Is nationalism ever a force for good? | Jared Diamond | Big Think

Is nationalism ever a force for good?
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Nationalism isn't always a bad thing. When a country doesn't have self-confidence, and a collective sense of identity, that is also a problem. The optimal situation, in the case of nationalism, is that a nation's citizens have a healthy amount of it.
For instance, as Jared Diamond points out in this video, Finland seems to have a nationalism based in reality - and largely founded on their unique language. It imbues them with an innate pride but doesn't compel them to conquer the world.
Also, nationalism that is used to be inclusive, rather than exclusive, can help a nation transcend its darkest moments.
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JARED DIAMOND
Jared Diamond, a noted polymath, is Professor of Geography at the University of California, Los Angeles. Among his many awards are the U.S. National Medal of Science, Japan's Cosmos Prize, a MacArthur Foundation Fellowship, a Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction, and election to the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. He is the author of the international best-selling books Guns, Germs, and Steel; Collapse; Why Is Sex Fun?; The World Until Yesterday; and The Third Chimpanzee, and is the presenter of TV documentary series based on three of those books.
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TRANSCRIPT:
JARED DIAMOND: What about nationalism for a country? Is it good or is it harmful? Well, that's like asking about self-confidence and ego strength for a person. If a person has confidence and ego strength, is that good or bad? You can have too much of it and it's harmful if you are so full of yourself that you ignore other people. If, on the other hand, you lack confidence and you depend upon other people for your own image, then you don't have the courage, you don't have the identity, you don't have the sentiment to deal with your own issues. With nationalism today, there are countries that seem to me that have a healthy nationalism. I regard Finland, a country that I love as having a healthy nationalism based on reality.
The Finns speak the Finnish language. Nobody else in the world speaks the Finnish language. It's a beautiful, but very difficult language. It's the root of Finnish national identity. The Finns have a national epic, the Kalevala, in the Finnish language. And every Finn can recite the Kalevala, Of Americans and English people can recite Shakespeare. So the Finns have a healthy national identity focused on their language, their culture, and also their history, and what they've been able to overcome. There are countries that have excessive national identity. There are for example, people who would regard Germany during the 1930s during the Hitler era, as having had excessive national identity. Today, it seems to me that Germany has a healthy national identity.
Germany's national identity is not based on going out and conquering the world and acquiring [INAUDIBLE],, but recognizing that there are wonderful things about Germany that distinguish Germany from other countries. German's long history with the German language, the language of Martin Luther, that unifies Germans Protestants and Catholics, the government support for the arts in Germany, the emphasis on the importance of the community in Germany as opposed to the rights of individuals. In the United States and Los Angeles, anybody can build a house with any architectural plan that you like. And so there's no attractiveness to neighborhoods. In Germany, there is attractiveness in the neighborhoods. So it seems to me that Germany has a healthy national identity today. It did not in the 1930s. Chile has a healthy national identity. After Chile recovered from the trauma of a military government in 1990.
When a democratic government came back, it would have been so obvious for the democratic government to try to take revenge on the military government's leaders who had tortured and killed so many Chileans. But the first speech by Chile's new democratic government in 1990 was that he wanted to build a Chile for all Chileans, a wonderful expression. That's real national identity. A Chile for all Chileans means a country where the tortured and their relatives can live together with the torturers. It sounds terrible, but that's the only way that Chile could get out of the horrors of their military government. But that depended upon Chileans having a sense of national identity that transcended the horrible things that had happened in Chile.

[@bigthink]

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[@nakkivene3819]

Nationalism is the reason a lot of countries exist

[@vishnuvi8429]

Also reason for many doesn't

[@jashwanthspaceman7399]

@@vishnuvi8429 here from satyanveshi?

[@thx1138thecrane]

It the reason France wasn't torn into 13 different pieces thrown into the arms of 13 different countries and losing all of their long history, well that and Napoleon.

[@owlnyc666]

Ultra nationalism is the reason why countries do not exist. Binary thinking and analog thinking.

[@Ghost88320]

All*

[@Xerdar36]

It can be used for Good and Evil... Water can be used for life or for drowning people...

[@199nacho199]

Damn son will you be in the next video

[@neowolf09]

Everything is a tool. It's all about how you use it.

[@imperator791]

There's always a third option which u didn't tell It can be used for both good and bad Like Russia US China All these use it to make their countries strong but also want to make other countries weak

[@Thomas.Nikolaidis10]

You got it wrong. Nationalism is not a bad thing, its not rascism, its not nazism, its not fascism. Unlike these other ideologies, nationalism does not have literally any rascist ideology towards other nations, only love to its own.

[@hansemist]

Its important that every nation in Europe and the west preserve their traditions and cultural history regardless and fast!

[@TheHunterOfYharnam]

@torivarnor hahahaha yea thats why they are so united LOL

[@jamalel-sayed5196]

But why is it important? Why? What if a culture involves bad stuff, what if traditions are tainting?

[@Ghost88320]

1 Land, 1 Cultural Identity, 1 language. Multiculturalism leads to separatism

[@mekingtiger9095]

I'm gonna repeat what one of the commenters here said, but with a small twist: *Why is it important that individuals inside of a given culture follow it unconditionally???*

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@Ghost88320 Separatism is the right of every individual on Earth, though. Not just simply of cultures and ethnicities...

[@osse1n]

*Healthy nationalism gives people identity - that union can be very powerful in country's development and the direction it's going.*

[@hansemist]

I agree! This form of a rule should definitely be implied to every nation Across Europe and Other parts of The World!

[@retrobluemusic]

Facts! It can bring manufacturing back to countries and create jobs

[@simo_hayha4917]

Just never add socalism

[@armstrong2450]

Well said.

[@owlnyc666]

The fact is that there is Both Socialism and Capitalism in the USA. Never add Communism! 😉🇺🇸

[@nobelheretic8962]

Any group of people willing to replace themselves is spiritually sick

[@oviatb]

Replacing means removing and placing something else. You racist!

[@nobelheretic8962]

@@oviatb do you need some tissues ?

[@fightfannerd2078]

spiritually ? you mean just stupid

[@mikeamber2528]

@@nobelheretic8962 Nah he's right you're a complete bigot

[@kermitthefrog7425]

@Ionut Ionut why is race even a big deal

[@crazymangoz9583]

Nationalism has a negative stigma because when people hear it they automatically think about incredibly extreme examples of it. Nationalism is actually a good thing, just don’t be crazy extreme and try to eliminate every other culture off the face of the earth.

[@RealPeppaPigXD]

I mean deportion exists for a reason

[@mekingtiger9095]

It's still not very good even when not attacking other cultures. People try to look too much into the big rivalries, but the toxic collectivistic mentality that individuals born into a said "nation" *must* obey and respond to their nation-sate's government in such a way that they don't matter as much is pretty overlooked. What happens when someone just decides he does not want to ve loyal to their culture and country anymore? What happens when they just don't want to be dragged into some war effort on the other side of the map by force? They are often pressured by their local society and treated as having some kind of disease. A "traitor", if you will. In a way, nationalism, at least in the form of ethno nation states, isn't much different from socialism.

[@Emprah]

@@mekingtiger9095 what are they if not traitors? You’re a funny one.

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@Emprah I can also make a similar argument for any smaller community inside a country: "You're a catalan who is loyal to Spain? You're a traitor to Catalunia!" "You're a Texan who identify yourself with America first and foremost? You're a traitor to Texas!" "You're a Gaúcho who is a brazilian nationalist? Unthinkable! You're a traitor to Rio Grande do Sul!" And let's also not forget how much Pan-Slavism (a type of nationalism) is playing into the minds of Russian nationalists to openly support or celebrate this entire mess with Ukraine right now. That's what the idea of dragging a group of people under one single rule is in a nutshell. Hence some old acquaitances of mine have once said: "Nationalism is just globalism at a smaller geographical scale". At the end of the day, loyalty, duty and moral obligations to a group or a community is entirely subjective and only exists at the core of each individual person and only exists for as long as the individual believes it does.

[@sebencopeak9839]

@@Emprah They're traitors for not constantly licking the boots of their politicians. A puppeteer, or politician if you prefer, cannot control someone who isn't tied to strings. They cannot be manipulated, controlled, or lied to. Therefore, the puppeteer must demonize the free man/woman. And the puppeteer's collection of marionettes will follow their master's command and will butcher the free man/woman without question. Marionettes and their violent obsession are the cause of many conflicts throughout history. These collection of marionettes are a disease that will spread death to million. This disease should be eradicated as such. If I am labeled as a traitor for refusing to be tied to strings, then I would be proud to be a traitor to these marionettes.

[@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207]

Nationalism isn't intrinsically evil, it's rather quite the opposite. I think it's the more extreme people giving it a bad name. Loving your country and wanting to preserve national and cultural identity is everything but evil to me. I think that's why the EU is anti-nationalist.

[@nightprowler6336]

U mean Chauvinism which is ultra nationalism it is evil.

[@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207]

Yeah, I wanted to point that out. Thank you.

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

nationalism means that you put more value on the people with the same arbertairy distinction than others putting the us above the them this is a big problem

[@cs0345]

It's impossible to protect your country from a larger threat without help from other nations. The EU is internationalist not anti-nationalist

[@elinope4745]

Are rage bait titles ever a force of good?

[@Observer-cp4if]

Rage bait? How is the title rage bate? It's a good question.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

It's only rage bait if you immediately start writing a comment without listening to what the person actually has to say. And clickbait titles and thumbnails are unfortunately necessary on YT nowadays.

[@elinope4745]

@@Christopher-md7tf They are only necessary if your average video lacks content. I have several channels that I watch every video they make no matter what the title or thumbnail is, because I know they will give me quality content and not waste my time.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

@@elinope4745 Yup, it's pretty much the same for me, but people like us don't make up the majority of YT users.

[@elinope4745]

@@Observer-cp4if its like asking, is social welfare ever a force for good? Well, I am sure you can find instances where it is not a force for good, but the majority of the time it is a force for good. Same goes with nationalism.

[@hellooperator6639]

Germany seems to be swinging too far to one side as it did the other in WWII. As an outsider anyway, it seems like as a nation they let a lot of people walk over them.

[@Minuku42]

Refugees don't even make 2% of the population in Germany. In fact it is only in the medium area of nations in the EU who took refugees in comparison to the native population. Other countries like Greece, Italy and if you want to go to the extremes Turkey and Lebanon took a lot of more people than Germany in this sense (5-33% of their population). The only thing why Germany is so much talked about is because of the fact that they have by far the most citizens in the EU and so 2% of this is still a big number even though it still doesn't mean a lot. Me as a German I live 100m away from a refugee facility and it isn't really a problem at all. Crime rates are at the lowest point since the unification and if our politicians let those people finally work we could tackle the lack of workers in the middle class

[@studdruppo]

I would say that globalism is more of a threat to individual freedoms then Nationalism. Globalism is centralizing power while nationalism decentralizes power.

[@vidyanandbapat8032]

It depends in where you live. If you are living in a first world, capitalist, individualist free country as like America and her allies Brutain, France, Germany, Japan etc., then globalization may lead to deterioration of the freedoms you are already enjoying. Whereas if you are living in an erstwhile 2nd world(Warsaw bloc) or third world country like India, then globalization is good for you. In a third world country like India, globalization had brought many reforms which strengthened her economy.

[@mick7sp]

Nationalism is no different than people supporting a sports team - Sportisim... Fine in moderation, dangerous in the extreme.

[@vidyanandbapat8032]

Civic nationalism as like Americanism isn't a bad idea, but most, infact almost all nationalisms are ethnocentric which lead to highly collectivist, authoritarian and totalitarian control freaks coming into power. Its no different than a communist or socialist socalled economy.

[@mick7sp]

@@vidyanandbapat8032 Basis for this opinion please?

[@vidyanandbapat8032]

@@mick7sp Civic nationalism is driven by principles where ethnocentric nationalism/racism is driven by people.

[@vidyanandbapat8032]

@@JS-mb7ww But for what reason? Sheer accident of birth?

[@JS-mb7ww]

@@vidyanandbapat8032 Yes, a people, a nation has a right to self-determination. It's nature's natural organization. Race is real, race matters, race is the basis of identity. You are not entitled entrance to anyone else's extended family. Why would you be? They can say no. The west is now going to say no. Get used to it.

[@carpo719]

I think we really have to identify the differences between nationalism and patriotism

[@oceanthresher6184]

There is none. Both mean supporting a political entity religiosity and demonizing anyone who steps back to question it or outright refuses to go along.

[@Random17Game]

Patriotism is related to liking your country, feeling proud of it. Nationalism more about ferverously identifying with your cultures, traditions, way of life, history language etc and wanting to keep those

[@TheeDrGroyper]

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with nationalism. The problem is when nationalism goes too far.

[@prometheus5405]

It can't go far if it doesn't exist. Alas, when two countries speak different languages then this happens.

[@jiminverness]

It's an excellent defense against the tryannical aspect of globalism, and provides welcome refuge for those who suffer its ill effects.

[@thecorruptversion]

Mostly internet incels are the biggest "victims" of globalism. The actual model we have, is the one that has given us the most. We've never been more free and wealthy (as countries), but red pill-incel-losers tend to hate it. Capitalism and globalism are the best we've ever had.

[@jiminverness]

@@thecorruptversion You are kidding, right? No? On what planet are you living? Clearly not the same one as me.

[@thecorruptversion]

@@jiminverness yeah, socialists /fascists tend to say that to me.

[@jiminverness]

@@thecorruptversion Really? So not just normal people then?

[@thecorruptversion]

@@jiminverness Normal people live a decent life, thanks to our system. It's just the special little snowflakes, the ones that can't handle it and cry about the "ill effects" through a screen. By the way, calling THIS "tyrannical" shows how sensitive and delicate you are. Wait until you hear about Stalin, Mao, Hitler, etc.

[@JonathanKajanga]

Nationalism is like self love and self respect and self care. Internationalism is like pleasing others at the expense of your happiness. Nationalism is the respect of your national sovereignty and the sovereignty of others

[@prometheus5405]

Take a look at the globe! Nationalism is just internationalism on a small scale! A "nation" is a joint of many federations/states/provinces/prefectures or whatever. You're already an internationalist!

[@russiane.lection-hacker2057]

No need to tarnish the meaning of words by blurring the lines. It's straightforward: Self-confidence is good; arrogance and narcissism are bad. Nationalism is good; fascism and exceptionalism are bad.

[@thumbwarriordx]

Yes. For a very long time nationalism was a unifying force against petty racial and tribal divisions. As the modern more divisive force? I dunno. Probably not in most cases. I do have a soft spot in my heart for Scottish nationalism.

[@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122]

nationalism:"you are born into this tribe and you have to loyal to us,the collective. Other tribes don't matter and inferior."

[@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122]

@@taliesinhalliday nationalism and socialism are both forms of collectivism.

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@VeryProPlayerYesSir1122 Holy, shit! *Finally,* someone who damn gets it!!!

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@taliesinhalliday That's because it is in the sense that both are collectivistic as hell.

[@godless1014]

Having pride in a set of principles - assuming those principles are good - makes sense. Having pride in a flag, geographical location, race, or religion is fucking insane and humanity would be better off if those people were ejected into space.

[@BobBob-eb4io]

Well a flag normally represents the principals of the country but those other things yeah make no sense to have crazy amount of pride in those things

[@applesandgrapesfordinner4626]

@@BobBob-eb4io Well said! If the flag represents the hard work, grit, and the principles that transcend racial boundaries, that's something you can totally get behind

[@heristyono4755]

1:47 [inaudible] = Lebensraum. you're welcome

[@byom3100]

I, as a German, feel offended by the combination of thumbnail and title. Todays German flag was relevant for the time 1815-1866, 1919-1933 and 1949-today. It has nothing to do with the Nazi-Time. Please do more research next time!

[@BobBob-eb4io]

Is that really something to get offended about its just a thumbnail but yeah it is a odd choice to put the german flag there

[@Pioneer_DE]

@@BobBob-eb4io It is the Combination of title and Thumbnail along with the topic that makes it offensive.

[@ZombiePigman642]

lol

[@EuropeanQoheleth]

If Finalnd's nationalism is based in reality then what we need is realism, not nationalism.

[@glennabate1708]

It’s is the only foundation we have for the existence of Civilization. If you have no Nation than who Is your government. From what I know it’s national governments that depend on nationalist patriotism to defend the people. To call Nationalism evil is evil. The real Nations are Christian Nations and the Christian world is Christiandom. Gods kingdom on Earth. I trust God more than any politician and prefers constitutional governments that have there rules set in stone so everybody understands not ever changing values that could be outdated next year. Leftist think they know more than thousands of years of knowledge. Imagine being that vain and full of yourself.

[@An_Imperial_Guard.]

"Nationalism is selfish." Yeah, the problem is that most countries like to abuse those who are generous.

[@JS-mb7ww]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKqTlpZoiK1mmqM

[@n3r0n3]

Also "healthy" and "unhealthy" sound moralistic. So nationalism is healthy when it is responsive to an external aggression but not healthy when it is expansionistic? Also Rome incorporated people from other cultures up to the highest ranks and its fierce cultural identity and expansionistic policies could be strong long before anyone came out with the concept of nationalism.

[@winterfrost8623]

What's with the Roman empire? It brought nothing but destruction to the rest of Europe, because of its expansionistic view, filled with greed to spread the "good word", that's not nationalism, thats imperialism

[@johnsnow3460]

Nations are purely modern inventions, hence the concept of nationalism did not exist as such during the Roman empire. The Roman empire cannot really be used as a comparison, you will need first the French revolution to have a some kind of proto-nationalism.

[@n3r0n3]

@@winterfrost8623 ...now we may have slayed you in the past (the barbaric populations that invaded Europe later on did the same often in much more brutal ways) but at least half of the words used in your sentence come from latin (including "nationalism" from "natio")... forgive me but I can't resist pointing this out. In any case I am not here to praise or spit on any empire in history (Roman Empire included). Nonetheless the western world as we know it exists, for good and for worse and whether this is acknowledged by youtubers or not, because the Roman Empire and Greece (and before that Mikonos, Egypt, Babylon...) provided its conceptual and political foundations and premises. It also exists because a bunch of other cultures contaminated the conqueror's culture and gave some at times very strong contributions. The romans recognised this: when they conquered Greece they wrote "Greece just conquered Rome". They were funny people! Anyway you are right, empires are empires and they never change... Rome killed people and raided villages but let me remind you that the west destroys so much more today than it did back then. This is why I do not appreciate the moralistic "healthy/unhealthy" approach the speaker takes... he's not a doctor and he is also from the US so really let's drop the moralism! Last thing... nationalism and imperialism, while all but incompatible, are different concepts so let's not mix them. What I was saying, and I know it was not clear (I modded my comment so I hope it is now), is that Romans were imperialistic and self-confident if not fierce in their cultural identity. Judging by what the speaker in the video says, this should be the consequence of a strong nationalism. Well, guess what, nationalism as an ideology back then just did not exist. So we can conclude that nationalism and confidence in your cultural identity are not necessarily in a cause-effect relationship as the speaker states. I hope it is more clear now.

[@n3r0n3]

@@johnsnow3460 You are right the way I wrote it was not clear (unless you read another comment first.. this was basically the second half). Sure, the concept of nationalism does not apply to ancient history (the concept of "natio" nonetheless existed among the romans and it corresponds more to the idea of cultural unity, not to "state" as a political entity - "nationalism" as you say did not). But this was precisely my point: Rome is an example of how the cause-effect relationship between nationalism and cultural confidence (the entire speaker's point) has in fact not always been the case: as westerners we lived most of our history without even elaborating the concept of nationalism or nation in the modern sense, nonetheless our self confidence as peoples or cultures did not falter. But apart from ancient history, in our current world there are an infinity of cases where this correspondence between countries as a political entity and cultural identity does not apply: from I dunno... Tibet? Roma people? Basically all indigenous peoples in the world? A few ex Soviets.. say Pridnestrovie?... And with these cases I could go on forever even in the west: from Ladini in the north of Italy to the Basque in Spain, ethnically based groups in Rwanda and so on and so forth... (I do not want to bring up the Jewish as when u do on socials it's normally armageddon). Especially in the contemporary western world (and particularly when ethnically based) these strong cultural identities can take the form of reactive nationalism (at times peaceful such as with Nunavut for example, at times not). But this is not necessarily so. Luckily we may be confident as people without being nationalistic and without even identifying with a state. We may even be imperialistic without being nationalistic (the weird case of the Vatican?). Nationalism is ultimately an ideology and as such u may embrace it or not. You know... when I read "historian" in the caption I expected a balanced speech, not a sermon that gives the nationalistic perspective for granted and does not discuss its premises. That was my criticism.

[@BobBob-eb4io]

@@winterfrost8623 not really it brought alot of order and made Europe more advanced

[@Hieronymus1450]

Im german and we have an indentity problem. Most people can't see the german history in the last century objective. We still define us about this last century.

[@rodrigoteresa7944]

My country, in the meantime, is not nationalist enough.

[@wert2345]

where are you from mate? I reckon that's a very unique stance.

[@MetricImperialist]

@@wert2345 His avatar makes it clear.

[@wert2345]

@@MetricImperialist perhaps i'm an uncultured swine but i don't recognize it, care to enlighten me?

[@MetricImperialist]

@@wert2345 What country is most commonly associated with maple leaves and frequently uses them on their coat of arms and their national flag?

[@silversolver7809]

​@@MetricImperialist Those aren't maple leaves :) I know the country in his avatar because I lived there for a while-small, 4 provinces [their symbols in avatar], and there's no clue in his name.

[@europeansovietunion7372]

The German "healthy national identity" the speaker is mentioning is basically saying "There's too much Germans in Germany, we need to change that ASAP". This is neither nationalism (quite the opposite), and it's certainly not healthy.

[@nal8503]

@@Naikomi95 He's at least partially right though. In Germany taxes and social services are so expensive that businesses migrate to the US and similar countries. This mean that high-skilled Germans get less than half the base salary than they would elsewhere even before taxes. And with the tax/social security burden they have twice the deductions from their salary as well. People complain about health insurance in the US, but if a high-skilled worker moved there and did the same job they would get at least 3x the base salary and pay half in taxes. Even if they'd pay 3-4k for an apartment (instead of getting a car and commuting) and 1k for health insurance they'd end up with at least twice the left-over money compared to Germany. This leads to high-skilled people leaving Germany for e.g. the US or Switzerland. And politic's answer to the problem is importing people from India to make up for the lack of talent which Germany's politics drove out in the first place.

[@Naikomi95]

@@nal8503 and you are wrong... I'm Swiss so I should know better, there is no difference in living in Switzerland and Germany because yes you pay less taxes but every product is much more expensive here, in the end it's financially the same. The only thing that exists are a lot of people living in near the border in Germany and working in Switzerland I'm right now working in Germany and I'm getting a overall a better pay than I would get in Switzerland...

[@europeansovietunion7372]

​@@Naikomi95 Looks like you misunderstood. I'm not saying Germans are trying to make themselves leave Germany. I'm saying Germans keep beating themselves up because of their "German's sin" and want to bring millions of "economical refugees" to redeem and/or punish themselves, so eventually "being German" won't mean anything anymore. This is the extreme opposite of nationalism, and it's certainly not healthy.

[@Exgrmbl]

@@europeansovietunion7372 Not healthy is an understatement. It's the starting point for future ethnoreligious conflict, completely self-inflicted.

[@europeansovietunion7372]

@@Naikomi95 Please learn to read names before questioning my understanding of "'basic concepts", this is embarrassing...

[@100musicplaylists3]

"Wrap a turd in a flag and millions wont smell it" - T. J. Huxley

[@almightytreegod]

I think this all depends on how you define nationalism... and could there be an argument for healing civil tensions without nationalism? A strong national identity isn’t necessary for me to be kind to my neighbors, personally, although I guess for some people it’s required?

[@nobelheretic8962]

What happens when a group of people out vote you and change your way of life because thats where we are heading

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

@@nobelheretic8962 that is democracy the majority votes and if a society no longer agrees with the way it is run it can be changed

[@cs0345]

@@definitlynotbenlente7671 That's incredibly wrong. Majoritarian democracy leads to tyranny of the majority, and allows the majority ethnicity to have power over everyone else

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

@@cs0345 depends on your political system

[@LaVaZ000]

Nationalism is about creating a state where the people matter, where there is no anti-nation agenda, no anti-white agenda, and that the white existence in such country is secured. We had those things before, why can't we have them now? National homogeneity is the most crucial thing about creating and maintaining a stable society, the more diverse it gets, the more difficult it becomes to keep it all together in one piece. The worst thing is, that if the invading ethnicity overruns the native one, all of the history, the culture, the language, the society will be destroyed and replaced by the invading culture, invading people, invading ethnicity - which is what I want to avoid at all costs. Is it really too much to ask for? To ask just for survival the survival of one's kind?

[@aussiegod4269]

Basically like asking is taking care of your family first important?

[@JS-mb7ww]

Thank you.

[@IndigoDisco]

Yep. Put others before you and yours and you're a 'good person'. Do the opposite and you're racist, fascist, hateful, bigoted, etc etc... smh

[@jamalel-sayed5196]

So basically you set the criteria for your “family” on being born within a border that exists because of former wars or colonizations or just some history? If I live in for example California I don’t see why I should consider old Joe over in Massachusetts whom I have never seen or spoken to ever as more of a family member than, than just anyone else on earth.

[@sup3747]

Nationalism without trying to kill each other is the greatest thing on planet

[@osse1n]

*Countries with a healthy nationalism, have masculine leaderships* Masculinity is about boundaries, whereas femininity is more chaotic.

[@winterfrost8623]

Oh no, found the mgtow. You do realize that without a balance between men and women, masculinity and femininity, beneficial healthy nationalism wouldn't exist, right?

[@osse1n]

Daily Compilations of course, agree 100% My comment wasn’t favouring any side.

[@manoo422]

How can Nationalism be anything but a force for good....its not possible for it be anything else.

[@linkking46]

Elaborate, nationalism has been a force of war and discrimination since its conception, fascism, nazism, the romans, the ottomans, the russians right now trying to take over the previous USSR with they excuse they consider themselves russian, the list goes on!

¿Did you watch and understand the video? He directly addeses that part.

[@manoo422]

@@linkking46 Nationalism is an inward looking pride in your country and support of your cultural identity. Wars are an outward looking corruption of that pride to justify a political end. It is the government corruption that needs to be stamped out NOT the nationalism. It speaks volumes that governments seek to shift the blame onto the population (the nationals) for anything negative THEY do, rather than admit they were to blame.

[@winterfrost8623]

@@linkking46 you do realize that all of the stuff you just stated are not nationalist but imperialist, right? Nationalism means focus on making the best out of your own country, the land you live in, be proud of your identity and dont allow someone else to invade it. Imperialism is trying to expand your land, basically driven by greed, which all of the above were, Roman's trying to spread christianity, nazis and the commies trying to spread their bullshit, the ottomans trying to spread islam and so on. Funny you mention the ottomans tho, because if it wasn't for nationalism they would have succeeded, eastern European countries did their best to keep them out because of nationalism

[@johnnyvincent8995]

Absolutely you just need to not go overboard with it I'm a nationalist and being a nationalist is about being fascist or racist it's about loving your country your homeland hoping it prospers and being prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for your home

[@redterrorproductions1373]

Uh what?

[@ronikovaergoshi6471]

@@redterrorproductions1373 I think the person meant “it’s not about bring racist or racist..”

[@songokulul]

Lol, modern Germany has a healthy national identity. Sure thing 👍.

[@cmiguel268]

i wouldn't trust german nationalism. and you need to think what you mean by national identity, I mean german identity today is dissimilar to the german identity in 1933 or 1855 or 1933 BC.

[@krollic]

@@songokulul the centerpiece of their cultural identity is historic shame from WWII. it's been browbeaten into them for generations now by (them) no other nation has been forced to carry this burden and have it used against them

[@oom5768]

Healthy for everyone else

[@mudbrick69]

yea not the best example

[@kokofan50]

ThisGuy, no, we’re already starting to see the pendulum swing back the other way. You can shame the son for the father’s actions, but the grand isn’t going to be shamed for his grandfather.

[@orderofbeing8409]

Does anyone know if there is a group of people that actively works against national identity everywhere, especially in America and Europe?

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

There is, you will know them by there awful treatment of patriots, citizens and national culture/traditions.

[@TheMan05555]

Let's ask Mr. Diamond his thoughts on Israel.

[@globaldigitaldirectsubsidi4493]

A world for all organisms and no nationalism is needed.

[@JS-mb7ww]

No

[@Eaaaaaaa472]

JS90 What’s wrong with that are you against nations working together for the common good of humanity like when the USA, UK and Soviet Union put aside their egos to crush Nazi Germany. Or when the United States lead a coalition to defeat ISIS with the entirety of NATO at their side. Nah you don’t your mentality is that the world is a battle royale. It’s every nation for itself and only the strongest will prevail it doesn’t matter if millions are starving in Yemen or Women are for real being oppressed in Afghanistan. As long as wherever you live in is prosperous you don’t give a rats ass about the welfare of people in other countries.

[@JS-mb7ww]

@@Eaaaaaaa472 What a shit comment. I did not imply that nations can't work together for the common good. But they are not obliged. And there's more people starving in Africa than ever today, despite hundreds of billions in aid from the West. The reason more are starving is because with the aid, they can reproduce more, thus there are more starving people now. The US govt is literally funding extremists in Syria. We should stay the fuck out and stop fighting for Israeli interest. Foreign aid has failed. A people can assert what's in their best interest and if you don't like it, no one cares.

[@NotShowingOff]

In other words your national identity has to be loyal to everyone living under the nation’s flag. Unfortunately creating a healthy nationalism is different for every country, because every country has different roots. Ppls have biases and egos. Individual ppl have to transcend their own egos in order for this to happen.

[@NotShowingOff]

@@masterlee9822 in theory it works. Not in practice. A lot of ppl in the richer countries don’t want to do the more laborious jobs. It’s because being a “great country” went to their head. This is why you see construction workers, plumbers, electricians that are ethnic minorities. Nobody of the majority culture wants to do the “lesser work”

[@joshcal7370]

Very well said, people get too stuck in extremes and lose balance.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

International finance and internationalist ideologies (communism, neo-liberalism, etc.) have caused far more destruction imo.

[@CStone-xn4oy]

Depends on who you ask. Nationalism is like a gun, it can be used against bad guys and against good guys.

[@BougieButler]

Lol at how furious people would be if our president said "An America for all Americans". That's how you know we on that bad bad

[@Zenkka]

I’m Finnish but can’t cite Kalevala and now he made me feel dumb

[@blooeagle5118]

Nationalism at its core is pride in one's country, culture, and countrymen. Fascism, specifically Italian Fascism, is the use of Nationalism to spur the pride of the people to use them against your political opponents in order to establish authoritarianism. Sound familiar?

[@noelyanes2455]

That’s not what nationalism is. That’s patriotism. Nationalism is the idea that the political order is derived from the nation. It’s contrasted with the previous idea that the political order was derived from God through the monarch, hence “divine right.”

[@ParkerBG]

Is jingoism a good thing?... I just wanted to use the word "jingoism"...

[@thepurplepanda4]

No. No no no no no no it is not.

[@sidimightbe]

It’s like happily doing a sad attempt at something

[@Eaaaaaaa472]

DockingBay94 Its aggressive foreign policy that benefits one nation at the expense of others The United States is kinda Jingoistic due to Trump’s tariff with China. Products made in the USA are getting more attention now and all the Chinese products aren’t being sold so China is hurt but America benefits. Another example of America being Jingoistic is their annexation of Hawaii, the Hawaiian kingdom loses independence but the US can expand their presence into the Pacific. Jingoism can be compared to a take and take attitude the US annexes and installs puppet governments to benefit themselves rather than the rest of humanity

[@Eaaaaaaa472]

Specificities I can agree with that statement even though I don’t like both ideologies

[@michaelshannon9169]

I think nationalism is the closest term to putting ones own country first. Theres no hate in this. Much like having a family, you put your own family first. You feed your own kids, you invest your house etc. Confusing this with Nazism is stupid.

[@mekingtiger9095]

Problem with "outting the interests of a nation first" is... who TF is gonna decide what is the best for their nation??? You compare it to a family, but a common house family doesn't have thousands to millions of inhabitants spread throughout relatively distant regions. It is easy to negotiate with your mom, father and sister/brother for a "democratic" outcome. Try to do the same with an entire country by yourself, though. Even "nations" have diverging interests internally. It's why separtist movements even exist to begin with.

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

there is hate in it becouse it means someone from another place is woth less to you than someone who is this can lead to exploitation

[@michaelshannon9169]

@@definitlynotbenlente7671 we make evaluations of all kinds of ppl, not just foreigners, we regard some ppl more highly than others, its how we sre. as foe exploitation, no one forced anyone to leave their country and you dont have a right to make demand while being in a counry illegally.

[@darkalpha50]

Nationalism and loving your country so as to improve it is always a good thing in my point of view. If you don’t love yourself you’ll never learn to become a better person. Without any sense of nationalism a nation is too quick to destroy itself without thinking anything of it, it’s like depression on a national scale, if you don’t love yourself you will ultimately harm yourself in one way or another.

[@kennorthunder2428]

Holding up Germany as a model? Yeah maybe, but the intelligentsia have guilt trips of the past and allow extravagant immigration to their own detriment endangering their social fabric. Holding Chile as a model? "We're all Chileans" sounds fine but human beings need a combination of justice and mercy. But mercy is only appropriate to those who fess up and apologize. Citing these two examples is the direct opposite of healthy nationalism.

[@themac9677]

In what ways has immigration been to the detriment of Germany? It's interesting that you cite immigration as being so terrible when Europeans have forcefully taken over entire regions of the globe. Africans and native Americans can say the same about European people's on their soil. The difference being Africans and Americans would have sufficient evidence to back their claim

[@kennorthunder2428]

@@themac9677 Doesn't the very fact that you recognize that Europeans have recognized that what they have done was detrimental (while in some circles there is the sincere belief that it was both detrimental AND beneficial) indicate that you know intuitively that mass imposition of people groups with their reconcilable world views is destructive to a society? Your very line of argumentation tells us that rapid influx of different cultures is problematic. Statistics also bear it out that people self segregate in spite of the multicultural mantra. What we're quibbling about is the forceful imposition by other means. Either way there's going to be conflict and suffering and misunderstanding. Why do it the way we have for the last decade? Just to atone for the past?

[@Exgrmbl]

@@themac9677 Not really. It's not like people actually actively support this on a mass scale, it's more that politics and governance is quite removed from the people and that the populace on the whole can be described as fairly apathetic and docile. Even if they don't agree with it on a mass scale, they are still too fat, prosperous and content to do anything - they just let it happen. Similar situations with the wars in the US.

[@lucasbest1050]

Here is my thoughts on this subject: I have no inherent qualms about the idea of a national identity. Absolutely, it can unify people together based on a shared cultures. I just reject Nationalism as the necessary prerequisite for a modern state. It is fine if you identify as a Turk, a Bosnian, a Palestinian, a Kurd etc. But the moment your sense of connection to others becomes tied to the definition of "citizenry", it inherently creates more unnecessary division. And it isn't impossible to have many languages or ethnicities in a nation while still be successful. Look at the nations of Switzerland, Belgium, the United Kingdom, Luxembourg, the United States etc. These are nations that are not unified around a singular people or language. Many of them do suffer divisions & conflicts, but I would argue that this isn't the fault of multiculturalism. Nationalism is a social construct which may have had some benefits in forming our modern society. But in the long term, it has outlived its welcome. It has lead to genocides in countries like Bosnia & Herzegovina, Germany, Armenia, the United States, China, and Rwanda all because states used "National identity" to define citizenship. Once you define what counts as a "German", & then have that be the only recognized form of Germanness, you inherently exclude people groups who have lived in communities alongside Germans for generations all because they do not count as a full citizen (or in the the case of ultranationalism, even a fully Human person) in the eyes of the state or the dominant culture. Not to mention, demographics and culture are constantly shifting over time. Am I suppose to believe that the boy-loving Ancient Athenians would ever identify with the modern Greek state? They barely even unified with other Greek-speaking City states. They formed alliances, yes. But they never unified. And look, I recognize that not all cultural values can coexist: Sharia law & democracy for example. But a deal will have to come eventually between representatives of every people-group. Because we as a social species which is becoming more internationally integrated by economics & communication, we need to be willing to seek diplomacy & compromise first. Otherwise, we are doomed to make Earth a Hell worse than anything Lucifer could ever have thought up. So to summarize my point, I don't deny people the right to identify with any other broader community. I do reject these identities being standardized & enforced by a nation-state. I also see the atrocities of hyper-nationalism as the natural end result of this fight to make up common identities where there were none before. As far as I'm concerned, Nationalism had its purposes. But as an ideology of modern politics, it has far outlived its welcome & has greatly exceeded its moral boundaries.

[@cmd7930]

These nations were successful before all the immigration lol

[@invox9490]

I like the Nationalism of Butan, who is the ONLY country with negative carbon emission in the World, and has decided that no more florests will be cut down... And (amazingly enough) it was the rulling class that decreted so.

[@lokijordan]

I'll bet the florests are pretty happy about it, too.

[@geronimo8159]

Good lord, this guy is a professor and he can't differentiate between 'national identity' and nationalism.

[@philo9609]

Really? What‘s the difference then; and why is it significant?

[@Azshare554]

@@philo9609 Patriotism is to confidence as Nationalism is to narcissism.

[@philo9609]

Azshare W - That may be a contemporary pop-definition but if we want to talk about Nationalism seriously, we have to adopt a more academic view. Nationalism is an ideology that proclaims that a nation (i.e. a people) deserves the right to decide their own destiny, nationalists try to create and defend nation states. If you try to subjugate other peoples you are not being nationalistic but rather imperialistic. Patriotism is a sense of duty to ones home /country /town (lat. patria). Nationalism and Patriotism are therefore different things. A contemporary example might be Spain and the Catalan independence movement: The Catalans that try to gain independence from Spain are nationalists. The Spaniards that try to prevent that are also nationalists because they believe Catalonia to be part of their nation, from the Catalan perspective however they are being imperialistic. Finally both Catalans and Spaniards are acting out of a sense of patriotism. I hope you can see now why he uses the picture of ‘healthy’ and ‘unhealthy’ amounts of nationalism.

[@mrnarason]

Love for country, nationalism, patriotism =/= fascism

[@JS-mb7ww]

Nothing wrong with fascism.

[@mrnarason]

@@JS-mb7ww Stfu nazi

[@CautiousKieran]

Nationalism, by definition, can only be constructed with regard to the 'other'. The positive example here of Germany, doesn't really apply when their enforcing austerity on their neighbours. When debates in the EU are conducted with stereotypes of Greek people being 'lazy' and 'unwilling to work' because they want to have some government run services and basic welfare. Sure, you can spin Germany welcoming in lots of refugees, or countries such as Australia embracing a more multicultural nationalistic narrative, as a positive form of nationalism. But would Germany have pursued this path without the ghost of world war 2, without people literally arriving on mass and the imagery that constructing camps would've brought? And, these nationalistic myths still reinforce the conservative position that, these borders must be enforced, some people are legal, some people are not. It doesn't treat the worth of all people equally. It inherently privileges those of the in group with citizenship. So yeah. This guys a bit shallow and full of shit.

[@CautiousKieran]

This bloke needs to read some Derrida.

[@AbuBased731]

Okay N1gg@ 👌🏿

[@waynemontpetit8181]

Neither patriotism nor nationalism is bad. If you don't think your team is the best you shouldn't be on that team 😊

[@lakshmidevi0123]

Imagine living in Pakistan and saying it is the best nation

[@bjornbuckley]

"With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations." -Abraham Lincoln

[@luca920]

Yes. This is why the USSR or the Kingdom of Hungary could never work and why the EU will never work. The principle of the nation state is what makes people most happy and which is most effective. This is just an empiric observation and conclusion. Just as the fact, that national monarchies with Kings and Queens are not inherently bad, even if Hobbes and his anti-absolutism implies the opposite, since monarchism doesn`t prevent a nation to achieve social securities and happiness (Denmark, Sweden, UK, Norway, Netherlands, Luxembourg etc.). Further: Without nationalism we wouldn`t fly to the moon or to Mars. Which are amazing achievements.

[@yosiSher]

... "Is nationalism ever a force for good?" How about we take a look at the origin of the word nation? "The word nation came from the Old French word nacion - meaning "birth" (naissance), "place of origin" -, which in turn originates from the Latin word natio (nātĭō) literally meaning "birth"." Tell me, who do you love more? Your people or another tribe? Do you care about your people? Do you want people who look like you running around in the future? Do you have kids? If you have kids, have you realized that you love having people who look like you around you? To question nationalism, to question one's love for their people is to question humanity itself. I dare you to try run a country for more than 200 years with multiple nationalities competing inside of it. Rome tried, a whole lot of good it did them. Imagine people, imagine the day that ZOG fails entirely, and youtube becomes decentralized, and big think crumbles along with all other propaganda. Wouldn't it be great if peoples could just keep to themselves without world orders breathing down their backs?

[@kamikazekoenful]

idiot

[@rinadevi2227]

Thank for guidance

[@MadDunhill]

“Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.” ― Doug Stanhope

[@MadDunhill]

@Evropa and now look at how nationalism is actually practiced in the real world and the shit it leads to.

[@MadDunhill]

@Evropa yeah, and Germany, Brazil, Russia, USA, Middle East etc. nationalism does way more harm than good. best case scenario, you look dumb in taking pride in someone else's work, worst case scenario you become narcissistic elitists who see people as subhuman solely based on where they're from.

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

@@MadDunhill we ust get rid of it

[@globaldigitaldirectsubsidi4493]

"The nation state is the measles of humanity." Albert Einstein

[@JS-mb7ww]

Albert Einstein was a plagiarist and a zionist hypocrite.

[@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207]

"The problem with us scientists is that we are poor philosophers." - also Albert Einstein

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

He was a Jew, willing to bet had Israel existed during his time he would of had a different view on the subject.

[@globaldigitaldirectsubsidi4493]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark he didn´t believe in conventional religions, you dumbass.

[@globaldigitaldirectsubsidi4493]

@@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207 idiot

[@easybreezysneezycovergirl911]

Nationalism has no place in the future. This is the human race, and travel will continue to become faster and faster. Preserving cultures is a human thing, but cultures move, grow, and adapt just like we do. Life was alot different when we started farming instead of hunting. Technology is making us evolve, and we could do so much more as a species vs individual nations.

[@winterfrost8623]

You're way too caught up into civilization, sure we are advancing faster than ever right now, but every civilization falls after some time and everyone goes back to their natural lives, and nature is pro nationalism because - as you said, humans adapt, but they adapt for the place they are living in, a native Australian wouldn't be able to survive in Europe just as a European wouldn't be able to survive in Australia - under natural circumstances that is.

[@easybreezysneezycovergirl911]

@@winterfrost8623 They absolutely could survive today, and in the future which is what I am talking about. You're equalizing the past and the present when the scales of opportunity is not anywhere close at all. We are living in a completely different time, with extreme advancement in technology. We aren't doomed to repeat the past if we learn from our mistakes. Now, we have all the knowledge we could ever know at our fingertips.

[@winterfrost8623]

@@easybreezysneezycovergirl911 you're still caught up I civilization, and seem to have a rather "we know it all" mindset, truth is we dont know it all, we dont know how much we know - if anything at all, it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have you can't escape nature, civilizations are not natural and are always going to fall no matter what, our civilization for example is basically built on oil, that's why we had such a huge advancement, but the oil will eventually run out. It doesn't matter if they could survive right now, what matters is whether they will survive in the future and the answer to that is no. Only thinking about the present is narrow minded, selfish and will only get lots of people killed in the future.

[@easybreezysneezycovergirl911]

@@winterfrost8623 you're still in the past and I'm in the future. Agree to disagree, even though I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just don't think your thought is fully formed yet.

[@Exgrmbl]

@@easybreezysneezycovergirl911 No, he's not "in the past" and he's talking neither about past nor future. He is talking about human nature, which in this context is timeless. We are still biological hardware-wise the same beings when we hunted mammoths or lived in caves and banged rocks together.

[@dimaniak]

Israelis are the most oppressed nationalists in the world.

[@JigjagjugXyz]

Good joke bro

[@cmanycrows8400]

dimaniak Absolute nonsense. Israel is the most protected nation in the world.

[@angus7278]

You mean the most excessive nationalists in the world don’t you? Zionism is a political philosophy born out of the rise of nationalism in the 1800’s in Europe. It twisted the religion of Judaism into a national identity. This national identity is unlike any other in the world because it defines membership in the nation state by an arbitrary ethnic-religious category. Every other country in the world is a nation for ALL its citizens, but not Israel. This hyper nationalism manifests itself today in constant territorial expansion, militarism and xenophobia.

[@randomcubing7106]

I support globalism.

[@ShawnRavenfire]

I have an interesting thought about American nationalism. I suspect that most Americans just sort of numbly go through the motions of nationalism, but our REAL patriotic pride is more localized, such as a state or a city.

[@smithnwesson990]

We used to hs e more National pride. However with the mass rise of social media and extreme leftists ruling academia that has changed

[@jellydee123]

"Is multiculturalism ever a force for good?" Thats the real question considering most white countries haves gone balls deep into it.

[@fukkyouthatswhy]

what the fuck is the opposite of that? uniiculturalism?, people influence people, and thats translated on a global scale as culture, it has happened throughout history, for example the word "loot" is actually a hindi(india) word which means the same thing, the british liked it and took it , alexanders conquests increased the influence and spread of Greek philosophy throughout the Mediterranean , today we have the internet and it surpasses all the limitations of the past in terms of cultural spread and influence , thats how people turn into weebs(non japanese dude who isnto japanese culture) to white nationalists without being white, the idea of uniculturalism if you want to call it that is contingent on drawing aribtary boundaries based on white and not white, the world will always be multicultural as long as people influence people

[@hochmeisterulrichoffrankfu8207]

@@fukkyouthatswhy When you start importing people with absolutely no historical, linguistic, ethnic bonds to your country, people and culture for the sake of not being called a racist, that is forced and a problem.

[@leekenyon5137]

multiculturalism is almost always a force for evil being a attempt to warp,twist and weaken nations so the ethnic and racial, populations are easier to erase , exterminate, and conquer.

[@kubo407]

This guy seems confused between nationalism and patriotism

[@Gulgathydra]

*Everyone is.* But then the two are more similar in meaning than most synonyms, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

[@winterfrost8623]

And what exactly do you think the difference between those is? They are the same thing, from what I've seen the people who call themselves Patriots just dont want to get called a racist based on the fact that so many people nowadays call nationalism racist for no reason.

[@Gulgathydra]

@@winterfrost8623 *Patriotism:* "devotion to and vigorous support for one's country." *Nationalism:* "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations" If anything, they differ in that nationalism can be expressed by degree, but patriotism is more absolute. (as vigorous means: strong, healthy, and full of energy. - or: forceful.) As in, it's hard to answer the question "how vigorously do you support your country? a) not vigorously, b) slightly vigorously, c) somewhat vigorously, d) fairly vigorously, e) extremely vigorously.

[@winterfrost8623]

@@Gulgathydra so they are the same thing, you can definitely support your country very vigorously, just like nationalism. The only difference I see is the "interests" part, I can see how supporting the best interests for your country can lead to evil if the interests of your country consist of taking down others, but that's when you get into the imperialistic type not nationalistic

[@Gulgathydra]

@@winterfrost8623 Imperialism is (or rather, can be) fuelled by nationalism. Patriots are likely to 'support the troops' even when they do not support the war. (Because you can love your country but not the current government/leader.) As an example, 9-11 and the War on Terror. I would argue that most people were on board with striking back against the Taliban, but support waned with designs of regime change and expansion of the goal (i.e. the invasion of Iraq). Nationalists would say 'let's go get them jerks, and get us some oil, too!' Patriits would say 'I support our troops, and think we need to defend ourselves, but why are we invading Iraq?' Dissidents and disloyalists said 'this is imperialism!' (and they weren't exactly wrong). Real disloyalists attack the returning troops in the streets, if anyone remembers Vietnam.

[@chrishighwaash3755]

I agree with the sentiment of the video, but the examples given are quite bad. Germany has been stripped of national identity by constant guilt-tripping of their population. They aren't proud of being German and aren't willing to fight for their country: brilliantmaps.com/europe-fight-war/ Chilean way of dealing with history is totally wrong and has nothing to do with nationalism. The "old guard" in Chile weren't punished because they were too rich and too powerful to be touched. Never punishing torturers and murderers destroys national identity, trust in government and belief in justice. You can talk to any Chilean and they will tell you how wrong "Chile for all Chileans" was.

[@8Seboo]

Germany is far from having a healthy national identity lmao. And you don't have to talk 'nazi era' to stupidly dismiss that they actually don't(right now). In couple decades you can put the crescent on the German flag and there would be no difference between the people and the flag that represents their nation,cause at that point the majority will probably already speak Turkish. Good theory and nice little analogy, but visit the country before using it as an example.

[@MadDunhill]

i live in germany and what you're saying is complete bullshit. we have a muslim population of less than 6%. even in a scenario where we continue to have high migration numbers, by 2050 it will still be less than 20%. quit your alarmist bullshit and read before you speak.

[@benharrison3479]

@@MadDunhill how was that new years Eve party? You're literally lying.

[@MadDunhill]

​@@benharrison3479 i'm literally lying? i'm literally quoting Pew Research Center statistics, you absolute genius. and how the hell do the new years assaults prove anything about population percentage? also that was 4 and half fucking years ago, kinda telling that you couldn't find a relevant example. seriously a masterpiece of a comment.

[@chris.s7147]

I just want all people of earth that your nation is first. And must always be.

[@stantorren4400]

How about we put people instead of arbitrary abstracts first?

[@googlselzmiyinfo9040]

Thin line between patriotism and nationalism. An even thinner line between nationalism and racism.

[@YuhMovies]

As long as there are people who dont want to change as well as people who want other people to change, there is a problem

[@JS-mb7ww]

Yeah so let's have separate societies. Pretty simple.

[@lolcatjunior]

Nationalism is something that dehumanizes other people.

[@Ikescout100]

I'm trying to explain to my gf.about nationalism and this let me down completely...How In the fuck is .We live in a time when you have to dumb it down sometime and take the hit...

[@jackgoldman1]

Blacks matter to blacks. Whites matter to whites. Jews matter to Jews. I matter to me. If nationalism is about my group, me, it's good nationalism. If it's not my group it's bad nationalism. It's all defined be me. Why? I matter to me. All about me.

[@AntoineDeSaintYT]

Thanks, brief and accessible.

[@oklevetanihrvati3698]

Balkan is good example for nacionalism development. When Serb leaders with communist army (JNA) started their project to exterminate non-Serbs in 'Great Serbia' in 90's (imperial nationalism), Croats and Bosniaks became nationalists to ensure their existance (defensive nationslism).

[@tezz2698]

The alternative to nations, and thus nationalism, is imperialism. And never has an imperialist oberlord prioritised the benefit of their subjects.

[@reformedartist8528]

i dunno seems to be working well for China

[@caller347]

Ethnic nationalism is the best nationalism.

[@mrbull569]

What the speaker didn't mention is that in countries where you have healthy nationalism, you have a demographic that is all or almost all one people who share the same history. diversity is great and has its cultural benefits , but no one in their right mind is going to believe that a government made up of people from completely different backgrounds with different cultural experiences can come together and work in some kind of unified way, and it makes perfect logical sense. Humans are tribalistic by nature and the only reason why the US is still holding together is because of abundant resources and the fact that the government is largely made up of European americans. If that drastically changed, you'll have Libya or south africa or somalia or syria or any of these failed states. No one wants to say it how it is.

[@muhammadilfanzulfani5668]

Who can tell what Jared Diamond said from minutes 1.45 to 1.55? I am Indonesian. I am not good at listening to English.

[@crazymangoz9583]

He is comparing modern day Germany to Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 40s, saying how they aren’t trying to acquire lebensraum, which is living space, but instead embracing their culture without attacking others. I hope that helps some

[@VortexDamon]

Civic nationalism thats the only good nationalism i know (And since when the modern US is a Civic Nationalism?)

[@AsimKhan326]

What about America?

[@bdstudios6088]

Even Fukuyama, who thought neoliberal globalism would be the end of history, admitted now that national identity is essential to people

[@mekingtiger9095]

I'm more into regional identities and separatism, though.

[@cs0345]

@@mekingtiger9095 Decentralization is better than separatism

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@cs0345 Also works really well in theory, but 99.9999% of governments would never allow it to be sustained for long. Even if a country becomes more federalized, the tendency is for the central federal governments to little by little tighten the chains again as time goes by. Didn't it kinda happen to the United States over the course of the centuries? Sure, still decentralized to a degree, but nothing like it was before from what I heard.

[@sanjuansteve]

Despite the title of the book #Fear, I think we're neither discussing the properly framed problem, nor the big picture solutions yet. #FearIsTheProblem. Fear is the root of insecurity, narcissism, bullying, misogyny, homophobia, racism, bigotry and greed. Fear allows people to mentally wall-off their own empathy to virtually zero. Three of the biggest generators of fear are 1) this historically unsustainable and exponentially growing wealth and income inequality level of late stage, out of control capitalism (if you lose your job you might lose healthcare access, your home, car, partner, child custody, etc), 2) fear-mongers like Fox/Faux/Fear News, the GOP, etc. (they’re all out to get you, all the time), and 3) religion ('evil' is waiting around every corner, all your life with eternal unimaginable fiery torture as a deterrent). American Republican fear is historically extraordinary. Every single American Republican policy is more fear and greed based than the progressive alternative. Fear (and the empathy it kills) is what separates the left from the right. With tuition free education, universal healthcare, a livable Universal Basic Income (UBI) replacing hundreds of individual federal, state, etc existing social safety net programs including things like Social Security, unemployment insurance, etc, together we'll take a giant leap in reducing day to day societal fears and towards increasing equality.

[@Newwaver2007]

I used to subscribe to this channel, but it kinda was a an annoying thing when they kept having people on who don't know what they talked about. But because once there used to be funny non-theist people on who were having somewhat a healthier mindset then it was a nice program, and it was funny to see the Japanese guy talk about his ideas. This video kinda makes it clear, there's subjects this channel is utterly useless at.

[@brandonburt4244]

I love how this video spins nationalism...🙄

[@thumbwarriordx]

It's really not spinning anything. It's just acknowledging its benign forms in a way that nobody typically does when they're talking about nationalism today. He's just not talking about what you're talking about.

[@bk5885]

Interesting topic to cover 💡💡

[@VB83280]

Nope.

[@oneworldgonewrong7945]

What's the immigration like in Finland?

[@oneworldgonewrong7945]

@@AndersGehtsdochauch that's good news if true...thanks I'll try and double check

[@JS-mb7ww]

too much because it's higher than zero

[@oneworldgonewrong7945]

@@JS-mb7ww Good answer 🙏

[@Newwaver2007]

It would help to know what Nationalism is before you’re critisising it 😇

[@emptyhad2571]

It’s a curse

[@emptyhad2571]

Internationalism is better.

[@brendarua01]

Isn't it a matter of belonging to the groups around oneself? It could be an extended famil, or clan, or villiage, etc. But there must come a point when the size is too big to provide the feelings required. Maybe the whites who lived in British colonies felt a part of the Empire, as opposed to West Africa, Singapore, or Canada. But how long do these things last?

[@johnsnow3460]

Nationalism in its most basic form really is just belonging to a group as you said. Most modern books in political theory also say that ("imagined community"). Starting in the 1800s we get some basic form of nationalistic identity and in the 20th century we get our current form of nationalism. However, I don't think the size of some socio-political entity is a problem, as long as there is an emotional attachment (common language, values, football team, ...). The groups even tend to get bigger as time passes e.g. European Union.

[@brendarua01]

@@johnsnow3460 I see your point and it makes sense. But my informal survey of groups through history suggests that size and duration or inversely related. The bigger thay are, the quicker they fall so to speak It would be interesting to plot it out sometime.

[@gustavoprato5963]

i respectfully disagree with the last part aboaut a chile for all, the torturer and the relatives of the victims. I didnt make a historyc analisis, but for me the only way to unite the country after all the horrors of that dictadorship just like many other ones from latin america is to bring justice for the victimsm, if not at the beggining, some time after.

[@Ichigoeki]

Finland united after a civil war 'cause USSR attacked us, thinking that the Finnish reds would support them.

[@LunaticTheCat]

Absolutely not.

[@sidimightbe]

I just think whatever Russia’s doing and do that

[@MrSurvivalgecoLP]

I had to laugh reading your comment. But yeah you're kind of right

[@gamermapper]

Kosovo is not Serbia

[@derbyshirereal5294]

@@gamermapper yeah its greece

[@deniz9127]

Nationalism IS dangerous. You're talking about patrioism. The Patriot would die for his country and the nationalist would kill for his Country! So keep that apart!

[@thephilosophermma8449]

Why should you be proud of where you are from

[@Forestgravy90]

The alternative is being a slave to corporations