Is SPAN Panel the Wrong Choice for All-Electric Homes?

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@hobartspitz1029 3 ай бұрын

We don't have a capacity problem. We do have free "nights" (10 hours). This panel seems to make sense, even for the price, in these ways: (1) Identifying when, where, and how much electricity is being used. (2) Immediately shifting of loads equiped to do so and confirmin the change. (3) Load shifting of non-smart devices. (4) Replacing an old, out-of-code panel. (5) Preparation for a solar + battery system. (6) Automatic software upgrades.

@MissingRemote 3 ай бұрын

Great points. Thanks for sharing. 1) FWIW, you can do 1 for less than $200. Emporia Vue is a great option. 2/3) SPAN only "shifts" loads for the appliances it supports, it's just flipping the breaker for everything else. That isn't really "shifting" except in the most basic sense. There are cheaper solutions to this problem. 4+6) Retrofitting a cool piece of kit in is always fun :). I love the concept of SPAN, the price and lack of integration options makes it hard for me to buy in, personally. 5) We recently put in a couple hybrid inverters and 28kWh of battery (ESS) for ~$7,000 (after fed rebate) that. Something like that would have much better ROI for the "free nights" thing. If you're AC coupling, a panel might need to be replaced to install PV+ESS, but there are ways to do it without that (assuming your panel is up to code).

@hobartspitz1029 3 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote All good points and useful food for thought. Just to clarify, our plan is to shift loads by setting clocks (e.g. pool filter and cleaner) and smart switches (e.g. air purifiers). Circuit level load shifting would be a "last" resort. I didn't know that integrated devices existed, so I really appreciate your mentioning it.

@Dead_Aim556 9 ай бұрын

I’m building my own home as owner builder and have the same issue. Nothing including batteries and their corresponding ATS can handle the 400a service

@MissingRemote 9 ай бұрын

I need to do an update on this post (www.missingremote.com/blog/2023/10/passive-house-electrical-system-design-beta) to explain our new system design, but this explains the fundamentals of our design. The newer version has an additional 15K and battery. The loads I want to shed on the "Smart Loads" sub panel from the 3x 15Ks. Right now, that's just EV charging. We should have plenty of inverter and battery to manage the other loads for multi-day outages.

@chrisgeary4624 4 ай бұрын

Im also looking at building a passive house, though probably not certified, and I’m surprised you need 400 amps. With the much smaller heating/cooling loads, and assuming really energy efficient appliances, I would thought 200 amps would be sufficient, even for an all electric house. Just starting to research, though.

@MissingRemote 4 ай бұрын

It's certainly possible to build a highly efficient home on 200A (SPAN could make that easier), but in general EVERYTHING in a passive house is electric. It's easy to see how you get past 200A when you add up the induction cooktop that has a 50A circuit, have a couple 30A heat pumps, 40A for the oven, 30A for the ASHP water heater, a 48A EVSE, etc. Our numbers are harder because we're building an ADU (apartment above the garage) that will have its own ASHP, water heater, range, etc.

@macmovieman1 5 ай бұрын

I heard they just released the SPAN Panel 48 in Mar 2024 but it wont ship till Q4. I think I want to get it and I dont think we are going to have any issues with the 200A load.

@MissingRemote 5 ай бұрын

Are you retrofitting or new build?

@macmovieman1 5 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote Retrofitting. We have a new HVAC system/heat pump going in tomorrow and two tesla's. We have solar and Tesla two powerwalls.

@MissingRemote 5 ай бұрын

@@macmovieman1 If you don't mind, LMK how it turns out for you if you opt for a SPAN panel.

@macmovieman1 5 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote i’d be happy to update you and I’m definitely holding off for the 48 because I currently have a 32 panel and I’ve had to move six additional into a sub panel and I’d prefer to have it all in one panel and it will give me some room to grow.

@yourelectricman 2 ай бұрын

Do you sit there and explord all options and functions of your microwave. You probably wont with youf electric panel either. Who has time. Such a waste. Wait till the computer blows or a control relay goes out. Now try to find someone to troubleshoot, repair , replace, and at what cost. What money did you save then. Simply, just use less electricity. Same as solar, cost efficency does not add up.

@hectorarcelus6602 2 ай бұрын

What do you think about the Leviton smart panel?

@MissingRemote 2 ай бұрын

If you have a Leviton panel, and want to make a few circuits "smart", it looks like a solid option to get monitoring and some load shedding. The biggest issue with it is that the breakers are very expensive ($100-$350/unit) compared to a standard breaker ($6-$100/unit). Which can be fine if it's just a few circuits, but if you're doing a whole home, it's a massive difference. The other thing is that Levitron panels/breakers are proprietary. There are good benefits to their design, but it means you're locked into their ecosystem. So it depends a lot on your goals and budget. The project cost for using Levitron in our case killed it early in the research phase (which is why I have a video about SPAN, but not one about Levitron ;)).

@hectorarcelus6602 2 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote I did like the surge protection. I am installing solar with a string inverter (power wall 3) and I thought it would be good track my usage, but the cost.

@MissingRemote 2 ай бұрын

@@hectorarcelus6602 If tracking is the primary use case, you can get an Emporia Vue that will monitor 16 circuits for $200. I'm planning to put one (or two) in every panel to get usage.

@hectorarcelus6602 2 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote Please let me know of your experience with that product.

@MissingRemote 2 ай бұрын

@@hectorarcelus6602 I reviewed the previous generation Vue 2 (kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHvWdHijaN6mh7c).

@TerryOtsubo 2 ай бұрын

I'm glad I watched this.

@derekdrew 9 ай бұрын

Invaluable insight A lister youtuber

@Ice_Solid Ай бұрын

SPAN is my only option. To go from 100 amp to 200 amp is $750k. Span and batteries is way cheaper.

@MissingRemote Ай бұрын

Could you explain more around why the service upgrade is so expensive? That is 10x the high end of "normal".

@clintjohnson7023 2 ай бұрын

I dont know i think its all b.s Lets say someone has a span panel installed but they have no plans for installing solar panels or generator and have total electric house

@MissingRemote 2 ай бұрын

Sorry, I don't understand your question.

@clintjohnson7023 2 ай бұрын

@@MissingRemote my question would be. If your just replacing your existing panel with a span panel. And not adding a batter back up or solar or a general would there be any advantages to just installing a span panel. I think not. So I'm asking would there be an advantage if so please list.other than the fact you just purchased a shiny new very expensive panel.

@MissingRemote 2 ай бұрын

@clintjohnson7023 How SPAN works and what it provides are in the topics that were covered in the video. It might be worth rewatching to get your questions answered in more detail. In general, SPAN's value prop is that it lets you add more electrical devices (e.g. EVSE) without upgrading your service. Another of the topics that was discussed in the video is when this might make sense, and when it wouldn't.