IS STARSHIP TROOPERS PROBLEMATIC?!

Starship Troopers by Robert A Heinlein caused some controversy upon its publication and continues to be contentious amongst readers. Another Sci Fi Classic review.
🌎 Join the Discord / ​ko-fi.com/kdbooks
📸Add me on Instagram / / ​
🎙For business inquiries / [e-mail]
🎥Get a free month of Mubi : mubi.com/t/web/global/pPCf-YIF
📈Join Wealthify to start investing & get £25 - invest.wealthify.com/refer/92...
#booktube #bookreview #bookreviewer #bookish #bookrecommendation #bookrecomendations #scifibook #scifi #scifireview
STARSHIP TROOPERS BY ROBERT A HEINLEIN BOOK REVIEW

[@tedpikul1]

Philip K. Dick said something really cool (and very relevant) about Heinlein. PKD, who is rarely accused of fascism, was friends with Heinlein. PKD said, more or less, that Heinlein was a military man through and through, but he was also one of the best persons he’d ever known. PKD loved his friend RAH.

[@ericdoberstein8872]

The philosophical debate in Star Ship troopers is about taking responsibility for your actions and paying a price for socially destructive actions. To win the right to vote you must volunteer for government service, (not necessarily military service, Rico's friend Carl signs up for electronic research and there are labor battalions as well), there is no draft and every body has the right to volunteer. There are many discussions on this theme in the book. But my major interest in the book was the tactics practiced by the Mobile Infantry, (also known as the M.I.). As a person interested in military history I was fascinated by Heinlein's idea that since the advent of fire arms infantry formations have become more and more spread out. The M.I. take this to tendency to spread out to an extreme level. In there powered armor and armed with tactical nuclear weapons a half mile distance between soldiers is considered a shoulder to shoulder formation. In the movies based on Star Ship Troopers they actually fight shoulder to shoulder so this aspect of the book is not explored at all nor is it looked at in the computer game which is based on the movies and not the book.

[@ericdoberstein8872]

Should have been "their powered armor", sorry

[@Kartaljuzin]

I'm on my sick leave. So excited to binge watch all of your videos

[@bmaei5]

Thank you for mentioning how nuanced this novel was on the topic of war. Unfortunately few readers are interested in ambiguity these days.

[@schribbler1592]

It's legit sad how little people know about what Heinlein was actually talking about.

[@jakeaurod]

_Starship Troopers_ is a great book. I actually read it for a college course in Political Theory. I don't think it's fascist, but that depends on your definition of fascism, and that term has been used and abused a lot over the years. If I remember correctly, there isn't a lot of detail in the book in how the Terran government is structured or run or how parties operate, other than one has to serve a term in Federal Service to be eligible to vote or run for office. Much if not most of Federal Service isn't even military. And one becomes a citizen AFTER they serve their term, not during their term, so the active duty military are not in government and do not control it. Business and commerce are open to all people, Rico's father wants him to learn the family business instead of joining up, suggesting that the ties between government, military, and business that typify "fascism" aren't present. Another aspect of "fascism" is nationalism, but there does not appear to be much nationalism among the cultures of Earth. Johnny Rico speaks Tagalog, so he's probably from the Philippines (I'm not sure where he actually went to high school), meanwhile some of his family travel to Argentina, and he trains in North America (Canadian Rockies and prairies, I think), while singing French and American patriotic songs. People of different cultures serve in the same training unit and active duty unit. Some of them highlight differences in their knowledge base which may sound stereotypical (like the Asian knowing martial arts), but these are celebrated. Unlike most instances of fascism, the overarching culture depicted is multicultural and inclusive. (This aspect of "fascism" is somewhat ironic since the term originates from a bundle of sticks that symbolized strength through unity, several different groups uniting into one. Although in this usage, unity may be achieved through erasure of differences. Something similar seems to happen in the military, hence the term "uniform", but in my USMC experience it's about adding a new uniform identity, history, and culture, not erasure - but actual a fascist military might use erasure.) Some might think the war with the arachnids displays xenophobia and nationalism, but the opening battle (with the Skinnies, not the Bugs) and their orders to limit casualties to try to compel them to change allegiance, shows that the government's view of aliens is more nuanced than "Humans Good, all others Bad". Johnny Rico joins to impress a girl and thoughts of glory. During the book he realizes it's actually a job (unlike how it's often sold to recruits as an adventure or to achieve glory in the real world). Then, he comes to understand it's service, literally a choice to serve the people for their benefit (not to rule them for your own benefit, as fascists promote). One note on the video. I suspect the Terran government would be more than "a few hundred" persons.

[@theramblingreviewer5150]

I read this when I was younger and I remember really enjoying it. This is a fascinating discussion you have here and I definitely want to reread it, so that I can make my own thoughts.

[@urbanagoge7598]

Finally someone who has given a fair read of one of my favourite books! It is indeed a philosophical treatment of violence, conducted, mostly, in a classroom setting. If you wanted to argue against mass murder and genocidal wars, it's a good place to start. The movie, though it points out that the Terran Federation is run on very fascist lines, does take out all the nuance of the book and in that does more harm to an argument against xenophobic fascist ideals than good, in making it like a cartoon. Read it and make your own mind up.

[@liambutler6971]

The one I’ve been waiting for!!!!!

[@jeffhall2411]

Favorite sci fi author of all time. Read every book he wrote.

[@rtj6874]

Curious to see if you pick up on the satire or the knowledge that Heinlein himself said that in order to understand Starship Troopers you have to also have read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Stranger in a Strange Land" or else you will never understand what he was trying to get at.

[@david124cherrington5]

Heinlein fought in WW II is not quite correct. He fought as a civilian in WW II. He was given a Medical Discharge from the Navy for TB in the 30"s. He worked in the Philadelphia Navy Yard during the war.

[@RyanNightTalks]

great book

[@wardragonprime]

The book starts with the Mobile Infantry attacking the Skinnies, not the Bugs.

[@user-ht9bd7zo6t]

Thank you. That was "bugging" me...

[@nedmerrill5705]

Hooray! Great book, great author! Only veterans of the armed forces can vote; only they are _citizens._ It's controversial. I think Heinlein gets short shrift with sci-fi aficionados today (at least with some on KZbin). This is a fine review - I need to reread this book.

[@KDbooks]

I haven’t seen much talk on Heinlein in here? I’ll do some scouting

[@miroo4097]

Not veterans in the book they specifically say 5(ish)% of federal service jobs are military. The entire point is you can only truly appreciate the power of your vote if you aren't willing to provide even a short term sacrifice. Literally the only difference between civilians and citizens is that citizens can vote and run for office. It's only controversial if your misinterpreting (which you just did), ignoring the book or forgetting segments of the book and letting that bullshit movie fill in the blanks.

[@BrandonsBookshelf]

Watched the movie with my dad in a hotel when I was way too young to see the shower scene and then later that night I had a nightmare of being pulled back into the cave by the big bug...that's my only context for this story

[@user-ht9bd7zo6t]

Has no resemblance to the book; read the book.

[@NerdyNurseReads]

Please read Stranger in a Strange Land next...thank you.

[@KDbooks]

Do… you like that Heinlein?

[@NerdyNurseReads]

@@KDbooks I did and then I didn’t and I need to talk about it with someone!!!

[@popndrop1200]

Finished this one today after years of having it on my list. Forgive me for disagreeing, but my interpretation was different. Love the movie and think its fine they just took some ideas. If you like the book and don't like the movie. Just read the book, and enjoy it; It has many excellent parts and ideas. Good book review, hope we see more! Spoilers Ahead: Although the protagonist is challenged throughout the book by his teacher, his father, his recruiter, his sergeant and all the officers that followed, the character is always rewarded for it. The recruiter, for instance, does all of it as an act; in the next part he is unrecognizable to Rico as a cyberman and congratulates him on his choice to join Mobile Infantry. His teacher that discouraged all, simply does so to weed out those he would deem unworthy. He sends Rico his most cherished item and praises him throughout. Even his father eventually joins just because he thought his son was being more of a man than he was (and he lost his wife, I know). All of the challenges the military gives him is usually just part of the program to produce the most effective soldiers. Robert Heinlein was truly enraptured by the idea of military and its possible solutions, this book provides many good cases for war, or at least how a war-like society might function. The book does not focus on anything interesting around the universe in it unfortunately and simply skips those parts to focus on its philosophy, which is generally just: "Naked force has solved more problems than any other factor in history. That's why you need people to be ready when it happens". The alien races and "humans in space" angle is sort of pushed to the one side in favor of the philosophy. Even how this system came about is brushed off to focus more on how this is what people want. Rico is virtually the only character in this book, and doesn't really change, he only calcifies deeper into the system. This book is pretty boring once you get the message about a quarter of the way through. The intro was awesome; the book could have used more shoulder mounted nuke launchers in action and less lists of general's names from history.

[@KDbooks]

Different interpretations are the best part of talking about literature ♥️

[@liambutler6971]

I get a mention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@KDbooks]

This is proof I have friend

[@liambutler6971]

Love it!

[@liambutler6971]

You need to watch the film now 😂

[@brianshea2515]

I haven't read the book in 30 years, and I quite liked it when I did. The thing that could be fascist about it is: You must be a Veteran to be a Citizen Only Citizens get to vote, and define how the society is shaped. Soldiers go to boot camp, partially for physical fitness, but partially to mold the mind to take orders. This implies that all Citizens have been conditioned to follow. Not all will stick with that mind set after leaving the military, but it makes it a greater than average chance that the voting block will continue to vote for that which they are told. I did not understand that when I was 17. I need to reread this, and see how I feel about it now.

[@user-ht9bd7zo6t]

You misunderstand it; definitely reread it.

[@Rogue_VI]

The book is fantastic. The movie is trash.

[@OverlyAverageBen]

The film Starship Troopers is absolutely brilliant! I love it so much for watching it way too early as a child and then rewatching as an adult and realising the whole film is beautiful, beautiful satire

[@Phatman2167]

The film is trash. Having read the book several times before the movie was made, watching it was extremely painful. Paul Verhoeven wanted to make a move with Nazi's in it and he took this book and rewrote it to get what he wanted. He went WAY beyond poetic/dramatic license. The only thing the movie has in common with the book besides the name is the characters names. Nothing else. Case in point: DIzzy Flores was a guy who dies at the end of Chapter One and wasn't a high school buddy. Another point: Johnny Rico's real name is Juan Rico, and he's Filipino. But Verhoeven wanted his Nazi theme so we got Casper Van DIen, Brown Hair and Hazel Eyes. Perfect for a Waffen SS stand-in. I could go on, but I think you can get my point.

[@kosatochca]

@@Phatman2167 why did you read this book multiple times? I sincerely don’t understand what value it holds. It’s filled to the brim with intrusive philosophising which would seem rather boring on the second read, when you had already got it all, wouldn’t it?

[@Phatman2167]

@@kosatochca Intrusive Philosophizing? How so? Give me you interpretation and where in the story it is going on?

[@user-ht9bd7zo6t]

The film Starship Troopers was only worthwhile if you were looking for tits and action...

[@johncrwarner]

It is well written by a good author but it is for me too militaristic and too elitist / fascistic in the structure of the Terran society The Terran society and government is designed for war and so it would be in perpetual war as a result. These raise deep problems for me.

[@miroo4097]

Only 5% of Federal Service is military service. It's not facist it's a republic. Meaning elected leaders with restricted suffrage. The only way you can be rejected from FS is you can't mentally understand the oath. The military officers frequently speak out against senseless violence. This isn't elitism or facism it's a Meritocratic Republic. Look at Juan's family who has been filthy rich for generations and takes pride in not doing FS.

[@voteforalan]

I had to stop watching this video after 2 mins because of how many things you got objectively wrong about the book. Basic facts about places and characters. So much so, I legitimately wonder if you actually read the book at all.

[@KDbooks]

like what?

[@jackwalter5970]

Heinlein was very sexist and narrow-minded. I don't think his work holds up.

[@KDbooks]

What’s works of his have you read?

[@jackwalter5970]

@@KDbooks Stranger in a Strange Land and another one I can't remember the title of. Something about a man and woman switching bodies.

[@miroo4097]

The most sexist thing he does is acknowledge women are attractive to young men and women should be in the navy sense they have better reaction times etc.

[@spazzmalone]

I have read quite a lot of Heinlein and as you go down the Rabbit hole that is his collection, you will find an obsession with incest. Great writer but kinda creepy.

[@iasimov5960]

Heinlein's premise is that incest does not exist if all defective genes have been culled from human DNA.

[@user-ht9bd7zo6t]

I have read most of his work; you are full of it. If that is all that you get from his work, put down books and stick to tv like a good drone.

[@spazzmalone]

@@user-ht9bd7zo6t You are a liar and not very good at it. Did you read "Time Enough for Love"? No, you have not. How about this classic "The Tale Of The Adopted Daughter" Again, no. You will absolutely love the character of Maureen. I have read EVERY single thing Heinlein has EVER published and a few not published, On REDIT there is an article called "My Degenerating Relationship with Robert Heinlein" It covers all you need to know. Buzz off twerp!

[@mimi31268]

I really like sci fi. thank you for this review - it was so well done, as always 🪁