Is The 7 PRC Really Better Than The 7 Rem Mag?

Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! In this video, we delve into the ongoing debate on whether the 7mm PRC is really better than the 7mm Remington Magnum. As two of the most popular all-around choices for North American hunting, both have distinct features that make them great cartridges. The 7mm Remington Magnum has been around for over 60 years and has been widely used by hunters for its accuracy and energy figures. On the other hand, the newer 7mm PRC is part of the Precision Rifle Cartridge line and has dropped the belt, relying on the 30-degree shoulder for headspacing. It offers better concentricity, longer case life, and better downrange accuracy. However, is it really superior to the tried and tested 7mm Rem Mag? We compare their features, ballistics, and overall performance to determine which is the better cartridge for you. Tune in to learn more.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@TyroneNorthcutt]

Inside 400 yds, my 7mm08 with 139, 140, 150, 154 grains is all I need for hunting, while the 1:8.5 twist allows me to shoot 120 to 175g on paper to long distance. I can load 'em light to get a lot of trigger time and hot when I need to make an ethical, quick drop with Win StaBall 6.5 And .308 brass is cheap and available to resize when 7-08 isn't available. 7mm bullets come in a huge range. Accuracy, low re-coil, varmints to elk, 7-08 is hard to beat.

[@shootingatshadow]

I just grabbed some 6.5 staball to hotrod my wife's 7mm-08. I love that cartridge.

[@ToddOutdoors]

I’m looking at possibly picking up something in 7mm-08 for hunting. Any recommendations on riffles in it?

[@TyroneNorthcutt]

@@ToddOutdoors Two good videos to start with because that is a loaded question, no pun intended. Depends on what terrain animals, average kill distance and comfortability. But for most people, it starts with budget. I like mid tier rifles with good optics, practice 100 - 500yards, point blank zero around 250-300 and I never shoot animals past 400 yards, period. But these two videos are good for reviewing what is available in a decent price point: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3WwgaylnMSAjJo kzbin.info/www/bejne/d56TYYSEa7VoasU Get a decent MOA rifle, pay more for a good optic and don't go crazy, well over half the kills I have had are at 100-180 yards. 3-10 to 4-16 is more than enough, I do like 46-50mm objectives, they do gather light.

[@ez7977]

@@ToddOutdoors - tikka. Cant be beat for the price and you get a glass smooth action

[@elgato9534]

I love that bro. I shoot a 7x57 it's almost. Pretty much the same performance. But those bullets, I used Hornady b4 Californication outlawed them. ROCKED!

[@tallzdatank]

7 prc is cool, it definitely does have some advantages over 7 rem mag. That being said, I won't be changing from my 7 rem mag any time soon. The gun does everything I need it to do, very well. I won't argue anyone buying one over the other. They're both great.

[@malcolmdennis503]

Dude the 7mm prc does not outperform the 7 mm Remington magnum stick with what you got. This is just a bunch of marketing and advertisement. 7rem mag shoots those high bc bullets just as good put both of those rifle side-by-side work up good loads and you will not see any difference

[@tallzdatank]

@@malcolmdennis503 I kind of said that....... The prc rifles typically come with a better twist rate to stabilize the heavy bullets better. In my rem mag I'm running 160gr sierra gam kings, been doing it for years on deer, elk, and antelope. So far they put everything down as well as can be expected. I don't see any reason to switch, but if someone else bought a prc, I don't see any reason not to buy that over a 7 rem mag.

[@malcolmdennis503]

Your correct most 7mmPRC rifles I’ve seen got a 1:8 twist most of the older 7rem mags had or got 1:9/5 twist but most of the more more rifles are coming with a 1:8 twist so there you go absolutely no difference at all. I’ll marketing and advertisement and here’s another thing a 1:9 twist is fast enough to stable those new longer hire BC bullets in the standard 7rem mag and probably could shoot a little heavier with no problem

[@tallzdatank]

@@malcolmdennis503 cool. I guess all I'm saying is, if you have one, either one, the difference between them is so negligible that it really just comes down to which one can I find in the rifle I want, at a better price. I really don't care what other people buy. I own a 7mm rem mag, it's an old gun, but it shoots well and packs nicely. I have enough ammo and reloading supplies to be able to run the rifle to death, but it will probably outlive me considering I really only shoot it 5-10 rounds a year most years. I don't plan on changing. But I could understand why someone might buy a PRC instead of the rem mag.

[@twolak1972]

All this fast twist BS is just PURE LAZINESS. My 7mm rem.mag came with a 1.in 9.5 twist and shoots the heavy 175 noslers beautifully . I get half inch groups at 100 and it shoots the lighter 150,s to the same point of impact. This PRC crap is just to sell rifles like the 6.5 CREEDMOOR which was supposed to blow the older 25 / 06 and 260 remington out of the water but in reality is behind the old but legendary 06.quarter master.

[@nohandle257]

Being recoil sensitive due to eye problems I have topped out at the 6.5 PRC. I'm taking down large Aoudad and near 300 lb hogs with excellent results. 143 grain Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition.

[@ChristopherEDenton]

@mokfishing Amen, not without the muzzlebrake but mine too has one.

[@matttraxler3567]

@mokfishing Shoot a 300 rum with a brake doesnt kick more than a 308

[@adamshaw8214]

Can you explain what eye problems and recoil have to do with each other? I'm honestly asking not being a smartass. I too have some eye disorders and am wondering if I should consider downsizing my choices.

[@ryanswanson1150]

6.5 PRC is bada$$. Got my first Aoudad with that. 32” both sides. Love it.

[@nohandle257]

@@adamshaw8214 Hi. No problem. I have a slight tear in my retina on my dominant right eye. This could progress to a detached retina with more shock. Originally I got this injury falling off my dirt bike. I don't ride dirt bikes any more. Don't snow ski either. I have no real medical information that strong recoil could exacerbate my problem but I don't want to take any chances. I really do find the 6.5 Creedmoor really easy to shoot and even the PRC. I think back to shooting a 300 short mag I had and I hated that gun. I was ok with my 308 but even with it I had to think about not flinching. With the above rifles I don't have any thought of a flinch.

[@stevenlewis6781]

Just getting around to watching this video and I must say that it’s probably the best video explaining the Hornady PRC series out there. It’s the tighter tolerances that make the biggest difference to 90% of the shooters. Also, big respect for both gentlemen for taking the time to explain that the ranges these cartridges are effective to does not mean you should be shooting at game at those ranges. The quote “if your planning on shooting past 500 yards at big game, you better be burning barrels out in practice “ is probably the best quote I’ve ever seen on this subject. Excellent work.

[@kevinsauer5794]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5W9fqWPbL-Shck Much more in depth discussion.

[@chipsterb4946]

I have no patience for Gavin. The guys at Vortex Nation had a good discussion about the 7mm PRC as well as these 2.

[@timothyottersen4466]

Glad to know the two of you will be working together more in the future. It’s a winning combination

[@thomascharlton7325]

Ron, I also want to say how impressed I am with your willingness to take viewpoints that aren’t within the lens you have carved for yourself. You clearly see that people are interested these days, perhaps even borderline obsessed with taking ethical kill shots at the absolute extreme of the ethics parameters. You brought someone in who can bring that view to the table I believe. I have no prior knowledge of this other guy so I am just guessing based on the past two videos I have watched with him. Good stuff guys!!

[@Vikingocazar]

I love how Ron is open to all these new rounds!!

[@tacman2893]

Really cool cartridge (the PRC) but I guess I would be hard pressed to switch at this point. My 7mm REM Mag does all I need it to do with many options in bullets/loads. Also, I am a 500 yard and in hunter, even though I was trained in long range shooting. Just too easy for something to happen in the field (unlike on the bench) and I would feel horrible if I lost a wounded animal because I shot to far and screwed up the shot.

[@HondoTrailside]

Right on! And as a bowhunter, even though broadheads are devastating, often dropping animals on the spot, or near to it. Tracking is still a major problem. And in many cases you could fall on the start of the trail. I don't know how these people who are tagging animals 500+ yards out, make out even finding the blood trail. Of course a lot of this hunting occurs in open ground, but even there an animal can crawl into a pothole, beside a bush, and the chance of finding it when one isn't even sure where the hit was made, is low.

[@govtfunded]

@@HondoTrailside Because most aren't doing it solo. They're doing it with a 'team' of spotters in an organized marketing stunt to sell things. When they hunt solo, they aren't taking those kind of shots, now cue the haterade in 5, 4, 3....

[@toddk1377]

​@@govtfunded I agree for the most part when it comes to big game or game for food so to speak. It's not so much of an issue on varmints like prairie dogs, woodchucks, or even coyotes.

[@earlchesnut9017]

You could not have said it better

[@toddk1377]

​@@HondoTrailside Depends on the game being hunted. I wouldn't care if I lost a coyote or a woodchuck as I would a deer or something like that. When I used to live in NE, we would hunt in the winter in large fields that go as far as the eye can see. A friend of mine had his 25-06 dialed in with reloads and was taking coyotes as far as 800 yards out. We still recovered them, but many farmers just threw the carcasses in a kill pile. I like to collect the hides and the skulls, but if I lost that, or if I made a less than optimal shot on a coyote or something like it, I just didn't feel as bad for it like I would something like a deer. It may sound bad but some animals that are more of a nuisance, same with wild hogs in the south, people are typically more desensitized about them.

[@thomascharlton7325]

This dynamic between you dudes is awesome. I am loving the swings in the dialog from history to the present and the challenges in logic from the different schools of thought.

[@readyalready4697]

I have love for 7mm rem mag . I won't ever have one or need one. But I'm glad it's there.

[@williamthomas3620]

I got a 7mm Rem Mag in the 70's for Mule Deer in west Texas, and made the longest shot of my life on a game animal, 450 yards. What you haven't mentioned so far is the RECOVERY of an animal taken at extreme distance. I spent the better part of 1 day getting that deer off the mountain top. I never tried that again.

[@albertojimenez4528]

130 m better

[@keithross4511]

Always love it when you have Buck Rogers on your show and you’re both discussing rifles or hand guns and bullets. You both put out great information. Love your program Ron!

[@johnwurfel2862]

My favorite 7mm is my .177 Red Ryder. I've taken many incredible big-game animals with it on my shoot-and-release hunts.

[@johannesvanhoek9080]

Very nice presentation and i think that it was a fair presentation but I’ll stick with my Remington 7 mm mag and my 300 Win mag. Im a reloader and within reason can do whatever I need to do ! Thanks for the video !

[@Justin-pq3rq]

These new cartridges are just different ways to get u to spend money. I’ll take my .270 Win for about anything. If I want to get serious I’ll use my .300 Win Mag.

[@ValcoBayrunner]

Hey Koolaid Oh No, its Hornady ammunition 😂 Nosler, Barnes, Swift, Federal Bear claw bullets rule 🤘

[@dhaff8411]

Really fun seeing both of you breakdown this new cartridge together! Love both of your channels. Thank fellas

[@rhuck37]

I can agree with you two, to where I also think the 7 mm is probably the best all-around diameter for a hunting and or long-range cartridge. I bought mine in 1961 to where that 7 mm Rem Mag just came out, where I have used it ever since in my old Model 700 Remington it is one accurate round. I have always thought that the 160 grain bullets are the best in that caliber. Keep up your good works regarding your outdoors messages to all of us out here. I thank you for all that you are doing for the shooting world.

[@ronladuke7235]

My first new big game bolt rifle back in the mid 1970s was a Rem 700 bdl in 7rem mag but if I was a young man again and buying a new hunting rifle the 7 prc would get the nod.

[@mlwardssa]

Another great podcast. Thank you! But I have yet to have this question answered: Given that folks tout the 7PRC as a very versatile cartridge, with it's chamber specifically designed for long bullets, how does it handle shorter bullets, say in the 130-150 grain range? In other words, given the longer, albeit tighter throat and chamber dimensions, does it shoot lighter/shorter bullets with the same precision as longer/heavier ones? If so, that would certainly add to the claim of overall versatility. Thanks again for another great show.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

I bought a Ruger chambered for the 7mm PRC a few months ago. I've been a 7 Rem Mag fan for a lot of years. I think the 7 PRC is going to be around for a long time.

[@The_Judge300]

And why did you buy the 7 PRC? Because of the hype? What is your 7 PRC doing better for you than the 7 Rem Mag did? Unless all the 7 PRC hype manage to "trick" very many people to buy it, I very much doubt it is going to be around for a long time in large numbers. It very much reminds me of much of the WSM hype. Looks great on paper, but it is not that much better for practical hunting that it will push away the older, well working and popular cartridges.

[@Hudge76]

@@The_Judge300are you but hurt much that he bought a 7 PRC and you didn’t? Life would be boring if we all shot the same cartridge.

[@The_Judge300]

@@Hudge76 🤣 You are so funny. Grow up little one. I could not care less about what gun you buy or anyone buys. I can buy any gun, but that doesn't mean I want to. Are you not able to buy the guns you want? Is that the reason for why you are so aggressive? Take a chill pill or two. You clearly need to. I just wanted to know his reasons for buying the 7 PRC if he had a 7 Rem Mag already. Or why he thought buying a 7 PRC instead of a 7 Rem Mag was better. People are so easily caught up in hypes and a few numbers showing a very slight advantage that most people don't need at all.

[@Hudge76]

@@The_Judge300 Me grow up? Oh man you are hilarious! If you think I was being aggressive I really must have hurt your feelings. You were the one asking 50 questions on why someone bought a 7mm PRC over a 7mm RM and was upset about it.

[@The_Judge300]

@@Hudge76 Either you are 15 or you have the maturity of a 15 year old. And please tell me little Hudge. Where was I upset about him buying a 7 PRC? And you clearly need to go back to school to learn how to count. Early dropout maybe?

[@TexanUSMC8089]

It always amazes me how people can't wait for a small improvement in their favorite truck or car model, but throw a fit and scream and holler when a new cartridge comes out that's a little better than their old favorite cartridge.

[@user-mg5ed3qk1b]

45 acp is still just fine, I don't care what them 10mm guys say!😏

[@actionjksn]

It's amazing how some of these people treat a new super cartridge like it is a personal insult or personal attack. This is a really nice high-performance cartridge and if I did this kind of hunting and was still building up my collection, I would definitely get it. I would definitely not get it if I already had the old 7mm as an old guy.

[@wldtrky38]

In 1990 i went to a gun show to get a magnum. 300 Win or 7mm Rem. I found a 300 first, its still dropping whitetails in their tracks. My eyes being what they are, long range is 300 yards, lol. Great upload, very interesting cartridge and awesome presentation 👍👍 Thanks to you both 🇺🇸

[@elgato9534]

My favorite is the 7×57 but I have a 7mm rem mag. Recoil is a non issue in a 10.5 pound perfect length of pull rifle. 7mm 08 is the modern classic

[@AlexS.2016]

Great explanation that really makes sense for the people who are newer into this detailed stuff that really need this information presented in a simple way, and most importantly you did it in a way that if you buy one or the other you are not wrong like in many other videos. This was not a wasted video at all. Thank you.

[@dennishively5994]

Thank you for sharing this information, looking into upgrading my elk rifle from 30-06 to 7mm

[@davegeorge9538]

Im just learning reloading, and learn new things each time I watch your videos, thanks for the great content!

[@dweb2275]

Just bought a Fierce Rouge 7mm prc and Burris Veracity PH. Going to the range tomorrow to see how that combo does.

[@MotoFish45]

I bought the same rifle and topped it with a Leupold VX-5HD, 3-15x44. WICKED combination. Follow the 20 round break-in found on the Fierce web site. Then after another half a dozen rounds, without cleaning, shoot your 3 round group to see the rifle’s potential. It likes to group better after another 6-10 rounds have been through it. That’s also what Fierce told me on the phone. Gun will group better a little dirty. Give it ample time to cool before getting your 3 round group done also. You will be super happy. I’ve put 60 rounds through mine now and it’s a tac driver. Got a 1” group at 200 yds, where I start my zero. That’s really impressive. I’ve only taken it out to 300 so far. Saving long distance for next month, where I will be doing stuff out to 1000yd with my son. Can’t wait for hunt’n season! Good Luck

[@Not-the-only-one]

Fierce makes a very accurate rifle.

[@MotoFish45]

@@Not-the-only-one Agreed! It is very accurate. Shot distance yesterday, seems deadly accurate out to 800. After that, wind and elevation came into play more dramatically, but was hitting what we wanted out to 1200yds once figured out the wind difference. I will keep hunting to what I feel comfortable at and where I believe my round still has massive energy to take down a big bull, but to reach out like that for fun was a good time.

[@johnkaraphillis754]

7PRC comes in at 600+ yards with heavier bullets. I’ll keep my .280AI and my son will stay with his 7mag since 600 plus yards does not come into a factor. Impressive ballistics I will admit along with A+ support from Hornady. Too bad 6.8 Western did not get any support. Thanks

[@brickhammerSS]

Is the 6.8 dead or something? I'm sure other companies will start to put out their own versions of 6.8 unless you know something I don't

[@johnkaraphillis754]

@@brickhammerSS I don’t know anything but I hope the 6.8 gets more support from Browning and Winchester. The 6.8 is theirs and I’m confident Hornady will not offer any long and heavy bullets because it’s not their cartridge. I’m impressed with the ballistics and it competes with the PRC’s.

[@cdavison9491]

The 6.8 has support, it's just semi hard to find. Just like 7mm PRC is hard to find.

[@michaelc9708]

How much of a difference is there between 6.8 western and 7prc ? In ballistics and recoil? Thanks

[@johnkaraphillis754]

@@brycen575 I’m rooting for the 6.8!

[@glockparaastra]

Love my 7x64 Brenneke. The 7PRC is definitely on my list. The 7mm Accubond LR bullets are so good looking 😂

[@jodystamper9105]

Good information gentleman, and I agree the 7mm prc is a very nice/interesting round, but at the end of the day for hunting in NC, I'll just keep my 270wsm. I've shot many, many deer with it and none have walked away, so, as long as I can get reloading supplies, that's what I'm going shoot. Grandpa always told me "you can only kill'em so dead". Funny thing is, now that I've gotten into my late forties, I haven't picked up a rifle in several years due to this thing called bowhunting. It has infected me terribly. That's all I want to do anymore cause the adrenalin rush is so much more intense, and the satisfaction of harvesting an animal at rock throwing distance is WAY better.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I understand your bowhunting passion, Jody! If you have the time.... It's adrenaline high.

[@ronaldjohnson1474]

Good to see Joseph & know he'll be on more! Great, honest review here. Been considering 7RM for a while, but, being retired military, you know the answer. May change!

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Go the 7mm-08. Great cartridge. Australia

[@ronws2007]

Great epsiode. I have a 7 PRC and I like it. I have a handful of .308s and thought I would never want anything else. But I like the SAAMI spec on 7 PRC. The requirements are such that regardless of the cost of the rifle, you have to have tighter tolerances. The free bore is minimal, for example. Less than 500 yards, whatever rifle you have will do the job. Just recently, Backfire got a black bear with his 6.5 Creedmoor Sig Cross by limiting his range to that of his optic. I have seen another person bring down a moose with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Our illustrious host, Ron Spomer, brought down an elk with a 7 mm Rem Mag (Mossberg Patriot.) That video, for some reason, is no longer public. I located it on another site and it is behind a private membership wall. Definitely agreed. If you only want to hunt shorter distances, you can stick with the 7 RM. But if you also want long range target steel, the 7 PRC is going to shine going past 500 yards over most. I think the maximum strike distance depends shooter and rifle. You could have a 1 mile rifle but that is only possible if the shooter is up to the task. I have had someone tell me that you cannot shoot at any animal past 400 yards. In which case, everyone should just get a .308 W with a fat and lazy 1:12 twist and even a cheap rifle getting 1 MOA will be more than fine. Approx 4 inch dispersion, the max that you want on a deer. Here is another hard-won secret at precision from any rifle. Zero and group in 1 shot. Sure, you can shoot twice or thrice. But adjust and let the rifle cool completely. Then shoot again. Why? In hunting, the first shot my be the only one you get. You don't need bull's eye on the tenth shot, you need it on the first shot.

[@The_Judge300]

The reality is that for practical hunting, will the 7 PRC make no difference over the / Rem Mag out to 800 yards. It is first when/if you want to shoot past 800 yards, that the 7 PRC start to show an improvement. And how many are skilled enough and willing to shoot at animals past 800 yards?

[@ronws2007]

@@The_Judge300 To answer your last question, I have seen a few make a kill shot farther than that. I have seen a guy in New Zealand shoot maybe not quite that far with a .300 WSM. However, for myself and the areas I can hunt, 300 yards is the max. But the performance of the 7 PRC is great. I happen to like the cartridge. but I also have some .308s that are good, as well. And sometimes, I go feral hog hunting with my 5.56. So, what limit are you going to impose upon people? I have received one answer from another person but, man, it took several posts to drag it out of him because he did not want to commit to a number.

[@The_Judge300]

@@ronws2007 Firstly have I killed further away than 1200 yards, but I would NEVER consider to shoot at an animal at that distance. Just because it can be done, it doesn't make it anywhere near being ethical hunting. The moment you start to get to around 800 yards and further, then there are so many factors that make it much more difficult to make a first shot clean kill. And in many cases that limit is at 500 yards. All depending on the skills of the person pulling the trigger the weather conditions and the animal. I don't have a problem if a hunter does it at 800 yards either if the weather conditions are good, the hunter is able to read the animal well and the hunter is capable of making that shot 10 out of 10 times. Personally I don't like to shoot at deer further away than 500 yards because of the travel time of the bullet and what can happen during the time from you decide to pull the trigger till the bullet hits the animal. Even if I know I can hit a target much smaller than the vitals of that deer at that distance and further. I have taken a few shots on deer at 700-800 yards with great results, but it felt more like killing than hunting to me. And often I feel that about shots outside of 300 yards as well. Any distance inside 500 yards I have no problems at all if a hunter decides to take the shot if he/she uses a cartridge powerful enough to kill cleanly at that distance and he/she is skilled enough for that distance. But the reality is that most hunters are not skilled enough with their guns to shoot at animals anywhere close to 500 yards. Plenty have enough problems with hitting a deer well inside 200 yards and even 100 yards. Sadly way to many hunters care way more about their own ego and the trophy than making sure they only take shots they are 100% they will make a clean kill with. People can brag as much as they want about what distance they managed to hit a target, but the moment they brag about how far away they managed to kill a deer at, they have totally misplaced their focus in my opinion.

[@ronws2007]

@@The_Judge300 So, you were a military sniper? 1200 yards but never shot an animal that far? My point is that the accuracy is a combination of rifle and shooter. The human is the least accurate part of the system. How far is a good shot? One at which you can make the shot and bring down the animal. Personally, I like having a rifle that shoots fairly flat and will hunt deer to 500 yards, the farthest that I would also feel comfortable at. But I could do long range target shooting with it, as well. And I do not see a problem with a rifle that does double duty. While some have hunted with match ammo, I would rather hunt with the specific hunting ammo that does more of the necessary work. I don't have any citations I can find of someone shooting at a long distance and not taking the harvest or missing completely. Other than the stories of Elmer Keith, who could rump shoot an elk at less than 300 yards with a straight wall round. So, I agree, the shooter makes the difference. I also look at the accuracy of the rifle, especially for the intended use. I do not shoot 20 times at a deer. I am going to be shooting once, maybe twice. So, I zero and group at 1 or 2 shots and then the barrel has to cool. I don't need the bull's eye on the first shot, I need it on the cold barrel first shot. And a follow-up that is less than 1 MOA. I have that. Take a 1 MOA rifle. You might have 1 MOA between first and second shot. Target area on a deer is about 8 inches. Limit rise and fall to 4 inches. That means only shoot out to 400 yards. That is also why I do not zero at MPBR. You have that rise and fall plus your dispersion of at least 1MOA for most rifles. You could still miss at 400 yards. So, I dial solutions. So, I can aim the cross hair at the exact center that I want and will be off by 1.047 inches at 100 yards or less. Or 4.2 inches at 400 yards. Still in the pie plate of heart and lungs, for example. I also understand that shooting at enemy agents is a different size of zone. But I am also not going to say that someone cannot shoot at an animal at 800 yards or so.

[@johnandchloeanderson4822]

Great energy on these shows with y’all working together. More please.

[@capt.martin5169]

You both make a great team! Lot of knowledge here, thanks!

[@KC-7mm]

Great to see you gentlemen collaborate you two my top two gun guys that i really listen too especially Joseph I really align with his views on guns and cartridges and to be honest I’ve messaged him with questions and he responded every time with always more of and answers than I’d expect from a busy man like himself. That being said excited of what’s to come.

[@Justin-pq3rq]

I’m happy with my .300 Win Mag. And my .270 Win for smaller stuff.

[@derekseiders3597]

Really enjoy watching both of you in the videos, excited for the future videos

[@deanroome5420]

7mm Remington Mag with 175 gr Nosler ABLR and Partitions is pretty good elk medicine.

[@chrisowen5497]

Interesting cartridge, and conversation. I like your explanations. I personally don’t shoot past 350 yards, so it really doesn’t appeal to me, but can see the market for it. Great video.

[@pb_zep3838]

It's fun to watch guys who are very knowledgeable in interesting subject, sit and talk 'shop'.

[@tommyj7087]

Gavin @ UR did a similar video and their conclusion was if you have a 7RM, stick with it. If you are going out to buy a 7 magnum, get the PRC. I like heavy for caliber bullets and it was a choice between a custom 7RM and an off the shelf PRC. I went PRC. Great video, glad to see the addition of Joseph to some of your videos. I have only recently run into him in print and social media and I like his approach and it seems to be a great marriage. Keep up the good work!

[@user-hd8md6rq1m]

Great video from two likeable, knowledgeable guys. But I think you're forgeting the limitations of most of us under pressure and in rough conditions. Hunters, limit the range of your shots. The rules of ethical treatment of animals has not changed. I'm not blaming a gut shot at extreme range on mouse droppings.

[@tudyk21]

Thank you for this video. It clears up a lot for me and makes me realize that the rifle I have is plenty for what I do or plan to do.

[@user-zp1tr3gh2l]

Heck withe the scope , I'm going to mount me One of those Doolar Radair things.

[@user-ds9eq8zx2n]

Great video! Love it when y’all get together to talk over cartridges

[@Twistedoff2]

Thank-you both for the video and thank-you to Hornady for sponsoring it. Is the 7mm PRC better than the 7mm Rem Mag? Yes but not by a whole lot. Probably more accurate due to the reasons mentioned. Is it the top 7mm? I don't think so. If I were buying, it would be the 28 Nosler. It's faster with the same bullets. I'd have the same problem with finding ammunition but I reload. Still, all 3 are great choices for 7mm. Now we need some heavier bullets to shoot out of them!

[@hardball107]

Personally I hate the belted magnums. I had a 7mm and a 300 and both shot like crap, they were just a waste of money for me but this was before as a handloader for 50 years we started headspacing off the shoulder. Since, I have loaded for friends with the 7mm Mag and at best they were 1.5" rifles or so. My son just bought a 7mmPRC in a Ruger American Go Wild and it's a tack driver. I download Hornady 139's for him and this season he's taken 2 large whitetails DRT, just bang-flop. I broke it in and on sighting the Vortex glass it was printing .5moa groups at 100 yards, I have no problem with that especially in a hunting rifle. He's hoping for an Elk hunt in the next few years and he will be using that Ruger in 7PRC for sure.

[@patrickd2013]

Another Outstanding presentation, gentlemen!

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 After Further Review, The Best Hunting Advantages that I see that the 7mm prc has over the 7mm Remington Magnum is that it has a SAMMI Operating pressure of an additional 4,000 psi; can be chambered in a shorter barrel without losing as much velocity; and is able to use the more temperature stable powders that I like (H4831 and H1000) to much faster velocities with the heavier bullets! 👍🥳 I have no doubt that it will become an All Time Great Cartridge (Probably Surpassing the 300 wsm in Popularity, Another All Time Great Cartridge), but I still won't be giving up my 270 Winchester for either! 🤭 But, more on that for another day Ron! 🤣

[@Ultimatereloader]

Great discussion guys.

[@tammybier8263]

Thanks for the great explanation of the PRC from two good men.

[@nicholasbarcomb2324]

Never been a fan of belted magnums. Already have a 280AI, so no need for a 7mm PRC. I understand different flavors for different people. Good luck and stay safe!!! 😉😉😉

[@davidwright5389]

Great video and insight

[@frankmccarthy2624]

I hate excessive recoil. The 280 REM And 280 Ackley are just fine for me.

[@TommyboyGTP]

What about other existing 7's like 7mm Weatherby, or 7mm WSM? Do they still bear any relevance with the 7mm PRC now in existence?

[@cdavison9491]

They're all just as relevant at hunting distances. Thr PRC only has its slight advantages at extreme long distance.

[@tonydevich7937]

Can't wait to pick mine up!

[@lawrencelewis1036]

Good info here. If I remember right a faster twist rate also increases pressure, but only slightly.

[@jfess1911]

The pressure increase is surprisingly low until you get to extremely high twist rates like 1:4. Its effect on bullet velocity is also surprisingly minor according to tests done by Bryan Litz (author of Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting).

[@jameshunter3037]

agreed, in deep canyons with my 7mm rem mag the max I'll shoot on elk is around 500-600 yards, I like the norma oryx bullets, nosler partitions, swift scirocco, & barnes TTSX, I think my tikka T3x has a 1;9.5 twist rate. as a hunting tool only, its good enough out to 600y. one thing they forgot to mention is the cost difference, of course the 7mm RM is more affordable but not by much when it comes to occasional hunting. if I wanted a rig to hit targets out to 1 mile I wouldnt buy a 7mm prc. as theres better options

[@lovethehuntOutdoors]

We Love the bantering between you too fella's we learned from both perspectives and laugh as we go. Very informative to help us decide on a caliber option for the game we pursue. If we want to shoot elk and moose at distances ober 500 yards and hit them damn hard go with the 7mm PRC or the 300 win mag. Otherwise choose the 7mm Remington Magnum with rifles new and used available everywhere to include affordable ammunition off the shelf. P.S. the Elk will never know the difference. I spoke with several after the hunt and they all said the same thing! You got me at bang, big fella.

[@blakevangundy9562]

for tangent vs secant in the fluid dynamic spectrum: you can look at a rain drop and see the bottom potion is the tangent, following the curve of the tip to the shank while the tail is secant, following a straight line from the shank to the end of the bullet. each shows that, like u said aerodynamic stability/accuracy is obtained by the TANGENT FRONT, and maintained by the SECANT rear. hope this helps and if u have questions please ask

[@jfess1911]

I think you may have it backwards. The tangent part of a hybrid bullet is at the shank since modern rifling (1.5° half-angle) seems to work better with that shape. The front part of the bullet's ogive is extended using a secant profile.

[@DonSmith-mn6kw]

I I really enjoy watching your KZbin videos. Thanks.

[@Magnum_Express]

I'm always hesitant to buy a new chambering. I've seen dozens of so called "last cartridge you'll ever buy" rounds vanish into obscurity. The short mags, the compact mags, the ultra mags, the marlin express, etc. I like to give a cartridge a decade before I concede that it has staying power. The only gamble I ever took was on a 17HMR back in 09. One of the best gun buys I've ever made.

[@MrMillez]

Ron, don’t ever change. No BS and just honestly. 🙏

[@cjr4497]

Ron, you need to get Randy "The Real Gunsmith" on the show to talk bullet construction and 7mm's. He has a history with the 7mm, and developed his own magnum, the 7mm-404 Wapiti Express.

[@polish-hammer8365]

My 7mm rem mag has a 1/8 twist with a 26in barrel. I normally shoot 175gr eldx perfectly. Hard to find larger gr for 7mm but I’m sure it shoots 180 to 190gr just fine.

[@daveenriquez7790]

1-8 twist will certainly shoot those longer bullets very well. Is your rifle a factory offering or a custom 7mm Rem Mag? Also curious if your chamber is reamed out to fit the longer 175-180 bullets or if came that way in a factory offering? Thanks for your time.

[@dilligaf2818]

great informative vid.

[@stevenkimber4735]

Thanks for a great video. I would like to see a 7PRC vs 28 Nosler video with these two experts :)

[@bx7993]

Me too

[@mangrumpyold1871]

The 7PRC fits what I have wanted in a rifle for a long time a good hunting rifle for game 500 yards and in that was also capable of target shooting out to a mile. If I did not already have a 7mm mag I would probably get a 7PRC.

[@everythingloud4068]

I have had 2 problems with a cartridge chambering in my 6.8 western and both times it was a tiny piece of bark from going through thick brush

[@brett7794]

No sir high bc bullets are for fields they're too long for bush play u better be break out the 30 cal for that

[@perryknetter8577]

Great video Guys I really like my 30-378 weatherby

[@glennllewellyn7369]

I like your 30-378 too Perry. Australia

[@falconcowboy9995]

I like this show Jo is a great addition

[@elgato9534]

Love Rons channel. You guys rock too. I feel at home with you guys. We are becoming scarce 😢

[@blakebell6720]

Very good talk interesting fact though hornady released a podcast talking about chambers and the tight chamber actually all started with the 17 hmr

[@abbeybremner4162]

As a 270 shooter in New Zealand i hav’nt considered the 7mag held enough advantages for me but with a few more advantages of the PRC im pretty excited….

[@HondoTrailside]

Cool, though I believe the 30-06 and some other classic cartridges are basically perfect cases, and while there are all sorts of things that improve them slightly in a single direction, no net benefit. And just not getting caught up in the idea you will do better through cartridge obsession probably has more points in it than chasing small advantages into a corner where there is no ammo comparability. Imagine our supply security if everyone shot a variant of the 06 case.

[@abbeybremner4162]

Better bc and wind deflection. Flatter Trajectory. More energy down range. Bigger range of bullets. Sounds like a few viable advantages over your old 30 06 to me….

[@seventhmonkey458]

There is a 7mm PRC precision rifle in my future, but I'm a hand loader and always keep a lot of components at hand. Over the last few ammo panic shortages I"ve noticed that two cartridges are always available: 40 S&W and 7mm RM. Just something to keep in mind as the political pendulum swings.

[@TechieTard]

Because of this very truth, I will most likely end up with the 7mm. Let's be honest, things are not getting better with the communist around.

[@stanleyfrom]

Great Show!

[@rexhamilton6381]

I jumped on the 270 wsm bandwagon. I’m leary about getting another wonder cartridge.

[@Biggif01]

I was gifted a 270 wsm 15 years ago It's been a good rifle but damn does buying ammo hurt

[@rexhamilton6381]

@@Biggif01 I’d wait until Dicks had a buy one box get the second half off deal and stock up. 20 years ago it was $2.50 a shot. I don’t even see it on the shelves now.

[@realmetis8002]

​@@Biggif01I reload them

[@erroneous6947]

I feel you. I still have a .327 federal mag revolver.

[@rexhamilton6381]

@@erroneous6947 my condolences

[@relleknoj]

Thank you.

[@sinistersilverado965]

I bit the bullet and bought a 7mm PRC, I hunted for years with a 7mm Rem mag, but had trouble finding accurate loads, and don't like the belt.

[@thomandstacieverroad8417]

I have found hand loading my 7 mm rem mag with Barnes 175 gr. TSX to be the flattest shooting of the upper end of the 7 mag bullet weights. I don't know how much better the PRC would be but I'm interested to find out

[@erikleirmo9147]

Question Ron since you know so much about guns. I like the idea of a short barrel and want an X Bolt Speed 2 will the prc or regular perform better with a 22 in barrel?

[@majmarkmiranda]

I love my 7rm but I been considering a prc

[@johnbackman4475]

I always appreciate the concept of “ETHICAL HUNTING DISTANCES” these two and a few other podcasters champion. In our pronghorn group I suggest a 1000 rounds practice rifle shots yearly for every 100 yds past 300. At least 50 with the rifle you will hunt with (the rest could be rimfire or smaller centerfire bore. When EVERY practice shot is within a 6 inch target at the yardage you are at your maximum ethical range (regardless of wind). This accounts for the real world hunting conditions. This also varies by position; rare is the offhand shooter able to exceed 200 yds.

[@johnbackman4475]

If you still shoot a “flier” out of the 6” circle on occasion, even if you called it, you are past your limit.

[@csjrogerson2377]

So to shoot to 1000 yds, you need 7000 rds/year. That's 135 rds or 7 boxes every week. Are you insane?

[@johnbackman4475]

@@csjrogerson2377 i would consider it insane to shoot a game animal at that distance. Can anyone shoot 100 times at that distance and never have a round out >6 inches in a field condition?

[@johnlocke_1]

​@csjrogerson2377 he's insane. It's just a boomer making an outlandish comment on the internet. Pay him no mind.

[@rick9811]

Howdy Ron and Joseph! The 7MM Shooting Times Westerner would be almost an Apples to Apples comparison, maybe you could talk Layne into stopping by for a spell to discuss that fine cartridge! I don't own one but a few fellers and ladies like them out here in Idaho units 39, 44 and 45.

[@gbaughman3348]

I agree with Ron on long range hunting.

[@secondamendment8773]

I’m interested in the 7mm PRC as I’m planning on moving into long range target shooting and also doing some hunting. I’m looking at the Sig Cross magnum in 7mm PRC when it comes out. It’s light enough to take on hunts and I can weigh it down with additional weights for long range target shooting. I know that ultimately this will be a jack of all trades but master of none. If I end up taking a deep dive into long range target shooting I’ll need to move to a dedicated rifle but I’m thinking that this would be a good place to start. I’d appreciate any constructive input anyone has as I’d like to buy once cry once and not make a big mistake and have to keep spending $$$

[@lukeclement1310]

From a reloader and bullet weight standpoint yes I’d say it is. Plus it doesn’t have an outdated “belt”

[@hoffpbass]

And the 7mm-08

[@cabochris100]

Watched this a second time and my thoughts are using the 7PRC for normal hunting ranges. Say out to 400 yards. Wouldn't the PRC still have advantages over the Big 7? Possibly more inherent accuracy and less wind deflection? Also the use of a shorter 7 PRC barrel?

[@BlairStOnge]

I’ve got a 1 in 8.5 7mm Rem Mag that can stabilize the long 175gr bullets.

[@CalebDiT]

Relatedly, NASA was once designing a craft to be hurled to some great distance in space and there was some disagreement. Some engineers came back with a long, cylindrical shape to the body that would be spun on its long axis to keep it stable, while other engineers said it wouldn't remain stable. NASA went with the faulty plans, and sure enough the craft eventually stabilized in a tumble. From physics: Spinning objects always prefer to spin along their shortest axes. By the way, it was a delight to listen to y'all, together. I'm a fairly new shooter and I learned a lot in this video.

[@ajsomp]

So if more modern offerings for factory rifles are offering 1:8 twist for 7rem mag, do the benefits of the 7PRC in factory loads really make a difference? Generally curious because I’m split between a 7PRC and 7 rem (20” vs 22”) for a dedicated suppressed hunting rig

[@borisbuliak3626]

A little over 20 years ago I switched from 7 RM to 7-08 haven’t looked back. Only hunter deer a couple of times with a 139 Hornady sst. Dozens of feral pigs also strongly disagree never shot anything past 176yds

[@arlenscorse]

I hand load my 7mmRM with bullets ranging from 120gn to 175gn and they all load and shoot fairly well. How would the 7PRC with its long throat and fast twist do with bullet weights at 150gn or lower? Will it be just a heavy bullet shooter?

[@thedalillama]

Many hybrid chassis rifles offered in 7 PRC don't appear to be offered in 7mm RM and 280 AI. So, there's that.

[@OffGridHacks]

I agree that the PRC is probably a better preforming platform, but i am forced to ask if the significance is truely worth spending the money? The 7mm rem mag, 270 win are phenomenally tested platforms. I have used both with great success. Further, i typically use a 357 mag levergun for 90% of my hunting in thick woods. Often times my shots are closer than 60 yards. Sometimes simpler is better, or more pragmatic.

[@oldford71]

Great talk gents..

[@sylviacandler5541]

CC of water capacity between the 7 PRC and the 7 Rem mag are almost identical. 7 PRC is the 7 Mag in a different package. Check out the water capicty of both, odd that no one ever mentions this fact.

[@vervi1jw1]

It is thoroughly discussed in this video and why the prc has an advantage with heavy weight high BC bullets.

[@rgthomson1]

the ELD 180 is great out of my 284 at 2850 but when i put it in my WSM at 3080 it wont shoot for some reason I believe it does not like over 3000 fps and wonder if its that old problem of finding the tips limit

[@bestestusername]

There is also the variety of ammo to buy and store, I have a 7mag that does the job plus nearly 1 dozen other types so I will just watch the videos about it.

[@AppyInkDrinker]

I never had a 7mm rem mag but I did buy a Mossberg patriot in 7mm PRC and it’s awesome. I’ve been shooting around 350-400 yards as that’s as far as I can safely shoot it. My 308 is still my favorite rifle but the 7mm PRC is wicked and I plan to take it elk hunting this season if I’m fortunate in the draw

[@actionjksn]

What is the draw?

[@AppyInkDrinker]

@@actionjksn sometimes even on public land where I live you have to get a big game tag through a draw like a lottery

[@actionjksn]

@@AppyInkDrinker So if you don't win a lottery you don't get to hunt? That sounds pretty stupid.

[@solidrockofjesuschristmini2423]

7mm mag or 7mm prc they're both bad ass rifles, they don't drop as much as other cartridges and shoot lights out for any game in North America, I question the ppl that complain of recoil on 7mm bc when I shot it, it wasn't bad at all but you have ppl acting like it's blowing shoulders off or something

[@AppyInkDrinker]

@@solidrockofjesuschristmini2423 if I am honest, I thought the 7 prc was kicking really hard when I was shooting it, but then I shot my 12 gauge with a slug and that was more kick than the 7 prc no doubt.

[@44hawk28]

I'd also like to point out that it doesn't take a new cartridge in order to tighten up the tolerances on the chambers of old cartridges. Even as a military standard, the chamber for the 308 or 762 by 51. Can be much tighter and still be fully reliable. I would also like to point out, that as the bullets Lowe's in velocity, its rotational speed remains closer to constant. So if you adopt a mechanism of chambering all six/ 7 mm rifles to about seven to eight inches per rotation, you would have substantially better performing rifles overall. Tighten up the throat a little bit. Or your shoulder contact surface. Or put a belt on all the cartridges where it's actually held Center in the boar regardless of how sloppy the throat may very well be. As I said in my earlier explanation, the belt takes up a lot of the slop that the chamber allows by making the projector sit straight in the chamber, regardless of its cut. I also had no problem shooting the Hornady 140 grain Spire point. Which was longer and pointier than the Sierra that I originally loaded. That but it would still shoot the same .049 inch Center to Center spread of the Sierra Bullet.

[@johnking4221]

7PRC will shine is with the new shooter. They don't have the nostalgia attachment of the 7RM, and if you've got to buy a new gun to go on your first wenstern hunt, why by a 50 year old offering. I've never hunted out west where longer shots are possible and this have now rifles up to the challenge, so 7PRC is in my future.

[@ancientrenegade9243]

if they'd necked down a 300prc without shortening the case I would have been a convert for the few extra grain powder capacity over my 7 rem mag. I just cant see the point at this point the swap to a smaller case when I was getting .5moa out of my custom barrelled action anyway. interesting considering the barrel life on a 7 rem mag that the 7prc top listed point is about the rifle spec not the actual cartridge.... 7 rem mags run in a long action (which chamber 300 win mag bullets, even with a 190gr a tip a 7mm rem mag in a standard magazine will feed no problems at all.)

[@orr89rocz]

They wouldnt have done that since the 28 nosler already existed and a 7/300 prc would essentially be equal for all intents and purposes. The 28 nosler is fantastic but to shine it needs handloaded with heavies at longer COAL

[@ancientrenegade9243]

@@orr89rocz yeah, thats how i got my 7 rem mag to shine, faster twist barrel and a custom chamber cut. in all honesty the old girl does what i need and gets to a mile very well with 190gr a tips.

[@redrock425]

7 PRC isn't for custom 7RM owners. They are for the average buyer that wants custom-like performance with off the shelf gun and ammunition.