Is Rishi Sunak a Populist? | Alastair Campbell meets Beth Rigby (Part 2)

The Rest is Politics star and political strategist joins us to confront policies that serve the interests of a privileged few, and answer the question so many of us want answered: ‘But what can I do?’
Our politics is a mess. We have leaders who can’t or shouldn’t be allowed to lead. We endure governments that lie and seek to undermine our democratic values. It’s no surprise that so many of us feel frustrated. But what can we, as individuals, actually do about it?
It’s a question regularly posed to Alastair Campbell, not least in reaction to The Rest is Politics, the chart-topping podcast he presents with former Tory Cabinet minister Rory Stewart. His answer, typically, is forthright and impassioned. We cannot afford to stand on the sidelines. If we think things need to change, then we need to change them, and that means getting involved.
Live on stage in London, he will teach us how we can develop our skills of advocacy and persuasion. Drawing on his long experience, he will offer practical tips for developing confidence, coping with setbacks, and leading a team: in short, a masterclass in becoming a political player. It’s an unmissable event for anyone who wants to make a difference.
Alastair Campbell was official spokesman and director of communications and strategy in Tony Blair’s government from 1994 to 2003. He continued to act as an advisor to the Labour Party during subsequent election campaigns. A consultant writer, strategist and broadcaster, he is still engaged in politics in Britain and overseas. He is also a leading advocate in the field of mental health, and co-presenter of the UK’s most popular podcast of 2022, The Rest Is Politics. Campbell’s first book, The Blair Years, was a number one Sunday Times bestseller. He has since published eight volumes of diaries, a book on the Northern Ireland peace process, four novels, two memoirs on living with depression, including the bestseller Living Better, and Winners, which also went straight to Number One in the Sunday Times charts.
Beth Rigby has worked as a political journalist for over a decade, covering four general elections, the Scottish independence and EU referendums, all the twists and turns of Brexit, the Covid pandemic and the recent run of Conservative prime ministers. Beth also hosts a flagship interview show for Sky News, interviewing big names from all walks of life, from leading politicians such as Hillary Clinton, Rishi Sunak and Keir Starmer to prominent figures in our national life from actor Emma Thompson to Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson. She also hosts a weekly podcast, Beth Rigby Interviews. Before joining Sky, Beth worked as a newspaper journalist for nearly two decades at The Times and Financial Times, where she held a variety of positions including media editor, deputy political editor and consumer industries editor.

[@robertdarby6553]

Campbell has said that in his day no one would have dared have a party inside No 10, irrespective of lockdown, because it is not professional. I have been waiting for someone to say this. The workplace is for work. Parties are held somewhere else. Wine-time Fridays - a total disgrace.

[@nudgenudgewinkwink3212]

If you believe that then you will that there are "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq 🇮🇶.

[@yetigriff]

Drinking and working crossovers ended everywhere else but no 10 before blair bombed iraq

[@mwnciboo]

So why were Brit-pop bands in Number 10 in 1990's- Having champagne etc with Tony Blair? Alistair lies as much as Boris.

[@robertdarby6553]

@@mwnciboo If you cannot see the difference between the two types of events I will not try to explain it to you.

[@clivet3252]

Well it's not irrespective of lockdown because the pubs were shut and you couldn't have any social gatherings. Therefore it made sense to have a few drinks and unwind with people you're allowed to meet with in a place you're allowed to meet. That's what everyone ignores. It's a laugh him talking about being professional with his temper.

[@dogglebird4430]

Campbell is lying through his teeth when he says: "at the referendum, it was a red line with both Remain and Leave that we're not leaving the Single Market or customs union". David Cameron couldn't have been clearer; he reminded us, on the Marr Show (Politico, 12th June 2016), that (his words) "the Leave campaign has made it clear that in order to restrict immigration and strike trade deals with countries outside the EU, Britain would have to leave the single market...What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.”

[@davidnorton7437]

Thankyou Mr Campbell for your contribution to the appalling condition of Britain. No doubt you can re-locate when the brown stuff hits the fan.

[@piccalillipit9211]

*IN 1995 MY SALARY WAS £27K - IN 2005 IT WAS £65K* that's what a Labor Government did to the UK That same job now pays about £52k - thats what a Tory Govt has done for the UK

[@davidpeacock4132]

1997 to 2010 was the only period in my working life when things were getting better for ordinary people.

[@malfy8369]

Blair and Brown facilitated social mobility and I will be forever grateful for the opportunities I had. The most hopeful time of my life. The Tories have put us back to survival and not thriving .

[@lestrem11]

Perhaps you are not very good at it?

[@abazely2743]

Didn't Labour's outgoing Chancellor in 2010 leave a note saying there was nothing in the coffers.Didn't Brown flog the family jewels at a knock down price.Blair opened the flood gates to cheaper labour to 'rub the right's nose in diversity',giving substance to the Brexit movement.Looks like a "not Sunak" GE vote next.Good luck with that.

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@malfy8369 "The most hopeful time of my life" YES - certainly for me and the people I knew, we had the feeling that tomorrow would be better than today. Im sure some people fell through the cracks - but they were not actually persecuted as now. I live in Bulgaria now, but the state of the UK depresses me even here.

[@charlesmarsh9608]

Spend the publics money on the public.

[@davetaylor5677]

First question, “Whiy is Rishi Sunak in politics?” Non of these people have any interest in other people! Their only interest, this pathetic being included is themselves.

[@gerryburntwood9617]

Oh much like the Keir he want to be an PM at any cost even selling the Labour Party to Israel, or pandering to racist !

[@brubeker12]

I often wonder that myself. He is a bright boy made money in the financial sector is married to a wealthy lady, beats me why he wants to be within a mil,ion miles of politics especially with the current bunch of vipers in the Tory party ,

[@timelwell7002]

Alistair Campbell speaks a lot of sense. He is right about Starmer not having caught up with current public mood regarding Brexit. IMO Starmer should not be using such emphatic phrases as *'Under a Labour government we will NEVER seek for the UK to rejoin the EU'* and *'Freedom of Movement is in the past, we have to move on'* are just going to bite him in the backside. And not only him, because the EU perceive that both major political parties are vehemently opposed to the EU, therefore Starmer is shooting not only himself but the nation in both feet.

[@CC-hx5fz]

You're forgetting that a third of eligible voters don't vote in general elections. Think about it. That's a third of the adult population that aren't politically represented. Nobody knows what they think because nobody's bothered to find out. That's is the demographic that most likely swung the Brexit vote. Everyone who voted Brexit wanted their vote counted. Plenty of Remain voters are pro-democracy and would not want the UK to repeat the referendum. The weakness of our democracy is the root of the political instability of the UK, over many decades. It's not a good idea to poke that particular hornets nest.

[@timelwell7002]

@@CC-hx5fz Notwithstanding the issue of large numbers of those eligible to vote not choosing so to do, one of the biggest problems we have is our archaic electoral system - FPTP. The UK shares this frankly dreadful electoral system with only one other European country - Belarus. We are in *desperate* need of Electoral Reform, preferrably PR with STV.

[@CC-hx5fz]

@@timelwell7002 The electoral system isn't just archaic. It's downright insulting. I feel robbed of my adulthood. TBH, Proportional Representation feels as important to me as Votes for Women were to my Grandmother. I haven't researched the French electoral system but I'd guess they have a democracy problem, too, judging by the unrest on their streets. We've also lost a lot of the public spaces for political discussion without a lot of middle-class tone policing. The lack of understanding of politics as reasoned discussion goes hand in hand with polarised politics. I agree that people are desperate for change. I also think people are going to get increasingly angry with politicians who are obstructive.

[@timelwell7002]

@@CC-hx5fz I concur with all of the points you've made. Speaking to the lack of awareness of either political or economic matters among a substantial majority of the UK population, there are 2 main reasons for this, namely: *1) The basic principles of Economics and Politics are not taught in Secondary Schools.* They could be, and should be - for example as part of the PSE/PHSE curriculum. In Nordic countries the basics of politics and economics are taught, giving rise to fa more politically aware populations. *2) The billionaire owned and controlled press and media make no effort whatever to educate the population.* Instead we have right-wing propaganda masquerading as news. Even the BBC have key figures (Chairman, Director General, etc) appointed not by Parliament but by the Prime Minister. Thus, even news and current affairs are covered in such a way as to avoid detailed explanations. Moreover, I'm sure you and I could give numerous examples of where Government Ministers have been interviewed - say over Brexit - and have not been challenged on the downright lies told to the public. A more educated population would not hve embraced Thatcher. They would have recognised the paradigm shift from a Mixed Economy to Neoliberalism as a very bad thing, and we'd still have a Mixed Economy to this day - just as Norway and Finland have. Moreover, had the UK population been educated in the way that the Norwegian or Finnish school children have been, I doubt the right wing of the Tory Party could have engineered Brexit and conned a nation into acting against its' own interests. And even had Brexiteers been able to do so, a more educated population would have voted 'Remain.'

[@CC-hx5fz]

@@timelwell7002 A full education doesn't simply inform the electorate about their voting choices. Education is about understanding and owning political power. The factory education that children receive now teaches children to choose the right ideas that are presented to them by their "betters". That's not democracy. I went to a Grammar School. We had European Studies lessons dedicated to discussion of the EEC, the Common Agricultural Policy etc. We also had a weekly lesson called Living in Society which was a bit of a dumping ground for whatever was considered suitable for us to learn about Sex Ed, but we would also discuss what was in the local and national newspapers. We had lessons on how to develop our own opinions by reading a variety of newspapers. Firstly, we weren't taught any right or wrong think on any of the issues discussed, though there would have been an understanding that children from religious backgrounds weren't permitted to have their own opinions on issues like capital punishment or family planning. Secondly, these discussions were no different from the kinds of discussions going on in the political clubs at the time. So, there wasn't any sense that "real politics" went over ordinary voter's heads. In fact there was a very strong sense that the values of a society would be created through a process of discussion and debate. Being part of that debate was a right of passage into adulthood. That's what we've lost, and it happened many years before the Brexit Referendum. I don't agree that a more educated population would have rejected Thatcherism, or Brexit. The most politically influential voters are the 30+% who don't vote or engage with mainstream politics. This is the group that swings elections. Brexit was decided by voters who'd never voted before and weren't organised around any particular political ideas. That's not an education problem. It's a sign of a weak democracy.

[@Djordj69]

wouldn't trust this guy as far as i could throw him!

[@timcomley5948]

Nor me

[@bipolarminddroppings]

14:00 Im a southerner who lives in the north. I earn less money here than down south, but here Im middle-class, back home I could barely keep a roof over my head.

[@qeitkas594]

Alistair explained perfectly well why Keir Starmer is not advocating rejoin. It is not realistic at all because the UK is not sitting in the driver seat. The EU doesn't want the UK back while the disentanglement is ongoing. Bringing back Brexit will only result into 1 conclusion: "You see Remoaners, they do not want us anymore so get over it". Starmer knows this, Alistair knows this and basically all politicians know this so why putting everybody through this frustration of trying to get something that is out of reach.

[@gerryburntwood9617]

You buy into anything the far right msms tells you lack any viable grey cells, Campbell is part of the red Tories and don’t forget this!

[@thestrongestman1008]

You're either a Corbyn fanboy or a far Righter. Your opinion doesn't count. Can't wait for Labour to win so we dont have to deal with the delusions and lies of people like you.

[@robinj6137]

​@@gerryburntwood9617 word salad that doesn't map on reality

[@gerryburntwood9617]

@@robinj6137 oh dear a triggered nobody thinking you are intelligent! You are funny!

[@chriscooper761]

John Major said on the Andrew Marr show in 2015 " I will forgive no one who does not accept the Sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken, whether it is by 1% or 20%

[@dexstewart2450]

Paddy Ashdown, in response to Jo Swinson saying that the LD's would revoke Article 50....in 2019. She's gone, he's dead.

[@peteratkin3788]

So now?

[@col.hertford9855]

Yes, but he’s had a thing to two to say about the abject lies and falsehoods told during the referendum. So I’ll take that quote under advisement.

[@jeffsmith3392]

It was Paddy Ashdown

[@jeffsmith3392]

NO REJOIN EVER! and I live in Middlesbrough, so be warned Labour. Be warned.

[@stephengrice1678]

Sunak is a weak ideas man. All you hear is his same answer to every question.

[@brubeker12]

We need Liz Truss back she was good at answering questions 😆

[@brubeker12]

Pretty decent guy compared to the 2 who went before him . Having to put up with the right of his party run a country think and make decisions on a global scale Ukraine China etc. Am not a Conservative but thank god these people in the Tory party who cant see the wood from the trees who put Johnson in power and even worse Truss into the job I breathed a sigh of relief when he was appointed. Now all the talk is of who takes over from him will Johnson return,who is the most anti woke Tory MP who might succeed him. This is complete nuts carry on like this the UK wont by 5th largest economy ,or is it 6 ? but will be 15th.

[@passiveaggressive6175]

I love Beth Rigby

[@spms3018]

LOCKDOWN BREAKING BETH RIGBY MEETS WAR LIAR ALISTAIR CAMPBELL TO PREACH

[@simonbarnaby8042]

Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone

[@mbshaw1]

While we are considering what people are, what is Alistair Campbell if not a tool to exploit bias for whoever pays him.

[@clivet3252]

he's a tool alright

[@tommygunhunter]

Externalities Beth!

[@christontrigwell5240]

I love alsatar Campbell he should be advising kier starmer that's could be the only way Labour would win the next election

[@nicolaclark4234]

Alistair Campbell has no shame....

[@passiveaggressive6175]

Tories are way away worse

[@sbwords]

He’s an intelligent bloke, and deep down knows he’s guilty of facilitating the death of thousands of innocent kids. I suspect he keeps himself busy by pontificating and speaking to avoid those quiet moments when he must remember he has blood on his hands. Like Sisyphus, Campbell must keep pushing that rock uphill because the boulder will roll back and over him if he stops. He’s a tragic figure of his own making.

[@damianpritchard1456]

Alastair you are a true hero. it will take at least 50 yrs to undo the damage this Tory party has inflicted on us, and the only if we rejoin the EU. ask Gordon to come back, we need him to save the economy.

[@lestrem11]

Very funny. Please give up what you are doing and start ‘stand up comedy’.

[@anthonyferris8912]

And a lot more time to undo the damage of going to war on dodgy dossiers.

[@spms3018]

HERO? HE LEID ABOUT WMDS

[@sbwords]

Campbell laid the foundations of everything we are experiencing now. He led the charge in eroding public trust in politics by his spin and along the way he facilitated the killing of thousands of innocent Iraqi kids. The man is a disgrace - he has blood on his hands.

[@janewilkin1984]

Like his mate Tony Blair

[@avriljack1893]

"a man's a man fir awe that'.

[@geoffsimms3013]

Ask about Dr David Kelly and his involvement in that.

[@stephen25uk]

I congratulate Sky on having two of the best political journalists on tv, Beth Rigby and Sophy Ridge.

[@mwnciboo]

5:20 - I'm proud of the fact no civil Servant.... *Lets stop you there* - Dr David Kelly was Senior Civil Servant in the MOD... What happened to him Alistair???

[@diligentmindz]

The English reputation for lying wasn’t a problem when they were inside the EU as all calculations baked in the possible consequences. Now they are outside the EU and other leaders have the ability to shrug and refuse to play.

[@andrewrobinson2565]

The best way to "Make Brexit Work" is to reverse it whenever that becomes possible. 😮

[@wolfen210959]

That is going to take decades, and is not up to the Labour party or it's supporters to decide when the time is right, only the brexiteers and the tory party can decide if the UK are ever ready to attempt to rejoin, because the EU will not countenance negotiating with a party that does not represent the vast majority of the UK population.

[@andrewrobinson2565]

@@wolfen210959 +1 I think you're right. Fortunately I applied for French citizenship 10 days before the referendum and became French in February 2018, so completely unaffected by the whole farce on Prison Island 🏝️🇬🇧 .

[@evokev4161]

Well look who crawled out of the bottle

[@hughcaskey9542]

Ah brain of Britain Campbell a know all but it’s flute all

[@vinay7397]

I prefer Alastair Campbell to Kier Starmer, something really dodge about Starmer he is obsessed with being "Strong" which in practice means destroying the political career of Diane Abbott, and other traditional left-wing politicians. "He man" Starmer has power issues he is "strong" 😁

[@MiningForPies]

Abbott is a racist idiot though. She ended her own career.

[@wolfen210959]

Dianne Abbott is and always has been a divisive figure, to some she is a heroine, to others such as myself she makes me cringe every time she opens her mouth, and is everything that is wrong with the extreme left wing labour party.

[@hangforh6320]

alastair... back to the question,, is blair a war criminal? yes or no?

[@passiveaggressive6175]

Unfortunately, no one cares. Literally polls at 0%. No need for Labour to address this

[@wolfen210959]

The enquiry said no.

[@jasonkingshott2971]

Oh dear, all from Blair's Liar-in-Chief.

[@RR-sp3ey]

There is no chance Labour will win back Scotland.

[@wolfen210959]

You're probably right, they'll probably vote Tory in the next election, seeing as the SNP is in serious decline now.

[@CathleenHarty-jq6zs]

SIMPLY**NO CLASS PARTY GATE❗SHAME**

[@nordicsky]

Brexit, simple things first. Get back free roaming on mobile phones. Even the most virulent of brexiteers would agree with this. Next sort out their holiday queue problems by cooperating on computerised borders. Sell this as a British victory. Now continue getting rid of one brexit problem after another, claiming each one as a brexit victory.

[@nudgenudgewinkwink3212]

"Data roaming" I would definitely change my vote now.

[@philrothwell6858]

Keep mentioning the book !!!

[@nudgenudgewinkwink3212]

Why do people still listen to this berk.

[@wolfen210959]

Because, working for Labour as Director of Communications and as an Election strategist, he oversaw two landslide victories, therefore his experience and opinion is of great interest to anyone interested in politics, he has walked the walk, and talked the talk, unlike the vast majority of political analysts these days.

[@UTubeSL]

Great discussion!

[@michaels8638]

The Brexit deal could never work without Northern Ireland having a hard border, without true sovereignty in our waters for fishing and immigration the Brexit image offered just wasn’t possible. The real options are a Norway’ or redo Brexit with true isolation from the EU. Isolation wouldn’t work with a FIAT based currency, change to an Energy based currency it will grow green energy / modular nuclear reactors and offer us true value to the £ and not tied to the market via BoE policy/ Political forecasts. The old adage, if you cannot be best, or biggest, then be first. With a surplus clean energy we can export not just energy but the technology that creates the energy we can get back to growth in our economy. Fusion is still 30 years away to get Q factor of 10, this mean’s Fusion production is 60 years away. By which time if we do not do it we will not be first to move from a fiat currency.

[@stugod11]

Beth talking about parties 😂😂 😂

[@hangforh6320]

such a weak questioner, war criminal backer alastair must have loved it

[@wjarnock44]

Starmer doesnt believe what is saying.

[@timcomley5948]

Tainted

[@dogglebird4430]

As a Brexit supporter, I am delighted that Starmer has been crystal clear when he said: "Under a Labour government we will NEVER seek for the UK to rejoin the EU' and 'Freedom of Movement is in the past, we have to move on". Excellent! Unreconciled remainers like Campbell should also move on.

[@CG-or1re]

what is is that you love so much about brexit?

[@davidpryle3935]

@@CG-or1reWe’re bored talking about it. It’s yesterday’s news. We’ve moved on. The next referendum on EU membership will be in 2057.

[@wolfen210959]

@@CG-or1re IMHO we should forget about it and move on, because whether we want to rejoin or not, that choice is not and never will be ours to make, it will be for the EU to decide, and having constant debates about brexit is never going to convince either brexiteers or remainers that they were wrong.

[@hangforh6320]

ask someone that pretends to be honest person a simple honest question and they can't answer honestly.

[@hariowen3840]

Does anyone really care what he thinks?

[@johngoddard2270]

Highest rated podcast in the UK, so yes.

[@hariowen3840]

@@johngoddard2270 But that doesn't make him any less of a plastic toryblairite generic politics nu-labour tory2 slimeball though does it.

[@stevehill2862]

Yes

[@col.hertford9855]

Yes, because he’s an expert. I don’t have to like him to rate his opinion.

[@hariowen3840]

@@col.hertford9855 Give us some examples of his 'expert' opinions then.

[@rowellwilkinsonwilkinson5235]

Rishi Sunak is trying his best. He has entered an organisation that is duplicitous. He wants do do what is right for the country but he also has to placate the ERG. He has nothing to lose. He should get out and leave the mess to some crook.

[@eddyd63]

Rishi Sunak is a Brexiteer, ex banker whose vision for the country is socialism for the financial sector and cold, hard capitalism for everyone else. Stop talking absolute nonsense, he's one of the crooks. How many of the billions given away to his mates during covid has he recovered? None. Financial fraud has tripled under his watch and why is that? Because he doesn't want to lock up his mates. He's properly pulled the wool over your eyes hasn't he.

[@hangforh6320]

you certainly pucked the people over! what a joke of an analogy

[@farokudahitam]

Rishi Sunak is a pratt and would have been well bullied at my school .

[@manosmul6827]

Evil

[@gordonfleming458]

A war criminal with mental health issues telling us what to do 😂

[@lanatana3867]

Mr Sunak is The Rat Man. Come please get a picture of him and a 🐀 they will look identical twins lol 😂

[@jesseparker8878]

Attacking someone for the way they look shows you are stupid with nothing better to say at best or just a horrible person at worst.

[@hangforh6320]

alastair, do you think that my question is below you?

[@southbanktrousers2]

lol he's not in the comments replying to people mate

[@hangforh6320]

alastair, how much money did you make when we invaded iraq?

[@johngoddard2270]

How much money do you think he made from invading Iraq?

[@hangforh6320]

alastair...is blair a war criminal? yes or no!

[@col.hertford9855]

They have had six inquiries so far under several flavours of government. Not sure you will ever get an answer to that one.

[@hangforh6320]

@@col.hertford9855not sure i agree! but if we can trust any government, we need clarity. and i'll ask respectfully for your proof on six?

[@wolfen210959]

@@hangforh6320 I too disagree about the 6, but there was the official Iraq Inquiry, which found him not guilty, but what does it matter now? Blair is not standing for election, nor likely to ever again, so your question is pointless.

[@hangforh6320]

@@wolfen210959 did you actually read the report? he certainly was not found not guilty! read the report. but that aside your logic is... well, if we killed a bunch of foreigners such a long time ago, does ut really matter now! jfw

[@hangforh6320]

campbell was war criminal blair's advisor. remember that!

[@kristjonbergmundsson3926]

Yawn..

[@UdoBloss]

🥱🥱

[@hangforh6320]

@@kristjonbergmundsson3926 yawn to the thousands of innocents killed for a war criminal? or are you being put to bed by your mummy?

[@johngoddard2270]

In whose court?

[@ogribiker8535]

​@@hangforh6320 whatever