Is Pro Ultrarunning Entering A New Era? (David Roche Interview)

[@BrockRunsFar]

I’m a simple man. I see David Roche, I click.

[@jennylievois]

I loved this conversation. I haven't been on the edge of my seat for a whole interview like this ever. So stoked for the future of ultrarunning.

[@runsingletrack]

This is the type of comment that makes my day..glad you shared the same excitement we did..we (or at least I, Finn, lol) live for these types of conversations

[@winter46ercmart]

Fantastic interview, Finn. Listened during a track workout this morning. David is the man. His mix of humility and confidence is incredibly inspiring.

[@dmcbride42]

One of the top episodes of the year. Trail and career advice overlapping perfectly. Love the “scared money don’t make no money” reference!

[@agamemnonroumeliotis5511]

Great, honest, kind, open conversation between two human beings that I respect the most!! Thank you Finn & David!!! Love!!!🤟

[@runsingletrack]

Our pleasure! Thanks for tuning in

[@ChrisSherwood-gj3sw]

Another super interesting pod. David is a fantastic human who is exactly what the sport needs. Love the insight into his running and training, but also the last bit about where sponsorship is going and should go. Also, absolutely agree, what singletrack and freetrail and others have done, has been a huge driving force for all of us and the sport

[@stevemanning9222]

So many valuable insights into the trail arena in one podcast. Thank you so much.

[@PatrickDelorenzi]

The most interesting pod I’ve listened to in a long long time 👏👏

[@connorgray2896]

Would like to see David at utmb! He’s clearly a machine! His podcast with his wife is very useful!

[@andyranaway]

very much admire and appreciate David wanting everyone to be at their best in the spirit of true competition. that is what will progress the sport ultimately.

[@mefistobartek]

I would never thought when I first heard SWAP podcast 2 years ago that soon David would be my role model. I thought that they share good reaserch and running advice but it just wasn’t for me, not my world view, not my style and damn was I wrong about that. You and Megan changed my running life and so life in general. Thank You! 🦖🦖🦖

[@nikolamiljkovic6069]

David has such an amazing energy. I am nit surprised with all the success. beautiful

[@Sanko1960]

David mentions adversarial relationships, as long as these do not become vitriolic and hateful, okay, but part of the sport's greatness is the co-existence of competition and mutual respect and even friendship among competitors. I hope there will always be room in professional trail running for athletes of all types of personality to make a living - not just the good story tellers and good salespeople. Thank you for this thought-provoking and interesting conversation.

[@bathable129]

Lfg we love David ❤️

[@justinofboulder]

Thanks for the interview! First time hearing David. I ran Leadville 20 years ago (17th place in a time that probably would have been 100th these days). I am fascinated by all the talent and advances now and very excited to see where it leads!

[@JeffColt_1ifbyfoot2ifbyski]

Could it be we entered an era in the last two years (with Courtneys CR at WSER, other ladies blowing past the old CR at WSER, new CR at UTMB for women, 5 men running under 20 hours at UTMB) and that David is contributing to the certainty of that era defining change in sports nutrition? I am fully on the David Roche bandwagon and his last two races, but the CR at Leadville has been long overdo (read this as, it's needed runners of David's caliber to take a swing and hasn't gotten that attention in the same way that Black Canyon, WSER, UTMB, HR etc...)

[@nates9472]

This was great! Thanks to both of you!

[@shanedoyle8933]

The lineup for Western States next year could be insane. Who is going to make Unbreakable 2?

[@seanmac80]

Ununbreakable?

[@CallMeShasta]

​@@seanmac80Reunbreakable: The Ununbreakening

[@DanKushlan]

@@seanmac80 kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKqUkqZseLmMjqs - doc about the WSER from 2010 (?) with Krupicka, Roes, Jornet, and Koerner.

[@svenja5596]

Amazing interview! Thoroughly enjoyed it & can't wait for Western States next year.

[@delayewm]

I loved the discussion of Rich Roll's interview style and the use of dead space. It sounds very similar to Werner Herzog, with one significant difference. Rich Roll makes people comfortable while Herzog actively makes people uncomfortable.

[@duhai1836]

Arf-arf Yeah, uh, yeah (Grr), yeah, uh (Grr) ... Roche gon' give it to ya (What?) F*ck waitin' for you to get it on your own, Roche gon' deliver to ya (Uh)

[@CalebEsmay]

Fuck what you’ve heard, it’s what you hearin’

[@uloutdoors]

Coach Roach 👊

[@fredericguyard334]

Great interview and fascinating approach to science in trail ! I guess the « man of stone » from the French social network guy comes from the name David Roche. « Roche » means « rock, stone » in French…that might be the reason 😂

[@zackmitarotonda]

Tussey mentioned ‼️

[@dickensrivers9862]

use of phrase "non-linear fashion" so many times that i'd like to hear triage of variables implicated, to learn precise definition of phrase in a few observations

[@EnoughBull]

Talking about negative splitting ultras needs to make the difference between TIMED races like the 24H and trail ultras with a set distance. These are two completely different sports with different variables.

[@jtcollins2112]

Nice !!

[@marlinweekley51]

“When you get a furnace bill all your principles go out the window “ 😂😂😂 even though said jokingly how true how true for many 😆

[@CodyShorter]

I'm making a documentary on David's race - do you mind if I use some clips from this interview (and the pre-race interview)? I'll be sure to credit your content.

[@runsingletrack]

Please do! Messaged you on IG if you need the base file

[@CodyShorter]

@@runsingletrack legend!

[@rileymartin22]

Why was David doubted going into Javelina? No clue.

[@connorgray2896]

Regarding running economy, is that really going to be important at utmb or hard rock?

[@Vo2maxProductions]

it's literally the most important thing....but it has to be what I call "Variable Running Economy". A study on UTMB cited "velocity at Vo2max" as being the most important in terms of relating to times and performances of finishers on that course so people just focused on the "Vo2max" part, but in reality "velocity at Vo2max" (coined by Jack Daniels I believe) takes into account Running Economy also. In a mountain race like UTMB or Hardrock where a lot of powerhiking is involved you could have specific Running Economy at a 25% uphill grade using poles....likewise running down a technical trail you have a specific Running Economy in that moment maybe at 7-min mile pace. To be efficient at both you have what I call "Variable Running Economy" because you can envision taking samples at each moment in the race and if you are still more efficient on average than your competitors you are probably winning (in terms of energy demands, muscular fatigue, lactate values etc). Kilian might not have the very best Running Economy on a flat road at marathon pace (5-min/mile), but it is still probably pretty good (relative to most ultra and mountain runners) and he's at monster at steep powerhiking and running technical downhills. He has the "Variable Running Economy" to win WS100 and UTMB and Hardrock....as does Courtney....

[@connorgray2896]

@ thanks so much for such an elaborate response mate! I have enjoyed your channel for years! How do you think Kilian gets on next year at western states 100? He hasn’t did it since 2011. Thanks again.

[@Vo2maxProductions]

@@connorgray2896 Hey thanks! Is he doing it for sure? Honestly compared to the mountain stuff (often very technical alpinism) that Kilian mainly trains for and has a passion for, the WS100 is probably more like a "road race" to him. I'd guess his specific Running Economy isn't as good on average on that course and pace range compared to a course like Hardrock or UTMB. Kilian also historitcally doesn't do as well relative to his compettion in super hot conditions (which WS100 usually has!). It's also not really a "high altitude race" (save for the first 20-miles or so) and generally he likes higher elevations. I'd say it's more of a "road runners race" so guys like Jim who come from a 2:15 marathon and 13:50 for 5km background are still favored. Kilian still put down a 29:50s for 10km on the road (sans super shoe shoes) on a whim a few years ago so there's that though!

[@andrewludlow7743]

David is a beast and I love listening to him on these podcasts. Also congrats on your recent successes in racing. But as an Ex. Phys. scientist I take offense - How can David state the Ex. Phys field as a whole only gets 3% of the science right and misses 97% of the issues in real athletes. But then state that he "sciences" the shit out of his training and therefore his performances? Seems contradictory to me.

[@rileymartin22]

Couldn’t agree with you more David, if it wasn’t for freetrail and singletrack I’d be wayyyyyyyy more in the dark about ultra trail and have far less ability to scratch my interest in the sport.

[@Worry888]

How much are Jim and Courtney on? over 500k? over a mill?

[@Loco5919]

For the algo 🫡

[@pates4442]

Did he really say he will have 13:XX 5k fitness?

[@dastolh]

Overall i think Kilian is better than Jim. But, i think Jim is better than Kilian at the Western States.

[@connorgray2896]

Yeah Kilian has overall more versatility! 28:48 VK for example but also wins utmb and hard rock! Jim would beat him on flatter ultras though!

[@pates4442]

Look at his last project. Alpine connections. He made history. That is worth more than any of these races! No chance that any of the other so called "goat"s in ultrarunning could achieve something like this. Sorry any comparison of these guys with kilian is hilarious.

[@connorgray2896]

@ yea and alpine connections infused a lot of technical mountaineering skills. In saying that, how does western states play out next year with Kilian? He has said this race is too flat and doesn’t play to his strengths etc!

[@pates4442]

@@connorgray2896 Agree.

[@legsheartsminds9450]

I'd say Killian is totally aware of DR and is now interested to race at WS because of DR's rise. This is a totally new challenge for KJ. He will have nothing but respect for DR & MR's coaching (AO is sponsored by NNormal and coached by the Roaches). So the question that now stands, is KJ better than both JW and DR at WS? Bring it on....If only one of the Kenyans was ready to step up to the 100 mile mark.