Is Tesla's HW3 Falling Behind? Testing FSD 12.5.4.2

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[@DirtyTesla]

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[@AyahuascaDataScientist]

Boooo. Boycott Dirty Tesla!

[@jstar1000]

I have a 2019 Model 3 with HW3 and paid for FSD, I want an upgrade damnit! FSD has been awful most of my ownership until about a year ago or less. Hands down should get my cameras and computer upgraded. Back when I bought it it was suppose to make my car go up in value and be totally worth it. I would have been way better off putting $6k into Tesla stock and not bought FSD, total rip off in my opinion with a lot of promises never delivered.

[@Thalassophile-ll3ll2kn2x]

You own FSD and you own a 2019 Model 3. Two different things. FSD will always change with technological improvements, however you cannot say the same about the hardware in a Model 3. The car is now 5 years only and in another 5 years it will be 10 years old. Unless you expect you car to be constantly upgraded to have the same abilities of a modern car then what you are saying does not make sense.

[@BillBadMule123]

Yes I agree ? Unless Musk finds a way to upgrade your HW3 car so at some point in time it can drive fully unsupervised FSD you and others in the same boat got ripped off bigly

[@Apemania69]

agree, they should make FSD a license u can move to any new car, also upgrade the car to make it work as it was promised by tesla!!! im in the exact same boat like you

[@jstar1000]

@Apemania69 I'm keeping mine until it dies so moving FSD is not an option.

[@Dave-ei7kk]

@@Thalassophile-ll3ll2kn2xI have a 2018 M3P and FSD. We early adopters were told that we would get any hardware upgrades that might be necessary to ensure that our cars could Full Self Drive. We were even teased with our cars probably being worth $30K more as FSD became a reality and we could place our cars in Tesla’s robotaxi fleet. And I’ve now been an unpaid beta tester for the FSD software since it was first released to owners with a 100% driver safety score. So I’m disappointed that I still don’t have what I paid for but hopeful that Elon will keep his word from the last earnings call when he said that Tesla would make things right for HW3 owners by providing a hardware update if that proved necessary for unsupervised FSD.

[@NaughtyGoatFarm]

Some of us have HW3 cars that are only just over a year old.

[@TailosiveEV]

I appreciate you Chris for being the most level headed balanced FSD tester online. You credit it its amazing performance but acknowledge the shortcomings. We need more channels like you

[@aromano2000]

The latest version on hw3 has horrible breaking for no reason at Green lights. I've also had several interventions where the car disregards red lights on occasion. Sometimes it happens after the car has stopped and other times it just seems like it won't stop at a red light. These behaviors have been very prominent, beginning with version 12.5.4.2. The green light/ red light behavior seems to be totally random, which is particularly unnerving.

[@RONderluck]

I completely disagree. There was no breaking for no reason that green lights for me. Maybe it was your demographic.

[@gtibbot]

Same issue with slowing/stopping a green lights on latest sw.

[@RONderluck]

@ I have never had that issue at all. Stop trolling

[@aromano2000]

@RONderluck with all due respect, I've been enjoying fsd since October of 2021. It seems I'm not alone with the issue around green lights. I'm glad you are not experiencing it. I only posted because I believe that folks from Tesla watch this channel and it's an issue that should be looked at. I am not "trolling". Have a nice day.

[@gtibbot]

@@RONderluck No Trolling here. We have two M3LR's, one is a 2019 the other a 2022. Both cars exhibit the same issue on almost every drive on the latest sw.

[@agreener]

Thank you so much for making this video. As a 2018 M3 owner who has had FSD from day 1, it really concerns me that Tesla isn’t honoring the original promise of what I purchased.

[@BigBen621]

They *are.* If you bought FSD originally, and it turns out that HW3 won't support FSD (Unsupervised) (AKA SAE Level 4), they have committed to upgrading the hardware. I can't see how anyone could expect that Tesla would know 5-6 years ago that FSD (Unsupervised) would run on HW3, when it wasn't clear either how computing hardware would improve over the following years, or just what it would take to run FSD (Unsupervised). But they're being candid that they're not now sure if HW3 *will* run FSD (Unsupervised). And if it won't, they'll upgrade the computer to something that will. I don't know what more you could ask.

[@claytonmcsweeney9499]

@@BigBen621the cameras are the limit I think even if they upgrade the computer they can’t upgrade the cameras for every single hw3 car.

[@SteakSawSr]

@@BigBen621I also have a 2018 M3 with FSD. Elon said that HW3 would be upgraded to HW4 if they can’t achieve better than human performance on HW3, but didn’t give any timeframe to that. I’m worried that they will perpetually be “working on it” but we’ll never get a retrofit. I’m ok with lagging a few months behind HW4 features, but we paid for full FSD before anyone else and it seems we’ll be the last to get it.

[@joedulin]

@@BigBen621 How long will it take to determine IF HW3 will run unsupervised? How long will it take to finally pull the trigger on the upgrades should they (likely) be needed? How long will service centers be backed up trying to get upgrades in? Am I looking at being stuck with the jankiness of 12.5.4.2 for 3 years? 4? 7? I don't doubt that either an upgrade or a class action will sort things out, but I am quite curious how long the customers that got things where they are today will be left behind and how awful our experience will be in the interim years.

[@BigBen621]

@@claytonmcsweeney9499 _they can’t upgrade the cameras for every single hw3 car_ Tesla has already said that the HW3 cameras are adequate for FSD (Unsupervised).

[@ryry17354]

I will say, I would like Tesla to at least send out a release to smooth out the issues for HW3. The previous version was so much smoother than the current build. I get phantom braking all the time, random braking, and slowdowns at green lights. It's having a tough time deciding whether to go through a yellow light or not. It also struggles with figuring out which lane to be in at intersections, like determining what is the turn lane and what's the straight lane. It's still having issues with speed, usually always going below the posted speed limit or right at it.

[@go_ofyy]

@ryry17354 lane selection has been painful, the car would be in the correct lane to exit on the right. Then 0.2 miles before the exist (with no one if front sometimes) indicates left and try to change lanes. My wife missed her exist on multiple occasions because of that. So she always manually exists now

[@matejovich]

​@@go_ofyy fair but still light-years ahead of all other car co's

[@go_ofyy]

@matejovich i dont accept the excuse of tesla is better than any other car. I don't compare elites to peasants, i hold tesla to a standard that tesla itself set. And when i see them slipping, as an investor and consumer i have to hold them accountable

[@georgepelton5645]

Exactly this. I am experiencing these same regressions on my HW3 cars. Although 12.5.4.2 is better in many respects, these new problems make using FSD less enjoyable, and I can't use it with my wife abroad as much. An upgrade to fix just these issues would make HW3 much more acceptable for daily driving. Interesting that Chris says his AI4 cars don't have any of these annoying issues, and he recorded this before V13. Looking at V13 videos, it sure makes buying a new Tesla and transferring FSD to it look super attractive.

[@matejovich]

@@go_ofyy you aren't wrong. I bought my 18 MS Sept 1 2024 and it was awesome. Then the software update happened. Now it sucks.

[@go_ofyy]

Stop signs into oncoming fast traffic has been exceptionally dangerous , i always take control in those situations on 12.5.4.2

[@BitJam]

I have the same problem with that version. Exceptionally dangerous. My car stops well before the stop sign (as per usual) but then it accelerates into the intersection without checking for traffic! I've also had it try to pull out from a stop sign and cut off someone who didn't have a stop sign. Exceptionally dangerous.

[@go_ofyy]

@BitJam yep same behavior hear on my 2023 model y, i made sure to recalibrate cameras multiple times clean them... no difference i have an intersection like that 30 seconds from my house stop side cross traffic 45 ( people obviously go faster) the car stop hesitates ( i usually disengage at that point) and jumps into oncoming traffic. So now i always take control at these stop signs. That means not 1 single drive has been 0 disengagement since i got 12.5.4.2

[@BitJam]

@@go_ofyy I'm glad I'm not the only one!

[@allisterbullock213]

Hi Chris, AI5(HW5) is just around the corner, I wouldn't expect Tesla to offer a AI4 upgrade (partly as it doesn't physically fit) but they could design HW5 physically to fit both previous generations. Food for thought 😊

[@jonathanblackwell42]

The moustache sticker on the steering wheel is just funny :)

[@ukstudent1]

Just saw it after I saw this comment 😆.

[@dteitsma]

I was hoping someone else saw that!

[@randolph229]

At the slowdown at 5:25 FSD thought that dirt in the road was a speedbump. I've noticed that same thing regularly in an area I drive .

[@robertgamble7497]

I have a 2018 long range rear wheel drive (with hardware 3) if hardware 3 is not gonna support full self driving (the true full self driving) then, I expect when hardware five comes out a hardware five car will roll up to my door and say please accept this vehicle as a direct exchange for your HW3 vehicle. Once you register this new vehicle, we will come and pick up your old car. Thank you for being a loyal Tesla customer.

[@garrymullins]

Did you pay for FSD?

[@Thalassophile-ll3ll2kn2x]

What is true Full Self-Driving? In 2018, it was sold as FSD Beta, and now it’s marketed as FSD Supervised. It will likely remain an ever-improving technology for an indefinite period. I can understand wanting or getting the FSD transfer, but I can’t understand people expecting a modern car or upgrades to match whatever new hardware capabilities modern cars may have. Is this supposed to go on in perpetuity?

[@floxer]

@@Thalassophile-ll3ll2kn2x They sold it as "Full Self-Driving Capability". That is what that software option was called on the website for years. When they first added that option to the website in like 2016 it said this: This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat.

[@JeffKubel]

​@@Thalassophile-ll3ll2kn2x In 2018 it was sold as "Full Self-Driving Capability". That's what's on my order. Once the car is capable of full self driving, that's when the perpetual hardware upgrades stop.

[@catbert7]

Prepare for disappointment.

[@xsleep1]

2020 MS here. My biggest problem with 12.5.4.2 is in town. The constant speed-seeking (on-off-on-off the accelerator), although better than the .1 version, is so annoying I have given up using it there. Freeways, as you noted, seem fine. Two lane highways also seem fine with the occasional brake for no reason (again, as you demonstrated). The late turn to exit disturbs my wife so, if sh'e in the car I tend to cancel it and exit manually.

[@Drucio1]

my sister got a 4/23 HW3 model Y a month before they changed lol. Ive been using it for past few days and its terrible compared to my 2024 HW4 Model Y. Such a huuuge difference.

[@MCAN]

Version 12.5.4 was beautiful. I was yelling from the rooftops about how wonderful it was. It was the first version with which I felt completely comfortable sitting back and letting the car drive for me without stress. Now with 12.5.4.2, I find myself screaming at the car regularly. I’d estimate I have to disengage every 45-60 seconds. It brakes hard at green lights, gets very nervous around parked cars on the side of the road, and slows to a crawl when cars in other lanes stop to make a turn. One time it decided to turn right when other cars did even though the route was to go straight. It’s awful.

[@Maxwellinator]

I have had very similar experiences.

[@Rcm23195]

As of 12.5.5.x, my hardware 3 FSD has been AWFUL! It worked fine before, dare I say amazing on 12.3.6 and 12.4.x, but 12.5.5 literally STOPS FOR GREEN LIGHTS. All the time, consistently. Such a regression, it's awful. General acceleration jerkyness is worse too. Very disappointed.

[@Glenhh]

If you combine this with a conservative hate message on X Musk will likely read your tweet and maybe tell the team to fix it…I wish I was kidding 😂😅💀

[@nimasahabi9421]

I 100% agree. I just bought a new model 3 and I have FSD 12.5.4.2 and it’s significantly better than 12.5.4.2 with HW 3. On my HW3 car, 12.3.6 was significantly better. 12.5.4.2 keeps phantom braking at green lights and is just way too hesitant. They need to fix this.

[@aromano2000]

The behavior around lights is random and unnerving. I've also had it take off while sorting at a red light before it turns green. It has started with the latest software.

[@Rcm23195]

@@nimasahabi9421 I found that 12.3.6 wasn't necessarily perfect, but it was CONSISTENT at everything it did. Didn't really hesitate much, never phantom braked, I loved it. Going to the 12.4 felt like a compromise, as it was better for acceleration, worse in other areas, but for the "touchless" wheel, it was an OK compromise. 12.5 has been nothing but problems. If I could go back to ANY older version 12, I would.

[@paulrybarczyk5013]

Ditto with my HW3 Model S. Tentative and lurching speed control now, plus too much phantom breaking near intersections.

[@sensavita]

I own 2017 model S. I live in the UK, and FSD is not available here yet. I upgraded my infotainment system as it was old and lagging.Tesla upgraded my HW2 to HW3 for free as part of the upgrade. Now, they are offering to upgrade all my cameras to HW4 cameras for free.I am impressed by their gesture as I only have enhanced autopilot. Probably, they are going to do the same thing for all HW3 owners soon to have a better experience.

[@DatSuKid]

Can we get a confirmation screenshot or quote about that "offering to upgrade all my cameras to HW4 cameras for free"? Customer service reputation in the USA and California seems... not as good as that surprisingly cool claim for your UK experience.

[@user-dt8hh9ni4r]

@@DatSuKidthey already said cameras cannot be upgraded. They said the computer can be upgraded though

[@robbarrett1204]

In the Q3 earnings call, Elon stated: "Hardware 4 has really several times the capability of Hardware 3. It's easier to get things to work with, then it takes a lot of effort to sort of squeeze that box analysis at Hardware 3. And there is some chance that Hardware 3 is - does not achieve the safety level that allows for unsupervised FSD... And if that turns out to be the case, we will upgrade those who bought hardware 3 FSD for free [as] we have designed the system to be upgradable." This gives me a bit of hope. For a second I considered getting in to a Model 3 Highland and take advantage of the FSD transfer option (until end of 2024) but seems like a crazy expense at yet another promise that might not even happen with HW4

[@Mark-kt5mh]

I personally decided to get a highland Model 3 and transfer my FSD. It's honestly a completely different vehicle and I can't recommend it enough. Every single complaint I had with my 2021 has been fixed

[@sails180]

I have an early 2018 Model 3. I’m not falling for Musk’s BS twice and blowing a pile of money for a new Tesla when I have a perfectly good drivable car. After I got my car it didn’t take me all that long to figure out that most likely the computer, HW, processor, cameras, etc wouldn’t make it to true FSD. Like Chris I don’t believe Tesla will update all the cars with new computers, HW, etc. If they possibly do it would take a long time to happen. Anyone like myself that fully paid for FSD should get it for free for life if they ever buy new Tesla’s.

[@Gabrilos505]

These are great videos to fall asleep too. I love watching FSD and seeing it evolve, but the drives tend to be so damn peaceful that when I have imnsonia I come here just to get my brain motivated to shut itself off

[@DarrenDaoust]

My HW3 car is terrible in the the dark on rural non-lighted roads. It seems it just can't see good enough. It'll start to make a turn and then stop half way through in the middle of the road and require intervention. It's also super jerky at night in these turns. During the day these same roads are no problem for it.

[@joedulin]

Don't feel too bad, it is just as awful in the city with street lights.

[@Maxwellinator]

I have had same problems.

[@jdkc4d]

I guess I'm just frustrated because my HW3 MYLR is not even 2 years old. I can't afford to just buy a new one.

[@Sidewinder1009oli]

I love all these developments and love to see it working like this on random streets. In reality, and in the UK, all I really want is full hands free navigate on autopilot for Motorways (highways)

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

Tough being a HW3 owner and missing out on software updates, but, practically, current HW3 software is good, and, eventually, a software update will come.

[@LordStevie]

Or, this is as good as it will ever get, without a computer upgrade. You know Elon will drag his feet on that!

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

@ Until there’s a solution, expect every quarterly meeting to include a HW3 question to Tesla.

[@joedulin]

It's a very tough sell to say that it's "good" - I can't make it a mile from my house without some random quirk popping up. Phantom breaking, stopping at a green light, choosing the stupidest speed possible, jerkiness... No, I wouldn't even call this software adequate or acceptable.

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

@ Our FSD experiences differ. Hopefully, we’ll both see improvement.

[@matejovich]

​@@joedulinthere will be other versions..they are not stupid people, they understand the problems with the current interaction.

[@FabyRamone]

Yes, this pretty much sums up my experience with my 2018 Model 3. Random slow downs for no apparent reason, uncomfortable tapping of the break here and there, harsh breaking for yellow lights, significant slows down or even stopping at green lights, a lot of hesitations taking off when a light changes from red to green, jerky steering wheel at low speeds (especially in parking lots and left/right turns). It is definitely more capable than 12.3.6 but not smoother. You can clearly tell Tesla is not putting the same amount of effort compared to HW4 versions. What would really help is some clarity on timelines on when HW3 would get certain features. For now, we just don't know and it's disappointing as an FSD owner since 2019.

[@gtibbot]

Very similiar experince with 12.5.4.2. The slowing/stopping at green lights can create dangerous conditions for cars behind me and none of the previous sw versions have ever had this green light issue.

[@FabyRamone]

@@gtibbot Yes, with 12.3.6 I started resting my foot instead of hovering over the accelerator but with 12.5.4.x I had to start to hover again because of the risk of being rear ended, combined to being more aware every time the cars goes through traffic lights.

[@maverickscarberry9844]

I have the exact same thing. And it’s annoying because I think it was two updates ago that everything felt better than it ever had and was great but now it’s so much worse lol. I’ve also noticed two updates ago vs now the car waits for both sides of traffic to be clear even when there is a huge divider that it could sit in. The old version would use the divider and felt confident but with the stopping for greens, warning alerts, phantom breaking, slooowwww speeds, and jerkiness of this version it feels like an entirely different system. I’ve had it disengage just sitting at two specific stop signs waiting to turn pretty consistently on this version and it’s the first time I’ve ever seen it struggle with them.

[@joedulin]

@@FabyRamone I sincerely miss 12.3.6. I honestly haven't found anything that 12.5.4.2 does better and a significant number of things that it does worse. 12.3.6 I was letting the car drive an honest 80% of the time or more, but now I use FSD less than 10% of the time. 12.3.6 may not have been perfect, but it was at least consistent. In my regular drives there were two, maybe three spots that 12.3.6 had issues with, the rest of the time it did great. With 12.5.4.2 I'm lucky to make it down a straight road with no lane changes without having to intervene (lights, phantom breaking, speed issues, etc). I honestly can't make it a mile from my house before I'm just fed up with it.

[@619kt619]

20:18 this is my issue. How big will the disparity be between software builds from HW3 to HW4 before Tesla deems a hardware upgrade is necessary? Are they going to continue chasing an optimized build that works on increasingly older hardware that seems to be at its limits? I believe once Tesla opens the robotaxi network and is collecting revenue then they should offer the hardware upgrades to FSD owners

[@Captain_DeSync]

My experience with this version has been kinda bad as well. The biggest thing is that it just goes full send up to a stop, slams on the brakes, and then floors it from the stop. It’s really infuriating. Another thing is that it will do somethings way too quickly.

[@moseschung3220]

9:32 I agree with you. I really wish there was a more TACC-like behavior for FSD. I know I can just switch to TACC (which seems to disable FSD) but I really want to have FSD capabilities with no lane changes, especially on long highway trips.

[@AlexanderHuzar]

As a HW/AI3 owner, I have been quite upset that since April we've been getting little to no progress on FSD compared to HW/AI4. Also the camera limitations are really very noticeable and directly affect the ego's ability to have confidence to make turns smoothly at anything higher than a snail's pace.

[@edwcory]

My HW3 computer has almost fully failed. I can’t complete 40 miles of driving before the camera feeds cut out and FSD or even basic traffic aware cruise control stops working with 12.5.4.2. To be fair, I’m at 95k miles before it happened, but since I got into the FSD Beta program almost 4 years ago now… I was hoping to get some actual out of beta usage. Oh well, it’s been fun.

[@mannyAKAmanny]

My 2 year old Model Y has HW3. I also got it after the 2022 price hikes, before the EV tax credits, and waited 9 months for delivery. But I still love my car. I have never had an issue driving it. I'm hoping there will be at least a 12.5.x update to fix the phantom braking that happens at night and random braking for green and blinking yellow lights. I'm willing to keep waiting a bit more for all the other improvements that HW4 owners are enjoying. These regressions are annoying especially with others in the car. @DirtyTesla Thanks for making this comparison video. Your perspective is valuable, especially with your deep experience across FSD versions. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time and really appreciate your work!

[@catbert7]

Holy hell, you really got boned to the max 😱 Good that you have a positive attitude about it. My dad will never not be angry that he bought his Y before the price fell ;p Funny how that works. Happy to pay the price at the time of purchase but if it goes down after, you feel cheated 🤷‍♂

[@mannyAKAmanny]

@ On top of that I convinced my sister to buy one but by the time she pulled the trigger on it the referral program was gone. Then they brought it back. I just want to get one referral so that I can get the roof rack.

[@plixie1]

That's a good attitude, I try and hold that as well. I bought a m3 in October of 22' . It was 58k. Nothing I can do about it, it does sting though.

[@TheMagico13]

I don't really expect v13 to come to HW3 but I hope the updated v12 highway stack does at least. Current highway is acceptable but definitely needs improvement.

[@joedulin]

I'm with you. I've basically given up hope that HW3 will ever deliver on promises given. And the really frustrating part is that we're being left on such a broken version. "Downgrade" me to 12.3.6, add in ASS and the vision monitoring and I'll be... well I won't be happy, but less disgruntled as I wait for a miracle.

[@TheSpartan3669]

​@@joedulinYour experience will likely be shared by those with HW4 once the next version comes out and Tesla starts prioritizing that.

[@rogershark9223]

Just looked it up: October 2016 " Tesla claimed the HW2 suite of sensors and computation provided the necessary equipment to allow FSD at SAE Level 5" yeah they have a history over lying about what something can do. I'd say 10% chance at best HW3 can ever do full level 5 If they don't upgrade my hardware 3 for free I'm going to be pretty upset and so will the initial tesla supporters who helped them get off the ground

[@quickpstuts412]

Agree. And to people who say we were dumb enough to believe it would happen....doesn't matter. They shouldn't have promised it. Period.

[@sails180]

The early verbiage about true FSD capability is now expunged from the website for two main reasons, 1. It’s not happening on vehicles with HW3, older computers, processors and cameras and 2. The coming fallout from lawsuits from all the the people left in the twilight zone of FSD.

[@quickpstuts412]

@ Sad but true. Had I known the history of Tesla overpromising I’d made a different decision.

[@pjlecy1]

Thank you for doing this. I subscribe to FSD and won't get a free hardware upgrade, so idk if the differential between the models of hw4 vs 3 are more growing I'd love a price break. As a subscriber to FSD why should I pay the same as someone with a better performing model? I think thats fair to ask

[@otterc.9337]

2018 M3P owner with paid-for FSD, currently running 12.5.4.2. A horrible experience as a driver. Frequently misses highway exits. Consistently chooses wrong lane in surface streets (turn lane vs. thru lane). Inconsistent speed selection on surface streets (sometimes way too fast, sometimes way too slow, sometimes about right--all on the same drive), slows/stops at green lights, brake stabs at flashing yellow lights. Does not correctly respond to: emergency vehicles, stopped school buses, variable speed limits in school zones, no-right-turn-on-red signage. All in all, here in the suburban DC area, it is more stressful to use FSD than just to drive oneself. Since I'm in the beta program, I do use FSD when I am alone in the vehicle, but I no longer engage FSD if I have passengers. I feel ripped off, and I have stopped recommending FSD to others FWIW

[@EastCoastTesla]

Great video. My experience with 12.5.4.2 on my HW3 car has been really bad. That’s said, I believe they will fix it quick, and I think we are far from seeing the end of HW3 FSD updates.

[@brianyoung4380]

I have a 2019 model 3. My biggest issue is the car used to move back into the driving lane on the interstate after passing. It has not in a very long time. Will it ever get the highway stack? V13 will have it? So aggravating..... Thanks

[@saplays8473]

Why would the imagery on your screen be different than mine (2024 model 3)? Yours shows cones on the road where there are cones, mine only shows blurs that it detects something on the road, also when you pass a bus or school bus it looks like a bus, everything that's big for me shows up as a semi on the screen.

[@CharlieLiuPhotography]

As someone who's purchased two Teslas in the past and FSD is still not the final product that he's promised... Fool me once, shame on you... but fool me twice, shame on me. Not falling for that one again. We'll see if FSD ever becomes a thing. But to be fair, FSD is still more advanced than any other driving assistance I've tried.

[@PeterparkerSlaps]

Thank you for your early adoption. It puts a lot of new owners like myself in a better place. Your sacrifice is not in vain

[@sudeeptaghosh]

Thank you for early adoption .. you guys are the part of the reason Elon will be able to solve even AGI .. 👍🙏

[@michwashington]

Because they’re watching you and driving the cars themselves it’s a joke‼️

[@PeterparkerSlaps]

@@michwashington what planet are you on?

[@theodorehaskins3756]

@@michwashington Really! Explain the joke, because I didn’t quite get it?

[@ms1007901]

14:22 my MY doesn’t get out the passing lane consistently. Or sometimes it takes too long to do so. I don’t want to block people at all.

[@RubenKelevra]

13:47 looks like wrong interpretation of map data, or wrong map data. FSD "thought" it needed to keep right to go straight, because of the upcoming left exit, and did not recognize the right exit just before it.

[@NateSpencerWx]

Chris what is that "deliverable delivery status" alert all about?

[@alexp.6406]

Thanks! What do you think of internal/cabin cameras, when should they go away for the owners (or could be covered)? Once the Robotaxi is operational?

[@jakelamc1]

Thank you for making a video like this! As a HW3 owner who bought a new 23 model 3 last year I’m feeling a lot of buyers remorse. Had there been more transparency about the limitations of HW3 I would have just waited a few months to get the new model 3.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

I feel like the avg joe didnt know but the tesla enthusiasts like myself knew. Its why i dont have a hw4 car, ill buy at hw5 in a year or 1.5, at which point it should in the future updates maybe 5 years from now or even much sooner, it'll easily hit autonomous lvl 4 and if we're lucky, even lvl 5 w/o a new update

[@quickpstuts412]

@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br But you don't think the same thing will happen to HW5 a year and a half after it's out? There will always be new ideas that require more software eventually. I no longer trust that a certain HW version will be enough.

[@johnlabernik4599]

HW3 model 3 on 12.5.4.2 here. Test some low speed, limited visibility stop signs. The latency is borderline dangerous. It will do an NHTSA stop, then just slow roll into cross traffic without creeping for visibility. Very repeatable.

[@jackreedy5872]

I haven't done enough highway driving to know, but for city streets I feel like FSD on my H3 MY is better than my Cybertruck. I'm excited for FSD V13 on Cybertruck!

[@MikeRadioNY]

I have little issues on HW3. I have occasional slow or stop on green. Speed isn’t at max on city streets. My car is only 2 years old. And I am expecting an upgrade if needed

[@PicardDK]

You should try pure autopilot. The roughly 1 sec delay reaction time I have on my 2021 m3 is damn annoying. When a car turns of in front of me, far ahead, me car will slowing down, even if the patch is already clear. Could be fun to know fsd vs autopilot reaction time

[@rcuadro]

I am kinda glad i bought my 2024 M3P when i did. I bought it when they started to offer veteran discount, referral, FSD transfer, and 1.99% financing.

[@klasdillon]

this makes me so happy to have HW4. feel genuinely bad for HW3. i hope they get permanent free FSD transfer or free HW4 upgrades for people who bought FSD

[@Clyde-2055]

After what point are all Teslas equipped with HW4? Do the on-screen vehicle specs include the FSD hardware version information ?

[@TheRobertlonski]

Hey -- That was a good video, thanks for making it! I am a 2022 M3 owner with HW3 and am disappointed as the other F SD'ers with HW3 cars. We need to keep things in perspective, TESLA is a public company in a competitive business with lots of competition, they see FSD as a discriminator and need to make it as good as possible as fast as they can.TESLA came to the realization when they completed the FSD merged-stack and realized that it would not fit on HW3 without a lot of optimization, but observed that the merged-stack would 'easily' fit on HW4. TESLA probably does not know if they can optimize enough, for HW3 and not compromise performance.

[@rockafeller94]

Was hoping for a Dirty Tesla comment at 17:40.. smh..

[@CYBRLFT]

Hey how’d you get my model Y? 🙃 That adding speed with the person behind ya isn’t so great when it ends up pushing FSD to runaway from the person behind ya to some pretty dumb speeds 👀

[@SundanceHelicopterTours]

Thanks for the methodological comparison✌️

[@Peltwerk]

I have this version on HW3 and it's awful. Many times it will break check at green lights hard. It also regularly does this pulsing movement and won't maintain set cruisecontrol limit.

[@NateSpencerWx]

You have to keep the accelerator pressed on that road for it to go faster because I think that it is hard programed so that it cannot go way above the speed limit. I doubt that the speed limit actually was 25 MPH but that is what the car thought the speed was. It will be interesting how Tesla addresses this issue because it is one of the roadblocks for no supervision.

[@Levathain]

I have a 2024 Model 3 awd and I’m on the same fsd 12.5.4.2. Can you explain why there are so many different versions out there and when should I get v13?

[@overnightclassic2]

the different versions are just software updates. Not everyone gets the same. If you have a newer version of FSD you will not get the holiday update as early which means none of the new software features. it just depends. I think the only people to get 13 right now are the 4 influencers who make popular videos. Everyone else is on an older version. There are a few popular influencers who are on HW3 so they can't get an update. If you have a safety score that is high you will be next.

[@digitalplayland]

Amazing videos! You should take both versions for a comparison. Soon!

[@onrbsr]

What are the differences btw Intel Atom HW3 vs Ryzen HW3?

[@Soughanunna]

I wonder what would it take to upgrade all HW3 cars to HW5 when it becomes available

[@robertlinder6414]

I have a '21 model Y, I just need the highway NN and no more beeps from the camera and the weather.

[@Angelboy99]

I have a 2020 MYP with FSD 12.5.4.2 since early November. I purchased the warranty extension to carry me out until I get the Juniper. I will get the dual motor rather than the Performance version this time but will take the hitch and probably 7 seat option instead. I did add the Bio Defense hepa filter witch was a good decision when we experienced northern Canada forest fires or when following a poorly maintained Diesel oil burning vehicle. Canadian laws and specifically Quebec laws (Civil law instead of common law) protect consumers from OEM discrimination. I believe a retrofit is inevitable as AI5 is coming out in 2026. Musk did say this at the 2024 Q3 financial call: "If that turns out to be the case, we will upgrade those who bought hardware 3 FSD for free. And we have designed the system to be upgradable". I am not concerned but anxious to get the retrofit 😊

[@elvinthalund5193]

In the short-term I just want FSD to be comfortable for passengers like 12.3.6 was, so it more usable. At the moment I can only use FSD if I'm alone in the car.

[@FxsX24]

lane choices are one of my biggest issues on this version

[@Channel323]

does the AMD Ryzen chip play a part in HW3? as far as processing power and would that help with the cameras?

[@benso87]

No

[@Channel323]

@@benso87 Thanks.

[@darrenorange2982]

When HW3....but the FSD does not even allow us to get to E2E Highway yet so it seems very likely its at the end of the road.

[@carlagat1075]

I got a used Tesla but I didn't consider HW3 vs HW4. 😢

[@rubenjaimes1194]

There is no other side to this. I don't care how old my hw3 car is. I paid 7k to have the car do what it was advertised to do. It still has not. I say there needs to be a lawsuit to get this fixed. Giving me free fsd transfer is a slap in the face.

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

@@rubenjaimes1194 Until there’s a solution, expect every quarterly meeting to include a HW3 question to Tesla.

[@rubenjaimes1194]

@RogerWilsonTodd solution is either upgrade the vehicles or refund the money. I'll take my 7k back.

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

@ It would be nice to get three options: 1) Refund; 2) One non-expiring FSD transfer; 3) FSD hardware upgrade.

[@rubenjaimes1194]

@RogerWilsonTodd a transfer shouldn't even be a question. They should give you a huge discount for making you buy another car

[@RogerWilsonTodd]

@ That’s the value in my suggestion to offer OPTIONS. Don’t feel a transfer is right for you, then take the refund.

[@HunterDishner]

HW3 is seriously embarrassing right now. I've stopped recommending FSD to people now

[@antoniodamelio9924]

Same here

[@davidkendall2272]

Not my experience with 2022 MSLR on 12.5.4.2. Use it ~100% and have found it very comfortable and safe in my experience. Would totally recommend FSD.

[@carternll]

You should've never recommended it.

[@toddm3967]

After the last update I got on my 2019 M3 I finally have given up on FSD in my area, been using it since we had to get scored with a safety score to have access and I held in there understanding this is a really hard problem to solve but it's clear to me in this area with hardware 3 it's just probably never going to get to where it's even convenient and comfortable to use nevermind not needing to pay attention. In my area, with this hardware I'm much better off using my knee to steer if I need to open a bottle of water or something.

[@Maxwellinator]

Agreed. Same here. FSD on my 2022 Model 3 is a Disaster right now. Absolutely awful. Not even worth clicking in due to the number of interventions repeatedly needed. It's chronically totally incompetent.

[@LordStevie]

Chris, how would you feel if this is as far as HW3 is going to go development wise, while HW4 keeps getting better? Why hasn’t it even gotten E2E highway? It’s not going to get any better.

[@michaelcarr1149]

My camera quality became degraded with the new update 12.5.4.2. I started getting fsd may be degraded at night that I never got before. They are even worse when viewing from the app.

[@cosmocalisse]

I would suspect that hw3 will get some verdion of fsd13, but the fact they offered a future hardware upgrade to FSD HW3 buyers is pretty much undeniable proof that HW3 will never be unsupervised

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

I mean hw5 is a thing also in testing so.who knows, maybe hw4 will only reach lvl 3/4 autonomous driving while hw5 will be the 1st truly capable of lvl 5 autonomous driving

[@cosmocalisse]

@NadeemAhmed-nv2br levels 4/5 are arbitrary measures. Cars don't really need to be L5 since remote takeover is already a thing (waymo). But they need to be good enough to not need takeover too frequently

[@CRISTOBALDukes]

I love how you broke down the XAI735x project in your video! Can’t wait to see it soar!

[@deivisondasilva252]

I always watch your videos, I really like your content. But please always leave the subtitles off because I'm Brazilian and I don't understand much English so I'm always watching subtitled. I thank you and it will help me a lot 😃.

[@bsears693]

What are your thoughts on hardware 5? I saw a comment about it being released early 2026? Seems fast for having just released HW 4

[@RSkala100]

I am constantly aggressively tailgated by pickup trucks while in the left lane while I am passing. Is this a weird pickup thing?

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

Yes, most pickup owners are Mor Rons.

[@BitJam]

What's the difference between a porcupine and a pickup truck?

[@Tesla_Copilot]

My CyberTruck is in the shop for the same thing, and I have the same loaner running 12.5.4.2. It's been really interesting getting to try both builds on different hardware back to back. They both do things better and worse then each others. I think over all the hardware 3 is better then the Cybertruck running 12.5.5.3. But only just barely. I think hardware 3 is running at its max though and clearly the Cybertruck is running a basic build.

[@SH-in1qz]

Hw3 handles merging still not very well. It merges too late for narrowed lanes, leading situations of side by side cars driving into a single lane road, which both cars can get into accidents. Second, it does not yield to cars entering into highway when the cars merging onto highway are driving almost side by side with the Tesla or when the merging ramp is very short and the merging car is accelerating to try to get in quickly. This will get the merging cars into accidents. I had disengaged many times for these two types of merging situations.

[@EsJoachim]

Love your job, following for a few years now. Great and relevant comment.

[@MAFlinner]

2021 model 3 latest update is horrible. 3 interventions -3 missed exits in a short ride in Washington DC , slow for no reason and jerky.. 🤬

[@Levathain]

Also my 2024 model 3 h4 fsd 12.5.4.2 jerks on the exit like you are talking. So I think it’s the version, not the hardware 3

[@Lawrence-l6e]

Even our AI5 vehicles, I expect them to become obsolete as well. Sort of the way tech goes. AI5 is expected to be announced in July 2025, after all, with 10× the performance. I foresee them using integrated cleaning for all the cameras for the robotaxi. Explains the release notes as well for cleaning the cameras. And it probably won't be able to retrofit due to power requirements.

[@jsjs6751]

@Chris, please enable captions on your videos.

[@jull1234]

Behind *of course*. The question is 'when', and more importantly 'if' they think that its possible to get there eventually with hw3.

[@geoffn8963]

I have a late-2022 MY on HW3. If they could just get HW3 to E2E highway that would be good for me. If they can give us some V13 version even better. I only subscribe to FSD and only sporadically. I don't mind the V11 highway code, but a lot of our highways where I live are considered not limited access so they run V12 and the car doesn't use the minimal lane change setting when running V12 on these highways. Therefore it likes to do silly lane changes that I just don't want it to do. When it does run V11 on some of our highways then I can just have min lane change and let it camp in the right lane.

[@pennyharris446]

I’m on 12.5.4.2 hw3 with a Ryzen processor. Late darting over kinda gets too close to the left to go right on an off ramp. Brakes too late for comfort behind other cars. Could cause a tailgate to rear end me. At dark, hugs left lane line and curbs like it can’t see well, which it can’t because it doesn’t have IR. Otherwise drives fine. Gets on highway well. Summon is great. City driving is okay. If Tesla upgrades hw3 they need to upgrade the cameras to IR, too. If they don’t upgrade hw3, then leave us an open ended date to transfer fsd to a new car at any time at least once.

[@robkeshav800]

Chris - can you repeat the test with small toys with V13.2 on your wife's MY with AI4? I have seen videos were the car "sees" small objects now on V13.2. Thanks

[@chrisraper6181]

You indicated that Tesla is going to wait a long time to upgrade HW3 to HW4. One major reason Tesla might move quickly to upgrade is because they want fleets of customer vehicles as robotaxis. If they can only use HW4 as robotaxis, will that fleet be enough to compete with Uber?

[@rogershark9223]

Musk announced Hardware 5 (HW5), being named AI5, during the Tesla annual meeting on June 13, 2024. Musk stated it is scheduled for release in January 2026, and will be ten times more powerful than HW4. Musk also stated that it will use up to 800 watts when processing complex environments (versus 300 watts for HW3 and HW4). Yeah I don't see them supporting 2 generations behind much longer. Tesla is to forward thinking to keep supporting legacy products.

[@NormanY]

The issue is that Elon and Tesla sold HW3 indicating it has all the hardware for FSD. If they have not say that I would wait till next generation. A lot of early adopters spend 12K or more on HW3 Tesla.

[@stevedowler2366]

Big dilemma is: should I trade in my 2022 HW3 MYLR now for a new Y with AI4 or should I wait and see if Tesla finally decides to offer an upgrade to AI4 on my existing car? There are millions of HW3 cars out there and it would be a big expense for Tesla. Would I take an offer that costs me, say $1000? No but $500 or $250? Yes. Tough one - wait or trade up. Hmmm.

[@spin_kick]

Early 2023 - It really sucks being stuck on the old hardware.

[@Robo_Sri12341]

the real dirty tesla 17:20

[@Kameronkonalives]

I have a 2023 Model 3 RWD. I have the AMD processor and I believe the cameras look better than what you have. But I’m not HW4. It sucks that my 1.5 yr old car is already possibly going obsolete…

[@thinkatoz1851]

Was that other Model Y another Dirty Tesla?

[@ElMistroFeroz]

Funny. I recently upgraded my 2017 Model S to Hardware 3 because I didn't want to be left behind.

[@kodekabuki]

I basically never use HW3 without “minimal lane changes”. Otherwise I would enrage so many people with the lane changes.

[@jimmyers4890]

The highway driving on my model Y is much better than country roads. As far as breaking being better on country roads that are 50 miles an hour it breaks very late if there's a car in front that's going to make a left turn or even a right turn the car keeps going until there within 50 feet and then brakes very hard, so hard that my passengers often get very worried that I'm going to rear in the car in front of us. I also turned off the auto speed last night because it did it once again I was in a 55 zone doing 53 moved into a 35 zone and the car continued to do 53 and after about a mile I turned off and reported it and when I got home I took it out of auto and I will not use it again until I know that it's been fixed. You should watch RSEV where he compares a Tesla model 3 to a BMW, the BMW is almost perfect on speed changes.

[@delawarepilot]

3 year ill be in the same boat when HW5 comes out and my HW4 won’t keep up. Such is the plight of the early adopters.

[@NadeemAhmed-nv2br]

They're already testing hw5 so id wait 1.5 years and get that instead

[@delawarepilot]

@ lol figures

[@andyrechenberg]

The speed fluctuations for FSD on HW3 are terrible! Glad I only subscribe when I do a long road trip. The auto-wipers are just awful in FSD for my car. Auto-wipers in standard autopilot for my car is better.