Is Pentimento Too Strong Or Do Players Not Understand - Dead by Daylight

tl;dr Pentimento is insanely strong but I don't think it warrants a nerf, people just need to play around it better.
/ scottjund

[@chanceplace6057]

The problem is all it takes is one teammate who doesn't understand it to game end the survivor team completely. Yes its up to the survivors to give it to the killer, and that's why its a solo Q destroyer because liability of the weak link on your team is tripled while its in play.

[@ScottJund]

Definitely true, but you can still be the parent to the solo queue children and look where the totems are exploding and still deal with it.

[@folon12]

@@ScottJund Well... people cleanse dull totems too....

[@ScottJund]

@@folon12 i mean at that point you're probably fucked anyway if you have teammates running around breaking dull totems

[@originalyoutubername5188]

@@folon12They must be legacy players.

[@Reinami66]

This is literally by definition and design how a team based game works. Killer is a single player non-team based role. By design the survivors are a team and must work together and if they can't they SHOULD lose.

[@D-Doc-C]

Classic Scott gaslighting survivors into not cleansing hex perks so he can run his cheeky totem build

[@SonnyJim173]

Yeah right, he's the first one crying about anything killer being Slightly to strong

[@hauntedartworks]

@@SonnyJim173I hope your reply is a joke, cause the comment certainly was

[@tiltwebberson6750]

@@SonnyJim173tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video. All he did was call out survivors for cleansing dull totems

[@marche434]

​@@SonnyJim173 scott aint as much of a yesman as all the other streamers, pretty much all of them just say what their audience wants to hear (mostly survivor mains), scott is still a yesman sometimes but he is a lot more reasonable most of the time

[@NightOX23]

Solo teammate: cleanses their plaything Solo teammate after killer uses pentimento on it: not my job

[@LiterallyPaulGeorge]

Literally lmao it’s not my job to find the totem you JUST CLEANSED

[@saihiko9967]

Pretty much

[@brenogoda388]

That’s why I’m glad I don’t do solo q. I’m the designated totem guy on the team due to running inner strength and knowing most totem spawns. Makes things easier to eliminate penti as quickly as possible

[@saphloop]

@@brenogoda388designated totem guy LMAO 😭

[@brenogoda388]

@@saphloop laugh all you want until you can’t find that last penti totem lmao

[@nijikajies]

I think just 'not cleansing' any totems as a rule to avoid pentimento isn't a strong argument for it. I see it as a problem that the perk is so strong that, in your solution, survivors have to completely ignore an entire side objective and having the game boil down yet again to gen rush. It's hard to nerf it without it becoming worthless like you said, but it's still not healthy that when hexs are in play you have to assume pentimento is as well, and thus ignore an entire mechanic

[@snkybrki]

Right, if the *potential* of a particular perk is so scary as to influence your gameplay, that's a bad sign about its balance. Like how the old DS would deincentivize killers going for hooks after downing someone who was hooked recently.

[@irregularassassin6380]

Great point. That's why they adjusted Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, and Borrowed Time. Maybe it's time to do that here?

[@xirolyfe]

@@irregularassassin6380i hate it when games have metas that never change. it shouldn’t be the case that killers are forced to use possibly multiple gen slowdown perks, like pain res + pop, every single game. it makes the game boring, with each game being not “is there slowdown?” but rather “which slowdown is it?” most other games I’ve played played balance things at least relatively close to each other, so that the meta can shift over time without the need to physically adjust anything. clash royale is a great example, where a previously overshadowed card can become meta, or at least more viable, by the use of another card, or lack thereof.

[@someguy86]

Also penti existing can give so much free value - if survivors purposely dont cleanse ruin, crown control, etc because penti even is a perk in the game is kinda silly

[@felix135ful]

While i disagree with it not being a strong argument, i agree it is an arguments, just not a strong one. Would you say the same thing about killers that had to change their playstyle up bcs of DeadHard and or DStrike?

[@DarthVader964]

Your counter argurment dont interact with this part of the game. Which is bad game design already. Not to mention other teamates will cleanse totems already.

[@ScottJund]

How is it bad game design? It's like saying Sloppy Butcher is bad game design because you shouldn't interact with the healing mechanic. Don't attack people or you'll give them Mettle of Man. Don't kick pallets or you'll get Flashlight Champion of Lightd

[@patigue952]

@@ScottJund The difference is that these things you mentioned are NECESSARY to play the game, killers can't kill without hitting survivors, killer have to break pallets to reach survivors, and survivors can't stay injured against all killers all the time, the mechanics of hitting, healing, chasing and repairing gens are fundamental for the gameplay loop But totems and hexes are not necessary for the progression of the game, they are very much side objetives, with a risk-reward system for killers, pentimento is designed badly BECAUSE it breaks the whole thing. It punishes survivors for doing side objectives, instead of just focusing on gens, and it removes the risk and reward aspect of hexes, by rewarding killers anyway Not doing hexes? Well, now 5 of the windows on the map are permanetly blocked, or all survivors are permanently blinded, good luck getting any information if you're on solo queu now. Doing hexes? Now, every gen takes ~40 seconds longer or you have to go hunting for a totem some random cleansed because he had a tome challange or something. I'm sorry but that's bad game design. -sorry for bad english or grammar, english is not my first language.

[@jeffjefforson5929]

​​​​@@ScottJundYeah like the other guy said to this, at some point you *have* to heal, you *have* to hit survivors, you *have* to kick pallets. Those perks punish you somewhat for doing something you were already going to do, but this perk MASSIVELY punishes you for something you Might have done. Meaning the only good idea is to simply not do that thing - but now that means that a single perks mere existence (the killer might not even have it!) is effectively completely disabling an aspect of the game. Do you remember when they first introduced Circle of Healing, and for months it was absolutely busted? I remember you posting videos of three second self heals. Whenever the killer got rid of the totem, you could just put it somewhere else. Thinking back to that time, this single perk completely removed Hit and Run strategies from viability. It also made it nigh impossible to set up snowball situations. You just, couldn't do it. You couldn't just hit a survivor and expect them to stay injured for more than 15 seconds if you broke chase. This is similar. Granted, I think CoH was probably much worse for the game overall, but they both take options/mechanics away from the other side by their sheer existence. Still, I do think the perk - if at all - should be changed only very carefully. It should be strong enough that it makes you have to think and make an educated decision about whether or not to break the totem - rather than simply "If D.H, break. If not, leave it.". It should be strong enough that ruin, blood favour and some of the other impactful ones make you at least have to consider whether or not to break them. As you point out so frequently, the more actual Choices a player has to make, the more skill expression there is. The more skill expression, the more fun people like you and I have fun against something. Making the right or wrong call... Mm, that's where the fun be.

[@Garresh1]

​@ScottJund The other guy did a good job explaining, but more generally any mechanic that completely warps the meta around it with either no counter or the threat of it being a massive deal even when not present is bad for the game. And most of those game warping perks are themselves band-aids for bad design. Decisive Strike, Pentimento, and Dead Hard are all bad for the game, as examples. Even though they serve as counters to hex weakness and tunneling, they're still poorly designed. Though dead hard hasn't been an issue in a while admittedly.

[@dawnsluna5702]

Not a serious thought, but this feels like a bit of a killer psyop lol. "No guys, leaving my hexes up is totally safer than cleansing them, haha. Leave my Blood Favour/Crowd Control/Plaything up so I get strong perks without the downside of them being taken away, haha."

[@itzKidDope55]

Honestly rather deal with those than 30% slower gens since my teammates are already slow on doing gens in solo q

[@taragnor]

Give me ruin the entire game, and it generates the same effect if not more as pentimento. People don't realize how much value ruin gets. If you ever leave a gen to go unhook, ruin eats away it it. And the only counter to it is having multiple survivors on a gen. Of course, for that you have discordance.

[@SimplePufferfish]

What do you MEAN!? Simply win the match with plaything up. It's so easy. Killer only has 3 perks since if you don't cleanse Penti is a dead perk. Simply just win the match.

[@Arthur-jf9nj]

i tried explaining to a survivor that it’s not worth it and they said i was trying to mindgame them xD

[@itzKidDope55]

@@Arthur-jf9nj 🤣🤣

[@danowen79]

I hate that DBD shows perks but no explanation for what they are. Why can’t we just hit a button to see what perks affecting survivors actual do? We can do it with our own builds. The issue is definitely that a lot of survivors (understandably) don’t know what every perks is and what it does, let alone the best counterplay.

[@misery1500]

There is actually. It's called reading the fucking perk description on the character it comes from

[@danowen79]

@@misery1500 during a game when the icon appears?

[@incelliousthewizard7883]

@@misery1500 Imagine trying to act smug when you cant comprehend the actual comment you're replying to, LOL.

[@misery1500]

@@danowen79 If you are going into a match without at least learning each killer's own personal perks you're either ballsy af, or stupid. Also who the fuck has time, MID MATCH, which is usually when Penti appears in action, to read about what a perk does? You're asking for something that in practice is just ridiculous and wouldn't work that well, if at all

[@misery1500]

@@incelliousthewizard7883 Imagine thinking someone's being smug when they're pointing out an obvious fact, and acting smug about thinking someone is smug. Oh look, sarcasm.

[@genesisosuna]

I love going against devour hope undying plaything pentimento, it is really fun to be side questing the entire game especially if my teammates cleanse plaything , especially in the swamp maps!

[@OhItsNoctu]

Oh nyo, so sad you can't sit on your beloved gen and hold m1 all the time! :(

[@WutTheDeuceGaming]

The swamp maps have awful totem spots because the map got shrunk. Problem is, the totem spawns were never adjusted for the smaller size, which is why a lot of them are buried on the outside of the map.

[@peterpotts7482]

I don't think it's strong by itself, but plaything and pentimento is still a strong combo. It forces you to choose between two shitty options. Individually I see your point that one plaything isn't worth it, but if the 3 to 4 people have it, you're going to get snowballed if you don't break it. Who cares about slowdown if you're chases last 20 seconds?

[@ScottJund]

Its not like Plaything just guarantees your chase will be any shorter. It pretty much only does that on indoor maps. On any other map you can still have a fairly good heads up a killer is approaching if you are paying attention. Its a *chance* at a faster chase, whereas Pentimento is a *guarantee* of a slower game.

[@peterpotts7482]

@@ScottJund My point isn't that pentimento isn't still stronger, my point is that plaything/pentimento is still strong. No, you aren't gauranteed shorter chases or free hits, but statistically speaking with 3 to 4 people playthinged let's be serious now. Not getting pentimento sucks but it's not like I hate my chances against a playthinged team on any map except maybe auto haven.

[@beforegrim]

@@ScottJundi disagree when i play solo queue if i try to ignore my plaything and do a gen i will go down instantly when the killer comes to me probably 80% of the time. if i have a plaything totem i prioritize heals and unhooks as much as i can unless i absolutely have to do a gen because its just a death sentence

[@luciferriding2762]

Personally, with some killers it is so much easier with plaything active e.g. Wesker, his movements are so noisy up close and it gets rid of that awful terror radius that practically covers a small map and is impossible to judge direction. Freddy is almost the same with the wierd freddy noise still working when he is close even with plaything.

[@Racc-Kun_YT]

I feel like plaything just like pentimento is a perk that only effects solos. My SWF just ignores plaything and constantly calls out positions of ourselves and the killer. Its not much different than playing against a stealth killer so we just treat it as such and pump gens to get out of the match.

[@noisetank13]

Killer: *Equips a Pentimento build* Average Survivor: *is given a calculus tier level of expectations on how to handle said build, investigating and assessing a behavioral dossier on the Killer to determine if Devour Hope is involved, plays match with plaything active, still wipes because Devour Hope was in play anyways* I get Survivors have some BS perks and perk combos, but that doesn't make this right either. It's a combo that is not even remotely clear to the average player on how to counter, like with Plague and even Legion, but those you at least understand after a few matches of play.

[@666Avsky]

so you are telling me you can't understand/learn what penti does after a few games and counter it meanwhile you understand what legion/plague does after a few games and counter it... hmmmm doesn't sound right to me bud.

[@noisetank13]

@@666Avsky until theres an ingame hint on the screen every time the killer has it equipped, im assuming the greater population of the DbD community can't and won't, especially since there are definitive incentives to break Hex and Dull totems without immediate feedback that it's the right/wrong thing to do

[@666Avsky]

@@noisetank13 there is an indicatior when killer lits the broken totem again you see the penti in the right middle section of your screen (position may change depending on your monitor size) all totems have that indicator, for a brief second it shows what you are facing, ruin, third seal, etc.

[@noisetank13]

@@666Avsky Well it's been a while I do remember that, but can't remember if that goes away. Sometimes you are being chased all around or focused on skill checks. Make it consistent. And I still think making the overall default decision in regards to totems is 'don't do them' is not particularly engaging nor intuitive for new and average players.

[@aMissingPerson_]

One he was talking about the AVERAGE survivor not himself. 2 I don't agree, the AVERAGE soloq survivor doesn't know how to deal with legion or is too scared to play injured.

[@Pyrax-Tunneled-You]

Penti plaything is so fun to face, I wish there was a game mode where every single survivor match I que up in is a blight with penti plaything, so fun, so fun, I love it so much, so fun, so fun.

[@KtSuper]

You okay?

[@OhItsNoctu]

Actually lost their marbles... Poor soul.

[@bingushatesquad8133]

You should boil your hair

[@Doncroft1]

I think I hurt this man.

[@darkmans23t77]

He’s gone mad, poor lad

[@hextaped]

"The threat of this perk is so dangerous that you can not do ANY hex totems EVER. But it doesn't need a nerf." I Dunnoh about this take man. lol

[@springtrapnibba]

I mean it's called an ultimatum lmao either cleanse and get penti or don't cleanse and deal with whatever the killer brings.

[@Katana314]

Pentimento is one of those perks that makes me hate the words "Overpowered" / "Underpowered". Too many people think of perks entirely in terms of power. The devs have struggled to dismantle the "Just rush gens" mentality for a long time. It has made the game boring for survivors, and even with 90-second generators it feels rushed and stressful for killers. Rather than slow generators even more, the dev solution has been to invent new things for people to do to help the game. That's why so many killers now have interactables outside of chase to help yourself or the team. One such strategy, as you've seen with many recent perks, has been to encourage survivors to look for chests and totems. But the mere existence of Pentimento has had an effect, much like DS and OTR have effects even when no one equips them: Just like those perks tell killers not to tunnel off hook, Pentimento tells survivors to always completely ignore a game mechanic - one that ties in with suboptimal strategies and niche perks that we're supposed to be promoting. I don't have ideas about how Pentimento should change. I am okay with Haunted Ground having a brief surprise effect on the game, but otherwise, a negative cleansing perk really REALLY can't send a message of "Don't get off of generators to do something weird." That just makes the game worse for everyone. Honestly, it doesn't help that Plaything itself is sometimes questioned about being possibly too strong - especially since it targets the first hook victims more than the others.

[@cheesecakeee7963]

I personally just want Pentimento to not work on cleansed dull totems. It's already useless to cleanse a dull totem (unless its inner strength or hardened), so why punish everyone else in the process? No one else can see where the totem was cleansed besides the cleanser, so it really messes with SoloQ.

[@Matt-wg3yb]

So just like dead hard nerf it easy fix

[@SanaIsGay-KpopContent]

I'm a bit confused by most of this video to be honest because you're under the assumption that pentimento is always going to be worse than hex perks... which is definitely true in swfs but imo not in solo queue. Blood favour, crowd control, devour hope (+ undying), ruin and plaything if you're on an indoor map are hexs that you need to cleanse solo queue because the incoordination + gamble on your teammates chase skill is far too much. Pentimento's slowdown (or the time taken to hunt for totems) is never going to be worse than your teammates dropping like flies or a gen fully regressing because you have no idea which your teammate was on for example. I agree with the second part where you talk about remembering totem locations but you should potentially be contributing to the initial totem cleansing depending on what you're against.

[@gemain609]

Nah i actually fully disagree with you on this one. I genuinely cant believe you invoked old DH as an argument and then proceeded with essentially the same argument survivor mains leveled at killers who wanted to see it nerfed/change i.e. just always assume its in play. Hex perks, ESPECIALLY in solo que are powerful and often can not be abided to be left alone just given the derth in player knowledge of the game, its far better to see a hex and cleanse it then to assume penti is waiting in the wings given its far more likely that the given hex is already wreaking havoc on the team just due to a lack of game knowledge. Frankly the easiest nerf is just adjust the order of the effects you get for pentimento ignitions. Making the 30% gen speed nerf like the 3rd or 4th effect would serve the finction of making the perk an all or nothing gambit contingent on a dedicated hex build (or silly solo queuers cleansing dulls for points)

[@thepsyso]

The main reason to run penti is for the gen slow down, why on earth would anyone run it if it was the 3rd or 4th effect? Penti is one of the most easily countered perks in the game and is not deserving of any nerfs

[@BungerBugSnax]

Rare Scott L

[@AllOfARCH]

I think it's just that it's fundamental design is flawed. Putting aside anyone who cleanses dull totems for points and no other reason, Hexes are meant to have extremely powerful effects with the downside of going away when cleansed, that is their common weakness. Pentimento essentially punishes survivors for doing the counterplay that the devs designed for Hex perks, so if my team is getting screwed by Blood Favor, Ruin, and Devour Hope, I'm going to get rid of them just to find out I have -30% repair speed for however long it takes to cleanse them all a second time (not including the other speed nerfs if multiple pentis are up at once). After a while, none of my friends or I cleanse plaything because it's way worse of a penalty if penti comes into play and we have to cleanse more totems or we're screwed, essentially making plaything a permanent perk. It's just an unhealthy design.

[@AllOfARCH]

This is not even putting into account that there are plenty of survivor perks that give benefits to cleansing totems, most of which aren't even that good, which means in that case you're punishing a survivor with -30% repair speed when all they wanted was a bit of Overzealous value.

[@jack-ox9ym]

they just need to make it so either hex totems cant be rekindled or like 4 totems have to be broken to be able to rekindle

[@griffithdidnothingwrong7117]

When you rekindle plaything it doesn't turn back into plaything but just a pentimento hex, so it doesn't make plaything permanent by any sense of the word , not even more so if you just used plaything in a vacuum

[@AllOfARCH]

@@griffithdidnothingwrong7117 I never said it turns into plaything, I said that chances are that if the killer is running plaything then they're probably running penti, which means you get punished with a way worse effect (and you'll have to cleanse the totem again) than the original plaything. I said that plaything in my matches and many people's matches has basically become permanent because no one wants to take the risk that screws the team over, and in solo queue if a teammate doesn't understand they can screw over the whole team by cleansing the hexes

[@griffithdidnothingwrong7117]

@@AllOfARCH I get you my bad big dawg, I misunderstood what you said lmao I work overnights n I most definitely shouldn't be up rn 😂

[@VybeGG]

Pentimento reminds me of STBFL before the nerf, it's a strong perk yes but super easy to actually play around but nobody wants to pay attention to playing around it

[@lordofentity2786]

I would probably give Pentimento the NOED treatment. The pentimento totems have their auras revealed to survivors for 16 or 24 m.

[@MagicMonkey96]

Third seal if this gets added 📈

[@steeldragon9041]

That is overkill, again why punish a killer perk that IS A HEX PERK because some people refuse to learn about 1 perk. Don't forget any totem that has been cleansed and made into a pentimento totem, the person who broke that knows EXACTLY where it is.

[@redharing1699]

@@steeldragon9041 why punish 3 survivors because the 4th one ran inner strength

[@steeldragon9041]

@redharing1699 why punish the killer because a survivor refuses to read a perk? Or be selfish about thier perk? The perk ALREADY does literally NOTHING if the survivors cleanse 0 totems. It is a KILLER PERK that can not be activated without the survivors cleansing totems

[@redharing1699]

@@steeldragon9041 and again, why punish 3 survivors because 1 makes that mistake. There are plenty of other perks, slow down especially, that are much healthier in design. If you are running Penti by itself, then that is a you problem, but you are probably running it with other perks that make them want to cleanse. if they are not cleansing, you will be having great strong perks instead.

[@DriakTMG]

I would say that yes, it IS up to the survivors to not cleanse totems for the effect to happen, but it is overall Unhealthy for the game imo to so severely punish any entire team for 1 players actions, who in all honesty, didn't even doing anything wrong. The whole point, to me at least, of a Hex Power is that "Hey, here is a really strong ability, but it can be taken away if you find where it's hidden.", but Pentimento is an outlier that takes everything players know about Hex totems and says "Yeah, so just don't do them ever or else you could deal with this lol", meaning it gets rid of the only weakness that these extremely strong perks have and also gives mixed signals to any players, even moreso new ones. I do like the idea of Hex's that punish players for cleansing them like Haunted Grounds, but that effect is Immediate and it extremely clear to the entire team and the person cleansing what is going on, and it only last 60 seconds, at most. Pentimento can be activated on any cleansed totem at any time meaning it isn't super clear what the criteria for being set off is for new players. Instead, randomly, they just have 30% slower gen speed, through no real fault of their own because the game ENCOURAGES people to cleanse lit totems when you learn about them. The good thing about Devour Hope and other Hex perks is that usually there is a bit more of an immediately noticeable effect that hints at you what is going on and that it's totem hunting time if you want to get rid of this negative effect. Also, if you aren't paying attention to the Totem Debuffs icon on the right side of the screen after Pentimento is lit and you next touch a gen, you could literally just miss the notification for it's existence and be left figuring out why things feel so slow (another issue entirely, but one that a lot of people have happen to them in more stressful games). There are also a decent number of challenges to cleanse any totems, which even means dulls, which just makes it even worse because now you have to go into a game to cleanse totems for a challenge, but you you even cleanse ONE, you risk your entire team's ability to play the game. I would say if the devs don't want to nerf the power, maybe just have Pentimento (and Devour Hope cause NoEd has it too) have like an 8-12m range where it highlights these totems (noed style) so its just an obvious HINTHINTNUDGENUDGE for solos to prioritize it, or a sound queue for survivors (like boons) so that killers can't just walk up and silently relight it, sometimes almost literally mid-chase, and have to actually think before relighting it and gaining such a huge buff. I think that one of these changes could allow for it to still be really good cause it sends the survivors on a Totem Hunt still, meaning you get the game slowdown you want, but it doesn't get rid of their strengths if they decide to just ignore it. Honestly though, just like how Distortion is being nerfed because it wasn't healthy for the game, a 30% slowdown is too much and I honestly believe it should be halved, or at most 20%, because it's current state really is just downright miserable and unfun to deal with.

[@quattrokerbecs]

Pentimento: 1 rekindled totem provides a 30% repair penalty and is easy to replace + maintain. Thanatophobia: applies a max 20% repair penalty when all survivors are injured, and ONLY if all 4 are still present.

[@CelsiusNK]

I'm sorry but this just seems super out of touch with current DBD. I get the point you are making but it is absolutely not a better option to allow chases to end sooner just to allow gens to progress at normal speed. It already takes 1/100 games to get a teammate that can even run a killer for longer then 10 seconds without Play Thing ain't no way you expect people to win matches by allowing themselves to be hit with Play Thing. TLDR: Penti is way to good because the average skill level is way to low to properly counter it and expecting even half the playerbase to change how they play for a single perk is kinda ridiculous. I didn't expect it for Dead Hard and I wouldn't expect it for Penti.

[@Haaaaaaaaarper]

but the thing is penti is still just another hex perk basicially so its not like once penti is up it stays up for the entire game you can still cleanse it afterwards just like any other hex perk no? So woudnt that make it balenced again

[@reivoidwalker]

@@Haaaaaaaaarperthe amount of time Penti has the potential to waste is fair for coordinated SWFs maybe, but for solo queue it’s just straight up unfair. It’s not balanced at all because of the difference between solo queue and SWF

[@dwaynecooper5502]

Penti is literally the epitome of a skill issue on whoevers totem was rebuilt and that person not going to recleanse it full stop. It would be one thing if the killer could hex any random totem and gain the effect but its literally a survivor cleansed totem. Its crazy that this discussion is even being had but also not that surprising

[@S-t-a-r-s-h-o-t]

I really don't think the general playstyle is cultured to seeing this as a team game beyond the very core mechanics of altruism and repair. I can't help but think back to face camping players being at all successful. Rarely was a solo queue player thinking: >If I just stay on hook for the full duration _we_ win. More realistically: >Welp _my_ game is over. Go next. Give up and turn it from a free survivor "team win" into a free killer win. Except of course in this case you actually *can* do something to prevent it and it's not at the mercy of whether or not a player has decided to let you play that match. With that in mind, doubtful that too many players believe in "shared accountability" and the idea of it being a part of survivor gameplay to hope your team doesn't fuck you over. People dragging their feet about learning to play around perks. Everyone and their mothers managed to play around Deadhard/Decisive Strike/Unbreakable during the period when you had to anticipate any player could _(and likely would)_ be using them. No one in the match could be running those and they'd *still* have people playing around them. Players get a little icon on their team bar that tells them when they've got a totem cleanser. Maybe a perk paired with collective inability/unwillingness is healthy for perk variety. Maybe it'd be beneficial to use that handy pregame lobby chat to relay: >Hey, one of us should use an anti-totem perk or map to play around Pentimento since it's more prevalent recently. Or maybe you just gotta -flame a bitch- gently educate a fellow player in post game for needlessly cleansing totems until it catches on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@greal17]

Perfectly said...

[@kilikx1x]

Pentimento is a ramping perk that gets stronger the more relit totems you have active at one time, but almost no one ever actively plays around that fact because the first stage of Pentimento is so powerful that its not really worth considering the other stages of it. I'd love to see Pentimento's power shifted so that you actually need to play around relighting it to get the same/stronger effect. Keeping in mind that Pentimento can currently slow down not only Gen speeds but also Healing, Recovering *and* Gate speeds by 30% each! Something like: 1 totem = Gen, Healing, Recovery, and Gate speeds reduced by 10% 2 totems = Gen, Healing, Recovery, and Gate speeds reduced by 15% (+5%) 3 totems = Gen, Healing, Recovery, and Gate speeds reduced by 20% (+5%) 4 totems = Gen, Healing, Recovery, and Gate speeds reduced by 30% (+10%) 5 totems = All totems are permanently blocked (this is unchanged from the current effect) This would still allow Pentimento to pair very well with Plaything but would alternatively pair pretty well with something like Thrill of the Hunt (which is pretty rarely used) since it would allow you to more easily protect, and as a result ramp, your totems power. *this is just some napkin math I thought of on the spot so the numbers might be unbalanced, and it might be better to start off with higher/lower numbers and ramp at a different pace*

[@spooky8491]

I like this idea. Or at the very least, relegate the current Gen slowdown to a higher tier than the first. Probably tier 2.

[@brewingtea1]

Who's supposed to tell me whether the killer immediately leaves after hooking?? AQUAMAN????????

[@lov5576]

Just check hud if killer starts chasing some one else, always be mindful of your teamates general position in the map aswell as the killers ,just stop being a bot at the game and get good.

[@internetceleste]

truuuuu, don't ever break the plaything totems so i can get constant sneak hits in

[@MWalkah]

Giving sneak hits >>> everyone having 30% gen slowdown.

[@frogg5368]

@@MWalkah The biggest slowdown is having a survivor on hook

[@imintolifeotp3041]

The biggest issue I see with this argument is that the existence of a single perk basically removes the drawback that is supposed to be inherent with Hex perks. Dead Hard was listed as being problematic because every killer in the game had to know that you couldn't lunge at injured survivors which was terrible design because it removed a core component of the game. Now we have Pentimento in a similar position where it existing breaks the core aspect of. "Hex perks have the significant risk/drawback of being finite as a counterpoint to their power." But with 4x the knowledge burden because 4 survivors have to know instead of 1 killer learning to not lunge. It is just poor design, and should be addressed from that aspect and not the power level.

[@obscureOctopus1993]

Whenever I break a hex, I memorize the location. If I see the penti debuff pop up, I just run back and cleanse it again. I think the best way to go is "you break it, you break it again". The survivor that cleansed the original totem should be the one responsible for breaking the penti totem.

[@notTroddn]

But penti plaything is too strong for just playing. Penti being just a space bar press for 20% is insane. Don't cleanse plaything killer gets free stealth the entire game.

[@ScottJund]

i disagree. plaything can be pretty nasty on indoor maps but its never, ever worth the time spent breaking all of them and then the subsequent pentimentos on top of that. plaything is super overrated IMO

[@pookie6659]

​@@ScottJund since maps are getting smaller nowadays, you have to play like you're immersed if you wanna anticipate killers coming to you, even outdoor maps, when you have plaything. the thing is, no one wants to play slow and take their time cleansing. people rather die than having one match taking 30 mins

[@j0hnicide]

​@@pookie6659you would rather die and lose than stick to safe areas and outplay the killer. you deserve to lose.

[@adamuria]

@@ScottJundthis is true in most cases besides apex muffler billy

[@Doncroft1]

It's 30%.

[@cameronyte]

I think Scott has a great point that the correct counterplay to Pentimento is to ignore totems completely. That said, I guess my issue with that is from a fun standpoint, should we really be allowing be allowing one perk to discourage interacting with an entire mechanic of the game? That idea doesn’t sit completely right with me is all

[@DerrickMayFan]

You SHOULD break totems, they just need to go back and break Pentimento again. Asking solo queue players to play through devour, ruin and plaything is insane. Not gonna happen

[@ScottJund]

i specifically said you should not play through Devour? Ruin is pretty good but not nearly gamebreaking enough to risk throwing for Pentimento for.

[@DerrickMayFan]

@@ScottJund Ruin is absolutely game breaking in solo queue. So is Plaything, survivors play like drunk cockroaches without a terror radius

[@ScottJund]

@@DerrickMayFan wtf version of the game am i playing? Ruin was so heavily nerfed from how it used to be

[@misery1500]

Ruin is a fucking joke these days. Almost every match I use it in or go against it the thing gets ignored

[@DerrickMayFan]

@@ScottJund like I said SOLO QUEUE. If it's not cleansed gens don't get done. Most randoms are complete noobs even in supposed "high mmr". Add other gen regression perks and it's over

[@jacobcoates7987]

if everyone keeps in mind where the totems they cleanse are the perk would provide minimal slowdown.

[@Zer033_]

Penti in itself isn’t even strong. If solo q players would just learn to go back to any totem they cleansed if the killer has penti then penti wouldn’t be a problem but 90% solo q hate doing that so it ends up being super strong

[@user-yq4wo5dc1j]

But killers aren't running penti by itself self, let be real. I would argue that penti functions like undying where it almost needs to be ran with other hexes. Also, just remembering the location of where they cleansed makes a lot of assumptions in that, that is THE cleansed totem/ hex that got penti-ed (it could be from another cleansed totem/ hex), or that the surv is able to re cleanse without the chance of being sidetracked with literally anything else that could occur in the trial (being hooked, chased, healing/ getting healed, or literally dying).

[@humbletotodile]

Chill man survivor players like their hand held constantly. It's too hard to notice the giant explosion and use common sense.

[@TheEldenCheese]

DBD will never be the amazing game it has the potential to be, if we keep having people with takes like this. As much as i think BHVR sucks at their jobs, they have to try so hard to find the compromise between actual game balance and listening to dumbass takes like this to keep the community happy. How much of the community thinks old dead hard was fine? How many of those are complete and utter idiots? See the point? game balance should revolve solely around making sure everyone has fun, and every single match gives all players an equal opportunity to turn the game in their favor. Not necessarily equal chance to win, but there should never ever be any situation for either side to just give up cuz theres nothing they can do. And as much as some people wanna say the game is survivor sided(and i get why), the game is inherently killer sided in terms of balance in this manner. The killer can keep trying to get hooks all the way until every single survivor escapes, even if they havent won a chase the entire match. The survivors consistently have situations both in endgame and in normal play, where there is objectively nothing they could do no matter how good they are at the game and have to choose to eithe waste both theirs and the killers time, or just give up. Even comp players you see so many games, in tournaments even, where the surv has to just literally throw their life away, because they cant even try to hide and get hatch when the killer slugs for the 4k on a bad map or if killer has info perks. And even if you do try to juice them, even if your the best player in the universe, the killer has 4 minutes of bleedout timer on the other surv to just bloodlust 3 you two times and theres not a dam thing you could do. Another example, endgame with one man standing, or hatch gets closed, there are soooo many killers and sooo many maps where the survivor objectively cannot ever open the gate without being interrupted, even if they do the Stop at A tech lol. You see so many times where the surv will just walk over to the killer and give up to save time. Never once does a killer have to make that choice. Even as they push people out of the gate, they can hope the survs get too cocky, mess up, and let them pick up before they crawl out. It happens so often we dubbed it a "just leave moment". You never have a "just open the gate for the survs moment" for killers. Killers should win slightly more often than survs technically yes.. but killers should not ever be able to put survs in a position where there is objectively nothing they can do to even get one man out. Which penti makes so many of those situations, especially with plaything. (i personally never cleanse playthings) like, not that penti even often gets to high enough stacks, but why is there even a gate slowdown on it? Why is that there? And it would stack with remember me, and NWO, and you objectively could not ever possibly open a gate even if the killer went afk i bet(even with Sole Survivor and Wakeup). Thus god fucking awful game design.

[@davidatlas123]

People will claim Pentimento being on every match and uncounterable and never bring a map/any totem perk That aside tho its funny now that i think about it: -Plague: If a random teammate cleanses, the entire team can suffer and snowball into a defeat, comunity opinion: "well then the survivor shouldnt cleanse, Plague is fine, people need to learn her counter" -Pentimento: If a random teammate cleanses a totem, the entire team can suffer and snowball into a defeat, comunity opinion: "Unhealthy game design, it shouldnt be that strong if i can get punished by a teammate mistake" I do agree that solo suffers more vs it but like, i dont think just flat nerfing it is the solution, at best i could see a 25% slowdown instead, or maybe making the other effects better, but putting gen slowdown to second totem, but the perk is, while annoying, not as unbalanced as people make, its just the mentallity of "never bring totem perks because no one brings hexes", and "never bring maps, theyre useless" alongside "break every totem you see asap, if it glows it goes" Also also how bout this for a counter, remove the boon penalty for using a boon on totems, bam, now you can boon a hex and it will remove the hex+deny pentimento but you gotta us a boon

[@ghostflame9211]

i never understood why cleansing vs plague auto assumes instant death. she still has to go out of her way to get her power from whatever pool was used, and then at least the survivor isnt one shot, making loud noises, and bleeding everywhere. yes shes obviously much more powerful once she gets rolling, but its still harder to land 2 hits than 1, esp in a limited amount of time.

[@NameIsDoc]

Oh no, they’ve already stated they’re going to nerve plague into the goddamn ground because survivors can’t adapt so unfortunately your example is a bit dated

[@user-yq4wo5dc1j]

@@ghostflame9211 I agree. I also think this argument of you should cleanse is stupid because it just indicates how flawed the gameplay is between plague and survivors; her being able to get her ability relies SOLEY on the survs cleansing (excluding the one free fountain she gets, which ironically was added in a patch because people weren't cleansing). Also, if I wanted to be injured all game, I would bring No Mither. Recommending staying injured because a killer's ability is too powerful is so backwards that people are blatantly ignoring LOL.

[@irregularassassin6380]

@@user-yq4wo5dc1j Except staying injured is viable counterplay to Legion, and no one is ever going to say that current Legion is overpowered. Many would say they aren't even powerful at all.

[@user-yq4wo5dc1j]

@@irregularassassin6380 Legion and Plague are different tho, people stay injured against plague because they say her power is too powerful, they say stay injured with legion because they can easily hit everyone. That’s what makes the aspect of staying injured backwards if it’s due to the killer being too powerful.

[@SpaceW-]

I've gone pretty back and forth on it but I feel like I 'win' more games where killers have hex + penti when I break them compared to when I dont. But I do absolutely snap my head towards any totem breaks and immediately stop what I'm doing to run straight for it. When I cleanse hexes I also try to bait the penti. If I break a totem and know the killer has penti, I will camp the totem until they come and activate it and immediately re-cleanse. Killers never immediately puppyguard the penti totems so its always the best time to cleanse it

[@ardaoguzhan8181]

If i get hit by plaything i automatically think that the killer has pentimento so i never cleanse. I wish i could say the same for my teammates they just run around doing plaything and giving the killer potentially pentimento stacks. If anyone reads this comment please dont cleanse if you're hit by plaything it's going to do more harm than good in the long run

[@MagicMonkey96]

This is why I run devour along with my plaything penti. They see devour and start panic cleansing but oops you only cleansed the playthings and pentis ❤️

[@a105-s9d]

see this is the part that gets me, as a solo que player i have always made a mental note of where any totems i cleansed are just incase this perk comes into play. so i think the people complaining about this perk either get shitty teammates or have a skill issue but then again you actually have to see this perk in order to play against it which isn't all the common

[@vDizzy7997]

Pentimento should have the same effect as NOED. When the killer lights a totem it should give survivors the expanding aura over time.

[@Thisdddoge]

it needs the same aura of noed, but sequentially in the order the totems were light up, to the point where anyone can see the aura of the totem that was first light up. maybe that could fix the solo q problem?

[@GG-pj6tw]

Curious to know how to counter this build without cleansing the totems as I've seen it multiple times and killers always get atleast a 3K with this. Undying, Pentimento, Devour Hope, Plaything If Devour Hope and Undying aren't cleansed before Plaything totems are up then it's always a GG.

[@YukkuriAteMyBaby]

Booning a totem will clense it without destroying it.

[@theMaculaDensa]

If penti is scarier than every hex perk sans Devour, then it simply needs to be nerfed. The whole point of hexes is that they're supposed to be balanced with the understanding that the killer probably won't have them for the whole match. If the new meta solution is to leave every hex up all game, then that throws everything else off. The medicine shouldn't be worse than the disease, so to speak

[@davidburke4101]

Pentimento by itself isn't the problem. It's plaything + Pentimento. Either spend a huge amount of time cleansing, have slow progress or get jumpscared by killers with actual powers. It is a guaranteed lose lose scenario, and can only really be beaten if you either have a map with good visibility, or stay off gens to cleanse. If your teammates don't do that, it's a PITA and almost unwinnable. I wouldn't nerf pentimento, but I would nerf plaything by making the oblivious go away after 180 seconds. If you choose not to cleanse, you'll EVENTUALLY not be forced to just give the killer pentimento for free. But if you try to hide it out, the killer still gets value.

[@banan6216]

It's just dumb The fact that the perk single handedly forces players to never break lit up totems ever, even if the killer isn't running it, out of fear of it being in play is dumb. In that case behavoiur might aswell make lit up totems unbreakable. The perks existance invalidates the core drawback with hex totems, (that they are breakable if you manage to locate them), and it gives an insane slowdown effect if anyone on your team is unaware just how strong it is, which most people are. That seems like poor game design to me

[@ScottJund]

If you feel that strongly nothing is stopping you from breaking a totem and remembering where it is. Take it even further if you feel that strongly and bring a Boon to cleanse the hex. There are still options and I don't want them to make it another useless hex perk

[@xdgamer0189]

but this exact issue can also be put on survivors point with boons? but those dont break after "cleaning" them

[@banan6216]

@@ScottJund yeah but atleast tweak it somewhat. If its presence makes it so the optimal play is to never cleanse totems, (even if its not in play out of fear of it being in play), then surely its a problem. Now that might be changing the repair speed debuff slightly or giving aura reading of the totem when its rekindle'd. Anywho, it is a problem as it stands currently.

[@humbletotodile]

​@banan6216 it's not a problem broski. I'm a survivor player and like a challenge, I don't want my hand held. Penti is fine. Break a totem, and remember where it is. EZ.

[@Yoishking101]

I’m surprised counterforce and overzealous aren’t used more. I feel like a lot of this problem of hex’s wouldn’t be a thing if totem perks seemed more powerful.

[@sen6516]

Bubba approves this video :)

[@NewSirenSong]

The issue is that it punishes a side objective, incetivizing complete gen focus. I like to do side objectives, they provide a break to the monotony of doing gens without putting the pressure of a chase on me. It makes it fun to be able to do a side objective in the alreasy starved survivor bp economy

[@Doncroft1]

Pentimento is very strong, BUT it's carrying hex builds on its back right now! Seriously, it has singlehandedly made hex builds appealing again. Stuff like Plaything, Blood Favor, Devour Hope, and freaking Ruin is usable again thanks to Penti.

[@YourPetSnake]

i will never cleanse noed in fear of pentimento, thank you scott o7

[@ghalleonorez]

Counter argument: do you think you can find the hex again rather easily? Cleanse it. If not, don’t cleanse

[@elfkaze]

The problem is they keep buffing and making Hex perks you can't just ignore and people just shrug and go "it's suppose to be overly strong because it can be destroyed!". It's a lose, lose situation for survivor. You either give the killer up to 3 really strong perks permanently or deal with Pentimento. There is no win unless your in a SWF that can play around some of the other Hex perks.

[@MadArtillery]

If people just remember where they broke something it's a lot less of an issue.

[@zing159]

You're right, Penti is EXACTLY like dead hard, and as such I expect is to be nerfed into the ground and have a laundry list of setup requirements to get it to activate. There should also be some lag based RNG that means it doesn't activate 50% of the time.

[@OmniJohnny]

This shit has been around for awhile and now it’s a problem? Absolutely a skill issue.

[@domynicpagnotti3985]

Same w distortion

[@FancyDakota]

Just because something has been around for a while does invalidate discussion around it. That is such a weak argument.

[@mrkatamari]

Totally, the whole argument against Pentimento resumes in bad players not knowing what to do... Oh, bad players are bad at the game, what a surprise.

[@Emmetlovesredvelvet13]

My only real response to this is it's spot on. either stop breaking totems or be aware of totem placement that's all you can do.

[@gabrielelizondogetz870]

the counter play to pentimento is that you ALREADY FOUND THE TOTEM and YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO

[@Mirrors957]

I think a good in between would you see the totems aura when near it like with noed. That way it's a buff for soloq but not swf bc with comms you could just call out where you cleansed it doing essentially the same thing. If they wanted to make it fun for killers too make it so the aura range decreases with the more tokens you have and its just gone at 5. Could have it be like 8 meters at one stack and decrease by 2 with every token you get.

[@hazzabazza2282]

The problem is people pair it with plaything which is just infinite stacks

[@koopa6_412]

Don’t cleanse plaything he says it in the video

[@Lecruidant]

@@koopa6_412 Right, so, don't have any indicator to if they are coming or not. Instead, be fearful of a perk because it just wins matches

[@mangchol9487]

Or boon it. Which is worse now, since you only get 1 score event (1500 for bless) compared to 2 before (1500 bless+1000 hex break)

[@ScottJund]

@@Lecruidant i mean yeah? you should be fearful of a perk because it wins matches. almost no perk in the game can single handedly win you the match

[@koopa6_412]

@@Lecruidant or just be better at the game?😭 you acting like plaything is worse than pentimento

[@TheCHRISCaPWN]

I don't see penti that often, but I see plaything a few times a day. Is Penti use on the rise? Am I just the lucky one?

[@NameIsDoc]

It’s equipped less than 3% according to nightlight. You are more likely to run into oppression then you are pentimento

[@unimagin2ble]

penti isn't used that much in my experience either, it isn't that fun to run lol

[@NameIsDoc]

@@TheCHRISCaPWN according to nightlight, the perk is equipped less than 3%. It has been getting more popular recently, but so has all other hex perks because of the dominance perk.

[@mckookie2967]

Its probably the best combo in the game for killer when paired with pain and pop lol

[@plague6174]

This whole video is satire lol, bro is just trying to gaslight survivors to stop cleansing hexes so that he can start having more fun with the real hexes he's bringing. Penti is not often brought with other hex perks. However, Undying is, because it gives a 2nd life to any other hex perk such as Blood Favor or Ruin or even Lullaby, because its way stronger to give those perks a Second Wind, rather than lose them from the first cleanse and will have to then replace it by dropping whatever it is you're doing, head to the perk, and spark it back up for a 30% gen sloppy. With Any Hex + Undying, it buys the Killer more time to get value from the big hex perk they brought by getting saved from Undying, and the Killer doesn't have to stop doing anything when they do the first cleanse. Imagine if you're running Blood Favor, and they cleanse the totem RIGHT before you get a hit on a survivor thats miliseconds from stunning your hit on a pallet. The fate of that game is already decided, by like 70% in Survivors' favor. But if Undying saves that Blood Favor, that right there decides the fate of the game in your favor as Killer.

[@MadNada]

I literally NEVER had an issue with pentimento because I permanently run counterforce, I'm a totem junkie 🤷‍♀

[@Ruinya]

Survivors keep cleansing the totems, but won't re-cleanse them because they quite literally don't know what penti is. Hell, every match pretty much has pain res and you still see survivors on the most progressed generator holding on until it blows up in their face and they scream. Penti is a solo queue destroyer, it's difficult to be the parent of the team when everyone is cleansing their totems and nobody is going back to re-cleanse it. most matches I may have ONE single decent teammate who I can somewhat rely on to unhook or run the killer for longer than 20 seconds.

[@SimonSlasher]

my favorite build that I run right now is ( Trail of Torment, Hex: Retribution, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Pentimento ) on Chucky (my main) its really great because its such a win win build + its a fun stealth build. The survivors either have to deal with full stealth chucky which is kinda op as he is so short its almost impossible to spot him compared to other stealth killers. Or survivors choose to cleanse all the hexes, which give me penti + aura reading. The best part is if the survivors choose to cleanse all playthings and penti totems in total, not only will it waste soooo much of their time they could've spent on gens it also gives you over 2 full minutes of aura reading. (you could swap out trail for lethal) which would only increase that even more! I know its a very evil build but god is it fun to see how survivors choose to play around the build, that and I don't have to worry about trying to get to gens to regress them before they pop, hhh... the curse of having such little legs.

[@SpookySkeletonGang]

One of the few times I think I flat out disagree with you Scott. it's a huge game design issue if there's an entire mechanic that you need one side to just ignore, because of ANOTHER mechanic that they added that could be in play that will make things way harder. Hexes are there to be cleansed, that's the whole reason why they're balanced. If there's something in play that makes cleansing them not worth it then that thing needs to be looked at, especially in a game with no communication between players. What, I'm supposed to just be okay with the fact that my teammates will cleanse a hex, something they're meant to do, but then they end up throwing the game because of it? One of your points here is that we should balance around the average player. The average player doesn't, and won't ever know to just never cleanse any totems to avoid pentimento. The average player doesn't watch dbd youtube or go on reddit, nothing, they'd have no way of learning that.

[@alcatratz2702]

if penti is so powerful that cleansing totems is actively harmful now, shouldnt that warrant a nerf by itself? the mechanic of a hex is that you get a powerful but fragile effect that can be taken away by survivors. if the act of taking said power away becomes so harmful to your team that it shouldnt be done, hex perks essentially lose their baggage and become normal perks instead... im not arguing penti´s strength, but whether this perk is healthy for the game and if it is in support of already existing game structures, which i dont think it is.

[@foomongus2935]

i heavily disagree, hexes are meant to be high risk high reward for killer, but pentimento just makes it a reward no matter what. plaything + pent is a perfect example, either all survivors are oblivious, or suffer a 30% reduced repair speed. either situation is awful for survivor. IMO pent needs a nerf or rework (and plaything), but hexes in general need a buff

[@BigBruceT]

I used to run Plaything and Pentimento on Pinhead consistently. With the box and those together, I just got too much hate from survivors after games. I don’t run it anymore, I feel bad cause it honestly feels like a game winner every time I load in with it. I feel like nurse with quad slowdowns lol, shits really powerful but yeah I wouldn’t say OP

[@AirLight1646]

Hexes in general are such strange designs. I would like to see a potential rework of them that addresses frustrations on both sides (I'm looking at you, totem being broken right as the game starts) while still keeping them as risk and reward perks. I don't think BHVR would be up to the task though.

[@ianphillips9517]

Counter argument: If you feel the need to make a whole video about pentimento because a single instance of it being active makes the match awful to play, then the perk should still be good even if it gets a slight nerf from 30% to 25% slowdown.

[@wilson713]

I mean...requiring telepathy amongst 4 randoms in a mode that doesn't include communication is exactly why a perk should be adjusted. Where are players going to pick up general macro strategies if they don't engage with DbD social media? The solution can't be "Blue Collar Bob on Xbox needs to randomly realize we don't cleanse Plaything as a community"

[@ScottJund]

Wtf where is telepathy required you need baby levels of object permanence

[@Lifeweaverhere]

I streamed 6 hours today, saw pentimento alot, but I can't always tell when a killer has it because they normally use hex plaything, so I know not to cleanse. I'd rather have no terror radius that penti up.

[@contractslivid5118]

Maybe give it the plaything treatment? Visible to all survivors within a 16 meter range. SWF already know where the totem is, so evening the playing field should help Solo Q.

[@Kaius.]

On one hand I get what you're saying, I personally have never had an issue with Pentimento like, ever, but if the proposed counter to Pentimento is to simply ignore an entire mechanic (sometimes to the detriment of the Survivors) is that not also a strong argument that the perk is far too impactful?

[@DBDRedBeard]

The fact that we are in a position now that you just have to assume everyone running hexes is also running pentimento should say all that needs to be said about the perk (take this perk to the ranch, please). Gen slow-down should absolutely be moved to the 2nd totem token so you have at least somewhat of a chance to react to permanent gen slowdown, if you can't counter the perk before knowing its in play, or having another perk to counter it, I think there is a genuine problem.

[@vontron_237_4]

Old DBD: just cleanse totems New DBD: just don't cleanse totems

[@user-lz9rh8nc1r]

All you say is useless. In solo queue, if it glows, it goes. That will never change.

[@madeinrita7591]

Overzealous is pretty nice, 20% for a hex totem, with deja vu or resilence you can counter petimento and get a nice extra 10% if you break it

[@thepsychoticfox5494]

Ok so in theory pentimento is a terrible perk because if you are on coms it’s really easy to get rid of it even when the have play thing both perks are terrible when on coms soo i actually can’t believe it’s a problem at all like this is a game you need communication so where’s game chat? Or fix mmr because my teammates shouldn’t be completely stupid that they don’t know how to play against pentimento when I have 3k hours

[@someguy86]

It's not like you can't recleanse the penti totem. Sure it is strong but i'd say its more of a case-by-case basis on whether its worth risking penti or not. Eg, Ruin is still a strong perk on certain killers, eg singularity, so I'd always cleanse ruin vs singu. Plaything rarely is worth cleansing but on indoor maps it can potentially be worth cleansing. Especially if inner healing is used.

[@JP_knees]

Hex: Plaything is what I see Penti paired with the most, by far. We can beg and plead all we want, but the vast majority of casual players would rather cleanse their plaything so they have a chance to react. Ya gotta stop putting the emphasis on impact and keep in mind just how fucking annoying some perks are in concept. Oh, youve cleansed a totem? They have pentimento, go do the same totem in the same spot again or else! Oh you wanted to work on gens at the beginning of the game but they took corrupt intervention? Go fuck yourself, enjoy traversing half the map just to do the most boring thing survivors have to do, etc. This isnt about the strengths of perks. The reality is that most people who take penti+plaything are the same type of people who usually sweat and dont give a fuck about the fun of others; funsucking perks will completely demotivate a casual fun-seeking player from bothering 🤷🏻

[@TurbulentEitri]

Definitely a matter of players not understanding. Just look at how many times Sadako got reworked and people still don't grab tapes enough to deny her stacks and mobility. What makes Pentimento so strong, besides the numbers, is that the gen slowdown is the very first benefit. If they were to ever nerf it, it'd be bumping it up to the second or third totem level to have it like an impending threat before the final totem seals the deal and blocks them all off.

[@tanez778]

That's how it was before and it was trash tier.

[@taragnor]

@@tanez778 Swapping the heal nerf and gen repair could work okay. The 3 and 4 benefits are terrible though.

[@lupin2589]

If you're playing against even remotely decent survivors you're never getting more than 1 stack of Pentimento up for any serious amount of time. That shit gets broken asap, so making gen repair speed the second tier would make it pretty garbage

[@TurbulentEitri]

@@taragnor That's about what I was thinking.

[@TurbulentEitri]

@@lupin2589 Using Dominance with Pentimento helps a fair bit from what I've heard. Hex totems in general could use a rework of sort because they're way too prone to being cleansed at the beginning of a match right now. Not to mention really, really bad totem placements being out in the open.

[@toxicafsam7622]

The absolute worst solo Q Pentimento user is Plague. Plaything + Pentimento + Black incense plague has to be the most painful experience in DBD since Omega Blink nurse. Solo Q survivors once they become broken + oblivious either 1.) immediately panic and cleanse leading to infinite corrupt purge. 2.) Refuse to cleanse (what most people do bc it’s “meta) but break the totem, leading to infinite 50% Gen slow down due to Pentimento + Thana Or 3.) Refuse to cleanse and don’t break the totem, but being 1 shot and obvious leading to everyone going to instantly bc plague has some of the quietest foot steps in the game.

[@AlsoMeowskivich]

oh, forgot to add: boons completely counter penti

[@MOON-vb6ly]

Keeping how it is is catering to hardcore players. Let’s not do that ad accept minor changes like what Noed did. A hex like that should have some kind of counter play instead of just not doing hexes. Hexes are meant to be broken.

[@justadogo4609]

You forgot the boon counter in my 4 stack I run a boon build to boon hex totems with overzealous get 20% speed on gens and it counters pentimento

[@strangefathers5710]

Pentimento would be fine if it revealed its aura the way Plaything and NOED do.

[@MagicNash89]

Have we forgotten that you do not known WHICH hex perk you are taking away when cleansing a hex totem? It can be Devour Hope, or it could be someone else's plaything. If that Devour hope is somewhere nicely hidden you might be screwed.

[@MagicMonkey96]

This is why I love the build so much. I like to throw in haunted grounds too

[@xara8636]

Understood, bring boons to cover hexes.

[@snowball816]

Another day of Scott mentioning object permanence out of nowhere

[@Untiligetfree]

Except undying is always run with devour hope . So by the time you know devour is up your usually screwed . I think there should be atleast a 5 second time to set up your pentimento totem . It takes hardly anytime to set up a hex totem and 14 seconds to cleanse that totem . Time is just against you . Btw scott your talking about solo q keeping track of totems like that will ever be a thing . When people cant even deal with pinheads puzzle box . Btw pentimento builds are just not fun to go against , 20 + min dbd matches are not fun .

[@llunull43]

I would like to see a tiny bit of a time investment for the killer, or not show the killer which totem broke for them to immediately restore that 30%. Maybe some kind of mini game for the killer to do but that would be silly. Maybe just a longer, tedious animation. Maybe a short radius (talking like 4-8 meters) that reveals the totems aura? I don't mind the perk as a survivor but I wish for something so powerful it could be a higher risk. I partly disagree with myself though because I know that the survivors have to give the killers the perk essentially. I guess it's just the fact that you don't know they have the perk until it's too late a majority of the time? I'm not sure why I feel so adamant it needs a tiny nerf.

[@leomeraEU]

I'm sorry I have hearing issues and plaything messes with my ability to play the game. The heartbeat indicator is useless against plaything. Cleansing it plaything everytime, but if there is penti, I always go back and cleanse that too.

[@Sweetness_01]

Me playing at high MMR: hexes get broken in the first couple of minutes, and on my way to activate pentimento, 2 gens get done, I find one survivor and when I end the chase my pentimento is already broken. But yeah "pEnTiMeNtO OP 🤓"

[@mcahtme2977]

According to the comment section…. Survivors don’t want to learn perks and they want things given to them like always. What’s the surprise of there being a breakdown on what killer hex perk being used in the middle of the game? By that logic you might as well see the killers perks before game. And please don’t use new players as an excuse. We were all new players at one time, stop having everything handed to you and actually learn.

[@qwikscopez6619]

I think you're being unfair there. Why not assume some of the people are arguing in good faith because I can assure U they are

[@mcahtme2977]

@@qwikscopez6619 and I’m arguing in good faith too. Everyone starts out new, it’s a little disingenuous to say it’s for the new players when we all know the majority of survivors will benefit from it. Another disadvantage to the killers. Let the new players do everything the old players had to do which is research is all I’m saying.

[@TheRealChedder]

Be like me. Run hyper focus every game and sit on gens🤓. This whole game is just a skill check sim for me😂

[@Sahedzior]

Pentimento is only good vs bad survivors, any competent survivor will just cleanse it right away when they already know where is the broken totem which they have cleansed. The perk literally punishes only bad survivors that don't know how the perk works. If it glows it goes :^)

[@Dyeoxy]

People really need to learn to memorize that thunder sound when a totem breaks You're never gonna teach xbox player 200 hour jimmy not to break the ruin totem, part because dbd encourages you to break them, by at the very to least being shiny and having an interact next to it Pentimento isn't the problem, lack of a tutorial or lack of good matchmaking is

[@TeeHeeSteve]

The fact that you compared it to dead hard warrants it being too strong and in need of a nerf. The problem is solo q is not that coordinated and knowledgeable enough 90% of the time to combat it.

[@arthurlepy3203]

What about wretched fate ? Should one survivor have their personal pentimento to avoid it to the entire team ? Because honestly if you just play on the fear of having pentimento and the killer has a permanent 30% slowdown on one survivor that’s very good