Is the Atomos Shogun Worth Buying for the GH4?

[@Yavor54]

Did extensive tests this week - and I can tell you that the GH4 output has more detail when using the Ninja Assasin - than 8 bit from the camera - at ANY of the Assasin data rates/codecs. The extra color info isn't just a help when grading....it presents more information..and that looks like detail to the human eye. It's not subtle... it's obvious. If you can afford the Ninja and the file sizes...and you want the best quality because your video will be showing somewhere other than on the net, $1000 is worth it. Don't forget, trying to judge focus etc off the GH4's LCD is dicey. I shot several test clips that I thought were in-focus using the GH4 LCD.. and they were NOT sharp.

[@BampFilm]

Of course you couldn't see a difference, the GH4 natively shoots a delivery codec, this (was) is a non log gamma image that's no different to the mastered image you see on a Blu Ray movie, of course the externally recorded file looks exactly the same (what was you expecting to see?). I'm making assumptions here but you don't have a 10 bit reference monitor for "grading" do you?.... if not, again, what was you expecting to see? In context you have an 8 bit computer display, how would it be possible for you to just see the difference?. What you could have done is test the captured codec by shooting a high contrast (and measured scene) and seeing if the better codec could cleanly recover shadow detail and where does that fail to noise, maybe show a blow up of the noise pattern and see what that means for denoise programs, highlights will not be that different but you could do a channel stress test and see if the 8 bit is more prone to chroma clipping than the 10 bit file and of course, a simple green screen test of the 8 bit and 10 bit footage would reveal a little more. Don't forget that the Shogun has a LUT facility that it can record, you could find the sweet spot in the camera, example, if the camera is 1 stop under exposed and the footage digitally pushed back up gives more dynamic range to the highlights you could create a LUT from those test's, load that into the shogun to give you a recorded image with a wider dynamic range. Caleb, please, you have a little influence here, don't make big statements without a real test of the system, you've treated it as a monitor and not the DIT tool that it is.

[@jamesroddy1843]

I feel the Shogun has been a life saver for me shooting in the field. I own an A7s and a GH4. I originally bought the Shogun because I wanted the 4K capabilities with the A7s, so having it also for the GH4 was kind of an extra bonus feature. I agree it's not totally necessary for recording externally, unless you want to cut time off transcoding. However, I feel it's VERY necessary for getting a true reading of what your image will look like. External monitors should not be something to go cheap on, I learned this the hard way on a film shoot. I kept thinking the image the $100 monitor was giving me was correct, and I ended up with an underexposed film I had to dump later on because the footage was unusable. The Shogun has MANY more features than just recording externally, and they're constantly giving out firmware updates to add on features based on customer reactions. This company actually listens to the consumers and they're always hard at work making improvements to the device. Also, this will last a long time, you can always take it to the next camera you buy. It works with almost every popular camera out there, so it really does go beyond just using it for the GH4. I found this to be the most popular item I've rented out to working DPs.

[@TPVPRO]

The point of 10 bit is not what you see off the initial image but what you can grade from the 10 bit file. There is a difference if you know how to grad it correctly.

Hi! Did you change your mind since v-log is out? What dou think of 10bit v-log from the gh4? Did you see the new Atomos Flame devices? What about the shogun's preamplifier? Is that any good? Is it better than a zoom?

[@VuPhamRainstorm]

You was totally right. It is a bag with 10 tones but store only few fruits seem still need truck to moves it to the fridge. Thank you.

[@AliAtusa]

It would differ for green screening as well as final output screen/media. If you stream to KZbin or the internet only, then there's no difference. But if you plan to show in theater or go to broadcast then it would make a difference in the grade potential. But then again, if you plan on showing in theater or broadcast you're not shooting on a $1500 camera! So, I agree with you on this completely. :)

[@dslrvideoshooter]

AliAtusa That is a great way of putting it!

[@pacoreguenga]

Those who have criticized Caleb for this video aren't listening to the moment he says "if your shooting for Netflix or another hight quality system". Well, I always shoot 4K Cinema DCI for DCP so I can deliver every format they ask me to, but for zero budget movies and youtube videos, I record internally at 8 bit.

[@matrodfpv]

This is funny Caleb, I remember on a previous video regarding the a7S and S-Log, you mentioned never planning on using S-log for two reasons, the base 3200 ISO (totally valid reason of course, I'm often in a modified version of a James Miller FS700 profile in Cine2 Gamma), and then because of the fact that the a7S is recording only 8-bit internally. Has your thinking changed? Not particularly on the usage of S-Log for _you_ , but rather, the true grading capabilities of these newer camera's 8-bit footage (which I'm sure as you've seen, is holding up much better these days vs. older 8-bit footage with the only codec options being 24mbps avc/h.264, etc.). This is a video on the GH4, not the a7S, I know. But it is interesting.

[@dslrvideoshooter]

Cinevape You're right! I haven't tried the Shogun with the A7s and it is sorta apples and oranges since you can't compare internal 4K against the shogun etc, but you're right, 8bit has come a long way! I also think it is the better compression on these non-canon cameras.

[@Matthew13tube]

Thanks for the honest look at these options, great job!

[@BernardBertrand]

Wow , really instructive ! thank ! and what would you suggest if the idea would be to skip the record limit on the GH4 European version ? thank you

[@Neightlive]

Let me guess. You where grading 10bit footage on a 8bit monitor?

[@angelobarrera41]

That is probably my guess as well. You can use the Atomos Screen as a dual monitor and use that screen to 10-bit grade. 10-bit Pc monitors for consumers do not exist yet, there for no one will see the difference between 10-bit vs 8-bit.

[@00anta]

Not sure what you mean by 10-bit pc monitors for consumers, but there certainly are low end (meaning cheaper) 10 bit monitors. They're marketed as wide gamut monitors and you can get one for a few hundred dollars.

[@koolkutz7]

Thanks for the advice. I was considering it but now I don't think I will bother if there is little perceivable difference. I just use a 7" Lilliput monitor which helps when manually focusing for now.

[@BlackWarriorLures]

Great, man! Thanks. Just keep recording to the camera itself.

[@griffithsafari]

why do you use 16-235 if you get more detail with 0-255?

[@dslrvideoshooter]

James Griffith You don't get more detail out of 0-255. 16-235 is the best setting as it is Rec709 Compatible. If you use anything else you're just creating more work for yourself.

[@AgileCreator]

Of course you din't see much of a difference except for file size. But what about colour grading and/or converting from one colour space to another? With 4:2:2 10bit you will not that quickly generate ugly artefacts.

[@uoutube2102]

its a huge difference. 2015-2018 not many had 10bit tv/monitor. also you need v-log profile, a quality hdmi2.0 micro hdmi to hdmi cable and a decent ssd to make difference.

[@jaffarbh]

Something to note is that mainstream graphics cards (and built-in graphics) limit the output to 8bpc. You also need to use DisplayPort as most HDMI monitors are also limited to 8bpc. Other reviews found somewhat more noticeable difference, which could be attributed to the workstation they used to view and grade the video. In any case, uploading to KZbin will surely destroys the quality so you do have a good point

[@00anta]

Actually, that's a myth, and quite a stupid one at that. Most mainstream graphic cards can switch to 10bpc quite easily. This feature has been available for years.

[@josedelarosa8508]

Super late to the game here but how do you shoot slow motion 4.2.2 externally (60fps) to the Atomos Ninja V with the GH4. The Atomos ninja v doesn't read the variable rate and stays at 24fps.

[@beanermcmexicano1488]

Does it make a difference if I'm shooting for distribution? like netflix or even big screens? And, is it worth to buy the shogun? or is the ninja assassin oasy?

[@beanermcmexicano1488]

okay*

[@troyphillips1077]

Yes

[@KingClipreal]

great video as always! :)

[@publishedwithpassion]

Thank you for this, it's really helpful.

[@AllanGildea]

So helpful! Cheers!

[@MrDawidson818]

Hey Caleb, i looking for the Song at 0:35min for ages. Can you please help?

[@dslrvideoshooter]

Here you go! www.premiumbeat.com/royalty_free_music/songs/old-grass :-)

[@MrDawidson818]

THX a lot. U made my day!!! :-)

[@MarcusWolschon]

So you set the Hdmi feed to 8 bit for a 10bit recorder? Is your monitor and graphics pipeline capable and set up for 10bit color? (e.g. No MacOS unless you use special hardware) Did you compare the signal of both recordings in the video scopes to see how much of a difference there is avaliable for grading? It looks like you just compared 8 bith 4:2:0 h.264 with 8 bit 4:2:2 ProRes

[@fredericsidler]

Thank you for the video. But you missed a very important point. The video length difference between the two. GH4 has limitations. Others camera are even worse. Recording to an external system allows you to capture long, very long videos.

[@Humcrush]

Frédéric Sidler The only limitation on internal recording time is the size of your card.

[@dslrvideoshooter]

Frédéric Sidler Humcrush is correct. As long as you have space on your card, the camera will keep recording. The files will be broken into big chunks, but you'll have a continuous edit without stopping and starting the camera manually.

[@Evliveoyuncu]

Frederic is right too. There is no limitations in US in terms of recording video but in EU if a camera can record video more than 30 minutes than it is classified as a video camera which causes additionaş taxes. So many dslr manufacturer limits their devices video recording with 30 minutes.

[@fredericsidler]

Evli ve Oyuncu I'm in Europe and this is what I heard. I'm not a GH4 owner. I have such a limitation on my Nikon. Too bad we have such a limitation in Europe. Really would like to capture more than 30 minutes with it.

[@matrodfpv]

Evli ve Oyuncu I thought the GH4 was a world-camera? And classified actually as a _video_ camera thus getting around the recording limits anywhere in the world. Again, hearsay, and I'm not a gh4 owner.

[@little5ive]

Thank you for sharing the experience)

[@TheEditingResource]

I preordered a blackmagic video assist to get 4k to 1080 downscaling or 1080 10 bit prores. It's still not out yet, but what are your current thoughts on it? I just want a really good 1080p image so that I don't have to work with different resolutions and hopefully smoother editing frame rates using prores lt or prores 422

[@Ssurge04]

thanks for the great Vids!! Is it worth using the Atomos Ninja blade with Sony A7s i?

[@PrettyLady7282]

u have not mention or compare the skin-ton tho. i think that was the main reason for gh4 users are using the atomos right? but if it is pretty much the same at 4.2.0 then well u made my day too. i'm about to shoot a shortfilm with the planning GH4+Shotgun or Ninja within a week . . . but i maybe think about it again! thanks - liked

[@umran89]

any idea how it works with panasonic g7? heard there were couple of limitations to it like no 10bit?

[@bamvillevalo]

what about the atoms ninja assassin for the c100? is it worth it for that camera?

[@iDealMedley]

Does the external recorder reduce noise in the black areas.

[@PaulConway1973]

Well I was looking at a decent field monitor and the best for price, spec and brightness was the SmallHD but they cost as much as the cut down HDMI shogun being the Atomos Ninja Inferno .. apart from the huge Weight and Size that should future proof me also for a GH5 in the future with prores 10 bit 60p recording... hopefully a price drop for the GH5 in 6 months ...

[@a3r0k1t]

Can the Shogun take in 4096x2160p C4K through the HDMI input?

[@nikinik7503]

Thanks a lot for the grat video man!

[@Obaerik]

do you think the shogun is better than what a consumer nikon d320 shots natively?

[@danielirambona]

Hi ***** Great Video, Keep Up the Great work. I would buy the Atomos Shogun | I think it is Worth it

[@TCKe]

The GH4 has amazing quality and most important feel

[@tptrsn]

Thanks Caleb!

[@nikitavolkov4429]

Hi) thanks for the video. My Sony A7 quickly overheats. Will less cool my camera if video recording on an external recorder.

[@MediaKings]

but is it not true that this will allow you to capture 4k at 60p ?????

[@TheLwaddict]

Wow, another reviewer who doesn't understand what 4.2.2 is before making a video about it?

[@VladPandele]

The best way to use that recorder is if you got a Sony A7S and you really want 4K.

[@jonathanabelmann8036]

Is it possible to record audio in VFR with it?

[@jonathanabelmann8036]

or the ninja 2

[@zguy95135]

If the camera output 10 bit 4:2:2 then there would be a quality difference in the recording, your footage is only as good as the master material... Once it gets on KZbin or Vimeo it's still kind of pointless though unfortunately. Vimeo does use a higher bitrate btw, they both will re-encode your footage regardless of what you upload but Vimeo does have an edge.

[@danutzii]

what about g7?

[@reticulan5]

Something else the shogun cannot do. One of the reason's I bought one was I wasn't happy with the quality of the GH4's 96 fps. As you shoot higher frame rates it gets compressed more. Foe example 200 MB/sec or 24/25 fps. But 100 for 96. Atomos promised it can record up to 120 fps at a much better codec and compression than internal. Well no one I know says it can be done. When I set the Gh4 to record at 96 fps. The Shogun just records it at 25.

[@teckno_senpai]

man, thats very unfortunate to hear. I was considering atomos for that setup. any luck yet?

[@FrankyEames]

the GH4 actually conforms the 96 fps to 24p(or whatever frame rate you have selected). it does this internally after the clip is recorded. the external recorder will capture the signal the display is putting out. I don't have an Assassin, but I've heard this from many people that do. The assassin can record up to 120fps, but the GH4 won't output more than 60fps.

[@SheilaHouse]

um....FYI, the GH4 does shoot at 10 bit....

[@ceasarstudioceasarbelliard7873]

You just saved me $700.00. Thank you

[@yangyu1482]

Thank you! you just saved me $2000 on buying the ATOMOS!

[@matreyia]

10 bit or chroma key work.

[@fredericsidler]

One told me it was 60 minutes!?!

[@mortenjensen946]

Ehmm just use BMC 4k?

[@NewLegendPictures]

It's not about image quality...

you need 10 bit for chroma key

[@vulpinebaton9172]

nice

[@esapekka6343]

First