Is The Count of Monte Cristo TOO LONG? + Dealing with grumpy Dumas | Spoilery Book review

[@LarryHasOpinions]

I am aware that the pic at 1:25 is not actually Edmond, I've never watched the movie, don't come @ me, sorry! :-D

[@ConsistentAsh]

Saw your channel after browsing around so I decided to stop by and let you know you have a great little channel. Seems to be doing quite well and I wanted to just show some support. Keep up the awesome job!🙂

[@LarryHasOpinions]

Such a nice comment, thank you so much!

[@jeanpierre3103]

Edmond Dantes (aka Count of Monte Cristo) and Rodion Raskolnikov - imagined themselves equal to Providence, considered themselves entitled to judge and execute people. Both acted on the basis of purely personal motives; neither the one nor the other was motivated by some super-personal idea - neither service to the deity, nor the improvement of society, nor anything like that. And both deeply repented and renounced their chosen path when completely innocent people died as a result of their actions. Raskolnikov could not bear the pangs of conscience, having killed Lizaveta, and in the end turned up to confess to the police; and Dantes, who successfully took revenge on his sworn enemies, suddenly spared the main culprit of his misfortunes - Danglars - only in order to calm his conscience: an innocent child unexpectedly fell victim to his combinations, which had previously amazed only villains worthy of death. Despite the purely personal motivation for their actions, both main characters tried to embellish it in their eyes with illusions about the super-personal nature of their mission: Monte Cristo inspired himself and those around him that he was an instrument of divine justice, and Raskolnikov sometimes fantasized about the good deeds that he would do with the money taken from the old woman-pawnbroker. Both Raskolnikov and Monte Cristo not only repented of their murders: they both fell on their knees before the God, confessed their insignificance to him and repented of the sin of pride. Clinging to the tragic Christian humility that unites two so different writers - the gloomy, ponderous Dostoevsky and the outwardly light, cheerful Dumas - that is achieved through the suppression of pride.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

interesting parallel, thanks for watching

[@zemastor3650]

Definitely agree! In the chapter "Ideaology" (11 pages in unabridged, 4-1/2 pages

[@jeanpierre3103]

This part of the disguises is based on Eugène-François Vidocq who was a former criminal turned cop, he was great at the disguises. Vidocq also inspired jean valjean in Les Miserables. But he didn't decide to stop being a criminal because of a priest, he saw personal benefits there, let alone spent his life nursing an orphan, he was a man who enjoyed life well. As long as Edmond is not punished for his revenge, a person who takes revenge would not necessarily be punished like the princess/saint olga of Kiev who made one of the most brutal revenges and was not punished by her, she died old. As for the fact that Edmond and Mercedes didn't get together, it was hardly possible due to the hurt of the past as it was with Aleksander Solzhenitsyn and his first wife. Solzhenitsyn abandoned his first wife, who married while he was in prison to married another woman. Aleksander Solzhenitsyn was married to Natalya Alekseevna Reshetovskaya, when he went to the gulag, she divorced him after he was released. She marries Vsevolod Sergeevich Somov. After his release, Solzhenitsyn was sent into exile to a settlement (the village of Berlik, Kokterek district, Dzhambul region, southern Kazakhstan). He worked as a math and physics teacher from 8th to 10th grade at the local high school by the name of Kirov. In June 1956, by decision of the Supreme Court of the USSR, Solzhenitsyn was released without rehabilitation for the absence of a body of crime in his actions. In October 1956, she visited her ex-husband in the Vladimir region, Torfoprodukt station, where he was a teacher at the time. . In 1957, Solzhenitsyn moved to Ryazan, and in the same year they remarried. But the relationship was never the same, there was bitterness in him towards her, he did not forget that he was abandoned by her and that she married another while he was in prison. Later, the two admit that they made the mistake of trying to enter the same river a second time. Natalia devoted herself entirely to her husband. She helped him diligently in everything, fulfilled all his wishes. But his he was getting more and more distant from her. He later ended up meeting Natalia Dmitrievna Solzhenitsyna (Svetlova) whom he married a second time. Solzhenitsyn's first wife attempted suicide and yet he divorced her to marry his second wife. Haydee's sadness without the count reminds me of princess Nino Chavchavadze's sadness without her husband. She loved a friend of her father, the poet and ambassador Alexander Chavchavadze. When he was murdered she was filled with immense sadness. After hearing of her husband at her death in Teheran (January 30, 1829), Nino gave birth to a premature child, who died soon after. Pursuant to Griboyedov's will, Nino reburied him to Mount Mtatsminda, Tbilisi, and ordered a grave stone with the inscription in Russian: "Your spirit and achievements will be remembered for ever. Why still does my love outlive you?" This epitaph also figures in the novel Ali and Nino by Kurban Said when the couple visits the gravesite in Tbilisi. She never remarried, rejecting her numerous suitors and winning universal admiration for her fidelity to his memory of her. She spent most of her unhappy life in the Tsinandali residence, frequently visiting Tiflis and her sister, Ekaterine, in Mingrelia. Nino died in 1857, and was buried next to Griboyedov. On the burial stone of Alexandr Griboyedov at the Mtatsminda Pantheon in Tbilisi, the statue of Nino is depicted weeping over the death of her beloved husband.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

very interesting, thank you! :-)

[@dominiquecarrie3316]

Aaaah I love the Count of Monte Cristo, I just recommended it in one of my videos! I read it a long time ago when I was in middle-school so definitely very accessible (at least the French version). I wasn't even aware that there was an abridged version - is that done often? that doesn't feel quite right to have a book shortened, clearly the author wanted to write it a specific way so one might or might not like it but rewriting it feels wrong ^^ But I really want to re-read it now :) Nice video!

[@LarryHasOpinions]

thanks!

[@zemastor3650]

Yes, abridged editions were done VERY often. There were at least 3 of them (produced from 1892-1920) that kept the language of the 1848 English unabridged edition, but removed different sections of the original. I'm reading them now, and I can say that they are shorter, but not an easier read. In fact, the editing makes the pacing even worse, because the most exciting parts (finding the treasure! Caderousse murders the jeweler!) were condensed to 2 short paragraphs, surrounded by wordy sections lifted verbatim from the unabridged original. There are 2 more modern abridgements, with the language updated, that are currently available. One is in public domain, and republished by Signet Classics, Barnes and Noble classics, Scholastic, Simon & Schuster, Borders classics, TOR, movie tie-in edition. That one is decent, but is missing some pretty important parts. The fate of several villains was left up in the air, implying that they actually made out all right, instead of getting their just desserts. The best of the abridged editions is by Lowell Bair. Done in 1956, the language still reads well for 2021 audiences, and Bair covers most of the most important parts of the story, and leaves in enough character dialogue to be enjoyable. But he removed Haydee's backstory, and it's painful to see that missing, every time I read this!

[@LarryHasOpinions]

@@zemastor3650 sounds like you're a real connoisseur, thanks a lot for your comment!

[@dominiquecarrie3316]

@@zemastor3650 thanks for the explanation! I don't think I'll pick up an English version anytime soon but that's super interesting :)

[@johncrwarner]

Wasn't The Count of Monte Cristo a serialised novel like Dickens - who often has "flabby bits" that are no longer needed but when this is a monthly serial of a few chapters and something has to happen and you need a cliffhanger to keep people reading and buying the next instalment. Can I ask if your native language is Italian, as you read this in Italian to get a feel for it closer to the original? If yes, have you read "The Lehman Trilogy" by Stefano Massini the Italian verse drama / novel on the history of Lehman Brothers which has been staged in many many countries and famously at the RNT in London.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

yes it was serialised, i mention that as a reason for its length together with the way writers were being paid, which is why i feel justified in recommending going for an abridged version :-) i have not read massini's trilogy i'm afraid, i have to say its length puts me off... is that something you'd recommend?

[@johncrwarner]

@@LarryHasOpinions It is in free verse (verso libero) so the lines tend to only fill half the page I am working through it but I have an Italian version and now the English version It is interesting and Massini has said that growing up he knew some Jews so learnt about Jewish family life and used that to create the text. I think it was performed on RAI5 as a play and would like to get an audiobook in Italian to hear the verse structure.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

best of luck with it, let me know how it goes :-)

[@johncrwarner]

@@LarryHasOpinions It is in my slow reads pile so I don't read great chunks or steam through it.

[@johncrwarner]

@@LarryHasOpinions so I might be gone some time LOL (apologies to Captain Oates)

[@jeanpierre3103]

This part of the disguises is based on Eugène-François Vidocq who was a former criminal turned cop, he was great at the disguises. Edmond Dantes (aka Count of Monte Cristo) and Rodion Raskolnikov - imagined themselves equal to Providence, considered themselves entitled to judge and execute people. Both acted on the basis of purely personal motives; neither the one nor the other was motivated by some super-personal idea - neither service to the deity, nor the improvement of society, nor anything like that. And both deeply repented and renounced their chosen path when completely innocent people died as a result of their actions. Raskolnikov could not bear the pangs of conscience, having killed Lizaveta, and in the end turned up to confess to the police; and Dantes, who successfully took revenge on his sworn enemies, suddenly spared the main culprit of his misfortunes - Danglars - only in order to calm his conscience: an innocent child unexpectedly fell victim to his combinations, which had previously amazed only villains worthy of death. Despite the purely personal motivation for their actions, both main characters tried to embellish it in their eyes with illusions about the super-personal nature of their mission: Monte Cristo inspired himself and those around him that he was an instrument of divine justice, and Raskolnikov sometimes fantasized about the good deeds that he would do with the money taken from the old woman-pawnbroker. Both Raskolnikov and Monte Cristo not only repented of their murders: they both fell on their knees before the God, confessed their insignificance to him and repented of the sin of pride. Clinging to the tragic Christian humility that unites two so different writers - the gloomy, ponderous Dostoevsky and the outwardly light, cheerful Dumas - that is achieved through the suppression of pride. As long as Edmond is not punished for his revenge, a person who takes revenge would not necessarily be punished like the princess/saint olga of Kiev who made one of the most brutal revenges and was not punished by her, she died old. As for the fact that Edmond and Mercedes didn't get together, it was hardly possible due to the hurt of the past as it was with Aleksander Solzhenitsyn and his first wife. Solzhenitsyn abandoned his first wife, who married while he was in prison to married another woman. Aleksander Solzhenitsyn was married to Natalya Alekseevna Reshetovskaya, when he went to the gulag, she divorced him after he was released. She marries Vsevolod Sergeevich Somov. After his release, Solzhenitsyn was sent into exile to a settlement (the village of Berlik, Kokterek district, Dzhambul region, southern Kazakhstan). He worked as a math and physics teacher from 8th to 10th grade at the local high school by the name of Kirov. In June 1956, by decision of the Supreme Court of the USSR, Solzhenitsyn was released without rehabilitation for the absence of a body of crime in his actions. In October 1956, she visited her ex-husband in the Vladimir region, Torfoprodukt station, where he was a teacher at the time. . In 1957, Solzhenitsyn moved to Ryazan, and in the same year they remarried. But the relationship was never the same, there was bitterness in him towards her, he did not forget that he was abandoned by her and that she married another while he was in prison. Later, the two admit that they made the mistake of trying to enter the same river a second time. Natalia devoted herself entirely to her husband. She helped him diligently in everything, fulfilled all his wishes. But his he was getting more and more distant from her. He later ended up meeting Natalia Dmitrievna Solzhenitsyna (Svetlova) whom he married a second time. Solzhenitsyn's first wife attempted suicide and yet he divorced her to marry his second wife. Haydee's sadness without the count reminds me of princess Nino Chavchavadze's sadness without her husband. She loved a friend of her father, the poet and ambassador Alexander Chavchavadze. When he was murdered she was filled with immense sadness. After hearing of her husband at her death in Teheran (January 30, 1829), Nino gave birth to a premature child, who died soon after. Pursuant to Griboyedov's will, Nino reburied him to Mount Mtatsminda, Tbilisi, and ordered a grave stone with the inscription in Russian: "Your spirit and achievements will be remembered for ever. Why still does my love outlive you?" This epitaph also figures in the novel Ali and Nino by Kurban Said when the couple visits the gravesite in Tbilisi. She never remarried, rejecting her numerous suitors and winning universal admiration for her fidelity to his memory of her. She spent most of her unhappy life in the Tsinandali residence, frequently visiting Tiflis and her sister, Ekaterine, in Mingrelia. Nino died in 1857, and was buried next to Griboyedov. On the burial stone of Alexandr Griboyedov at the Mtatsminda Pantheon in Tbilisi, the statue of Nino is depicted weeping over the death of her beloved husband. The Prisoner of Château d'If or (Russian: Узник замка Иф, romanized: Uznik zamka If) is a 1988 Soviet drama film directed by Georgi Yungvald-Khilkevich based on the novel The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas. The Prisoner of Château d'If (Russian: Узник замка Иф, romanized: Uznik zamka If) is a 1988 Soviet drama film directed by Georgi Yungvald-Khilkevich based on the novel The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas. In the 1988 version, the cunt disguises himself as a priest for Caderousse.The film introduces Artanyak, Count of Monte Cristo's assistant and he takes care of certain bureaucratic matters instead of the count going deguise.

[@SophiaClef]

This book made a a reader! I used to read from time to time, but THIS ONE was soooo exciting I couldn't put it down. I used to be afraid of big books, too. I read it when I was 13 so I'm a bit afraid to reread it.

[@zemastor3650]

Just wondering, Larry, have you heard of "Exact Revenge" by Tim Green? I bumped into it reading an introduction section of one of the many abridged editions of "The Count of Monte Cristo". Tim Green basically admits to lifting the entire story and transporting it into the modern world, with a bit of "The Shawshank Redemption" tossed in. It's a quick read, and far less complex than the original. Interested in hearing your thoughts or rants about it!

[@LarryHasOpinions]

never heard of it tbh, will make a note but can't promise anything, thanks for the recommendation! :-D

[@onceuponabookishsteph]

Will definitely be back to this video once I have read this book, very quick though, should I read it or skip it? haha

[@LarryHasOpinions]

i'd say read it but not the integral version, you can read ze mastor's comment below if you're interested, he has some good recommendations on how to approach it "It's better to start with the Classics Illustrated comic book, or the manga version (not Gankutsuo) or a good abridged version of the book first, like Lowell Bair's 1956 translation/abridgement."

[@Charles-ly3js]

I love Edmond Dantes and how he cares little about society's moral values and how he acts by its rules. Values, institutions are simple human inventions created for certain circumstances and certain interests, they can be circumvented or perverted. After believing in the system, he revolts and follows his own laws, his rules and he punishes his enemies and follows everything according to his own principles. Life is a simple meaningless void and the being human creates a meaning for it, Edmond he gave revenge the meaning of his life.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

Thanks for your comment

[@AverageJoesLibrary]

Our videos may be carbon copies cause I have all these notes written down 😂 damn. Oh well. Plot conveniences yes!

[@LarryHasOpinions]

haha yes there were a few

[@jeanpierre3103]

The Prisoner of Château d'If or (Russian: Узник замка Иф, romanized: Uznik zamka If) is a 1988 Soviet drama film directed by Georgi Yungvald-Khilkevich based on the novel The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas. The Prisoner of Château d'If (Russian: Узник замка Иф, romanized: Uznik zamka If) is a 1988 Soviet drama film directed by Georgi Yungvald-Khilkevich based on the novel The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas. In the 1988 version, the cunt disguises himself as a priest for Caderousse.The film introduces Artanyak, Count of Monte Cristo's assistant and he takes care of certain bureaucratic matters instead of the count going deguise.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

i wasn't aware of it, thanks!

[@bentheoverlord]

I think the worst bit for me was the middle, it just totally knocked me into a slump, but once I got past that I quite liked it.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

yes the middle was the the most challenging section

[@bentheoverlord]

@@LarryHasOpinions I am however excited to try more classics thanks to this

[@AverageJoesLibrary]

Just finished as well and am planning on doing similar, reflection and rant of it. I have lots of thoughts and agree with a lot of yours.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

cool, i look forward to it! :-)

[@MsReadsAlot]

But that isn’t the young Edmund Dantes in the movie 🤣 (it is his son.. sad that I know that) I agree with you though that the book up to the end of the prison section is the best part of the book. Your editing is fantastic. Really made me laugh. How many languages do you read/speak?

[@LarryHasOpinions]

i know i know, i only found out after i finished the video so i left it in, i never watched the movie so dont come at me haha, english italian and french but my french is very rusty :-) thanks for watching!

[@MsReadsAlot]

@@LarryHasOpinions it made me laugh! I am such an American. I speak only English, high school level Spanish and enough Farsi to say, hi how are you? And It was delicious, I am full (my mother in law didn’t speak English)

[@ScientistsReadingWorld]

Great talk :D I want still to pick it up but is kinda big xD The book sounds amazing I love revenge stories :P

[@LarryHasOpinions]

thanks! If you scroll below to one of the other comments it says "It's better to start with the Classics Illustrated comic book, or the manga version (not Gankutsuo) or a good abridged version of the book first, like Lowell Bair's 1956 translation/abridgement." In case you're interested in the story it might be worth taking a look!

[@TheCodeXCantina]

Your thoughts here are what has always made me shy away from this book.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

abridged is the way to go! :-D scroll down to ze mastor's comment, he has some really good recommendations, thanks for watching :-)

[@GunpowderFictionPlot]

I believe you captured the essence of Dumas smartarsery in this video, except that in real life he would have borrowed all your money and fled to Florence... Loved the hilarious editions. Not a fan of abridging this one myself, but it would certainly make the novel less intimidating and get more people to read it.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

haha thank you :-)

[@zemastor3650]

It's my opinion that an unabridged edition, even one by Robin Buss, is too difficult for someone just walking into the World of Monte Cristo with no prior knowledge of the story. There's just so much detail that it's easy to miss some of the most basic parts of the story and the characters because of the barrage of information, some crucial and some disposable. It's better to start with the Classics Illustrated comic book, or the manga version (not Gankutsuo) or a good abridged version of the book first, like Lowell Bair's 1956 translation/abridgement. After getting one's feet wet, then it's time to do a deeper dive into the unabridged version. A lot of people *don't like* abridged editions, because something is always cut out. I see it as a necessary evil... the complete tome is physically intimidating, and, to be honest, there are large sections that are meandering, and huge blocks of dialogue that don't push the story forwards nor define the characters and/or their motivations. Pages and pages are devoted to Cucumetto's rapist gang, and the story of Carlini and Rita have no impact whatsoever on anything that happens story-wise or character-wise afterwards. After reading/scanning through SIX different abridgements (ranging from 404-672 pages), each with varying degrees of success in capturing enough of the flavor of Dumas' original, I'd truthfully say that yes, The Count of Monte Cristo is TOO LONG. My estimate is that up to 1/3 of the novel can be cut out... a sentence here, a paragraph here, some dialogue that goes nowhere there, the perfect pocket-sized edition can exist. If only Lowell Bair was interested in doing a revised edition (if he's still living), restoring the fun gossipy opera chapter Robert de Diable with its shocking revelation, The Count and Mercedes' quiet meeting in the cool garden at The Ball, and Haydee's backstory, then that perfect edition can be produced. BTW, I am definitely convinced that Eugenie Danglars is a lesbian! I also read the comments on Goodreads, and some people just don't want to see the obvious. And as for money... I got completely confused about old French money and had to look things up to gain an understanding about what people are earning and paying for, and how much the Count's gifts/bribes were really worth. And speaking of money... Mercedes, at the end, is content to live for... what... the rest of her life on the 3000 francs that Dantes left for her? She has lost her will to live and to work and intends to just exist. Yet the telegraph operator said that a 1000 francs/yr income barely covered his needs. And a 300 franc/yr (converted from ecus) retirement pension would have been a sad pittance. So, how far would those 3000 francs go in supporting Mercedes, then?

[@LarryHasOpinions]

that someone with your love and level of knowledge of this book agrees that it's too long makes me feel completely vindicated haha! Thank you so much for your comments, they were incredibly interesting to read.

[@zemastor3650]

@@LarryHasOpinions Thank you, Larry! YW. BTW, the first five chapters of Lowell Bair's edition is on Amazon.Com as a "look inside!" sample. Take a look and compare it with the 1400 page tome you've got, and you can see the difference for yourself!

[@AJ_Dunn]

I really loved this book and it flew by for me. I think The Three Musketeers is better though. I don't think it's unnecessarily long. Back then, they didn't have much entertainment or that many books, so a long story would be very entertaining. We have short attention spans today. Of course it's farfetched. That doesn't bother me. The Lord of the Rings is farfetched, but we love it, don't we?

[@LarryHasOpinions]

the lord of the rings is fantasy though :-D i have not read the three musketeers

[@AJ_Dunn]

@@LarryHasOpinions 100 Years of Solitude isn't and that is farfetched. I'm like a dog with a bone Larry.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

@@AJ_Dunn haha but that's magical realism (been 20 years since i've read it but im pretty sure). Soap operas are far fetched but might still be enjoyable, that's a more fitting comparison imho :-D

[@AJ_Dunn]

@@LarryHasOpinions I would say that adventure stories are allowed a little bit of ridiculousness, telenovella syle.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

@@AJ_Dunn yes thats fair enough :-)

[@attention5638]

It is a long book, for sure. I have been wanting to pick it up for a while now, and probably will as soon as I am finished a few of these other thousand plus page book I am reading now. But I was also pretty new to reading book that size at the time.

[@LarryHasOpinions]

yeah probably not a good idea to have several books of this size on the go at the same time :-D thanks for watching!

[@SophiaClef]

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this!

[@OverlyAverageBen]

long book scary

[@LarryHasOpinions]

yeah, have you read it Ben?

[@OverlyAverageBen]

@@LarryHasOpinions nah I haven't, I saw you lot in the discord reading it and decided to avoid 😂 I think I'd probably have dnfed it

[@khakimzhanmiras]

it has no business being this long

[@herrklamm1454]

Far too long.