Is Rugby About To Change Forever?! | Rugby Pod Discuss New Global League

[@whatme50]

Anybody think Jim is already on the Saudi $ ?

[@AlwaysAC]

“I can’t say too much . . . But wouldn’t it be great ahah . . “

[@DM-rp9ik]

He would pay them tbf

[@gregoryleroy5646]

He's in negotiations with them.

[@johnnyj-t2e]

hamilton is without morality or loyalty. he'll go anywhere and do anything for money.

[@riverwolf654]

Hello from Ireland......The six nations has been diluted too cause everyone is talking about the friggen world cup all the time. Just forget about it until it comes around and enjoy the six nations more. The six nations is an amazing tournament.

[@johannblignaut1966]

As a Saffa I agree.Don’t easily miss a Six Nations game.Long may it continue.

[@jbask7124]

100%

[@alanbstard4]

exactly. I'm ick of this building for WC Bs

[@OscarOSullivan]

It has a rich heritage dating back to 1883. Possibly the oldest international sports competition in the world.

[@trinity1181]

if it had promotion relegation yes. Not fair that Italy get a free ride into the tournament every year while Georgia, Portugal and Spain are blocked from development.

[@Mojo16011973]

I think the French and URC are pretty happy with how their leagues are going. The Champions Cup is unfortunately a shambles now after they tried to "fix" the unbroken some years back.

[@T2Lam10]

The champions cup format is absolutely terrible. We’ll have the same problems as last year with round of 16 that are the same fixtures as pool games because that was not « chance », that’s pure mathematics ! I can’t understand how these stupid people came up with that formula. In a pool where there are one or two teams heavily dominating you’ll have them with 17-18-19-20 pts and the other two qualified will have around 8-9 In a pool where it’s more balanced, in which teams beating each either, having more defensive bonus points they will all between 10 and 15 So overall, when you put this in one table, the best and worst qualified will come from the same pool while those from the other pool will be in between Given that the fixtures are 1-16 , 2-15,…,8-9, you end up with the same games you had in the pools and a clear lack of interest Stupidest format I’ve seen in a long time

[@lmarislmarislmaris4271]

​@@T2Lam10Premiership is the poor sister these days. Their disparaging of the Japanese league just reeks of British xenophobia.

[@dam0ryan]

English man Mark McCaffery told everybody we will have more money. Nonsense from an English man and more nonsense from two more Englishmen.

[@24hr_rugby_jake]

@@lmarislmarislmaris4271it’s hard to see so much bs in one comment. Well done mate

[@NTL578]

​@lmarislmarislmaris4271 BS. Makes me laugh to see Saffas talking about race. The nerve!

[@WillievanZyl]

Fans don't want this. And it'll attract some new fans and sacrifice lots of old ones. Long term it will damage the sport when the new fans get bored and move on to e-sports or action soccer or whatever is the new fad.

[@rsharples1]

The players couldn’t care less in general about the fans. Like Goode said, if they can earn more and play less they’ll take it

[@cameronmmj9291]

The majority of the current fan base are so tight fisted, it could be the best sporting platform/content in the world, and they still wouldn't pay for it. The fans need to start putting their money where their mouth is and support the current system, if they enjoy it so much

[@tilmanvondelft]

✅

[@randomlyfactual1943]

@@WillievanZyl The fans aren't the ones with ACL tears and cracked vertebrae

[@Powerofmorris84]

@@WillievanZyl what fans? You could fit a weekend’s premiership attendance in Wembley!

[@wharfedalewanderer2592]

If this happens , rugby union ends up behind a pay wall forever and internationals which had already started . Game over for the average Joe

[@christiaandiedericks9383]

I agree. Very sad to see the game already being taken away from its grassroots and the average man and woman on the street

[@mhoppy6639]

Participation is already down. This will deteriorate it further. Look at cricket. The last ashes on free to air was in 2005. There was a huge surge in enthusiasm but it hasn’t been sustained. If WR wants to spread the game around the world with more players I’m not sure if this is the way to do it. Having said that, rugby players are woefully underpaid (compared to other sports) so I can understand the players wanting to secure a decent future. Not everyone can do punditry.

[@cameronmmj9291]

The sport dies without money. I don't necessarily agree with the project (creating a nfl style, global franchise) but fans need to put their money where their mouth is. Pay for content, buy shirts, turn up to matches. The game can't survive on just viewership from tv licence fee channels

[@mhoppy6639]

@ that’s true. Very true but I think I’m worried about a situation where virtually all the content disappears behind a paywall. Asking as there’s a decent spread where fans can pay for content and pay for content through the LF as that’s also a sort of paywall in itself. It’s monopolisation that stifles participation that worries me. If money means that more folks get interested and play the game then I’m all in.

[@cameronmmj9291]

@@mhoppy6639 I agree with that sentiment. It's a joke that sport, in general, in the UK is so chopped up and disjointed. It's the same for football. What I would support is a billionaire buyout, where they consolidate the rugby content onto one channel, make it £10-20pm and fans know exactly where to get it from.

[@haggiesm]

I don't understand how "sport-swashing" hasn't come up in this discussion. Because that's what this is. I'm all for players making money and whatnot, but I don't want a government to use the sport I love to make themselves look good.

[@paolozmm]

Probably because not enough people care. If LIV works for golf it shows that if the product is made really sexy annd anttractive and the players are making bank then other factors like sports washing don’t really factor in.

[@gregchristos8954]

@@paolozmm I don't know much about LIV, but to start it's an individual sport. To a lesser extent so is cricket. Hope the Saudis actually try this. Love to see Saudi billions land up on the trash heap.

[@mattpotter8725]

And also is this a sustainable model? What happens when the Saudis decide not to want to fund the sport anymore? I do get what he says in that if you offer players a shed load of money they will want to take it, but I honestly don't see how this works, how you can have global franchises because people in New Zealand/Australia, Europe, or even in North/South America are going to get screwed by this because the games will be on in the middle of the night when their favourite team/players are playing. Golf is very different because there are more top level players and there is always going to be funding whether the Saudis are funding it or not, plus it's a sport of individual players with individual tournaments as Andy mentioned. That's not the same with rugby. If this ever gets off the ground and players go I won't be watching it. Just as with the proposed European Super League in football if the clubs/players want to go let them and we'll fill up the gaps with other clubs. The same kind of applies to rugby, though whether the quality is there to sustain the sport I don't know, but then again is there the interest in domestic rugby outside of maybe France to support clubs in the way they need to be. I do fear what happens if you destroy even the currently struggling club structure here in England. If the top players are lured away and there's even less money for the top clubs what happens then? Will they be able to bring through the next generation of players? This seems very short sighted imo, but then again the Saudis don't care about the sport as a whole just what they can buy for their own purposes.

[@davidpeters3857]

💯

[@randomlyfactual1943]

@@haggiesm Did you protest the 2019 World Cup in Japan due to their inability to apologise or pay reparations to their WW2 victims in Nanjing? This is a sword that cuts both ways.

[@pieterels5704]

As soon as the Saudis become involved in Rugby it is game over. The true rugby supporter will stop supporting rugby. We rugby supporters wants to see AB, SB, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Australia etc competing. No rediculous cricket name teams.

[@thereader6667]

How can you not be a fan of the Jebel Ali Crusaders, though? 😂

[@StopTheRot]

Not sure that’s true. Seems a little racist 🤷‍♂️

[@jonathanburson4994]

Thought it is American money - not that it makes much difference

[@alanbstard4]

exactly

[@alanbstard4]

@@StopTheRot who cares?

[@HenryHayes-w1w]

Couldn't agree more with this. Very much part of the chat we had a few weeks ago, lads. Keep up the great work, Henry from Passionfruit.

[@SAnd-pd1ou]

Lot of time for you Jim, but the URC is fantastic

[@lmarislmarislmaris4271]

URC & Pro14 are so far superior to the Premiership it is sad to see the English commentators pretend it is the top club competition.

[@SAnd-pd1ou]

@@lmarislmarislmaris4271 yup, the 'Prem' as Goode calls it is dreadful

[@OscarOSullivan]

URC is quite a tough competition to win.

[@Gilan4983]

If we could watch it all with only one TV subscription vs 2-3 I’d watch it

[@cro649]

@Gilan4983 would you? A box kicking contest in Saudi for made up teams? I'd go and watch some of Wales historic clubs at semi pro level and enjoy much more running rugby.

[@Gilan4983]

@@cro649 then do it

[@mattpotter8725]

I'm sick of people saying they want it all on one TV subscription because I find everyone who says this basically means Sky Sports. I can't afford Sky Sports but had BT Sports, now TNT Sports and am getting some international rugby on there whereas before the autumn internationals were on Sky. Did I moan, no. Get a grip is what I say. If it's all on one channel then Sky can basically charge whatever they want because you're hostage to them. I'd love to watch some URC rugby games but it's not on the subscription I have. Years ago I did have Sky Sports and loved watching the Super Rugby they had, I'd love to see some of that, but do I moan about not being able to watch them, no. I'll miss not being able to watch the Champions Cup this year, so maybe it is too fragmented, but these companies don't have unlimited money and make their choices accordingly, as do I. Personally I think some games should be on each platform, but these companies want exclusive rights for what they pay and doing it this way would mean even less money for the sport so it's just not the way the sporting world works and someone is always going to miss out.

[@AlphaNevada123]

2-3? That has reduced a bit from last few years

[@dam0ryan]

Pipe down. Irish people doing it for years. Bout time you guys were forced to pay more.

[@johnnieolivier1010]

People need to be honest that as much as rugby is a sport that fans love, it's a job for players that have a very short lifespan and they need to be well compensated for putting their bodies through extreme contact week after week. I hope a good balance is reach between financial compensation and player well-being. I also hope that this game we love reach more exposure worldwide to countries that never had any rugby footprint

[@mattpotter8725]

In the end though in any business you only get paid what is sustainable for the business to keep going, so whilst I understand what you're saying and you're right, for the top players now it would probably be appealing, but if you kill the revenue for the clubs who have to finance identifying, coaching, and bringing through the next generation of players, if they aren't somehow recompensed for doing this, which I can't see how they would be where does the next generation of players come from? This to me looks like it just isn't sustainable. And when the Saudis decide they're tired playing with their new toy and move on to whatever next they line up in their sights, what happens then? Throw enough money at people and sure they'll jump but they didn't mean it works beyond the short term.

[@bertRaven1]

this idea of globalising the game sounds great, but in practice it could only really work if the tier two nations had the potential to grow the revenue of the game in a big way long term. the large unions, that create that revenue, develop players etc, funding rugby in a place like Georgia etc just doesn't make any sense. How much are TV rights there going to ever bring in?

[@johnnibaz6883]

The guardian : "Eight men’s franchises, around 280 of the world’s top players involved, host venues in new markets, all dovetailing neatly with the existing international programme. Someone, somewhere has clearly done some extravagant doodling on the back of a beermat. And then paid a well-connected firm of intermediaries to fly the whole kite as high as possible, via a couple of obliging media outlets, to gauge the potential public appetite. At which point, for anyone who has seen various other revolutionary goldrush proposals come and go over the years, reality crashes through the saloon doors and takes its usual seat at the bar. It is certainly a pity the instigators did not come to the Breakdown in advance for a little free, unsolicited advice. Because there is an overwhelmingly good reason why these schemes never come to fruition and it is this: the people behind them fail to grasp what rugby union is ultimately about." Sums up my thoughts rather neat

[@SocialObject]

Good reference

[@kevindevane6175]

The geographics of the whole thing is a joke from the get go.

[@OscarOSullivan]

South Africans were spending a lot of the time flying and suffering serious jet lag, going across multiple time zones all the time.

[@kevindevane6175]

@@OscarOSullivan and look how the Kiwis and Aussies thanked them!

[@JohnTerblanche-l1r]

​@@kevindevane6175super rugby got f uk when they expanded it, it wasnt financially viable anymore to fly all over the world, lots of our unions were almost bust.

[@h3llb3nd4]

Did no one involved take a step back and look at how LIV is panning out?

[@Tarzanonspeed]

GBR did a great 5 mins on this topic this week and we’re very positive. If funded consistently it’s the best recipe to grow and save the game by: 1) Protects the top players with less game time, more money and better lead and prep going into international windows. 2) Massively eases the wage bills at the club level who are on the floor financially. And allows more money from the RFUs to filter into the game not just top players pockets. 3) Targets at new fans not traditional. Allows for more excitement globally like the F1 to bring more attention to rugby and grow the game in the new countries. More money, more advertising, more spectacle, more drama means more fans. 4) Opens up opportunities for more home grown developing talent to play for their clubs and deep the domestic talent pools. 5) Allows for top players to play against other top players more regularly to develop themselves and the game.

[@hermanvisser4034]

International stars are only stars until a year or so after they have become prostitutes for money. The IPL proved this. Watched by Indians and Pakistanis and nobody else. The proud traditions of Cricket are now all gone. I think the IPL destroyed Cricket. There is something about a player playing for your home country or province.

[@peternoble3691]

Yes! How much would the owner of a ‘new’ league pay for their franchises to replicate the passion and tribalism of a Leicester Northampton, or Munster Leinster. How much would they pay marketing consultants to come up with a tradition like the Haka, come to think of it! Rugby has these things in abundance.

[@mattpotter8725]

I do agree, however you can understand how it happened and India is a cricket mad country with a huge population so it seems sustainable to a certain extent. If the same was true for rugby with the Saudis I'd still not be happy, but could understand why this has come about, but they're not a rugby nation so this is just about money and not about a product. One other thing that's different is that in cricket you can bring in a player, a great batsmen, a top level bowler into any team and they can slot right in. Rugby is a team sport that needs understanding and knowledge of players around you and only this mostly only works over time so I don't see how this works in the same way at all. It's just about money.

[@jonomusoman]

I was thinking the same. Then you add the female versions of all the sports and you have a ridiculous amount of content. Sport will implode soon with the amount of greed and meaninglessness associated with it. Not every sport has to ‘rule the world’ and reach every market. Just keep it how it is. That’s what fans love about it.

[@suffern63]

The word franchise says it all...Franchise rugby will never win over fans.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Just look at Super Rugby or the Welsh regions.

[@TheWelshSportsPodcast]

The dragons catching a stray bullet 😂 Good chat Lads. The point about the amount of games is so true

[@brianvdm]

great show lads hello from south africa

[@henrymilleruk100]

I’m a Quins fan - if Marcus smith went to top 14 I’m not going to follow the top 14 and drop Quins. I’ll still be a Quins fan and an England fan. Will the overall quality drop? Yeah maybe but I watch my team(s) because they are my teams based on where I live. Not because of who plays for them. Would I watch the new comp? If it’s on my current tv package (discovery) then yeah sure, would I go across the world to watch it - nope.

[@gregoryparkes-skelly8288]

In articles it mentions about running each round as an event involving concerts etc. Not sure how it would work but that's what's been put out in the media. A lot of people are focusing on this element of what was said here as being supportive of the concept. That's not my take. They are using it to talk about load management and the number games at club level that are being played.

[@willdasilva1478]

- yet to secure concrete funding - no broadcast partner - major TV rights holders won’t engage (Sky, TNT, BBC, ITV) to protect existing relationships - LIV golf not televised anywhere in its launch season for the same reasons - RFU and Premiership signed an 8-year contract giving them joint control of players = players forced to choose between playing for their country or a franchise Breaking the sport up is the opposite of sustainable for rugby’s future!

[@ianbrodie5051]

Going off the point why don't the English rugby union and the Wales rugby have a meeting with all the managers and discuss what's happening and what should change with their national teams

[@chrismouton1985]

Jim, I agree with your sentiment at 6:25, but I think that can all be solved if World Rugby actually puts together a global calender. They had the opportunity in 2020 during the pandemic, but they squandered it. To add another tournament is not the answer. And what about the crowds? Who the hell is going to fly to Saudi to go and support some random team that they are not affiliated with? Rugby has home and away games. Travelling has always been part of it. That's part of the fun. Some of my favourite memories and lack of memories come from rugby tours. This tournament will kill the spirit of rugby.

[@twoface_janus]

Jim seems in on the deal. We don’t need this!!! Sort a global calendar out. Less games, better quality will make more money

[@garygavin857]

I am a club fan first. Here is what I want a domestic league where every week the best squad is played . At times injuries allowing with the best players. My club is not able to do this. Not even in the first games off the season. International players are missing. My chopped up season is not giving me continuity. The Saudi Cash is not going to help me one bit. Set UP, like the players,I definitely feel exploited. Even an England A game is behind a pay wall. Covid should have taught the Investors empty stadiums do not sell. Even on TV. I love the Premiership as every game matters , especially with relegation back. Not all players are mercenaries. Tigers have many who love the club like me. Would I pay to watch the sandcastles in the pie in the sky league. Why would I do that. Think again . Smart people know simple goes a long way. History tells you that. The Saudi cash is not gate crashing my Castle.

[@iallso1]

It's possible to have a location a week like the 7s tournaments so that all teams have the same travel conditions. And then, like SuperRugby over the last couple of years, have a super round, where all the teams play over a weekend at the same venue.

[@OscarOSullivan]

But the sevens circuit is declining in interest.

[@randomlyfactual1943]

From a South African perspective, this won't matter too much. Half our team plays for overseas clubs anyway, as our own local currency is little more than monopoly money to you guys. Currently we have PSDT, Kwagga, De Allende, Kolbe, Kriel, Marx and Faf playing in Japan in front of 12 people, but its less taxing on their bodies than Pro 14, URC or the Prem. Then they come back to SA and, well, kick major amounts of behind. As long as their contracts with the Riyadh Rangers or the Abu Dhabi Acorns don't interfere with their Bok duty, I'm all for it. The league itself won't draw viewers or attendance and it doesn't need to. If the founding group have as much money as Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos put together, they can make a continuous loss for decades and not feel one iota of it. Lastly, there is the question of sport washing: I don't care. The laptop and phone I have were probably built by cheap Chinese labour of one US Dollar a day. The petrol that makes my car go probably comes from Saudi Arabia anyway. Why is it okay for our governments to do business with Saudi Arabia but when a rugby player looking for his family wants to do it, its suddenly wrong. Oh, and lets not pretend that the US, Britain and Europe doesn't have their own skeletons in the closet. I don't see any major sport stars boycotting the US for the war in Iraq.

[@NTL578]

Yeah, I'm English but level of sanctomony that goes on about Saudi is way over the top.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Maybe the URC money should be in pounds sterling or euros. As for what is what is wrong with the likes of Saudi Arabia, they are theocracies.

[@JohnTerblanche-l1r]

You clearly dont know anything about your own players in Japan because they fill stadiums, most games are more then half full. Cant say the same for some urc games, the lions and bulls has had empty stadiums for a while now because everyone watches on tv from home because of the crime close to the stadium. WR should sort out a structure because like Jim said noyone knows who is playing who and when. In super rugby early days it was short and sweet, everyone knew what was going on, and after season it was straight into tri nations and end of year season which made everything easy to watch, nowadays it's not so straightforward.

[@randomlyfactual1943]

@JohnTerblanche-l1r I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, but I do mind the hostile "you clearly know nothing about this topic" when you haven't looked at a single statistic. If you're going to be hostile, please have the decency to be correct. Average attendance figures for the competitions in question: Top 14: 15000 Gallagher Premiership: 12500 URC: 11500 Japan League One: 9500. Yes, I'm sure that my high school stadium could get filled as well. It's not as impressive a feat when the stands can only hold nine people.

[@raphaelg17]

I think that this kind of project is important to re open the debate on the calendar length and put pressure on clubs to give better treatment to their internationals. As a french, I see players like Gregory Aldritt being washed out by the Top14 and CC and ANS and 6N weeks and weeks out and this can't go on forever like that. We already can't send our "premium" team to the summer tour due to said calendar cause players at Toulouse for example would only have like 2 weeks of holydays per year... However, I don't think this project will even be able to come to life because domestic leagues are the money makers and federation will block it from happening like the english did with the ban of Jack Willis for example. If playing before 12 people prevent you from playing for your country I don't think a lot of "trendy" players would follow through with this conditions in mind even for a lot of plata.

[@craigturner1748]

Comparing football to rugby and the Internationals here makes sense, although the difference there is that most of the times, the standard of the club games is higher, with most big clubs being stronger than most of the international teams, no the case in rugby at all

[@tinypicklenick3601]

I could see a huge potential for this but only under a very specific circumstance. Firstly. I'd have to imagine they will only pick the top international players... Meaning for most club teams, there would only be a few players out. Which i dont beleive would affect the quality too much. Secondly I would specifically hope all the teams would be owned collectively within the league. So there is easy player swaps between teams to give versitility in fixtures and game types. Thirdly, I'd hope for fan service fixtures like north v south hemesphere games. Any other ideas/ suggestions?

[@tinypicklenick3601]

Thinking about this for more than 20 seconds I realise this isn't sustainable. Just trying to be an optimist ahah. I really think unions and world rugby could do so much more to market the game better firstly by having a unified streaming service for games and optimising fan interactions by pumping some effort into things like fantasy but I Just can't see them making those kind of decisions.

[@gregchristos8954]

It's dead before it's started. I don't watch rugby to see sixes hit out of the park. I watch rugby to see teams fight it out in the trenches. There's an emotional connection. As a Saffa I love watching the URC and Internationals. You're talking scheduling. That's fine. Fix it. Also, I think you'll find the average rugby fan is not particularly fond of the Saudis

[@OscarOSullivan]

Munster vs Stormers 2023 final was a fantastic match as a Munster supporter.

[@ianwalter62]

If this sort of competition was played within the timing windows established under the WR regulation 9 - meaning that the competition owners honour the international period release rules properly, unlike the French clubs' attitude - it might possibly be a very good thing for Rugby. However, I agree that if is run with the round ball PL attitude it will be, possibly, a very bad thing, at least for international competition. As a result, if the players are keen on it, then WR should work with it, not against it, to get to the first possibility. What we don't want is a heads in the sand attitude, hoping it just goes away, because with that sort of money on the table it likely won't.

[@jjlee9316]

Totally correct with MLR comparison

[@TomWatkeys]

I think unlike football (soccer), rugby fans are still localised. There's people in Nigeria who support Manchester United, there's not hoards of Mexicans supporting tolouse. Moving rugby away from the local fans will be a disaster, add to that nations like NZ, SA and England holding fast on not picking players who are based overseas and you'll end up with a rugby league which attracts second string players, has no local fanbase - wouldn't work

[@randomlyfactual1943]

It doesn't have to work. They got Cristiano Ronaldo to go play football over there for enough money to probably pay the salaries of all the players in the Six Nations. When funded by billionaires, live gate and viewership numbers don't really matter.

[@TomWatkeys]

@@randomlyfactual1943 CR7 is supported by people who don't speak any of the languages he does, who have bought Man UTD, Real Madrid and Juventus shirts with his name on them. How many people do you think own a French/Castres/Tolouse rugby jersey with DuPont's name who aren't French? Maybe a few thousand at most, but not the MILLIONS required to support a league

[@randomlyfactual1943]

@@TomWatkeys You're absolutely right. At United, Juventus or Madrid, they made huge money with viewership rights and licensing fees, merch and live attendance. That allowed them to afford the king's ransom of a salary. You are right to infer that the Saudi league does not make the same kind of money and that the business model is not sustainable in and of itself. But you are forgetting where the funding comes from. These people can make a loss for a hundred years straight doing this league and still not run out of money.

[@Jesus_is_Lord_316]

SA pick overseas based players all the time. We don’t have a policy like the Kiwis do.

[@jonathanklynhans8413]

It’s working in cricket in SA but that’s because the club/provincial leagues are nonexistent and terrible, so the product was required in order to reboot the game in SA. Rugby is alive and well, just needs some tweaking as suggested on the podcast around a global season, fewer games etc. (look at the NFL season).

[@gkmarais]

Great news as long as it comes with better officiating and common sense changes to current laws.

[@BaneofBalor]

The split channels issue is almost exclusively a premiership problem, so to say that "Everything is shite" with regards to this should include that caveat. When I'm watching here in Ireland, if I want to watch any of the provinces (bar Ulster), I can do so for free. If I want to watch almost any other URC match, I need 1 subscription. So Jim's arguments are almost exclusively English.

[@mattpotter8725]

You're absolutely right. The difference is that clubs here are run as businesses and I think they like to think they're like the Premier League football clubs, entitled to the same incomes, which they're not. If I understand it rightly the provinces in Ireland are funded, at least in the majority, by the central Irish rugby union and so it is all geared towards producing players for the Irish rugby team, not just the clubs, which is a great system as I think in most countries the international game is where the money is at. Here in England there isn't really a structure at all, which I think is where the problems lie. You have top clubs that are run for making money for the club, badly with the exception of a handful, and have to look after themselves. I don't think there's the interest in the club game to support it at the level those with the most running these clubs would like and so it basically depends on benefactor owners, who if they disappear for whatever reason the clubs they are associated with have massive difficulty, thus it just isn't sustainable. This is how it's always been since professionalism in the 80s/90s happened. I think every other country, with the exception of France has a system of provincial teams (I'm sure just as is the case with Ireland does having clubs before them feeding into them). This isn't really the case here in England as people from say Nottingham aren't going to support Leicester and even though Nottingham has had a second tier club for ever it seems, but they'll never become a top level club and so unless you're really interested in rugby you'll never be that enthused to watch Premiership rugby. And so there are small pockets of support for local city based clubs with huge gaps in between whereas in Ireland if you're not in the cities you will still be invested in supporting your province. I honestly don't know how you change this, except like in France having promotion/relegation and not all the money at the top, in the top division, but those with the power hoard it for their own interests. This Saudi funded proposal sounds no different but from non rugby people and a non rugby playing nation as far as I can see. I just don't see how you have a global league. This is all pie in the sky.

[@NTL578]

I think he means more the scheduling of the season rather than TV scheduling.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Ban the likes of Sky sports, TNT sports etc.

[@vmanmabaso9539]

The structure is messed up and they just add more games. How is that going to help the game especially with world rugby changing the game every single month.

[@santiagoremedi7385]

Imho football is a good example of what they will achieve with this. Some players will buy into this cos of the earnings, some players will opt to stay in Europe cos they'll prefer to keep the prestige of playing for Toulouse/Leinster/Stormers, etc. Regarding audiences, it will be a huge mistake. Are the diehard fans supposed to spend stupid money on tickets to saudi to keep watching the matches at the stadiums? Will they have to pay for yet another streaming service to watch those games? What team do they support?? The one with the most similar colours to theirs? The one where their favourite players went to? That's just not how being a fan works. Saudis believe that they can buy fans passion and evidence shows it cant be bought. They are overestimating how difficult it is to build a loyal sports audience because they have the petrol to buy all the rest. But they are doomed to fail yet another time. F1 said yes to hosting ONE grand prix, but no to being sold to them. Football got C. Ronaldo and Neymar, but what happened is they disappeared from the football map. Nobody cares about al hilal or al watafak. That's why they are negotiating a UCL entry. All in all, Saudi sport projects are dogshit, and eventually end up as a failure. Being offered a huge amount of money can make anyone doubt, but world rugby is going in the right direction without this and setting up this saudi league would be brutally damaging

[@bertRaven1]

agree, look at the atmosphere of the boxing in Saudi

[@joedennehy386]

Test rugby is where its at for me, and test cricket, as well but cricket franchise t20 is big

[@jonesyjones7626]

The numbers just don’t add up. So, unless someone is going to accept losses for a long time, it doesn’t make financial sense. Rugby is a minority sport in the UK and France, the most populous countries and the size of rugby supporting potential subscribers in the remaining countries is not that large.

[@mattpotter8725]

Is rugby really a minority sport in France? I thought the whole reason their League was doing so well was because at least in certain parts of the country rugby is bigger than football. Investors from Qatar bought PSG and they win the league pretty much every year so I can't see attendances at most French football fans being higher than at the Top 14 rugby games. You're definitely right about England, but I think this is due to the way the club game is structured with the historically top clubs generally being in cities where there aren't top level football teams and so the potential TV market isn't very high (with the exception of London). If you could change that, maybe having a working promotion/relegation system to spread interest further, then you could probably make it work. At present though it's just not a very viable product.

[@RobertJ-lk5bb]

All the IRF have to say you are not available for International team contention if you join.

[@gregchristos8954]

That will be the Boks, NZ, Australia... ... everyone. The Saudis believe they can buy everything. Ain't gonna happen.

[@extremesportsify]

Please don’t happen

[@RalphBrooker-gn9iv]

Saudi Sandcastles 😅 30 years man and boy 😊

[@bootsandall3612]

I have already stopped watching live sport as it is just to expensive. I used to be a sport fanatic. Since I broke away from the "addiction" I realise how much time and money I have wasted in my life to enrich other people. Life turns out for the better.

[@peterm..6981]

..The Saudi-Ice-Castles are a really Cool rugby team.. ________________________________

[@M_Tp_isallmine]

Would the fans accept higher ticket prices so we can pay the players more? Would love to hear your thoughts

[@StopTheRot]

I think the solution is reasonably simple. If we want a game that matters away from internationals, there should be a British and Irish Lions League. 10 English teams, 2 Scottish, 4 Irish, and probably 2 or 3 Welsh. They play each other once only, through the season (like the 6N it alternates between home and away). People would care about the results. The same network subscription could be in place for the whole of Britain and Ireland and - because of that - it could probably be £30+ a month, because we’d need only one subscription.

[@OscarOSullivan]

I don’t want a British and Irish league and even if I did I want it to be public broadcasters only.

[@samtyrrell4488]

Thats just what we need another league behind a paywall, no realistic live support prospects and all the best players leaving the domestic game from every league. Completely agree that world rugby need to sort out a global league structure because currently the playing field is not level. Being a rugby fan in the fact I'd watch any rugby on but now I need 5 different subscriptions to watch poor rugby at times especially being a welsh fan, it's not fair on the fans. They need to reward us and then the money will come into the game from more people watching. Also a better standard of the leagues and structures so we want to watch our region's/clubs because currently I have no interest in paying to watch the scarlets and zebre for instance, but give me scarlets and Leicester tigers I'd be desperate to see it. I'd be 100% behind a British and Irish league or an anglowelsh league if the Irish are happy making loads of money and only having to play their b teams most weeks in the urc. Things need to change in order for rugby to get back to a place of stability where clubs and regions aren't constantly threatened with bankruptcy.

[@OscarOSullivan]

The British and Irish league is a terrible idea.

[@wesrobmat]

Good luck training and living in Saudi.

[@Tellemore]

Goode is spot on in his opening remarks.

[@TommyCat4]

Well said

[@CagedPaps]

It's not unique to rugby though, we're screwed here, in much of Europe but especially the UK. You need 3 subs to watch some leagues, and football you don't get the 3pm Saturday games included in that. But if you're in the USA, it's 1 sub for everything. Too many games in football too, but I wouldn't say just the prem. It's the prem and then UCL, but you've also got the FA Cup and EFL cup etc. So the players bin off the international games, injuries pop up etc. Whereas yeah, the autumn tests or whatever they call them now does sellout stadium. Murrayfield had 4 this year, 3 sold out and the Portugal game 61k. 61k to watch a tier 2 nation and get pumped by Scotland's b team. So there's appetite there, but we handle sports and money so badly in this country.

[@reese8097]

6:25 Thats a media issue, not a league issue. Rugby media is almost oppressively dimwitted. If this mystery investor wants to boost rugby they should develop a real rugby videogame. The handful of years it is burning cash, I'm glad for the players. But the fans want their existing teams battling the top foreign clubs. It's massively different, in individual competition(golf) compared to a real team competition(rugby).

[@KODE0101]

schedule doesn't work. There's a big divide between all the major leagues and this honestly feels like the Prem needs it more than the other leagues, maybe NZ and Aus as well Union structure is too unbalanced to add more leagues and games, Sharks hardly see their best players because they're either playing international or resting after the international break. Unless there's a solution to aligning the seasons, it won't work.

[@pheasantplucker6117]

Yes the lads are fed up with it. So don't sign up as a professional rugby player. They pay yer money you don't have a choice. Top 5% can earn a good wedge at 25k per game for England. The lower leagues will still struggle.

[@MrJonnyl123]

The majority of players don’t earn a lot of money for the beating that they take with that schedule

[@russellblake9850]

1) how many games can top rank players (any players) play in a year ? 2) how many fans watch Barbars ? and that's a "team" with a huge history ?

[@TP1988]

We’d all like to earn 4x as much for half the work, but ultimately if that leads to a smaller less-interested customer base it’s not going to work is it. What is it about sport that attracts this ‘if we build it [the same as now but more expensive] they will come’ bollocks? Oh yes, all those people not converting to rugby now will FLOCK over once they hear that 40 blokes they’ve never heard of are earning £1m to play in Miami next week. Get a grip.

[@philipstorey8370]

How many games are rugby players actually playing?

[@durriek9952]

I just want one subscription where I can watch all the rugby….!

[@daggaboom]

I'm all for it as a saffa. More guys that get signed up for a new arab league with mega money means more guys at home get a career opportunity.

[@JohnN-yu8kr]

Feels like this will break rugby if it happens.

[@mikegray8776]

If World Rugby was prepared to THINK carefully about its game - they would have tackled the “Worldwide Season” years ago - and thereby the physical care of its players. But its sole priority has always been money to the Centre !! Hence no Internationals on Free to air transmission, players in the URC shuttling between SA and Ireland for midweek nothing-games, refusing to select international players who opt to play in nearby countries - just to paper over totally inept domestic league management. Rugby is dominated by opinionated “old farts” who devote far more time and thought to organising innovative Wine lists than to running and developing a proper, huge, professional sport.

[@cro649]

Sounds awful and I can see me and my boy never watching rugby again.

[@gavinberry1796]

Reminds me of IPL in cricket, test cricket is dying as a result!

[@OscarOSullivan]

Think the English and Welsh cricket board making it pay to view is to blame.

[@RossoVerdeNero]

Every single Six Nations match is a proper battle for pride, for history, for kudos, for bragging rights. A purely money-based tournament with manufactured franchise teams? Just making this up, but say for instance half a dozen Irish internationals started playing for the "Sharjah Supermen" or some other such bollox manufactured team. Would I give a sh!t who they beat? No. Would I pay a subscription to watch them? No. Will the mainstream start covering it? Probably, in the hope they might get some bums on seats. But i don't think the Middle Eastern moneybags guys would care. They don't NEED the tournament to be a success in viewing numbers. They just want to crow that they have the best players in THEIR league. Sports-washing. That's all it is.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Especially with all the side trophies like the Calcutta cup. The Calcutta cup goes back to the 1870’s with the six nations going back to 1883.

[@shaunwilding4509]

Let's be honest...... English rugby has been on financial and sustainability life support for nearly 30 years. From the top of the domestic game to the very bottom it needs ripping up and starting again. Yes some great old clubs may go and yes some franchise's will be created but if it's to survive the game has to change big, before it all goes.

[@lmarislmarislmaris4271]

Sportswashing by brutal dictatorship, making sport dependant on them. And the crowds are big in Japan. That is a sports loving country.

[@OscarOSullivan]

And a country that loves the more niche sports such as baseball and rugby union

[@Moretosh]

Says a lot about the players.

[@markl2815]

Knowing when the various games are is one thing, trying to figure out how to watch them is another and essentially none of that is now available free to air so you can end up needing multiple various subscriptions just to watch OR you can try to find a couple of hundred quid plus expenses to visit what used to be called twickenham. This is a minority sport too

[@SuranGuest]

Every business must be financially sustainable. The costs will be transfered to the fans. If a financial business case exists why cant the rfu do it. Ask a Leinster, Leicester or bulls fan to support another club. We don't choose, we're born into it.

[@astraydhurion7697]

I might be time to gather English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish championships into one and only league in order to create a sustainable financial model.

[@OscarOSullivan]

And shaft the South Africans and Italians, no thanks.

[@offal]

bad idea, from a corperate perspective, we now have the most famous Rugby stadium in the world called `the Allienz Twickenham` and the Second `Scottish Gas Murrayfield` for christ sake, you buy a shirt and it is plastered with Corperate logos, I mean where does this pish end? you buy a shirt and its got Tampax, or Femfresh or ginsters or fray bentos plastered all over the front. I absolutely hate this, and will never buy a sport shirt again, I mean put the logo on the arm. it ruined football and it will ruin Rugby. Once you start chasing this it will turn Rugby into the out of control football model that we have today. The price of everything will rise. Rugby isn`t a Sport of superstars or men who play for money, it always seperated itself from the others, men playing for pride and love of the game, yes they should be paid WELL as they are entertainers, but this type of thing wil get out of control, footballers are paid well too much, they do not deserve to be paid this much, then there will be the sponsorships and tv work, men with full grown beards advertising Gillete razors, and still have the beard at the end of the add. that kind of mouthbreathing shit.NO Thankyou.

[@OscarOSullivan]

Dexcom stadium, Kingspan stadium, Virgin media park and Aviva stadium are all still the Sportsground, Ravenhill, Musgrave park and Landsdowne road to me. At least here in Ireland the provincial clubs and national side have been sponsored by Banks, car makers, insurance companies, couriers, an airport for Munster, Crimespan for Ulster and telecoms companies. The jerseys have minimal sponsorship, often just the one or two.

[@neill392]

Allegedly American money, if that's true, would be a damn sight cheaper to buy the MLR and use that as the basis. I suspect this is a kite flying exercise.

[@hanoitripper1809]

Saudi rugby is great for the Pacific Islanders and further league guys wanting to make the jump

[@oldershikari828]

I hate this 👎 Big businesses trying to come up with new ways to make 'TikTok friendly' content from sport.. They're doing the same with cricket and 'The Hundred', whilst the purity of county and the test game wither away.. Fund the schools, fund grass routes and elevate the lower divisions for a much healthier looking rugby union..

[@johnhanson5943]

I loved rugby because it wasn’t all about bloody Arab / US / other oligarchic money. When that changes and becomes out of balance, I stop watching rugby (except local school and club rugby).

[@alexportig5215]

Ulster fan - totally agree re leagues are a mess - me and mates were season ticket holders for a 10 years - have given them up purely because you can go with 4-6 weeks without a match then 2 in a row - matches are on different days (Friday Saturday Sunday) and different times (afternoon early evening or night) and as said so many different competitions the format of these change all the time - too much chasing of the tv money and too many channels it all adds up to loyal fans are at the bottom of the heap

[@OscarOSullivan]

Too many fallow weeks.

[@JimmiesChoices]

Hear hear 👏🏼

[@errisgloshfan]

The new league will be a TV game with small crowds on one side of the pitch and tv cameras on the other.

[@mrm1884]

I'm sorry Jim, you make little sense. Sometimes I feel like you just say stuff for the sake of saying them. You don't apply critical reasoning at all at certain times. It's like you kinda say what you truly believe without thinking it through enough to make clear decisions. I guess you are just like a perfect mold of what world rugby and it's people are at at this particular moment. You just want to implement decisions without looking at the broader picture of things.

[@geoffholmes7006]

There are thousands of new, talented rugby players coming out of school every year. Let the top guys move to a Liv-style circus - just more opportunities for the rest. That’s not to say that World Rugby doesn’t need to wake up and reform the international calendar - they do!

[@jameswyatt4443]

Absolutely not. I want to watch the best South African players play in South Africa. I want to be able to go to the games.

[@andrewsmith-cm9qw]

Look at Wasps!!! Left their support base and in 10 years bust. I lived in Marlow and went to Adam’s Park for every home game NEVER once went to Coventry. P.S and no one wants to go to Kent to see Wasps talk to the owners at Wycombe and develop Adam’s Park. That’s where Wasps will find a support to carry them for the next 150 years.

[@FirstbornWallus-fk5nq]

Don't let it happen please

[@JohnRidley12]

What I'd love to know is, what happens if it doesn't work? If this kills the prem, which it would, you won't be able to just rebuild the prem again.

[@mattpotter8725]

I am totally against this, but, and I say this as someone with a 6th tier local club that used to be higher up the pyramid in the amateur days, but I really only watch the Internationals. I'm probably somewhere in between Leicester, Northampton, and Gloucester with no ties to any of them. I have a TV subscription to the channel that shows the Premiership rugby but rarely watch it, mainly because of the quality (though it does seem to have improved recently with more exciting rugby so maybe I'll give it another go). I did watch the Heineken/European/Champions Cup up until last season (TNT Sports, formerly BT Sport don't have the rights to this anymore), the games were top quality and you got to see all the stars for the big clubs from all the top leagues in Europe. I think this sums up the problem in England in that support it's localised and if you don't have a top local club or historic ties to any of them it's difficult to be interested in sitting down and watching matches between teams you just don't care about. As a final note I did used to watch Super Rugby, mainly because of the quality. I had South African colleagues where I worked and so chose to support the Sharks, the team a friend supported as he was from their province. The games again were top quality, fast, and exciting so I just don't know why I can't get invested in the Premiership. Would it be so bad if those big English clubs were forced to restructure the league so that coverage was more spread and I had a local team that was involved, that could get promoted to play the big boys? As I said I'm dead against this proposal but rugby in England at club level is already broken apart from due the handful of historically big clubs who most of the population of the country don't care about and thus it's quite small fish in the scheme of things. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but it's my honest opinion.

[@JohnRidley12]

@mattpotter8725 if the money was good in to creating a better product game that would be perfect

[@mattpotter8725]

@@JohnRidley12 I'm not even sure what this means. Money is only available by either those wanting a return on their investment or as I suspect is the case here having too much money than to know what to do with and just needing it to diversify investment and influence people, especially those wealthy people already involved in the sport to ally with you and spread your message. What you put sounds amazing, I can't disagree with it, but the problem is this isn't a simple problem. Maybe without knowing the details you can't really make an assessment but I would expect it to be centred on the European/South African market, maybe with a view to expand into the US, though I think that is extremely difficult. If, as I read in someone else's comment it would function a bit like the IPL but with it following a schedule similar to the International 7s one with rounds of games being in one location, maybe Hong Kong one month, London the next, Joburg the one after that, but I just don't see how that functions and why enough fans would turn up to watch these in effect meaningless games, especially when there'd have to be say 5 or 6 games in a location that isn't already highly into the game. One of games for big teams like Ireland v All Blacks in Chicago works, but if there were another 5 games between last teams as well does that get a crowd in to grow the sport? I'm also at a loss as to how you grow the game in the way envisioned. Say you were in one of these new territories, you get a ticket to go and see a game because of the way it's marketed, and it's the biggest thing in town that weekend, say that makes a certain % of people invested as fans, does that grow the game where they are? It doesn't without local investment, clubs, coaches, and who funds this? It might make some money for those with the TV rights, but probably not as much as paying the players and the massive circus needed to keep the show on the road. And what about the already established markets? Fans who are already invested in the games don't get to see as many in person or on TV because games will be on at unviewable times much of the time for those in various parts of the world, maybe everywhere. So I just don't get it. Why would anyone, apart from the players getting big increases in pay, support this. I'm also thinking about what you mention about it killing the Prem. Say all the top players go, and each of the Prem clubs are left with say 5 less top players, they backfill with youth or reserve players, maybe they have to invest a little more to bring through replacements. Yes the quality would drop, for a while at least (maybe it could never get back to where it was because any new star gets picked away to play in this new venture), but would your average Leicester Tigers fan, your Northampton Saints, your Bath, Saracens, Harlequins fan stop going to watch their local club or would it just carry on without this top level player. The answer is I don't really know, but it could end up with this new LIV style venture failing because no one is interested and all the players having to come back to the Prem or anywhere else that will take them. My final thought is whether the players would all want to be on the road so much rather than be able to just be settled in one location with their friends and family around them, except when they're away on international duty. I just don't see how it works.

[@VelvetRiot-hz5mp]

NZ and OZ would roll over, they are skint. Good chance to weed out the rubbish laws. Speed up the restarts, add quarters, stop the clock on stoppages etc..

[@HavenFlux]

If the Unions got some balls and told player that if you dont play in national league you do not qualify for national team this bull shit will be nipped in the bud. The other thing that needs to happen is all the tickets for National Games should be general sale. Atmosphere at games especially internationals is being killed with coporate event tickets...

[@davidwalker2402]

Liv ruined Golf for the fans thats a fact… it is fans that have created rugby as it is today .

[@HMacK-x5r]

Empty stadia in Middle East and an end to the traditional values of Rugby Union as overpaid players become spoiled entitled brats. Forget it.

[@ScipioAmericanus__]

I like it.

[@TheFIGHTERTC]

id rather watch veteran standard at saints than a shite circus of rugby

[@neilgraham12]

All the top players are playing in the majors still.

[@MichaeldeSousaCruz]

Nostalgia 😂 I keep clicking these videos and I just don’t give a fuck about rugby union anymore. Professional sports suck. It’s all boring as fuck. Same teams always on top, year after year, boring as fuck. I wasted so much time and money on pro sports - idiotic. I could give a fuck, but I love leaving my nasty comments on these videos, that’s fun. Later

[@matthewvanrensburg3824]

Not a fan of this idea whatsover. Basically what SR almost was when had Japan/Arg teams in it, was a mess, sucked and that was with travelling to places who watched rugby, going to places who dont watch it is stupid. F1 is a dumb comparison, they dont run races in nations who dont prove that they ALREADY have the fan base to support it. And IPL is an even more dumb comparison, IPL is the only successful T20 league and thats in a cricket mad nation, it has crashed, failed to kick off in almost every where else tried, they dont travle around the world.

[@jamesbester7520]

Saudi Sandcastles - the BEST name 🤣

[@Muzika_Gospel]

Hope not, but I don't see any way of stopping this

[@Tellemore]

Who do they think will pay money to attend games between the Bahrain Boomers and Qatar Q-tips, regardless of what squad of super-hyper amazing all stars they pick? At best you could run a couple of these games a year with low admission prices.

[@andreemurray7039]

You can't blame allayed being offered more money but I don't think it would work

[@TheDdvd1]

Money men want this, fans don't. They are pushing this to "build the brand" and claim it is for the fans. Be honest, just accept it is for the cash. I absolutely accept that excess of games that players have to grind through but that can be negotiated and fixed. You can do what the Irish do, set the number of games that the top tier players can play in a club season. You have 2 advantages, you take 10 games a season off the workload and have them ready for internationals. You then also have windows for younger players to get a game on a consistent basis every year. That is far easier to put together (because it exists in multiple places) than spinning to a franchise model which his hot garbage.

[@christianmccann9400]

Good luck playing rugby in 50 degree heat and all the flying