Is Socialism Good for America? Politicon 2018 Panel ft. Ana Kasparian, Kyle Kulinski and Sam Seder

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The question strategists are asking is often no longer how the Democratic Party can appeal to big business, but instead, how they will deliver benefits like universal healthcare, affordable college, and justice reform to our people. Is it a no-brainer when it seems like we have endless resources for military hardware? Or is it dangerous utopianism in disguise?
Panelists: Ana Kasparian, Sam Seder, Kyle Kulinski, David Pakman, Bakari Sellers, and Markso Moulitsas

[@RadioTiberio]

Kyle is like a celebrity on this panel. He killed it there

[@eligio7907]

>Has NPC meme Yep we have an incel right here

[@aleeyh69]

Kyle - the voice of hope and reason

[@Discoursivist]

Kyle called Ojeda a leftist 😂. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just a progressive bot. Sam Seder, on the other hand, is a real thinker.

[@cloudfa1177]

Ana is like the one person who can interject into an argument and make a point that totally shifts the perspective to make sense to everyone. She is brilliant.

[@s-kazi940]

That's why she is a news host.

[@mikebanks2176]

Holy muffle fart , you have got to be shitting me

[@mikebanks2176]

@@s-kazi940 She is a News host because she’s nice looking that’s it that’s all

[@Tychoxi]

Rare sighting of Kyle's legs. Treasure the moment ye heathens.

[@CaptainFalcon]

You mean CGI legs? We all know Kyle hovers.

[@ItzSandman]

I love when Kyle hears something that sounds like bullsh!t and immediately calls it out.

[@tradewinds2319]

There will be helicopters There will be terra firma

[@bruceharvey8118]

THE DEMOCRAT PARTY BULLSHIT.

[@panzerbaren8997]

Can't stop that Kyle Driver.

[@panzerbaren8997]

Ben is not interested in debating he is into pivoting.

[@MAC_ABC]

Heyyy TYT... put Kyle, Packman & Sam Seder on TYT show on Monday as they are in LA. With Cenk & Ana. That’d be epic.

[@Angela-pr1mk]

hell yea!

[@michaelladouceur6832]

"That'd. be. oowsome" -Cenk

[@erikwsince1981]

Kyle will be on TYT. He’s also going to be on Joe Rogan’s podcast as well this week.

[@littleeark1]

M A Sam Seder is badass though!!

[@virtuosovip2]

Glad this panel was done, but sad to see a discussion about socialism without a single socialist in the conversation.

[@IvanIssaccs]

I swear Kyle could run for any office in the Country and win it.

[@craigrobb8197]

sure he can run now with those fake legs

[@TheJermajesty12]

“My last name is Morales!” “Okay my last name is Seder” Lol

[@redgladius9919]

You know all that excitement at the start was for Kyle.

[@Adam-th7qt]

Sam Seder, Kyle Kulinski and Ana Kasparian together is just mental. With David on top of that, it's just a dream team.

[@raulmcgangbang6890]

kudos to Ana Kasparian. The Kyle/ Kasparian combo is the ultimate tag team.

[@glowaru]

Kyle's in the thumbnail cause TYT knows how popular he is.

[@zackamania6534]

glowaru I'm here for Slammin' Sammy Seder

[@cmbsoldja]

Intimately, he's a part of their network FOOL

[@littleeark1]

Damn right!!!!!

[@fograw5]

weird how bernie sanders won west virginia against a moderate democratic candidate.......

[@deusvultron2893]

Incest tends to interfere with reason

[@dq9]

THE KYLEDRIVER!!

[@WH012Vids]

Loved Kyle Kullinski! He was awesome! Ana too! I wish David would have spoke more. But he’s seems like the more mellow type, opposed to Kyle who is always ready for a fight! Lol. He’s definitely going to let you know whether or not he agrees or disagrees lol. Which I love! Don’t let anyone get away with anything. I wish Sam could have kept the panel on topic. This conversation got sidetracked real fast.

[@kissedbyfirewyrms7312]

M A Seder is a corporate shill?? Bwahahahaha! Yeah, he’s in the pocket of Big “Harry’s Razors”. 🙄 Thanks for the laugh.

[@AZOffRoadster]

M A That's why he hired an actual socialist.

[@dremid4456]

Aww, Sam and Ana are my two favorite people in political discourse, what a treat to see them side-by-side here, love you guys!

[@enioleyva529]

Anna who? David who? Other two guys who? It's the Kyle show....biiitch!

[@conors4430]

unfortunately I think a real problem with the socialism capitalism debate is that people don't know how to separate the propaganda from the mechanics of the system. I am a massive lefty and sadly I think many American progressives that are advocating socialism are doing themselves a disservice. most of the actual policies being advocated wouldn't be called socialist. they could be called left wing, they could be called progressive, they could be called socially democratic but they aren't socialist under the definition of the system. the progressives and conservatives are arguing about something they both call socialism that isn't. socialism is nothing more or less than workers owning the means of economic production, capitalism is capitalists and private wealth owning the means of production. that's it. the conservatives don't realize this and sadly many of my fellow progressives don't seem to. there is nothing about dictatorship or anti individual in there and there is nothing about anti business. We can't have an argument about something when we can't even agree on what we are talking about. sadly the red scare propaganda of the cold war has done it's job in America because you are quite uninformed about this. calling your policies socialist when they aren't is technically wrong and also a shitty marketing strategy because you are scaring people with a label that is misapplied.

[@conors4430]

L D True, but that would exist in any system. So I don’t really get the point

[@conors4430]

L D clearly somebody can’t read

[@SagaciousNJ]

My takeaway from this is that Bakari Sellers can't be trusted.

[@Jacob-du5if]

kyle was the most intelligent person on that panel. Obviously he was the most popular but I think that's for a reason

[@markofcaine]

secular talk is amazing i wish jimmy dore was there

[@takkiejakkie5458]

Pakman is probably at least as intelligent, but just isn't as assertive.

[@Jacob-du5if]

Hihi Haha honestly I’m not sure. The more I watch his videos the less impressed with. Kyles ability to synthesize and convey information accurately and efficiently while remaining fairly objective (mostly) is a rare fear few possess which is what I’d define as journalist intelligence to the highest degree. Pakman also struggles compared to Kyle when it comes to framing an argument

[@takkiejakkie5458]

Maybe. I do think it is obvious Kyle is the person to shove forward for important debates and such.

[@jordan_a_white]

ATTENTION HEADPHONE USERS: use the left headphone only

[@raulmcgangbang6890]

Kyle is the sledgehammer of the left.

[@emiliano155]

dubtat I question your brain development

[@travisjones5712]

Bakari Sellers: "I'm probably the most moderate person on this panel." CONSErVATIVE, Bakari. The word you are looking for is conservative.

[@reverb13thh]

Love Sam!!! Was at this discussion. Lived in a socialist country which had healthcare for all and it works!

[@mysticmarble94]

Had healthcare ? What happened ? Also which country you lived in before ? Also .... If you knew the panelists. YOU would know they do not advocate for socialist countries

[@davidkirinic9463]

Kyle Kulinski dominated

[@SunDHamilton]

Kyle and Ana some of the few sensible people here. Daily Kos guy is ok. Question: WTF is David Pakman even here for? Sellers is just annoying

[@xxahugemanatee]

does ANYONE know where I can watch this without the horrendous sound quality!?

[@zephyrroyale]

Mandy H Seriously, did the original feed get destroyed, or what?

[@erikwsince1981]

Secular Talk already posted it without this audio problem.

[@xxahugemanatee]

thanks brother

[@zoomdaddyo]

Is there any question? I'll take Bernie's democratic socialism over Trump's Neofascism, any day.

[@soul4saken]

Kyle should become a politician

[@sandboxplayerz667]

Yes, Kyle sounded like a great politician, but as a political commentator Sam Seder was on another level. To be fair to Kyle, he was better than everyone else on the panel.

[@kevkokurz]

I can see why that guy lost his election.

[@zoralinman]

Kyle really has that energy of a great leader. His points almost feel obvious sometimes. He doesn't beat the bush. Anna was on point to and David I guess for what he contributed. the other two where examples of what we don't want. Dude said incremental change works smh... nah we done with that.

[@Andrew-py6hd]

The overarching point is that they all believe the same things. Kyle spent so much time talking over Bakari in some odd attempt to paint him as an “other” it takes away from what he says. We need folks like Bakari since he unlike EVERYONE else on that stage served in Congress. His POV is needed. We have plenty of space for everyone under our tent. What we need to do is push our voice-the socialist voice- to the front of the party and get the Bakaris of our ilk following behind us instead of us behind them.

[@zyrrhos]

"If the Obama years were such a great success, you don't get a Trump at the end of that." -Chris Hedges

[@leftybanks]

Bakari Sellers is basically a Republican that leans a little to the left.

[@eisenhowerrepublican4237]

I love him 😍 liberal republicans are amazing

[@itsStawny]

Moderate dems are basically left on social issues and right on war and economics

[@eisenhowerrepublican4237]

@@itsStawny Meh, not all of them, some of my friends that are in their late 20's to early 30's identify as moderate dems, they call themselves moderate because they're pro gun, pro tax cuts for SMALL business and the middle class, pro death penalty, and favor a more market based approach to healthcare instead of single payer. Besides that, they're liberal on every other issue.

[@leftybanks]

Itstawny That’s basically Republican. There are no other issues to call yourself a Dem if these issues are where you “differentiate “ yourself... pro gun and using healthcare, education for profit motives... let me guess. You also think prisons should stay privatized as well

[@griswold3006]

TYT's vid: Picture is okay, very orange for some reason. Super annoying humming noise. Secular Talk's vid: Picture looks like it was captured on a device that was manufactured in the past five years. solid. Audio, can't hear shit. Guys. Get your shit together.

[@JohnSmith-yd5wq]

That's correct. WHY didn't Politicon have a real live stream on youtube or their website.

[@mysticmarble94]

Yeah white is not balanced here .... Someone should rip the Kyle footage over TYT audio. That would at least get a decent result.

[@shoyugod]

Do we need to set up a go fund me for Politicon’s audio jfc

[@leealexander3507]

Apparently.

[@coladict]

Daamn! Bakari Sellers was a congressman for 8 years and he's fallen hook, line and sinker for all the corporate democrat bullshit talking points.

[@PittsburghSonido]

coladict bing

[@wolly9734]

David Pakman didn't really say anything throughout 90% of this, but Kyle was very vocal and got all of his points across really well, so it was a satisfying watch for me. Love Kyle.

[@MrBibi86]

*the audio is really bad.. very distracting*

[@ToxicTerrance]

This is the best version I've found. The one on Kyles channel is waaayyy worse.

[@JennetPreston]

Ana, under Socialism, the government would not make your shoes. Under Socialism, skilled workers would make your shoes, just as they do now. The difference is that those workers would own and democratically run the shoe factory, rather than working for a boss whose main concern is maximizing profits. Shoe factory owners motivated solely by profit, from Nike to Chanel, tend to exploit their workers and ignore the environmental impacts of their industry, dumping the toxic byproducts of leather processing in landfills, for example. As for innovation, capitalism often suppresses it, rather than encouraging it. In the pharmaceutical industry, for example, the big profits lie in medications that keep people alive but don't actually cure them. No one at Pfizer or GlaxoSmithKline is looking for a one-pill cure for cancer, nor do investors want to fund such research. They have flat-out said so. Most real innovation is funded, directly or indirectly, by the government anyway, and such funding would likely increase under Socialism. Too bad there wasn't a Socialist on your panel to explain such basic ideas.

[@petemoss7704]

Look, an actual socialist

[@mayeastrise]

You know that socialist countries were pretty bad at environmental protection and innovation?

[@mellonlord4616]

You know there has never been a socialist country right? You can call yourself an purple flying elephant but you're not a purple flying elephant.

[@mayeastrise]

Lbby DVR Of course, there have been socialist countries. Maybe not the kind of socialism that you think of but in all of these states the factories were publically owned.

[@kevin6293]

Or you just institute a minimum wage that’s a living wage. Then you have efficient companies AND happy employees.

[@theempyrean1227]

I know every case is unique but you don't have to point to Social Democracies like e.g. Sweden, but to Franklin D. Roosevelt's policies. Eisenhower knew that if he messed around with Social Security he'd be crazy.

[@CorbCorbin]

Tessmage Tessera He saw the future of the party profiting from the Cold War.

[@morgoth615]

I like how it's pretty much Kyle and Ana versus the rest of them, excluding David cause he seemed to be on some heavy ass Nyquil

[@livingtoaster1358]

I love big seltzer sellout Kyle he's my daddy nah but seriously he's the one who got me into politics and I'm grateful for that

[@parmesanstark2875]

LivingToaster13 lol he’s daddy?

[@suzannebennett8987]

It's really a shame that the sound quality is so dreadful on so many of these programs from Politicon. :(

[@warchiefttt64]

i know i thought it was me lol

[@kreitzberg09]

Yeah WTF

[@juliusc.8]

Shame Pakman didn't get to talk much.

[@Kaivtroll]

Proof kyle kulinski & david pakman are not the same person

[@brobocop8293]

they record this shit next to a power line ?

[@sokoysugoi2638]

That poor libertarian sat through the entire panel just to make Sam's day. "Excuse me, but have you ever heard of a program called social security? Do you see?"

[@Michael_Paul585]

I needed one "zero sum game" and i would have had bingo.

[@StuntpilootStef]

Next time, invite an actual socialist on a socialist panel and maybe talk about it for more than ten minutes? This was mainly about progressivism vs. moderate liberalism.

[@GlassThirdEye]

Kyle kicking ass!

[@biscuitmann5847]

Kyle is quickly becoming a celebrated political badass through authenticity and strength of conviction

[@jxsilicon9]

Socialism is working great for the rich. Can everyone else get some?

[@ariandme8689]

Oh this one's *really* got the trolls going! LOVED the panel!

[@alivewithpassion]

The audio is dreadful👎🏼

[@juliocesarhoyos4670]

The audio quality is great here.

[@hazyhalfmoon]

It's 1000x better than the recording on Kyle Kulinski's channel. Although its kind of odd how in Kyle's video, the stage is lit florescent white but in this video it looks like they're stuck in a room from Cube

[@123rockfan]

B4TT3RY I actually prefer Kyles video, the buzzing in this video is annoying as hell

[@bitterbreeze]

I enjoy listening to these debates, however I wish you could improve the sound.

[@sidneycato4903]

Where is the discussion on Socialism? I heard very little about a subject i really want to hear more about. Who's in charge of staying on topic?

[@travisjones5712]

That would be Sam Seder

[@deusvultron2893]

@Adam there ya go bud make fun of the opposition for using facts. That's how you get people to hear out your argument. oRaNgE mAn BaD

[@oscars3527]

Funny Bakari says “we need a D in WV” for what? For him to vote with the R. How is that better than a true progresive, even if he loses, he will plant the seed of truly fighting for what people need. I like Kyle’s approach. Tell it as it is.

[@cosmicwakes6443]

This isn't socialism but rather social democracy, capitalism with a welfare system.

[@kevin6293]

And yet they call themselves socialist, because they’re morons.

[@carloscisneros2720]

U wnt america to be like venenzuela?

[@cosmicwakes6443]

Venezuela is capitalist as 2/3 of its economy is in private hands and the lives of ordinary people have improved significantly since the Bolivarian revolution of Hugo Chavez, and its struggles is due to us sanctions and colonialism. Under the circumstances Venezuela is doing well. There are no socialist countries anywhere in the world today.

[@basketofdeplorables4253]

Kevin Myerson Venezuela elected Chavez under the pretense that he was a socialist. That’s the point. That’s how it always goes, some charismatic politician convinces everyone he’s going to bring goodness thru socialism, and then it all goes to crap and ends up just like Venezuela is now.

[@Kraisedion]

The first thing they said was that none of them advocate for socialism and that it's weird/funny that there wasn't a single socialist on the panel. They then made it clear they would be speaking about ideas from socialism they would actually be in favor of. You could just have watched the first minute.

[@realworldnews247realnewspr4]

They should have had individual mics. The sound was terrible.. Cheap camera with shit mic.. Hire a New Sound man and Videographer!

[@marklapworth1436]

next time TYT covers Politicon, PLEASE try to get a direct audio feed, instead of an echo-filled quite, noisy feed.....

[@bradgreen5938]

The audio is Awful this needs to be Reuploaded

[@tahsanchowdhuryrafat4122]

my ears gonna bleed from the zzzzzzzz noise, can't remember what it's called

[@下佐粉チャネル]

The ambient sound of hell, otherwise known as static

[@mo7881]

Alex Jones has hacked the audio

[@Thatturtlethatsaysmeanthings]

A true patriot

[@AZOffRoadster]

Mike Bonavia From what universe?

[@Thatturtlethatsaysmeanthings]

@@AZOffRoadster The Universe of Freedom! *Bald Eagle Screeches in the distance* *Machine Gun Noises*

[@tripcircuit3352]

every single one of these politcon vids has horrible audio.

[@Adeus1]

Kyle, Ana, Sam and David... Effin squad!

[@sulemanmalik8228]

Sam Seder should have directed some questions to David Pakman. He didn´t get to say a lot.

[@Squeaxx]

The audio wtf

[@fograw5]

this shouldve been titled "the joe manchin & barack obama debate"

[@aliensexist2639]

kyledriver!

[@paullymberopoulos2593]

Look at Kyle the rock star lol

[@iamzealot4262]

Kyle's and Ana's points right before the questions were spot on.

[@mtvandamme]

A discussion on socialism with no socialists. Not gonna bother.

[@Lobos222]

Social Democrats are not Communists, if that is what you mean.

[@horhay3608]

What exactly is wrong with the concept of workers control? Why this loyalty to private tyrannies?

[@mindremote]

GeekByDay StudByNight nothing it’s better. It’s just not easy finding the best way to accomplish that, but I think government programs that support coops are the answer. If we can get to a point where everyone has a choice about whether to work in a democratic or hierarchical workplace I think it will be pretty obvious what they choose. A lot of people still think socialism means the USSR and not worker cooperatives unfortunately.

[@nunder86]

The middle class was strongest when union membership was at its highest.

[@DaneMorgan]

I'm digging Mr. Kulinski here.

[@holistic_radical]

This panel unfortunately did not address a couple of larger issues: The main thing these folks have in common with real socialists is the faith they have in the state, that is, government as we know it, to enforce justice and help people. Thus not considering that the state is a 1000's of years old social machine who's main purpose has always been to preserve and protect the wealth and priveleges of a very few, by enforcing the subjugation of the vast majority of people. We'd be better off to always keep in mind that expecting any goverment to enforce justice is a bad bet. On the other hand, if we can get social democratic reforms, I'd be in favor of that, becuase people are suffering and any relief has value. The most important question this panel ignores is, why is worker's control of the means of production considered like something dangerous that needs to be limited in scope? Why do these people want to put severe LIMITS on economic democracy? Why are they FOR maintaining tyrrany inside the economic institutions of "private enterprise"? What is PRIVATE, anyway, about huge corporations that RULE the lives of millions???? I think there are some unquestioned assumptions there.

[@oddjam]

eclectic earthlover sorry but you do not know what Socialism is. I am a socialist and I believe in the abolition of the state. Socialists are not Stalinists, Socialists believe in worker ownership over the means of production, NOT government ownership over the means of production. Please do some reading, I have suggestions if you need.

[@hellotheir1427]

nobody wants to work at mcdonalds forever.

[@holistic_radical]

@Oddjam My understanding/memory of Marxist theory is that Socialism is a process of establishing justice and slowly building economic democracy, with the worker-controlled state playing a crucial role, working together with the grassroots worker's councils, that should gradually result in the withering away of the state, resulting in the final goal of a stateless communist society, where Marx pictured a person doing a wonderful variety of daily activities, in one eloquent passage. The big problem with the theory is expecting the state actors to not abuse power over all that long process. Consolidation and abuse of power happens much faster than that. Thus my point, that the State is a machine inheirently oppressive by design, and so not suitable for establishing justice. Thus, if we want a society based on sharing, we must struggle for it directly, and not see the state as a means to that end, but as a hinderance. If some understanding of Socialism agrees with that critique, then, cool.

[@Kraisedion]

@eclectic earthlover - It is very important to note here that the terms Socialist and Marxist are not synonymous. Marxism has had a large impact on socialist movements, and encompasses a very broad and varied group of socialist ideologies across multiple nations - but it is far from the only brand of Socialism. There were well established socialist ideologies before, during and after the heights of Marxism (Marxism also more specifically tend to refer to dialectical materialism, and is usually only a moniker for ideologies that makes this a central part of their framework, though other usages exist). Important to note: Marx himself did not argue for vanguardism, that was at the time more associated with Blanqui, who Marx did not like. This is also why many Marxists had an issue with Lenin from the beginning. The establishment of a vanguard party is purely a feature of Leninism. Of the major non-Marxist ideologies you have the broad spectrum of Anarchist and Libertarian Socialist ideologies, who opposes the state and instead argues for direct democracy, liquid democracy or in more moderate instances, a small civic state (you can include Liberal Socialism here as well). The only ideologies that actively want the state to own the majority of industry within State Socialist spectrum - which some Democratic Socialist ideologies are. Of course, there is also the question of what the state is. The libertarian side of socialism tend to view the state as the government and in terms of how decisions are made, i.e. there is no state if you have direct democracy - this doesn't mean property can't be collectively owned by society - but this is of course not what all socialists argue for. The socialist scope varies from worker ownership/control to collective/public/social ownership/control, to user ownership/control, to no ownership/control to only public control, not ownership (i.e. modern Democratic Socialism) to mixed systems. Some socialists, like Marxists, want to transition to a social economy/high communism/post-scarcity anarchism, but many do not, and simply want worker/collective ownership within a market economy (for instance). Liberal Socialists, as an example, often argue for worker run industry and a separate civic state - not a transitional period. Hope that clears things up a little.

[@holistic_radical]

@@Kraisedion No, no, no, you are so wrong... Oops, just kidding. The contentious 'net disease tried to infect me for a second. Very interesting. I was aware of bits of that background. Thanks for the information! I am just disappointed that oddjam made such an oversimplified and dismissive comment and then never got back to me. Of course, I like the libertarian socialist (and anarchist) views a lot. I don't feel the need to get scholarly about the history and theory as much as you apparently do. Kudos! I do frequently try to make people on comments sections aware that a quick trip to Wikipedia will show that "libertarianism" only means limit government, give capitalists free reign, in the US, and is about a variey of smarter and more humane views elsewhere. The people I try to tell that do not seem interested, at all.

[@marctouss1862]

kyle is savage man.. he goes IN!.. that's why i love the guy..

[@ZachValkyrie]

Damn! Kyle can't turn off the badass!

[@cloudyskiesnow]

Bakari Sellout and Marcos "Ban all the progressive users from my site" Moulitsas are the worst. It's astounding that they're so eager to defend the same shitty approach that has cost the Democratic Party control of every branch of the government since 2010. If you can't recognize that the time for incrementalism has passed, you haven't been paying attention. I don't have 40 years to wait for things to get marginally better.

[@chetzmom65]

Mini Sam, David Pakman, should have been the moderator. He doesn't want to be in the discussion, and Sam is quick to chime in with his opinions.

[@yam83]

Correct.

[@JC-fp8wy]

Was David Pakman on this panel?

[@chumberger]

Yes

[@JC-fp8wy]

Could have fooled me

[@AZOffRoadster]

Too polite and soft spoken for this format.

[@beastemeauxde7029]

Once again, Politicon with the *GARBAGE AUDIO!!!*

[@artestra]

omg Kyle actually DOES have legs

[@iinovatv5676]

They're just cgi

[@stevejoseph4514]

It's a mixed economy. The military is funded through socialism, healthcare should be socialized and education is publicly funded (obviously other than private schools). It isn't complicated. But the right wing rhetoric has created a negative image of socialism, when in reality most of the best parts of our country runs on social policies.

[@davidschlessinger9945]

that's why our utilities should be socialized; internet; our workplaces should be democratized, perhaps socialized;

[@IncognitoSprax]

Whoever uploaded it should of removed that annoying noise. It's not hard, any spectral audio program can do it.

[@keontaewilliams5145]

Sprax Politicon accepts bees now.

[@philipgage1072]

Kyle and Ana - dream ticket!

[@megg.6651]

I'm sorry, but NO ONE, GOP or DEM wants their representative taking corporate money....unless they are a corporate executive.

[@KTF0]

It's really inexcusable how bad the audio is. There are podcasts with shoestring budgets that have better audio quality than this.

[@tylermarty8048]

It's better than the video Kyle put up

[@ThuckBuddies]

[Radio announcer] Politicon: Brought to you by the people who brought you Tanacon.

[@ericpmoss]

Ana and Kyle get it -- the Republicans don't navel-gaze, and they don't compromise ahead of time. And they kick our asses.

[@fl00fydragon]

eric moss Thing is that they are "middle of the roaders" That's why their effectiveness is limited. The truth is that what we need is a viable alternative to capitalism to be brought into the political debate before AI lets out a massive amount of the population unemployable.

[@AZOffRoadster]

fl00fydragon Social Democracy, evolving to Democratic Socialism with the onset of automation/AI. We better start now, as we are already behind the ball.

[@fl00fydragon]

@@AZOffRoadster Agreed, if we keep things as they are or get satisfied with catching up with Europe then we're going to implode. AI is set to cut 37-38% of available jobs by 2030 (sources: Oxford and the PwC respectively) and it won't stop there. We're already having an inexcusable state of affairs where raw production is above the capacity required for a sustainable post-scarcity planet while poverty is rampant, soon we'll add mass unemployment multiplying the poverty to make the rich astronomically powerful on the back of a suffering planet. It's what I've been saying for quite some time : this period to 2030 is the turning point of history, either we'll grow out of capitalism or we'll end up in either an unbreakable oligarchy or outright extinction.

[@dudeman5303]

Let's also take note, bakari is using the conservative talking point that we "need to leave the constitution as it was originally written" like its some holy text. Two of the most cited founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin, tried to get through that the constitution should be rewritten every 19 years to make sure it would always be up to date with the ever changing populace. Right wingers think they know so much about the founding fathers, but they have never opened up a decent history book in their lives.

[@anarchostalinist4390]

Absolutely. Apart from that the 28th amendment issue is probably the dustiest plain in the history of slippery slopes: First of all, it's a vastly popular, hyper-specific and comprehensive provision (i.e. on the issue itself there's absolutely nowhere to "slide down to" from there). Furthermore, the Republicans would rather have Obama's name tattoed on their balls than treat the constitution as some work-in-progress PDF (after filling the SCOTUS with crazy originalists) and turn every single future debate about constitutional amendments into a penalty kick for pointing out their own corruption.

[@his202class7]

Merrick Garland voted same as Kavanaugh 93% of the time. How is he better?

[@nathanlynn2010]

He's not. He was a corporate piece of crap. I didn't mind Gorsuch because he was at least a Constitutionalist that wasn't any worse than what he was replacing. Kavanaugh is partisan slime though and it was immorally forced into the seat when they could have just picked a better option without the alcoholic baggage.

[@travisjones5712]

Abortion, I guess. But any SCOTUS nominee that's going to come from an establishment president from EITHER party is going to be pro-Citizen's United. We're trapped until we get real progressive politicians in office. Sell out Democrats aren't going to get the job done.

[@deusvultron2893]

Kavanaugh baby. Get fuckin used to it commies

[@ongobongo8333]

He wasn't openly willing to disregard the constitution and let his friends commit treason

[@Davie404]

Kyle is a rock star

[@RadioTiberio]

It’s a shame David Pakman didn’t get a chance to speak much

[@fograw5]

kyle seems to be the only one with actual evidence to back up their talking points

[@jackmaguire1158]

Brian Tan no he’s not he’s just the loudest

[@fograw5]

loudest or the one with the most evidence.......however you want to frame it

[@kaedenparten9126]

There is an actual difference you realize....

[@fograw5]

@@kaedenparten9126 oh there's a difference?!?!? 😲😲

[@Maru7en]

Jesus Christ lol

[@xxturbodonk555xx]

I'm for whichever political ideology that fixes the buzzing noise first.

[@ZachValkyrie]

I second the motion. With a vengeance.

[@his202class7]

Why was David Pakman on this panel when he said almost nothing?

[@sherryspectre217]

Kyle....YES!

[@benbradley8445]

Wow no shout out to David Pakman in the title

[@benbradley8445]

Never mind, just watched the full thing and David said almost nothing, so the exclusion is appropriate

[@skepticmhv]

This pannel was really awesome. The only thing I disliked was the random applause that was a little bit distracting. I guess I just don't like the fact that the audiences at politicon (and, more generally, the fact that people watching discussions about politics) is largly driven by the entertainment value of debates rather than just focusing on the ideas and arguments.

[@pauldavis1963]

Pakman is so quiet in this panel.