IS PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER SCRIPTED?

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Damn, video is live for 33 mins and there's already some excellent comments. Thank you, I'm reading each of them to hear about your experiences

[@themanwiththegoldengun1998]

I'm a myclub player, rarely see scripting but when I played FIFA, it annoyed the he'll out of me the scripting in that was terrible

[@fitonitube]

Hi Spoony, i personally call it "bad luck scenario" is sometimes being applied by the engine to us, where from beginning of the game, you can feel that all your players suddenly seems reluctant to play, they just keep on making silly missing passes, missing shots, wrong positions and even more they are not hungry for the ball, while the legend com as always 95% accurate and further more, very hungry for the ball. I can say this, because on all previous games we've played, our players were normal (good passes, good shots, hungry for the ball), and even those matches right after that randomly setup "bad luck" match turns everything back to normal again, so i'm almost sure that this is scripted by the engine, for the sake of getting close to the realism of course. My personal finding is that generally the are certain minutes range in the game, where suddenly the com becomes extremely superior (extremely tight pressing/extremely accurate long-range crosses/our defenders let loose com's strikers), which is around 30" to 35", close to half time, 50" to 60", close to full time. That extremely tight pressing is super-annoying since we cannot build from the back, for every pass is blocked and every ball bounces to the com front players. In time of desperation, i find things that is a bit strange, in that playing in Legend difficulty with Level 1 pass support or even off and put mentality on attack, seems to helpi very much in that it is then harder for the com to intercept our passes and successfully force com defence to make mistakes, whereas in Superstar difficulty with level 2 pass support the com seems too superior in every aspects of the game, leaving us common people little chance to win. Can not complain though, since we PES players demands for gameplay realism over FIFA, well those hard times above is exactly how the demands translated onto video game :-) Keep on creating great videos mate!

[@SpoonyPizzas]

@@fitonitube thanks dude

[@fitonitube]

@@SpoonyPizzas Spoony, may i kindly suggest new form of videos to be added to your future list for us loyal subscribers? The idea is that you study tactics videos from youtube accounts such as "football made simple" or "nouman" where they explain about formation a team has with/without the ball, build up phase when under pressure, how to overload opponent's midfield/certain part of the field etc and then you try to apply those tactics onto PES. I trust it would be interesting for us to finally be able to by then somewhat "measure" on how accurate does PES ability to simulate real life soccer. It would probably bring end to the all time classic never ending debate in popular search engine regarding PES vs FIFA hehe. Its just suggestion mate, dont feel disturbed. You're already doing well for us PES students all over globe.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

@@fitonitube great suggestion...I'll note it down for future for sure. Thanks mate

[@Xit0mz]

It's incredible the level of scripting on this game. Literally thousands of times I've played vs HORRIBLE players, I win by 3 or 4 in the first minutes and suddenly they start scoring goals because my defenders collide one into each other, don't deflect a single ball, etc, etc... Mindblowing.

[@justineaton5970]

Scripting is engineered drama to make the game appear more challenging/fun. It's lazy programming in my opinion, rather than improve A.I. they just sabotage human teams.

[@mojavan4596]

It definitely doesn`t make it fun tho

[@pannaking4630]

Yeah they just make ur team weaker nd their team stronger hhhhhhhh .i just set the game to top player nd enjoy real team strength

[@splinter360]

lmao pretty much.

[@Nqk2010]

Its true. So many times, especially in master league derby match when the AI beat you 1-0, they will make some stupid mistake and let you score 1-1 in last minute. And they call it "Drama"

[@samuraicake5015]

Late reply, but I recently got into PES - I have quite severe OCD and the scripting destroys my mental. I only wanted to enjoy some casual Master League, but the game goes out of it's way to manipulate and control my engagement and what is happening in game. I shouldn't be able to with 100% accuracy predict when the AI is about to score, and because of that, it makes all my goals feel meaningless

[@blues05]

Scripted or not, what bugs me the most in PES20' is the awful responsive input. Every touch is damn too heavy and players reaction speed is as fast as a snail in every situations. Gonna skip PES21' and see y'all in PES22' with the UE5.

[@ShikaIE]

Yes! Slow pass but the ball can still float when the player touch it lol!

[@delesegdevassy9685]

The same with me

[@nubfix3161]

TRUE, I'm okay with scripting goals, it will rage me a little but the most important part is the fucking responsiveness. I hate this Data Pack. I can win almost all the games but it won't let me score because the players touches are heavy and they don't know what to do when receiving the ball, ex. Controlling/receiving lob passes

[@TopBananna]

Take pass assist off and play manually

[@liranMashina]

correct, its the worst pes that i can remember

[@dans9855]

As a West Ham fan you have now confirmed for me that there is 100% scripting in this game - Carlos Sanchez scored :^)

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Lmao I'm so glad this comment got so many likes

[@alibobsmarland9572]

I've just completed four seasons as West Ham and they are a fantastic club to start with. Haller,Anderson, Rice, Diop and Fabiansdki are superb and you start with team spirit in the high 90s. Haller becomes the best target man in the game and won European Player of the year!

[@pesnordy2698]

@@alibobsmarland9572 I'm in my fourth season with West Ham as well :) Haller had a really good third season, best scorer in the league. I'v never won Player of the year though!

[@onor13]

An example of scripting in PES in Master League ( works in previous PES's too): sometimes the AI scores an early goal (during first 15miwhich seems odd (like due to a deflection or something). Kill the game, and I do mean kill, like terminate the PES process from task manager. When you start the game again you will play the same match again and guess what, the AI will score an early ridiculous goal again. You can try it over and over again there is a very high probability of this happening again and again. Once I restarted the game 5 times and the result was always the same. It will not be the exact same goal, but the point is that an early goal will happen no matter what you do

[@leightonmorrell3597]

I've tried this. It doesn't happen if you change your selected team and the team spirit is changed

[@onor13]

@@leightonmorrell3597 I never tried with a different team. But also this early goal from AI should look random as if it was scripted (because it actually is). If you let AI score, you the goal is due to your mistake it will never work. I can spot it for sure maybe once out of 15 games

[@leightonmorrell3597]

I think it's something to do with the defence of the player's team. Almost like a separate team spirit just for the defence. I switched a young defender and Left back and no early goal was conceded. It finished 0-0

[@ovoj]

This is bullshit. There's many times I've restarted games and this doesn't happen. Confirmation biad

[@thejoks3560]

glad to read this, I thought myself that I was really really bad for this game.. PES scripting obviously a disaster. I have to think twice about getting PES again. It's not fun kinda depressing...yet not even challenging if AI somewhat forces to create a change and scores the absurd goal just for balancing. I can win the champion league no matter what but I don't know it just not fun.

[@higgins007]

By my definition, "rival" games in ML alone prove that scripting exists. I prefer to call it "momentum" though, as a lot of people refer to "scripting" to mean a pre-determined sequence of actions that you have no control over. Some people believe, for example, that the physics will be interrupted to pragmatically make your shot hit the post and stuff like that. That sort of stuff is not in the game, but "momentum," where your players start performing like dogshit or your opponent like gods? Yeap. It's unclear the mechanism they use to do this. I suspect it's simply by invisibly altering your team chemistry and then letting the side effects of that play out naturally - everybody knows what a huge effect this stat has on your team. Although it could just be a simple reduction in all player stats like the form arrows. There is also some heavy handed "balancing / rubber banding" and this is most obvious in the Online Divisions mode. Pick a 5 star team and play against a 3 star team. Your 95 pace winger will be stuck in the mud and your 92 rated beast of a CB will be dominated by his 73 striker. Consistently. Edit: What you refer to as "catchup" is normally called "rubberbanding" in the industry - popularized first by mariokart. I really meant "balancing" for the Online Divisions mode as opposed to catchup or rubberbanding.

[@uranderson]

This is exactly right. Momentum is definitely coded into the game. If you are winning by 1 or 2 goals late in the second half the other team will get a boost while your team gets a debuff. (Could be attribute penalties or team spirit like you say). Player switching is messed up, simple passes go awry, good challenges will not win the ball due to a lucky bounce or just a boost to the ball carrier's balance and/or physical contact (and a debuff to your ball winning). It happens like clockwork every single game. At pretty much the same time right around the 60min mark as long as the losing team is still in touching distance (1 to 2 goals), but if you can get that third goal the momentum boost won't kick in and you'll have an easy time of it. I've played thousands of games and the pattern is obvious. It's been happening with PES since I started playing back when it was called Winning Eleven 7. And it's beyond frustrating. I wouldn't have a problem if it was done in a more interesting or subtle way, by having it tied to team spirit or number of leaders, strong personalities in the side, or related to events like shots, chances, level of stamina, quality of possession etc... So that it would be more realistic and you could find ways to deal with it organically. That might actually be interesting but the way it's handled now is so formulaic, predictable and stupid. My experience is in ML vs the AI btw, I don't play online enough to comment on divisions play.

[@higgins007]

@@uranderson Not enough of a sample size to draw a conclusion, but I do notice in ML how suspiciously often the title goes down to the last game!

[@SpoonyPizzas]

@@higgins007 Good points about titles going to the wire. Also.. try scoring more than 1.5+ goals per game with a player for the entire season - almost impossible which is why I recommend having multiple strikers - wonder what happens on Beginner level? lol.

[@bozo9309]

@@higgins007 really? That barely happens for me. I usually lose out or achieve a title many games away from the end.

[@higgins007]

@@bozo9309 Like I said, it could be a coincidence because I don't really play ML to death, but of the dozen or so seasons I've finished at the top, it seems like roughly 8 or 9 of those were last day thrillers, with 4 or 5 of those having the top 2 teams separated only by goals scored!

[@simonrose3009]

Hidden stat boosts/nerfs may well be a thing, but the most frustrating thing about playing against the AI is that you can feel a 'hidden hand' controlling your players so that the AI is allowed to pull off pre-ordained moves. Your players will go into animations that mean they resist user input until said animation completes, there will be blatant delay in your player's responsiveness when using second man pressing, your non-controlled defending players will deliberately move and create gaps for the opponent to pass into (happens Vs humans too). You can often feel a hidden force or bubble preventing your players getting near the AI. When you add in the fact the AI makes far too few human-like mistakes, and that their response time to YOUR inputs is far too fast (which partly explains why skills are utterly useless), these factors add up to a miserable user experience and something that can loosely be called 'scripting'. A suitable analogy would be a game of chess where at certain pre-determined moments you are not allowed to move certain pieces even though it would clearly be the best move to make: an arbitrary difficulty factor which breaks the basic rules of the game in your opponent's favour.

[@RapperRank]

The best way to put it you control 1 player, the AI controls the other 21

[@hugoboss917]

Is that even a question? Imo it works the same way as team spirit, only being hidden and you are out of control of it. You are the only youtuber denying offline scripting which had been around for ages. Maybe you are too good but I don't agree with you here.

[@Linkupbrampton]

Pes is definitely scripted, there's moments when you just feel the players are off key. They don't respond like they should, their passing is off, they feel sluggish, computer opponents who are slower than your player is out sprinting you, the ball keeps rebounding to your opponent etc etc. There's even moments when you pass the ball to your player and it goes pass him as if he's in a different match. Overall it's a really nice game, if only they could have fixed the responsiveness of the players, the first touch and revert finesse dribble back to R2 instead of the Right Trigger.

[@officialmrakachukwu]

Exactly......thought i was the only one

[@antekrslovic6929]

It can be pissing off stuff. A simple 2meter pass that gets turned over. Costing you a dumb goal. Really gets the controller smashed John McEnroe style.

[@thirtythirty9054]

Exactly, that's what I mean

[@morbius8997]

This game pisses me off literally every time I play it. Every Master League match is the same (I play on top player). I always score in the first 20mins, dominate most of the match & at the end they always equalise with a dumb goal. The ball keeps rebounding to them, my 190cm defender gets bodied by a midget winger all the time, it just makes no sense.

[@adriantrinidad1296]

my players were moving like slugs while the ai were running like the fucking flash

[@mohametgiapra9932]

So I've been playing pes for many years now. I believe there is Scripting in the game and i ll give you my perspective on it. - So first of all what is Scripting in my opinion? (I play only offline so i will talk about that). Scripting is not necessarily a predetermined result when you're about to play a match. It's kind of decisions or actions that the AI takes and trying to force it on the game depending on what happens during the game. - Scripting I've noticed: I'm mostly playing master league and what I've noticed is that in the rival/final in a championship/ or match that determins a pass on the next stage you're always as a player in disadvantage against the AI. So basically what i mean is that, yeah sure in those kind of matches the motivation is stronger and i accept AI being better, what I can't accept is my players with Ike 84 and above rating not be able to play simple passes or not be able to control them, I've seen many cases where i need a goal and try my best to build up my attack and then many of my players decide to leave the ball pass in front of them without doing anything about it while I'm pressing the buttons to go to the ball. Then the scoring/shooting part: I just can't accept my CF with 85-87 finishing losing 4-5 shots one on one or in a very good position in one game. This is not acceptable. The defending part: Like in the passing i mentioned earlier, my players should not just leave the ball passing through them near the edge of my box. The ai just passing through my defense and while im trying to cover the gaps or if im already in the right position there are times where my defenders even move out of the way so the ai would be able to pass the ball in to my area and score. I get the ai being more effective and score more goals with a few shots but when you screw with my players that's Scripting for me. It's something that happens that i don't have control over, like the examples i mentioned, me trying to go to the ball and the player just sits there or just letting the ball pass through them. Usually from the first 2-5 minutes of the game i already know that the match will have scripting issues, that's how obvious it is to me.

[@prashanth8969]

Exactly 100 % true.

[@JohnDoe-cf7jr]

That’s a perfect description of scripting in the off-line mode. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Very frustrating when your own players don’t respond to certain situations despite your best efforts and have lead in their boots.

[@michaelsanderes7630]

I agree with u bro

[@Horpetii]

It is "funny". I can really tell where I am after kick off and passing 2-3. If my players do strong and healthy passes: we are ok. If the pass barely reach my players: we are not ok. :D That momentum can change during the match though. It is not a problem if you are forced to adapt. That makes the game more difficult even without difficulty changes. But it works vica-versa.. but mostly against the player from Superstar difficulty according to my experience. Yeah nobody likes playing with shitty team while you as a player wants to push and be creative and fast - then you realized your players do not want to play that day lol. Sad.

[@GH0-S-T]

*HUGE ASS SIGH* This is the truest thing I've read today. Okay so i play offline as well, ML too, and i started a new season and i guess i was in my zone coz i haven't lost or drawn a single match (no bullshit). I play on Top Player coz anything below is easy for me and i don't enjoy Superstar coz they make your players a lot stupid (like really really stupid), i do play exhibition matches on Superstar tho but it's Top player for Master League. Anyway sha, and i kid you not, the game keeps throwing crazy matches my way like i play harder than usual despite having a better team. Big teams don't do much but teams like; Everton, Palace and Brugge, Jesus Christ it feels playing against 22 of em. One thing i noticed was at a certain point right after winter transfer, most if not all teams started to use the same tactic against me: All out defence, attack level 1 and hug the touchline. I just interpreted this as the game saying "you have to at least draw for us to make it easy for you". Twas frustrating especially how the AI intercepts most of your passes with little effort and how your ST with 85 finishing can't score against a 77 rated keeper multiple times. I even felt like deliberately losing so the game would ease up on me but fuck it. Challenge accepted. I love PES. If the AI goes hard then ama go harder. In my opinion: The only script that's a problem is just making your players slow/less responsive to "balance the scales". If you really wanna see your players actual abilty, then try derby matches. Derbies give the AI a speed and attack boost but it doesn't reduce or drop yours. So basically if you have a better team and don't let the frustration get to you, you'll win. One love y'all

[@el.vende.hummus]

It is quite random, friend, sometimes a team of a lower category than yours plays like Pep's Barcelona, ​​other times you easily beat France in the final of the Euro. On the other hand, there is also the matter of the absurd fouls that end in a free kick and goal. Anyway, two things for sure: 1- you should not play online because it is harmful to the mind and 2- FIFA is worst.

[@mariachipotter6875]

Depends on the definition. On Superstar and Legend difficulty the A.I. opponent gets a handicap boost. Their stats will be raised (faster, stronger, more accurate) but they won't play smarter. Also, the fact that defensive responsiveness and foul detection is awful doesn't help matters. I did A LOT of testing on Top player and above in ML. For immersion purposes, Top Player difficulty is the most "fair" but once you get used to the "tactics" the computer uses, (all teams play mostly the same, sadly) it can get pretty boring.

[@tarricksalaman5641]

FACTS 💯!!

[@adammohd8338]

u can manually change the tactics of the teams in the league u like before u start ur master league.

[@alibobsmarland9572]

Spot on.The A.I. stifles you on top skill levels by moving your players into offside positions and also stopping your players making runs to break free of defenders. You find that you pass the ball round and your attackers just stick to the defenders until you eventually lose the ball and the opposition plays an inch perfect 80 yard pass to a forward whilst you defender mysteriously runs backwards away from him.

[@Horpetii]

I agree - the problem is that Top player is so easy. It looks like its defense is "as bad as yours by default" so too easy to open up. And offense is weak as well. Superstar does the same things but defense is much more packed (even with 60 defense awareness :D) and won lot of 50/50.. But according to my ML career a good 75-80 OVR team on the pitch can easily beat all the top teams. When I had only 65-70 OVR players it was much more difficult to manage that handicap. I played legend only few times in PES2020 but with 70-75 OVR team it was no joy at all. I may try it once in my current ML if my 17-18 year old players reach 20 lol. Need a certain level of player skill to be able to manage that handicap and do not look at the star level of the opponent but expect always Barca. :D

[@alexg9155]

Scripting is definitely a thing, but it's not like the game decides the score beforehand. It's just making it harder for you (or even for the AI, believe me) to play, missing easy passes, hitting the post a billion times, losing every tackle and stuff like that. The game usually does it to reproduce real life momentum. I feel it happens on my favor as well on ML e.g. I'm losing 2-0, I go 2-1 and then the AI goes into dumb mode, giving the ball away, missing tackles while my players turn into Messis due to the adrenaline and euphoria of a comeback being now more likely. I like it, it makes the game feel real. You, as a player, should react accordingly! That's why people cry, they feel the momentum shifting towards their opponent but they don't start playing safe, they still try to string dumb passes etc. However I do feel like sometimes it is overdone, and I do agree that sometimes the game decides which side is favored online randomly (offline the game usually favors the Home side, which again, is totally realistic). Learn to feel the game and your scripting concerns will be gone in no time. Also, switch to manual for a rail free experience :)

[@SpoonyPizzas]

How come I can go nearly undefeated if there's scripting?

[@kalashnakov0477]

@@SpoonyPizzas I agree with Alexandru Grigoras, I've experienced the game shift whenever a goal was scored or conceded. Could it be Konami's way of trying to replicate how a teams respond during a match?

[@bozo9309]

@@kalashnakov0477 I take it as momentum, as the mood changes in real games when a goal is scored. This would lead to the winning team more confident in attacks. I usually think it's in the gamer's head but even if it wasn't it isn't scripting, as it is away of making the players more lifelike and it doesn't determine goals.

[@alexg9155]

@@SpoonyPizzas I would say that's because it balances out overall during a match if you know the game well enough (when to attack, when to possess, when to rush, when to drop back). It's up to the player, as I said before, to get a feel for how the match is going and make the most of the momentum shifts. I'm pretty sure, actually I know for a fact having watched your videos, that you don't rush forward like a robot when you can clearly see the AI is being "pumped", and, at the same time, you push as you feel the AI is making mistakes. It's how football works, that's why we don't "see" scripting in the game as the majority of people do. Having said that, online is so random that I gave up after 5 games, so yeah, not much to say on that part. EDIT: On another note, I played 4 games last night after patch 1.0.8.1 or whatever that was, it seems they updated the game's executable. I've found players to be a bit more responsive, the referee now seems to give fouls on contacts that he would have ignored before (although the determination on what side to give it to still has work to be done) and the game seems smoother overall. What are your feelings?

[@MatDerKater]

@@SpoonyPizzas Undefeated against the AI? You try playing a decent human opponent when the AI has decided it aint gonna be your day. Aside from that, 'good' players are 'good' on games like ProEvo, cos they are the most efficient at exploiting holes in the AI. In that sense, ProEvo can't be considered an E-Sport, as being 'good' isn't so much about skill, as it is about relentlessly exploiting the most vulnerable components of the AI mechanics.....so people who do that, relentlessly, will tend to win far more games than people who take the game at face value and try and play actual football.

[@vincentjiang2727]

Sometime when u play online, the ball always go back to your opponent till they score

[@_staffycat_3032]

I think anyone whose played enough ML will have had the experience of running into a god like goalie in a cup final or big Derby. I think there is definitely a stats buff for the ai in big games which helps to create tension in those big games. It's bloody irritating but equally it does raise the tension and make those late winners all the more satisfying. I think most "scripted" goals can be traced back to a bad player error. The best AI teams ruthlessly punish errors in big games. Do a manual passing video. Please. :)

[@feigenblatteric8007]

So true. As playing PSG on superstar, I can beat teams, but when playing Marseille or Champions League final, the game become very very difficult to score, I end up win 1-0 or 2-0 and thing is their goal become 'nuer' and very difficult to score a goal.

[@candyrub1105]

Summary mate: Kickoff goals Comeback goals - defense is gone everytime Late goals 75-90m, defense even low becomes wide open and dont intercept 90 rated player misses easy passes Top players become really heavy and slugish while other team is on steroids (form doenst matter) Stats become irrelevant Player selecion becomes super slow Your players lose all rebounds You cant keep any balls. I play pes everyweek with friends locally, we are 9 guys and all know when teams are under script. Pro players already adressed this issue, incluind world Champion.

[@adammohd8338]

late goals might be the affect of the stamina drain but scripting does exist for kick off goals

[@candyrub1105]

@@adammohd8338 I thought about that before, but stamina has zero impact because even players with green bar become idiots and all over the place, while a forward with red bar can still be sprinting. Try put the defense bar on blue, it wont work because the team will still be open if the cpu puts script against you, so the other team will have a chance to score. Me and my mates joke around when we cannot control our own team and say "ah we need to wait until late game for the comeback..." and it does happen, specially if you are winning by 1 goal your team cannot control a ball, will feel heavy and miss most passes or give ball possession straight away, and loos all rebounds/second balls. I just want the game to be better and fair, because I cannot stand FIFA.

[@alibobsmarland9572]

Master League is different has it has certain peaks and troughs built in at certain stages of the season, basically to stop you winning every game. I usually find the first couple of matches at the start of the season are easy but then the next couple are tricky. It doesn't depend on the opposition rather than at what matchday it is .That's why the last couple of matches in a season are always tricky to create tension. It also explains why you can sometimes win easily at Anfield and the next match lose at home to Bournemouth.

[@Maniti7777]

Its Exactly like that ;)

[@el.vende.hummus]

@@candyrub1105 agree. Very good reading of the game!

[@paulpetroleum]

Definite scripting online. The two reasons you mentioned happen a lot... And usually against players ranked waaaaay lower. I'm no amazing player, I'm 900- 950 rated usually... But I always worry when I see someone around 300-500. Youll see their passes work better. Even when they're not facing the right way. You'll see your defenders just stand still. You'll see the ball somehow just slide through your defenders at times too..

[@TheFelix1703]

People mistake scripting for pre-determined match results or certain occurences in a game that end up being a deciding goal or whatever. To me, scripting starts as soon as the game starts to interfere based on a result, based on the matchup etc. When a player with 90 speed is unable to pass a player with 75 speed in a sprint duel in a chase for the ball, that is scripting because there is no way that the 75 speed player should be able to keep up. The statline should give the fast player a clear advantage. When the game starts to mess with your passing and shooting, thats also scripting, especially on the pass assist 1. If I tap the button, I expect a pass that does not have much power behind it. Yet, in some occasions, the power does not match with the pass that is being played and, to make it worse, the direction also does not match with the input. And that excludes long balls, random player switching and abrupt stops of runs made by the striker because this comment would become a book if I started to write about those. And as a last example, you can see scripting in AI behaviour. In FIFA 13, the game where the infamous spreadsheet about adjusting player abilities tied to the score was found, you would sometimes find your fullback being completely lined up in the wrong spot, mostly out wide and in no context with others. I also count the automatic shooting in FIFA 18 as one, an instance that I had on multiple occasions, when a deflection went to my player, who shot automatically without me pressing a button. In PES 2020, you will find this behaviour especially in midfield, with passes, that could be easily intercepted and the ai either lets them through or they have a shocking touch that coincidentally goes to the opposition. Is PES scripted? Yes, absolutely. The game has mechanics that are supposed to simulate player behaviour based on performance. When your player has a lot of bad passes, it decreases his confidence and he plays worse. Thats normal and understandable. However, there are several occasions of scripting where the game feels out of your control, to the point, where even the super cancel does not matter (long balls). Its why I will turn to full manual passing for the next PES to try and eliminate the game from taking control over my inputs. Scripting should make the game feel more real and not give the player a frustrating experience. Those are my two cents.

[@mikerealundergroundmusic8057]

Best comment

[@Horpetii]

Supercancel is a godsend against "scripting" even in 1 match there are ton of situation where you could lose the ball without it as the outcome of an 50/50 or a lose ball was pre-defined. Not mentioning the fact that you feel YOURSELF in the pitch much more than without it (you want the player to move to the ball and pull the LS but he does not move just wait for it :D). etc etc. And I agree with full manual to take these elements out from the equation as well however it is not something for everyone. I just like playing with PA1 and shoot in regular as it is comfortable and fun to me. I do not really want to aim all my passes properly when passing around (a simple pass to a moving opponent is calculated) just play around and watch the opportunities. However I think in FIFA 1x when I played 2v2 with my friend who used all manual I switched the shooting to manual and it was pretty fun. Suddenly the shoot script disappeared. :D FIFA was totally shocked by full manual I remember lol.

[@Ljungdurst]

To add another point of view to the discussion, I myself have been playing Become a Legend mode for 3 seasons. The first season when my defensive midfielder was shit with 69 stat, I played like a god scoring all long-range shots like crazy. Then comes season two where I couldn't even shoot on target from outside of the box. Then comes the worst, season 3, my team went on a streak of 13 goal-less draws. Yes, 0-0 scoreline for 13 straight games. If this game is not scripted or broken at some point, I don't know what is.

[@cjhmdm]

I view “scripting” as the “AI” taking over, making you lose control of your “controlled” player going after a loose ball... where the player you are controlling literally stops responding to your input. Stuff like that... Oh, and don’t even get me started on the penalties/fouls... lol

[@adriantrinidad1296]

my players do good in some matches, play like pros. but then in some matches they just bump into each other, they pass to the opposing team, LIKE WHY ARE U DOUNG THIS NOW AND NOT BEFORE!!!! it’s always in the finals too!!!!

[@simsoccerlive4059]

Spoony bro, I used to believe in scripting but several things have changed my mind. One example is that if i play over the same match in a tournament the results will be different. Therefore the tournament outcome cant be scripted. Also bro let us face it...if that FA cup match yesterday between Chelsea and Man United was on Pes, everybody would be saying De Gea's mistakes were scripted. These things happen in real soccer and people dont go screaming that it is scripted.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

100%

[@Horpetii]

Yes "shit happens" in real life too. Just it is annoying in a game where you want to be in control. :) If you can let that control go and "feel the realism script" you might have fun. But not easy...not for me. :D I play and want to win to prove and develop my skill (and getting good result in a match can be an indicator of my skill). And sometimes AI wants be to believe I am just trash. :) Can be tilt really fast by "realism script". But to be honest I accept and got used to the by default handicap on Superstar difficulty. It is neccessary as Top player is so weak defensively (too) so it is very very easy to penetrate. At least Superstar makes me playing the ball more around and not just brute force goal (in that regard the "handicap" is that regardless of the defense aweraness they position pretty well and get packed, etc. - it is not in the same level of your team as your team defense makes lot of mistakes which needs to be corrected by the user only controlling max. 2 players in one time. But from a certain level (of your team) it becomes easy too as your players actually can compete with AI even when nerfed. Mentally I am not ready for Legend yet!!! Not even my team. :D

[@Mercaison]

I think the game is "scripted" but i mean there's a sort of "handicap balance": A temporary boost/nerf of players' stats or a boost/nerf to the AI of one of the two teams playing. I don't think a match result is pre-determined. (I'm only talking about online)

[@sampopel]

Good to see others use the word because "momentum" is exactly the word I use - or "the momentum script". It's particularly demonstrable in Exhibition matches, so you can switch sides and see it work against you, and then for you, in an instant. eg. if you get say 2-0 up at half-time, in the 2nd half, there are many matches when it is obvious the momentum is now scripted to be against you and with the CPU (eg. all you passes are suddenly lame, all your shots hit the post or go just wide) -and the CPU suddenly is playing like Barcelona on steroids, way above their first half performance and way beyond their stats. So when this happens, I sometimes switch sides, so I am now the team with the momentum script - and I often score an instant goal without trying - simple one-touch ping-pong pass - shoot - goal. It is so obvious the game is making it happen (using stat boosting/team spirit/whatever mechanic). Also, when the momentum script is against you, try switching sides so you take over the CPU side that has the momentum, then try passing the ball to the opposition striker - even with manual passing aiming right at him, the ball will go right through him and to a player on your team. Or play the ball into space so that striker would be clean through on your goal - but he will ignore it for seconds until you defenders run in to get the ball first. It is clear that the team with momentum heavily against are basically dumbed down massively to the point where they even just ignore the ball, whilst players on the team with momentum script are virtually sucked into the ball like a strong magnet.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Hi mate, what you're talking about is the AI becoming more aggressive. This isn't a momentum switch but its actually the AI changing their attack/defence strategy (I guarantee it) and it feels harder because they're now taking the game to you instead of sitting back and letting you have the ball. When this happens you need to counter it by adjusting your strategy

[@leus]

@@SpoonyPizzas nah, you also get the boost or debuff, it's not only the AI becoming more or less aggressive. It's more obvious when you not very good at the game (because you don't get save enough momentum to respond to the boost). I don't think it's scripted actions but the stats that change. (And the player selection gets screwed badly sometimes, I've counted three players closer to the ball than the one the game lets me select. You need to use manual select to overcome that bullshit).

[@sampopel]

@@SpoonyPizzas yeah, the AI aggression is apparent from the attack/defense mentality bar but that doesn't account for the dramatic, stat-defying increase in all cpu players' response, speed and accuracy in passing and shooting, which coincides with a reduction of the same abilities for your players. Exactly how Konami do it is their guarded secret but EA's sliders give a clear example of how altering a single global stat can dramatically alter the effectiveness of all players on a team. eg. reducing the CPU's acceleration slider to a low value effectively renders all CPU players useless. Likewise with the passing slider and shooting accuracy slider. Konami are obviously using some sort of hidden mechanism on the fly to do similar things that sliders do, such as dynamically increasing CPU passing accuracy to be much higher than nornmal, decreasing user shot accuracy to be much lower, increasing CPU response to be faster than the user's. Once a certain event happens in the match (eg. CPU scores goal), it can return the "sliders" to their normal level. These things effectively result in a change in momentum in the match and can easily be turned up and down on the fly within the program code to create their desired effect. They obviously do something similar to ensure that there is a higher probability of goals being scored in the last couple of minutes of each half. So Konami are not scripting specific events, but they are scripting the momentum and dynamically increasing/decreasing the probabilities of things happening. They're jsut not very subtle effects, which is why so many claim it's all scripted.

[@unknwn_usr3077]

@@sampopel i agree with ur point.. I dont know exactly how but they must be doing something similar to shift the momentum.

[@87mixa]

If is not scripted, how come team with rating of 64 is destroying me with laser point passes and when attacker recieves the pass he just slightly turns shots strait in goal like a Canon???

[@abdoateeg]

I only play on legendary and the scripting is insane: 1- CPU pass accuracy, any player make the perfect pass , both feets, awkward angle. 2- CPU stamina , they run all match and press like crazy 3- CPU weak foot shooting accuracy . 4- your defenders don't respond to crosses and corners, the most annoying way to concede goals. 5- CPU players strength is always greater than your players.it is not about stats. 6- slow CPU players suddenly become Usain Bolt and catch up with your striker. This is just a little of the annoying game script. I can't live with this for another year , all can easily be sorted in an update , I really hope they remove the scripting in 2021. Thank you spoony for this video, I really hope PES hear the fans voice

[@Horpetii]

I agree but what else they could do after Top player or Superstar? AI is really not that smart and creative like the human player - but from defensive point of view their defense line is coded pretty well from Superstar difficulty. Of course it is even scripted as regardless of the actual stat they do well while your defense is like top player so need lot of manual work (and you can only control 1-2 player at the same time). And added superhuman attributes needed to be able to execute that "pretty good defense" and "offense". :) AI can compete with Human only with that many handicaps... I do not really like when I am handicapped too much except being outplayed buy better skill. Yes "Online" can be competitive but after playing few matches online it was a serious no go lol. I just play on Superstar yet but it is getting too easy as my basic ML team develops. Not me was the trash in the first 2 seasons but my team and the handicap had more effect than now (now the games are not that easy probably due to catch up logic but with 77-78 OVR team I can easily win PL - only the cup and derby matches seem like Legend according to your description). But until I do not use the most effective skills and all Spoony's tips perfectly until that I can not say that I am too skilled against the AI. Probably legend needs more "most effective..." things to compete with - which is "skill". And you can still feel the opponent cheap as it is still bad just "scripted".

[@MrNiceHk]

I think it is, to an extent but in a way that makes each game ironically unique, not how Fifa is ... Fifa is on rails, feels like it, plays like it and the results of the games show it ... PES looks and feels more organic and the scripting helps in places

[@CyberHak]

Cheating doesn't help. And that's what it is

[@MrNiceHk]

@@CyberHak?

[@CyberHak]

@@MrNiceHk Scripting

[@danielclarke7036]

It's the last minute winners that always seemed 'scripted' to me

[@unknwn_usr3077]

FIFA feels like heavily scripted.. In PES, it seems as if like the players stats are heavily reduced. My team feels physically weaker than the opponent. And the team spirit and chemistry seems to be down and manipulated, especially when playing away, more worst when weather is rainy. They want us to play the hard way

[@Horpetii]

Yes but that looks "okay" as there is at least another difficulty layer which needs to be managed. It would be too boring playing all matches with the same pace and "skill". Now it is not boring as you hope for less handicap every mach lol.

[@unknwn_usr3077]

@@Horpetii I can accept any challenge that's fair and what's fair is fun.. But you can say this game is not, up to some extend, especially at High difficulty level.. Their positioning, stamina, adapting to environment, offensive awareness, the accuracy of pass and shoot, their reaction ..opponent AI seems to be better in everything..

[@Horpetii]

@@unknwn_usr3077 Yes it is not fair in that regard I agree. But AI is just an AI which is not as smart as Human therefore for higher difficulty that is needed. Not PES is the only game where it is in place. E.g. in SC2 at very high difficulty the opponent mines and produce simply faster. In CIV too. Because it is not as efficient as the human. In PES it is not different. Just that unfair play ruins the purpose of ML team development a bit... You build a better team but the opponent will always be better. :) But it is not true entirely as I see big difference in my team's play on 70 OVR and 80 OVR. The higher your team is the more the options you can do against AI (e.g. good balance player can shield the ball better regarldess off difficulty or good dribbling/accelerating player can outplay a defender). But that's all need to accept it. Superstar difficulty is not horror at all (it is personal preference and skill I am not a pro but all time futballer :D). Legend difficulty requires special extra skill to adapt to Legend bullshit - it is a little bit beyond of futball skill. There are scenarios which works and there are which not. That is why there are "most effective" "how to beat legendary" tips in this great channel. Yesterday I was really upset by my player nerf in Cup match I raged a bit here too lol. But replayed until I could manage it. I do not feel myself bad not accepting the handicap loss. Rather proud that I could do it despite the handicap. There are matches which are worth replaying IMO just to be better player - solve the situation - don't go on script tilt lol. This is a game which can be played in different ways. E.g. in ML I do not sign complete players just 16 year old youngsters (okay Ibra is Ibra ! :D) and build the team from it. Now my new generation is 17-18 years old I dont buy older than 18 - if I needed player change however I own the new era. :P Maybe in few seasons my players and me can compete with Legend difficulty. It will be a big draw back in my results but who cares hopefully I will not be fired lol.

[@unknwn_usr3077]

A guy in another comment was talking emotion which used to be present as an option in previous PES version.. I guess that is affecting the gameplay. When a players mood is down, i thinks stats get reduced and as a result, you get a poor team spirit...

[@Horpetii]

@@unknwn_usr3077 Yes on paper. :) If you play enough you will see that the "momentum script" and/or "handicap script" have more power than any stat in the game. My 90 ball control and passer David Silva can easily miss an easy pass or can't control a ball when my team overall is in "bad mood". :D And vica versa with bad stats you can play like Barca if you are in "good mood". :) But rule of thumb is that you play with players in form. :) It has effect too - and you have control over this but not the "hidden mechanisms".

[@splinter360]

Regardless of how good you are offline. Scripting 100% is in Master League and Become a Legend. Forget about the bullshit deflects etc. The worse offender is the detail. I'm talking about 60 pace players outrunning your 85 pace players. AI players with 60 physical contact being IMPOSSIBLE to dispossess. AI players with 50 jumping and like 70 heading beating you in the air and scoring bullet headers. Teams who their in game tactics are clearly stated to be wide play, all out defence, and direct, instead play like PRIME Barcelona passing circles round you and pressing you like demons for 90 mins. The AI also WITHOUT fail scores or attempts to score the same goal EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Which is is basically one straight pass that completely bypasses your midfield into the feet of the AI striker who then rolls your defender with ease and shoots on goal. With it 7 times out 10 ending up in the bottom corner. This is irrespective of player stats. So you could have Van Dijk and the AI striker is some 67 rated guy with below average stats in EVERYTHING. Doesn't matter, he'll still roll you and score. It's fucking awful and made the game unplayable for me. It's artificial difficulty and terrible game design.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

I have video proof that slow players are not as fast WITHOUT the ball. Some players (depends on dribbling ability) can run even faster with the ball once they're at full speed. Was going to do a video on it but CBA lol

[@splinter360]

@@SpoonyPizzas Yeah true but I'm talking about garbage tier players here mate. Players with no more than 70 in Dribbling, Speed & Acceleration. I'm also talking about when neither have the ball. So your attacker is chasing a pass through ball and is level with the defender but is beaten to it even though he has the better relevant stats. This doesn't happen all the time. Which is why it's obviously scripted. As it's in certain games where the computer basically just decided "Nah actually today you lose" cause you've won too many games on the spin . Also I don't know if you've ever played become a legend but I've got a perfect example of REALLY bad scripting on my channel. The description in the vid explains the circumstances off pitch too.

[@franco8flyline]

@spoony pizzas: Sorry to say but if you think there is no scripting in this game, you have not played enough Master League in Legend/Super Star difficulties. Sometimes the script is so predictable (as it syncs 1000% with the commentary, saying some bullshit like momentum has changed etc) that you know the next move the CPU makes will result in a goal, regardless of whatever you do

[@SpoonyPizzas]

35-3-0 was my ML record on Legend difficulty. Where's the script?

[@franco8flyline]

Lol again clearly you havent played long enough. Show me a full match after you have got a 3 game win streak together. Or the first game you played in the FA/Copa Del Rey against a league 2 team. Stop coping and making excuses for Konami

[@stell_r5829]

"Balanced Play" introduced to PES a few years ago [ MyClub ], PES made no secret at the time. In my experience, it takes the form of defence errors. If you are the Better Team, Higher rated, then your defense will be dumbed down. A great player can get over this, for the average player, it's a sweaty game. When you fear a low rated player more than a great one.... The game is broken.

[@TheHeiky11]

I think It’s called Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment to even the playing field in most competitive online games.

[@ruzhyophoenix4370]

MLB The Show nails difficulty. Its dynamic, with several levels between difficulties. Id youre dominating it increases difficulty a tiny if youre struggling it drops it. Not sayinf its perfect but pes needs 2 thing 1) a fluid dynamic difficulty so there's levels between difficulty levels. It could jn theory increase difficulty above legend too. 2) GAMEPLAY SLIDERS This will fix 99 percent of issues. I can debuff the cpu gk, or increase referee giving fouls in my favour and decrease my passing and shooting accuracy

[@romanosdiogenes3638]

Exactly this

[@chesterlester5770]

I almost threw my controller hitting the post every time I have a shot I hit the bar it’s a pain now There is scripting it’s obvious! The amount of times I hit the post in important matches is unbelievable! Just lost 3-1 to Dortmund after hitting the post at an open net, aimed directly where I wanted it and I’m just sick of it now

[@chesterlester5770]

@Tiger Stripey woah ok try pes 2021 it’s much better than pes 2020, I hated that game. The new game feels more real and the shooting looks somewhat realistic, still, doesn’t excuse the stupid refs and defenders who pull back when going towards a striker! I was a fifa player but switched to pes for a slower gamer like real life as that way the game feels more tactical and harder.

[@steviedee9826]

I'd say so. I don't believe that it occurs for a whole 90 minutes of game time, but there are instances where one team of the other (player or AI) seem to get massive benefits. The one that irks me the most is a deflected ball picking up momentum as it's rolling, to conveniently line up perfectly for the player receiving it on the run. Then there's the whole players with low strength attributes holding off 3 defenders, players with no pace suddenly outpacing everyone. I've had games where I just cannot get the ball out of my own half. And I've also had games where I make far too many mistakes and the CPU team refuses to punish me for it.

[@mustang27b]

Not as mush as FIFA 😂 😂😂

[@ASHFOUR20TWO]

These is definitely momentum at play, you can just feel it in the physics of the game, examples I always see. Player's run like they're in mud. AI switches your player even though you're on manual cursor change. You don't seem to score unless the AI hits a ball and you catch a rebound almost breaking the momentum. Your player's miss open goals. Player's hit air floater shots at full power. Your player gets clear through and the AI holds your shirt with no penalty or FK given. OP shielding for the AI which was removed for the player in DP5 but not for the AI.

[@pragyanadhikary1741]

One thing that also annoys me is how ai players never miss a free-kick. It's either a goal or a save or it hits the wall

[@vincentjiang2727]

Script to balance game play to make it more like real life football. Especially for the online community, ensure everyone can win and loose . This is a method that sport game developer use nowadays, such in 2k and Fifa. The purpose is to convince players to spend money on game point and keep playing the game til certain achievements. The script works in various ways. I agree with you, the online mode is heavy scripted to make money. I had a lot games where I had 10/12 shots and cpu won with 1/1 shots. Another script purpose is to piss you off in the game so that you keep playing , just like gambling addiction. Japanese had hundreds years of game development experience. They know what gamer thinks. If you piss off playing the game, that means you are enjoying releasing anger. I’m a software professional, although the software I’m working on is not related to game experience, i also add script to balance the data so it’s distribute equally. I like the random form feature (blue, yellow, purple, red arrows) in the game, it makes the match more unpredictable. However, the script control most of the game.

[@jyk0320]

Spoony, there is no scripting. The people who say it are bad at the game and their initial reaction is to blame the game aka "scripting." Rather than look at themselves and really question why they lost, they look for excuses because they just can't accept that maybe they're not as good as they think they are. Also, some games where the player is really unlucky (cpu winning with only 3 shots, for example) is just sometimes part of football. We see it all the time in real life. I mean, I PERSONALLY SAW YOU on stream go invincible for a whole season on Master League. If the game was scripted, surely one of those you would've lost. I myself won 18 games in a row on Legend in ML in PES 19. The whole scripting rhetoric is an indictment on people in general--people's refusal to look inward and rather than looking for ways to improve themselves, they just blame it on external factors. I do agree with those that say that the game has a lot of problems, but scripting isn't one of them.

[@Technomancer_TGG]

Definetely yes. ML as mid tier club in Premier League feels like frustrating nightmare: you own top clubs with crazy scores like 6-3, 5-1 etc but when playing against even teams - you are like playing against Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munchen etc. And the hell comes when you play against weaker teams. That's done because it's much easier to give buffs and debuffs to player\AI teams rather than do tonns of coding and tweaking the AI so that weaker team would be carefully playing in all-out-defence with counter attack tactics.

[@iglesiaskun]

I got really upset with the game after playing a derby against Real Madrid, I player that match at least 20 times and I just wasn't able to win, the best result I got was a 2-2 with my centerback scoring a own goal at the end of the game, I really think that was scripted

[@guyincognito566]

In my BAL save, I was playing an international for Australia against Uzbekistan (WC qualifier) and we scored our 1st goal at the 36 minute mark. Uzbekistan scored two quick, odd, goals in the 50, 55th minute. For shits and giggles, I exited the game. Same result next time around, all at the same minute mark. I did this another two times, same results. Whenever I scored a goal outside of these times, something weird happened to level it out, like a penalty (a penalty in PES!?!?) or defenders just standing still. This confirmed to me that there is some sort of predetermination in some games. Edit: big detour, side question. I noticed in my player menu next to my name, it says "the angel". Does anyone knows what that means? Is it a nickname determined off my play-style?

[@d.r.3789]

It´s a nickname. Happens in ML all the time to your best players. It seems you are quite fair playing, Angel! ;)

[@guyincognito566]

@@d.r.3789 stop it... 😉 Seriously though, thanks for the info.

[@lordbunbury]

6:00 I do agree with your assessment of why konami helps out new players, but I don’t think it’s a good strategy. The rating system should pit you up against players of similar level. I hate to lose against someone who clearly isn’t that great. I do greatly respect someone playing very well and beating me. Now if I buy coins as a new player and get Batistuta or whoever I would love for him to make my team better. Now, with the scripting it doesn’t really matter that much. If I play the game as a new player and get better and start winning more on my own rated level that should be my motivation. Not getting free wins from matches I would never otherwise win. It feels empty for all players involved. Which doesn’t make players want to play the game more.

[@main_tak_becus6689]

I played PES 2011, 2013, 2018 alot and I could win all competitions and cups in Master League using small clubs. But it is so difficult with PES 2019, I don't even bother buying 2020 because many players complain this exact same thing like you show in this video. Thank you for confirming! If the next gen instalments keep going like this, I'll drop PES for sure and move to Football Manager.

[@leus]

As others have commented, it is more likely that "momentum" is what we refer when we all think "scripting". I've observed that, in any normal length game, you have "boosts" of momentum that shift between teams: one right at the beginning, another around the 20 minute mark, another at 35 minute mark, and a big boost (for any attacking team!) at injury time. And something very similar in the second half. And you get extra momentum depending on how well you play, so you may overcome the boost for the opposing side.

[@leus]

Oh, and you can even tell a boost is in place because the *commentators mention it*.

[@mfhart]

Well said mate. I think it's often one of those things where human beings are pre-programmed to see agency in everything that happens to them (see Richard Dawkins). Often it's just the game mechanics being a bit weird, or the game mechanics being set up in such a way to try and reflect how lots of football matches actually happen. I only need to look at my team, Tottenham, and how they are playing under Jose Mourinho to see how posession and shots are not accurate reflections of dominance in the low-score game that is 11 v 11 football.

[@davjaxify]

Pes 2020 is like a slot machine now. Konami should name it Pachinko emulation soccer 2020

[@fpupesh]

Kick off goals, goals in 45+ and 90+, momentum shifts, hitting the woodwork, come back momentum, gerrard pique and the centre backs' speed in general compared to attackers. The script works both ways - for you and against you. The result is not pre-determined in a way that a game will end the same score all the time but it is pre-determined for the single game. The most annoying thing is that the same bs happens in online games and this is what is killing the fun. You just know what will happen.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

I didn't delete this comment mate. Never delete comments.

[@pesnordy2698]

PES is a living, breathing organism, it always changes! Whether or not it has a comeback mechanic, I don't know because I never play online. In my fourth consecutive ML season though, things are starting to get sweaty. This is because of the adaptive difficulty which kicks in one or two times a season (depending on your results.) From earlier code exploits we know that PES also has something called "Motivation", and a team needs motivation when they're trailing. Players become faster and more adept for a moment, and usually calm down if they score. However, I think this effect is toned down in PES 2020, players are more affected by stamina and not always ready to score when needed. I guess you could call Motivation a comeback mechanic, but it doesn't mean that outcomes are guaranteed, it just feels that way. This year I feel some of the teams are lacking in motivation, and not always going forward when they need a goal.

[@str2254]

Btw what do you think is better 5-3-2 with attacking fullbacks or 3-5-2?

[@ivi_9727]

After seeing this video I have changed my opinion, but not all. One thing that is true is that the licensed teams usually end the game winning by stupid rebounds goals or by free kicks that the referee invents at the edge of the box... One example is Mallorca. When you play against them, no matter what your team is, is like playing against the Brazil of Ronaldinho. And the other are the teams that start in offensive playstyle and can run all the pitch in the entire match without gettting tired. What do you think?? Great video

[@abdoateeg]

You got that 100% right , licensed teams are the worst.

[@ivi_9727]

@@abdoateeg if Arsenal could play like in PES 2020 the real one should be fighting for winning the premier league instead of trying to finish top 10

[@nickmoran3553]

It can be extremely frustrating at times. I’m a big PES fan but it does have its faults. I was a long time fifa player since the days of fifa 95 but the last couple of years I am PES.

[@DeviceSuspect]

I thought for a moment that this was about ISS PRO EVOLUTION and you had made a typo in the title. It was a very nostalgic moment for me. Thanks.

[@leightonmorrell3597]

Another great video Spoony. The bit where you mention online "scripting" once 2-0 up is literally "rubber banding". Just like racing games

[@christophercoey7804]

It IS in the game, and it is algorithms that lower or increase the statistics for human/cpu players based upon the skill level and possible scorelines. I am a former senior games designer and senior producer from the games industry where I worked on a number of football titles. It has been in PES for many years.

[@Sean-lv6fx]

I usually play with lower star teams in myclub, but when I tried a few games on five stars I couldn't buy a win. My win ratio on myclub is decent enough, over 60%, but I literally couldn't win a game on five stars. Now it could just be that I needed to get used to the faster pace on five stars, and the teams I was playing were usually much higher rated than mine. I was conceding ridiculously unlucky goals basically every match though, I recorded tons with the plan to upload it online. It really felt to me this year that it was more pay to win than ever, and that Konami may well have implemented something in their coding designed to frustrate players into buying myclub coins to compete at the highest rating. Has anyone ever looked at the coding in pes to see if there is any evidence for scripting? I would say it doesn't seem to effect the top players all that much, but literally all the streamers and top players in myclub buy a ton of myclub coins.

[@adammohd8338]

great video spoony, i honestly think it's a combination of gameplay bugs, bad connection, lack of skill for eg not knowing supercancel, the kickoff glitch and op players like ronaldo and lukaku. Having a good connection is vital cause the servers went backwards this year otherwise u will occasionally have all ur players go out of synchronization and it will look like scripting, headers are broken this year so having 8 shots on target with 5 of them being headers doesnt mean scripting. But for myclub i am 100% sure that they is mometum shift(I refuse to call it scripting or rubberbanding) or new players with lower rating will perform way better than higher rated players doesnt make sense.( is there scripting offline - debatable but online - yess ( kickoff goals, lower rated players boost in myclub) ( comment so i know u read)

[@jrprentice1000]

hey bud, need your help. how do i play 2vs2 online. iv only just bought online sub so have no friends. i play 3vs3 and always end up playing 2 or 3 human vs me and comp. theyre usually all massively higher rating than me as a noob. basically my online expereince is being ruined by playing higher rated players with supoerstar teams, im always lumbered with real madrid or barca. im not new to the game, iv been playing close to 25 years but have no clue whats what online, it simply isnt clear. i dont really n=know where else to go to ask for info and you know what your doing clearly

[@SpoonyPizzas]

You'll need friends mate to play 2 v 2, AI are terrible. Stick to lobby's too under local match instead of MyClub

[@Obi-WanKannabis]

The thing that makes me miffed is when your on form players dodge the ball when you want the to tackle. I have so many replays of me getting a defender to tackle someone in a perfect position and the player randomly nudges to the side to let the AI pass or shoot. I think stuff like that is scripted. Other stuff is when you get your tallest aerial ball winning defender and he gets mugged by some halfling striker to the ball on a corner just to let them score. And I've had a few times in really important matches where my striker just misses the ball when they shoot. With that said all of this is in pes 2019 cuz I haven't bought pes 2020 cuz i like skipping games since I dont feel like the games change enough every year to warrant a buy. I wouldn't call it scripting. The game isn't all knowing, but they do make it extra hard in some matches and it feels like the script is against you. So people call it scripting.

[@Ian-tx1fp]

So before testing this I wouldn’t have said scripting existed. But I tried locking the system file And the difference in gameplay was stunning. Ten games in now and I’m not getting the issues I had before. For me locking the system file has made this game a lot more enjoyable in ML

[@Moistvale]

Its even scripted when i play Custom Cup match with my friends. The Game favors one team and all the other teams against that particular team will start missing chances and play horribly. This shit is real.

[@nykia31]

What gets me are the times i have a guy like Gareth Bale or Salah in open space...and he gets caught. I'm like, "On what world?"

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Can't wait to prove you wrong in a video coming soon ;)

[@nykia31]

@@SpoonyPizzas Please do. I want to see what I'm doing wrong because it drives me insane when it happens. Also, how'd you get Borussia Dortmund in the game? PESUniverse?

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Yes mate, PESUniverse

[@rubberdinghyrapids8528]

Would love your opinion on this Spoony. Scripting is an unfortunate buzz word used to explain in simple terms what is going on that makes people think the game is unfair. It's not a word I try to use anymore due to the fact that it clouds the actual issue. The main 2 things that effect the game and make up what people call scripting are 1. Momentum and 2. Stats. Now I am pretty sure (due to reading alot on this matter including tests people have done with edited players) that you feel the game is unfair due to the fact that all of a sudden your 90 rated players feel like they are running in mud, or cant pass, or miss sitters. I believe the reason this happens is due to you players stats being shifted by momentum. For example, if you think of the momentum like a balance which favours or 'nerfs' both teams on the pitch SO if the balance is against your team you might find your 87 low pass rated Erikson has his passing stats rated to 75 (-12), whereas you opponents Erikson may have the momentum in his favour and so his pass level is boosted to 93 (+6) Now where I got the numbers from, (-12, +6) I might be incorrect but I do remember reading something many moons ago where these numbers seemed relevant in this situation. So what we have is an ever changing football game where your players stats are in flux through the game. Have you ever had a game where first half your opponents Messi is knocked of the ball easily every time you challenge him yet later in the game He is shrugging off VVD and Bechenbauer like they dont exist? Thats stats manipulation brought about by momentum. Now to me the big question is how is Momentum calculated as that is the 'balance', the driving force and in my personal opinion I believe it will favour newer and lower rated players on some occassion but I also believe it is a live changing variable in every game which is driven by your actions, pretty similar to the 'leaked' document from FIFA 2017 on changing momentum in game. So if this is the case (for example) If you have say 60% possession in the first 20 minutes of the game the momentum might just shift slightly to your opponent (Dynamic moments) just to keep it interesting. Similarly if you have a goal in the first 5 minutes, or 5 shots on target in the same 5 minutes the momentum might just shift to your opponet until they redress the balance by lets say possession being with them for the next 20 minutes or they have 5 shots on target in the next 10 minutes. All in all (and if I am right with this) then I can see how it can be annoying, frustrating and downright controller breaking on some occasions but you got to admit - Its a damn fine piece of coding. Peace.

[@metabotulism]

"Scripting", IMHO, is anything that dictates the result of the game aside from the skill of the user. In your example, hitting the post 2x and then putting it wide, it's clear you are using assisted shooting. The script is right there in the name: "assisted". You are not aiming the shot. You're not deciding whether to one-touch it, or take a controlling touch and then shoot. You're not orienting the player's body. You're not triggering his run. When you think about it, all you're doing is pressing the "soccer" button. When you need to settle the ball out of the air, do you select the correct player, move him into position, orient his body and then press a "control the ball" button at just the right moment? No. You could die while the ball is still in the air, and still emerge with possession because the AI does all of that for you. The user's hand-eye coordination COULD NOT be more irrelevant. This game (and FIFA is no different) is just Pokemon -- a slick card-collecting casino app. Every single action that every player takes is the result of a script. As you point out, it isn't really a sports simulation; it's an RPG. And what are RPGs all about? STORY. PES tells you stories. You cite as proof there is no scripting the fact that in the DYING MOMENTS of a CUP FINAL, you managed to get a nose in front and score. Hurrah! First the drama goes one way; then the other; then back the other way again! What an exciting STORY. /s It worked out the same way for me in my first cup final. I found the contrivance so insulting, that was also my LAST cup final. But that's me, I'm kind of uptight. Real sports doesn't involve storytelling. That is the main thing that separates sports from other types of performance art. The excitement comes from the LACK of a story. In fact, if you TRY to tell stories in sport (match fixing) you are BANNED AND SHUNNED FOR LIFE. That's how much we hate storytelling in the sports world, and that's why these video games will always be awful. As you point out (indirectly), glory in sports is hard-won, so most people don't bother. For most folks, if they can't beat Real Madrid on max difficulty on their first day, they'll give up, and play the other game. So we get this thin, corny insult. People get upset when scripting goes against them, but they would be getting demolished by Ipswitch Town on Beginner difficulty without it. Pokemon makes for great profits, but an awful gaming experience.

[@adiscipleoftheking4322]

3:56 it’s not a point of why you scored in the final minutes of the match. There are points in the game where there is definitely a hidden mechanic that either slows your players down or increases your chances of missing shots, loosing control of switching players, players not making runs, favouring the other team etc, which keeps the match close. If this system wasn’t in place we would see many more matches that are comfortable wins. Why should a system force my players to play worse? That makes no sense. I as the player should be in control of all the actions, not a hidden system.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

I've won games 8-0 before - no script was keeping that game close, where's the script? Does beginner level have a script too? What level does the script start at? I think it's in your mind mate. Second season so far 21 wins 7 draws 0 losses.

[@adiscipleoftheking4322]

Spoony Pizzas Im mainly talking about online gameplay

[@pragyanadhikary1741]

Willing to provide clips, can you provide a link and make a compilation?

[@michaelmcmillan3395]

Totally agree with everything in this video, have 100% seen the kick of bug so many times and the catch up bug (which I think devs call 'rubber banding') is definitely apparent online. Scripting has totallly become a bs excuse for losing, kinda like the 'my controller is broken' excuse from back in the day. Nothing more annoying than playing really well and beating a higher ranked opponent comfortably and get a message saying its scripting

[@spacedoutET]

As someone said earlier. I play everything manual now. Shooting, through ball, lob, the lot. Then play at less difficult setting to balance the odds. That way I feel every mistake is my own. I play both FIFA 20 and Pes 2020 this way since. Now I don't think of scripting unless it's put back to assisted. 😷👌

[@splinter360]

Is that enjoyable though and is it a challenge?

[@spacedoutET]

Yeah. It's fun and a challenge for sure. I keep playing in full manual with pro view now. I'm used to the angles and hitting a shot in the corner or off the post feels more satisfying. Everytime I switch back to semi or auto, I just feel like it takes that away. I see easy passes and shots going too easy

[@vt5281]

PES is defenetly scripted since the first in PS2. But in the early version it was far less activ than in the recent versions. Now to start all this, you must consider these 2 : scripting and momentum, which are 2 different things. They both affect the normal game calculations with bonus/malus. If you look at PES stats, based on 100, you can notice that all the actions you do in a match result in the game rolling a random 1-100 draw. Same as in a RPG. But all the game aspects give malus to every draw. Lets say you want to shoot on goal, if your player is facing the goal, you will have no malus, if you are on the side, you will get -10 on the roll, if the goal is on your back, you will get -30 or -40... etc Momentum is something really happening in IRL football. I mean when you have 5 shots in 15 minutes, all out, and the opponent scores on a counter, your players will take a blow. This is normal and understandable. So having a boost to a team or a malus to another, due to match circumstances is just a good thing. It really happens. You can see it on TV. Now what is not normal is scripting. Scripting how Konami made the game is something horrifying all the players. Konami coded the game in giving malus to the player at the start of the match, depending on various things. The first and major is the gap between your team and the opponent. Who in ML has never beaten Bayern 4-0 then lost the 2 next games 0-1 to Burnley and WBA (no disrespect though). This is not because those 2 had a bonus, it is because you got a huge malus to yours. ​ @Spoony Pizzas you never noticed your players were slow and fat, compared to certain matches ? Well a simple -20 to speed and accel is something not very hard to code for Konami !!! Also, if you are on a winning streak, you will get a malus. It is hard to win every game IRL, so Konami wanted to reflect that. Ok fine, but the malus is too big. This, added to the ref not giving you any FK and giving a lot to AI for nothing, makes the game very frustrating. FOR ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIVE SCRIPT EXISTS, here is a little test you can do on PES 18. In the Exhibition match General Options (when you chooses the shirts) you can remove players emotions. If you remove them, you will see the matches being completly different than with the emotions On. Unfortunatly, it is not possible in ML. These "emotions" ARE the Konami script.

[@satori-in-life]

There isn’t any debate at this point whether scripting exist in PES. It was proven nearly a decade ago by unpacking the game system/engine files themselves. Since then it’s only gotten observably worse.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Fake news. This isn't true. That's FIFA and this was in the last 6 months.

[@satori-in-life]

​@@SpoonyPizzas No offense but you're uninformed. AI scripting parameters are literally located in a file titled dt18_win.cpk that can readily be unpacked from any PES build since the switch over to the fox engine. The existence of scripting in PES, including the 2020 version, is extremely well documented.

[@adiscipleoftheking4322]

If they want to have this hidden engine in place they should have 2 online gameplay options. Dynamic difficulty version and Freeplay version where it is completely skill based. At least give people the choice.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Online should be about skill though, right?

[@adiscipleoftheking4322]

Spoony Pizzas and currently online is not about skill. The online platform is currently a mess. My Players switching on their own. My defender having possession of the ball with no pressure from the attacker and the game glitches and randomly stumbles and the ball floats into space so their attacker can run in to score. Other incidents have seen my player switch disable, and me unable to switch player and the attacker takes the ball and scores. Look I’ve won a lot more games than I’ve lost online and know what I’m talking about. Suddenly players go to pot from game to game. I recently had a game that was 4-4 I have something like 17 shots with 13 on target with 72% possession and he had 4 shots with 3 on target and somehow we drew the game. His Atlanta keeper turns into a prime manuel Nuer and saves 8 shots and my keeper doesn’t save one?

[@jar7636]

I only play online and they make it harder to score the same style of goal after you've used it once. For instance if you've scored with a finesse shot with Messi in the box, the next time you try it even if you're in a great position you will almost certainly miss or the goalie will save it. At this point I'm more inclined to pass the ball to another player who hasn't scored simply because I think the chances are it's more likely to go in even if the quality of opportunity is less.

[@hoffspur]

Great video! I don't think there is nefarious code in the game that is always "anti-player." I *do* think that there is poor programming (not retaining possession after tackles and bad player-switching comes to mind) which can easily be viewed as scripting. What script was being used when Darren Bent hit a beach ball? It's nearly impossible to recreate *all* of the variables that are present in a real-life match within a video game, but I think that this is their attempt to add something in like that (excellent point about the RPG elements in regards to player stats). Also, momentum exists in real life. To the degree that it exists in PES? Probably not, but it's not a completely foreign concept to sport. As far as the kickoff bug, it must be hard to program how a defense reacts after a kickoff, because FIFA has the same problem. Again, I defer to poor programming. Of course you always see clips where people claim scripting against them, but you rarely, if ever, see them when the "script" is in their favor. PES players, and video gamers, by and large, don't want to admit when they've done something wrong. It's refreshing to hear you say that you can't rely on the stats alone and then see you go back through and point out what happened with each chance. However, the common PESer probably doesn't want to admit that they've hit their shot too hard or tried to play a pass when their player isn't balanced. It's much easier to blame something else. This isn't a FPS where you point towards something and your bullet goes straight to it. There are so many factors beyond point & shoot (balance, strong/weak foot, defense, composure, etc.), but most people want to hit a shot and have a goal. It's not really that simple.

[@otakinhos5472]

I don't know if it's scripted or not, but for me who generally plays BAL I notice a few inexplicable "bugs". Most annoying is when your player just gives up on the play. I mean you have high stamina, start a counter attack with a speed stats over 85, and out of the blue a CB with less than 80 speed not only catches up to you, but gets ahead and takes the ball. Or when you make a pass, the ball goes exactly where your other player is but he simply DOES NOT GO FOR IT, just gives up on the play. Another is, in my opinion, the exaggeration in Ai response. I mean the ai knows what you are about to do the millisecond you press a button. Which for is just beyond realistic reflexes 😅

[@adrianzelinca8589]

I play PES 2017 on Professional most of the time,and as soon as I change to Top Player I concede some silly goals that I wouldn't concede on Professional and what upsets me is the fact that when I try to score I hit the bar almost every single time...

[@hiphopdagame]

even on PC with Modded patches and modded gameplay, i'm playing in Top Player, my teams just decided to suck most of the time and Defence easily penetrated...

[@el_rooneyo]

I’ve played a huge amount of football games - including the vast majority of Konami football games since ISS on the SNES. For me there’s not scripting in the sense that the outcome for each match is decided in advance. However, the player “condition” changes throughout the match to reflect what’s happening. It’s undeniable there is a catch up mechanic as you say, even in offline. There will be periods thought a master league season where you team don’t play as well, and periods in an individual match where the other team seem to be playing much better and your players can’t string a pass together. This to me feels like the game has given my players down purple arrows / lower team chemistry for contextual reasons in the game (eg I was 2-0 up, the AI scores, and it’s inevitable the cpu will score and equaliser). For me this feels rubbish and artificial way of influencing results. Sure if I’m good enough I can stop the cpu scoring or score myself despite the change to player condition / chemistry. However I find it frustrating and long for the days when it was skill only that determined matches! Anyway - this is what it feels like to me based on 30 years of playing football games, but I could be wrong! Love the channel Spoony - keep up the good work!

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Thanks dude and great read 👍👍

[@danielebrambilla2290]

PES 2018 - I was stuck at that one match against Benfica in the Champions League Round of 16, second leg after a 0-0 draw in the first one. I replayed that single game 30 times until I eventually won on the 31st attempt: no matter the advantage I could get (sometimes even 3 or 4 goals), Benfica would always come back with ridiculous goals from the edge of the box or off of clownish deflections. The only time I managed to win was when I scored two goals and then literally retained possession for 75 minutes, because I was absolutely fed up with the game and that single match and wanted to give an end to that farce. Funny enough, I've never played PES ever since, it's become a sort of a meme among my friends... Either way, it's not PES 2020 (which I do not own), I know, but I felt like sharing this story, I'm sure it's not that diffferent.

[@kalashnakov0477]

That exact thing happened to me playing against Benfica in the Rd of 32 Europa League in PES 2019. I played it 6 times and I would always take a 1-2 goal lead only for them to score 3-4 goals in the second half. I eventually left them with the victory didn't care to ruin my ML over that tie.

[@kobbylucio]

Scripting does exist, more so in master league. The main issue which makes scripting worse is the responsiveness of the ai which is appalling. running past the ball, making a run then stopping soon as you've played it, and goalkeepers which has always been an issue for PES.

[@dinofesti9969]

In my master league I played a game which ended with a ridiculous 1-1 draw, so I decided to re-play it (I know, I hate re-playing too, but I was really furious). Well, I ended up playing the match four times, getting three 1-1 and one 2-2 draws. I don't want to be too sensational here, but I really felt like the game was trying to tell me something about that match...

[@lynchio6719]

I don't think there's an issue with the game at all off line. However, online often feels like an old Mario Kart on the N64 with 'rubber banding' to allow the person behind to catch up. I've had it both for and against. I was having a really good game with someone in the euro qualifiers, around 38th minute, he scored and took the lead. After that, the game completely changed. All of a sudden, he couldn't string 3 passes together. On the other hand, if I picked up the ball in my own half, a single through ball and I'd basically be on for a 1 v 1 with his keeper. He didn't make any tactical changes after the goal, but all of a sudden the AI on his team were trash, running out of positions, whilst not being able to complete any passes as my AI were so strong all of a sudden. It's like his team was running in treacle. I ended up winning 3 - 1. In contrast I ended up playing PES 6 on a PS2 with my mate, and the games just felt free from this completely. Get your tactics wrong, and you'd be punished brutally! Reminded me of how good the games used to feel. I genuinely think that when they started to dumb down the skill gap for the FIFA players who started playing PES, they also introduced this rubber banding that stopped people from being completely decimated, as if they constantly get trashed they're more likely to quit the game. Again, one of my mates is like the worst PES player in the world, he's only plays this over FIFA as all of our friends group play it. I kid you not, he tried to get practice in online games to compete with us, and his online record was like 110 games with 7 wins and 12 draws... That meant he had 91 losses on PES 2014 I think it was. Anyway, he's really bad, but determined hahaha. In PES 2019, which also suffered from rubber banding his record was 42 games online, 7 wins, 15 draws, 20 losses. Might not look like a big difference, but he's gone from around an 85% losing record, to around a 46% losing record... Yet he plays the game way less these days, and he said he worse now then than. Also I used to thump people 11 - 0 if people didn't rage quit, these days maybe 1 a year like that. It's blatantly in there online.

[@facciobob]

Scripting is winning 2x1 derby as Man Utd against Liverpool in ML then the referee gives 5 extra minutes. At 93 I miss a clear goal. GK long pass the ball, Liverpool player crosses and Salah scores a impossible heading goal at exactly 95. De Gea could easily reach the ball as well as Maguire. Needles to say that I immediately turned off my PS4. That happened 10min before this comment. Thinking about dropping this game for good this time.

[@facciobob]

Just played again to test. Mane scored the third goal at 92min for Liverpool win 2x3. Referee gave exactly 2min extra time.

[@alpha_berchermuesli5975]

Master League player here: scripted or not, I don't need the game to artificially make "important" games in Master League more difficult. It is not about shots or passes, I play with manual passing and shooting and never feel not in control of either. However, in important games, not only is the enemy team playing noticeably stronger but my players fail to control the ball, don't aggro the ball, watch as enemy AI runs past them, stumble and the like. the enemy team playing better in important games is just plain stupid. Why is their team playing their best game while mine is playing their worst? scripting or not, this system just sucks and destroys the experience to me.

[@eamonryan8738]

Just played a game, Chapocoense v Flamengo. Two nil down and just saved a penalty. I completely dominate the the second half and score twice, the second coming after my forty eight thousand two hundred and seventy sixth chance. I’m delighted. Kick off. They pass the ball to their right back who punts a long speculative pass to the edge of my penalty box. My left back heads it to their man, who runs forward. My left back then tangles with my centre half, who has retrieved the ball. The centre half falls forward about six feet from impact, while the left back, on his feet, runs into the back of the dispossessed striker, who has now lobbed a Maradona past my right back, who has fallen over and they score. I create two other chances which see my player thump the inside of the post. Ball goes up in the air. My tall midfielder heads it ponderously up into the sky. Makes no further effort. I did not believe it was scripted, surely just bad luck. I replayed the game and completely dominated, creating a plethora of chances only to concede an OG from a cross after seventy six minutes. Am not sure if it’s me or scripting, but it stinks to high heaven.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Haha thanks mate, really enjoyed reading this comment. Well written! Cheers

[@ishaanbhandari1255]

Referee is paid by the other team

[@Tempest1888]

I play MyLeague and what I've noticed is the high percentage of goals I concede in the last 5 minutes of the first half.

[@nyeeezy]

Scripting exist and shouldnt even be in when people play online

[@VillaBravesGaming]

The thing that bugs me in both PES and FIFA is the awful player switching and player selection. It’s so frustrating when the ball is bobbing around and you have players close to the ball and every time you try to switch to the best player it becomes random and often selects the wrong, not best placed, player. Also, the number of times I’ve had the cpu score in 45+ minute at the end of the first half is not normal. Yes it happens in real life but not nearly every game! I agree with another comment which mentions momentum. I totally see a difference when the cpu changes it’s defense/attacking tactic so I have no problem with that, that is what it’s supposed to do. Some of the poor touches I think is all down to the poor DP8 update so my only real gripe is the player switching and selection as above.

[@closeasperil3714]

'Scripting' in my definition is a predefined outcome of a certain situation (as spoony said). Examples would be that the coding predefines that my defender will not be able to pick up the ball so that the opponent striker can pick it up and score or my pass being played to an opponent player no matter how I would adjust the body posture, pick my pass, etc.. Scripting of that kind does not exist in PES if you ask me. There is a lot of stuff that might appear that way though. Let me explain how I as a Software Engineer (not a game developer, though) would analyze what is going on. Each player in PES acts on their own behalf. Each has it's own AI. This AI gets certain inputs (position of the ball, of opponent players, team mates, tactical settings, ...) and acts based on these inputs and some characteristics of the player - offensive awareness, aggression, playing style, player cards, ...). Now, it would be great if this worked flawlessly, but it doesn't. We''ve all seen top defenders in great form not pick up the ball that passes their feet, top strikers not making a forward run when it was clearly the obvious thing to do ... you name it. One of the reasons for that is that the player AI is simply not as good as we would like it to be. It simply does not work correctly sometimes. That to me is the cause of most what frustrates people and what people call 'scripting'. There are issues on top of this. For example the player switching. Here, some kind of algorithm determines which player to switch to. Ideally this would be the player I want to switch to. Turns out that often it is not. This seems to be the case especially in situations where the ball is lose. When an opponent player is dribbling with the ball, I have very few issues with player switching. If the ball gets deflected and is one a more or less random path across the pitch, the player switching in my observation gets completely messed up. Now, I think this is actually an argument against the existence of scripting. The player switching gets messed up because it is not predetermined where the ball goes. Another player might get a foot/head to the ball an redirect it slightly - depending on the player's (user's) behavior. Exactly because the outcome is not predetermined, getting the player switching right is a tough job I imagine. Let's talk about ML, derby's, etc. To anyone who has played a fair amount of ML, it is absolutely obvious that some games (e.g. derbys) feel different. How is that? I would suggest that yet another input to the AI might be responsible for that. Maybe the team spirit is adjusted during these matches, changing the behavior of the AI, maybe some player stats are influenced and maybe (maybe) this even happens dynamically based on the time played, score, etc. And, well, maybe some of these things even happen during myclub matches, who knows. Nevertheless - that's not scripting. And if you do reload a ML game just before a derby match and play that same match 20 times, you will most likely not have the same result each game. To sum it up. There are various parameters that determine how the AI of a player behaves. What exactly these parameters are, only Konami can tell, but most likely they won't. There are some serious glitches and bugs (or whatever you wanna call it) with the AI as well as with the algorithm for player switching (don't even get me started about pass support). Some of these glitches can be very frustrating and seem like the game is plotting against you. And maybe it is by adjusting stats and AI inputs, but certainly not in a way that people refer to as 'scripting'.

[@SpoonyPizzas]

Excellent comment and agreed derbies do feel differently. I think they increase the difficulty a bit, how that's done...no idea. I imagine a boost to their form and obviously their attack/defence strategy plays a big part in that too

[@RussRants44]

Undeniably scripting. The best way to explain it is in the older Madden video games there was a setting called "keep scores close" and that is 100% what this "scripting" issue is. It's not hitting the post 2-3 times in a game or losing when you have 10 shots to the cpu's 2. It's high passing midfielders not completing a basic through ball to a wide open player on a run that misses by 15 yards. It's your CB out to lunch chasing a butterfly instead of locking to the landing spot of the ball like they do 99.99999% of the time, leading to a goal or 1 of 2 CPU chances. It's the AI going 3x speed when the AI knows you have sprint still held for your next dribble and covering 10 feet of open space like a cheetah to stop a quick pass to your rushing team that's on a 3 on 2. It's every time the stubbed toe animation happens, the CPU getting that loose ball as you player that's closer stutter steps or just flat out falls back to defense when the backup is there and he is closer to the loose ball. It's all of those things. And the worse part, is it can be liverpool or it can be middlesborough and it doesn't matter who you are. I played years of FIFA and some games you'd win by 4 but some games you'd lose by 3. I bet I have over 1,000 offline ML games played on PES 2020(can't check my stats bc I've reset so many times trying to kill this SCRIPTING ISSUE) and I've never lost by more than 2. I bet my losses by more than 1 are less than 5% of my losses. I've tried every GPM that Holland has made and honestly the only GPM that has drastically affected the game was the IPM you played w/ from the original mod video for pes 2020. It was incredible. Shots missed by 20 yards and there were fouls called, OH MY GOODNESS, IT WAS INCREDIBLE...and then they disappeared. I play w/ Man U, Aston Villa, and sometimes I change the teams in the league and play w/ Bundesliga or La Liga teams but IT DOESN'T MATTER. It's the same game every time. IDK if scripting is the proper word but that keep scores close option in older madden games is what the issue is and it's game breaking for me. It doesn't matter if I'm passing w/ Modric, Bruno, Grealish, Ward-Prowse or some EFL scrub, it'll miss by 15 yards if I have a legit advantage of a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2. I realize team spirit has a lot to do with it but I've been at a 96 w/ Man U having Pogba captain and it's the same groundhogs day game every time I play. I don't want to win by 3-5 every game and I do expect to get smoked by Liverpool when I'm Aston Villa but just have them beat me w/ better play, not me missing the open net or not being able to complete a 10 yard pass to an open man...That's all I'm saying. There's no denying that guy that's put in this much time on the game wins 1-0, draws 1-1 or by the grace of the soccer gods gets a 93rd min goal to win 2-0. I have never had those 3-1, 4-2, 3-2 games and I've played more games on PES2020 than I'd like to admit. I watch all of your videos(haven't watched any of your ML since the start of your Roma season) and you usually win by one goal. That's not some crazy coincidence... Super long post but I just played 3 games w/ AV on top player and drew 1-1, won 1-1 and lost 0-1 and the loss was in 93rd minute on two passes from goalie to striker for a awful loss on Watford's only shot of the game. I usually play on SS and those are my exact scores from that setting as well. Keep up the awesome work Spoony and I love how much love you have for this game.

[@PESDNAShales]

Good vid 👍. As an offline player, I have had no problem with the “script” in Master League in 2020. I play on superstar and I recently played match in my series (which I might highlight at some point) which had good examples of no script. I conceded a chance right at half time where the Com had a 1v1 with my keeper, all the time in the world and put it wide. I had basically already put the pad down. I was actually shocked to see it go wide. I wouldn’t have even have been bothered to see it go in as it was a 1v1. Then same match, at the 93rd min, the Com hit a shot over which was a very scoreable chance. I’ve played another games where I’ve been hanging on for dear life but managed to defend well. I have also experimented with playing the same ML fixture over and over and the game often feels different. One game I get murdered and other games I can win quite comfortably. We don’t know the form of the Com players. I think that’s the key. However, I do find I have games where the player switching seems like it’s intentionally trying to wind me up. And games where the AI tends to identify the wrong player I’m trying to pass to. I have no idea is that’s deliberately put into the game or if it’s me going crazy. I have no problem with some scripting in Offline modes if I’m honest. This goes back to playing games like Street Fighter 2 and with what happens when you get M.Bison down to 1 millimetres worth of health. He becomes a beast. I quite enjoy the moments in PES when you have your backs to wall, as long as you CAN prevent the goals by defending how you need to and also riding some luck.

[@al98118]

What bothers me the most is the fact that the game logic that pes establishes (based on stats, attributes, player's abilities-trades and the laws of physics) will not apply the same way for both your team and the ai... you feel as if you are not competing in equal conditions. Basically, if you feel as if the game provides different outcomes to the same/similar situations depending on who's the one on the ball regardless of player's attributes at times. Obviously, this game simulates football...where some times there are exemptions to the rules of probabilities, again based on stats being easier to score with a sticker than with a central defender with poor finishing skills...nevertheless, them exemptions always seem to go the ai's way rather than yours way too often. I've seen the opposition's right back scoring a screamer from outside the box with his weak foot and my 1.92m target man with 93 heading accuracy and heading trade miss an open goal shot from a cross with no goalkeeper on goal. That lack of balance in how the logic is applied by the game seems rather unfair, as said logic will be very permissive with the ai for instance: the quick 180 turn lofted pass where the ai player is out of balance yet, manages to magically land the pass to a far teammate that no human being would have spotted. Whereas you will be punished for similar actions (which is reasonable and makes sense...but is not fair that the cpu can get away with the same actions) What's worse is when your players start missing easy passes on the middle of the pitch for no reason whatsoever, regardless of them having great passing skills and lots of time and space, those irregularities ruined the game for me.

[@Redrexgames]

(Offline player here) the only things that seem to frustrate me are the the free-kick/collision system and offsides not being applied how they would in RL - aside from that, I really enjoy this game!

[@franco8flyline]

PLaying the game in 2023 - 4 years after it came out, and omg the scripting is still so annoying. Especially in cup finals/knock out games. No matter what you do, how many defenders you have, how good the defenders are, the moment the AI set their attack status to high, your defenders will stop defending and let the AI score. I call bull shit on all Konami scripting and their schenanigans !

[@jackkelso6998]

I have it on Master League, I usually win every game with 1-0, after a while I had an home match against Fiorentina. I lost with 0-2 but it was very suspicious it wasn't like other losses. So I decided to replay the match, but again after 3 times I just can't seem to win, they always score in the first 15 min and my strikers can't finish right.

[@Horpetii]

Yes but probably if you replay it enough you can figure a strategy against it which might work if "you are lucky" lol. I did the same against Chelsea derby match on Superstar because it was ridiculous (then I checked Chelsea players and with 87-88 OVR against my 75-77 I was ridiculous lol) - and somehow after 5 matches I could win to 3-1. Well most of the times you are playing "by the script" and like in a normal life you accept bad days, etc. That makes the game more realistic and fun. If you chase the always win as obviously you are better than the AI (and you have decent enough team) it can be frustrated. But if you want to develop your skills replaying these difficult matches can help improve it too. I am rather a skill heavy mentality person so I rather try to find the way to win than accept an unfair loss. Unless I am really deserved by "bad play" as I do a serious mistake etc. I usually evaluate myself during the game and when I deserve I swallow the pill. :D When I am ultimately shocked by the script I rather try it again (but usually I say: ok have it lol). Which messes up the realism factor but that is personal preference. I am rather on tilt very much after that kind of match if I let it be.

[@tazman91]

FIFA is 100% scripted online and offline but I don't think PES is offline. But the thing with PES is you have AI that is shocking at times and seems like it's working against you. And yes online is crazy because some people just exploit every bug like little rats and there are elements of scripting

[@ShikaIE]

I agree on comments on "momentum". I dont think there's scripting at all, but definitely such things as momentum affecting players. I play on full manual, the things become apparent. Sometimes full bar passing from my CB end up just few metre slow passing to give chance for opponent striker to intercept. I know that in real life players do make mistake. But it's just frustrating to play game when on manual but players do not really do as what i intended to do and what manual is all about. I think on manual, messing with accuracy os accetable especially on cases where the player position and direction I'm passing is sort of impossible, but definitely no on purposedly making my player doing stupid mistake to make it "challenging". Playing on manual is challenging enough!

[@mustafaalany8630]

It's not about what you're mentioning, it's about Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment (DFA). SUDDENLY, your players don't run as usual, don't move or even pass as usual, giving your opponents a better chance of winning the game than you even if you are way better than them.

[@mustafaalany8630]

I'm talking about online modes. Offline is something else

[@cristivoinea6241]

hi mate, It's funny cuz i had a conversation on a PES forum where some great guys try to change the gameplay in order to fix this "scripting" issues. I don't reffer at scripting as something that is predetermined to happen or you have 8 on target shots and the opponent only 1 and the game ends 1-1. Like, I had a game, lost it, shut down the game, played it again and won. But, what happened next? I lost the next game with a really weak opponent. So, I think in ML the "scripting" refers to keeping the table as it's supposed to be. Like, a regular guy who kind of struggles on Top Player difficulty, cannot win the championship with Man.Utd or AC Milan (that's me!) in the first season. He can do it with Juventus, Barcelona or Bayern. And, his bad team chemistry really affect the players. Like you said, they are sluggish, slow, their passes are intercepted really easily. But, maybe after one season when the chemistry is better (90-95), you can see some improvements. The passing is better, the momentum is good and the opponents are not the pushy as they were when your chemistry sucked. And this is what scripting does! When you have a bad chemistry, your opponents are better. And i think this is something Konami should reconsider. I mean, it is not that hard. Let's have an example! AC Milan (65 chemistry) first season Lucas Paqueta - 81 overall. Konami should simply point to us that Paqueta is in fact a 73 overall with a 65 chemistry. If the chemistry goes up, also his overall attributes go up. And nobody would ever talk about sluggish and they would try to upgrade their chemistry. I totally agree that for a new teams with new players is harder to play together, but Konami should do it differently, because it simply gives us the impression that you cannot change the result of the game. When my Dybala is a mediocre player at AC Milan it doesnt feel good... Let him be a top player or at least tell me that his attributes will go down because of the bad chemistry. To conclude, in order to achieve the results of bad chemistry, Konami buff my players and nerfs the opponents until i have a good chemistry and a good team. After that, i can win. :)