summary of the logical disparity that was revealed to me by the Spirit of God.

[@WhereWhatHuh]

@Daniel N. Ard Yes, Friend, I have read the BoM. I find the elephants in pre-columbian North America very amazing. Yes, I read it with a pure and seeking heart, as I said above, laying aside all my own preferences, and praying sincerely that God would simply show me if it were true... committing myself, even to follow whatever the Spirit of God revealed to me. I have also read the Pearl of Great Price. Friend, I have studied enough of the history of the Bible to know that it was not church leaders in the second or fifth centuries who went off after another gospel. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8 what gospel he preached, and if you feel that it is corrupted or mistranslated, I would encourage you to read it in the version that Joseph smith claimed to have restored. In fact, Friend, let me challenge you to do as you have challenged me: Let me challenge you to read the gospel of John ... I'm sure that you have read it before, but humor me here ... One More Time, but this time putting out of your mind everything you have ever been taught about it, and every doctrine that you have heard based on it. Simply read the story, from beginning to end, with a blank slate ... in your words, "with a pure and seeking heart." Pretend that you have never read it, or any religious writing, ever before. Don't read into it. Just take each word to say exactly what it says, no more and no less, "with a pure and seeking heart." When you've done that, then let's talk.

[@Lukesh30253]

I’ve met Eric a couple times in manti Utah, nice guy. I learned so much a few years I went there and learned under the top Mormon apologists.. I brought this knowledge home to Seattle and the local Mormons have been affected by the truth ! Thank you to Eric and the others who sowed into helping me refute this cult.!

[@Lukesh30253]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6XKkIFtj650nrc

[@richardholmes7199]

You're not with the Lord.

[@srilankangenie]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3-omouNqc6dh9k

[@lightwalker2655]

@@richardholmes7199 oh boy … the ridiculousness of Mormonism.

[@lightwalker2655]

@@srilankangenie oh boy … the ridiculousness of Mormonism.. 😐

[@marilynnoosterhof1853]

God bless Eric and so many other ex-mormons like Sandra Tanner. Looking forward to meeting them -- if not in this life, Heaven will be so wonderful with them

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

Which level of heaven?

[@mazharkefali9806]

This is so helpful. Sean, please share this with Jenkins, the director of the Chosen. He is doing podcasts with Mormons stating evangelicals and Mormons have more in common than we differ in and we believe in and worship the same Jesus.

[@kennethsanders1694]

We, as people, are so easily duped if we do not “study to show ourselves approved”. Trust but verify, is a key to make sure you understand and pray. Seek the truth. Lord open the eyes and heart of these precious souls. Jesus is the way, truth and life. Amen

[@ToothBrush531]

I left the church the moment I read on Gospel topics essays (written by the church itself) that Emma (Joseph Smith’s wife) only agreed to Joseph’s first 4 additional wives. Meaning he took over 30 wives without her consent. He wrote a doctrine regarding polygamy that states that a man MUST have consent from the first wife before he takes any other wives. So basically he broke “God’s” own doctrine. They even admit that Emma likely didn’t even know about MOST of his wives. So not only did she not give consent but she also didn’t know about them. Basically, I left when I found out that Joseph cheated on Emma with over 30 different women. No wonder Emma left the church before she died.

[@thomassenbart]

I don't believe Emma did leave the church before she died. She and her kids were involved in the RLDS church so... Given that all men are fallible and sin and if the above recounting is correct, why does that negate any other claim? Why was that a testimony killer for you? Given the long history of polygamy in the Old Testament and throughout history worldwide, what is it so heinous, merely the obfuscation with his wife or what?

[@ToothBrush531]

@@thomassenbart it’s not a hard concept, he cheated on Emma multiple times. That alone wasn’t a testimony killer, it was kind of what solidified it. There were many other immoral things that made me begin to question, I drew the line at the prophet cheating on his own wife. This fact alone points to a good possibility that Jospeh did this for sex and power, it’s obvious that he craves sex, since he cheated on his wife. So at the end of the day you have to ask yourself what’s more likely? Is it more likely that God told Joseph to do all these horrible things, that God took away other women’s agency by having Joseph guilt trip or even threaten them into marriage? That God told Joseph to tell emma she would be destroyed if she did no accept polygamy? That God told Joseph to marry women who already had husbands? Or could it be that those were all choices made by a man, who had obvious incentives (women and power). Like I already said, there are many more moral issues, like racism, but these was really the nail in the coffin

[@ToothBrush531]

@@thomassenbart and yes, I meant that she left the “real” church. It’s the same thing whether you left for the rlds church or the Catholic Church, the point is you left the “true” church

[@thomassenbart]

@@ToothBrush531 I'm not sure about the cheating part. I think those critical of JS, make those assertions but...regardless, if he did, I think it problematic to make the leap that everything he said or did was for sex and power. If you look at the Old Testament, what do you see? I would argue something very similar. So, I'm not sure about the conclusions you have drawn, even if correct. I would say that God works through flawed humans to do his will. I think you can see this with most of the ancient prophets. Again, I don't say that JS did cheat on Emma baby but just for arguments sake, this is not a deal breaker Biblically speaking. Further, I would hazard that JS was a sexual being and as he admitted many times, sinned and was scolded by God. However, he was also remarkable by any objective measure, as most tragic heroes are. Often it is these innate flaws which bring men down and this is what happened to JS. God did not tell JS to do evil nor would any women's agency be taken away because she made a decision, regardless. From what I have researched regarding JS marrying already married women. None of the 8 women named, left their husbands but continued to live as per normal. There is no evidence JS slept with any of them but that the marriages were 'eternal' ones only. Emma would be “destroyed” in the sense that she would not continue-or not be exalted. An earlier verse makes it clear that death will "destroy" all that is not sanctioned and endorsed by God, including marriage contracts (D&C 132:12-14). The section in a later verse then draws a distinction between being "destroyed" and "destroyed in the flesh." (DC 132:26)-thus some sinners may suffer physical "buffeting" by Satan while their marital relationship may remain sanctioned. www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjj9Pqs5-z2AhXJD0QIHVD-DooQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fairlatterdaysaints.org%2Fanswers%2FQuestion%3A_Was_Emma_was_promised_%2522annihilation%2522_if_she_didn%2527t_accept_plural_marriage%253F&usg=AOvVaw38ReDClnNrJCjDj5E4EXep You mention racism. JS did not exhibit any racism, as far as I know but if he did, that was ubiquitous at the time. It is problematic, in my opinion to judge historical figures by modern day mores, the assumption being that they are superior, which also is a bit of a stretch. The race issue concerning Mormonism and Blacks happened under Brigham Young in Utah.

[@ToothBrush531]

@@thomassenbart it’s not speculative as to whether Joseph smith cheated or not, it is admitted by the church in their website under gospel topics essays. Specifically the essay regarding polygamy, in one of the footnotes. Yes, technically there is nothing that would be a deal breaker for a believer. If you’re willing to accept murder, sexual sin, and racism as acceptable to God’s true church then there’s not really much worse that would be a deal breaker. For me, those things ended up being a deal breaker when combined with other facts and knowledge about the church. For me, I would think that God’s church would have an advantage in terms of having a moral high ground, but this is not the case with the lds church, once example is the fact that they were far behind in terms of viewing all races as equal. There are more examples that show the church was behind on current world views we all (including the church) consider to be morally true. If all we have is the spirit, and nothing else in order to discover the truth then it’s impossible. That same “spirit” lds people feel is the same thing that Catholics feel when confirming their faith. It’s the same thing Buddhists feel, Muslims, etc… so for me, there’s no answer unless there is an explanation or justification for the atrocities committed by the church

[@lauramau2530]

Joseph Smith wasn’t just a false prophet, he was a purposeful, conniving conman.

[@eugenefaber7638]

I was raised Catholic, and at the age of 31 the Holy Spirit showed me the truth as I was studying the Book of Mormon and literally told me that it was true and that I needed to get baptized.

[@deeanderson4164]

Stick to your Catholic faith.

[@leahunverferth8247]

Satan comes as an angel of light. You must test everything by Scripture. Leave the LDS church and stay out of the harlot of Rome. Trust in Christ alone and the true gospel of grace. You cannot serve God and Joseph Smith!

[@darlenemartim9972]

That not only speaks to our spirit but it’s knowledge. I’m a convert too

[@albusai]

Both religions are so wrong

[@junahbirchwater8514]

You should talk to Tal Bachman, famous musician and son of legendary musician Randy Bachman. He has quite the story around reaching a crisis of faith when he discovered Mormonism was false.

[@Calatriste54]

Very good, JB. I have really appreciated them both over the years..

[@lisfong]

Seriously looking forward to reading these resources. My husband was saved out of Mormonism, his parents are still very active, sister's family has left the church but we're still praying for their salvation. Thank you for this episode Sean!

[@SeanMcDowell]

So glad to hear!

[@teresarommel]

Before I knew much depth about being Mormon I went through the temple. I left because I had an overwhelming sense of evil in the temple.

[@robertlaabs5066]

Love You Sean and your Love of Truth! Blessings to both of you, and may GOD Continue to shine the light of the Gospel onto those caught in the lie of Mormonism.🙏

[@frenchtoast2319]

I have a question. As Christians, do we consider Mormons Christians too? I do not, for a few different reasons. They, however, do call themselves Christian. For example, their version of Jesus is not the Jesus we get in the Bible. So how can they be Christians if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ? And how do we explain this to non Christians, and or Mormons? If anyone would like to engage in this conversation I’d be much appreciative.

[@fayelewis5476]

Mormons are not Christians. They are a Christian cult. Usually, though, a cult is more narrowly defined, and the word refers to an unorthodox sect whose members distort the original doctrines of the religion. In a Christian context, the definition of a cult is, specifically, “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” A cult is a group that teaches doctrines that, if believed, will cause a person to remain unsaved. A cult claims to be part of a religion, yet it denies essential truth(s) of that religion. Therefore, a Christian cult will deny one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity while still claiming to be Christian. The two most common teachings of Christian cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. A denial of the deity of Christ results in the view that Jesus’ death was insufficient to pay for our sins. A denial of salvation by faith alone results in the teaching that salvation is achieved by our own works. The apostles dealt with cults in the early years of the church: for example, John addresses the teaching of Gnosticism in 1 John 4:1-3. John’s litmus test for godly doctrine was “Jesus Christ has come in the flesh” (verse 2)-a direct contradiction of the Gnostic heresy (cf. 2 John 1:7). The two most well-known examples of cults today are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. Both groups claim to be Christian, yet both deny the deity of Christ and salvation by faith alone. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons believe many things that are in agreement with or similar to what the Bible teaches. However, the fact that they deny the deity of Christ and preach a salvation by works qualifies them as cults. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and members of other cults are moral people who genuinely believe they hold the truth. As Christians, our hope and prayer must be that many people involved in cults will see through the lies and will be drawn to the truth of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html

[@frenchtoast2319]

@@fayelewis5476 Thank you! This was my understanding as well but you worded it much better than I was when having a debate. I appreciate the time you took to give such a thorough response. I explained that mormons and jehovah witnesses don’t believe Jesus is God and they have a works based salvation, but the athiest kept claiming that they were Christian and therefore my argument was basically moot. I tried explaining that while they believe they are Christian, other Christians don’t for the reasons above. However, he kept defaulting to “they’re Christian because they believe faith in Jesus saves.” I know that when people’s minds are made up on these things it’s almost impossible to make a dent. I was just hoping to answer his questions, but nothing was sufficient. It’s frustrating when 9/10 times I get stonewalled. It’s rare that I get positive responses, but often times am able to have a civil discussion. All I can hope to do is give biblical answers and pray that God will help them seek the truth. So many atheists claim to seek truth, but are blinded by their own presuppositions and biases.

[@drivesmecrazy1000]

They are not Christians. They are not even Mormons. In Doctrine and Covenants 115:4 we are told, "For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." They are literally "Latter Day Saints." This makes perfect sense. Why would you use the same name as all the heretics who didn't have the truth? Many LDS call themselves Christians, but it just goes to show you how little they know about their own foundational texts. Joseph Smith was adamant about turning his back on "Christianity."

[@LHJlives]

@@drivesmecrazy1000 we are Christians, we call ourselves Latter-day Saints because the Lord revealed it to us in the verse you shared. The Lord always referred to His followers as Saints, there are numerous examples of this throughout the Old and New Testaments. Latter-day refers to this time period being the latter-days as described in the Bible, or the time immediately preceding the Second Coming of Christ. We are not turning our back on Christianity and certainly not on the scriptures. This year the Church as a whole is studying the Doctrine and Covenants, next year is the Old Testament, then New, etc.

[@BOON70]

@Felix Wantanabe @Faye Lewis @drivesmecrazy1000 What I say to people that say I am not Christian because I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If you have all the different sects of Christianity on one street and start going to them you will find. That one teaches baptism is important while the other do not. They also have there different modes of baptism. Then you have the ones that believe the priesthood important while the others think it is not. Then you have the one that believes in resurrection while the others do not. Wouldn't that mean they all teach a different gospel? Would that also mean that teach a different Jesus? When someone says to me two things go through my mind one they haven't thought about this or two they are bias. So which one you?

[@markhoffman7437]

Sean what if I need help and want to have a conversation with you, how could I get in touch with you. I’ve been a member my entire life and so has my wife and our 7 children….

[@SeanMcDowell]

Hi Mark, email me through seanmcdowell.org. I’ll connect you with Eric. Happy to help and thanks for reaching out.

[@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181]

I pray for you, Mark & your wife & kids . . . I have friends that are wonderful people, respected in the community & love them dearly, & have been praying for them a couple decades - please, be strong in your search for the truth from God.

[@Hupernike45]

So, the question for mormons is, what is it they don't have to do because of the grace they receive?

[@supralogical]

"You don't hear the church leaders challenging the members to read the Bible all the way through." That is not accurate. There was a year (can't remember specifically the year), when the church leaders challenged the members to read the Bible all the way through. That was that year's challenge. I venture that percentage-wise, the LDS church has more people who have read the KJV all the way through than in the main-stream denominations.

[@LHJlives]

I think I remember that challenge too, from studies I’ve seen Latter-day Saints tend to score higher on biblical knowledge than most other categories except for Jews and Atheists if I remember right.

[@thomassenbart]

Gospel study rotates on a 4 year basis, between Book of Mormon, New Testament, Old Testament,(currently being taught) and Doctrine and Covenants.

[@marionchase-kleeves8311]

Every year for nearly 40 years. It never stops giving new insight.something new every day. The one year bible is a miracle for our day. Pick it up any day and the Holy Spirit will quicker it to your heart and mind.

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

In a Church of 17 million, you're bound to have some members who are unhappy for one reason or another. This is true for unhappy Evangelicals as well as "Mormons." BTW, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints continues to grow and thrive snd I'm proud and happy to be a member.

[@onibioh]

You all should be more than 17 million by now especially the fact that you are one of the few “churches” that ask young kids to pay to proselytize for the church.

[@3thingsfishing427]

It's growing in third world countries. This is predatory behavior as many in third world countries don't have access to information like those in first world countries. Issues such as DNA research, the impossibility of a 6,000 year old Earth, the impossibility of a global flood, etc.

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

@@3thingsfishing427 Your vanity is showing. Do you really believe the science and wisdom of the Western world is anything other than the "religion" of our society? Wise men still seek Him.

[@marionchase-kleeves8311]

As a Christian I am humbled by the zeal of the missionary movement of the Mormon Church. We will have to answer for our malaise

[@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181]

I'm sorry, your comment was 9 mos ago - Can you imagine what these people could do for spreading the True Gospel if they would "see the light"? We Christians could learn alot from them & would be shamed by our inactivity & compassion toward others. Unless they only show that face in public & are really evil in their home life!

[@nelhuiliztli2926]

I live in Utah, I should go talk to him, he seems nice. I have a friend who’s ex-mormon. She said she still believes in God, but rather not got to church, plus she’s married with an atheist who’s also a friend of mine.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

The reason I left the Mormon church is that they believe in a different God or Jesus. They are not a Christian religion. I was shocked, I was deceived, and left immediately.

[@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181]

God bless you!!!

[@Cuinn837]

I have been reading the Early Church Fathers, mostly literature that pre-dates the Council of Nicea. There is no indication in these works that a Great Apostasy ever happened.

[@Cuinn837]

@Oswald von Baden I enjoy learning from these old works, and I plan to keep reading them.

[@jasonvesmam7044]

book of revelations

[@azurephoenix9546]

It never happened, even according to mormon doctrine. 5 disciples of Jesus are still roaming the earth, the 3 nephites, someone else I forget who, and John, who is still proselytizing and converting souls, therefore no great apostasy could have occurred because there's still an apostle on the earth. However despite that, the gospel still needed to be restored. obviously. 🤪

[@Cuinn837]

@@azurephoenix9546 I was only taught about four disciples roaming the Earth. Where did the fifth come from?

[@azurephoenix9546]

@@Cuinn837 sorry! I was incorrect about disciples. there's 5 who are still roaming the earth, the 3 nephites, John and Cain, obviously Cain is not a disciple. Cain is my personal favourite though because of the story about how Cain is really Bigfoot from The Miracle of Forgiveness.

[@xXSirKRXx]

It was Gordon B Heinkly who said it may be a lie, A prophet when my mom started forcing me and my siblings into the church

[@arttyree4504]

Eric, does Mormonism Research produce any tracts, handouts, or other resources?

[@cathyphillips9120]

What are the most important questions to ask a Mormon missionary when they come to the door?

[@SeanMcDowell]

Check out Eric’s site MRM.org for help with this great question

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

Latter Day Saints know the Bible better than the other churches. How do you explain this?

[@Benita399]

No they don’t

[@arthouston7361]

There is one key element to determining what groups are religious cults, and that is what they say about Jesus. If they teach other than the Jesus of the Bible, a cult it is.

[@janedoe2399]

There are many people who leave but still have their name on the records. I know of 10 just in my own circle of ex- Mormon friends. Would love to know the REAL numbers!

[@azurephoenix9546]

my guess would be 5-6 million, tops. Back about 20 years ago or so, my bishop was lamenting that the actual numbers versus number of members on the rolls is about half across the board and that the general authorities were contemplating a change in policy. I suspect that's where the "every member a missionary" stuff came from back then. Now they're up in general conference saying that the grace of Jesus is enough in a desperate attempt to keep people who suddenly discovered that they aren't actually Christians. My sister has eluded to a program with a working title of "recalled to zion", the aim of which is to get "inactive members", those with their names still on the rolls, to come back to the church and potentially relaxing the rules around temple recommends, which will probably not bring anyone back but will more than likely may drive more people out who have kept themselves temple worthy all these years, just to watch all kinds of exceptions being made for everyone else under the "prodigal son" argument. again.

[@BOON70]

@@azurephoenix9546 Can't find this article recalled to zion... and how are we not Christians?

[@azurephoenix9546]

@@BOON70 if you believe you can become a God you are necessarily polytheist.

[@BOON70]

@@azurephoenix9546 You said, "if you believe you can become a God you are necessarily polytheist." This just shows me you don't know are doctrine as you try and claim.... Even if all Mormons became a God all the people of Earth and those that become a God from Earth would still worship the Father just like the rest of the people of the Earth. It amazes me how Anti's go blah blah but what they are teaching is opinions and false doctrine... not what we actually teach.

[@azurephoenix9546]

@@BOON70 it amazes me how you can't see that having billions of Gods who worship a head God isn't still polytheism.

[@stevenhenderson9005]

It's so strange, but when I woke up I looked around and realized the members of the LDS Church are under some trance.

[@Andreamom001]

So, men in the Mormon church can get to be god of a realm and populate it by relations with many women...what about women in the Mormon church...do they get to be godesses of a realm or just "wives" of a man who is god of a realm...why would women want that role...? Why would they stay in the church for that? I mean, I love being a mom and raising kids, but that sort of afterlife doesn't interest me.

[@coachmarc2002]

Constant pregnancy doesn't interest you 😜? The Mormon heavenly Father supposedly has a physical body and is the father of all the people of the Earth. That means he would have to impregnate seven women per minute in order to keep up with the birth rate of the United States alone. I'm not sure how that could be possible.

[@MapleBoarder78]

Details on the role of the goddess wife/wives isn’t directly found in popular Mormon literature as far as I’ve seen. It is left obscure and you will get different answers from different Mormons you talk with. The theology of Mormons getting their own planet and populating it with millions of babies comes from Mormon literature like this... “You will see the time when you will have millions of children around you. If you are faithful to your covenants, you will be mothers of nations. You will become Eves to earths like this, and when you have assisted in peopling one earth, there are millions of earths still in the course of creation.” Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 Page 208. Ultimately through polygamy, the hope of a Mormon man was to become a God of his own planet and have multiple goddesses to impregnate. The Journal of Discourses describes that the God of our planet has many wives. Polygamy was so sought after by the leadership of the church that members were told they would go to hell for not marrying multiple wives. It was engrained into young girls from childhood that they would be expected to be one of many wives in their marriage. “Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned.” Journal of Discourses Vol 3 Pg 266 “Every man in this church who has the ability to obey and practice it in righteousness and will not, shall be damned.” -Journal of Discourses Vol 20 Pg 31

[@zcs7676]

The father God's wife is considered a goddess but Mormons do not worship her

[@Andreamom001]

@@MapleBoarder78 Thanks. That's very informative. It seems like it is just the men who get to rule.

[@brettmajeske3525]

@@MapleBoarder78 Well, the Journal of Discourses has not been considered a reliable source of the LDS theology since its editor was excommunicated in 1878. There are certainly minority factions within LDS culture that may believe such things, but it is not found in any official doctrinal curriculum. The official doctrine is that worthy men may become co heirs with Christ as Gods and Kings. Women may become co heirs with Christ as Goddesses and Queens. The partnership of marriage is stressed as important in receiving Celestial Glory. Hope this helps understanding.

[@darlenemartim9972]

Every time I hear people trying to talk about doctrine it’s always defensive I’m Not defensive talking about other faiths I don’t believe?

[@stonefallknives5518]

Eric Johnson on another video said to come here to see if he got anything wrong because he is so accurate and knowledgeable. His first display ignorance comes up at 2 minutes and 4 seconds. The topics he mentions as "weren't talked about or known". The church was making many films and cassette tape sets that could be borrowed from chapels covering all these topics. If the first thing he states isn't true, his 40 years of research is a hilarious story. 5 minutes in he has multiple extremely simple things wrong, 40 years................ just wow.

[@aservantofJEHOVAH7849]

Numbers23:19KJV"God is not a man,that he should lie;nor the son of man,that he should repent..."Thus if ones God is now or was ever a man,he is not the GOD of the bible.

[@mimked]

What about Jesus Christ's mortal ministry? Or is Jesus different from the biblical God?

[@frenchtoast2319]

Jehovah is not in the Bible. The Hebrews do not have a ‘J’ sound in their language.

[@stacyB783]

I want to thank you for this. I am a Christian and believe completely in the Bible and it’s teachings but am not a part of any specific denomination as it seems they all seem to be flawed in some way. I have recently really been looking into the Mormon religion because honestly they seem like some of the nicest people and to be Christlike which has become one of my biggest goals. To walk in love and do as Jesus would and act in love. I guess I will just have to continue to pray to God asking him to lead me to the proper church.

[@SeanMcDowell]

You bet!

[@WhereWhatHuh]

Hi, Stacy. You are correct that Mormons tend to be wonderful people. But Jesus tells us that there will be people who believe they are doing great things for God, but Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you." Matt. 7:22-23 ... Mormons believe that they are working towards their exaltation, and that is, in part, why they work so hard to be such good people. Not to take anything away from them: They are wonderful people. But works will not lead into Salvation, nor into exaltation.

[@quacks2much]

Praying won't help. What will help is to study and think logically? If something looks too good to be true, it usually is. If a Mormon tells you something, ask an ex-Mormon, then weight the evidence from both. I did taxes, and we were trained how to pretend to care about people. Much of Mormonism does the same type thing, but they convince you that they are being genuine. Pretend to be righteous even if you aren't. If they pretend to be Christians, they, “as every Mormon a missionary,” will show the world how nice they are. Its a ploy to suck you in. Being “nice” is not a sign of truth. In Mormonism, much “niceness” is for the ulterior motives of the church to get converts.

[@WhereWhatHuh]

@@quacks2much Many cults use this tactic. It is called the "Love Bomb." When you show interest, they bombard you with affection and caring. If you show less interest, or say that you want to think independently, then the love bomb turns into a cold shoulder. Of course you do not wish to be ignored, or shunned, and you don't want to think that you have offended them ... so you tend to revert to the actions that led them to "Love bomb" you.

[@LHJlives]

How has your search been going? I’m glad you’re looking into our Church, being a member of Christ’s Church has been an incredible blessing in my life. We are not just Christ-centered, we are Christ-obsessed. Just reading the Book of Mormon alone shows that. Some title referring to Jesus is used on average every 1.7 verses and over 100 different titles are used. We try to follow Christ as best we can but the members are not perfect. My wife likes to describe our Church like a hospital, all people are sick so they come into it to get better. Christ is the master healer. A much-loved song we teach our children is a song called “I’m trying to be like Jesus”, here are its simple lyrics: I’m trying to be like Jesus; I’m following in his ways. I’m trying to love as he did, in all that I do and say. At times I am tempted to make a wrong choice, But I try to listen as the still small voice whispers, [Chorus] “Love one another as Jesus loves you. Try to show kindness in all that you do. Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought, For these are the things Jesus taught.” 2. I’m trying to love my neighbor; I’m learning to serve my friends. I watch for the day of gladness when Jesus will come again. I try to remember the lessons he taught. Then the Holy Spirit enters into my thoughts, saying: [Chorus] “Love one another as Jesus loves you. Try to show kindness in all that you do. Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought, For these are the things Jesus taught.” If you have any questions please feel free to ask away!

[@DiscerningDad]

Such a great discussion and I learned so much! Thank you

[@anselman3156]

1:04:44 The last twelves verses of Mark are authentic, and well attested in the history of the Church. Read for example John William Burgon, an expert in textual studies.

[@IAmisMaster]

9:45 The Bible plainly teaches grace is God's enabling power to keep His commandments and overcome hardship, yet Eric Johnson repeatedly denies this truth. He is the one who changed the definition of grace along with his false teachers from the 16th century. "But he said to me, “ *My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness* .” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me." - 2 Corinthians 12:9 (ESV) " *I thank him who has given me strength* , Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, 13though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, *14and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus* ." - 1 Timothy 1:12-14 (ESV) These passages plainly prove grace is God's power that enabled Paul to overcome hardship, temptation, and to have faith and love God. Johnson does not teach the gospel of Christ; rather, he teaches the false gospel of Luther and Calvin.

[@kentthalman4459]

As the years pass, member's views about the Church and their historical claims continue to evolve.

[@IvyLeather13]

Eric leaves out a huge point on the whole concept of grace. If I came to believe monotheism is true and accept Jesus as my savior, do I have to stop identifying as a woman and force myself on hormones to return to my assigned male at birth status? I imagine he would say that yes I would be obligated. His definition of grace here to trap Mormons is far more broad than I think he would affirm.

[@austyn5004]

You are made in the image of God, when you're born. So yes, you're obligated to live in the body you were given. God's grace is Him forgiving your mistake and allowing you to join Him in Heaven.

[@merc8es]

If Truth became important to you, you might find yourself making decisions that reflect truth.

[@jaquino451]

Kimbal preached against inter racial marriage. And its in some.of their literature.

[@Calatriste54]

Repentance. (with sincerity and humility)

[@joenelson5819]

I am one of ten, only 3 of my siblings still believe in Mormonism. Which is, 30%. That Matches the church attendance as of now. 30% of Mormons actually go to church.

[@matthewphillips3926]

Eric’s mic is from 1981

[@davidbelcher7097]

The parallels between Mormonism and Islam are staggering. I'm interested in the spiritual influence upon both Islam and Moronism. Is the same spirit influencing these institute of theses religions just being played out in different cultures.

[@zcs7676]

How do think they are the same?

[@coachmarc2002]

@@zcs7676 both were started by supposed visitations from angels revealing new scripture. Both promoted multiple wives. Both teach members to doubt the accurate transmission of the Bible over the centuries.

[@colleenjohnstoncomedy3036]

Yes . The devil. Lynn Wilder spoke about this a little look her up

[@zcs7676]

I was asking the commenter. I don't have any interest in hearing what somebody else says. I know what both religions say. Thanks

[@colleenjohnstoncomedy3036]

@@zcs7676 I actually meant this comment for david not you, thanks

[@aservantofJEHOVAH7849]

Hebrews6:13KJV"For when God made promise to Abraham,because he could swear by no greater,he sware by himself." Here we see that God the Father swears by himself because he can swear by no greater. In the trinitarian universe this must mean that the trinity itself is not superlative (it not being greater than any of its members). Thus not even the is the Lord JEHOVAH the bible see psalms83:18

[@davidward5225]

One word - “cult”

[@LoveYourNeighbour.]

Two words - "counterfeit gospel"

[@themessengertv2108]

3 words- "I've seen a few Christian congregations closer to a cult than them". 😬Oops...(back to 3 words) "Stop hatin bro" "Love like Eric"

[@albusai]

@@themessengertv2108 teaching that you’ll be as gods ??? 🤔

[@BOON70]

@@albusai What is wrong with that it is taught in the Bible Ps 82:6

[@thebarefoothipster8718]

Hey Sean do you know where I can get a book of Mormon before they made adjustments to it?

[@coachmarc2002]

Utah Lighthouse Ministries has a photo reprint bound version of the original 1830 Book of Mormon called Joseph Smith Begins his Work. Check out the website utlm.org utlm.org/booklist/titles/josephsmithbeginshisworkvol1_xb071.htm

[@Lukesh30253]

I have one and I made a chain reference in it ! Also get the Mormon scrap book it will help anyone

[@krav247]

www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/1

[@krav247]

1830's book of Mormon. 1 Nephi 3, p. 25* Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh. www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/31 1 Nephi 3, p. 25 And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father! www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/31 1 Nephi 3, p. 26 And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world. www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/32 1 Nephi 3, p. 32 These last records…shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world. www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/38 2 Nephi 30:6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people. www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/123 Ether 4:1 and for this cause did king Benjamin keep them www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/552 Mosiah 21:28 the name of the king has been changed from Benjamin to Mosiah. king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/206 According to chronology found in the Book of Mormon, king Benjamin should have been dead at this time; I'm guessing the Mormon Church leaders most likely felt that it was best to change the king's name to Mosiah. 3 Nephi 22:4 for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. For thy Maker, thy husband, The Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he [p. 501] www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/507 Nephi Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord ... www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-mormon-1830/58

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks for the responses here!

[@midimusicforever]

Mormonism distorts who God is!

[@joenelson5819]

1:10:06 these days they will say that Jesus is the creator God. That’s what a missionary told me.

[@kainmrcoax2275]

Pretty biased discussion in my opinion. I think it would have been nice to see an actual Mormon to report on the mormon belief... I think someone like Alonzo Gaskill would have done quite well in this setting... Anyway. I respect you both and the things said were pretty accurate good work.

[@joenelson5819]

41:06 if black people are from Lucifer? Are they part of the fallen angels??

[@carolledger8047]

Gordon B Hinkley was the most honest man I've ever met. Saying that there haven't been a really honest leader in the LDS religion is ridiculous.

[@joenelson5819]

23:20 the Mormons point to some verses in the Bible that talks about gods with a little g

[@vincemervyn6834]

Sean I have only recently been watching a few of your videos which I find very interesting. You speak about bringing Micah Wilders and his parents on to your show and I do not want to miss it. When is this planned for?

[@glendagaskin6002]

Do you know how to get an answer to your question?

[@45s262]

This video was made almost 2 years ago. About 3 years ago we have publicly asked that the correct name of the church and its members be used. Please give us the respect we've so kindly requested.. thanks

[@jesswillans3222]

I’m afraid that they purposely avoid the official name, because that would make it harder for them to continue to claim we’re Christian. As apologists for their own faith. I would also expect them to have the respect to speak to a believing Latter-day Saint scholar. Or at the very least, learn from the very best LDS scholars and address our best theological understandings, rather than “debunking” straw man arguments. I could certainly logically walk them through LDS cosmology and how well it works with the very best modern religious philosophy,. And Stephen Meyer’s latest scientific research that points to God. Real LDS theology fits these latest scientific discoveries better than their own theology. But what bothers me the most is their doubling down on how we’re not Christian. When I did my masters degree from the largest Christian university in the world, Liberty, we were required to use the Bible along with the best secular scholarship. I was always thought of as the best Bible thinker in my cohort. I was especially familiar with the specific Bible passages that explained Christ’s atonement as taught in the Book of Mormon. It was astounding the way my classmates articulated the way their personal relationship with Christ had skyrocketed based on Book of Mormon theology regarding the atonement and the relational covenant of grace. Other than a very few, most people did not know my church affiliation but they all considered me as being genuinely close to Christ. They assumed I was just an amateur Bible expert, unaware that I got my Christ centered theology from the Book of Mormon, but was able to confirm it in the Bible. But neither I or they could come to that from the Bible alone. I have faith in and a strong covenant relationship with the Biblical Christ, because of the Book of Mormon. And yes I would likely go back to being an atheist if I stopped believing in the restored gospel, because LDS theology is more full, more profound and logical than any other theological system. If they would want me to give up my faith in Christ, then they’re not true Christians. That said, I don’t deny any of the major problems the LDS really does have. that has nothing to do with my Book of Mormon/ Biblical relationship to Christ which endows me with His covenant grace. Despite only being partially correct in their critique of Joseph Smith, it nevertheless would be like them trying to undermine the Christ centered faith of Liberty University students, because of Falwell’s scandal. If they read this and would like to actually dialogue with a Latter-day Saint, I could arrange that. I say this as someone who really does respect McDowell as a person and as a brother in Christ! It would be nice to receive that respect in return, but I’ll be ok either way and continue to watch content on this channel anyway for the actual Christlike way that Sean blesses the world with what he does. Also the reason I can maintain my respect for him and not be offended is specifically because of my relationship with Christ.

[@rickdavis2235]

Grow wrote: " This video was made almost 2 years ago. About 3 years ago we have publicly asked that the correct name of the church and its members be used. Please give us the respect we've so kindly requested.. thanks " Do you not remember the national ad campaign called, "I'M A MORMON" that was plastered all over city buses, billboards and national television for about 10 years? I don't use the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because it's not the church of Christ Jesus and that can be demonstrably proven with Scripture.

[@carolledger8047]

That is not Mormon. We do not have or want more than one husband or wife.

[@thatonechristian2487]

Joseph Smith practiced polyamory, though. Just because modern Latter-Day Saints don’t practice it doesn’t mean it’s first prophet didn’t. So that really doesn’t matter, because the guy who started the church DID want multiple wives.

[@merc8es]

Except in the afterlife, which is what he said.

[@joenelson5819]

11:54 Moroni 10:32 also

[@aservantofJEHOVAH7849]

Psalms83:18KJV" That men may know that thou,whose name alone is JEHOVAH,art the MOST HIGH over all the earth." Note please that there is but one named JEHOVAH. Note also that this one is the MOST HIGH. Thus if ones God is associated with two equals he is not JEHOVAH.

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

I believe an angel visited Joseph Smith- an angel from hell

[@tannerbuckley2037]

Mormons have 3 gods sharing on office "God" they are always changing. They are from everlasting to everlasting but have a beginning as well....

[@mimked]

Always changing?

[@tannerbuckley2037]

@@mimked yeah, always changing his, mind, their minds?........ modern prophets call for modern solutions? I said homosexuality was bad back then but I am changing that, I know I said necromancy is an abomination buuut Im changing that too, I know I said temples were to be built to exact patterns but I am changing that...... you know? A god that is always changing..... Their Doctrine.....they have a doctrine about their 3 different gods that is always changing.

[@mimked]

@@tannerbuckley2037 do they now think that homosexuality is "good"? (If it was "bad" before, and now it is changed, then is it "good"?) What do you mean by "necromancy"?

[@tannerbuckley2037]

@@mimked I think you are missing my point. GOD, "THE" GOD, He never changes. We are on the same page about that, yes? Where Mormons worship 3 Gods that are always changing their attributes...... These specific topics are not the core of my statement, a changing god is. The God of the Bible NEVER LIES and EVERYTHING happens exactly the way He says it will. Where The Mormons 3 gods, make mistakes, change doctrines and forget what they say...... Do you understand what I am saying? That these are different Gods? To answer your necromancy question, just google the definition, and then look in the law of Moses and see if God says anything about communication with familiar spirits or sorcery or divination...... bump that up with what Mormons do in their temples...... the "temple work", baptisms for the dead....... they are doing LOTS OF STUFF IN THOSE BUILDINGS FOR THE DEAD. It always astounds me that Mormons claim to believe the Old Testament, but in the Old Testament God says that Joseph and his whole family are abominations to Him because of their occult practices in divination....... A Mormon has to reconcile that when God was establishing "His people" on the earth (Moses) He gave them specific instructions, commandments rather, about what to do with divination, sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, communication with familiar spirits........(Mormons know about familiar spirits) and then some 3000 years later god changed his mind and decided to restore a gospel through a boy whose family was doing the very thing that God said was an abomination...... Its crazy.

[@tannerbuckley5600]

@@cabarete2003 yep. Lots of times. But like EVERY HUMAN it depends on the topic.

[@45s262]

If there is salvation by grace alone and not of ourselves then salvation and damnation is predetermined by God. And this life is on auto pilot. Or there is no damnation at all, only grace. Our God is then a respector of persons. This is your doctrine. None have free will to act or ability choose liberty . Because if you act in faith and in deed you will be guilty of pride , therefore you die? Here's an alternative, we act in faith in Jesus Christ and our actions confirm our faith is true, but our accusers have falsely judged our hearts and say within themselves you are boastful and full of pride..

[@fayelewis5476]

It is the height of arrogance to think that you, a mere sinful, fallen created being, could ever become a god. Imagine drywall and stucco thinking they can become the builder. Imagine a painting thinking it can become the painter. Imagine a bird, tree, fish, sun, moon and stars, human beings thinking they can become their Creator. It is the height of arrogance to say that Christ's death on the cross was not sufficient to pay the penalty for your sin and that everyone must also believe that: Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God. The Book of Mormon is true. There is salvation only in the LDS church. You must tithe to the LDS church You must go through a 'worthiness' interview. Confess your sins to a bishop, who in nowise can forgive them. Get a temple recommend. Go through a masonic Endowment Ceremony Put on Lucifer's power and priesthood. Learn secret passwords, hand shakes, grips, tokens, etc. Get married. Wear temple garments. Baptize for the dead. Do family history. Do callings etc. ****** Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day. The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty. Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you have done for God. It is because of who He is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it. Salvation is quite simple. Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[@fayelewis5476]

God is not a respecter of persons. God in his infinite omniscience already knows who will accept him and who will reject him. No one in hell will ever be able to say that they don't deserve to be there. The rich man in hell was not one whit remorseful. Luke 16 God gives you a choice. You are a moral agent. You are responsible. "God commands all men everywhere to repent." "If you sincerely drink poison, it will kill you: if you sincerely cut your throat, you will die. If you sincerely believe a lie, you will suffer the consequences. You must not only be sincere, but you must be right."

[@allencushmen8352]

This is just like Satan to cause confusion .

[@brucemoose926]

Mitt Romney should see this video.

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

Mitt would rather believe he is a god

[@mimked]

I would be quite surprised if Mitt Romney hadn't heard of much of thoug these items.

[@RichardHolmes-ll8ii]

Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.

[@smb123211]

The problem is not that the church has no answers but that these answers are so convoluted, unintentionally hilarious, irrelevant and (always) disagree with experts. What I can't understand are those who finally realize, "Oh, the LDS has a questionable past and BOM has errors, contradictions, anachronisms, bad history, bad science and is obviously written by man" . They they say, "So I'll be a Christian with the BIble that is guilty of the same things." LOL Pew conducted a religious survey of all groups. of the 32 questions, atheists scored highest (21), Mormons (20) and white Christians (16). This ignorance allows Christians to "mix it up" - combine the two Creation stories, the contradictory Ten Commandments, the contradictory Nativities, the contradictory Gospels, the contradictory Resurrections. They accept the unhistorical "Acts" over the actual writings of Paul. In other words, ignorance makes faith easier which is probably a good thing in that few would go to the trouble of learning the basics of even their own religion.

[@floridasingularity3700]

I jump out of my chair every time Eric starts speaking.

[@Formerlyknownas7435]

Why's that?

[@floridasingularity3700]

@@Formerlyknownas7435 because when the host speaks, it’s at a one volume. Then Eric begins at 50 times the volume. He seems to level off a bit and I adjust my volume, but then I have to turn it back up for Sean. Then the cycle starts again. Eric just has a strong voice and may not be aware of self-modulation.

[@Formerlyknownas7435]

@@floridasingularity3700 oh ok lol

[@bbctons1238]

Those are deadly eternal words “ if the church is not true , nothing else is..” The devil really did a deadly statement here! They say if the “ Mormon Masonic is not true , if we “ apostles “ don’t say the true , if you are not a Mormon” you are not saved . Therefore the words of the lord Jesus means NOTHING TO THEM! Jesus is the true Mormons ! No any congregation, no cult of anything, no science, not the Mother Nature , not rituals in the Mormon church . Is Jesus and Jesus of the Bible ALONE! Listen to him through his word ! John 10:27-28 King James Version 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 8:31-33 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

[@carolledger8047]

The people who are polligimists aren't Mormons. They were excommunicated from the church! They have they're own church. It is a different name.

[@merc8es]

Did you not watch the video? He says the truth that there is still afterlife polygamy in Mormon belief. Which is true.

[@carolledger8047]

Eric Johnson is not correct. I'm not saying he's lying, I'm just saying he's wrong.

[@merc8es]

All of this is absolutely true.

[@DPM917]

How is Mormonism any more credible than Scientology? The former was started by a guy named Joe, a proven con man. The later by a guy named Ron, a science fiction writer. Millions across the globe have bought into these religions. Use the same analytical (skeptical) thinking and standard of evidence you employ to assess the truth claims of these religions to your own.

[@eugenefaber7638]

I was hoping for a genuine Mormon discussion, but it looks to be just another Mormon bashing session.

[@franciscocepeda8416]

No cult has ever been successfully defensible and this one is no different 👎

[@6.0hhh]

Sean I bet you could have a great discussion with a gentleman by the name of "Kwaku El" who is a Mormon and has done several debates. He's young and I think you would be really good in a discussion with him.

[@truthbebold4009]

He's very childish. If he was representing my beliefs I would strongly rebuke him for his unChrist-like behavior. I should rebuke him regardless because he claims to be a representative of Christ Jesus.

[@tannerbuckley2037]

I am not a mormon anymore but if I was I would not want this arrogant young man arguing for me..... He was a fool when he debated apologia.

[@6.0hhh]

@@tannerbuckley2037 Yeah i know. He shows no humility at all.

[@mimked]

@@6.0hhh lack of humility is all too common among much of Christianity.

[@frenchtoast2319]

@@mimked Christianity is built upon humility.

[@nute742]

Good points. There is definitely a difference between (1) Salvation ("free gift - for everyone" regardless of belief or actions) and (2) Exhalation - blessing for those do their best (3 kingdoms as per bible, etc). Many get these concepts confused. Good thing (as per LDS faith) everyone on whole world (that ever lived) - will get a chance for the better option (due to agency, faith, good works + ordinances). Its a matter of God gives you what you really want. All the prophets of old had to make sacrifices (Abraham, Moses, etc) We must be willing to make personal sacrifices too and bear our own crosses, so to speak. A great scripture is "We will send them down and prove them in "all things".) In the end we get what we really want. (But all are given - or will be given that chance)! I don't know of an other philosophy, religion other than the "Fairness + justice" of God that would give it to all His children (and not just for a particular region). Of course unless that is taught through God's true church (which is another way to say it). Anyway interesting video and food for thought.

[@anselman3156]

Your argument about the agreement with the King James Bible is very weak. It could be argued that that was God's endorsement of the accuracy of the King James translation. In your recommendation of ESV and NIV , you are evidently prejudiced against the KJV, and you would do well to study the arguments in its favour as being a more accurate translation, with a better textual basis than the modern versions.

[@10rattys]

Fight against God and it won t end well for you. Ask the Jewish people. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[@markbirch6760]

The both of you do not no what you are talking about..and why do Christians attack what other people believe in..Jesus never done this...His way is to teach..he never taught to attack with lies

[@cedricfarquharson5842]

I usually enjoy your interviews Sean but I think you made a boo boo this time. I'm always suspicious of religious people who slag off other people's beliefs. What is their motivation? What makes them so sure their own beliefs are perfect? I'm hoping (in the interests of fairness) you'll have someone on who can either rebut or put in context Johnson's claims.

[@thomassenbart]

It would be more honest and just to have someone on the program who will give a defense of the issues raised, rather than a takedown, without any opposition or pushback. This basically is just more Mormon bashing, which is unfortunate.

[@SeanMcDowell]

We had that discussion next with a member of the LDS church and Eric. It’s on my KZbin channel. I’d caution from concluding that critiquing ideas equals “Mormon bashing.”

[@thomassenbart]

@@SeanMcDowell Certainly critiquing ideas is not bashing however, giving a single sided, uniformly negative, appraisal clearly approaches that very easily.

[@thatonechristian2487]

@@thomassenbart He doesn’t say anything particularly bad about Mormons, though? He’s just criticizing their doctrines and bringing the numerous problems that plague the church. It’s not bashing.

[@thomassenbart]

@@thatonechristian2487 If you give a one-sided opinion, you are in the realm of bashing. Not quite but close.

[@thatonechristian2487]

@@thomassenbart So if somebody makes a video and gives only their opinion on something, it’s practically bashing? I hardly think so, and I don’t think this video is overly harsh towards Mormons. It could have been MUCH harsher

[@dleoburns]

The Gospel Topics Essays are not the doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The doctrine/scripture of the Church is contained in the Standard Works of the Church which includes the Authorized King James Version of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants of the Church, and Pearl of Great Price. Revelations to the Prophet are unanimously sustained by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Then presented to the general membership of the Church for sustaining. It is then published in the Standard Works. This is called "common consent" within the Church. Doctrine & Covenants 26:2 "And all things shall be done by common consent in the church, by much prayer and faith, for all things you shall receive by faith. Amen." Much of what you are saying is not found in the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Do we believe we will become Gods? The King Follett Sermon is not contained in the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is what Joseph Smith, Jr. revealed about those worthy of exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. Doctrine & Covenants 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." This is consistent with Psalm 82:6 (AKJV) "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" In the original King James Version and all Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint scripture deity is recognized by capitalizing the first letter in "God."

[@dleoburns]

Did Joseph Smith, Jr. practice polygamy? "The first publication of a list of women alleged to be Smith's plural wives was in 1887, by Andrew Jenson, an assistant LDS Church historian. It included 27 women besides Emma Smith.[6] There are currently 49 women on this list. However, historians disagree as to the number and identity of the plural wives Smith had. Various scholars and historians, including Fawn M. Brodie, George D. Smith,[7] and Todd Compton, have attempted to identify the women who married Smith.[8] The discrepancy is created by the lack of documents to support some of the alleged marriages. As Compton has stated, for many of these marriages, "absolutely nothing is known of [the] marriage after the ceremony."[9] Apart from his marriage to Emma, Smith's marriages were not solemnized under any civil authority and were therefore solely religious unions." [Wikipedia/List of Joseph Smith's wives/Introduction] There are two principles taught in Doctrine & Covenants 132. They are eternal marriages and plural wives (polygyny). Polyandry is not taught anywhere in the doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! If so, please reference.

[@dleoburns]

Why could black men not hold the priesthood? Genesis 9:24 (AKJV) "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant." Pearl of Great Price/Abraham 1:26 "Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood." The Canaanites were cursed by Noah, Canaan's Grandfather, as pertaining to the priesthood. Pearl of Great Price/Moses 7:8 "For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people." Black men who are worthy may now receive the priesthood!

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

A moving target that goes along with what is acceptable in culture. Soon LDS will have gay priests. It so easy to tell if a religion is a cult- does it change????? If so- stay away. Gold plates, magic,,.... Magic is always from hell. Power is from heaven

[@dleoburns]

@@BuenasNoticiasdeIL: Were there any changes from the Old Covenant of the Old Testament and the New Covenant of the New Testament? Food: Leviticus 11:2 (AKJV) "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. 3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. 4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you." 1 Corinthians 10:25 "Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. 27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof: 29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?" Much of the Mosaic Law had been fulfilled and no longer was followed. You can not as a Christian say there is no change in what you observe as a commandment.

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

@@dleoburns that is all scripture. Good job!!! But mormons have changed ONCE their "scripture" has been finalized. So many "scriptures" that contradict

[@ivaxnog6157]

Brad Wilcox famous talk "grace is sufficient"

[@cc-mk2hp]

Mormon Third Article of Faith. We are saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

[@ivaxnog6157]

@@cc-mk2hp third article of faith. Mormon, "your quoting" ... . The insideout song in Parse Your Sheet Togheter i think

[@hollon1697]

This video isn’t based on facts. Joseph Smith was a true prophet and the church is true, cuz feelings

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

😆 the heart is deceiving. Did you listen to the show????

[@hollon1697]

@@BuenasNoticiasdeIL sarcasm hahaha

[@richardholmes7199]

Why do you duplicates criticize Mormons?

[@toducate]

Wow. A series of “facts” with little context, over-simplification, and a lot of “they hid this for years” conspiracy thinking. I’ve studied these issues for years and found this summation as poor and non-charitable. I pray other’s faith is never given this cheap summation of difficult topics. For example, watch and count how many time he says something like, “well, this is what the average Mormon believed.” or “the church didn’t want people to know about this.” Such cheap techniques throughout that give everything a tone of conspiracy, corruption, and cultism. I hope what you hold dear doesn’t get this tainted treatment.

[@fayelewis5476]

The later teachings of Joseph Smith contradicted the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon contradicts the Doctrine and Covenants.

[@GuitarJesse7]

Dear Todd, I’d say your characterization of this video is “poor and non-charitable.” Eric actually gave credit to the LDS church several times for coming clean about certain things. Also, you clearly didn’t like the video, but I haven’t seen you refute a single point they make. I wonder why? Perhaps because all the issues they brought up are accurate and as they pointed out, have in many cases been admitted by LDS. Also, no amount of “context” can make these issues go away- Joseph Smith’s sexual immorality, church leaders’ racism, Mormon teachings in clear contradiction to the Bible, the “golden” tablets, Joseph Smith’s phony “translation” of the Egyptian material or his “translation” of the Bible, the DNA evidence against the Native Americans having Semitic origins... Again, instead of complaining that these men supposedly didn’t represent things well, why don’t you give a concrete example and evidence to the contrary. I’m not trying to attack you, just challenging your lack refutation of what they presented. Are you LDS? Either way I pray you see it for what it is...false. Thankfully the actual Word of God is cohesive and there is plenty of history and archaeology to validate the claims of orthodox Christian beliefs.

[@toducate]

@@GuitarJesse7 Thanks for the comment. My earlier comment wasn't aimed at being a point-by-point refutation. Just my personal opinion that the video interview was poorly done for the reasons I stated. Nothing more. Thanks for sharing *your* opinions about all the points you brought up about the LDS church. Like me, you didn't offer proof of every claim you made above. Probably, because this is a simple comment forum and not a good place for point-by-point refutation or a place to put evidence behind every claim. If it were, well, then we both failed. :) I'm sure you're a nice guy and we'd probably get along if we met in person. Thanks again.

[@quacks2much]

A Christian saying Mormonism is not defensible is the pot calling the Kettle black. Neither religion is defensible. No religions are defensible.

[@rickraybourn7456]

"Joseph Smith's Changing View of God" with Grant Palmer kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXzTiqKDfKikpqc

[@BaconCruiser]

As an exmo, yep 100%. Once I unraveled Mormonism and started studying The Documentary Hypothesis and Biblical Higher Criticism, it only took a short amount of time to see how laughable Christianity is as a whole.

[@quacks2much]

@@BaconCruiser I became convinced Mormonism was inconsistent with Christianity. That helped me get out of Mormonism. I didn't stop my investigation, however. I basically used the same criteria for Christianity and Mormonism, and rejected Christianity too because it didn't hold up to critical thinking much more than Mormonism does.

[@BuenasNoticiasdeIL]

Religion doesnt save... But Jesus does.

[@cabarete2003]

And Mormons only say hey...here's the message...and here's how to find out it is true. And you are right...if you have the truth...no need to defend it. These guys are so worried about the success of LDS missionaries and the growth of the church in comparison the droves that are leaving the Protestant churches has them scared.

[@jmfhsmith4923]

The Algonquian Indians not only speak around 25% Hebrew but their DNA is around 25% Haplogroup X which originates in the middle east and dates back to the start of The Book Of Mormon in America. They lived north of the place where the great last (Book Of Mormon) battle took place; where the dark skinned Lamanites drove the white skinned Nephites (or Hopewell Indians) north. The Algonquian helped modern day Israelites restore lost traditions and symbolisms (Missing Links Of Their Heritage) to their people. In return, Israelites gave them land in the old world. A wealth of Linguistic and other massive data that tie Algonquian in north east America to ancient Israel was collected by many non-Mormon Professors who knew little to nothing about The Church. In 2 Nephi 29 it says And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also. Read 2 Nephi 29. There is way too much evidence for The Book Of Mormon to hide or counter act all of it.

[@MapleBoarder78]

The Algonquian Indians speaking Hebrew has been debunked by multiple websites including Native Languages.org. Also, the DNA debate linking Native Americans to the ancient Israelites is inconclusive for or against positing a link between the two. Even pro Mormon sites like Fair Mormon.org have admitted, “With no evidence that modern Jewish mtDNA constitutes a valid control of the genetics of ancient Israel-and considerable evidence to the contrary-claims of Israelite lineage cannot be either confirmed or denied based on mtDNA data.” To post what you did about the language and genetic links between the two as facts is highly misleading and disingenuous if you have done any research outside pro Mormon literature. “They lived north of the place where the great last (Book of Mormon) battle took place” “The Algonquian helped modern day Israelites restore lost traditions.” Would love to see citations and references to substantiate these claims... “There is way to much evidence for the Book of Mormon to hide or counteract all of it.” I would disagree. On the contrary, Archaeological and Geographical evidence for the Book of Mormon is shockingly lacking, not to mention direct contradictions in theology to actual Christianity. The history of the Mormon Church in regards to racism, polygamy, and much more is disturbing and appalling including teaching that Church members would go to hell for not practicing polygamy and the death penalty for a white person to sleep with a colored person. For more info check out my KZbin video called, “Why Didn’t I Become Mormon”. Praying that the Holy Spirit can open your eyes to the false teachings of the Mormon Church. God Bless.

[@pavld335]

oh c'mon

[@jmfhsmith4923]

@@MapleBoarder78, I watched an Anti-Mormon video a while back talking about things Mormons don't want you to know, something like that anyway. The very first thing on the list was Mormons don't want you to know that God said all churches are an abomination. And you know what? I, as a missionary know that thing is in the very first discussion. How stupid for everyone who watched that video and believe it. I always look more for evidence that comes from non-Mormon sources anyway, even if quoted by so-called Mormons. I always see half truths or worse from anti-Mormon fact checkers. LOL. It builds my testimony even more. You prey on the week minded and spiritually weak. It's not easy to be a Saint and so many people seek for reasons not to believe. Think about the future of your work Man! What will be the consequence for the pleasure of misleading and kicking people when there already lost or spiritually down? Truth is hard to find. Would you block the last light in this world as it shined? Why not go debunk anti-Mormon lies instead of what you wish were Mormon lies? I just let people have all the information so they can pray and decide. Encourage them to read everything including the Book Of Mormon and pray about it, because with all the misinformation it's the most sure way they can know for most people anyway.

[@jaquino451]

That's none sense DNA evidence itself proves that's nonsense.

[@jmfhsmith4923]

@@jaquino451, Dishonest people can manipulate data to tell you any story they want to tell you. One GREAT thing about The LDS Church is they don't teach blind faith. They promise sure knowledge to those who do all they can within reason to find out the truth about things. They wouldn't even desire anyone to take their word or anything unless that person wasn't spiritually strong enough at present to gain the level of truth desired by that individual. Face it, we have all been there. But other Churches or political organizations want to shift data around to fit their point and expect you to trust their word or sited source as gospel regardless of what The Holy Ghost would confirm to an individual as truth with no doubt. Spirit to Spirit. They found a middle eastern DNA in America that fits The Book Of Mormon Timeline just fine in north east US and now Anti-Mormons are trying hard to find ways to attack it. But when you start to see 1,000s upon 1,000s or evidence pile and pile up and you see Anti-Mormons work hard to attack 1,000s upon 1,000s of things, well it's very funny and sad at the same time. I'm crying and laughing at the same time! What about all the cities all over north east USA? Why do they all seem to have motes dug up around them? Because The BOM says the Nephites dug up great banks of earth around all their cities. Why else. Can Anti-Mormons explain why all these discovered cities have these motes? Did Joe Smith also travel all over the north east USA to make sure they all had them before He pup that in The BOM. Haaaaaaaaaahahahah!!!! He already couldn't have done all the 1,000s upon 1,000s crazy things anti-Mormons would have to clam He did to orchestrate all the things they say pulse what we know he did historically, without God's help. Don't forget my Anti-Mormon friend, that there are lot's of conflicting DNA evidence too because of corruption in high places.