Is Pay 2 Win Really Happening in Elite Dangerous Odyssey? Gamestore ARX Ship Variants & Early Access

Is Pay 2 Win Really Happening in Elite Dangerous Odyssey starting in the first week of May 2024?
After the Python MK II & Elite Dangerous Updates to the Gamestore information went live I have been bombarded by multiple commanders to give my opinion.
First let’s tackle the Elite Dangerous Gamestore and Pricing changes.
“Over the past few years, many of you have identified that the store has become hard to navigate and that it is difficult to find the content that you really want, with this in mind we will be refreshing the store to provide a better experience for our players.”
Even though I haven't spent any money in the Elite Dangerous ARX store recently, I have spent hundreds of dollars in the past. Any changes that make it easier for the buyer to find and then open their wallet will be a huge improvement and should generate more money for Fdev. If they can arrange the store to make items way easier to find it’s going to really boost impulse sales.
“Starting in May 2024, you will notice a change in how we approach the Elite Dangerous Gamestore - which will also include ARX pricing adjustments for some of our cosmetic items, alongside new product types. Players will continue to be able to earn ARX in-game by playing Elite Dangerous daily, or by contributing to events in-game.”
When Fdev first introduced the ability to earn ARX in game I was pretty excited. This was during the time I was actually spending money in the store on a constant basis. Here is the thing though. You can only earn 400 per week and it takes a few minutes depending on what you're doing to earn those 400 ARX. I basically viewed it as a time gate for those who can't really afford real world purchases....
"We are excited to bring ship variants into Elite Dangerous throughout the year and are looking forward to seeing how you make use of each one. Starting with the Python Mk II, we are pleased to announce that this will be available in-game for Odyssey players on the 7th August for credits at Shipyards across the galaxy.”
You know what? It’s actually pretty exciting to finally have a solid release date announced for the Python Mk II! We all know the exact date we as commanders can finally buy our first of four ship variants in Elite Dangerous. After all these years I’m pretty excited.
“However, if you cannot wait until then you can get 3-month early access to this ship on 7 May from the store for 16250 ARX.”
Oh wow so where do I begin? First of all if they don’t adjust the amount of ARX a player can earn it’s going to be brutal, capped at 400 per week that comes out to just a little over 40 weeks to grind for that early access ship. By the time you grind that the rest of the remaining three other variants will already be released. It sounds like they are upping the ways we can earn ARX in game. Let’s hope those changes come with a larger weekly cap.
The Python MKII is only the first ship variant. I’m willing to bet the other three new incoming ship variants will also be pre released into the ARX store for early access. If that doesn’t happen I would be extremely surprised.
“Non-Odyssey owners will be able to access ship variants from the store for ARX.”
This sounds an awful lot like if you don’t own Odyssey then the only way to get these new ships is to spend real world money...
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www.epidemicsound.com/
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[@HawkesGaming]

This is the ultra fast version of my next best start coming soon!

[@AKRGR375]

o7

[@dannyC3827]

I can't wait. Even though I consider myself a veteran player now, I owe much of my early success to your tips and advice. As far as paying for things in games goes for real money, if FDev doesn't have an income, the servers go down. It sucks they're so late to the game.

[@AnontheOP]

I view it as more of an attempt of "pay to catch up to the veterans." None of the things on offer are the best.

[@TheScottShepard]

Less grind would be welcome. I’m more of an RPer and less Min/Maxer. I know I’m not the right audience for this channel ;). I like that FDev are thinking about the gameplay and hopefully they will keep making quality of life changes.

[@ShinigamiAnger]

One thing is for sure: they have generated a lot of talk about Elite Dangerous (aka free advertising) Hopefully this can translate to more players trying it, sticking to it, spending money (mostly cosmetics) and so making Fdev develop more actual content and fixes for the game. I'm being very optimistic, I know, truth to be told I won't be holding my breath, but I can still hope, 'cause this game deserves so much more and there is so much that could be implemented, if I just sit for 5 minutes I am literally overwhelmed by ideas that I'm sure everybody would love to see in this game if they actually play it.

[@anth123ish]

Hey hawkes hope all is well than,s for everything you have done to help us cheers

[@edwardk3637]

I think this will end up benefiting everyone in the long run because FDev will be making more money from Elite. Therefore more frequent updates and hopefully more content and improvements as well. Love your videos man and i can't wait for the next engineering farm video. I don't know how many times i blew my ship up trying to get back to the station faster after a run. I didn't know it wasn't a thing anymore lol

[@solarisaint1]

Elite has been very generous with updates the last decade, Maybe if they generate more revenue they can invest in making the game better....I think it would be cool to have your own custom ship, and you can hold or sell too another player......Im open for it..Star citizen sells shops for hundreds and the game is still a demo....Elite must way their options for survival...I stand by their plan......

[@davedanter]

Always a pleasant experience when ever you drop content, and equally educational, best of luck for 2024

[@ShinigamiAnger]

B thrusters can make sense on a mining ship, if you value more module integrity and power draw over that bit of extra speed

[@Irishdavo]

thanks Hawkes, on point as usual m8... I hope that all is well.

[@willsintheair]

I don't actually hate this, in fact I think it's good for the game. I'll be able to convince more friends to jump in now that I can finally just gift them a kitted ship. There people out there who just want into Elite to go exploring and have zero interest in what it takes to earn an exploration ship. My friends will provide revenue for the game and then we'll piss off into the black. I like to think of this more like Pay 2 Catch Up.

[@sambucca1977]

Honestly, if this brings in cash and lets Elite survive, then they should go for it! Hell, maybe there’s money then for ship interiors..😉

[@brotakul]

OK, so let's take this point by point: 1. Just because you can earn any kind of in-game money by simply playing the game, regardless of the amount, is already a huge win over what a lot of other games are doing. Sure 400ARX/wk is miniscule when comparing to the new Python mk2 "early access" price, but for anything else, it's still something of a useful incentive. 2. The early access Python mk2 price is steep, but it's a way Fdev can make some more money on the side for those who want to commit. It's nothing mandatory here and if you don't bother waiting, everybody will get the ships for free anyway, in a matter of (just a few) months. Actually, given just how short of a timeframe it gives you access to the new ship for ARX, I'd say buying for ARX now is really a bad business, rather than a huge advantage that's really worth. At least for the most players anyway. So, this is more like just another way players can "donate", contribute and support Fdev, masked as an early access tax. If you don't want to contribute, it's OK, just wait and you'll still get it free of charge. Where's the p2w? 3. Non-Odyssey owners can only access the new ships for ARX. Well, the new ships are presented as a free extension/addition to a paid DLC. Fdev could in fact release them as a separate, independent paid DLC (like a lot of other games are doing), and cash in from all players, Odyssey or not. But they didn't do that, they're offering them as free content to Odyssey players. Now, if we are to expect only free new content from a game that's supposed to be "life service", while keeping both the game and the company alive, I think we are fooling ourselves. How is Fdev supposed to make money and pay monthly wages, by releasing only free content? I'm sure Fdev hopes that some people will catch up and purchase Odyssey in order to access this new "Odyssey only" content, but I don't see anything wrong with that. If you don't like the new content, you don't buy the new content (including Odyssey). If you want to keep up with the content, keep up in full. It's no surprise how DLC prerequisites are working, and it's not in any way limited to Fdev/ED. It's a business model, it works equally for the entire gaming industry. I don't see what Fdev does differently here.. Where's the p2w? 4. Pre-built ships. So you get to skip a lot of grinding to get to (what the community itself calls as) some fairly mediocre but still working builds. On one hand, we complain about the grind, but then we complain if there's any way to skip it entirely. Maybe we don't want others to benefit from it, knowing just how long it took us to get there. This is an understandable frustration, but then there's no other way to please everybody. At least, with this change along the reworking of the engineering system, ED would be more approachable for everybody, new and old players. It's an improvement long overdue and a lot of people requested it one way or another. It's a change that will speed up the process, not something that would give anyone an advantage over everybody else, available only for real money. So, where's the p2w? p2w should give you an advantage only real money can buy. As in, RM will always beat IGM. This is not the case here, with Fdev/ED. All changes allow for buying convenience for RM. One thing Fdev did and can be counted against them is the fact they promised cosmetic-only purchases for ARX. This indeed changes here. It's a departure from the old model, but..... after 10yrs and given the current state of the game, the old model is not sustainable anymore. So change is bound to happen, if ED is to live on. Giving out only free content/updates to everybody is nice, we all love free stuff, but it's not going to keep ED alive. Salaries are a monthly expense. Servers are a monthly expense. Rent is a monthly expense. Company taxes are of a fixed frequency. For a so-called "live service" game, I'm surprised (and happy) they didn't turn to subscriptions. Between 1) subscriptions, 2) everything paid DLC and 3) real and predatory microtransaction based p2w, I think Fdev decided on the lesser evil here. And no, I still don't think it's a textbook p2w. But the mass hysteria seems to be real though ...

[@andysherris7949]

So unless this is a fully engineered G5 A rated ship and you get to pick the modules I'm not sure how it's pay to win. Win what exactly? Every ship I have in the game is fully engineered for the purpose I have for it. Combat PVE & PVP builds, mining, materials gathering, Exploration. If I don't have a purpose for it I don't have it. I'm not a collector of ships just for the sake of it.

[@lulzlen]

Gutamaya andy here. Ngl, i'd open my wallet real quick for any and all Gutamaya variants lol.

[@Fractal379]

Aha, another who shares my kryptonite.

[@wr0ngel]

Same here. Shut up and take my money lol.

[@miso-ge1gz]

this is perfectly fine as long as they don't make the grind worse

[@regau2136]

I agree somewhat with the notion that purchasing pre-built ships may lead a new player to exiting the game earlier than if they had played through. Perhaps a compromise would be that players could purchase pre-built ships with or without engineering, early in the game, but only able to fly them once they had reached a certain level of proficiency in the field the ship has been designed/engineered for. One feature I would like to see is the ability to sell, rent, lease a Fleet Carrier to another player.

[@niMBis]

I always felt with the surplus of credits available later in the game, we should be able to buy the materials needed at the engineers themselves to get the work done. Give you another reason to go, aside from Ex Effects.

[@AxlePlaysGames]

War Thunder player here. It’s not as bad as you think in Elite

[@user-mv3qm4qh8l]

But elite promised they won't go to that route... War thunder started as pay to win, elite dangerous began being one

[@personaltitanfloroc4790]

Russia also made a non-aggression pact with Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR

[@Fractal379]

@@personaltitanfloroc4790 14,00 dead Ukrainians over 8 years, most of Russian descent and killed on the orders of the Ukrainian government...yeah, non-aggression pacts are based on non-aggression. Not to mention inviting NATO to set up home, Zelensky openly asking for nukes, Banderite nazis officially serving in the UAF, WWII revisionism, persecution of Ukrainian Christians of the Orthodox faith, the Odessa Massacre and initial US coup of 2014. As for ED, and digital products in general, switching business models...change or die. It's not pretty, but even smaller enterprises sometimes have to make decisions to survive (yes, and maintain lifestyle, secure 'pesnsion' and pre-buff taxes) which we may not have wanted to make when seting out the vision, and all that. Build it, sell it.

[@KajuTheRudeMonke]

I know it looks not "as bad", but it's usually how the invasive p2w starts.

[@danielreplogle9352]

Yeah, so we could all have the Python Mark 2 in a week and a half or so, but instead we have to wait until August (or pay cash). They're not offering a preview, the ship is ready. So, right off the bat, they are making the game a little worse for cash. The pre-built ships are pretty bad, the laser mining ship includes a pulse wave analyzer and a single 1A collector limpet controller. The AX ship runs hot enough to get you destroyed pretty quickly, even if you know what you're doing. I don't know if they're going to sell many of these ships at all, they seem more like the kind of garbage build put out to calm people down. They're just a non-offensive start. I am still playing Elite, but FDev managed to wipe out all the optimism I had after they announced their plans a couple months ago. I am watching the engineering updates, because I could see them offering better pre-built ships with more engineering and then "fixing" the material grind by cutting the requirements in half - but correcting the relogging glitch everyone uses to farm high grades.

[@kempo79]

It depends. FDev said new python will have new features, we assume somehow connected with new content, PP 2.0 probably. If that's the case - this feature either won't be active or it will be useless until we get new PP. So - until this update Mk2 will be just another ship, with nothing special about it.

[@adiedri38]

People complaining about buying a ship with Arks. How many people have bought ship kits, paints etc. with Ark after buying said Arks, come on.

[@danielreplogle9352]

@adiedri38 Clearly not enough people bought paint or ship kits, or we wouldn't be here. What Frontier is doing now isn't game breaking. They're not even in the same league as Star Citizen. It is a foot in the door, a line has been crossed. Personally, I'm not sure this is Frontier's choice. It could be coming from the investors. Tencent is involved, after all

[@adiedri38]

Agreed. People are loosing their shit over nothing. Typical social bollocks and ramping up crap

[@KajuTheRudeMonke]

@@danielreplogle9352 Tencent is involved? Oh god, oh man! OH NO!

[@yutman4532]

Thanks for your personnal thoughts. Very well thought out. My biggest concern is in open play and the rebuy cost of these ships. Apparently they can rebuy for 0 credits. Having been a very long Eve online player this would be disasterous and the PVP community would exploit it terribly, causing normal players to leave. Elite is a bit different so im abit on the fence but very nervous about the possible end result.

[@draconicproductionsinactiv5717]

I hope p2w doesn’t happen. I feel like pre-built ships should just be like where you can get that and you still have to buy the stuff with in-game money (credits).

[@CMDR_Shokwave]

I want an Engineering module/wing for my Fleet Carrier. Grants us 3X materials storage in exchange for some carrier capacity. Also, it would allow us to hire an engineers apprentice for a small weekly salary or credit cost per use, kinda like a crewman. You hire them directly from the engineer and the apprentice could possibly have a leveling system to reach master and be as material efficient as the regular engineer. This way, we could get whatever we need done to a module, including experimental effects, anywhere we happen to be in the galaxy.

[@Thorned_Rose]

Thank the gods for an actually decent video without clickbait language and BS riddled through it. I'm so very tired of the entitlement in the gaming community and KZbinrs that feed off of it through whipping up fake outrage and clickbait driven discourse. Too many people ready to spout clickbait titles as fact instead of waiting for the actual details or gross exaggeration just so they can jump on the outrage bandwagon. This video and comment section is like a breath of fresh air and some sanity!

[@gho5tspartan26yt]

What farming method is that? 4:45 You're shooting antimony and collecting it instantly? How?

[@ArpadLukacs]

Finally someone on KZbin who actually makes sense on this topic

[@christopherdaffron8115]

Will the rebuy fee also come with the purchase of the pre-built ship or will they have free insurance?

[@HawkesGaming]

Rebuy for 0 I believe....

[@christopherdaffron8115]

@@HawkesGaming Well if it's true that these RMT ships come with free rebuys then that is definitely a Pay to Win feature as the same ship bought with in-game credits would have a big rebuy cost.

[@SpaceDad42]

It is the fault of gamers. No self control.

[@DurokSubaka]

If this is what they have to do to get new people in doctrine into the system and playing again so be it. It’s not going to affect me whatsoever been playing since day one. My ships are leaps and bounds beyond theirs, and the fact that you can’t trade any of the modules 0:07 makes it even less an issue

[@davedanter]

Ive been waiting for the green light to exploration in EDO, never really touched exploration before, and have been hesitant due to FD silence and luke warm development. Cant wait. PS: and of course exploration has always been there.

[@mauricester]

Another Great Video , Mr. Hawkes always enjoy your upbeat attitude towards this game, 👍 , some other content creators,, not so much 😒 I dropped off of Elite for a long time now,, ( I probably have to re-learn all the controlls again),, played Star Citizen for a while,, and YEAH droped a bit of real Life Money on that game,,,, Totally agree with you , that is F Dev had adopted that Business model they would have been in better shape ,, they would have been able to get good game coders,, and development teams together by paying their staff accordignly ,, ( I heard sever left to work on Star Citizen) ALL that said,, glad to see you are still making Elite Videos here,, Take care Good Man,,, o7

[@adamriley2053]

Seems like a good way to get new players in and up to speed to enjoy the game. More players and more money coming in from the game means more development and more content to keep the money coming in. This is a good thing. Elite cannot survive in its current form and with the same player base. I don’t really get why people are complaining as it’s a path for new players, you can still spend hours grinding your hearts out and it not affect you. The slippery slope arguments as well all seem to focus on it leading to pure pay to win and negating all the grind people have put into the game and enjoy, but as far as I can tell the game loops they love aren’t going away for changing so you can still enjoy those parts of the game that myself and many other people, especially new players, find overwhelming, difficult to get in to, and tedious. I think people should just be happy the fdev are trying to find a way to keep the game alive and valuable enough to their shareholders to keep investing the time, energy, and money needed for a live service game.

[@wr0ngel]

The Sky is probably not falling. Otoh: I'd pay for a Medium Gutamaya Imperial ship early access, no questions asked. Pay2Win is pretty meh concern, when the game has no Win condition, and most players just chill in Solo or Private Groups, drooling over their stuff and doing mundane tasks. For Open, and PvP, as long as there is no OP cash shop instant win Modules and Weapons, money can't beat skill, so just chill the f*ck out. Fdev needs money, they do what Star Citizen does, end of story.

[@starcrushergaming9810]

Im my opinion this is great for game, considering the game was literally dying before our eyes with lack of funding, nothing you can buy in the store can't be earned for free in-game. And if you watch Hawkes videos you can probably do it faster than an electronic payment😂 so load the store i say give us a variety of things, revenue means more content more ships more development more elite and for me thats a win because id rather see a cash op than one of my favorite games dissappear or go into maintenance mode... 07

[@Feroand]

The reason why I stopped playing this game is the endless grind. I love the feeling when I do something with my ship, definitely. But, I don't want to do the thing over and over again. If I got bored and decide to do something else, I have to spend hours and hours to go to my other ship, change some loadout, find a place to do the second thing. And, I probably give a break between these processes, that mean I have to remember what I was going to do. With this pre-made ship kits, I can just jump into the action. At least, this is what I was hoping for.

[@tigger4000]

It's fine. I enjoy building new ships - if people want to spend money to get a lesser version of what can be built (and support FDev in the process)...then that's fine. None of us really know what's going to happen the first time we drop into a Thargoid Titan...but having more players around can only be a good thing! (and a reduced rebuy will hopefully encourage new players...while again, rebuy is _really_ not a consideration for veteran Cmdrs)

[@stevenboughner7255]

This makes Me think, Will they remove the Rank wall for Ships in the game?

[@HawkesGaming]

At one point I was thinking the final rank with federal and empire would finally have meaning with some jumbo ship.

[@gamingwelle]

Tbh I think it ain't that bad to have to buy ships with arx. Either you pay for the ship or for Odyssey. Either way I think it's fair to pay for new content.

[@HomerNarr]

Servers don't pay them selfes. I don't have an ARX ship, because i did not have the time to grind everything I do not gank, sorry i mean i don't PvP, so there is no "Pay to Win". If it would keep ED alive i would consider paying by sub. I have a job and ED is a hobby. Not as expensive as other hobbies can be. No, i don't hate it.

[@ottertok]

Love the game but I have 35 billion in credits and nothing to sped it on.

[@pandafoz9994]

I just dont think that many people would actually buy prebuilt ships. Early access to new ships isnt necessary a bad thing because they do need to make money. its just a bit shitty that they're doing that after they didnt add any for 6 years.

[@HawkesGaming]

What I am relieved to hear after I made this video is there are no plans to have end game ships as pre built options. For me just the thought of buying a fully kitted anaconda was a bit much. Newbish ships totally fine with that cause in reality it's less than an hour mooching kills in a res site to buy it with in game credits. I also have no issue with selling pre released ships early to help fdev make some money. Only real concern with that is if you buy a pre released ship you are not supposed to have a rebuy so you cant lose it if you die and have no credits to cover. Thats kind of an advantage in open sort of.

[@saberling]

love you, bud!

[@golferchin76]

This company needs pay to win scheme to survive. I think it is fine for me. If others help to fund this game, it's an all win for main player base, the dev, the players who don't have much time or patience but have money. But honestly, the dev is not offering 'pay to win' stuff. These pre built stuffs are far from OP builds I think.

[@Bradrackas]

Alas I stopped playing Elite about the time Odyssey came out but for so many reasons. I couldn’t agree more with you about the materials grind. A game that requires you to log out and log in multiple times just to progress is fundamentally broken and has been for years. And there appears to be no appetite in FDev to think outside the box with making the gameplay engaging. Make it so that Commanders can become material traders from their fleet carriers for example. Add some much needed variety to the game and the missions. Everything is just rinse and repeat! They are sitting on a goldmine of the whole f’ing Milky Way galaxy but everything is just so samey. And don’t get me started on the VR question! “Flying a f’ing spaceship” as Exigeous put it was the reason to play Elite rather than Star Citizen…

[@Sighman]

The only people who keep relogging to gather materials are people who watched videos on relogging to gather materials. There's zero reason to play the game that way. HGEs keep spawning while you're flying around in a system, if that's your bag. For me, doing AX missions fills up my encoded and manufactured mats over a few sessions, and I have more than enough of everything once I visit a material trader. If not AX, then passenger missions, combat missions, mining to gather raws, combat + limpets to gather almost all mats, etc, etc. Relogging is a fool's game.

[@franc8023]

plot twist: i dont have a credit card

[@lagunist1078]

In a game where a significant amount of people don't even play in open... what are you even winning? Paying for ships, or for that matter anything, doesn't affect jack. They'll get more money and work on the game. I'd call that a win.

[@wstavis3135]

Exactly

[@marmalade6681]

Nothing is OP or exclusive to spending money to get.. the Python mk2 is just an early access not exclusive. Other companies would have bundled all 4 of the new ships into an addon package sold for real money before you can use it. Im not sure what the specs of the Python mk2 are, but is it possible it may have something build into it that requires odyssey? I dont know.. But i do know that a lot of games you cant get new things until your expansions are up to date.. Not sure. TBH Ive been expecting fdev to pull sales and announce the closure of the server.. so i thnk what they are doing now may be a 'lets give it a last shot' type of thing to see if it stops losing money.. Servers and staff arent cheap.. They do have to make money. IM NOT saying Hawke did and TBH have no idea if he did or not anyway..so dont go there!.. So far from videos that content creators have put out i have seen 2 that are against the pre-packaged ships for r/l money saying people shouldnt get an easy path its pay to win.. etc etc.. BS stuff.. Yet they are also ones that used the FC money trade exploit to friends and alts etc.. I hope they read this! Anyways.. Good vid as usual mate :p EDIT:- 7.. yes, 7 typo's :( i suck.. Also.. the above is jyst my opinion! youre free to form your own opinions.. please do form your own opinions :)

[@erensio]

It's time to visit Sag'A before end.

[@AtlasGaming4k]

I though you left the game

[@KralTube2]

Will you be updating your guides for how to make money fast in Elite: Dangerous to include swiping a credit card?

[@jonpeck2264]

I'm sick of seeing people crying about pay to win, when most of the activities you can do in this game requires skill and knowledge, things you can't buy with cash Frontier needs money, why can't anyone see this. I don't know about you guys but I love this game and I want the company who made it to prosper, if your so concerned about "pay to win" how about donate some money to Frontier, put your money where your mouth is. Side note, a noob can't fight thargoids no matter what ship they pay for

[@alphaspectre4835]

I won't speak for everyone, but I don't fully agree with you. I don't think pre-builts are pay-to-win, but they still provide a level of power and benefit that is tangible and effective. After spending $13 worth of ARX, they are available anywhere, any time, and for free. This completely removes risk from the game as you no longer fear rebuy, the primary punishment for dying, and you don't need to pay to transfer your ship when you can just 'buy' another one. I'm not particularly worried about the Python Mk2 being sold, but if they ever start selling Anacondas, particularly if they're fitted with even marginally decent equipment, than that will 100% be pay-to-win. I refuse to allow that to happen, so I'm drawing the line here. As for the 'putting your money where your mouth is', I did. I paid full-price for the base game, I paid full-price for Horizons, I paid NEARLY full-price for Odyssey, and I've spent a little on ARX in the past. Despite my choice of words and the perceived tone of this comment, I want you to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you said is the most insulting, pompous, pig-headed, rot-brained excuse for words I have ever heard from a non-corporate entity, and you should be ashamed of yourself. It is not the job of the consumer to 'donate' money to the developer with the HOPE of the game getting better. That's not how this works. The developer makes a good product, the consumer buys the good product, the developer makes ANOTHER good product. We are not investors, we are consumers, and you'd be wise to remember the difference. If Fdev want to make more money, they should be looking at what aspects of the game need rebalancing, tweaking, or bug fixing, not increasing ARX costs in the store or locking ships behind a 3-month long paywall. They are choosing to force money out of us instead of earning it, and that's not a practice or behavior you should reward.😊

[@andreyyeskin4402]

For a solo play, this probably no big deal and lets casual player dip their toes in too more advanced content. If you are open play player, this is probably the beginning of the end. This companies cant control them self when money start too pour in.

[@Ragetiger1]

I'm glad that SC doesn't have fully kitted out ships in the pledge store, That's just asking for trouble. Every ship, standalone or part of a package, is the boring default build, nothing extra - outside of possible paint. Didn't even know about the ship kits in ED, gives them a little bit of extra personality with the parts that can be attached to the existing ship without changing any of its stats. For both games, it doesn't really look nor feel like a pay to win, it's more like a pay to skip the grind. Though, I like the grind. . . some of the time. It gives that nice warm fuzzies when you finally get that new ship or expensive upgrade. However, the Arx store does seem to signal that it MIGHT want to sell engineered ship, which would be a huge kick in the balls for those that put in the effort to acquire.

[@davedanter]

'Im glad that SC doesn't have fully kitted out ships in the pledge store'', yet!. Ide def buy loaded ships, yet SC is soon to have components locked to ship type/Grade/Class, so no more dropping whatever, where. There is no sutch thing as P2W, its just convenience over grind, i dont do grind over covering the basics, which for a month will only take a couple of hours. Exciting times for both games, seems Chris has been whispering in his mates ear. Good times PS: Star Atlas has ships in the region of $5000,000 real money, and in Star Citizen you can buy a Capital, and crew it easily as a noob.....that is P2W, over a noob with an Aurora. My wallet is deep, and i retired at 39, 3 years ago, so have the luxury and convenience of 24/7.

[@cetifoxproductions]

Oh, good grief, just fork over $12 for the Arx. I'm so tired of people being so cheap they're not willing spend chump change. It's NOT pay2win. The new ships aren't a necessary thing, period. Every single player can "win" (which really isn't even a thing in ED) using any of the ships currently available, and they can already do whatever engineering they need. As for pre-built ships, they made it very clear: It's simply a QUICKER way to do what is ALREADY a thing you can do in the game now. AND the pre-built ships are only moderately upgraded from the base models. There are no special, unique modules or engineering that are only available if you buy a pre-built. Again, NOT pay2win. While you had a good point about the example of the AX Combat Chieftain, that example actually works better in the context of someone who has limited their gameplay to mining or exploration, but started experiencing some FOMO and wants to try their hand at me-too Titan-killing without having to take all the EXTENSIVE time necessary to unlock the crap you need to in order to even outfit a BASIC AX ship. My commander is exactly in that situation. I've only ever been interested in exploration, and only did the mining, trading and combat stuff because the GRIND YOU ARE FORCED INTO just to unlock engineering or modules existed. If I wanted to try out AX combat, being able to buy a pre-built is absolutely perfect. I will fight anyone on this: It's not pay2win.

[@user-ji7lb2bh5j]

Player 1: plays solo Player 2: plays solo Player 1: don't spend money Player 2: spend money Nothing happens.

[@cetifoxproductions]

Or Player 2 quickly executes a version of the Road to Riches path that many have, gets a Python Mk2 while Player 1 has maybe graduated to a Hauler. Both meet in open. Player 2 kills Player 1. The fact is, all this means is a difference in the speed at which people can acquire better ships. In your lame example, Player 2 buying access to a better ship doesn't guarantee he/she has a clue how to actually use the ship any better than Player 1 in the Sidewinder. Just because Player 2 could buy a better ship sooner doesn't mean Player 1 COULDN'T. $9 is a cheap investment. Experience is a worthwhile one.

[@jackblack_2001]

Ok... So, let me just correct a little detail in your statement you maybe havent considerer. For ex. i work from 9-6 (with traveling and sometimes getting out of work late, its more 9-8:30), so i arrive home, sit my fatass in front of my pc, and go play elite, lets say i have arround 2H for gaming (ive not, around 1H to 1:30 depending of the days) and i want to get my "feet wet" into the new content, this is actualy a good thing, with some "bread crumps" i can get ready to enjoy the new content, isnt it? I live in a EU contry, the base base salary is around 850€, i need light, gas, eletricity, thats arround 150€, ive a house to pay, as by now, thats around 450-500€, humm, i need food, the "Goods Basket" here in my country is 250€, and i have a car, and everyone who have a car, knows that is like an inverted loterry, and, when you win, you pay, A LOT. At the end of the month, its arround 50-100€ left for me. 12$ ~= 13-14€ Make the math, i can buy 7-8 of this things per month! And neglect all the rest of my other necessities... So yap, i would say that is that cheap, but ok.

[@cetifoxproductions]

@@jackblack_2001 16,800 Arx is currently 9.59 Pounds, or 11.21 Euros. I'm not sure why someone would use the Arx method every time to acquire pre-built ships, but different strokes for different folks. Anyway, the ships available in the Arx store, and everything that comes with them, is available to you WITHOUT Arx. And you do still earn Arx as you play. I routinely have 4,000-6,000 built up just from playing (I haven't historically bought a lot of stuff in the Arx store). But there is literally NOTHING stopping any player from buying ships, modules, engineering them the traditional way. I've acquired every ship in the game, more than two times over, all via the traditional method. And, literally, the only reason I'm interested in the Arx option for pre-built ships is to acquire the new Python MkII early. If they weren't making it available early, guess what: I'd just buy the ship with credits, like everyone else. If someone of are looking at this like "all the ships, all the time" will be bought with Arx, and only those who have a "ton of disposable cash" will get them, then you're just simply wrong. At the moment, Frontier has indicated they will have certain "career-centric" pre-built ships (starting off, Mining and AX-combat, but will probably add Exploration, PvP and Trading). COULD they expand to do this with the other ships? Sure. They'll probably wait to see how popular and profitable this is first. And they'll probably stick to having early-adopter access to NEW ships in the future. Finally, back on the Arx thing, I won't be surprised if they take the cap off the Arx earning process. And I don't know why most players wouldn't at least through a few dollars/pounds/euros into the Arx store (www.elitedangerous.com/store/arx) every once in a while to simply build up their "savings" in case they DO want to buy a pre-built ship down the road. So, unless the ONLY way to acquire the ships was behind a paywall, you can't call this P2W. You simply can't.

[@geoDunkleAura]

Damn I’m 5th

[@misterprecocious2491]

Gave up on EDO along time ago, will stick with NMS.

[@2wardruid2]

Havent bought Odyssey so far and this new amazing decision wont change this 😅

[@ottolehikoinen6193]

Skipping the initial horror of flying E-class ships could be nice if ever taking on a second account or deleting the commander. Fully C-class ships are playable, even on light combat, so selling a set of c-class ships for new players might be an idea. Python Mk2 is tempting and the ax-prebuilt, but will wait until I hear specs on Mk2 and as you can't swap the good parts from the ax-ship to another ship, I just need to do the three day operation to get those gausses.

[@dhyde2025]

Meh. I haven’t logged on in over a year. Still not really feeling the urge.

[@godofm3tal1]

Hallmark of a dying game. "Here's a bunch of new stuff cuz we know the old stuff ain't cutting it anymore but yea you gonna have to come out of pocket". It's natural though. I mean, this is an old ass game. Those devs need to pay bills and they're certainly not sustaining off the $40 or whatever people paid for the game 10 years ago. Cosmetics are cool but usually too cheap. What else can they honestly sell? Can't sell anything people can't already get with in game currency easily. It sucks but I understand it too. If people want continued support from the developers they kinda need to pay for it. ED doesn't charge a monthly sub so.. optional shit you don't really need to give you a slight edge is the bill that's due.

[@mazztothemax1888]

I was keen to play again to get new python and try the new changes. But if you can just pay with Cash to buy ships, I'm done. Sad. Uninstalling. I'm sick of how the gaming community have allowed game makers to go down this route.

[@wstavis3135]

Bye

[@Garryck-1]

So just continue playing the game.. you'll still get your Python.. just in a few months, instead of now. That's hardly P2W.

[@mazztothemax1888]

@Garryck-1 it just devalues my play time amongst the community. In a single player game I'd agree, as this is a multiplayer game it's horrible.

[@adamriley2053]

It doesn’t really devalue anything. It’s for new players and another way for fdev to support the game financially. All multiplayer games offer this as a means to continue to develop. Unless you want fdev to turn the servers off for the game?

[@Garryck-1]

@@mazztothemax1888 - If it totally outclassed all of your own ships, I might agree. But we both know that won't be the case.

[@alezandercorben4122]

No it is not pay to win at all.

[@alezandercorben4122]

Fdev don’t want you to save up in game arx, they want you to buy arx to keep the servers on. If you want to keep playing elite then buy arx!

[@cyberblitz]

My concerns are once you have paid real money for a ship, and destroy it for whatever reason, can you purchase it back, and if so, what happens if you don't have enough credits? New players are unlikely to think about re-buy costs. Will you lose your ship if you don't have enough re-buy credits?? Also, will you be able to transfer the modules out of these pre-built ships? I heard you will not be able to.

[@Sighman]

Rebuy is zero credits, plus the rebuy on any new modules you fit to it.

[@cyberblitz]

@@Sighman what if you apply your own engineered modules to the ship, even swapping out the ones bought pre-engineered, will you still have a rebuy cost of zero? Can u swap out the bought pre-engineered modules?

[@Kellett781]

The pre ship thing is not anything I will take advantage of. I spent a year unlocking everything, mat grinding and the rest of it. F dev made money off me from base game and a carrier kit and voice. I think as long as they use this cash grab to advance and do more for Elite, it’s not a bad thing. But if they use the money to push more trash games out, then they basically deserve what they get.

[@Sloganlogo]

Not pay to win

[@user-mv3qm4qh8l]

It is. You can buy fully upgraded ships eventually... WHAT THE F*CK That is literally pay to win!

[@Sloganlogo]

Where you read that. The specs FDEV released don't show that. Also what are you winning Elite is an MMO you can't win the game

[@Sighman]

@@user-mv3qm4qh8l Where's the press release saying you can buy fully upgraded ships?

[@Nugget_Bucket]

yes it is bye

[@wstavis3135]

Don't let the door hit ya....

[@KajuTheRudeMonke]

Straight and simple as that.

[@cmdrls212]

4:32 correction. Star citizen doesn't not sell pre built upgraded ships. They sell ships with the same base components as the ship is sold in game, which is basically the worse version of the ship that everyone will start with. A long, long time ago they sold components, but later walked back that choice and killed the voyager direct store and refunded everyone who had bought a component upgrade. All upgrades to a ship need to be done in game ever since, and with the exception of a very few kits released as conversion kits for very special ships over the years, star citizen has never really been interested in prefit kits as a major source of revenue or even design. Ships in star citizen are more purpose built and more purpose locked as they have interiors and can't swap roles via load outs as it is the case with elite. Fdev is really going a step further by not just selling the ship, but selling engineered components. Hopefully cloud imperium does not follow this path as not being able to buy upgrades meant at least people that buy a ship in game start at the same point somebody who used cash....

[@ubermeg]

I'm very disappointed in you Hawkes. Just because it's proven business model doesn't make it right. And just because they say they are "investigating" positive Engineering changes and reduce the grind, does not mean they will. It's FDev remember, not exactly famous for keeping promises. By selling pre-engineerd ships for cash, where is the incentive to rebalance engineering? There isn't any At least you called it pay to win, most people seem to be in denial.

[@HawkesGaming]

Disappointed in me for stating the obvious? Where did I agree or disagree? It was a statement about the shift in business model. Asking if you're surprised...

[@user-mv3qm4qh8l]

Welp... Goodbye cmdrs until a better space sim

[@ScottSlooper]

It's P2W, and that by itself is anathema. I have defended ED for years against people who still play and I quit over this first. Didn't expect that one at all. So sad to say goodbye to ED, but just can't stay with P2W. I do think it will grow and others who are less radical on this sensitivity to P2W than I will also become unhappy.

[@MODFARMER]

For those of us with a couple thousand hours in grinding and patience and grinding some more, I feel the pay to win stuff discredits my hard work and is kind of a slap in the face from the devs. The struggle and lack of tutorial is part of the experience. But I guess they had to generate new interest somehow. I feel this decision alienates the core player base who has struggled from the beginning. But I digress.

[@Sighman]

The prebuilts are nowhere near as good as custom built ships. They're just a stepping stone to get new players (or people with only a little time to play each week) straight into the action.

[@OhCheez]

I would still play ED every day if it werent for them dropping console support. I purchased ED on steam and now my grief is having to fork up money for decent HOTAS that wont drift after a week

[@XenoZbornak]

They're going this route then they really should make the game free to play. I'd love to have an Alt account that I can start over with, but I'm not paying for the game twice.

[@Sighman]

The base game is on sale for about $6 now and then. Hence I've ended up with 5 accounts. I really enjoy starting a new account and building them up, and that $6-$10 is better value for me than buying some AAA game which I'll play for 20 hours and never look at again.

[@XenoZbornak]

@@Sighman well that doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way. Odyssey?

[@kamirupl]

Odyssey is dirty cheap now.

[@thecursingexplorer138]

Heaven forbid they actually make a real expansion, make real new ships, not just variants, gave us odyssey vr, and base building.

[@NeoFao]

The only thing I don't like is the 3 months early access. Anything longer than a week is too much.

[@walawala-fo7ds]

Well desperation hits fdev. Pay to win is just about all they can do to try and appease shareholders and tencent.

[@edt6290]

Where is all of the outrage? Ships for REAL money! OMG! Just like CIG.... huh... You would think that with all the shade that my fellow ED player's put out on this one topic alone that there would be a firestorm of blacklash. But nary a peep.

[@FictionCautious]

ED - one of the most grindy, monotonous, boring and unimaginative games available.

[@space_ghost2809]

grindy and boring maybe. unimaginative in terms of gameplay, yes. But it has some great aspects and creativity into it.

[@wstavis3135]

"Blah, blah, blah (insert any other "better" game here) is what you should play." Just go away. If you don't like the game, stay out of its content bro.

[@Garryck-1]

@@wstavis3135 - Probably another SC simp.

[@Fractal379]

@@Garryck-1 You do know that many space gamers play both, amongst many other games right?

[@gizmo104drives7]

And yet I'm having loads of fun...

[@KajuTheRudeMonke]

"Is Pay 2 Win Really Happening in Elite Dangerous Odyssey?" YES.

[@wstavis3135]

I'm so tired of this "p2w" crap. Win what and how? The player base and some content creators are absolutely schizo and ridiculous. Fdev must have income to keep Elite running and content flowing. They have introduced nothing that is game breaking. They haven't even hinted at anything game breaking. If the introduced a Raxxla early access for say $50, but said in a year it will be $10 or free, how many people would pay for that? Most I think. Look how many bought the ridiculously bugged, completely not ready Odyssey. I have no problem with anything Fdev is trying to do. Chill people.

[@trigg-n7309]

Completely agree with you. There is absolutely no need to engage with the ARX store if you don't want to (and I am willing to bet most long-standing players have a boat ton of ARX saved up anyway - I know I do. And if newer players want to spend a bit of money for a leg up into the game, that is fine by me). If Fdev makes more money they are likely to spend it continuing to develop and add content to this extraordinary game. They have announced no new content available through ARX that won't be available to everyone. I have 800 hours in game (a relative noob compared to some), and I would happily drop a few bucks on a pre-built exploration ship for my Alt account so I don't have to spend hours grinding engineering mats for two accounts! Some people will bitch whatever Fdev does - and it's the same whenever they announce anything new. Personally, I am excited to see the changes, for powerplay 2.0 and whatever the new feature will be. Long may the development and support for this game continue!

[@josefodium8888]

People like you is why the game industry is in such a deep guano right now.

[@Sighman]

It's only 6 months ago the youtube comment trails on ED videos were full of people demanding the game be sold to a AAA publisher. Instead, Fdev have figured out a very mild way to get the game to pay, without going loot crates or pay 2 win. Now those same people are complaining that FDev is adding some minor monetisation to the game, which will have *zero impact* on existing players, but has lots of upside for new players. You know, the new players any game needs if it's going to continue to exist. Plus any AAA publisher out there would have turned ED into a cash grab in a matter of months, then shut it down.