Are Vargheists Any Good in Patch 5.3? - Vampire Counts Unit Focus

[@Inoffensive_name]

Thanks for the work you do, man. The insight you offer and the traffic you get are not proportional. This is excellent info, delivered in an incredibly straight-forward way. The best way.

[@OffToBattle]

It's ok, I've had to do retraining and career switching on the side so haven't been able to do this 100%, nor branch out how I'd have liked to ideally. This channel is actually becoming part of my resume going forward. (Especially that Corpse Cart video, heh!) My "practice" delivering this info is going to help me going forward so nothing is wasted.

[@dennissobczak903]

I don’t comment on KZbin videos but I just wanted to say I really enjoy the videos with the detailed analysis, always looking forward to new ones coming out. They’re the highlight of my evenings at the moment when I’m done playing wh3 myself :)

[@OffToBattle]

It's great to hear that. Whether people are actively playing or not, I want to entertain along the way too.

[@xLs58x]

Remember when the didn't have armor piercing and healing in melee?

[@Vegita5100]

I was there Gandalf. 3000 years ago.

[@OffToBattle]

I'm sure I was there, but I don't remember it...

[@jaredfischer6040]

I f@&king love these guys. They just absolutely destroy whatever they hit. They are like living cruise missiles. Once I have easy access to them, I recruit two in all my armies if I can help it. Watching them dissolve the healthbars of empire infantry manning walls during siege battles is one of my greatest joys. It is usually followed by a maniacal laugh.

[@OffToBattle]

I'm getting the feeling two per army is a good mix too.

[@babesinclair]

Very detailed. A great guide for a valuable unit...

[@OffToBattle]

Thanks, I try to be as thorough as I can.

[@Greyknight1575]

Strange how this unit type has really only had a single representative for the entire trilogy. I can't think of another flying monstrous infantry unit in the game. Hippogryph knights and Knights of Tor Gaval are the only others that are close enough but i believe those are full on flying monstrous cav

[@OffToBattle]

I'd say the closest are Doom Knights of Tzeentch... thoughts?

[@Poolehful]

Yes. They are. I try to bring two units of them for basically every army. Their ability to flank unfiltered, come down on knights and archers, clear the skies; They're fantastic. Pinching knights between these and dire wolves will shear most. Danse Macabre turns them into a blender.

[@OffToBattle]

That's the dream. Flankers operating far from friendly missile support suddenly become food.

[@Julian-cn1ey]

Yep, their offensive prowess and flying makes them a great offensive swiss army knife. Clever players that can effectively screen out their entry can use them to easily crush sections of the enemy line or to skirmish/counter skirmish. They can be paired up with many kinds of flying Vampires to bring a fearsome airforce to the table. There really aren't many factions that can field effective airforces, and while Counts are no Bretonia or Tzeentch, they can dominate most factions with their superiority in the air. Not a lot most AI factions can do when a vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon starts summoning zombies on their gunlines, followed up with Bats and Vargeists playing hammer anvil with Wolves and Blood/Black Knights. Counts can deploy a massive amount of force onto the enemy army, very quickly, and Vargeists play a huge role in that corner of the playbook. IMO people fixate on the Mortise Engine playstyle with Counts a bit too much, myself included, when they have very wicked aggro options.

[@HoboHunterr1001]

FYI, I think you meant unfettered, not unfiltered.

[@Poolehful]

@HoboHunterr1001 No. I meant what I said.

[@HoboHunterr1001]

@@Poolehful Ok, my bad. Could you please tell me what it means to flank "unfiltered" vs. filtered?

[@kirillrivkin4842]

Flying Glass Cannon- this is a nice armor piercing tool. Especially since it can fly. These guys may be better against Large Armored targets than Blood knights, due to their ability to pick engagements, high Melee stats and armor-piercing damage. And as you mentioned, these guys don't care abput enemy's armor-piercing damage, since they basically have 0 armor.

[@OffToBattle]

Yeah, some units are like that, armor-piercing but very thin armored. Red-Crested Skinks were the first time I really noticed.

[@GahnzNmi]

Looking forward to the inevitable Varghulf one! The only unit in VC roster that I have yet to figure out (they seem like a big cool bad dude but always seem to explode).

[@OffToBattle]

I've written a script to cover the current version that has Immunity to Flanking, it helps some.

[@tylerdurden376]

It's not a good unit. But in some cases :) I hope we will get a better varghulf in the future

[@Canuovea]

When they changed their damage to AP, I think, they suddenly became absolutely fantastic. Keep them away from ranged units, especially guns (harder to dodge), and Pegasus Knights getting the charge results in horrible horrible things happening to them... but they are fast and fly and hit like a freight train. Their downside is that they WILL take damage unless they hit an already engaged foe, of course. Look at that fight with the High Elf Princess, for instance. Yes, they won, but it took about four units of Vargheists and they took quite the damage. You really want aerial superiority with these guys too. If the enemy has good air units, well, things are going to get tricky. They do compliment Terrorgheists and Bats well, though.

[@OffToBattle]

I had one unit of Vargheists on each of the phoenixi and two on the dragon, shifting to the dragon when the birds were done for, but yes, it's a good example of damage going both ways. That's why flying vampire heroes are probably a good bit of help for them.

[@ihorburtsev858]

In Isabella's army Vargheists kick hard. The biggest disadvantage of this unit is that VC don't have lore of vampires for vampire hero. It would be great to have a flying hero to provide a proper support for Vargheists. I hope CA add this (and Abyssal Terror mount for heroes)

[@saschaganser9671]

Just, you can bring a Vampire with Isabella. Flys also, builds a doomstack. Attach Vlad as a hero, win everything.

[@OffToBattle]

Isabella just has to do the job herself, heh. Or rather, one vampire specced into it can keep their leadership at insane levels.

[@OffToBattle]

It's a very strong combo.

[@fcon2123]

Vargheists are honestly one of the highlights of the faction. Few others can boast having flying monstrous infantry, which is the best way to describe these guys. Once they get in combat, their stats and regen ensure they'll do their best to outvalue whatever they're attacking. Whether in campaign or MP, no army has ever been worse off from having at least 2 vargheists on the roster.

[@OffToBattle]

You're yet another person going for 'at least 2' in an army. Sounds like a good rule though.

[@lordtitan3651]

After over a thousand hours of Vampire counts, I LOVE this unit. I find using them in conjunction with your vampire lord to crush enemy high value targets is so useful. Use zombie summons to prevent them from being surrounded while they rip apart a unit, or to help them escape a blob when needed. A true glass cannon unit: fragile, but with a bit of micro you can really hurt the enemy. Decent at supporting your lord during duels in the sky against strong single entities too.

[@OffToBattle]

I like the zombie summons to support idea.

[@tritojean7549]

i heard once the best way the use them is in the middle of fellbat unit, as they are more model in a unit they are more likely to be hit and with their better defense they tank better and since they are small the bonus against large dont apply there

[@OffToBattle]

I didn't want to suggest that without more experience, but today's campaign plinking tells me yes, that's how it works out. Very interesting synergy, because fell bats really do need the offensive help.

[@TheGreatDanish]

Probably my favorite unit in VC. Fragile as fuck but useful in so many situations. But the main one is their ability to absolutely scrub walls clean of anything living. I will rush these and put 3-4 in every army I run. Mix them with a few bats, and they will help you slaughter everything that moves in the Empire.

[@OffToBattle]

I've tried running with less, but they're just that good, despite the fragility. I'll try and stuff more into my armies going forward.

[@UrsusPlayZ]

Nice vid dude! They are a must have in every vampire comp. They are just to useful to miss out on them. Could you do a skinwolf werekin video? I can get really really good anti large heros. I use them i an doom squad with units of skinwolfs or as hero hunters. 36 nonus vs large is crazy. One of my favorite heros. Would love to have a lord variant. But if that ever happens🤷🏻‍♂️😂

[@OffToBattle]

I'll do it sometime, no idea when. Lots of good heroes I have yet to cover.

[@Sheltorious]

The 10 armor is from the mohawks right?

[@OffToBattle]

I have to assume so ^_^

[@TheTarturo]

I long thought about it, but I think it's time: As an old veteran of warhammer fantasy 6th through 8th edition, I will give a bit of background on how the units you highlight on this channel generally performed on tabletop and how much their video game usage and rules align with what the did on tabletop. Vargheists were newly introduced in the 8th edition. They are the only flying monstrous infantery unit in the game, a rare combination of rules. That means that they are very fast and hit hard, especially against infantery. As opposed to their video game profile, they aren't actually that great against armour. Solid, certainly, but not my first choice for cracking Heavy Cavalry. If they were a more close representation of the tabletop, they should have anti-infantery. They are also quite quick in terms of initiative for a monstrous unit, which is needed, as they have literally zero ability to take damage. As such their greatest enemy are elves, huge numbers of weak attacks and auto-hitting attacks like magic missiles. Outside of their high damage output, their most distinguishing feature is being Vampire. That means they can move independent of the General, making them great flanking or Vanguarding units. But their frenzy makes this dangerous, as their middling leadership means, that you can easily lose control of them. They also don't suffer from the death of the General, though that usually spells defeat for a Vampire army anyway. But that also makes them very hard to heal, as vampiric units heal very slowly. As such Vargheists are a unit that need to fit the army. They are too expensive to handle carelessly and their Frenzy makes them hard to control. The best choise is to combine them with other flying units that can shield them from damage and unwanted attacks and to quickly get them into their preferred prey. Also any magic missile coming their way needs to dispelled. So I'd say they are overall well represented in Total Warhammer.

[@OffToBattle]

As I've said Lorehammer always welcome.. but I want to add I was recently reminded Vargheists did not start Total War Warhammer as armor-piercing, that was changed later. It makes them wonderfully relevant. But of course we didn't have Grave Guard/ Halberds until two weeks ago.

[@nathanspreitzer6738]

Very fun to use, pain to buff with tech, pain to recruit, great if they happen to be in the summon dead pool

[@OffToBattle]

That must take a lot of battle sites.

[@pablonunalvares5391]

I find them to pay their worth in sieges, but land battles? Not so much. I'd rather have mournghouls stalking artillery or a fire and forget. Anything that surrounds them absolutely owns them and as Helman, you'll have to fight nurgle flies and all sort of troublesome flying units. If they had a shield or something, that'd help a lot...

[@OffToBattle]

Having to fight rot flies is definitely a pain...

[@gameruldinica5285]

I desire a video about tge blood line lords for vampire counts

[@OffToBattle]

I wonder when I should do that because I do need to. I haven't played the faction much to have tons of experience with them, but they impress regardless.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

I would be very interested in such analysis.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

These are good, but a more nuanced tool in the arsenal than bats. On paper, they're just bats but better, but you pay a bit for that better, and the larger size and lower model count means that for all those better stats, they have about the same shelf life as bats if things start to go belly up. You need to be careful with them to get results, which, is always notable as a downside, especially in Vampire Counts where so much wants your attention, but the result is something nice all the same. They run well with a posse of bats, too; bats to screen projectiles, cover their escape, and take the brunt of damage, and their bigger brothers here to give some heat behind your air force dives into more robust targets, and can mean the difference between holding off a unit of cavalry, and just killing it. If you can afford to wholesale replace your bats with these, do so, I guess, but outside of these infinite money scenarios, I tend to only recruit a few of these as a compliment for bats, or else for an army I am expecting to do a lot of siege battles with, since their ability to bully on walls has grown beyond bullying into terrorism.

[@OffToBattle]

I've been foregoing the bats in an army with Isabella and a vampire goth girl posse, using one regular and then the RoR Vargheist.

[@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285]

Ah Vargheists; easily one of my fave units in general. They're a powerful unit that comes online real fast that maintains value throughout a campaign as a powerful assault unit. True, they are going to trade badly with spearmen and archers can shred them... but by the same coin they hit like a flippin truck, they're fast and they fly meanng that against a lot of your opponents they're an amazing beat stick and goon squad.

[@OffToBattle]

That and you have options for spearmen and archers. Dire wolves alone can wipe both from existence if allowed to.

[@alexanderlowton4552]

w/ vampire counts flying units before they're crumbling send them back to your corpse cart and preferably undead blob take them down and you get the melee still while they heal. twice i was able to heal a unit of vargheists about to crumble and die to full health never mind every time i give them at least 50% in a battle

[@OffToBattle]

Keeping them topped off is very helpful, be it mid-battle or "after"...

[@ilikethiskindatube]

My benchmark is whether a unit is of any use against Warhammer 2 chaos invasion.

[@OffToBattle]

Ahhh. Well all the armor-piercing and flying lord hunting ability helps there.

[@samarkand1585]

In one of Legend's recent disaster battles, I saw this unit's RoR get their health shredded in a minute while fighting...Kislev horse archers and light sleds. And they received help from crypt horrors halfway through. Needless to say I'm really not impressed

[@OffToBattle]

I understand, that's the flip side of being offensive but having a glass jaw. Ideally you'd have something more oriented toward base damage messing up the horse archers but if it was a disaster battle, there was no such luxury afforded. You're NEVER going to be impressed by the durability of this unit, but it can do eye-popping damage in the right situation.

[@maximumrpg3707]

Could you please do a focus on Malakai?

[@OffToBattle]

I'd like to now that the state of his campaign has stabilized. I haven't forgotten him, I'll just have to do him along the way of everything else.

[@maximumrpg3707]

@@OffToBattle He can have some absolutely whacky scenarios happen depending on how you go about his starting turns.

[@tylerdurden376]

They destroy heavy cav like nothing

[@OffToBattle]

So I've seen. They can break under heavy focus, but if the enemy can't/ won't, they'll rip stuff limb from limb.

[@AlvorReal]

As a multiplayer comment... unfortunately, no. They get nuked the second they hit something because they have enough of a reputation to be focused down. Which means you CAN use them as distraction carnifexes, but that's an expensive use. If you want to pair them with bats as a screen, they do better on the approach and the bats can block a charge on their big brothers. But they will be focused down.

[@OffToBattle]

Yeah, the focusing down is exactly what the opponent should be trying to do...