Is The Airbus A330neo A Failure?

[@goncalo3194]

You should have also talked about how Airbus was delivering the A330ceo until very recently with the last one being delivered in May 2020 to Aer Lingus so of course the orders are not going to appear in the beggining like on a clean sheet design but probably later in the life cycle when the most recent A330ceo's are getting on the older side.

[@vikneshwaran8606]

Word

[@HaveyoumetKen]

Flew on one and thought it was really comfortable. Extremely quiet and really comfortable. It's unfortunate it's not selling as well as they hoped.

[@thomass1620]

I could see Delta adding to their current a330neo order book when the older a330’s need replacement, they are already 20 something years old and Delta already operates 42 units respectively 11 of -200, 31 of the -300… 🤔👍🏼

[@External2737]

I see Delta grabbing cheap 2nd hand examples.

[@Sacto1654]

The important thing: the standardization of the A330-900neo with the 251t variant. This resulted in a plane that could fly as far as 7,200 nautical miles, and has found a market with several airlines.

[@lmlmd2714]

IMHO the A330neo was a really good move. It fits the gap between the A321 and A350 perfectly, and was available at just the right time. The A330ceo was and is an excellent design so there was no need to reinvent the wheel, just boost efficiency. Avoiding the expensive clean-sheet design has also made it cost competitive. I'd really *really* like to see Qantas order them to replace their A330ceo fleet. They're getting old now, but they're such lovely aircraft and the A330neo would be a real bonus for passengers. Gotta love the 2-4-2 layout

[@gregsmith3410]

Heard TAP wasn't happy with the performance of the Trent 7000 engines on their a330 neo fleet... Haven't heard other carriers complaining as of yet.. Being basically a bleed air version of the Trent 1000 on the 787 .. Looks like the Trent 1000 issues are behind them, .see if that transfers over to the 7000 version as well.!!

[@mariovieira838]

From what I know, in some planes of TAP fleet there's sometimes an odd smell in the cabin. The not so satisfied comment about the plane's engines was made by TAP's CEO (not on purpose, but coicdently one of the company's planes just took off. Some of them just sound like a buzz saw on take off power)

[@filledwithvariousknowledge2747]

If it does the A330neo will be in big trouble because customers will be wary of the engine type it uses

[@aalvesify]

They change engines too much often...

[@edwardwilcox6606]

As far as I`m aware T-7000 never suffered from issues that affected the T-1000 but in fact took on some of the uprated features of the T-XWB instead.

[@srbaiacu4140]

@@mariovieira838 yeah but its fixed now

[@BigDaddyLicious]

The A330Neo could have launched earlier. After the 787 took the market by storm, Airbus did mention a updated version of the A330 to compete with the 787. But Qatar Airways CEO Al Baker persuade Airbus to come with a clean sheet design to challenge the 787… hence the A350 which Qatar Airways became its launch customer. How ironic now with the current situation between Airbus and Qatar Airways over the A350 issue.

[@bradmacley2722]

Have to Take into account that before the neo the ceo was selling big before hand there was a couple of years where the ceo out sold the 787. And that was because of the delays of the 787.

[@loodwich]

Several companies with some routes with the original A330 to replace them prefer to upgrade to the A350 than A330NEO.

[@matsv201]

The great thing between A330 and A350 is that pilots can easily adopt between them. So what I think is that they replace the first A330 with A350 to increase capacity, but eventually they will bring in more 330neo to have a broader capacity span. A340 outsold the A330 early on also, but the A330 did eventually become more popular.

[@jonahboonyarit4715]

If you compare the A330neo to the 777x the A330neo is on 278 orders compared to boeings 341 (Although the 777x has been taking orders slightly longer) Also the A330neo has been flying for 3 years now and the 777x continues to experience lengthy delays. For the record i believe both planes will succeed just saying that it’s too early to call the A330neo a failure

[@erickelly3447]

That's not a good apples to apples comparison. They don't compete for the same Airline need.

[@jonahboonyarit4715]

@@erickelly3447 It’s not about that. The only thing I was comparing was the fact they’re both re-engined options of wide body aircraft yet one has been flying for far longer than the other despite being announced over a year after the 777x was

[@jonahboonyarit4715]

@@KaptnKork To be fair the A330neo has a completely new wing and cabin design aswell. Also the 777x should break even when the UA/AA/BA/ANA Come to the table.

[@mmm0404]

@@jonahboonyarit4715 new wing? Not entirely. I dont Think adding wing extentions necessarily translates to a completely new wing . My guess is it's not . With the 777X , the windows are enlarged , cabin widened by 4 inches , a completely new composite larger wing , and the cabin might recieve some reinforcements to allow for higher cabin pressures ( @6000 feet, like the 350 and 787) . I think the a330neo still maintains 8000FT cabin pressure like conventional airliners . Nothing much was done with the a330neo cabin The difference is with the 777X transitioning to an all composite airliner in the future , might be easier since Boeing have already gone through all the trouble of making a composite wing. In other words Boeing still sees a future in the 777 program The cheap investment in the a330neo means AIRBUS does not necessarily see a future in it , and could most likely be scraped in the future for an a350 derivative maybe

[@xaif4888]

@@jonahboonyarit4715 The A330neo does not have a new wing, it is extended along with a new winglet. The fuselage is still the same, the new interior cabin is not a huge deal.

[@RobertsonDCCD]

I think DJ makes a decent case for failure being relative to the investment in development. The primary lure of the A330neo seems twofold. First is how it gives carriers with the A330 classic an option to keep the fleet going and growing, and second is the price advantage relative to the 787. Witness how Delta has grown its small A330 fleet inherited from NWA by adding the neo and skipping the 787 altogether. DAL notwithstanding, I don’t think the A330neo has been a compelling reason to avoid the Dreamliner. Take American Airlines, who just 5ish years ago had the A330, 787, and 777 on the property with orders placed for the A350. The bean counters at AA did the math, and for them, the economics of a simpler fleet plus the operational savings of the 787 won the day. Airbus no longer has any place in AA’s widebody lineup. For the best answer to this question, I think you have to look 10-20 years into the future. I don’t think there’s anything Airbus can do with the A330 to threaten the success of the 787, except perhaps contain Boeing price increases. The exact opposite is in play for the narrowbody sector, where Boeing has milked the 737 well past its prime, and the A320 family, while old and limited itself, is still relatively superior.

[@vxllfire]

Airbus will definitely succeed with American carriers with the A321 XLR. The 787 is already too popular for the A330 to overtake, so Airbus doesn't really have a chance for the A330. Meanwhile the A321XLR is the only plane in the segment, since the 757 is not even in production anymore, and the upcoming 797 would probably take an entire decade or might never even happen. If the 797 does get produced, the A321XLR has already been well established in the market, just like the 787 did against the A330 Neo.

[@lmlmd2714]

I think one thing with the A330neo as well is that it allowed Airbus to respond to the 787 without having to take all the risks of a cleansheet design that could drag on for years and have a slew of QC issues like the 787 did, and it gives them a clear upgrade path the A330ceo operators that's available right now, leaving them all the time they need to come up with a clean sheet design once newer engines and technologies are more accessible.

[@miks564]

The A320 family might be old, but unlike the 737, they're fly-by-wire aircraft which means the new 'neos' get state of the art computers and updated software. You think you'll be buying an old design aircraft but its tech is completely modernized and up to date. ...and we even get some improvements in the winglets and also inside the cabin with better pressurization and more luggage space.

[@RobertsonDCCD]

@@miks564 Completely modernized tech? I can’t speak to how much they’ve changed the 400+ computers that run behind the scenes, but I can speak to the bits you see and touch. Walk into the cockpit of a neo and it is difficult to tell the difference between it and a 321ceo. I can tell because they added a small screen for CPDLC operations, but everything else looks alike. That’s not a critique-unlike the 737, the 320 cockpit isn’t hopelessly outdated. Could it be a little nicer with some bigger screens like the A350? Sure. Where Airbus struggles a bit more is probably the wing, which could really benefit from a redesign. Even with the far better neo engines, it’s still a relatively slow Mach .80 aircraft that tops out at FL390. I would also like to see Airbus follow Boeing’s lead on bleedless engines, but that will clearly have to wait for a clean sheet design. You also mentioned better pressurization, but I’m unfamiliar with anything that has changed in that system-can you describe?

[@miks564]

@@RobertsonDCCD Of course they change all the 7 main computers. You don't believe they're installing old computers on the NEO. Where would they find the parts? The thing with fly-by-wire aircraft is that they can keep updating the fleet. A brief google search between CEO and NEO provided the following: "The cabin has seen several improvements, both technologically and ergonomically. These features include better pressurization, greater luggage space, and noise reduction systems. Passengers can also enjoy LED lighting and a modern seating design for greater comfort."

[@aussiedude2034]

DJ failure is a strong word - particularly when you look at a “slice” of info you choose to compare. Let me give you a different spin… Total A330 orders = 1,764. - 1,466 A330ceo delivered & 89 A330neo delivered ( 278 A330neo orders) Total B787 orders = 1,509 - 1,027 delivered as of Nov 22 Dev cost for A330neo - $2 billion - btw there were more than engine tweaks - how about the whole new carbon fiber wing? And the A330ceo had more than paid back Dev costs already. Dev cost for B787 - $32 billion - but that doesn’t include the 10 variant! A330neo dev cost recovery per unit $7.2 million B787 dev cost recovery per unit $21.1 million (based on total orders not what’s been delivered so far) There are so many twists and turns when you compare these 2 aircraft from seat cost to maintenance to fleet commonality to passenger experience and finally airline missions all making up what we call success of an aircraft. And as someone else pointed out - replacement cycle will be the ultimate test. Do airlines opt to order A330neo to replace their A330ceo at this time or not?

[@vikneshwaran8606]

Oh wow, i did not know that the 32 Bil did not cover the 10 variant. Also, including all the extra costs and fines due to the multiple delays with the 787, I think it is way way higher than the 32B. I heard that they also sell 787s at dirt cheap prices to airlines who consider a330neos (I am not sure how accurate this is though). With a 2B cost, why doesn't Airbus employ the same tactics? Is it because they are still confident that the airlines with the CEOs will turn to the NEOs as a replacement one day or they just refuse to play dirty? Havent flown on an A330NEO yet but ive read many great passenger reviews. Looking forward :))

[@FLT111]

I suspect Aer Lingus, Finnair and SAS will be the next carriers to ordef the A330-900neo to replace their existing A330s.

[@zionismisterrorism8716]

Those airlines might opt for the A350 instead.

[@richardbriansmith8562]

Awesome Video dj's aviation

[@xaif4888]

Failure is not the correct terminology here at all, I think as others have mentioned actual numbers and detailed facts would benefit here (development costs vs. orders, extent of redesign vs. a clean sheet, etc.). Please take this as constructive, but the conclusion at the end of the video was kind of a non-conclusion. One of the most important aspects of a manufacturer's catalogue is that there are no gaps when compared to the competition for airlines to exploit. The smaller variants of the 787 had no real modern competitor until the A330neo, and airlines could capitalise on that in negotiations. It's also one of those intangible aspects of the A380, it pretty much killed the 747 and stopped airlines saying to Airbus "but you have nothing as big as Boeing", even if they never intended to buy one! That is despite the A380 never making back its development costs directly. All in all, keep going buddy, it's been great to see you flourish over the years!

[@Never2Late8]

Giving RR Trent 7000 exclusivity was a huge mistake.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

In your opinion. Fortunately Airbus know the aircraft business & are fully aware that the T7000 is a very good engine. They also knew T700 was the best engine of the three offerings on the A330Ceo, so it may have been a natural & positive even easy choice to make.

[@norm5392]

As was announced today, the -800 is going to be the new platform for the MRTT+. Airbus didn’t spend all that money developing the airframe to sell just a dozen jets.

[@ivanviera4773]

The 330 Neo still its a young plane it enter service in 2018 so it remains to be seen if orders pick up. The Neo has a higher wing aspect ratio than the Ceo also its not just engines.

[@andyvu4577]

330 Neo (900) is good for customers in Medium haul routes since some of airlines start using a321LR/XLR for those routes. Better customer comfort. Even with 330-800, low cost airlines could operate long haul routes with high density configuration

[@Amrdau]

And of course all economy, like Lion Air do today on some of A330s.

[@mjoelnir1899]

The A330neo is just a new version of the A330. Up to now it has sold 278 frames with 91 delivered. But that is only part of the story, because the A330 family has been sold 1,764 times with 1,555 delivered. the 787 has sold 1,488 frames with 1006 delivered. Most of the time Airbus competed with the A330ceo against the 787. If we start in 2011, the year the 787 had it's first deliveries, 805 A330 were delivered against 1,006 787. The 787 has both to sell and deliver quite a few more frames to catch the A330 in numbers.

[@mmm0404]

1488 was before the united order of 200 ( including 100 options) . The a330 program started in the late 1980's , and airbus had already broken even when the early 2000's arrived . This ment that the a330 could be sold at a much lower price , keeping margins thin but still profitable. Since the program was already profitable , airbus could offer steep discounts to sell the 330 and that's exactly what they did more especially after the 787 was launched . That's why they sold tons of them . Boeing probably did the same with the 777-300ER's ( 77W) , still selling tons of them even after the a350 was launched. The 77W has sold close to 800 Frames , and there is still a tiny backlog left .

[@mjoelnir1899]

As one does not include options, when one talks about orders, you should talk about 100 orders. Options are options, orders are orders. Yes the A330 broke even a long time ago, but being sold cheaply is a myth. Because the A330 broke even a long time ago, an engine upgrade does not take many sales to break even again. Whereas the 787 has not broken even jet. The A330 has been a money maker for Airbus. You can not say that about the 787 for Boeing.

[@mmm0404]

@@mjoelnir1899 well I was talking about the a330ceo , but ok

[@mjoelnir1899]

@@mmm0404 Was I not talking about the A330ceo? The main point is, that the neo is only a new version of the A330. So to compare the sales of the A330neo with all sales of the 787 is a bit silly.

[@mmm0404]

@@mjoelnir1899 I don't think you get me , I said the a330 ceo sold very well more especially after the 787 was launched , over 600 frames were sold . If the a330ceo did not sell well in that time period because it was cheap then why didn't it sell just as well before the 787 launch? The 787 already outperforms the a330neo , so there is no way the a330ceo would have sold that well unless airbus was offering steep discounts. I'm not saying this is wrong . Boeing most likely did the same with the 777-300ER's especially after the a350 was launched . Boeing sold close to 900 777-300ER/200LR's since 2004 . My point is not to compare sales of the 787 vs the a330 family , just pointing out how the ceo sold so well

[@tsikinite]

Guys the plane entered service 2018 you can't declare this statement yet

[@simonm1447]

The main purpose of the 330 Neo is to put pressure on the price tag Boeing can charge for 787s, if they go too high the 330 Neo is a economic alternative. So it's a success (the program cost was less than 10 % of the 787 program) even if it's not a best seller

[@schalitz1]

From a customer's perspective the neo just doesn't make sense unless you already have a330 ceos. The niche is its biggest flaw. Take Air New Zealand for example their 787s fly everything from Auckland to Perth, all the way to Auckland to NYC, the range capabilities of the 787 just make it a more useful aircraft.

[@miks564]

The range of the A330 is not that far off of the 787

[@Evergreen_nih]

The A330-800neo is very heavy at 251 tonnnes with a very long range of over 15,000 km. That range is too much. If Airbus would reduce the range and weight of the A330-800neo to 12,000 km and 215 tonnes respectively may be the aircraft will be attractive to airlines.

[@anthonydecastro6938]

you need to put on stats. no mention of how many exactly have been sold. when was the neo put out relative to the 787. numbers count. aircraft manufacturers build airplanes as replacement for older models. so how many airlines have shifted to Boeing for example... if DJ wants this channel to be a serious one, with hard nosed analysis, data and facts, then really the channel should avoid using generalized terms. get into the details, the numbers, the points of comparison, etc. it's all very wordy but sometimes just sound signifying not much. in short, the channel should really do a much better job at doing research!!!

[@danharold3087]

There is a subtly here that needs examination. When a me-too plane is launched it's sales life is likely to end about the same time as the equivalent plane that has been selling for years. This is not true if the late launch plane is significantly better . Not a me-too.

[@miks564]

@@danharold3087 The A330neo is significantly better than the A330 ceo, the model it replaces. ...and with time sales will reflect precisely that. The pandemic just slowed down the eager from the companies to replace their aging fleet.

[@danharold3087]

@@miks564 I hope it does reflect that. Only time will tell. Too many factors to say a plane will sell more because it is 'better'.

[@miks564]

@@danharold3087 You are right. But we expect the old A330 ceo fleet to be replaced sooner or later and changing to 787s will only be an option for companies having already Boeing certified pilots and Boeing maintenance facilities. Changing for A350s is quite a step up in terms of acquisition cost. My bet goes for the A330neo for operational costs alone. To me, the A330 neo has only one big problem: The exclusivity on the R&R engines.

[@danharold3087]

@@miks564 I agree 100% I want to see the Ultra Fan in the air. RR needs a win on this engine.

[@neilpickup237]

Reading through many of the comments, it appears that too many (from both camps of fanboy) do not understand what success is, or that success for an airline and success for a manufacturer are not the same thing. For an airline, while the seat cost does matter, as it certainly helps the profit margins, and is so often used to support an argument, the trip cost is just as important, but often (deliberately?) ignored. At different loading levels, on different routes, the 'winner' may not always be the same. We also have the volume of freight carried and the contribution it makes, something which is rarely mentioned. Apparently, some routes can generate a healthy profit with a wide body when a 737 or A320 would be sufficient for the number of passengers. So far as the manufacturers are concerned, success and failure are far easier to define. It is a failure if it doesn't make a profit. A simple calculation that can be manipulated to hide or exaggerate the truth. Quite simply, it is whether the return over and above the cost of production has or will cover the costs of development and in-service rectifications borne by the manufacturer. While I was unable to find the break even number for the A330neo, few will question that it will be a fraction of the number required for the 787. What does appear to be apparent is that the 'better' 787 hasn't yet achieved break even, and there are suggestions that it might never do so, or at best be a disappointment. While the A330neo may only have the advantage of price, that advantage makes it harder for the 787 to generate the margins required to guarantee its financial success. It could be said that real life is far more complicated and nuanced than any fanboy is prepared to accept.

[@syedputra5955]

Now with 9 abreast, neo 800 maybe able to sell more. Otherwise,the a330 800 neo has just slightly more capacity than a321.

[@aydoyt]

I wouldn't say the A330neo is a failure compared to say the A318 and A380, however I do think it hit the market a bit late as many potential A330neo customers instead opted for the 787 as it hit the market at the right time, such as Qantas, Delta and Qatar just to name a few.

[@miks564]

There are plenty of 330 ceo flying out there. All of them potential buyers of the neo. Some will switch for the 787, others will take a step forward and go for the A350, but I believe most will go for the 330neo.

[@edwardwilcox6606]

You need to be informed a little better as Delta went with A330Neo not B787.

[@mmm0404]

@@edwardwilcox6606 and they probably have some regret. They have dozens of 767s that need replacing in the next few years , and 787-8/9 would have been perfect for that. Their only option now is the much less efficient a330-800, and the much heavier a330-900

[@edwardwilcox6606]

@@mmm0404 I`d be the last person to question Delta on their choice of aircraft. They have huge experience on running a profitable airline & that includes choosing the aircraft that`s right for them. Delta have been running A330`s for some years & it`s obvious that they like them for a reason & while I`m not privy to that information as someone who has flown on many A330 aircraft I can`t fault it. For the `If it ain`t Boeing I ain`t going` crowd Delta`s choice may well be infuriating but fortunately for the aircraft enthusiast having different types of aircraft in service is what makes flying interesting.

[@Tpr_1808]

​@@mmm0404You'd be lying when you say "much less" don't forget new engines use the latest tech as well

[@TheWolfHowling]

Failure, as stated, is quite a strong word. I’d say the the A330neo has been underwhelming, or even disappointing but not an outbound failure. Especially since is cost Airbus basically nothing, like pennies on the dollar to develop the neo compared to a clean sheet replacement

[@delta_cosmic]

Yes, A330neo - 800 is a true failure but the A330neo - 900 is actually a winner

[@user-yt198]

Mere existence of A330-800 cost Boeing hundreds of million dollars in Hawaiian Airlines project. There can be other cases that we don't know. Sometimes you win by making your competitor lose money.

[@user-yt198]

@@sainnt There are 1000+ units of Ceos still flying. Most of them will be replaced with Neos when they are retired.

[@user-yt198]

@@sainnt Hahaha. You say Boeing will lose money and still win. Are we talking about the same Boeing? The greedy, money hungry company?

[@erickelly3447]

@@user-yt198 I'd say close to half will become 787 or A350 orders. Both are newer models that have more room for enhancements in efficiencies and customer appeal.

[@user-yt198]

@@erickelly3447 That is possible. 1500 units of 330ceos have been delivered. Half of it makes 750 already.

[@MrSchwabentier]

Well, from a purely business viewpoint it is actually a bigger success than the 787. Airbus already earns money on the A330neo. Boeing hasn't earned a single Dollar on the 787 so far despite more than thousands being sold. In terms of market share of course the story looks different

[@prasenjittripura4691]

😂😂😂😂 cry baby,,,, airbus still couldnt recover from A380 disaster

[@MrSchwabentier]

@@prasenjittripura4691 wow, what a mature argument...

[@odeiraoloap]

Is it? Because *current* A330 operators like Hawaiian, China Airlines, and LH are *getting 787s and NOT the NEOs* replace their A330-200 and -300s! Every new plane Boeing sells is one less sale for Airbus. Who's really laughing all the way to the bank, then?

[@MrSchwabentier]

@@odeiraoloap simple answer: At the moment(!) yes. Because Airbus earns money and Boeing doesn't. That can of course change in the future. But break even for the 787 was expected at 1500 and that was before the deliveries were stopped for a year. So its still a long way to go. Again, a purely business point of view. In the grand scheme of things you would probably also have to include both the A350 and 777X into the equation because its more complex than 787 vs A330neo. Overall the 787 is of course the better aircraft in almost all aspects. But the A330neo poses a problem in terms of pricing for Boeing as they are forced to sell the 787 at a lower price than they would need to otherwise

[@markiangooley]

I flew on an A330ceo MAN-ATL in 2018 and it was fine: I can completely understand the A330neo being produced. Newer interior, more-efficient engines, entirely reasonable. Definitely not sexy but should be serviceable.

[@csk4j]

Great!

[@kkrsnn5632]

An A300neo would have been a real hit I suppose

[@narrowistheway77]

Pretty sure the 330neo is meant to replace aging 767’s rather than compete with the 787

[@radhakrishnannair2143]

I think could not spread across due to A_350 first model small in size/ equal to A330 Neo. I think another set back one of the CEO of famous air line criticize safety issues of A_350 & question to Air bus & EASA . End of the the day A330 Neo will pick up buisness deal . Indian carrier entered with whide body aircraft, I believe they placed order for A _330 Neo. Same company have highest order for A_320 / Neo . They are in good profit making airlines. May I believe whole world is watching growth of an airline from A_320 with good profit to international whide choosen to A330 Neo. I strongly believe A_ 330 Neo will spread across as a best aircraft by next year. With a note aircraft weight can be reduced by using composite materials for wing / THS/ VS & may be rearranged avionics bay . Definitely in fuselage not possible, due to certification issue. Hope for the best. Cheers 🥂🥂🍷🍷.

[@Dan.d649]

I think the A350 is a better airplane then the A330 NEO. But that's only my opinion, because I think the Boeing 787, and the A350 are in a total class by themselves.

[@thyip6167]

No, I think that some of the existing A330ceo customers, including the Cathay Pacific Group, the HNA Group, Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, EVA Air, Thai Airways, Malaysia Airlines, Qantas, Asiana Airlines, the Lufthansa Group, Iberia, Air France, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Australia, Scandinavian Airlines, Finnair, and Qatar Airways should order both this family of aircrafts to renew their existing fleet.

[@philippedays6100]

qantas will apparently order boeing 787-10 to replace its a330s

[@thyip6167]

@philippedays6100 Why did they apparently select this aircraft over the Airbus A330neo?

[@philippedays6100]

@@thyip6167 it’s much more efficient and technologically advanced than the a330neos.

[@thyip6167]

@philippedays6100 However, the Airbus A330neo also has some benefits over the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, such as: •Lower price and maintenance cost •Common cockpit and type rating with the A330ceo, which reduces training and transition costs for pilots •Wider cabin and more space for passengers and cargo •Higher maximum takeoff weight and payload capacity

[@philippedays6100]

@@thyip6167 airlines prefer cost per passenger per mile.

[@thomaschung8557]

Lol watching this on Delta’s A330neo. It’s a nice plane!

[@wadehiggins1114]

It's definitely not a failure. CEO customers will start placing orders soon.

[@michaelosgood9876]

Failure? Ridiculous! No more a failure than the Boeing neo, the 777x, in case you haven't noticed.

[@AdriantheSpotter]

the 777x has outsold the A330neo though, and that’s considering the 777x is for a very specific market.

[@michaelosgood9876]

@@AdriantheSpotter Boeing has not sold very many more 777x than A330neos. The A330neo has done particularly well given the competition it has in the marketplace. 777x has less competition so should be way out in front of A330 neo in terms of orders. But it's not moving like it should be

[@samuelbarringer715]

The Airbus a330 NEO had more sales than the Boeing 767 400er.

[@vorlonb3]

No its isnt a failure, the -800 is disappointing, in nos, but -900 is doing well for environmentally and fuel efficient NEO.

[@Haywood-Jablomie]

Invijid !!! Envisioned*** lol

[@نادرالیراحمان]

Most Airbus 330 classics are still to new to be replaced. In the meantime the Airbus 350-900 has beaten the B787-10 in orders more or less. So there is victory on both sides.

[@mmm0404]

The a330 does not compete with the 787-10 but rather the 787-8/9 The 787-10 is in the same class as the a350 and 777

[@joshuafeig5411]

A330neo 800 should go cargo plane

[@cvt-4u267]

Possibly... But they'll have to convince the cargo carriers it's a viable option... Considering the 330 f ceo was a major disappointment in the market. ..!!

[@miks564]

The A330neo can travel up to 7200nm. That's a *long range* aircraft in my book.

[@Kliffy77]

No!

[@pacsunzr2]

good plane made better @ lower operating cost....never made to overtake 787 sales

[@narrowistheway77]

It’s definitely only really meant to give customers with aging 767’s and older 330’s a new option to order as a replacement

[@jaleesawan9376]

The 800 is and the 900 isn't

[@jtcali2086]

The sheer COPE coming off the AB fanboys in here...lol. Jeez...

[@miks564]

There's a huge difference between the 787 being a better aircraft than the neo in many aspects and saying the A330 neo is a failure. The A330neo is a very good aircraft, despite being inferior to the 787 in some aspects, it can also be better on others (maybe because it's 8 years newer) and it will be a success replacing the old A330 ceos. I suspect many here suspect the companies are going to replace the aging A330 ceos with 787s and A350. I say, a minority will, the vast majority don't. The reason will be cost of acquisition and operation (maintenance included of course).

[@matsv201]

Airbus need to act fast and make a shrunk A350. Day a 80% scale A350 just shy of the size of a A330 to make a real competitive plane. A full composite A330. While that would cost more then a reengine. It should still be fairly cheap. They also need to think about the future and look at making a A360. A say 120% scale A350, with a full 10 wide upper deck and a lounge L1011 like lower deck. They also need to make a A350-1100 to just be in the market with the 777x

[@nathd1748]

Airbus will have a better hand coming than that in next 2 years. Rolls Royce are almost at test stage for the Ultrafan. Once they get this stage out of the way and have a scaleable geared turbofan, the Trent series will be discontinued and all future Airbus will have the Ultrafan. Even the A320 series will get an offering. It will beat the P&W GTF on fuel by 8% easily.

[@matsv201]

@@nathd1748 well of cause. But it would make more sense preparing now aircraft for those engines then just reengine old once.

[@miks564]

Absolutely no need. The A330neo is a perfectly good aircraft and it will be a success replacing the aging ceos.

[@stephenjacobs5640]

yea not to many orders but please take a look at the extremely cheap development costs compared to something like the 787 💀

[@stoje8405]

A330NEO : $2B B787 : $32B bruh 16x more🗿🗿

[@twinchantillytiffanysbenny8852]

Airbus’ tag line, “to late to the party”! Always in Boeing’s shadow. The a330 has been a somewhat of a good airplane. My favorite airline flys the a330. But has bought a huge order of Dreamliners! Can’t wait to fly Hawaiian’s new 787s.

[@miks564]

Airbus was 20 years late to party with the A320 family...

[@TWOCOWS1]

compared to its rival: Boeing 787 Dream Liner, this is more of a yesterday than tomorrow

[@potxiusupfotalongkorn3237]

It is a failure. Why? Because simply, 787 is far more superior than this. 787-8/9/10 is: 1. Far more efficient. 2. Flies much further, even surpassing the A350 3. Much newer hence more technologically advanced. 4. Burns much less fuel. 5. Much more attractive and appealing to plane enthusiasts and even non-plane enthusiasts A330 cannot match the capabilities of 787 it intended to rival. Maybe the A330 can atleast nearly match the older 767 but not the 787. That is why there is a lot of 787s as compared to A330s.

[@heidirabenau511]

The A350 flies further than the 787

[@nntflow7058]

Small correction: A350's range is larger than any B787. And A330-900neo burn less fuel on routes shorter than 4,000nmi.

[@jonahboonyarit4715]

I’m no expert but I doubt airlines ever consider how attractive and appealing it is to plane enthusiasts (other than the 747) . I mean look at the A380, Easily the most popular plane in the sky in terms of passenger comfort and appeal but still culled pretty brutally

[@stayminty2682]

Wrong the a350 has a longer range than 787 A350 900 can fly more further than 787-9 or 787-10

[@nathd1748]

You talk utter SHITE. Airbus do no expect 1000 orders in an instant. It has taken the original 20 years to get past that number. Secondly Airbus offer the A330 platform for the military Air-to-air tanker so keeping the line open was necessary for that as well. If you look at the numbers given by Airbus for the NEO programme and focus on Airbus' own figure for break even of the programme (80 units against the A350 at....350 units unbelievably) you will see that it is certainly NO FAILURE!!

[@incediery]

Orders are only part of what makes an airframe a success or failure...airbus spent just 2 billion on the A330neo versus the 30+ billion boeing spent on the dreamliner... Boeing needs to sell 500+ more airframes just for the program to break even...the Neo with just its current backlog may have already broken even.... all these airframes flying and you made no money just who's the failure here

[@mmm0404]

Airbus spent around 30+ billion on the a380 program thou , production seized a while ago . 500+ more sales for 787 is very realistic , infact its inevitable .

[@incediery]

@@mmm0404 I believe we're talking about the A330neo sir we know the A380 was a failure.... I don't doubt that Boeing would be able to secure 500 more orders but by that time the A330neo would've sold another 50 airframes and made a profit while Boeing was just breaking even... Again just who's the failure here??? Certainly not A330neo

[@mmm0404]

@@incediery in other words you are saying the a330neo is a more successful program than the 787? OK

[@incediery]

@@mmm0404 the question was is the A330neo a failure? It could never be a failure if Airbus manages to make a profit.... the A330neo current backlog if fulfilled already exceeds 2 billion (development costs) even with discounts.... The 787 however 11 years flying and 1000+ airframes sold made zero profit so far... Orders mean crap if you're not making money just saying

[@mmm0404]

@@incediery depends , from a sales point of view it is a failure , from an investment point of view it is not , but it is still not a cash cow . It is not a program that can generate airbus alot of money . The 787 program might have not broken even yet , Boeing said 1500 sales was the break even point . That was before covid anyways , but let's say that break even point shifts to 1700-1800 sales , thanks to all the recent 787 mess and covid . 1700-1800 sales is still very achievable ( 2500+ potential) , since the 787 currently sits at around 1600 orders now. Meaning the 787 program still has potential to be a cash cow for Boeing unlike the 330neo . Given that the 787 is made of composite also gives the program longevity, just like the a350 . In other words, there still alot of time for the 787 to break even and generate way more revenue than what the a330neo can offer . I doubt the a330neo will be there in the 2040's , the opposite may be the case with the 787 and a350 .

[@a_man_has_no_name]

The 787 is much more efficient and can fly further than the A330neo not to mention that it's equally priced(regardless that airlines never actually pay list price). The dreamliner killed the neo just like the B777 killed the A340

[@vxllfire]

It is quite opposite in the narrowbody segment, specifically the long-haul narrowbody segment. The A321 XLR is not even flying yet but the order books for the aircraft are being flooded by costumers. The 757 is not even being produced anymore, and the 797 would probably take a decade or two, might never even happen too.

[@miks564]

Much more? Not really. The 787 is more efficient and can fly slightly further than the A330neo. ...And finally they're not equally priced.

[@a_man_has_no_name]

@@miks564 A330-900's list price is $296.4 million and can fly a maximum of 7,200 nm, B787-9's list price is $292.5 million and can fly a maximum of 8,500 nm. on paper the 787 is cheaper and can fly 1300 nm (2,407km) further. I don't see where your argument comes from

[@marcoducceschi3849]

Look at Virgin Atlantic it is getting A330neo and has A350-1000 it also has B787-9 in the future it will get rid of the Boeings and become a all Airbus fleet

[@arthurcuervo8404]

"In the future" are you the CEO?

[@nickolliver3021]

Where is the evidence they will get rid of tne boeings?

[@marcoducceschi3849]

@@nickolliver3021 Virgin Atlantic is controlled by Delta Airlines which has is planning all Airbus wide body fleet so Virgin will follow to make it easy for cross selling and market it as one airline

[@nickolliver3021]

@@marcoducceschi3849 Virgin has no intent of letting go of their 787s. That's correct but Virgin has their own say and decisions to make of what aircraft they would order in future and still want to use.

[@ihsanullahkhan3422]

American propaganda

[@larryblanks6765]

I don't trust airbus planes.

[@aalvesify]

It's the poors A350 with unreliable engine derivative from 787 Trent 1000...