Is Shadowdark Really That Good?

[@Skulliver-t8q]

100% agree and I LOVE running this. The Cursed Scrolls content is fantastic, but the real stand out is the amazing value in a ONE BOOK game. Great community as well. I am so glad to have darkness and exploration be important and suspenseful in game again. This feels very much like the D&D I remember and love. It has a survival horror aspect and I think that, like in WHFRP, that makes survival feel like a massive win. Fights are fast, tense and can be scary. It hits all the notes I needed after years of D&D 5e.

[@MarkCherkowski]

Love, love, love running ShadowDark as a GM.

[@kgeo2686]

Do you find the simplified rules promote for MORE creativity from players? As opposed to the "I can only do what is on my character sheet or in the rule book" mindset.

[@MarkCherkowski]

​@kgeo2686 I have had to encourage it and draw it out of them. Dropping hints and suggestions. But yes it is paying off that way. ❤

[@kgeo2686]

@@007ohboyNot a dichotomy. An observable correlation. I’ve seen it myself and I’ve heard it said by many. It’s easy to see why it’s true in many cases. Thanks for sharing your deep analysis :)

[@kgeo2686]

@ tell that to “many” fans of Shadowdark.

[@IcarusGames]

Nope, not just a niche OSR perception. The idea that modern iterations of D&D had players focussing too much on their sheet comes up plenty even outside of OSR circles. In my experience, systems like Shadowdark and older editions of D&D (pre 3rd) do promote an environment when the players are having to think outside the box for solutions rather than rely on their character abilities on a more regular basis.

[@kquixotic]

I've run some one-shots in Shadowdark, and am so keen on running a long-term game in the future. I also use the random tables for injecting cool, weird things into other games. The random elements in the game also make it so I as a GM don't know what's going to happen, which is incredibly fun! Please make more SD content if you have the desire to!

[@IcarusGames]

@@kquixotic as I get more chances to play I'd love to make more videos if I have things to say!

[@jarydf]

Simplified DND is good. The sweet spot is having it simple enough that the DM can say yes or no to most things off the top of their head because they can guess the probability of the request ruining / derailing the game.

[@MalcIgg]

Absolutely agree with the fact that Shadowdark RPG lives up to the hype :) had loads of fun playing it in a group, a 2nd group with online vods on the Twisted Narrative channel (including some sci-fi hacks of the system), and have GM'd a short campaign, and yes then go on to steal bits fro other games & solo play too :)

[@brentnorton1602]

We have been playing since Kickstarter and have loved it. We used it for Keep on the Boardlands and now we are using it sand and sandal game. It brought me back to my love of B/X D&D style with a more modern rule set.

[@IcarusGames]

Ooo that's an excellent idea! I've got a couple of the old school modules lying around and running my players through them with Shadowdark would be a nice middle ground of familiarity for them!

[@ToddPutnam]

I couldn't agree more. Left 5E in the dust for Shadowdark during the Kickstarter campaign and haven't looked back. Gives me that Old School, gritty dungeon feel but with modern mechanics that are fast and easy to teach and play.

[@rikwilliams6352]

8:45 "bloody peasant"

[@marcushasopinions]

I had a blast running it, and it really made me think about how games are written and designed, and about how most TTRPG books are laid out not for ease of use but to show off the 'skills' of the graphic designers.

[@IcarusGames]

@@marcushasopinions absolutely everything in the book being limited to one spread (2 pages) is such an under rated design and layout flex!

[@NemoDtwenty]

Love Shadowdark for sure and love your review. IMO Shadowark occupies the general feel of Essentials Kit 5e or maybe OSE Advanced but it just more refined, faster, and easier to adapt than either. It deserves all the awards it has earned. I really like it as well as the Blue Box basic which I started with so many decades ago probably because of the polish it puts on 5e base mechanics. The best part is that there is almost no time wasted converting your bloated Wizbro 5e game into SD.

[@breakerpressgames]

Welcome to the darkside, Anto! Though I haven't run ShadowDark, it is on my "to-do" list. Still, before I even had the book in hand, I incorporated the torch timer into my Dungeon Crawl Classics games. Lots of other cool stuff in that book as well. Nice video.

[@IcarusGames]

It's been a lot of fun so far!

[@ArvelDreth]

Darkvision doesn't let you see perfectly in the dark. It just turns pitch darkness into dim light (with no color), meaning you have disadvantage on all perception and investigation checks. You can still describe a terrifying monster that constantly is shifting and skulking around in the black and white gloomy lowlight of a dungeon corridor.

[@IcarusGames]

All true. But in real terms, there's few situations where the lack of color makes a meaningful difference. A lot of the pre-combat tension comes from the unknown, from not seeing the creature. And while DISADV on perception does help with that, in 5e its easy to have a very high perception quite early, or find sources of ADV which counteract that. Every time I've had a 5e party that includes character without dark vision, we've been able to explore that tension to a much greater degree and it's made dungeon delving more fun IMO.

[@davidmc8478]

I absolutely love Shadowdark but managed to turn off my players. Warning to anyone transitioning from 5e to SD or OSE is to give your players a soft landing. Make sure there are enough characters in the party by packing it with a few NPC retainers who can die with style.

[@IcarusGames]

Yeah, I think setting expectations for exclusively 5e players is super important. I've got a couple of players with experience of 2e so know what to expect, but then the ones who are mainly experienced with 5e are much less OK with the idea of such quick and easy death 😂

[@metajock]

100% YES its better. We had someone who kept the stack of 3.5 books next to himself so he could min/max every single turn. (DM's son, took 20 min every time it came to his turn.) That's why we switched to Shadowdark. We love it, no more watching grass grow between turns. (He and his dad are gone, too.)

[@beldar1215]

Haven't gotten to play or run this yet, but I hope to early next year. I'm really excited to give it a try.

[@CanticleforRestlessness27]

Is it true that you once PRETENDED to cast True Polymorph on a cow, and instead just used Minor Illusion to sell cow poop? ... No, I can confirm that KelseyDark isn't that metaphorical cowpoop lie. It's good. It's shown was how all ttrpg could be better. The Dion herself is also a good example (a symbol?) of how people in the industry and hobby should be.

[@hauk119]

Minor rec, if you have the pdf, you can make your own zine! I like to print the cover of my little project on colored cardstock, and then the inside (so the tables/etc for you) on normal paper - I did that with the monster section before I got my physical book, as well as for the various osr adventures including the ones in the cursed scrolls

[@IcarusGames]

You know what, I'm so used to colour books and how crappy home printing is for colour that I didn't even consider that this was an option 😅 the book is all B&W so home printing from the PDF would be a breeze!

[@parttimed.m.1111]

It is amazing

[@Smittumi]

Is there a link to the vod of the session you played?

[@IcarusGames]

I've added it to the video description :D

[@Smittumi]

​@@IcarusGamesta.

[@zellak-pr7pu]

i run a greek mythos ShadowDark campaign. i'm not keen on LotR. so ditched all that stuff. Players are under so much pressure when the lights go out......its a great mechanic. Also i use a table to roll characters 1D20 gives you which Stat is a 18, which stat is an 8.... and the other 4 stats are 14. So the characters have heroic stats....but they still die. 3 of the 7 PCs were killed by a medusa a few games back.

[@agilemonk6305]

Great Video Brother Anto. ❤

[@NightNoonGames]

Great video and it's awesome to hear you're branching out more from 5e! However (and there is always a "however," isn't there?), you missed an important part about magic in the system. Monsters in Shadowdark are WEIRD, and as such, their magic is unknown to adventurers. The three spells you gave as examples of lethality, Power Word Kill, Cloudkill, and Disintegrate, aren't available to monsters. This is different from 5e where the monsters and players pull from the same list of spells. In fact, part of Shadowdark’s design philosophy is to avoid giving monsters abilities that will instantly kill a character because that's just not as fun for players. The highest level spellcaster (and second highest leveled monster after The Tarrasque) is Rathgamnon. Here is their spell: Abjure (WIS Spell). DC 13. Self. End any hostile magical effects affecting Rathgamnon. Abolish (WIS Spell). DC 13. One target in far takes 5d8 damage. Anchor (WIS Spell). DC 14. One target in far DC 18 STR or bound and anchored by chains of golden runes for 1d4 rounds. Gate (WIS Spell). DC 14. Open a portal at a point within near to another location on any plane. Lasts 1d6 rounds or until dismissed. Portent (WIS Spell). DC 14. Lasts 2d4 rounds. One target in near has advantage or disadvantage on all attack rolls and checks. Time Stop (WIS Spell). DC 15. Self. Time freezes for everyone except Rathgamnon for 1d4 rounds. Everything that occurs during the time freeze happens simultaneously when the spell ends. You can see that other than Abolish dealing 5d8 damage (something a PC can probably take if they’re battling a Level 19 baddie), there is nothing that just deals heavy damage like you see with Power Word Kill. And if any monster were to have a spell that powerful, Rathgamnon would be it! (And also, if a PC casts Power Word Kill, they treat any failure as a critical one, forcing a roll on the wizard mishap table, so there is a good deal of risk even with a spell like that one!) Monster spells also work the same way as PC spells, so once a check is failed, they lose the use of that spell for the day. This helps balance out the ability for Rathgamnon to cast 2 spells per turn because, even with a +6 wisdom modifier, they are going to fail a DC 13 spell like Abolish 35% of the time. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@IrisDImtv]

That's a nice "feeling" analysis! It's still possible to propose systems for future videos? I'd like a similar eye on Lancer, Mazes and Shadow of the Demon Lord.

[@IcarusGames]

@@IrisDImtv of course! Lancer is one that I've had my eye on for a while and am interested in checking out at some point for sure!

[@IrisDImtv]

@IcarusGames I just got the handbook and I'm trying to convince my player base into play it! P. S. Maybe it's not directly inspired, but as for roll mechanic and player progression (above all), to me it seems really similar to Shadow o.t.d.l. (I say this in a positive way), I'm curious of other opinions on the subject.

[@tisselégendes]

Nice review! This feels like NOT my cup of tea and I will not play it 😂 But, it's cool to see you excited about this game and the tables seem really useful! I've been trying out Avatar Legends and I really enjoy the Balance mechanic of the game. As a GM it's fun to set them in front of moral dilemmas.

[@IcarusGames]

@@tisselégendes it's definitely not going to be everyone's cup of tea (which is absolutely ok, and no game should be good for everyone!) But there's lots of useful stuff to steal in there for any fantasy game I think!

[@richardrdotson]

Stonewall. Nice.

[@simonfernandes6809]

Shadowdark is not easily available outside the US. I don't care how good it is, it's not going to dislodge 5e for myself or my group if neither my players or myself can get it. Same for Tales of the Valiant.

[@IcarusGames]

I got hold of it pretty easy in the UK. It shipped from the US but it was easy enough. And if you're playing via VTT the foundry system for SD is really solid from what I've experienced. But the purpose of the video isn't to convince you to switch from 5e, not at all! I'm just sharing my experience with the game. You and your table should play whatever brings you joy!

[@TheDave-bn2tx]

No

[@steveholmes11]

Level five, cloudkill, hitpoints.. Sounds like 5e to me.

[@IcarusGames]

All of those things have been in D&D for decades and are not exclusive to 5e. It's similar, but not exactly the same, to 5e in core gameplay mechanics, but different in tone. If I wanted to play high-magic heroic fantasy then I would stick with 5e for sure. But for something a little lower magic, more gritty, less superhero, while keeping a familiar core mechanic system, Shadowdark is a great option.

[@doomhippie6673]

I took part in the kickstarter but the game has been lying around here since then. in the end it's "just another D20 game" and I tend to stick to the original rather than trying more of the same. Plus I am beginning to be tired of D20 games and want to go back to the d100 games I played in the late 80s and 90s that are less class driven but more skill based. So Shadowdark came too late to really capture my imagination. I've played it once and it felt more goofy than any DnD game I've ever played. I originally wanted to get my gaming group into trying it out but most are reluctant - with the same reasons I have: why try a new d20 game if you already have a d20 game. I actually feel bad because I like both the creator and the idea behind the game. It just doesn't evoke any feelings of "this is going to be it" for me.

[@IcarusGames]

I completely feel you on the "I have the d20 system I like, I don't need another" vibe! For me, SD is tonally different enough from the way we run D&D to justify existing alongside at our table, but this is my response whenever people ask why I don't switch to X d20 heroic fantasy instead of D&D.

[@keithpogue6080]

You know it’s a solid review when the review is solid when despite the reviewer’s enthusiasm you realize it’s not a game for you. Thanks for this!

[@keithpogue6080]

Oops it’s a latte hour. - sorry for the repeating phrase above.

[@gordonfreeman6305]

I'm confused by "just another d20 game". Death in Space, ShadowDark, Dragonbane, Pathfinder 2e, D&D 5e - all d20 games, all play VERY differently in both one shot and campaign settings.

[@IcarusGames]

@@keithpogue6080 I think some people think when I review something I'm trying to convince you it's the "BEST THING EVER" and that you should buy it, but really in almost all cases I'm talking about it because *I* think it's cool or have something I think it worthwhile talking about regarding a product and am just bringing y'all along for the ride. If folks see this video and decide to try out Shadowdark, cool. If they decide it's not for them, also cool. So long as you're all having fun at YOUR tables, that's all I care about, and if I can increase that fun a little in whatever way, I've done my job!