IS-PM05 - High-carbohydrate or high-fat diets for optimizing training adaptation and performance?

[@XX-is7ps]

That second talk is the best overall summary of the current state of appropriate fuelling for endurance sport that I've seen. Fantastic.

[@martinirving3824]

Fascinating - the economy factor. Oxidizing fat takes more oxygen (less oxygen efficient). So, at very high, sustained intensities, that compromises performance overall. Glucose burns fast and dirty with less oxygen required. That's what you want, perhaps, in sustained endurance activity at the elite level. But you certainly don't want that if you're sitting around the house, in an office, driving a car, or sleeping. You want to be oxidizing fat most of the time. Conclusion: Pushing carbohydrates to the general population (average/low VO2 max) caused people to become increasingly glucose adapted. This had the effect of lowering VO2 max and metabolic rate of the general population even more. Just what you don't want. Hence: diabesity epidemic.

[@MichaelLoweAttorney]

Double threshold training days is all the rage now with endurance runners. I believe the Norwegians pioneered this method. Training like the Ingebrigtsens is where it’s at now.

[@greganikin7003]

Agreed. It’s pretty easy to get rid of lactic acid after intensive workout, so u can easily do 2 workouts per day few time a week.

[@Seraphim_Belisarius]

Well, to me, the most effective wait to perform is to for the most part, consume LCHF, when a strenuous activity is upon us, eat a good portion of glucose. Once you’re done with said activity, your body can switch back to consuming fat for your daily energy needs, such as sleeping, walking, and just staying alive. I love LCHF, but I’d be lying if I said I performed better with no glycogen. Just earlier, I went and did a heavy weightlifting session, and I ate about a spoonful of honey and hour before, and it made a huge difference.

[@IT_Farhan]

100%, this is the strategy I have personally taken, although I only recently started doing racing so prior to that I can only go by feel and not data. I have been on and off keto for 4 years and like you I feel strategically eating carbs is the way to go.

[@greganikin7003]

With fat oxidation it’s might be good to be fasted fro some time and exercise but to achieve higher lactate levels you need to be feed. And when endurance athlete exercise - the train with high lactate levels to teach body how to work with high lactate levels. And without carbs you will not be able to achieve desired speed of exercise to produce big amount of lactate.

[@MorozovStepan]

Great performances! Thank you 👍 Are there any links to research? Where can I view the material?

[@martinirving3824]

Graph at 41;05 tells the story. Nice data there. I've been exercising fasted for about 6 years now. I was a "believer" once I tried it. There's a synergy between fasting and exercise because they are both catabolic. Exercising in a fed state is sending mixed signals to the body; that is, a combination of anabolic and catabolic states.

[@MasculineIdeal]

never seen a real athlete say they perform better fasted

[@5kribbles]

@@MasculineIdeal I think it's not about performing better while fasted, it's about inducing more positive adaptation from training while fasted.

[@MasculineIdeal]

@@5kribbles Why do most people feel better to train with sugar though.

[@5kribbles]

@@MasculineIdeal I would guess it's because when you're training you are depleting muscle and liver glycogen stores. Your body is aware of this so it makes replenishing that feel good. Interestingly studies suggest you don't have to actually replace the stores, you can trick your brain. Check out de Ataide e Silva T, [et al]. Can carbohydrate mouth rinse improve performance during exercise? A systematic review. Nutrients. 2013

[@5kribbles]

@@MasculineIdeal I think there are neurological pathways which detect low and depleting muscle and liver glycogen, then make it feel good when you replace that. See "Can Carbohydrate Mouth Rinse Improve Performance during Exercise? A Systematic Review"

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

changing the stimuli to get maximal fat oxidation is the right approach. i think i know why: if you do SIT, you will grow mitochondria but do not multiply them. growing them bigger and stronger ends at some point when mitochondria cannot grow bigger anymore. then doing SIT again does not make sense anymore. so you have to do fasted LISS in zone 2. there will be a similar pathway activation through AMPK/PGC-Alpha. However, the signals are somehow different because now the mitochondria are dividing. that means that we have now more but smaller mitochondria. doing LISS all the time also does not make sense anymore because small mitochondria cannot divide anymore. so you have to do SIT again to make them grow again. conclusion: you need to do SIT and LISS in an alternating protocol to get maximum fat oxidation.

[@deepaksinghrawat7498]

Suggested hours of carbohydrate loading before competition is (A) 1 - 4 hours (B) 6 - 9 hours (C) 9 - 10 hours (D) 11 - 12 hours Which is the best Answer?

[@moderationjpk1]

Thanks a lot for sharing these content for us.

[@TebTengri]

I'd also be interested in seeing what adaptations occur and to what degree based on glycogen or lack thereof after the stimulus and at various intervals after, 12h, 24h and 48h. I think most studies agree CH can enhance muscle protein synthesis beyond what just amino acids/protein can but that isn't the only training adaptation

[@martinirving3824]

Well, in her introduction, Louise Burke put it out there (perhaps a little defensively) where she's coming from (athletic performance at the elite level. Elite cannot be over-emphasized). The reason the so-called "diet wars" came about and has become so contentious is because the processed food and sugar industry has consistently used the example of the performance requirements of elite endurance athletes in order to sell sugar drinks and gels to non-elite athletes. It is now well understood that maximum athletic performance requirements may not, and typically does not, translate to optimal health and longevity potential. That's why we're in this mess. That, and the fact the food industry can make a lot of money selling carbohydrate-rich, nutrition-poor, food product cheaply. World-wide diabesity epidemic has been the result while people are blamed for "not doing it right." We can expect this flawed conflation (disinformation) to continue as long as unregulated capitalism exists and is allowed to control the dialog and run rough-shod in the marketplace.

[@thanhpro163]

Thanks for posting

[@michaelharrington6698]

Amazing, thank you

[@Washtechna]

Thank you! Great info. Have you considered high fat almost no carb like a carnivore eating plan (no honey). Moving from KETO to carnivore improved my oxygen use and reduced inflammation in lungs to the point I don’t have to use a sports induced asthma prescription. Also this has improved red blood cell OMEGA3:6 and K2 in 8 eggs per day opens arteries long term (decalcification). My brain also works better. I am APOE3:4 so that may also be a factor. Please consider it. Again, thank you for the study results.

[@immers2410]

There’s no evidence that carnivore improves performance

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

@1:35:45 "ketogenic diets are clearly not appropriate for endurance athletes" i think this is completely wrong. LISS training on keto is more effective because the CH group needs to empty their glycogen tanks longer before the training session gets effective. so people on a ketogenic diet need to do 30min shorter LISS but might profit from doing SIT more often. if i remember right, the yonly did 10k and 20k where the CH people have enough CH with them. within a 42km run this could be a problem. 42k and longer is where keto athletes can shine. i consider that endurance. but as i said, also the exercise needs to fit the diet. did they consult steven phinney?

[@nj-kh5vw]

The guy that won the sub 2 hour maratho kipcho was drinking sugar drink every 15 mins.

[@poeltlpower1880]

If you want to argue with a point from a science conference: First, don't misquote them it completely discredits any points you may have, secondly, actually provide research to back up your claims and thirdly don't ask if they consulted a person with an obvious bias. You'll notice that those that are actually knowledgeable and unbiased in the field don't make their living writing books to the general public (Jeukendrup) instead they write academic books if they write any books at all. Thinking asking Stephen Phinny for reliable information on diet is appropriate about as appropriate as a sports scout asking an athletes mum how good they are... You're going to get an incredibly biased point of view.

[@nj-kh5vw]

InconnuGlitterBoy he uses carbs thats it my man you said it.the dude gets carbs in during running liverstreaming lol

[@greganikin7003]

Lmao. Go ahead and run 42 km without carbs and only on fats with 2:54 min per km on average… clown