Is the COMBAT in T&L bad?

Throne & Liberty's combat is a huge talking point, Kanon breaks down the combat in detail.
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[@KanonXO]

Your thoughts on the combat? | Streaming Throne daily @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - drop by and check out the game yourself

[@ratedxvn]

Didn't realize it was this deep. I knew there was complexity in PvP just didn't know where. Its good to hear...

[@ErronBarbeeYT]

Haven't played in months and can't wait for Global...such a good azz game...I use Action only I never played WoW or any of those games with Tab Target....I'm used to Naraka Blade or Lost Ark type of combat systems

[@Oryyyt]

@@ErronBarbeeYT does the q block and active dodge make the combat more action-y than tab-target? if so that's kinda hype

[@IzzyBlind]

I might have missed it, but did you talk about the majority of players who script the Q-block so it's automatic?

[@Crobian]

@@ErronBarbeeYT If this game had Naraka's combat I'd never play anything else

[@NickNeutron]

This is what a review/guide looks like when the creator actualy have played the game...GG Kanon

[@msonix]

This was pure public service from Kanon given the recent events. I hope he gets the respect from the western TL community once the game fully launches.

[@Calmload96]

I know you're throwing stones at Peon with this comment

[@msonix]

@@Calmload96 Not throwing stones at anyone, but rather pointing something obvious. In the end, I'm just referencing the current situation among mmorpg content creators.

[@paintspot1509]

​@@msonixthere is no western community. This game is DoA

[@msonix]

@@paintspot1509 I don't know if you're a compulsive liar or a random depressed dude hating on things online to try to feel something. But I'm starting to believe you're both.

[@Shikku1996]

If we had more genuine content creators like this man here MMOs would've been doing much better ❤

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

oh they removed my comment. Imagine fanboy'n a KZbinr 😘

[@AcknologiaNA]

Honest question Kanon : As a old aion player, where the game had over 40 buttons to smash, and an extremely complex "Xess type" pvp, where you had to antecipate your oponent's moves, but you also had many utility skills to get out of situations ( which i still dont see i TL), like using a potion to remove debuffs, using a skill to get out of a bind, a remove shock to get out of stuns, etc. Everything had a counter ability so you could get out, and to outsmart the oponent you had to know what they've already used and know the window to go all in. I say this, because you showed counter abilities on your video, but instead of a fast reaction to pop a utility skill to get out, you need to PREDICT the oponent's move to not get CC's in the first place. Predicting something instant with a insane fast animation... don't you think it comes down to more luck than skill? I mean you can think he'll stun you and you press block, but instead he wrath's, or use just a regular attack... i still can't see that as anything but luck, unless the more you play the game, it'll be possible to understand certain patterns each class do and play based on that, idk. I really would like to see your thoughts, cuz i played the CN server and the closed betas, and as a pvp player i am still trying to find that new mmorpg to call home.

[@neroxoren2140]

Yes there are ways to get out of CC, there is potion that removes any CC, there are weapon skills that remove stun, remove bind etc. Just read them all and you will get them.

[@paintspot1509]

For TL you just download a script hack that does the blocking for you.

[@milrowz]

@@neroxoren2140no

[@ErraticFaith]

The hacking programs are pretty impressive now, true enough.

[@NucrLear]

@@ErraticFaith easy creations , in easy anti cheats

[@hazemsalama164]

Thelazypeon is to lazy to get an updated info about TL lol

[@skympii6734]

he needs a sponsorship to make a video just wait he gonna upload one with sponsor on it 😂

[@donlestermarquez639]

It's all about the sponsorship brothhhaaaaaa.

[@killerv135]

The game is pay2win, and the combat is mid... lets move on. Is wow better depends on your opinion, if you count mines nope, because wow combat legit puts me to sleep.

[@nzungupumu1350]

It's in his name he's lazy

[@DopeGuyTy]

What new info lmfao

[@Rex_Smashington]

The comments are proof that combat feel is subjective. Half the comments say they don't like it and half do. Personally I love the combat in T&L. Have about one hundred hours in the KR version over 7 months. Haven't been no lifing it but played enough to know I like it and will be playing the NA version.

[@Oryyyt]

does it really have an active dodge mechanic?

[@s8n..]

@@Oryyyt did u watch the video lol

[@Oryyyt]

@@s8n.. I must be blind lol Not clear if it's a universal input, a class specific skill and/or if it's bound by a cooldown. Can you tell?

[@paintspot1509]

​@@Oryyyt kind of yes. This is why the game failed. You can run a script hack that does the blocking for you 100% perfect.

[@anatolydyatlov963]

@@paintspot1509 Until they start banning people for it, which will probably happen sooner than later

[@ifeawosika966]

Aion has the best combat. Patiently waiting for aion 2

[@Rocky_A]

Looks like it has the neat structure of tab target with the speed and fluidity of action. Can actually see what is happening without being stagnant. Looking forward to this

[@abdelrahmanrad]

the only ''tab target'' thing about the combat is that you can't freely cast/attack in the air. you have to be in range within a target but you don't even have to tab a target.

[@alex132788]

Played the game on the korean version, never made it to end end game, but got to like lvl 45 or so, and the combat just never *felt* that great. I could see there is a fair amount of interplay between abilities etc, but the actual feel of combat just felt kind of stiff.

[@funkix60]

Some could say it gets better after X hours. But actually it gets better when you start to know what you're doing and the strenghs and weaknesses of your class. IMO the "Weakness" and slow combat at start is good design it makes you feel like you have to progress to feel relevant, the mobs hurt and you run into mana issue (You're not a combat god straight away), and the game rewards every bit of upgrade with satisfying new animations, speed and damage. To the point where at the end game you're mastering combat and it became fast paced, deep and engaging.

[@lechuck475]

@@funkix60 why should i keep playing something that feels bad, just for the hope that it might get better at some point, when i can actually play something that feels good right at the beginning like bdo or gw2 or whatever?

[@funkix60]

@@lechuck475 Don't like it? Don't play it. No one's forcing you

[@lechuck475]

@@funkix60 you dont get the point, do you?

[@paintspot1509]

​@funkix60 this is why it is DoA.

[@BogDustForBreakfast]

Game will last a a couple months at best with current monetisation . Shame as the game looks good . Doubt there will be oceanic /sea servers . I doubt I’ll play

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

Hey there will be those servers, hope you will have fun trying the game.

[@abdelrahmanrad]

do u even have any idea about the current monetization ? if u did u wouldn't say this at all.

[@BogDustForBreakfast]

@@abdelrahmanrad currently the games only in Korea . So it’s pretty obvious what the “current” monetisation is lol

[@LEE-ty8vq]

You have no idea what your talking about. ​@@BogDustForBreakfast

[@BogDustForBreakfast]

​@@LEE-ty8vq dont i ? what other regions have live servers and clients active at the moment ? come and educate me then scrub

[@eko12]

so basically naraka bladepoint? that is so dope! lets hope the p2w aspects that this game has won't be atrocious and we in west could play it.

[@AmbivalentActuality]

So its tab targetting based combat but with directional dodges and blocks? Seems neat but cumbersome.

[@HersikX]

Basically better hybrid design similar as GW2 but less dynamic. I just wan slow action combat, Re-create Tera somebody already.. new mmo but i can't play because Tab target is after so many tries just sleeping

[@st0ne514]

@@HersikX i agree 100%, tera combat was prob the best ive played in any mmo with those weighted attacks and forcing you to really aim was so engaging(played slayer and lancer)...really hate all the new mmos with that floaty too fast paced combat that feel so weightless

[@xecor4450]

​@@HersikX they needed to copy gw2 1 to 1 for the win, but they fucked up in the middle and went for the mobile game like character controller because they got greedy and fucked up their game for good.

[@TheSpiritof76]

Can you make a video showcasing all the different types of weapons in TL and weapon combinations and talking about the pros/cons of each? I don't know what to pick when the game comes out

[@ofensatul]

It's lackluster and floaty as heck , it's terrible to be honest.

[@antalicus]

I heard people say the combat is clunky and unresponsive and reminded them of Bless Unleashed. I played Bless Unleashed for a few hours and the reason I quit was the combat being clunky and unresponsive. Hope that is not the case.

[@casediedwell5094]

Ok, for real tho: Every game needs a semi-active Dummy to test on! Everything I've seen from T&L, and the number of people comparing it to AA has me only looking FORWARD to the Combat. (yes yes; slow when you only have 3 skills. As it SHOULD be)

[@theblackishboy1105]

Most people complaining about the combat haven't even played the game 😂 these people are goofy they just wanted bdo so they are assuming its trash 💀 I actually played the game and i can say the pve combat was fine it wasn't anything super impressive but it was fun id put it above ff14 in its mechanics but the enemy design to there i got to wasn't as interesting boss wise but fodder were actually fun to kill in this game so it's above imo but enemies need some work but i didn't get to endgame to be fair

[@Hexalyse]

Also I played BDO for maybe 20 hours, and T&L for the same amount roughly. I hated the combat in BDO more than any other MMO I've played (and I've tried 2 vastly different classes). I think T&L combat is much more pleasant.

[@Clara.8775]

@@Hexalysethat’s crazy, I played BDO until max level and only stopped because they spam you with random items taking inventory space and it was all just too overwhelming. But the combat was the best I ever experienced and I played many MMOs. It’s like a fighting game and feels so impactful. I played T&L and I don’t say the combat is horrible there just BDO combat is on another level plus it’s not tab target

[@dinyc15]

@@Hexalyse maybe BDO combat is too much for you to handle.

[@mikecy69]

@@Clara.8775 wtf is maxed level in bdo ?

[@nathangrace540]

@@HexalyseBDO has the best combat/most skill based out of any mmo. It’s not for everyone but I would compare it to a fighting game.

[@nervosadustbolt9642]

Big ups, dawg!! You're actually playing/reviewing it your damn self.. I appreciate that.

[@GamblerX77]

Is dagger/bow a good combo? I heard bow/dagger is better... does it make any difference?

[@deleth]

Dagger works good with any other weapon adding more dmg/dps with crits, but the only difference for what you use first is for auto-attacks and defensive masterys. example: dagger have a mastery that gives you a little of move speed, this will be always active while you are using the dagger as main, same with defense, evasion and some others. but an attack mastery like dmg, crit rate/dmg or cdr between some other will only work for the weapon they belong (their respective skills).

[@GamblerX77]

@@deleth So the critical passives from the dagger are only active when you are using daggers? Not applied when using bow?

[@deleth]

@@GamblerX77 well you have passive and mastery skills. -Passive ones works with any weapon unless they specify some requirement. -Mastery ones are the ones that i was talking about, where offensive ones affect only the weapon they belong.

[@GamblerX77]

@@deleth Got it.. thanks bro

[@-predict7443]

Looking for an explanation of the combat mechanic like this for days now. Thanks

[@oneup3576]

These combat skills reminds me of Aion,some skills are usable only after certain condition is met, like some hard hitting skills are usable only when a target is stumbled or stunned or like after you successfully dodge or block an attack, you can perform counterattacks, this combat is very engaging

[@Gothfel666]

The combat is very fun, but the *EVASION* stats in PVP (melee,ranged and magic evasion) ruin it. To put it in perspective: imagine fighting a rogue in WoW that always has evasion or cloak of shadows up and the ONLY way you hit them is by opening up that wallet or living unemployed at your moms basement, and let's say you finally hit some attacks... guess what? they also build defense to top it all off so your biggest hitting ability hit like an auto-attack 🤡 Don't get me wrong, I love the combat but the inconsistency of feeling powerful one moment and then utterly useless the next one is what ruins this game's pvp, not to mention the current insufferable shield meta, where everyone and their moms is a tank that's why pvp at launch or in the beta tests is the best, because 99% of the players don't have any evasion/defense making it so skill actually matters and fights feel very dynamic and impactful...only early on, sadly :[

[@paradopx8618]

Ah so it’s designed specifically to feel like you have a chance but after launch obviously everyone who swiped and plays 24/7 will gain such an advantageous angle on the game, making the combat pointless when compared to the meta game of swiping / playing nonstop. Got it! So a Korean mmo! 😅 skiperooo for me and the boys

[@KutsuuG]

Always disappointed when I hear about RNG evasion mechanic in action combat. That and status resists was a sore spot for BDO PVP, too.

[@Vlasko993]

Good job. A clear guide finally about how skills,cc and pvp work

[@gregoriosoto6227]

Great job at explaining the combat dude you will be the reason why I play the game

[@izzux2121]

Straight up , i played 350H TL , TL combat is like a way Worse WoW combat , pretty similar to FF14 a lil bit faster very outdated combat sadly , designed for mobile since it was planned that this game gets a mobile version aswell

[@abdelrahmanrad]

u are trolling. i play the game in korea combat is same as gw2 with modern mechanics.

[@izzux2121]

@@abdelrahmanrad bruh... ok

[@msonix]

lmao you're absolutely trolling. I played so many hours of FF14 I've lost count, and this combat (from someone who's actually played TL) is A LOT better than FF14's. Also, stop parroting misinformation. TL was supposed to be cross-platform with mobile, but THEY CHANGED SYSTEMS to be fully PC/Console even before KR launch. It doesn't feel or play like mobile.

[@paintspot1509]

​@@msonix that is what he said. TL was always designed to move to mobile, that is why it is so similar to l2m. Just because they have sugar coated it for PC, doesn't mean it isn't still fundamentally a mobile game.

[@Qyzme]

KanonXO is there something to see if there is a fury or wrath Attacke coming or is it something I need to try to predict?

[@YonexCC]

Interesting info on melee. But you didn't talk about ranged, crossbow, bow, staff. What is combat like with them and how does "countering" work for and against them?

[@jamessunderlandseventh7410]

TL combat isn't terrible, but certainly is below Archeage Combat.

[@izazkunluna4457]

The block & wrath attack & perfect dodge is like Naraka. Dang :) very excited for this game to come. LEZZ GOW!

[@TheStageOriginal]

You might have more spells in the Archeage, but as DarkRunner you just smash you keyboard with the head using 4 spells and you're done if you land your "combo" - mostly there is no way to dodge that.

[@itsDKRG]

Archeage is the best game to compare T&L because how similar the combat actually feels minus the flying mechanics Archeage had. It is fair that the combat looks okay at best when you watch a T&L video but when you play it and get a chance to use movement dodge, block, ability cancel mechanics, you very quickly realize there is so much more to the combat. I'd argue that there are WAY more maintstream mmorpgs with worse combat than T&L than something better imho.

[@real_ez8412]

this combat at endgame seems very interesting but the reality is even with the new upgraded combat which adds an extreme level of build variety if the combat feels stilted and stationary for melee people will not reach this point. and even with the changes on KR from what im seeing your melee combat range is still extremely short and its very easy for someone to back step from you and stop your auto attack if they are not under the form of some CC. this also effects PVE encounters a lot since the devs have less they can do with mechanic design when your melee distance is 1-2 ft from the boss meaning you really cannot do mechanics like mario karting around a boss super fast while keeping melee uptime just as 1 example which is going to make PVE meta very range heavy if you want consistent damage output and uptime. thrones range combat is pretty good but melee feels clunky because of the max melee range being that of its previous autoplay combat a remnant of a very bad system.

[@SquidGains]

Good breakdown Kanon. Though I'm intrigued with the combat as it will be the bulk of the game, though it's not exactly what I was looking for in an mmorpg. Thing that's concerning to me is how many people have mentioned the early game being overwhelming by giving you a ton of spells at the very beginning of the game. I was planning to play this with my partner but she won't stick with the game if it's overwhelming like that. Black Desert was such a game.

[@lakanbass]

The only thing this game is missing is free open world pvp everywhere, not just during conflict events...

[@paintspot1509]

That is a huuuuge thing to be missing. It is why this game failed and L2 didn't.

[@lakanbass]

@@paintspot1509 I agree completely. But for the lack of a better game out there I'll give it a go...

[@FRESHY_GG]

@@paintspot1509 how does a game fail when it didnt even release?

[@paintspot1509]

​​@FRESHY_GG the same way all the other MMOs nobody ever heard of does. Quinfall is another dead MMO that hasn't released yet. Also, it is out already in Kr... and it died.

[@retro1120]

What kind of combat showcase has the game fully muted to where we can't hear any combat sound effects at all?

[@ex2j52]

I am a player who don’t want to schedule play time. How is the content design? I read something about fix event times for big battles like bdo or archangel… is there PvP content that you can play whenever you want and maybe even with a solo q?

[@OGParzoval]

Yes there are open world dungeons that become PVP zones during nighttime. They're massive and multiple levels deep.

[@niloc85]

Hmmmm. The concept is same as age of Wushu scissors paper stone combat style where attacks are green (block) blue (break parry) red ATK skill). Blue interrupts block interrupts red interrupts blue.

[@ecolguner]

This is the most helpful video I've seen about this game yet. Thanks

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

I like how this guy trying to convince us we can't trust our own eye's, you got some kinda Jim Jones thing going on here.

[@devindillard1918]

I appreciate when people try to be unbiased when promoting a game. I take on everything you say better because I know you’re coming from an angle of wanting a better game and not just promoting garbage. Breath of fresh air, and I don’t even watch this game it just randomly showed on my feed lol

[@paintspot1509]

People should be comfortable calling garbage garbage. TL is definitely one of those cases.

[@ondowmosa6283]

With so many players asking why there is a constant voice talking while they play... Which is the voice assist, the very first option you are given as you open the game and they don't even bother reading that first line of text... Boy. Imagine them reading and understanding the depths and intricates of this game's skills so combat can shine way more.

[@albelnoxofaquios]

It cant be as stale as final fantasy 14's combat. I love the game but god it's hard to enjoy the gameplay, carried by the story, good ideas for raids too tbh but coming from WoW and GW2? the combat in FF feels like slow motion, T&L looks amazing!

[@feintdelusions8922]

Hey there Kanon, this class looks exactly like something I'd wanna play do you mind telling me what you picked? The two daggers with the huge sword looks awesome.

[@joshuaSand3rs]

Should just show us actual combat and let us decide if it's good.A question though, does this game only has greatsword, bow and dagger? I only see people from this game talking about these 3 weapons. And if any class can use any weapon it is kind of stupid imo. Just imagine you being versed to fight with any weapon, that's a true martial artist. Lol. But imagine if you can use any weapon and everyone is always using the same ones. ,😑. Because all i see is bow, dagger, gs.

[@msonix]

There's plenty of pvp vídeos on KZbin if you wanna see combat. People explaining mechanics like Kanon? None. So yeah, this content is needed and helpful.

[@paintspot1509]

The game has terrible balance and almost 0 support roles, so yea everybody plays the same build with the same gear with the same skills.

[@msonix]

@@paintspot1509 what are you talking about, that info is more than outdated. there's variety in class, and support roles are absolutely essential in both endgame pvp and pve.

[@denjideadbrain]

WHAT Archeage mentioned? now I'm definitely looking forward to playing this! Waiting for the obt lol

[@xISolsticeIx]

Im annoyed when i cant cast a skill when im in not the right position i only hear beep beep i wish you can cast a skill even if your not in the right position btw im melee class

[@danielcheng769]

ok now this gives me more hope, its tab target but at least have decent depth and some action combat elements.

[@paintspot1509]

Keep in mind that the "action" parts are script hacked. This is why the game died in Korea, everybody has a perfect block script running.

[@gaborfabian3967]

Age if wushu had this rock paper scissors type combat and it worked well until they started adding super armor to everything.

[@Adartaer]

Combat it's not only rotation, animations, speed etc. in Throne and Liberty Combat is weird because of "weird camera movement/rotation" For example if you press A or D your character doesn't run right or left like in most games, instead it begin to rotate around its own axis in a given direction, we can even see it in the video the camera is facing forward while the character's is turned back in Throne and Liberty you have to correct the camera all the time, that's weird.

[@michaelray1st]

perhaps its a setting? bcs it does not quite look like it in the video

[@Adartaer]

​@@michaelray1st No, this is probably a remnant of the old combat system which was supposed to be static. Look closely 01:08 how his character and camera "act"

[@ANTHRAD]

@@Adartaer You're pretty on point. I've played the game before and dude, first thing i noticed is how weird the camera is. It felt like my camera had a delay and i was playing at 25 FPS even tho i was actually on 120+ FPS all the time, it's the weirdest shit i've seen. The default controls are also really bad. I don't think the combat is BAD bad, but it absolutely could see improvements on camera and controls to feel more responsive, smooth and fast.

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

lets hope the polish combat in the future after they added most of the needed content for game and polished that.

[@TheRoadsProductions]

Have you played the game? The settings in throne are extremely flexible. You just need to take the time to set up the controls to your liking. If you want to control camera with keys you can. If you want to do so with mouse you can. If you want move character with wasd you can. If you want to click to move you can. If you want a more “action” type camera control setup you can. Literally every type of camera and character control I’ve seen in any game is achievable in this game. You just need to take 5 mins to adjust your settings as you like

[@JordanIdk]

It's the biggest piece of dog s - the rock gif goes here.

[@NastyGenV]

This is kinda like dcuo which i played heavily back in the day and enjoyed i was already kinda hyped to play it but now that i seen these elements im a little more excited so thanks for showin this

[@Anaemicdog]

Theres no way they incorporated Naraka blade point rock paper scissor combat system into this game

[@darka86]

Thanks Kanon. You deserve more subs bro.

[@lechuck475]

For me the gameplay feels like the auto play game it once was, just a bit better. But the camera, the movement, all of the basics are just not where they need to be. So nothing of the systemic depth that was shown really matters at all sadly

[@Goodolddays931]

Hey. Nice video. I was hoping someone could help me out with a clarification. So.... -QBlock counters Fury Attacks. -Wrath Attacks counter QBlock -QDodge counters Wrath Attacks but also Fury attacks. What is the downside to always using the QDodge ans skipping the QBlock all togheter i PVP?

[@egomuffin7119]

Qblock without roll if done successfully will stun the enemy attacking you. if you roll it won't. a stun is a very strong CC, that makes you win the 1v1.

[@Goodolddays931]

​@@egomuffin7119Thats just the Greatsword tough? Seems like something is missing in the equation.

[@MrKaniu47]

Its reminds me of ESO combat, so it could be very good

[@Akyran]

interesting, now explain the other weapon combos pls :D how do casters, healers & ranged dps work?

[@paintspot1509]

Forget healers, ranged dps is just a skill spam with different animations.

[@armored-clown]

It’s pretty bad because it was shoehorned into action combat from a mobile game/auto play combat. It undeniably feels bad compared to mmos that came out 10-20 years ago

[@xGhrinzz]

another banger

[@ethangraner7102]

I have not looked into the game that much but have been curious. What class is this? Looks exactly what I would enjoy. Or is there no classes, more like a new world style?

[@Toygunucar]

like new world bro but p2w :D

[@egomuffin7119]

this class is Greatsword+Dagger.

[@cheshirefoxxx]

ffff kkkk my eyes are tired after work and i'm sure i'll have like 3 second reflex time.. just going to play casually, they best have a ton of content ready by xmas if they want my money

[@laffertyj55]

What is your next game going to be when this doesnt last 2 weeks?

[@Crobian]

Still waiting for an MMO that copy pastes Naraka Bladepoints god tier combat

[@Mercanertesi]

That gaming speed... i should keep playing wow classic.

[@msonix]

Godspeed.

[@teddyoflove5897]

I liked this game a lot when I played in KR server at launch. Devs are moving to the right direction and it seems it will be even better now. Kinda sad that there is so much biad against ncsoft and this game in particular. I think a lot of people will come with their negativity and immediately drop the game as early game/combat can seem little underwhelming compared to higher levels.

[@enzotheold]

Buts most of the fights are zerg vs zerg 😅

[@ofensatul]

exactly , huge turn off.

[@Getright33]

I really wanna be excited for this game I just idk. I haven’t seen ANYONE say the combat is better than BDO . And that’s my only issue . If it’s not better fighting wise than BDO I can’t see myself playing it over BDO 😢 And I Crave for w new MMO I CANT FALL IN LOVE WITH AND STAY THERE 😂😂😂

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

It really is what you like with tnl its not possible to get bdo type of combat since game is about large scale fights with hundreds and sometimes thousands of players. So i would say play what you like best !

[@skympii6734]

it has different combat than BDO, its a tab targeting combat while BDO is action combat and i dont think we will see an MMO that has better combat than BDO anytime soon

[@excoupe]

​@@skympii6734I'd say Lost Ark's combat is so much better. But I can understand how top-down camera angle is not for everyone.

[@Clara.8775]

Bruh I love BDO combat and yeah nothing will top it so sad 😭

[@ratedxvn]

I like tab target and action combat MMOs I say if you ever get bored of BDO just hop in TL sometime and try it. The only thing is you wont get the full combat experience until your max lvl. If you don't like it just go back to BDO. As long as you don't give in to the P2W (BP and Sub) aspects then I argue is no harm no foul ya know?

[@LagerthaPVP]

I really want to play this! This will be the one boys lets all believe!

[@djKSX]

And now i'm hyped 😝

[@agelisausful]

this game got me hyped for massive fight like Lineage II most of the ppl will qq because it's Korean before even trying it :S

[@paintspot1509]

TL is not like lineage 2

[@isth3reno1else]

Great review. I never got into end game on t and l because I was waiting for NA launch to really play. I found the combat to be a lot of fun and fast paced and have been waiting patiently lol.

[@geotag1272]

in 50v5 or 30v30 does this still matter?

[@rabbibunga7492]

Yess if you get dove as a bow dagger use and you dodge roll you literally just escape so you aren’t doomed when caught it you’re good enough

[@Zoretsu]

For me i dont enjoy mmo that have auto attack this is why i like black desert online dc universe online Tera thats why i never got into wow the way i see it is if a game is doing half the combat for me its not really me fighting its like someone has half the controller while i have the other and it just feels lazy and boring i hope chrono odyssey does not have auto attack

[@macmuffinz1641]

I'll save you 12 minutes of blabla : yes the combat is boring as fuck for anyone looking for some nervous, fast paced, strategic fighting style.

[@danielshade5085]

Which server are you playing in ?

[@sebastiantroncoso2958]

Lineage 2 C1 combat > anything else

[@nikachigogidze9383]

why does everyone have their abilities on 1,2,3..9,0 can you not bind them to other keys?

[@Swerg20]

You can, but most of us use MMO mouses. Other keyboard keys commonly used already have some binds like Q being your block/evade. I did switch E though since it was just the auto attack by default

[@isidornimages]

Why does that training NPC look so big? They have a giantess race in the game?

[@Zoretsu]

Nope just human

[@jacksheldon8566]

sometimes i wish other mmorpg would copy GW2 combat system...

[@videosuu300]

combat is ok, not great but it really fall behind in 2024. I have played games like Neverwinter,bdo and new world, which in my opinion their combat system is on next level. The closest comparison would be GW2, but I felt GW2 did a better implementation of the combat system, feels faster in GW2 than it feels in TL. By no means its bad

[@andrasylvan9915]

Some reviews out there about the combat are outdated infos from months ago. The content creator just want to pump up some videos.

[@nekrovx]

So is this mainly a PVP game? I have watched the first 7 mins and all I hear is CC and prone dmg. If so I will probably just stick with lost ark.

[@novahgod]

TLDR combat bussin, could use much more AOE's though, LOVE YOU KANON BABY

[@demianpelos]

The Dodge should be done with double directional key instead bloq + directions

[@deleth]

i tested archage long ago, but only played it for some weeks, never reached end-game, so i don't really remember the combat there, tested TL for 6 month on kr with some friends. On my first weeks playing the game i hated the combat, i will say a combination of between too much time since playing another tab target and the feel of "action part" don't mix well with the lock target part. I would say later when i got used and they added more tweaks to it, it was a lot better but i still feel the action and lock target part don't really blend together. but in the end i would say combat is decent. On pvp it could have all the deep you want, but i always felt it was 1cc KO (except for tanks). witch is kinda lame imo(at least for small scale pvp, need to test those 3v3 tho), that being said, i still enjoyed a lot, some of those big scale pvp battles form the first months i played, it was a lot of time since a played an mmo that really felt as an mmo.

[@Rajjesh.]

has this been released in the west yet?

[@ratedxvn]

Open Beta starts July 18th at 17UTC and the Release is Sept 17th

[@rashid2898]

this will be mostrly pvp focused?

[@BattousaiHBr]

it's a pvp mmo in case you missed the memo. there's some pve and they're adding more but the focus is pvp.

[@angeloflores2614]

so they have attack speed stat thing hmm.. im not build for this kind of game cant follow so fast movement that literaly toss out all the skill animation im more like games that show skill animation. overall i think this game will be great

[@xecor4450]

Put gw2 and T&L side by side zoomed in on character and press movement, jump, dodge and skills keys. You will see instantly why t&l combat is dogshit in under 5secs. T&L has isometric, mobile game like camera movement and player controller. Not to mention the people sliding everywhere or the dogshit pointer arrow on peoples head that take all of the visual space where the attacks land. Does this game has jump? i have never seen anyone jump in this game. The less the skill expression and control on player controller the worse the combat is. This game would break all records if it just copied gw2 combat but they cant cause they changed course and aimed at mobile gameplay during development and now its too late. They just had to do 1 job and copy 1 of their own ips combat and they couldnt. Thats why the game is bad and dead

[@laoch5658]

its good. i liked it

[@KillerDudeT19]

how is it compared to ESO tho?

[@Jinir]

TLDR is mid

[@Zepher-1023]

Seems like its not going to be fun to pvp on higher ping.

[@lordMaroza]

It never is.

[@baytownoutlaw9992]

its not going to be fun no. Its 2 much going on to be anything but spamming abilities it's not really pvp

[@eragoncranel]

Where's Quavan's future self...??? 🤔

[@Butcherbg]

I pause on second 16th to say this: I haven`t played T&H myself once... and just by having seen your streams and a few gameplay/itemization/character videos... when I hear "It`s mobile game like Combat" ... it hurts me... I do think the combat of this game is good (I don`t like the style of both weapons visible @ once at all times, but the seamless transition between usage skill wise, of the skills themselves ~is kind of very ok). However what is true (if it is true) is that if it really is all at once ~multiplatform... meaning Mobile, PC and Console on it actually really is limited by the most inferior device in the trio... the mobile phones... but I have heard that from only one person in his clips and I am assuming he have banana for brains? Can a person on mobile device actually participate on T&H GvG scale even on the most cut down graphics ever... I do know Androids of today are no potatoes, but I have also seen it stagger even on your PC on like ~boss fights or something... It does not compute... and even than... if it is all 3 devices on one server (because it is also very actual player number dependent game, so even that 1 guy with the bow shooting you from his mobile phone somewhere in the world will make some sort of a difference...) it is quite admirable for what it is... But the PC gameplay, on PC... as seen on your stream and from clips seems very pleasant and it is most likely to be even more pleasant to actually be played with. Last but not least >this is >not< a mock by someone that plays BDO> and specifically on it`s latest class Dosa that even on early stages equipment on ~bearable for single player remastered smooth gameplay PC feels kind of awesome (not sure about actual practicality, but visual and feel wise on bellow mid current PvE grinding spot in his success form... that swift long Katana and the smoke wave clear of the pipe are ~mind blowing... tbh) (Now the facts are I am too tired and other stuffs to actually do that, so I will un pause the Kanon video instead to see what he have to say is another story.)

[@MyFavouritesclips]

I think its been said numerous times that this game has never released for Mobile. They mentioned something for the future, but i believe it was some kind of reworked and launched separately for mobile platforms. The cross platform will be on PC, Playstation and Xbox.

[@paintspot1509]

This game was literally designed for mobile play.

[@paintspot1509]

​@MyFavouritesclips yet it was still built on mobile game files. Most of the game was taken from lineage 2 mobile.

[@justsaying3176]

any eu guilds to join for global?

[@ModeKaioken]

Bro no one is watching these guide in english until this game comes out here and while its good to get the guides out earlier I think its smarter to put out the content when its relevant. Like we don't base our like or dislike of the game on the non NA version. Look at lost ark like these games could have completely different prog in different zones of the world which almost makes it an entirely different game to grade. Like the week before its launch in NA drop a guide a day or something and they will pop off. You should do some first decendant or once human videos as filler till then if you want to farm views off the NA crowd lol.

[@v-ia]

this isn't a guide, it's a discussion. he's creating hype for the release of the game. obviously you do that before release.

[@ShakyBay]

The combat is for sure worse than Archeage imo. MMOS gotta release with BDO Combat, its 2024

[@iJokester]

💯

[@MONSTERCRUSHER2000]

I think the problem there is its extremely hard to have the pvp you have in tnl with that combat, tnl is massive combat hundreds/thousends of players sometimes.

[@paranoidxz2360]

AA combat is disgusting compared TL, what are you saying buddy?. Action combat isn't profitable is so expensive build it and so hard to polish it for massive content. For PVE is okish but those games are not oriented into PVE content.

[@Jay-ft3xh]

Most people enjoy skill expression instead of rng dominating their pvp experience kiddo

[@jeffreycomique3464]

lol BDO combat is garbage, stop it with those dashes and desyncs.

[@DavidHeich]

no mmorpg has better combat than archeage, considering the addition of Mount usage , Glider usage, Pet usage in archeage, Weapon swaps. in highend gameplay you use 6 different mounts, 15 different gliders, 1 pet and atleast 6 weapon swaps. no other game matchesd highend combat in archeage, it is an esport basically. TL is unique and i would love to experience it though.

[@fedeph665]

This game looks good but i have played Lineage 2 for more than 8 years and everybody knows how it died, NCsoft killed the player base with pay to win selling safe enchants and every whale was running around with +15 weapon, armors and jewelry, or some bullsh1t item that boosts stats by a big %. Throne pay to win may not seems that bad now, but im 100% sure that later in like 1 or 2 years they will start selling more absurd pay to win stuff like overpowered weapons or something like that to make whales feels like they dominate the game, and then, the player base will die once again.

[@neroxoren2140]

Ok Baba Vanga...

[@ratedxvn]

I didnt play L2 much but I could see this happening. Its not like I dont believe you I will just play and if it gets super predatory I will just go back to my original MMO

[@paradopx8618]

1-2 years? Bro that’s gonna be the game from day one launch

[@ratedxvn]

@@paradopx8618 This comment shows you haven't done any research on the game or just refuse to open your eyes because its a "'stereotypical Korean MMO." This Korean MMO is obviously trying to be different... Have fun on WoW I guess with your tokens...