The tragic story of Fallout's Caesar | Devils' Advocate: Caesar (Fallout Lore)

Well, it's been a while. I don't care, I hope you don't either. Here's a video about the nuances of Fallout's greatest Devil, Caesar. We explore his rise to power, and what that means for the American Southwest in the post-war era.
POST-EPISODE DISCUSSION LIVESTREAM: • Devils' Advocate: Caes...
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[@ShoddyCast]

Link to the livestream VOD is here! Keeping it unlisted so KZbin doesn't ding me in the algorithm for having a 1 hour livestream up. Be sure to watch it after this, though! It was very thoughtful! kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWSagIBrZayanZI

[@tusk3260]

Yo, next can you make a video that explains why the NCR is doomed to fall on its own even if the win? In the NCR most citizens don't like the NCR but don't rebel because they fear the NCR's power. Just like the Vangraff's said: We can field a small army but the NCR can field a very very large army. HOWEVER, the NCR is using most of its army at the Hoover Dam, even if they win, it will cost the lives of most NCR troopers. After the battle, the other factions will see the NCR has weakened, then one will rebel and when the others see how long it takes from the war wounded NCR army takes to react, well it will cause a big domino effect and Poof the NCR is back to being just Shadysands. - There are a lot of power factions who will jump at the opportunity to make the NCR fall. The Vangraffs are just one of many.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Benny is the main antagonist, but that doesn't mean that he's the final boss, like Daggerfall's Lord Woodborne.

[@Bearrrrrrrrr]

Poverty would create slaves and raiders in the wasteland Homeboy... The Great Khans prove that.

[@GreenPhoenix117]

I do

[@captaincookie2785]

Could you please add this video the devil's advocate Playlist

[@ShoddyCast]

I've just been informed that it's not 2020 anymore, but in fact is 2022. Instead of inventing a time machine, I guess we'll do the livestream in Current Year. Anyway did you like this video as much as I enjoyed making it? I hope so.

[@m3rxstudios15]

I've been waiting for this, break out the pop corn!

[@tatuvarvemaa5314]

I haven’t played fallout, I have seen some videos on it from top 10 and 5 video games lists. But I really enjoyed this video, the best video games tend to have some amazing lore and villains and I cant wait to see more even if I haven’t played the game. Its like hearing a story or a folk tale, and you deffinately have the voice and the writing to make it an exiting and amazing experience.

[@BeardoChrist]

I watched it twice and sent it to every person I know who has played FNV. Great work Austin. The effort really shows.

[@silber724]

Love the presentation, even though the conclusion was underwhelming.

[@softlightlaboratory]

💔⛽♥️

[@cameronjadewallace]

Missed you Austin. Glad to hear you're doing better. You can really tell from your voice and it thrills me that you're back.

[@cyb3rp0nk]

Wasn't it Yosi talking?

[@chasegimbel1904]

He killed this channel I hate him

[@FeCyrineu]

Edward Swallow was a man that was taught at a young age, intentionally or not, that the world is ultimatly about power and domination. From the death of his father by another to the roman Ceaser's tales of conquest, he internalized that idea. So, when by the whins of fate and his own talents he got a chance to dominate and conquer, he did so. Whatever his ideological justifications are, it was always about power.

[@nickbrowning3270]

Power should be a means not a end, I think it’s a means for Edward

[@FeCyrineu]

@@nickbrowning3270 It's the end but he justifies it as a means. Humans make decisions based on emotions and then justify it using logic. Ceaser is an arrogant megalaniac who wants power and tries to justify that by using logic-sounding nonsense to others and perhaps even to himself.

[@nickbrowning3270]

@@FeCyrineu so the same would apply to someone like Marcus Aurelius

[@iamslightlybetterthanyou2679]

It’s about grind

[@markhantla7915]

By his own account, his rationale (explicitly Hegelian dialectics -- something this video didn't even touch on) is about course correcting toward the new realities of the environment against the outmoded and obsolete NCR approach. He sees weaknesses in the democratic republican system that brought nuclear post-apocalypse, and he sees folly in the NCR's attempt to recapture that style of governance. Caesar believes in imperialism and cultural homogeneity in a world of chaos. I can at least understand that, even if I don't share those values.

[@orionphalynx6192]

*My first brain cell:* "Seeing the rise of the Legion is thrilling, and terrifying." *My second brain cell:* "Caesar is a man of focus, commitment, and sheer will." *My last brain cell:* "BEARBULLBEARBULLBEARBULLBEARBULL!"

[@oofchanneltv6813]

Ah yes your last brain cell is infected by Ulysses's

[@Dr.CaveCurinas]

Ulysses has taken over your last brain cell like he took over ED-E

[@Conniveo]

@@Dr.CaveCurinas i thought you say "he took over EDP"

[@JasonGodwin69]

Ulysseys's Bear-Bull talk is un-bear-a-bull.

[@Dr.lumina]

@@JasonGodwin69 You committed great cringe take my like.

[@xle6114]

Glad you're staying true to trying to revive this channel and glad you're doing better

[@thetruegoldenknight]

Nice apostrophe use. I know we shouldn't be celebrating mediocrity, but that's just how grim and dark the world we live in has become.

[@xle6114]

@@thetruegoldenknight scary times we live in indeed.

[@catbox7958]

bread

[@maulerbeam1923]

@@catbox7958 cabbage

[@toasterkolin9951]

@@maulerbeam1923 egg

[@bwminich]

One of the fascinating things about Caesar’s Legion is that he based his government on Rome, but also pushed this ultra-nationalist vision, which is not how Rome worked, especially when it was expanding. Now, Rome could be brutal. Also, some leaders of Rome were . . . unwise in their brutality. But you’ll notice that Rome wouldn’t FORCE you to feel like you were Roman when they first took over. They would either install a provincial government or even work with a client king, a local ruler who submitted to Rome, and so long as they provided soldiers for the Legions, and paid taxes . . . Rome was pretty content to leave you be. They just made being Roman a VERY attractive proposition, so that within a few generations, when things worked well and the government wasn’t antagonizing people (look up the Latin Wars for a time when Rome was getting this wrong, they basically were denying Roman citizenship to non Roman Italians, and that didn’t sit well with those who had been under Rome’s control for so long and didn’t see themselves as separate, but man, they should be getting more representation in this system at this point), people basically started to think of themselves as Romans. Edward Sallow didn’t do this. Will his subject peoples end up wanting to STAY Roman? I kinda doubt it.He intimidates them while not giving them huge benefits that they couldn’t get elsewhere.

[@thepbg8453]

I think what Edward likely stumbled on was a modern interpretation of the Roman Empire. History has often been viewed through a contemporary lens and in doing so can often cause people of the day to draw conclusions of times in the past that were highly inaccurate. A good example is that many people today believe that people in the medieval period thought the world was flat. While maybe they had flat earthers of the day most people were not fooled into thinking the world was flat and were quite aware it was round: the fear of Columbus Men was less falling off the earth but not being able to sail for what people saw as a year long voyage. Same with many people today seeing medieval society as oppressive dictatorial and prone to lords mistreating their peasants is a conflation of thinking of the 1800's and the growing idea of the class divide being projected onto a very different socio-political system. Edward likely found a book that intepretated Rome through a highly imperious lens, likely a history book written in the mid to late 1900's, where a coralation was drawn to Rome due to the Imperial imagery adopted by fascists from the 1930's to 1940's. The conflation of images into what the public thinks of them, and how they are written about can at times be horribly inaccurate to the realities. So sadly the greatest joke on Edward is he did not recreate Rome. But rather a interpretation of it through a modern lens.

[@factotum6245]

The real world cesar genocided a million gauls, enslaved another million and repopulated france with roman settlers.

[@KevinJohnson-cv2no]

@@factotum6245 Yeah but he also significantly bolstered the senate ranks with those very same men, a move his successor Augustus would copy in order to help cement his power. One of the reasons Caesar was killed was because the weak senators believed he was taking the power away from true romans and giving it to foreigners (between his placement of Gauls on the Senate, and his relationship with Cleopatra). Sadly for the virgin nationalist senators, Rome's "melting pot" culture that Caesar and Augustus pushed into it would define the empire for all of it's history. Rome's modus operandi was clearly set in stone; conquer and assimilate.

[@valtontony826]

you're talking like you were there

[@bwminich]

@@thepbg8453 The two works he discovered was Julius Caesar’s auto-biographical propaganda pieces about his war in Gaul, and Edward Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, which is VERY MUCH an interpretation of Rome long after it fell. Edward Gibbon wrote these in the 1770-80s, and very much had interpretations of what happened that had less to do with history, and more to do with his interpretation of history. Gibbon definitely thought the introduction of Christianity was a big reason that Rome fell, it made people too soft (not taking into account that the middle-ages had a pretty muscular version of Christianity that was probably closer to what Rome adopted). Basically, Sallow’s interpretation of Gibbon is one that you could see someone wanting to be a strong man would take. Also, this means that the history Edward Sallow had was Caesar and Gibbon, which portrays the Roman Republic in it’s worst possible light, when it is at it’s most dysfunctional. Very easy to interpret the way Sallow seems to have wanted to. Finally, I have to think that giving Sallow the same first name as the historian he mainly got his impression of Roman history from was no coincidence.

[@BeardoChrist]

This was a well thought out character study. I think you should continue with this new format for the Devils's Advocate series. Have been loving your content for years now. Keep it up Austin. Even my girlfriend smiles when she hears "Hey it's me, Austin!"

[@hugoguerin2560]

8th p87888p88808

[@alliesangalli1757]

I really like this take on Devil's Advocate. There are some villains, like Caesar, who are fundamentally irredeemable and cannot be truly advocated for, even hypothetically. But, at their core, they're still people, and I find it fascinating to explore what leads a normal person to become such a villain.

[@sevenproxies4255]

I wouldn't say Caesar is completely irredeemable. As the merchant at Caesars camp explains, in Caesars Legion territory, there is no threat of raiders whatsoever. Trade is prospering. Brutal as Caesar and his legion may be, they did manage to completely restore order in their provinces, beating the chaotic and anarchic post-nuclear wasteland into submission. None of the other powerful factions managed to do this. Not NCR, Not the Brotherhood of Steel, The Enclave, The Institute, The Minutemen or anyone else. So Caesar, brutal as he may be, is the person who stood a real chance at being able to return North America to a state more similar to pre-war times, albeit modelled after his less than democratic and liberty oriented vision.

[@windhelmguard5295]

@@sevenproxies4255 Caesar is ultimately the best thing to happen to the wasteland. Historians often neglect the fact that all of our great democratic nations of today stand on the graves of monarchs, dictators and the like. France, the UK, Germany, Russia, Japan, Spain, Italy, Austria, and the list goes on, were all founded, unified, and stabilized by tyrants, the democracy, freedom and peace always comes after a tyrant lays the necessary groundwork. long after the legion collapses, as all empires eventually do, the shared identity, the discipline and the rule of law, he managed to beat into savage tribals will ultimately stick around, drastically increasing the quality of life of the people in his territories for centuries to come, while NCR will either remain a capitalist utopia where the rich rule and the poor have liberty only on paper, with raiders and chem pushers all around, gets obliterated by the legion eventually OR gets taken over and straightened out by a tyrant of their own.

[@jonnyg9865]

Correct. The Legion as it exists now, a roving army of soldiers and slaves, is beholden to Caesar. However the video fails to mention Caesar's goal to "settle" his Legion via synthesis, to transform these nomads into a standing army protecting the seat of a newly christened empire. After Caesar takes Vegas, the focus is to be shifted from Caesar to the empire, to the idea of Rome itself, which has the potential to endure long after Caesar has passed on. It should be noted everyone in-game with a gloomy opinion regarding the Legion's staying power is totally unaware of Caesar's ultimate goal. Everyone is under the assumption the Legion will wage war until the bitter end. Interesting how Courier 6 is the only one to know.

[@ao1778]

@@windhelmguard5295 democracy is the 51% against the 49%. Or, as Benjamin Franklin is quoted as having said, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch."

[@TDenterpriser]

Caesar is easy to defend its all about order vs freedom

[@RobearRich]

My family has owned a hotel on the Kaibab plateau near the North Rim of the Grand Canyon for almost 100 years. The fact that one of the tribes is the Kaibab (named for the Kaibab plateau) and the Fredonians (the closest small town to the North Rim) shows how much work they put into these games. Bravo! Great work Austin!

[@fiendish9474]

I honestly love how one of the most brutal characters in Fallout originated from one of the weakest and good natured factions

[@AshleySilverValentine]

Man, feels like it's so long ago seeing this channel uploads. Hope you can still keep this up man! The nostalgia hits hard with this one!

[@apolloforabetterfuture4814]

Love to see shoddy cast back. The production quality in this video is absolutely outstanding. I'd love to see more of this series.

[@CondemnedInformer]

Maybe we can get one on the NCR's corruption or the flaw's of the Brotherhood. That'd be cool.

[@tombrown9391]

Hey Austin, just wanted you to know that, having watched ShoddyCast since the first Fallout Lore video (and seeing the handover of the channel to you) you've proved once again that you were hands down the right person to take over. At every turn, your videos have stayed true to the original vibe of ShoddyCast, whilst evolving and expanding as all great channels should. You've always been honest to subscribers about how the channel, and more importantly your creative process and intentions for it, are going. To me, you've never failed us, you've never pushed videos out just to have another one out, and you've never been afraid to try out new videos or series that might not work out. I don't care if the next video takes 5 years or more - like this one, it will be well worth the wait. Thanks Austin :)

[@Glue_Eater06]

I homestly forgot you existed, glad to see you're still alive and that the channel isn't dead

[@Gotoku1]

He still post on game theory if you didn’t know, but yeah happy the channel not dead

[@maxregni9229]

Same

[@culturecritic1746]

Glad to see ShoddyCast back at it.

[@robertespinoza5958]

I gotta be honest I really like this style of video, I like Austin in general, don't get me wrong I like the old shoddycast to but I really like how esentric and methodical Austin is and he's a great narrator, great video hopefully you keep em coming

[@ShoddyCast]

I've really happy that people have (generally) been responding to some of my slower, more thoughtful delivery styles. That frenetic, hyper, ADHD type style is very much an authentic part of my personality--but this is a part that I've never felt like I could explore and express. Finding the space for it has been very lovely.

[@elic1356]

@@ShoddyCast You should definitely do this type of stuff more often. You're really good at it!

[@phallusmalgus5394]

@@ShoddyCast honestly, I am one of those people who clocked out of this channel when it was handed over to you. It wasn’t out of animosity or any strong emotion, but because I felt like the content would change in such a way I wasn’t interested in. That being said, this video is pretty solid evidence that I was wrong. It’s proof that you can skilfully offer new avenues of thought that both advance and respect the spirit of what ShoddyCast is about. In short, I know now why they handed it over to you, and I’m excited to see what you do next.

[@alexhogan1163]

Glad to see you back Austin. I accepted that this channel might end with how much of a toll everything was for you but nothing makes me happier than your content. No matter how long the gaps I'll be there for every upload.

[@thewanderingwastelander6814]

SHODDYCAST LIVES ONCE AGAIN

[@drachir7146]

I think too many look at the Legion with contemporary eyes whereas of we look at Fallout we see a world where without a strong overarching power small towns of meager supplies are the biggest things we see, otherwise it's chaos where people actively choose to become Raiders either to survive or to get their jollys off The Legion is the overarching power that is so strong that it's roads even with most of their forces focusing on the Dam, Raiders don't dare to attack in Legion territory whereas the NCR has such a limp grip on its territory that a group of Giant ants stops them from going North to Good Springs and Primm And as we hear from the very same Trader that tells us the Legion roads are safe tells us that NCR roads really aren't safe And if Ceasar's vision of a future Legion where it has taken on attributes of the NCR comes true then The Legion is truly the best option for the Mojave a possible Dicatorship that has intentions of protecting his society whilst avoiding the Old World problem of lack of fuel resources as the Legion doesn't use Electricity as far as we see in game Under the Legion's banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the Mojave Wasteland

[@nickpalmer3065]

ITS BACK! ITS BEEN SO LONG! I MISSED THIS CHANNEL!😁😁😁

[@tyleronmars4966]

Austin seriously seriously killed shoddycast congrats bro

[@KayWhyEllie1]

Omg it feels so good to see this channel upload a fallout lore video

[@SeismicWolf]

I was scared in how you would defend Caesar. I am so glad with the direction you took it

[@AmalekIsComing]

now that's rich

[@iamslightlybetterthanyou2679]

@@AmalekIsComing oh no someone has a different opinion of a fictional character!!!

[@mrbrightside8206]

I personally love how on this channel; Austin tries to advocate for almost every horrible villain in games. His answer to E.A is the simple truth, E.A is not able to be advocated for, irredeemable.

[@wiictvchannel1112]

E.A?

[@uria3679]

And people use the “So Hitler and Lucifer are worth defending but EA isn’t” excuse to defend companies like EA

[@jackmclean4120]

Yeah, cause E.A. exists.

[@vitraxgdanski1305]

>"I defend evil characters!" >Doesn't defend Caesar at all

[@Xavier-vt6uy]

SHODDYCAST!!! I'm so happy to see new uploads hope there is more on the way!!

[@poop-for-brains]

Genuinely surprised you didn't choose to engage with "it's Hegelian dialectics." Leaving Caesar's Legion as a vanity project that's bound to fracture isn't really enough for me. Like Caesar, Qin Shi Huang of the Qin empire was a brutal, domineering warlord who unified desperate groups through force and the philosophy of "legalism". Yet, when he met the inevitable (after drinking a shit load of mercury), the factions which temporarily broke up the unified warring states that Qin Shi Huang united, still coalesced into the Han Dynasty. An undisputed golden age for China. If we take Caesar's words seriously, and not just view him as a solipsistic dictator, his cruelty and sadism becomes an intentional ploy to 'over correct' and, in his view, be over corrected in turn upon his end.

[@jackagonis9302]

Then let’s hope the legion reforms into a worthy successor of the Roman Empire instead of being tyrannical nightmare.

[@TheSunderingSea]

Yes, that's the entire idea and Sallow stated it himself, that by conquering the NCR the Legion would transform from the Semi-Romanized Barbarians of Southern Gaul to a proper imperial state with a more sophistocated society and system of government. Also, The NCR in its best decades was effectively a Monarchy, today it is an Oligarchy, it's government structure shares far more with real life Mexican history than the golden days of the American Republic.

[@brutusthebear9050]

Agreed. Though I would compare it more to the fascist dictatorships of World War II. Not out of a "I don't like it so it must be fascist" mentality, but by pure philosophy. Germany and Italy were built on Kantian philosophies, just as the Legion is. Yes, Hegel is the primary influence in the case of Caesar, but Hegel himself fits into the "Kantian" camp of philosophy.

[@N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S.]

It never ceases to amaze me that Obsidian were able to put all of this together in 18 months. Caesar has such a rich and deep back story, the NCR and the Legion have so much rich and deep lore, Joshua Graham is one of the best characters in gaming, and all of that is just a sliver of what Obsidian were able to create when they created Fallout: New Vegas. Bethesda had twice as much time and just barely managed to fart out Fallout 76.

[@Avran67]

Yes, yes, yes! I’ve been wanting another episode for ages and it was well worth the wait. Glad to see another one of your videos!

[@kaylinhendrich4673]

Damn, Austin, I cannot express how much I love this kind of content! Well done!

[@CorundumDevil]

_[The ShoddyCast bell doth toll, looming upon high in the old song tower of the Sierra Madre village. And every subscriber shaketh in their burrows, for the ropes in the tower have long since rotted away...]_

[@ValerieGrahamKoop]

Your voice, whether bombastically excited or smoothly educating is one of my favorites on the platform. I am glad to listen to anything you feel interested in telling us about.

[@thelinuxcolonel7292]

Any time ShoddyCast is back in my KZbin feed, you know I'm watching it. Especially if it's a new Devil's Advocate! I'm always happy to see you upload to this channel.

[@thetalantonx]

I loved this character study. As someone who, when doing an evil playthrough, wishes there was more Caesar's Legion content to playthrough, I agree with your analysis.

[@TDenterpriser]

I don’t see the legion fracturing as being a real problem. I mean the Roman Empire literally had thousands of civil wars before it collapsed

[@PhoenixOfArcadia]

The difference is how long the Roman civilization existed before it's collapse. Rome stood for centuries before it's Easter and Western split into two different empires, and would continue to stand long after Julius Caesar was assassinated. It's identity was not tied to that of one of their leaders, but to their own civilization of Rome. Societies that were integrated into Rome while did have their identities shed away, became Roman over generations and eventually associated themselves as Roman. The Legion however existed for a couple decades before they began to clash with the NCR along the Colorado River. The Legion's identity is tied directly to Caesar, the primarily unifying force is their devotion to Caeser. The tribes the Legion conquered can still be remembered by the Legionaries, even if their identities have been shed away and they are forbidden from discussing it. Once Caeser dies, that force that unifies them is gone. The tribal identities that were suppressed can potentially return, as we see with Ulysses.

[@jonnyg9865]

@@PhoenixOfArcadia Except Caesar tells you flat out that his ultimate goal is to settle the Legion, transforming it from a roving army of soldiers and slaves to a full-fledged empire. This apparently begins when he takes Vegas. Once he takes Vegas, the focus begins to shift off of him and onto the idea of Rome itself. If that succeeds, Caesar's Legion has the potential to outlast them all.

[@jazolf4340]

Highly upset with KZbin for not letting me know this was out. Glad your back dude

[@drydenhillvibes2263]

So happy you are continuing Devil's Advocate. This is my favorite show of yours, thank you for what you do!

[@Bigkingmonster408]

LOL the "Diversity is strength" is strong with this one.

[@Riboflav1n]

What does that mean?

[@NoNo-xh7ru]

No, seriously, what the hell are you talking about

[@RTDelete]

I hope we get more defenses of villains on this show, it's really what makes it unique

[@nathanmarcano3171]

To me, the most important group in any narrative is the villain. No matter how well written the heroes are, if their adversary is written poorly, then the story looses a lot of steam.

[@papafoundry5537]

Caesar isn't the villain though

[@shoelessbandit1581]

@@papafoundry5537 how am I not surprised that an anime pfp would say that?

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

@@shoelessbandit1581 incel moment lmao, typical anime pfp

[@lamlelamatsiliza8550]

​@@nathanmarcano3171Good point since the only motivation a hero has in a story is to conquer over the villain.

[@kademartinez3698]

These analyses are always my favorite! So good to see you back in business and I'm happy to wait since you always make the content quality worth it

[@tylerasuncion3208]

I just now came back to Shoddycast, and if this is the direction you’re planning on taking the channel’s content, needless to say I’m excited. Excellent work Austin, absolutely love it.

[@skythesuperintendent897]

When analyzing the complexity of fallout villains... i feel its always important to note what they allow the player to do. Caesar lets the player cloud his judgement... meaning that over time, (if you allow yourself to think about post game actions) you can justify supporting the legion by saying your character would slowly influence them into being more progressive... as in becoming anti slavery and what not. Its a bit of a stretch. But caeser allows this by his very nature and interactions with the player. Pretty neat how nuanced and unclear everything is

[@KalashVodka175]

Its to my understanding that the reason Caesar appears so merciful and open to the Courier he that he sees a worthy successor there.

[@skythesuperintendent897]

@@KalashVodka175 right. And if you play by your own morales, it means that your courier may not end up as bad as caeser and acctually make the legion a better place for all.

[@Vanquish.0909]

AUSTIN'S BACK!!!! AND WITH FALLOUT!!! AHHHHHHHHH

[@batboyinc]

You know what sucks? The length of time between videos. You know what is awesome? The quality and thought that you put into the videos. It makes the wait worth it. It shows you care and this is not just a pastime for you. Another amazing video! Thank you for continuing to eloquently talk about a series that is near and dear to my heart.

[@sacralige]

Love to see you return and with such a great video aswell! Absolutely grand. Can't wait to see more and hope you keep finding such enjoyment in making these. It really shines through how much you liked making this and it makes watching it that much greater.

[@adrianiacob2004]

I like this series so much

[@lancelancer8313]

The problem with looking at Caesar from our world’s lense and not the fallout one is that you miss the whole point of the faction - additionally, the Legion as we see it in New Vegas isn’t what Sallow has in mind for what he wants it to be; the Legion is in a transitionary period until Caesar conquers the west, or at least New Vegas. It’s a Legion without a Rome, and Vegas is intended to be that Rome, which is something that he explicitly states. I feel like you really missed the mark on this one. I seriously advise you watch yaboiii’s video on this topic, he raises very good points.

[@ohauss]

The problem with your argument is that that notion of "transition" is facile. It doesn't work. Sallow has a lot of things on his mind that are really rather hare-brained and stem from his complete lack of actually understanding the developments around his historical namesake and ancient Rome. You cannot set up a society on the concept of fighting and "might makes right" and then simply tell all those fighters from one day to the next "Ok, now settle down, stop fighting"

[@boxcar9407]

I know you probably hear this a lot but your video about your mental state really ment a lot to me somehow. It was so relatable and raw it made me feel like I wasn't crazy for how my headspace was. It is amazing to see you back and feeling well enought to produce something you care about. Much love. (As much as a random internet stranger can give)

[@CombatContent1O1]

I haven't watched you in years, you're still as unique and as always and I'm glad I found your channel again thank you

[@gramdarnell2881]

I joined the legion in one of my playthroughs to experience it and man I definitely felt like was doing wrong or evil things it was crazy

[@sevenproxies4255]

I would argue that the Enclave are far worse than Caesar. Yes, Caesar is brutal and he destroys societies and cultures. But at the same time, he's kind of a Negan character from The Walking Dead. When he views humans as a resource. He will kill and maim a lot of people, but it is always for the purpose of teaching the survivors a lesson and to submit to his rule. The Enclave on the other hand have been hellbent on actual genocide, several times. They don't care about the "impure" humans abilities, usefulness or abilities to contribute in the creation of a larger society. They'll just murder you, your family and your entire society solely because they might consider one of your chromosomes to be corrupt by radioactive fallout. Such ambitions of wholesale genocide is far worse than what Caesars Legion does, in my book. That's not to say I endorse Caesars methods, but solely for the purpose of determining which faction is more evil, The Enclave definitely sits at the top, with Caesar being a close second.

[@ShoddyCast]

I definitely see that argument, and don't even really disagree wit you. My stance is that given that Caesar was more successful, more capable, and more intelligent, that he overall caused more harm. The Enclave was more of an ambition to be harmful, whereas I think it can be said pretty easily that Caesar caused more measurable damage to people.

[@sevenproxies4255]

@@ShoddyCast Wow! Thanks for the reply! 😁 It's a fair point. I guess it can be argued that more evil but FAILED goals cause less harm than slightly less evil but successful results. I guess what makes the issue more of a big knot to untangle is the whole nature of the wasteland as depicted in Fallout. In the sense that brutality may be a necessity to bring some kind of order and stability to a really chaotic situation. Consider the NCR and their actions towards the Khans for example. The NCR might be a liberal republic, but they too are guilty of brutality and slaughter because they deemed it necessary for their goals at the time. We who live in relatively stable and prosperous societies will have difficulties in trying to view the situation the same way as people like Caesar would. And with this in mind, I find it very difficult to see how the Enclaves goals could ever be "necessary". I mean, the Enclave did interact with the "impure" population on several occasions, so they would know that these people are... Well "people", despite being slightly contaminated by nuclear fallout.

[@kauswekazilimani3736]

Not to mention The Enclaves view on who should be considered human is so narrow. A majority of the wasteland is a candidate for extermination.

[@sevenproxies4255]

@@kauswekazilimani3736 Yes, that's really the point i'd like to stress. In the eyes of the Enclave, hardly any humans living in the wasteland would be considered "human". They seek to use a biological weapon to exterminate every human on the continent, except maybe for the tiny fraction who have survived inside the Vault Tec Vaults for generations and haven't intermingled with wastelanders. So the Enclave doesn't care about who you are, what your motives are or what your skills are. They'll kill you all the same unless you weren't born as one of them. Whereas Caesar ideally wants to put you to good use for his budding Empire and at worst he might kill you for resisting in order to make an example. Again, I don't condone his methods. But to me it's more evil to just slaughter people regardless of whether they could be persuaded to help you or not, than to using brutal methods to "conscript" you.

[@kauswekazilimani3736]

@@sevenproxies4255 Indeed I don't condone Ceasers actions either. Its just the more think about The Enclave ideal America, the more it sounds like a Lovecraftian threat to the wastelanders 😂

[@uhjn]

lovely to see more devils' advocate. your defense of doom's demons is legit one of my favorite vids on the whole site and im glad to see more from ya austin

[@decertatio]

im really happy to see you return with a study on one of my favourite villains in fallout! hope to see more!!

[@Motoboo_Marine]

The brilliant thing about Caesar and New Vegas isn't necessarily that the game tries to paint his actions in a good light; it lets each character offer their own justifications for their actions. It's not about trying to make the player sympathetic towards a character that does evil; it's about letting the character be heard out, no matter how reprehensible, and letting the player make their own decision. Caesar is indeed evil, but he has depth and reasons for his actions beyond the simple "I'm an evil dick lmao". The point of New Vegas, and arguably one of its best qualities (though it could've been done better if the devs had more time), is that there is no primary antagonist. There are simply characters, factions, and you. Even Benny, who shoots you in the head at the beginning of the game, can have a much greater significant part in the story or none whatsoever. The player, not the game, decides what kind of story will be told. Very few games give you that level of freedom, which is why it has such a cult following.

[@dvorsky78]

This would be a great video for a Fallout Lore series. But it does not feel good for the Devils' Advocate as there was no advocate at all.

[@MrPuddle01]

Ive been waiting for more fallout videos. thank you!

[@cowboycave5071]

Glad this is still running. You've done great. Keep it up man!

[@kalechips4564]

Excellent, Excellent video! Perfectly describes how Cesar is indefensible. Going through his generational slavery and misogyny. The cult of personality that dies with him is the ultimate nail in the coffin. While there is no obvious parallel in The Legion as to the real world struggle of power between Mark Antony, Octavian, and Lepidus, it would be fun for future games to go into the power struggle facing the legion after Cesar’s death. I’m kind of glad that Obsidian chose to make The Legion as awful as it is, because it’s an immediate red flag if someone genuinely supports them. Given that, I wonder what could have been if instead of generational slavery and misogyny The Legion instead had indentured servitude of conquered people and a group of cultist warrior women. I think that would have been reason to defend Cesar a bit more

[@slayazes3925]

Caesar (apart from not wanting women fighting) doesn't really show any signs of being sexist to women. Hell if a female Courier helps him take Hoover Dam then her face is being printed on a denomination of their currency in place of his own. He also relies on the priestesses of Mars to indoctrinate children into the cult of Mars.

[@darthjekyll3648]

only tribal people who don't till are in the legion, the people who have farms and proper townships are just subjects. all bad animals and dangers are killed off. so you believe what you believe, others believe what they do. and we live in peace. hopefully. unless you become the big bad.

[@diabeticjesus87]

The name of the series is Devil's Advocate, but if you're not going to advocate for the aformentioned devil, what's the point? I'm not saying I won't watch every video and have a great time doing it, but I was really looking forward to seeing my favorite evil entities in a new sympathetic light. If you could make me feel bad about commiting demonic genocide to the beat of kickass heavy metal music, wtf is next? But you do you, I'll enjoy it either way. I'm really happy this series isn't dead.

[@D_Jester]

Agreed. This whole video felt like it boiled down to "This person is bad, and everything they do is bad, but here's their sad backstory". I still enjoyed the video but it was missing the a 'from their viewpoint, the bad they do is for done for good reasons', which one expects from a Devil's Advocate.

[@andreivoinschii5163]

Fully agree , like the statement that cultural differences are not the core problem of the wasteland , which actually is the main reason of all of the conflicts we see different “cultures” or “groups” the BoS is fighting NCR , Institute is fighting the commonwealth , Legion the NCR everyone are of different cultures and ideas that rises from ashes of the great war , which make sense of Caesar beliefs that conquered tribes should be obliterated from their cultures as before the legion they where busy with fighting with each other because of this differences

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

You people are delusional lol, you unironically want one of the most devil-esque people who actively damned half the population to the same oppression that our male ancestors put them through all over again to be advocated for? Sorry, but he IS one of the few who can’t be.

[@andreivoinschii5163]

@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 and who are you to decide who can and cannot be ? Do you have an army, do you have money or reputation to do any decisions that will be followed ? It is not about how it should be, it is about how it is and who IS doing that. We can always think on how it can be, but the reality is that we need to deal with the misery of reality first.

[@elic1356]

This is an incredible video! I am glad you're back, Austin.

[@ns0557212]

When I just heard "that voice" come on It brought a nostalgic tear to my eye, I really just thought it was playing an old video as I was only listening! Welcome back!

[@notproblempal8343]

Today on devils advocate: I would like to claim that my client is literally the worst person not alive! Great video 10/10 good to see you back

[@TheSpicyLeg]

I think you missed some things about the Legion. For example, part of Sallo’s ideological beliefs were that the tribal warfare of Arizona, New Mexico, etc, were inhibiting peace. This is true to the Romans, who saw themselves as a pacifying and unifying force. They were civilizational. Where Caesar saw Gaul as personal prize and step to greatness, the Romans saw discord and anarchy making life for the Celtic tribes miserable. It’s hard to argue that Rome didn’t achieve a measure of civilization in Gaul and Britannia. Whereas later France and Britain would unify, the lands Rome didn’t subjugate like Germany remained fiefdoms for far longer. The Romans created standards that exist to today. Sallo saw himself doing the same, as evidenced by his dialogue. While certainly self-serving, brutal, and cruel, was the Legion better for the tribes it subsumed? The NCR was corrupt and oppressed its citizens (see Sharon, Boone) in a like way with a fig leaf of cover, a fact Sallo used to great effect. He’s an interesting character.

[@ProjectEkerTest33]

The NCR is imperfect and indeed very corrupt but opress?! As far as I know the only opression is how they "encourage" new settlements to join the Republic. Once they're citizens they get better human rights then they would in any other major faction

[@ohauss]

Sorry, but there's few Roman standards that exist today, and which "Rome" would that be, anyway? Incidentally, Caesar didn't see Gaul as a "personal prize and step to greatness", he precipitated war in Gaul not to face to music back in Rome for his debts and constitutional violations. Rome at the time had precious little interest in Gaul. In fact, many in the Roman political establishment were outraged at what Caesar was doing, dragging Rome into a war just to make himself indispensable. Your concept of unity in Britain is also rather strange. Could it be you confuse England with Britain? But even England only united centuries later, and by the hands of people who had precious little contact with Rome. And France was only briefly unified under the Franks before breaking apart again for centuries. And it seems your knowledge about Germany is pretty poor. Treves was once the most important Roman city outside Italy. Cologne was the birthplace of an Empress. And I think it's laughable to claim the NCR oppressed its citizens "in a like way".

[@TheSpicyLeg]

@@ohauss Interestingly, you’re using one to communicate now. I counted no less than 15 words of Latin derivation in your reply. If you’re going to be a smarmy asshole, don’t half ass it. Laziness is so off putting, buckwheat.

[@kanorcubes329]

@@ohauss u pay taxes

[@no-facejames7360]

Good to have you back Austin, I'm at work at the moment, but I'll watch this in full as soon as I'm off the clock.

[@theoneduckson2312]

Austin, I wish I could explain this well enough, you're doing great. you're a fantastic person. Keep it up :)

[@bigmoe9856]

I'm glad that you're back, but, I can't completely agree that Caesar is the most evil character in the franchise. Rather he's just a man of the wasteland doing as a wastelander can, a product of his environment like liquid matching the shape of its container.

[@KalashVodka175]

Its not that he’s the most evil, arguably peoples like Cook Cook or others fiendish degenerates who rape and eat peopled not for any long term goal but but for their own selfish temporary pleasure takes the cake on that. Its that, or at least so does Austin make the claim, Caesar is the most destructive man in the wastes. He destroys the lives (either physically or psychologically) of everyone his armies encounters. The scale of Caesar’s destruction is massive, much more so than the petty raids of the fiend leaders whom I took as exemple of true evil.

[@bigmoe9856]

@@KalashVodka175Ah. Well then, I still disagree. As the saying goes: Everyone likes hot dogs but no one wants to know how they're made. Caesar conquers and adds tribes to his ranks because he's building an empire, an empire that may or may not last depending on how he handles the civil management, but it's kind of the way things work when you build an empire.

[@jazzknh1105]

So glad you didn't defend Edward Sallow. Genocide, slavery, and rampant misogyny carried out by Roman larpers isn't defensible, so I love the direction this video took. Glad to see you back!

[@SuperOops89]

Happy to see you back at it! Keep at it- I’ve always enjoyed your work.

[@hailcaesar2328]

Oh yeah, this is what we need. Glad to see Shoddycast back to doing what makes it great!

[@benjaminfinlay829]

"The measure of a man is what he does with power." - Plato I completely agree that Edward "Caesar" Sallow is a horrible human being. What he did with the power he gained is _telling._ Equally telling is his lack of plans for his death. He never bothered to designate a successor - a _critical_ concern in an environment as dangerous as the Wasteland - or even begin a serious search for one. Not even once he realized he had cancer/was sick. The Legion was never about _stability,_ or about _preventing war,_ or whatever justifications. It was always - from the very beginning, at a fundamental level - all about _him,_ and his selfish desires. First, for survival (for which he needed the Black Bloods, so he gave them what they needed... but also made them _dependent_ on him), then... for _more power._ Oh, he rationalised it for his followers - and almost certainly for himself, too; very, _very_ few ever view themselves as the villain, the vast majority of them outright insane - but in reality? Caesar was an intelligent, _dangerously_ charismatic... and _deeply selfish_ man.

[@mikitz]

No to forget that he lacked a father figure, which in part explains some of his actions.

[@A_B_1917]

This was really dissapointing. It's pretty much opposite of being "Devil's Advocate". No mention of good sides of the legion, like how it is mentioned numerous times their territory is safer than NCR. And it has pretty bad simplifications. "NCR doesn't have slavery, so it's not necessary", no, that is bad argument, USA already has inequalities in modern day between States, Legion's area may just be a lot more fucked up than NCR's and require different solutions. It is a historical fact that for some stages of human civilization's development slavery was pretty much a norm, so if civilization was sufficiently fucked back in it's development, it's unfortunate return is quite likely. Furthermore, it has to be noted that USA had slavery, it abolished it, while staying USA. Legion could abolish it later too without necessarily falling. And if I understand it right, not every conquered territory becomes part of Legion (army), so propably 50% of every population doesn't get turned into slaves. At the very least we know that traders can be free to trade, as we meet one in the Camp. Saying all that, Legion is still fucked up and arguably the worst pick in New Vegas (but the fact that it actually may fall is to it's advantage when compared to some alternatives, House and Yes Man could end in true totalitarian dystopias), but this is what actually being "Devil's Advocate" should do. Actually look at the good sides, and nuances that can explain the bad sides (if not justify them), not just say "Devil Bad".

[@compupsych3897]

Glad to have you back ShoddyCast!

[@The_Horse-leafs_Cabbage]

This is probably one of your best vids yet

[@mr.fantastic7756]

You didn't defend or "advocate" anything, I'm disappointed with this video and the direction your taking this series Defeats the whole purpose of this series, you just regurgitatied knowledge readily available by so many other channels who actually covered this more in depth who ALSO did give JUSTIFICATION for Caesar and spelled out the Nuances you talk alot about but never went into Instead you just went "Slavery Bad" and called it a day, not even getting into the Good things said about the Legion from even those outside of it

[@futurewario9591]

Caesar did nothing wrong.

[@shadowmasterking6542]

enclave did nothing wrong

[@CarlXVIGustafBernadotte420]

Todd Howard did nothing wrong

[@futurewario9591]

The only thing Todd Howard ever did wrong was Fallout 76 🤣.

[@mrdrprof8402]

Heck yes! You obviously have a great delivery for lore and a great approach to scripting. Glad to see you're still at it

[@HollyYoung031]

Great work bro. Thank you for the detail you put into this, a video about someone who I think is one of the most interesting characters in the Fallout Lore thus far. I just stumbled across you today because you came up in my recommendations. Definitely going to binge your videos, you sound great, articulate and passionate. Keep up the amazing work!

[@Drebin-8427]

Caesar = Based, NCR = Cringe

[@CarlXVIGustafBernadotte420]

Caesar's legion is as based as the taliban

[@HeWhoComments]

Bro I was literally thinking about you the other day, and I’ve been replaying New Vegas. Funny how life works!

[@MaestroKaestro]

I love that your back and I hope this means your feeling better nowadays. Thankyou for the vid, missed your videos

[@kermitwithashotgun4887]

I never really got into your fallout lore vids, but with you coming back. I guess I gotta watch them now

[@Rodclutcher]

Dude this JUST popped up on my home page. Great job my man!

[@cianmannion1752]

Welcome back Shoddy glad to see content from you again

[@unsat9300]

Top notch video. Missed this a ton and very glad you are back!

[@hazzawilliams2956]

Welcome back shoddycast 😊 its very good to see your videos in my sub feed again

[@lindsay8320]

Beautiful! Very happy to see videos again!!

[@emkato21]

Oh my God. Seeing this pop up made me so so happy. Miss your fallout vids!

[@AzraeI999]

Glad that you’re back and doing better. Shoddycast will always be one of the greats.

[@communistbird7451]

Great video! really liked the editing and the way you told the story. 10/10

[@redtukeguy4263]

What a pleasant surprise to see a new ShoddyCast video! A video on Fallout NV no less! Happy day.

[@jacobbunea3131]

This guys fallout videos were my childhood. I’ll always watch my dude, love this video so much

[@baconfork9674]

This was really quality. I really enjoyed this a lot. You did a great job. Thanks for this.

[@Enriki810]

Thank you so much for coming back!!!

[@therealgorg]

Awesome, glad you are back at it.

[@Iteisenhauer]

had this start playing in a autoplay. i heard the voice and thought this was a older video. my joy to see it just came out :D. thanks for it and good luck with whatever you do!!!!

[@btoneplaya1]

I swear I didn't have to change my pants at the first grace of your voice. For real though, I haven't even finished the video yet, and I am SO HAPPY to hear from you again! I hope you are doing well, hope the little one and your family is well, and hope the face wound that totally didn't happen, has healed well! Much love to you all and SO MUCH love to your work. The cinemotography for this video is BEYOND stellar! I hope you can feel my excitement for you and for Shoddycast! I have a bunch of playlists to sleep to, thanks to the work you all have put in over the years!

[@neckermangames5872]

Great video Austin! I'm glad to see you making videos again and (hopefully) enjoying it too! I can't wait for the next Devil's Advocate (or whatever other video you have planned). Though I do hope we won't have to wait another 6 months or so, I will understand if it takes a while and I don't mind.

[@Fen_Wolf]

Glad to see you posting again Austin great video so far I think you’ve been doing really well with this new series and I can’t wait to see where you take it next