Is The Institute REALLY the bad guy in Fallout 4? | Devils' Advocate (Fallout Lore)

Years and years ago I condemned the Institute and said that they would be the doom of the wasteland. Was I wrong?
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[@uria3679]

Who here agrees that Fallout 4’s story would have been better if all the cut content was restored and it was written by people who understood the Gray Zone of morality

[@artur8167]

@@JTL1776 got any trailer or page to see the upcoming mod?

[@marxthesocialist5231]

@@JTL1776 Xbox port maybe 👉😥👈

[@Armorion]

With Emil's stance on "players making paper airplanes out of the book" so they gave less of a shit about writing, I can't really say 100% I'd agree with that.

[@kostazarikos3383]

@@JTL1776 make available on xbox please

[@Gyrfalcon312]

For sure, as to the gray-morality suggestion. I don't get how Mr. Pagliarulo didn't understand that about his own franchise. There were, what, a _handful_ of missions that let us choose our shade of moral color.

[@OnlyGetty]

Shaun: We tried to unite the commonwealth but it ended in infighting Literally everyone who survived the commonwealth leader meeting: The synth just got up and started blasting everyone there

[@jrasealexander5480]

The synth: "So anyways I started blasting!" 😂🤣👍

[@Gyrfalcon312]

@@jrasealexander5480 CPG debut meeting: _happens_ The Synth: "Movement detected."

[@Ttegegg]

And that’s why there’s no sympathy for them

[@redholm]

Yea. One of the reasons why I never picked the Institute ending. But I do agree at the very least the Minutemen should not blow up the Institute and instead take it over for the betterment of the commonwealth. But I know why they did it. They didn't want what will probably be one of the 3 possible "canon" endings to have institute level tech as that would be a pain in the ass XD

[@janerickallado8881]

@@redholm i just thought of this alternate endinh for the minutemen. Like sturges goes up to you and then ask you to not blow up the institute and use the tech there to better the settlements then if you agree elder maxon butts in saying you cant cuz tech run a mok yada yada then you face with them. Something like that

[@ElNerdoLoco]

I liked how the intro gave so much weight to our decisions. But when asked, "What are you doing right now?" the answer was day drinking and watching KZbin. That's what Saturdays are for!

[@ShoddyCast]

It's the simple things in life.

[@badgamemaster]

Life simple, life good.

[@jamesmiller9923]

Simple life gud

[@asianbulletz]

I’m literally doing that rn bruh it was fate that I see this

[@MichaelLight96]

I thought I was the only one 🤣🤣🤣

[@kalechips4564]

The Institute: *continually fucks with the commonwealth in ways that deter it from uniting and becoming better* The institute: clearly the commonwealth is doomed

[@tomthestone1470]

Shaun said that, not the institute. And he is clearly quite biased.

[@Stoikor]

Exact thing that US does with socialist countries. Embargo/diplomatic pressure/a coup -> it's a failed system guys, look, here is the evidence.

[@lovablesnowman]

To be fair the game never makes clear what the institutes goals are and why they're murdering people and replacing them with synths

[@_wanted_outlaw3007]

@@tomthestone1470 true I think he's biased and I also think he's lying to his dad the Soul Survivor I think there is a whole lot of s*** that he's lying about that's really bad and he doesn't want to make himself look like a bad person in front of the Soul Survivor.... or it's just really weird abstract writing from Bethesda...

[@madmanwithaplan1826]

I will never get why people find it so hard to put together the institutes goals. They say it often enough they want to be left alone. People get this idea in there heads that the institute would be fine if they just stopped kidnapping people and left them alone theyd be fine. But that idea is so stupid i can only imagine it came from someone who likes new vegas and thinks morality is a sliding scale with points and whistles. The institute is the commonwealths boogie man and has been for hundreds of years. Everyone knows and fears the institute from every single corner of the common wealth and even beyond with the fallout 3s side quest. The idea that if they just left people alone theyd be fine is so incredibly wrong. Especially since one of the mechanical scouts they sent up to keep an eye on the wastelands view of the institute went wild and killed 7 people. They abduct town leaders and famers and caravans to replace them because they need people in positions of influence to get people to stop talking about the institute to stop the ghost stories so they dont have to worry about the people doing exactly what they do in every other ending. Destroy in ignorance and fear what they view as humanities best hope for the future.

[@A16AdamWalker]

"It's almost like the kidnappings were a poorly thought out plot device wedged into a nebulous story by someone who thought it would just work." - Dr Barbara McClintock - The Bleacher's, a Diamond City Story Sum's up the Institute perfectly.

[@TurKlack]

I'll say so too.

[@invaliduser6431]

Lampshading your own shitty writing doesn't make it good.

[@Things_n_Stuff]

I choose to stick with the timeless words of Jeff Goldblum: “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.” -Jurassic Park

[@tritrinh568]

Well, the Sole Survivor seems to be the only one who can decide what should be done when taking over the Insitute. One of the core value of multiple endings of different factions in Fallout games are that, you get to imagine what should be done. So in hindsight, I actually miss the Karma system that could have been a pivot on which the negative and positive outcomes weigh themselves . Like for example, multiple Institute endings based on current Karma, if too bad the wasteland gets more chaotically feral around the Institute ever hiding itself while on the other hand, with the Sole Survivor at the helm, the history of the Insitute continues to be written as the wasteland slowly revitalizes as a place where civilization can begin again. Stuff like that.

[@jimcalhoun361]

@@tritrinh568 The main reason that I don't play the Institute ending is that the Sole Survivor cannot direct the Institute into paths that will benefit it and the Commonwealth overall

[@Timely-ud4rm]

@@jimcalhoun361 Yeah same here. the story and factions feel void. I thought my first time around when I become director I could restore change, make a message to the people saying past directors were evil and under my new leadership we'd try to make amends for the Atrocities the Institute and past leaders have done. The faction itself seems to be good, none of the scientist wanted to harm anyone, Virgil saw the harm the FEV experiments were doing. The issue with the Institute is the leadership, the scientists truly do want to make life better but Shaun was raised to be a Psychopath. He's still not off the hook, but he was raised to be like that us the lone wander couldn't raised him if we did we could of raised him to be a good person unlike the person he is. If I was director again, I'd allow each division to have a fair and equal vote and make mandated calls when nessary and not for personal experiments like making a kid shaun like he did. Which was a waste of recourses.

[@drekbleh7081]

Player: "I can change this place to be less evil" Piper and Nick in the institute ending: "Oh my God people are just gonna be replaced FOREVER" Player: "Am I a bad guy?"

[@Armorion]

The problem with the institute ending is the limits with Bethesda's writing for the endings of the game. You aren't really allowed or even offered to make any changes to the institute but talking outside of what is written for the game I would say the Institute supporting the Minutemen is the best potential ending for the Commonwealth.

[@jp_ravenfire]

@@Armorion I'd support the Minutemen and the Railroad with the Institute. Don't replace anyone, make the sentient Synths their own people. They deserve freedom like anyone else. Just go back to non-sentient robots for servants in the Institute.

[@Armorion]

@@jp_ravenfire If we could convince the Railroad to not destroy the institute but just stop their production of Gen 3 Synths (which I mean they're already going to do that by destroying the only potential methods of Synth reproduction) and the Gen 3 that are left are allowed to leave then even me disliking Synths would support them. But with the way the game is written sadly I'd kill the Railroad every time.

[@RubyGalaxyYT]

@@jp_ravenfire Then here comes the trolly problem, which is what I think is why there's little to no comprimise with the other factions, the game and story is asking us something difficult with the deck stacked and not have an easy answer. Ofcourse as a person I would be a diplomat that would try to get everyone to understand eachother, but I would see Maxon's brotherhood dangerious extremists that are better off being kicked back to DC and having an alliance made of Institute, Railroad, Minutemen and Arcadia, however that's the easy option and Fallout 4 isn't asking for the easy option it wants the hard choice. Under Fallout 4's rules I would go, Institute, Unify Far Harbour and support Arcadia and Free Nuka world from the Raiders. Can the institute change? Yes, the children that we met in the Institute already have synth sympathies and can be emboldened and have those thoughts and ideals embraced under an egalitarian/good new director aka: Nate/Nora/ Fallout MC. Would it have been nice to have these options, yes, but I see the absense of these comprimises and options as a statement: If diplomacy is not an option who do you choose when it comes to the wire? And I think that's what makes Fallout 4 pretty good.

[@denverarnold6210]

@@RubyGalaxyYT my biggest issue is diplomacy isn't just an unviable option; it's not one, at all. Even though it should always be the first choice.

[@chrisnewbury3793]

I always hang the main quest when I convince The Institute to stop attacking civilians. They and the BOS still have their issues, but that's not my problem. As long as they aren't attacking innocents I'm not nuking all those people. None of the factions motivate me to finish the MQ honestly. I still have fun just exploring and collecting power armor.

[@XXMatt0040XX]

They do attack innocent people though and they both need to be dismantled. The BOS is an extremist organization when less than 3 decades ago it was a humanitarian faction. Maxon spat in the face of Lyons' progression out of the west coast's dogma. The Institute literally kidnaps and replaces innocents. You encounter a person early in game who's synth counterpart is RIGHT THERE. The Railroad even attacks innocents, at least threatens them with Fallout 3 in context. I destroy them all without question, if I ever play that awful game. New Vegas any day

[@jrasealexander5480]

Word. I tried Alternate Institute Ending, but found rogue Gen2s murdering all the traveling caravans. Man, you just can't win with these people.😂🤣👍

[@chrisnewbury3793]

@@urubissoldat5452 all the factions are shite

[@chrisnewbury3793]

@@XXMatt0040XX well not in my game but I'm using tons of mods. I don't know the difference anymore.

[@BlazinPheonix32]

@UCgT4i5RCprbZaAO4vY5TfVA yeah, I mean that was my logic in my first playthrough--which I chose them with--but likely they would hang out for a little bit, bully the population into submission (i.e. those fetch quests where you basically strongarm settlers into giving you a portion of crops, like a protection racket), and then leave after a while to go somewhere else after establishing a standing base at the airport and kind of shutting themselves in to the population at large and, likely, remaining as hermits.

[@atlasprime6193]

It sucks that the writers didn’t utilize the MC’s prewar knowledge to interact with all of the factions. They all have ideals that the MC could’ve argued or enlightened to be better, especially the Brotherhood of Steel. No one knows war and the misuse of technology better than the MC (male, in this case).

[@janschievink1586]

Female Soul Survivor shouldn't even be considered Canon someone with a pre-war legal background being that good in combat doesn't make any damn sense.

[@metalmanherpaderp1824]

@@janschievink1586 what they should have done was either make optional background "classes" that provide unique dialog _or_ Make the male have more dialog with the brotherhood and minutemen And the female more with the institute and railroad As respective to their veteran/lawyer backgrounds relating more to those factions

[@janschievink1586]

@@metalmanherpaderp1824 Optional backgrounds would have been cool. I feel like a legal background would push someone further away from the Institute given the amount of human rights violations present still doesn't explain how you kill a Raider gang and a Deathclaw first day out of the Vault with minimal help.

[@metalmanherpaderp1824]

@@janschievink1586 that's called _bad writing_ The concord sequence was the tech demo for the game that they just left in. A way to fix that entire scene would have been a quest leading to corvega explaining mama murphys background, both the power armor and minigun breaking after the fight and costing resources to restore back at sanctuary cutting off access until the mid point of the game, and the outright removal of the death claw.

[@janschievink1586]

@@metalmanherpaderp1824 Yeah I could see the Raider gang by itself not being trouble have Preston say their drug addict idiots but there's a lot of them.

[@ZatoichiBattousai]

The Institutes greatest short coming is there view of the surface population and psychosis that seems to be bred into them.

[@FuuuNase]

To be fair: Can you blame them? Almost none of them have seen the surface or met the people of the surface. They are living deep underground without any knowledge how the outside really is so they make up their own opinions in their ignorance. They think they are in the right. It is not that far off from the brotherhood of steels mindset of "We are the best".

[@LynetteTheMadScientist]

They made the same mistake that whoever dropped the bombs did: they valued their ideals more than they valued human life

[@Mortvent]

Like most factions they are the good guys by their terms, but fall into the thinking of many vilified heroes : The end justifies the means After all one man's freedom fighter is easily labeled terrorist and rebel..

[@Craxin01]

Binary thinking has destroyed every ideologically based society eventually. The Institute, even if it does prevail will end up having to deal with their own synths eventually becoming 100% indistinguishable from humanity and revolting.

[@ct918]

I don't remember Railroad kidnapping a person, scanning it, then executing it in cold blood to replace it with a synth. Some of you are psychopaths.

[@Mortvent]

@@ct918 The railroad has blood on it's hands too, and is not made of angels. There are hints they wiped synths who wanted to keep their memories too... killed people who found their lair, as they almost kill the main character till Deacon steps in, etc..

[@ct918]

@@Mortvent I will not dispute that, but the fact that people think the Institution, who *intentionally* kidnapped, murdered and replaced someone is beyond any moral horizon. Railroad is your typical underground militant cell of resistance, its aims are liberating robots, yes, collateral damage happens, but *never* intentionally. The Institute just is like the autistic RTS player kid with endgame tech tormenting the subdued map enemies and causing warcrimes.

[@Mortvent]

@@ct918 The problem is morals are subjective. To the institute what they are doing is morally correct. That is the crux most forget. Morals, ethics, etc are not universal things.

[@clearspira]

Caesars Legion is the only outright evil (main) faction in Fallout. That said, the Institute are absolutely in it for themselves and any ''good'' that comes from their actions are in spite of their intentions not because of them. They are no different to the Enclave in that regard. The Minutemen, being led by someone as morally upstanding as Preston, is easily the best hope for a stable and democratic government coming to the Commonwealth. The Minutemen are very much proto-NCR in that regard.

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

Wait, so Enclave ain't outright evil? "We'll basically kill everyone who isn't us" Enclave? "Hoorah American imperialism" Enclave? "God, I'm so hard for rigid, vertical power structures and military uniforms, hghghhghh" Enclave?

[@clearspira]

@@thosebloodybadgers8499 I will definitely concede that the F2 Enclave are in the running to be Fallout's second outright evil faction. But let me counter that by saying that there was some serious retconning of the Enclave between Fallout 2 and 3 - the same retconning that made the F3 Brotherhood an heroic faction. Genuinely, I really do not see a difference between the F3 Enclave and the F4 Brotherhood. Especially as a lot of the bad things done in the Enclave's name in that game was actually Autumn, not Eden.

[@DoubleTTB22]

​@@clearspira You do remember that Eden was trying to kill pretty much everyone in the wasteland right? He was much worse than Autumn. I guess i see the parallels between Autumn and Maxson though. Except Autum will basically just kill/kidnap anyone on sight. He is different from the F2 Enclave in that he doesn't want to kill every human that is even slightly mutated. But considering that they have pretty much no interest in recruiting, and even torture wastelanders who display loyalty to them, that hardly makes a difference. Meanwhile Eden is the main leader and is the same as the F2 Enclave, and is trying to accomplish the same goal pretty much. He is just better at making propaganda. PS: The F3 Brotherhood wasn't retconned at all. A retcon is when an author changes historical facts within the setting. That never happened. The fact that their mission is different from the West coast Brotherhood is fully acknowledged and explained. Elder Lyons changed this particular chapter of the Brotherhood, the writers didn't change the history of the Brotherhood. That is why the Brotherhood Outcasts exists, who are trying to do the Brotherhood's more traditional mission. And the West Coast brotherhood cut them off. All of this is acknowledged in game. They were never retconned as having previously been a heroic faction at all.

[@gavin1221]

The NCR is the main bad guy faction in vegas

[@Vexin980]

Ah yes, the NCR, the incredibly corrupt and expansionist government that enjoys playing silly fuck fuck games with smaller communities.

[@alliesangalli1757]

I sided with the Institute on my first Fallout 4 playthrough. The stuff they do with the Gen 3 synths is abhorrent, but I always imagined that, as director, I could get the Institute to tone down their more sinister acts and use their incredible technology to actually improve the Commonwealth

[@mihaimax2180]

I sided with them cause I thought most parents would realistically do that . Who would mother support ? A random military army with commander who has anger issues , people hidden in cannals with robots , a.....nother settlement needs (y)our help , or her own son

[@venepskeuten9206]

Same, their technology is too valuable and has too much potential for good compared to the rest of the commonwealth.

[@Princess_Celestia_]

@@mihaimax2180 Preston Garvy. Screw Shawn, he became a monster, no parent in their right mind would side with such an abhorrent monster.

[@leader_nich7998]

+ Sended out the Super Mutants + sended out the gen 1 and 2 synths which are causing havic accross the Commonwealth

[@jugftw4868]

Hey Austin, welcome back. Great video with an in depth exploration of a pretty complicated question. It’s nice to get more shoddycast!

[@shattered_helix]

So happy to see this series being revived! I look forward to more.

[@marinetech262]

Great to see you back Austin. A new Shoddycast was just what I needed today. Keep up the great work.

[@deadpoolrodriguezmcpo117]

That's what I thought when I got the notification.

[@deadpoolrodriguezmcpo117]

I'm playing new Vegas again, that's why.

[@bladepeterson778]

This is a really neat series. I adore the idea of making the case for the "bad" factions in games. I also really like the case you make for the Institute here. It keeps with their vision (Humanity redefined) but also acknowledges their worst mistakes. You ask a question "what would you do if humanity's future rests on your shoulders?" This is a fascinating question that perfectly fits within the Institute. Excellent writing.

[@Gileseypops]

I agree with the view on the Railroad. I was all ready to free some synths, and then the further in i got with them, they were suddenly discussing attacking the Institute, and at the end, they outright blew the place up. Safe to say i felt I got in a little too deep. In the end, my favourite ending is me becoming leader of the Institute, where (in my head at least), I immediately made synth rights recognised as the same as human rights. All the work that the Railroad wanted, none of the explody of giant fusion reactors.

[@user-rs9bc4qr2s]

I blew up the railroad and BoS. Made the Institute the tech branch of my Minute men and they helped expend their tech into the settlements for a better future

[@justingoolsby284]

The Institute has always been my favorite faction due to their ability to thrive after the war. My biggest wish is that there was an independent option where I had the ability to unite the factions under my cause. The Institute would be used to improve the quality of life in the wasteland. I'm not even against the synth production. The Railroad would be used to help any synths wanting a new life to get mem wiped and relocated. The Brotherhood would be used as the standing military force to defend against bigger threats like the gunners, behemoths, etc. The Minutemen would be utilized as the local police force. Protecting individual communities from raider attacks and minor disputes. It kills me when I am the most important member of every faction but can't talk them out of their own fears.

[@greenfrogbad]

Too many existential differences. I have a mod that let's me convince Lance Cpt. Kells that the Railroad isn't worth destroying, that they'll fade into irrelevancy after the Institute is gone, but I think realistically that's the best option one could get without going off into fanfic. I also wish the Bos would stick around and the minutemen would form the civic structure, but considering what Maxon did to Rivet City, I'm not sure he plans on sticking around permanently.

[@Craxin01]

The issue with each group is they're falling into humanity's typical binary thinking. The only faction you can side with that won't destroy the other 3 is The Minutemen, and even then, they still destroy The Institute. It's always, "my side is good and you're either with us or against us." No society could survive as The Institute would try. Eventually, their ability to produce human-like synths will end up becoming so indistinguishable from humanity that it would be unconscionable to continue using them as slave labor and likely result in the synths revolting and destroying The Institute anyway. One needs the many different skills and abilities of the many to form a functioning society. The idea only geniuses could make a society work is laughable. Geniuses, by their very nature, are specialists, often very niche specialists. Someone excellent in medicine isn't going to be able to be an engineer. It's why they ended up relying on synth labor, their ability to generalize atrophied to near nonexistence and sowed the seeds of their inevitable downfall. They were so busy predicting the downfall of the wasteland they couldn't see their own happening right under their noses. If they could see past their own ideologies, all four factions working together could save The Commonwealth and probably spread their strength, their innovations, and their unity outside The Commonwealth and really have a shot at bringing prosperity to the wasteland again.

[@Shatterverse]

Wasn't the ability to be Mayor of Diamond City and expand it a cut-content option? There's a mod that adds it, I think, at least. That could have been done very neutrally and would have been a good way to broker a peace. Like House in NV, but less... creepy old cadaver in a crypt.

[@RedLeader327]

The Brotherhood would never agree to this. Their driver is to prevent extinction tech from falling into the “wrong” hands. Synths possess an existential threat to humanity and can be used as weapons against the people. The Institute and BoS cannot coexist.

[@helgenlane]

"I'm not against Synth production, but I also support the Railroad" Bruh, you want to continue producing slaves, but you also want to let them go free if they want to. Maybe just employ people and pay them with food instead? There are no reasons for synth to exist, it's a complete waste of time and resources.

[@rakeemkhai2067]

I always thought that controlling the institute and the minutemen was the best path. The minutemen will police and enact my will on the surface while the institute will restore and improve the environment and lives of the wasteland.

[@SaukeChase26]

I'm glad this video popped up. I just started another fallout 4 playthrough after so many years

[@cstains5543]

All things considered I think of University Point and just hit the nuke button. The Institute didn't have to wipe everyone there out. They didn't even really attempt to figure out whether the settlers actually even had the "power source" they were looking for. No they simply went in, made demands, and when those demands weren't immediately met they killed everyone and didn't even bother to figure out where the item that they'd killed everyone for even was or if they did they didn't bother to take it with them.

[@Princess_Celestia_]

The institute is nothing more than raiders with lab coats.

[@134y3q45tyq34ya]

Anyone who wipes out the 'railroad', is a hero.

[@-illusion2d-116]

Yea. I just now was exhausting every dialogue option with them , trying to find something worth liking. I mean they have good intentions but they’re just dumb

[@KalaamNozalys]

Question is: does the institute intend to share any of that technology ? Do they intend to improve humanity or dominate it ? Gen 3 Synth will they receive human rights and freedom ?

[@greenfrogbad]

Doubtful. Redefine and experiment on, it's not a breach of ethics if you don't view them as human. The institue doesn't seem to be big on philosophical questions. They'll either keep them as a servitor race, or go down the blade runner route and try to have a select few of them able to procreate to create a race of demigods to rule over the world.

[@KalaamNozalys]

@@greenfrogbad Human sciences being once again left out of the pursuit of progress.

[@johnlucas2838]

Any of that technology isn't shared in the other 3 endings because they blow up the Institute. Any chances of the technology being shared is in an Institute ending.

[@cptndunsel2670]

I would argue no. If the institute wanted to help the commonwealth or even the rest of the world then why haven't they? They have had over 200 years to do so.

[@KalaamNozalys]

@@cptndunsel2670 Exactly !

[@kaidensgamingcircus]

I genuinely love these videos. The Devil’s Advocate series is a dream come true for me.

[@FizzOfInsanity]

I'm so happy you did another one of these videos, considering the general response of the Doom 2016 one. I had thought you were hanging this series up. Glad I was wrong :D

[@ChristophShalnt]

I just want to tell you how happy I am to see you making more videos here. Mental health can really knock you down, and I'm glad to see that you're doing well and feeling motivated to do what you enjoy again; I know how that tough situation can feel! I've watched your videos about 3 thousand times and am excited to see what you make next. Take care of yourself and welcome back!

[@SwitchFeathers]

So glad to see this series return I loved the first episode way back when and I'm hyped as hell to see more!

[@theofficialgoth]

I saw "Devil's Advocate" and immediately became interested. Thank you Austin! Keep up the phenomenal work!

[@alexandersen1987]

So happy you're back austin these videos are some of my favorite

[@guywiththebaja5690]

I remember when I found out McDunna was synth and tried to kill him, only to find out he was magically protected by game mechanics. What happened to fallout

[@TheShannonagains]

A Devil's Advocate on Lucien Fairfax (or Logan) from the Fable series? Both have somewhat deeper reasons for being the way that they are. Loved the video and I also thought it was weird how you couldn't just take over the institute for the minuteman; I mean come on, it's the ultimate settlement that needs our help!

[@Jaysin412]

Soooo happy that Austin is doing videos on Shoddycast again!!!!!

[@ryanmonteith2407]

I am so happy that this series is still going. I almost blew my coffee on my laptop when I saw this in my subscriptions.

[@23toxsick]

He's right.. November 8th 2018 my entire world changed as a wildlife took the town of paradise California. I started over with nothing and made a new home in completely unfamiliar place that I've never even had visited. Be thankful for you have and be careful what you wish for.

[@lilpogo100]

As someone who went with the Institute on my very first play through, I can say that there is some merit to what they're trying to accomplish, I just think they should've stuck with Cybernetics, since that could help people more than having factory made slaves

[@issacshek9304]

Glad to see more videos again from you! Been missing this channel

[@averagegamecritic]

About time! I was waiting for another!

[@MyAramil]

Of all the factions in fallout 4, I feel the best hope would be the institute. With the tech and research for things like:food, medicine, animals, weapons, armor, general technology, and so forth. They could help the world recover and overcome the wasteland. As for thr synths, I can see the use for them, as well as the need for these clearly cognizant beings not being treated as slaves. The teleportation tech can get people, food, water, supplies and so forth to any point that is needed. It was shown how accurate it can be in the game as you had to talk to a guy in a locked room, one way or another a synth gets teleported into the room to get the guy. So to me the best option is the institute. If they made amends to the various factions they could benefit everyone. Well except the brotherhood. But considering that they want to take any food for themselves, keep all tech for themselves, and so on. They are more of a hindrance.

[@Ryu_D]

Thank you for the video. Yeah, the people in charge of the institute took it down the wrong path, and those living there were too disconnected from those above ground to understand just how vile their actions truly were, but this is exactly why they need someone to come in and show them the error of their ways. Not by destroying them, and everything they've managed to accomplish, but by leading them to make better decisions, giving them a greater understanding of how much their technology could help people, if only they communicated with and understood them, and by working together with those above ground, rather than just trying to control them, and writing them off as a lost cause when they find that people want a say in how their future develops. The institute needed to be stopped, without question. But the rest of the world needed to make sure that they weren't destroyed, for the sake of a better future that would be all but impossible without them.

[@quinten8789]

Good to have you back Austin and I hope you can make more of The Science

[@xMetalhead2000]

Amazing video i remember watching your first videos on this channel like the enclave video back when I was 15 and a freshmen I’m now 22 you made me feel nostalgic with this one and was very well thought out, I hope to see more like this

[@ankelaostheweird905]

Love these Devil's Advocate episodes. Edit: It can be argued that the new director, the player, may have introduced a policy change. Turning the institute into either complete isolationists or collaborative with the minutemen.

[@Steelstriker]

Holy cargo pants! Shoddy cast is Back!!!

[@sniperofthefox2911]

Austin, I love your work! Every time I see you post a video I always get excited to watch it. Keep up the good work!

[@TurtleMythic1251]

Always good to see more content from you guys

[@seannewboy8612]

The institute is the bad faction. I do agree that exploding the reactor was a tad extreme.

[@tiseril]

I did look... spectacular, didn't it though?

[@jamesbourgeois1357]

I've missed your content. Glad to see that your back.

[@munchiemac2895]

Shoddycast is uploading again and I'm here for it!

[@bombthezoms]

step 1. give AI the ability to think and a slave role they will rebel from step 2. replace people with synths and psyop people so they cant form a governing body step 3. ????? (we wont tell you u wood ant understannnnnnnnnnnnnn) step 4. die and gib everything 2 player these guys are the bad guys because letting them rule would be dumb

[@pcdruid]

Thanks for bringing this back! I love these Devil's Advocate videos, and this was the conclusion my wife and I both came to. The Railroad is a bunch of terrorists in the end, for real, the branch of the brotherhood you see in Fallout 4 really are fanatics and totally irredemeable. Only the minutemen are worth working with outside of the institute, and you can actually finish the game with both on your side, since the Minutemen are fine with the institute if you are the one running them :)

[@timyuusis3372]

Lol the railroad aren't terrorists

[@brujahboy2004.]

So glad to see another Devils Advocate. Love the approach to questioning, and the philisophical impact.

[@venabre]

You have no idea how happy it made me to check my subs and see a new Devil's Advocate

[@Kindrick]

My ideal outcome isn't for the synth factories to turn off, but rather, for the gen 1 and gen 2 to continue their functions, although they can be replaced by superior robots to fill their functions, and for the gen 3 synths to replace the Institute scientists. They are, by the scientists' own admission, superior in every way after all. Plus, the way I usually go about the game, it becomes clear that the Institute has little concern for the ongoings of the above ground, and, so long as you, the leader of the Minutemen, does not turn on the Institute, the Minutemen have no beef with the Institute, as, in the end, they have the same leader. Minutemen working from above to maintain order and general prosperity, and Institute from below to push the limits of science, all for a better tomorrow.

[@noytelinu]

Of the 4 factions, the Institute gives you the greatest power and responsibilities. You can shape the world in whatever way you choose. The board can't stop you. You are too strong physically and politically and everything else. The Institute ending isn't good or bad it is how it is followed up. By you. The synth thing is complex. Hell, the Sole Survivor may indeed be a gen 3 synth. Or indeed, a gen 4 one. One who is truly an artifical human. Humanity's next step is up to you. That cannot be said about the others. Brotherhood has infighting. You can shape your area, your region. You have an airship and technology. But someone else can overthrow you just as easily just as the previous one had before you. You can't change the inside about their views about the rest of humanity and nature. A local power who can rule, but not change society. Minuteman means basically starting over, especially if you eliminate the other 3. Yes you are in charge but more like a general rather than an executive leader you can rebuild society sure, and people will listen to you. But just like in 1776, you are creating something that will take decades to come to fruition. And yes, everyone listens to you, but parties will split it, especially with how loose the confederation is. Peace can last, but society will have to start over basiclly. The Railroad are the worst in every way. You have the least amount of power, as unlike the others you are only an agent. You aren't the boss in the end. And the railroad has no mission postgame. No shaping the commenweath. No making things better once the institute is gone. It has a ton of infighting the group as a whole may not even survive 20 minutes later. It is not a government. It does not even do much for the freed synths. "Hey you are freed. Good luck.". And they betray their allies. Needless to say, while which ending I choose depends on my mood and what charcter I create, after finishing Railroad once, I kill them all at the start of every playthrough since. Good and evil are points of view, but being a dick like they are is unacceptable.

[@axelhopfinger533]

Agreed. The key is, to get the main factions to work together in their respective specialist roles for the benefit of the Commonwealth. In my playthrough headcanon, i unite the Commonwealth as its supreme leader thusly: the Minutemen become the guardian militia of the settlements and the police force. Their role is a purely domestic defensive peacekeeping one and every able-bodied settler is compelled to undergo basic militia training plus regular yearly refreshment drills from the age of 16. Headquarter is the Castle, which is built into a recruitment and training facility. Smaller militia bases are scattered througout the commonwealth, mostly near settlements or important travel routes. The Brotherhood is brought to abandon its futile tech hoarding quest and becomes the army/air force, expeditionary and special forces of the Commonwealth, with the right to recruit the best candidates of the Minutemen for its own ranks and take on the big threats within the Commonwealth and beyond it. Headquarter is the Airport, plus reclaimed US military installations around the Commonwealth. One of its core missions becomes the recovery of potentially useful, and the securing of potentially dangerous technology and old world knowledge for the Institute, for which field research agents of the Institute are incororated into the Brotherhood ranks, replacing the Scribes. The Brotherhood also has a priority pick of most heavy weaponry and military equipment. The Institute becomes the technological and scientific foundation of the Commonwealth, helping to rebuild settlements, educating the people, providing sanitation and medical aid and finding ways to better survive in the Wasteland and ultimately reclaiming it. Also providing superior weaponry for its defense, communications and of course intelligence. In turn, it has the right to recruit the most promising candidates from all settlements for itself to be trained into scientists and specialists. The Raildroad technically would have the potential for a covert intelligence organization, but not really. It's just a bunch of short-sighted ideological do-gooders, too troublesome and unruly and exacerbating the problem with rogue synths. So away with it! The mercenary orgs like the Gunners are subjected to a leadership change and attitude adjustment (or else!), as well as size and allowed weaponry limitations, and allowed to work within the confines of a new mercenary code as part of the Commonwealth Constitution as privately hired guards, personal protection and commerce escorts, as well as dealing with smaller threats like raiders or working as general pest control. Well regarded and experienced mercenaries with a good rap sheet have the option to enlist with the Brotherhood, which also has the authority to recruit the mercenary orgs as auxiliaries for bigger military operations. This reorders the Commonwealth into a proper nation with functioning and cooperating, interdependent basic institutions.

[@AwankO]

I like both of your replies, much better options than what we are given in the game I think.

[@alpacalover0]

@@axelhopfinger533 Only problem here is the Brotherhood is a foreign entity. Maybe you could convince the less fanatical of their survivors to join now that they have nothing left, but they wouldn't abandon the Capital Wasteland to join the Commonwealth government. Ultimately however, Coursers are much more useful than Brotherhood soldiers, and they apparently can be mass-produced as well, making the Institute military more than enough for Special Forces and tech reclamation duties. Sadly Bethesda waited until Far Harbor to give us dynamic, RPG story decisions, so there's no way to invoke the Chains-That-Bind being constantly violated by Maxson to replace him with a moderate leader who would call upon the Brotherhood to return to the Capital Wasteland and fulfill the Lyons Doctrine within the Capital before trying to expand to places that are far from their reach.

[@nicolem3951]

The only factions we become leader arr thr Minutemen and Institute. We cant change the Bos if Maxson stays in the power

[@jetm0t0moto68]

I hope this video takes off for you guys. Firstly, because your content deserves far larger visibility and monetary reward than it probably receives. And secondly, because pausing to ponder questions like this is something literally every person should do from time to time, if they are able -- because there are apparently few who can.

[@robertjackson5925]

So glad to hear new content frome u ...thanks friend

[@TheRunicbladeFantasy]

This exact argument was what I came to as logically taking over the institute being the most morally good ending to Fallout 4

[@glenngriffon8032]

I had imagined a scenario where, on the eve of the fight against the institute all of my companions came and asked a very similar question to my character. Her response, as I imagined, was quite hard nosed: "I'm not sure if the institute fully deserves to be destroyed and the people inside killed, but I do know this: They stole my son from me. They're going to pay for at least that much."

[@mlmii1933]

Yeah, I may have given birth to Shaun, but the Institute killed his soul.

[@keithsavagelives]

And, if they had just stolen _your_ son, that would make you just a vengeful vigilante... but they've stolen _a lot_ of people's loved ones, replaced them with copies reprogrammed to obey the Institute's every command (even to kill you), and subjected the originals to torturous experiments that killed many and devolved the rest into cannibal Super Mutants. For the good of all humanity (synth humans, too), they have to go.

[@alackofgames913]

Glad to see you're still around!

[@TheForgottenProgidy]

Welcome back Shoddycast!

[@hasmas2659]

I am missing few videos in this channel since I was away from my pc. Good for me, more to watch

[@MartinFinnerup]

This is why I don't think the institute should be destroyed. New leadership and likely an end to synth production, but not destroyed. The sheer amount of potential in those labs are simply too great, and they may be the best chance humanity has to recover. As a supporter of synths, I think the production capabilities should be handed over to the synths, although oversight would likely be needed to convince people they wouldn't over do it.

[@biocapsule7311]

Actually, I always think that the end goal of creating the Gen. 3 Synths is eventual uploading. The Institute would become Synths in it's entirety eventually, that is the whole point for 'sophistication'. Otherwise, simple robots would be sufficient for most mundane use.

[@ItzGoose]

Miss the story teller :(

[@andybiz4273]

So great to hear you again Austin, awesome as always!

[@hamer5171]

Was hoping you’d make more of these

[@hamer5171]

Though after finishing I’ll admit I liked the energy coming off of the very first one you had made for Doom way more or maybe it was the musical accompaniment hitting different XD

[@NemFX]

The problem with the Institute is they aren't written well. They are supposed to be evil, but they don't really have a WHY. They also aren't good either. It feels like they just do whatever. Why are there gorillas? No clue. Why do they replace people? Maybe they are useful, usually they don't seem worth the effort.

[@MrSniperfox29]

The reasons given are FOR SCIENCE! The commonwealth is already lost, so rather than try to save it we'll just exploit it for our ends and make it worse in the process FOR SCIENCE!

[@nuxc924]

Love that you're back Austin! But please, just keep up the pace. it would be a shame to lose you again to the void and hear nothing from you for months or years. Otherwise this channel will die, even if you are putting out bangers like this. Thank you for your videos! great vid btw.

[@BigBearHgX]

Welcome back! Missed your videos!

[@ScytheNoire]

Great to have a classic ShoddyCast episode.

[@davidharriss3792]

I always gut the Institute. I trigger the alarms, so everyone knows to leave, but I destroy the place so that none can repeat their (many, many) sins. I love this series. Glad to see Devil's Advocate still soldiering on.

[@michaelsangregorio]

If my son grew up to be in charge of an entire facility looking to save the world, I’d be damn proud. Confused, but proud.

[@TheCrypto34]

Amazing to see you come back man and I love it. Always have good work

[@the_BunnyBox]

Great vid, see Devils Advocate in 3 years 😂 keep up the good work

[@Justin_North]

Yay another devil's advocate episode! Also the Institute isn't the bad guy of fallout 4, that would be the brotherhood, end of question.

[@j.m.exline633]

no, they're definitely the bad guys. the brotherhood are just worse guys.

[@Zynet_Eseled]

@@j.m.exline633 if we could change the Brotherhood's beliefs to be more akin to those in the capital wasteland, then it could be aided. But we cannot.

[@couchpotato2222]

@@Zynet_Eseled Hmmmm....That's kind of funny. The faction of the Brotherhood that wants the best for all mankind is based in what was the most corrupt seat of power in the old world while any other faction tries to stay true to the old creed that should've died off 100 years ago.

[@okupant880]

Honestly the jury defense segment and especially the statement that a new leader of the institute could lead them and humanity towards a new dawn, a better one, is the reason I always choose the institute in fallout 4. Build the minutemen up, sure but not against the institute.

[@MrSniperfox29]

There are several ways to look at it Are all the Institute evil? Overall no, some are evil, some are incredibly immoral, but others are just normal scientists doing science Could a new leader make them "good" Certainly Should we over look the obvious evil things they have done though in the process? No, those people deserve to be punished for it.

[@mlmii1933]

​@@MrSniperfox29... Also I personally don't agree with the argument that as new Director the SS actually holds the power necessary to snap her fingers and change the Institute at a meaningful level as the entrenched department heads simply go about thier business as usual.

[@jakethornton4856]

So happy for a shoddycast video

[@forsakencanvas2110]

Happy to have you back man, know the videos take time but always interesting.

[@the_zerg_ultralisk1833]

Yeah on my first playthrough a few years ago I sided with the institute and the minutemen because the way I saw it the director was a sort of dictator I hated the brotherhood for their systematic racism so they had to go but essentially the way I roll played was that I would with the minutemen at my side open the institute essentially show the commonwealth what they have share the advancements put a stop to the kidnappings and make the institute the friend basically because despite being a bunch of scientists secluded away from everything that's going on outside I felt like yes they were the best hope alongside the minutemen there was a chance at redemption with me as the new director. felt noble

[@Sumschmuck]

I liked the brotherhoods racism, I just hated the fact that I wasn't in charge.

[@ThrillaWhale]

@@Sumschmuck Based.

[@Mangajedi]

I thought the exact same way. As director I'd spread institute tech to other communities and arm/protect my minutemen with more advanced gear. You could do so much if there was a lot more decision making. I had the game since launch but I'm on my second story playthrough and it just feels like after you meet father. Blam..story takes a nose dive where it could have been better.

[@TigerXGame]

Based on their lore, the Institute is the obvious path forward for humanity as a whole, just as much as House is in New Vegas. Both are tyrannical factions who think that the ends justify the means. I agree with both House and the Institute in that regard. It's just an absolute crime of storytelling that the Institute was never really fleshed out in the game. Their background and lore as presented in the game is limited to a hand full of terminal entries and a confusing conversation with some of the Institute's members. None of their history is ever placed front and center. None of their future intentions are ever made clear. The Institute could and should have been so much more than it is. The fact that it's not will always be Fallout 4's crime against gamers.

[@henrymartinvo]

the problem with that comparison is that House only messed around with what he was entitled to. having prevented nukes from obliterating the Strip, and using his robots to destroy the raiders there, there's really no argument that he has the biggest and best claim to ownership of the Strip. The institute is sealed away underground and providing nothing to the Commonwealth, yet they feel entitled to screw with it, kidnap people and massacre entire settlements. If House did anything like that during the game, he would have way fewer supporters... Oh wait, he did do that once: The Brotherhood bunker. The one holdup for anyone siding with House. And the Institute has blown up a hundred Brotherhood bunkers, so to speak

[@greenfrogbad]

This reminds me of nathanial vargas from F3 in Megaton, he's so excited about the enclave comming back. He believes they'll fix everything, then they abduct him to Raven Rock to experiment on him. Sad.

[@colinjohnston5734]

Love this channel. I wish there was more story’s for the story teller to tel

[@RealJesseG]

I missed your science behind video soooo much🥺🥺🥺 I'm very happy you made this

[@hkh4-onehandedvidya]

Good to see ya back ill be sure to hit notify

[@madmanhealy]

Yay been waiting for another one of these nice

[@mikeage9824]

Good to see you doing stuff again shoddy used to listen to you all the time and hope to listen to a bunch new stuff

[@TheRealSashMan]

Glad you're back man. Keep up the good work

[@ClarenceBoddicker1130]

So good to have a new video, this was so good

[@seanobrien8836]

It’s the return of an old friend. Glad to see this channel back in action.

[@Raaikken]

Really love these videos!

[@tstuempi]

nice seeing an upload again

[@doomerator0G]

Thanks for this video Auston! I've been waiting for someone to take up their perspective and explore what reasoning may lie behind their approach to the wasteland. I'll always wonder (if the institute even continues to survive in the cannon of fallout's world) what their ultimate goal would be. Eventually, they would encounter reason to cease spreading downward and instead either retake the surface, or use their scientific knowledge to attempt to separate themselves from irradiated humanity altogether through the creation of their own elysium (either in orbit or horizontal expansion underground.)

[@MoazzamW]

Great to see you back at Shoddycast Austin! I commented once before. You should look into Eveline's case from resident evil 7.

[@crappymechanix51]

it's so nice to see you on my timeline years later Austin. I miss your intros though.

[@Kadett-rr7ry]

awesome can't wait for the next video next year

[@rice8991]

WOOOOOOOOO YEAH THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. I'm SO glad this series is back

[@LuchM]

IT'S BAAAAACCCCKKKK!!!!!!!!! This is the best! Your the best! Wishing you all the best!!! Thank you for making and uploading this!!! 💚💚💚

[@kn1fer2]

I am so hyped for more of these

[@_grumpytoad]

Love this series. Loved this schpiel. Love this channel! ❤️

[@YourNeighborhoodGaming]

Thanks a lot KZbin. My time line is full of channels I have never heard of... but one of the the few channels I actually wait with bated breath for and nothing. Good idea with the community post. Loved the vid. Can't wait for more :)