Is SONGS OF CONQUEST 1.0 Really That Good? Gameplay REVIEW

[@Smirk1979]

I hope the devs see this video because it made me feel good about purchasing it, while giving deep well thought out critiques on areas that could be enhanced to bring up the overall quality of the experience. Thank you again for another amazing review!

[@magnusalm6419]

The devs sometime indulge in self googling. We did see it ❤

[@amazingkool]

I think the best thing this game has done is given outsiders like myself a way into the genre. I was never going to play the old HOMM games, but a Sseth video and the really cool campaigns got me into this game. Now it did take me 3 attempts to "get" the game/genre and really get into it, but I've been having a blast ever since. Looking forward to the custom scenario games and then normal AI games after I wrap up the last bits of campaign. My only complaint is the wielder skill system really should have some sort of tree / prereq list somewhere in the codex. Also they should point me to the codex more, on that third attempt I found it and it made it much easier to understand what was going on. I think the problem with that second point is the menu option says "tutorials/codex" and I wouldnt click it because I'd already read the tutorials as they popped up, why would I look there for wiki-adjacent content? Possibly a product of 3 separate forays into the game, not sure.

[@amazingkool]

I'd also note as a new player, 4 fully realized factions seems very reasonable to me, especially in context of each having significant campaigns. Much more digestible than say 8 or whatever number the HOMM community is used to / expects. If I had to analyze what all the troops did for that many factions, I think I just wouldn't bother and would likely just bounce off the game.

[@Bostero_1905]

Hola, personalmente soy nuevo en los juegos de estrategia, oi hablar tanto de HoMM3 que lo compré en GOG pero tengo que decir que al no haberlo jugado nunca antes, gráficamente no me pareció lindo, además estaba en inglés (soy de Argentina) intenté ver varios videos para tratar de engancharme a el juego pero no hubo caso, no le tome nada de cariño porque no soy de la vieja escuela como bien dices en el video, asi que buscando por ahi me encontré con Songs of Conquest y me enamoró su estilo gráfico pixel art, asi que inmediatamente lo compré en su acceso anticiado, el arte y su música me parecen geniales, al haber jugado poco y nada a HoMM3 la jugabilidad de SoC con límite de tropas me parece muy estrátegico, es algo que me encanta, estoy muy feliz de que al fin tengamos la versión 1.0 y que mucha gente lo mencione y haga videos sobre este juego, pieno de la misma manera que tú, si bien sólo son 4 facciones el equipo de desarrollo respondió a varios comentarios diciendo que planeaban agregar mas en un futuro asi que también estoy esperanzado con ello, en resumen para alguien como yo que no vivió el tiempo de HoMM3, Songs of Conquest es un juego maravilloso, me gustó mucho tu video, dejo mi pulgar arriba, merecido like

[@Eu_Sunt_Dracul]

lovely and informative video. thanks for showcasing the game dude.

[@BlackGold-fc7tu]

I've been enjoying it. Some of the campaign missions are much better than others. I like the 4 factions (frogs are my favorite) and am excited for the upcoming faction dlc. Can't wait to explore all the community content - seems like a lot of high quality maps to explore

[@FalkFlak]

I like the game but I agree it feels "samey" pretty fast. I miss the city screen, though (also miss it in Civ, lol) because it's an effective way to hide a rather big city behind a map while also use it as a menu (also i looks way better), it's not clumsy at all. The "cities" in SoC look like tiny hamlets instead. The pixel graphics are pretty although I would've liked it more if they tried to mimic the more "clear" pixel Art of games like HoMM2 which are cleary more readable.

[@danlowe]

Good review. Ironically it sealed me not wanting to play it. Only thing I was on the fence about was custom campaigns but at this point I need to stop using other people's games to make stuff and just make my own game. As we all should when these mod support suites keep being put into games

[@kcw1879]

If you like HoMM 3 or 5, we find it GREAT. Also, multiplayer includes coop.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Yeah, I definitely should've mentioned co-op too ^^

[@rush48192]

Thanks for review i bought it, because it will run with out a gpu so no issues playing on my laptop

[@robbiebrewer3362]

I like the game although it feels like it's lacking a lot of content for its price tag For the factions it feels like one or two are missing, spellcasters are powerful a little to powerful, no voice over/voice acting for campaign can really make the experience dull and disappointing. The thing that's holding it up is the art style and gameplay throughout both PVP and PVE, to me it's negatives are outweighing its positives

[@thomoose4647]

I think you missed a huge aspect of judging these type of games. As someone who also plays mostly PvE the game's AI is a major reason I continue or stop playing a particular title and I didn't hear you mention anything. Does the game even have difficulty levels for the other AI's and maybe talk about how good are they. Do they just waste wave after wave of armies at fortified positions like the AI in Age of Wonders does? Do they respond differently depending on level?

[@Ic0nGaming]

Thanks for mentioning! I usually think AI in games is always dogshit compared to a human. I really think easy and high difficulty levels only influence how much cheating the AI can do and in the end I never really "rate" an AI in games like these. Usually I rate more how much fun it is to tweak and "abuse" a system until it hits enormous power levels and then I check at which point the AI keels over. In this game I haven't made these experiments yet, but I still have yet to find a game with an enemy AI worth talking about. All in all machines never have the ingenuity and creativity of humans and it's always somehow cheesable. So I'm very sorry, I cannot really give you a good answer to your question. I hope you understand though why I didn't focus on the topic too much =)

[@wolfshanze5980]

@@Ic0nGaming Ugh... what a non-answer! Okay, we can all agree in 2024 AI isn't human-smart in strategy games... we know this... but we can still spot a totally useless AI from a somewhat competent one, and this is where we need(ed) an answer. As a FINE and RECENT example of a PvE type game in this category, I look no further than Age of Wonders 4. This is a game that has very blatantly obviously had TWO completely different AI's in it's year-long existence on this planet. On launch, AoW4 came out with what I can describe as a truly dog-sh!t AI... pardon my French. I LOVE AoW4 and think so much about it is awesome... but on launch, it only took me a few games to realize the AI was completely useless, did nothing, sat around, and mostly waited for you to win with anything from the worst to the best strategies... it just sat there and waited for you to win... it was so bad, I literally quit playing a game I would otherwise have loved to play, that's how bad the launch AoW4 AI was. What I found even more fascinating, only a few people seemed to realize it... reviewers raved about the game, it had a huge positive rating, and I only saw a few people and a couple reviewers who pointed out just how bad the AI was. If it really wasn't a problem and nobody but me noticed it, I'm sure it would never be addressed or fixed... but it did get fixed, and in a very noticeable way, but much later on... it wasn't until the recent "Wolf Update" with the Primal Fury DLC that the AI was dramatically changed for the better... it was OBVIOUSLY a new AI that actually played the game the way you'd expect a human (or an AI pretending to be a human) would. Is it "gee I can't tell the difference between an AI and Human" level? No, of course not, but it's finally in the "this AI is as good as any other good AI in 2024 and a fun opponent" level. I literally quite playing the game soon after release and kept checking if the AI would ever get fixed... it wasn't until the Wolf update that the AI eventually got fixed, and... like the OP said... it isn't overall game balance in a PVE player that determines if we stop playing or keep playing... it's the competence of the AI that makes that call... i'd agree with the OP... i'd like to know more about the AI in this game!

[@Ic0nGaming]

​@@wolfshanze5980 Huh, I honestly never rated the fun of a game upon it's AI quality myself. I mean I played a lot of Age Of Wonders 4 myself and never had the impression the AI had much changed since the release until now. I guess we all have different filters on what we are most focused on . I mean I play 4X games basically since Civ 1, Master of Magic/Master Of Orion and I'm used to AI being mostly dangerous caue it has more resource than I have. I guess I personally zoned out eventually from that factor and moved more into what's fun in terms of "build creation" and unit dynamics. At the end, I always grow tired of the AI in games likes these eventually. Thanks a lot for your inspirations though, it just never crossed my mind to analyze the AI behaviour that detailed. But since it's something people are interested in, I will keep an eye out on that myself. o/

[@xq10xa]

Ic0n is the best

[@FilmGamerHUN]

Sadly really not balanced. Magic Heroes are so strong here with 5-6 spells per turns. Also there are trick tactics. You can set 1-1-1-1 troubadours pr Necromancers or turtles and they can use their skills multiple times in this way. Thats why many many fans waiting for balance patch now for pvp. For campaign and skirmish the game is really great! But in beta form in PVP i think now Silence of the Siren is in better form already. Its a Scifi Heroes 3-4. But Heroes 7 7.5 mod is really great now with 13 factions! Ubi may killed Heroes but fans ressurected in that mod its like HOTA twice! :D

[@Ic0nGaming]

Yeah like I said, I'm no PvP player at all. I thought that there would be enough %magic damage reduction skills to invalidate magic damage cheese strats. But honestly I'm a fan of real time PvP so I play this one for the PvE alone ^^

[@ПавелРазувайло]

Totally agree, PvP lacks significant balance changes. Rana is super dominant for last couple of years of development

[@snuffinperl8059]

cool review!

[@Hashupa]

If I had a nickel every time that Ic0n covered a Songs Of game, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.

[@katafalkas1]

No proper campaign. No town screen. Devs overly focused on balance. I think I'll skip this game

[@Ic0nGaming]

The last point I can agree upon, the first one not. The campaign might be "only" twelve missions, but it's well made and has given me a good time. One might want more, but it has a proper campaign to play. And no town screen is something I can understand though. At the end of the day nobody so far managed to get the oldschool HoMM hype back on the menu. They all lacked something for me. In this games case it's definitely too balanced, I feel that one too ;)

[@diego2817]

Playing rhe game right now... It id good but OMG, the story campaign and the woke characters id s let down rhat tried to remove my immersion. I just fight my self to avoid looking at the woke trash content

[@Ic0nGaming]

Hm, as somebody who dislikes "woke for the sake of woke" myself I didn't see that issue here. Cecilia is a believable character, just happens to be a woman in charge. Heroes Of Might & Magic 4 also had a really good female led campaign. I've seen WAY worse and in this case it goes nicely along the story. I dislike unnecessary DEI myself a lot, and I can't agree sorry. Or would you like to elaborate what's pissing you off? But please keep it civil.

[@diego2817]

@@Ic0nGaming had to disagree, still on first campaign and I only see woman powa, like any new modern game were protagonist are 90% female Marie Sue characters. A leader won't get respect by saying this is mine, a leader shows how to lead with the example, a true hero... What we have here is a another woke and bad written character.

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@diego2817 Dunno, I found Cecilia if anything not a Marie Sue but somebody who tries too much to be the tough leader in charge. Act 2 is led by a male protagonist who gets to be the prophesized hero of the story. Even the guy who gets his head chopped off right at the beginning of the Arleon story does end up freeing the first Rana slaves. Making him an important part of the Rana Rebellion - girl powa where? This story is far from being "only female driven". I don't know, you just seem to point at things while overlooking clearly arcs that are far away from "girl powa" shenanigans. But well, I'll stop trying to convince you - I just think that the devs here wrote a compelling and cool story and I don't know why we get all fuzzy about gender policies everytime there's a lady in charge with masculine looks.

[@mazanakaUA]

Nothing new to the combat? That is simply not true. There's *plenty* of things new and different. And if you really played HoMM before you'd know that. You can't mix units from different factions. Meaning, you get what you pick at the start, and that's it. Your opponent also knows what to expect. The magic system is completely different and even more powerful than in HoMM. Wait-baiting is not a thing anymore. Morale and luck mechanics are not there either. Ranged units have limited range. Zone of control is now a thing. 1-stacks and doom-stacks are less viable and hero recruitment limits and army size tied to hero skills make a massive difference. Also on "this game can be micromanagement heavy"... No, it really isn't, not in general and especially when compared to the predecessors it takes its inspiration from or other 4x strategy games. Besides that, a typical skirmish match is very different from a campaign map.

[@Ic0nGaming]

Well the combat isn't fundamentally different from any part of the Heroes franchise. And thank you, I have the physical copy of Heroes 1 still lying around from my childhood days and I've played that series until part 6. So yeah, it is a wonderful fresh take, but I don't really know why you act out like I'm talking shit about the game. I'm praising and loving it. And cool on you that you don't find the late game micro heavy, for me it felt like that. Guess you are cut different than me. I don't get your general vibe of offendedness though, I respect your different opinion nevertheless.

[@mazanakaUA]

@@Ic0nGaming I could nitpick this video minute by minute, but my overall point would be that it doesn't describe the game well at all. I wouldn't even think of trying SoC after watching this, if I didn't already (or if I had not followed it since very nearly its announcement...). This is just a disservice to the devs and the people who'd have given it a chance otherwise. Which I wouldn't be bothered by in case of any other game that much, if not for the fact that among many failed and forgotten succesors to HoMM, this is the closest to the best thing that happened in 20 years, and it deserves more people trying it and devs getting their due.

[@Ic0nGaming]

@@mazanakaUA Then go forth, make a video about my crappy video, I've heard you fully that you dislike my work. Now there's not gonna be anything new to this topic. Now have a nice day and I'd suggest spending less time on videos that are not good enough for your standards. I did my best and I'm genuinely sorry for doing the devs such a disservice o/

[@ramenpirate]

@@mazanakaUA I dont understand the aggressiveness in that comment, but I'm genuinely curious about the counter to this video since I've only scratched SoC on the surface and would like to know it from different perspectives. In this sense I would like to see that nitpicking too, but in a respectful manner please. :)

[@mazanakaUA]

@@ramenpirate Funny thing is, I wasn't trying to be aggressive. I wasn't insulting anybody. I wasn't getting personal. And how else was I supposed to express that I do dislike the video? The author of this video, in my eyes was responding in much more passive aggresive tone. Language (English is the third language for me. Mostly self-taught too) and culture barriers are "fun" that way. Especially when you only see text, not hearing the voice. But also, annoyingly it seems that the internet culture has changed a whole fucking lot in the past decade as well. Feels like people online walk on egg-shells even more than they do in real life. Used to be the opposite. As for the game-I have too much to say on it, and youtube already "ate" one of the comments I wrote, so I'll just recommend SsethTzeentach' review of the game. Despite the memery, it points out differences from HoMM series, the reason the game is as balanced as it is , and makes a better job of selling you the game. There are also plenty of other reviews in text and video format on the net already, not hampered by barely passable language skills.

[@surg23]

Soon as these types of games stop with the retro graphics/animations I'll start buying them.

[@OrangeNash]

Agreed, though like a fool, I bought it. Has some nice ideas, but the map is blockier and hard to read than HOMM1. And the point of pixel graphics is that they are easier to produce than 3D models. Yet it only has 4 factions. After a few hours, had me going back to the earlier HOMMS. Not sure why developers go to the effort of paying homage to a classic, adding a little, then taking away a lot.

[@surg23]

​@@OrangeNash Yeah I don't think I will ever understand the retro phenomenon, which is weird as I was a gamer in the 90's. Graphics, just like nostalgia are superficial until they reach one extreme or another. One such threshold resulting in ill-defined and unsatisfactory visual representation of entities. Having visually incoherent content makes about as much sense to me as a marketing emphasis for nostalgia. I'm not even sure if that's their angle here, but in doing so either intentionally or as a developmental resource limitation, they've narrowed their target demographic quite heavily. Not a terrible thing by itself if this was developed with a purist mentality, but it is a problem when it results in a struggle to differentiate between two game entities. Eye-strain and general dissatisfaction is the end result for me. And as you alluded to, the game overall is still relatively shallow in spite of this. I don't mind the art style, but not when it can't meet the bare minimums of fidelity needed to visually navigate the game with any sense of enjoyment or appreciation. I find it hard to roleplay and feel pride in a unit comprised of so few pixels and animated so poorly that it might as well be a blinking square on the screen. Conversely I don't see many drawbacks going in the direction of serviceable or even nice graphic design.

[@crepooscul]

@@surg23 Age of Empires 2 looks better than Age of Empires 3 and 4. Sorry, but it became an art/design style. I actually think that most 3D is piss ugly on top of tanking performance, and it takes a true master and great funding to nail it. I even think that Dominions 6 looks better than a lot of 3D games with massed units just because the sprites are nice. There's a reason all these indie companies do not go for 3D usually: it would look like dogshit. See Against the Storm for what I mean

[@danlowe]

Replying to multiple comments here. I'm only interested in it BECAUSE of the pixel graphics. I can't stand flash art and prefer Japanese Nintendo style over 90s western RPGs. Pixel art was never easier to produce, just easier to render. With some AI generation workflows it's no longer true and pixel art like any style can be churned out in minutes but when this game would have been in development and all the years prior, pixel art was an act of art curation and care for those of us who like that style. It's not truly retro, more of an appeal to a style that was minimized in USA while it was growing in popularity alongside the anime that popularized it. "Super deformed" refers to a particular geometry which isn't in Songs of Conquest but the practice of exaggerating bodies to conform to a particular style seems like the reason why people choose this kind of art in the 2020s