Is the Black Coach Even Better in Patch 5.3? - Vampire Counts Unit Focus

[@caret_shell]

I started a Counts campaign right after 5.3 dropped in part because I want to see this new carriage business. Looking forward to it!

[@OffToBattle]

Sounds great! Don't need to be shy letting us know how it goes!

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

Especially with how they're buffed now, I kind of wish that the black coach would be a mount option for the wizard vampire and the other less melee focused lords, or hell just have Vlad use this as a mount option for the memes

[@OffToBattle]

That's a great point. I will light an unholy candle and pray CA takes that to heart when Vampires get a pass on the heroes side of things.

[@GerritTV187]

Along with the razergore chariots this is one of my favorite rides. 10/10 driven over skaven

[@OffToBattle]

Razorgors got better too. I noticed, but there's only so much time in a day... I'll see what I can whip up soon though.

[@GerritTV187]

@@OffToBattle more interesting is how the lighter chariots play now or goblin wolf chariot

[@darthnihilus6211]

The Mass increase is greatly appreciated, if not mentioned in the patch notes

[@OffToBattle]

That's because they think they accounted for it in the general changes to chariot mass classes. Anyway, bottom line is that this one got a buff it needed because goodness gracious, it got stuck so easily for a single entity. I guess it just snagged on too many bodies too often and their collective mass kept it in place.

[@ayytess]

I’ve started many, many Vlad campaigns (and even finished two!) in my day, and i used to disband the black coach on turn one. After 5.3, I couldn’t believe how well the unit was performing. Much needed, and I’m hoping the VC continue to get some love from CA and hopefully get a DLC / rework soon.

[@OffToBattle]

I'm trying to do an Isabella campaign but hit a bug yesterday, heh. I'm trying again after answering more comments. Love comments though ^^ I'll cover a VC rework when the heroes get a much needed spook-up in their skill trees like Empire offerings did.

[@ZeriocTheTank]

I started a Vlad campaign specifically because of the halberds (which I absolutely love btw), but the amount of work the black coach has been putting in during my campaign really shocked me. It's nice that some of these little buffs are opening up more people's eyes from just resorting to blobbing up with endless zombies when it comes to VC.

[@OffToBattle]

Oooh, so glad to hear it. I'm finally free for the weekend on my end so alongside re-doing Kislev stuff some (I have a few battles for an early campaign video series if I really want to use it, things went stupidly well..) I'm thinking of doing Isabella.

[@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285]

Having a unit that can Crump heavy infantry like this is certainly a worthwhile addition to your army and it's worth noting that when your campaign gets to the stage where it can credibly field this is about the same time Dwarves or chaos are going to start becoming a problem for you. That having been said I can also see it being utterly hilarious for dealing with orcs and goblins.

[@OffToBattle]

The funny thing is that the enemy investing in Black Orks only gets them so far against this unit. It probably has a harder time against giant goblin blobs.

[@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285]

@@OffToBattle To which the ironic counter is to just field nothing but your own chaff (IE skeletons and ghouls) who will nominally have stat lines that are at least as good while also causing fear. What I'm saying is that it's just crap stacks all the way down :P

[@jordanlang6027]

This unit even without any micro got me 197 kills turn 1. (playing isabella) this thing is great! cant wait to have 3 of them to support the girl squad(issabella and 4 vamps).

[@OffToBattle]

I'm trying to do an Isabella campaign now.

[@jordanlang6027]

@OffToBattle Its really fun having isabella and 4 vamps on turn 4. all units in my army have vanguard deployment and i thought that was vlads thing? is that a bug?

[@jenbroness3765]

That animation of the cairn wraith jumping out of the driver's seat never gets old lol

[@OffToBattle]

It's fun to watch, yeah!

[@SilverKnightXx]

I liked the coach because in my head canon I pictured that Vlad was keeping Isabellas father in that coffin and they both decided it would be hilarious to keep him around while they go conquering. I realy dig those buffs but its still funny how it can't hide in a forest while a corpse cart can, while having a big ass bell on top of it! :D Oh well, you can't have it all I guess! I wonder if Cryptghouls are better now in auto-resolve with their buffs, since they always got wrecked in A-R.

[@OffToBattle]

I'm curious about the Crypt Ghoul part myself. I'll fire up a campaign (and this is bold for me, I hadn't actually played Vampire Counts in proper campaign all this time) and see how it works out for me.

[@darthnihilus6211]

Its biggest weakness are skirmish units. Getting shot, while closing in can be painful until the wardsave buff activates

[@OffToBattle]

Good observation. Its real job is to bust up massed melee infantry, so I'd account for the skirmishers with other units when creating my dark army composition schemes.

[@darthnihilus6211]

I sadly tested with Skaven units. Their poison was a huge pain

[@alexanderlowton4552]

You convinced me to try it again since two years ago. I know how to use chariots back then too and it wasn't working that well maybe now I'll use it to bog down range while going through infantry then retreating to the vampire blob heal if its to damaged. I still think if just given a barrier it would be great.

[@OffToBattle]

Someone else noticed you can just 'hide' the coach behind an infantry blob for a while as kills add up and then break out, by that point its damage resistance and damage dealing will be boosted. It's a thought. Barriers are nice, love abusing them, but we're getting options. I hope you agree the Black Coach feels much better, even though it can't literally win the battle by itself.

[@SnipaWolfe]

Oh my god. It only could hit two models at once? I know you don't wanna leave chariots in pitched combat but no wonder it took so long to kill blobs of chaff when I just right clicked on them and let it take them out at its own pace while I was dealing with heroes and lords.

[@OffToBattle]

Exactly, exactly. It was making that ghost driver shed non-corporeal tears. AND EVEN LIKE THAT it could take a real bite out of entities on the charge. I'm looking forward to playing around with them with all the buffs enabled.

[@pablonunalvares5391]

Wow, ask and ye shall receive lol! I'm gonna start a Vampire campaign now... It seems that the couch will be a heavy lifter when lines of infantry are being held... I barely used before because it kept getting stuck whenever i tried to hit a blob, but now it seems that it's not a problem anymore!!! Thanks bro!

[@OffToBattle]

It's not as bad a problem, anyway. And now we have a new unit of Grave Guard to sort out larger than man-sized entities the Coach itself would struggle with so maintaining lines got even easier. They may actually seduce me into playing Vampire Counts properly..

[@Black_Coding]

I love that they update old units, it allows for more diverse compositions. Luminark of Hysh someday maybe?

[@OffToBattle]

Well it does what it's meant to I.. guess? People just want it as a mount for light wizards... which would be really cool, mind you.

[@asdrubaelvect3995]

Very nice, Black Coaches have always been on my don't pick list. They might replace my dire wolves in campaign now. Gotta start yet another Vlad run to rediscover them.

[@OffToBattle]

Well you do want something out there to nip at the heels of crossbowmen, and dire wolves can do that. I mused that combining the two will work. Maybe it works out that way, I just always like to have a little speed besides single entities, even if it's Yeomen or Dervishes or something. If nothing else they pad your victories against broken foes.

[@asdrubaelvect3995]

@@OffToBattle I find dire wolves dying dying a bit too fast early on to be efficient nippers. But a Coach tagging along a band of blood knights to rack the kills for the buffs would be a nice opportunist road killer/ broken unit finisher. While Wolves arter great pursuers, I prefer to tear apart quickly fleeting units rather having to dedicate units to make sure they do rout out of the battlefield. And bats and vargheists generaly serve better as flying cycle chargers in my armies.

[@GerritTV187]

With ghorst I think they are the best because there are so many 120-160 entity infantry around and now it doesn't need to kill itself it's great. I think I'm gonna try the goblin wolf chariot since the heavy er chariots have been good pre patch already.

[@OffToBattle]

I just finished off a Razorgor Chariot update script. Other chariots were raised up to the mass that made it brutal (2000), so that chariot got a Weapon Strength buff to maintain its relative position of awesomeness. I was already bullish (boarish?) on them, now they're even better. Going to be interesting going through other chariots and "chariots" - have to deal with Doomwheels and Doom Flayers now too!

[@fiendishrabbit8259]

This "increases in intensity" is IMHO the absolute biggest change. It means it kicks in immediately and then builds up rather than being an either/or ability (which sucked against enemies with more elite infantry). Especially the vigour part is super good since it's almost as good as perfect vigour. And everyone knows that high vigour on a chariot is good.

[@OffToBattle]

I realized a few days ago this means bringing TWO Black Coaches and using them with each other no longer presents the kill stealing paradox it used to. I've yet to use the tactic in anger, but the potential is there. In the meantime, it looks ugly, but my starting army Black Coach (Isabella) can get 250 kills without me realizing it.

[@fiendishrabbit8259]

@@OffToBattle I tried out multiple black coaches this morning. Multi Black Coach Drifting is so good now as they're able to concentrate their power on a single enemy unit and all benefit from the kills. Almost instantly maxed out meters.

[@Cheletiba]

I'm really happy that the black coach got some heft to it's mass. I loved the Lil bugger in my Vlad campaign.

[@OffToBattle]

My feeling is it still won't win entire battles by itself, but its ability to tilt battles in your direction has greatly improved.

[@Canuovea]

Nice change!

[@OffToBattle]

I sure think so, it needed something.

[@Canuovea]

@@OffToBattle When I saw them previously, I kinda rolled my eyes. Like oh no, a black coach, a unit that can't do most of its cool abilities until it kills a bunch of my units, but it's bad at that, whatever shall I do? Anyway... wait, are those Blood Knights? Okay, now I'm worried!

[@danpitzer765]

I see a nasty thing with this change. Make the classic Zombie/Skele blob. Put the coach /in/ the blob, like it was a corpse cart or necromancer. Let it soak up death power as you tear away at the forces trying to get through the blob. Then, when fully charged, *BAM*! It erupts from the blob and starts doing a brutal circuit of any ranged units and the surrounding foes. Never having to engage in 'weak' mode.

[@OffToBattle]

Good for you for identifying that. It's a huge change, used to be that if the Coach couldn't get the kills personally, it started weak and stayed weak. This allows for a lot more flexibility.

[@nathanspreitzer6738]

Used to perma disband this, actually not too bad now great at clearing chaff

[@OffToBattle]

Yeah, a lot of people were in the perma disband camp.

[@excursor4296]

There where two ways I would appreciate a buff for this guy. Make the charge to TONS of damage but get stuck almost instantly or allow it to actually get through something. It was just so hard to justify it simply over a corpse cart due to how lack luster it felt to use compared to any other tier three building monster.

[@OffToBattle]

Yeah. It's better now, the mass is higher, but it's not as high as some of these other chariots I'm sure I'll be covering end up being. I'm at peace with the Coach just being a much better curveball option than it was a few days ago. Doesn't mean you want to skimp on corpse carts.

[@kirillrivkin4842]

This is a much stronger unit now- the damage buff, the 48% Ward save and constantly recharging vigour refresh battery are excellent. I would only increase its armor to 80- 60 armor for a chariot is just too low. Maybe CA should add another ability that buffs other Vampire Counts units rather than the coach itself-i.e. increase allied units Leadership by +4 or +8 to address the underlying weaeness of the faction.

[@OffToBattle]

It's a thought. Synergy is a big deal, at least this has "some" synergy from being strengthened by nearby death, but it's still an awful mechanic if facing an Ogre army that left the Gnoblars back at camp.

[@sandsundertail6936]

When I started Vlad campaign recently I was surprised, when the most useless unit in the game, that couldn't go through a zombie before, finally can work like a proper chariot

[@OffToBattle]

That's exactly the reaction I wanted to see out there. CA deserves credit for creating it.

[@matthewpena3932]

I still want to see a version with flying.

[@OffToBattle]

Not from this one, but I'll bring up the changes to Burning Chariots for the Tzeentch side as I go. That got a major revision too.

[@jc5512]

'Even better' would imply that it was anything other than totally useless to start with

[@OffToBattle]

With a full head of steam and charging in, it was not totally useless. Now it's a lot better. But point taken. I went back to my normal title format.