Is The New M5 A True "M Car"? [S7, E6]

This week Tony and I discuss:
0:00 - Intro
0:22 - Verstappen vs Norris - F1
10:22 - BMW Launches the New M5
14:58 - Ferrari 488 vs the 458
21:36 - Back to the M5
27:48 - The New Bentley Continental GT
32:14 - VW’s Updated Golf R
34:32 - The Aston Martin Valiant
39:30 - Goodwood & BTG Tour Updates
42:45 - Plans For The Week Ahead!
54:53 - Outro
You can also listen to Behind The Glass here;
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apple.co/2HUpzS6
You can follow Tony here;
/ tonygravelwoodcarsales
www.gravelwood.co.uk/
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Thanks for watching. If you enjoy Behind The Glass you may also enjoy my main channel, SeenThroughGlass, or similar channels like LTACY Salomondrin, Shmee150, Supercars Of London, MrJWW, Seb Delanney and Motor Trend.

[@pugrallye23]

Every time Tony says “broke” as the past tense of “brake”, God kills a kitten…

[@tedubadu2536]

Tony is a master of the English language. Price rangey is the one that gets me

[@borjastick]

@@tedubadu2536 He doesn't understand past tense.

[@ethan63477]

broke is the past tense of brake. what are you on about?

[@borjastick]

@@ethan63477 Or maybe it's braked

[@pugrallye23]

@@ethan63477 break/broke, brake/braked HTH

[@andrewhurstcars]

That M5 weighs more than most SUVs / 4x4s. It’s 950kg more than my 330i. It’s really an M7.

[@stephenlane9168]

Heavier than my Range Rover. 🙅🏻‍♂️

[@eugenux]

basically, it is not.

[@NewHandle_]

Without a good sound

[@MM-xr6tz]

950kg is like having an T50 stuck on top of a 330i. Bonkers.

[@CITRUS--]

It’s also an Objectively worse looking car than the F90. Don’t know how Sam thinks it looks “Amazing”

[@ScottZ370]

BMW M need to rebrand to BMW XXL

[@vinceliu4138]

I think the reason why people lean towards the 458 is because everyone remembers the piece Top Gear made when it was first launched and all the other road trips they did comparing the Ferrari so in a way...the 458 became legendary status right off the bat

[@pereldh5741]

458 styling is original, coherent and clean aswell.

[@rahulsudhir666]

​@@pereldh5741Absolutely! I agree with the original comment as well. Another key factor is that the 458 was likely the first car from Ferrari that you could jus take anywhere you want without fear of it breaking down, though most of these issues were almost ironed out with the F430. You could comfortably put 50k miles on it without worrying too much about whether the car would remain trouble free. Then you have the sound, which is a huge factor for me. That glorious glorious sound!! When comparing stock cars, the 488 just doesn't come anywhere close to the 458. Add aftermarket exhausts n the 458 is just on another level altogether, let alone a 458 Speciale. Besides, I'm no race car driver n so I am well aware that I won't be able to use all the power n drive n extract 10/10ths of a 458, so it doesn't make a difference to me that the 488 makes more power. I'm also someone who likes toying with my vehicles n I'd probably even get the 458 converted to a manual. If it were a situation where I can't have a 458 n the 488 platform is the only choice, I'd go for a F8 Tributo. I prefer the F8's styling over that of the 488. It's basically a slightly toned down 488 Pista n most likely a rarer car than the standard 488 or even the much more expensive "limited edition" 488 Pista. I'd get the F8, slap on a couple of Novitec performance parts n their lowerin kit n get a set of deep dish BBS Super RS wheels n make it my own.

[@jafooli]

458 was the last of great sounding high revving V8s. 488 is the start of muted lower revving V8s. I think that's why the 458 is more well regarded.

[@Natak222]

26:00 -- Really dislike when podcasters do this. Either say the full story or don't mention it at all. I understand Sam wanting to protect his relationships but Tony, your entire schtick is being honest

[@SH7SH7SH7]

💯

[@CITRUS--]

I must say tho, I’m just glad it happened. Sam and Tony love to come on every week after doing 50% research on the cars they are about to discuss. Then they genuinely spread misinformation and then laugh about it. But then when it comes to people differing from their opinions, like the 458vs488 thing, they get all serious and tell people they are wrong. I’m glad the lying has caught up to them in some way.

[@SuchSupercars]

@@CITRUS-- it's not a politics podcast mate, all their own opinions on cars. No one dies, no need to cry.

[@zn9861]

For me the new M5 is more like a M7.

[@jafooli]

On the 458 vs 488 thing. A screaming naturally aspirated engine is the same reason these guys have a GT3 over a Turbo S. So I don't understand their point. Seems like for most people, sound and emotion out weighs raw performance for a road car.

[@nigel.w]

Sam and Tony aren't most people. They both privilege performance. Also, demonstrably they both favour the sound of cross-plane V8 turbos, so they're not typical Ferraristi. But the fact is despite the 488's masive increase in power and torque, there's very little difference in on-paper performance. However, the 458 is quite twitchy, whereas the 488 is much more stable. Looks are obviously subjective. Interior tech is somewhat improved in the 488 but the interiors aren't much different. Going forward, the 488's turbo engine is bound to be more highly strung and surely destined to have turbo issues as it ages, and early examples are quickly heading for 10yo.

[@jacopoi7047]

Nah the gt3 vs turbo comparison only stands because of n/a vs forced induction. Other than that they are completely different set ups and purposes with the gt3 being much more track focused and pure driving experience while the turbo s is a super sport gt car, and this is due to their set ups not engines. See the gt2rs.

[@Joshua-fx3tl]

Also as they said it's their...opinion...so🤷🏾‍♂️

[@MarkB4444]

Car weight and size has been getting out of hand for a few years now - you wonder where it ends…

[@septopus3516]

You should see my wife... Never ends....

[@MarkB4444]

@@septopus3516 I feel you bro 😢

[@andrewhurstcars]

Due to the road limit for passenger cars of 3,500kg, it means that effectively cars cannot exceed 3,000kg to allow room for 5 passengers & luggage. Hybrid Range Rover is already there.

[@AbsolutionDF]

Weight, size and cost!

[@kevin6666123]

well tbf it's been going on for decades...seemingly the car buyer is a pretty simple thing when it comes to what they want...it must be a bit bigger, a bit faster and (more recently a bit more 'save the planet' i.e. shunt all the CO2 into the manufacturing) than the previous model.....Where will it end?...high end super saloons etc will become fully electric and probably weigh 3 tons to have a 600+ mile range.

[@junichirokato896]

Bet the phone call was from Porsche about the false information about the hybrid tech in 992.2 being for performance. That is obviously not true. It is because of emissions. If Porsche had wanted more performance, they could have kept the old engine and up the software.

[@ReeceT20]

Jeremy Clarkson once said before the F10 M5 release that he knew it would be fantastic before driving it , because there had never been a bad one. I don't think that will be true soon

[@MRVSKIN]

Give me the previous M5 CS over the new M5 all the time every day.

[@pereldh5741]

The problem most of us have with the 488 is that 458 looks, say, 300% better.

[@cyuiyuwyguiyui8540]

No it dont.

[@JStryker7]

Agreed. The only 488 that looks better is the Pista

[@eugenux]

at least 300%; pininfarina vs a design college student..-ish; truly, the 488 is the ugliest mid engine ferrari in the last 30, maybe even 40 years.

[@patrickbateman7122]

Hello one and all!!! M5 looks good!? Think you need to get down vision express Sam

[@vinceliu4138]

Great episode guys, keep it up 👍

[@alastairhatt360]

Tony looks a bit like Eddie Jordan 😂

[@sp3ckedout224]

The thing about Sam is he doesn’t understand BMW M purists and what BMWs blood is. You can’t sit there and like it and expect people to take you seriously. It weighs almost 2.5 tonnes! That is not an M car in any sense. You can add all the power you want but if it’s heavy than most SUVs it doesn’t matter

[@nigel.w]

Sam just doesn't understand much.

[@T997S]

I 100% agree with the 488 over the 458. After driving the two the 488 is so much more car. The exhaust on the 458 is a bit annoying tbh.

[@simonsauter3229]

The Ferrari I would would have over both the 488 or 458 is the F12. It’s the best in terms of looks and sound for around the same price as the 488.

[@femiomomo4467]

There is currently over 100 488,s for sale on Autotrader which is more than any other Ferrari model. Just a thought 😊

[@eugenux]

probably that's why ferrari uk asked kindly to have a cheerful review for the 488; they didn't like the way in which the 488 is going and they are trying to lift it back; hopefully, the market is mature enough to see right through it.

[@taylo2079]

Been looking at F90 M5 listings since the new one got announced and they are disappearing pretty quickly I’ve noticed, think a lot of people (myself included) would rather have the previous one, and why not? It’s insane that the new one weighs half a tonne more, not to mention it’s ugly as sin and the interior is an eyesore.

[@bigdavelad]

I'd go a generation older and get an F10

[@mikemitch1041]

@@bigdavelad. I have a F10 M5 great car does everything really well

[@bigdavelad]

@@mikemitch1041 I can imagine! Has it brought you any big bills? Potentially interested in one in the future 🤔

[@mikemitch1041]

Purchased a one owner car on 30k miles had it 2 years have it serviced regularly at local main dealer and that’s been it totally standard which I think helps that’s for sure

[@CITRUS--]

I’m shocked at how much of a shill Sam is, he is someone who considers the alfa C8 a beautiful car, then he has the audacity to call this new M5 “Amazing” looking. He thinks the M2, pig nose M4 and this M5 look good. It’s insane how much he’ll shill for brands he likes

[@snowlover71]

I love that 750S looks similar to 720S. Because it’s sad when brands prematurely trash their great designs for the sake of change (e.g. BMW).

[@damo514]

I’m so sad that I am now becoming more interested new sport suv. There is no point in buying any of these new sport cars when they weigh as much as an SUV.

[@stran-air-jordan]

The US Porsche configurator still has the prices. I built that same GT3RS and it was $304k as specced, $241k base price.

[@loyisokhumalo1803]

Omg I've been waiting for this. I've really wanted to hear your opinion on the m5

[@callamrain4372]

I’ll be signing up next year for the tour in my gr Yaris if it continues!

[@chiller1017]

The porsche configurator does give you the price after speccing it up- Tony's spec came to around £240k...so around 60k less than the secondary market of an equivalent car. The Weissach pack costs £30k so is a huge option.

[@aq1725]

"1200 kilos without an engine" 😂😂😂😂

[@WilliamStevens007]

Prices are on there for the GT3RS £224,297 with I think the options you said.

[@Nord_Mann]

Yes! You made my day lying home sick❤

[@MarkB4444]

@@Nord_Mann herpes too? Stay strong bro 💪

[@atilaszlo8288]

The simple fact is the majority prefer the 458, just because. Personal preferences, in the same way some of us, prefer, let me think…a 20 year old 360, or 360 CS over a 458

[@ilikeheadcrabs]

Configurator worked for me, came out at £234,538 for that spec

[@wildes2025]

52:10 For the record, here in the US I can still see Porsche spec prices for the GT3RS and their other products on the configurator

[@jamespettitt9213]

Got to be the ring for the 3 vs 3 rs challenge, 😂.

[@tomandtinamatthews6866]

The 488 not only had turbo issues but severe oil leak issues right off the truck. Some dealers didn't care to address the severity but the better dealers forced the issue to have the oil leaks taken care of before the cars were delivered to their clients.

[@JStryker7]

And the 458 has the 7DCL750 transmission which has to be rebuilt all the time due to the main shaft seal leak and speed sensor failures. I’d still take the 458 though

[@Arashekhoeur]

"M" as...? 1.Massive 2.Mammoth 3.Monstrous 4.Megaphat

[@mikemitch1041]

The new M5 doesn’t need all that hybrid shite , the old M5 recipe worked why mess with it

[@nigel.w]

Emissions.

[@WilliamStevens007]

Love the new Continental GT, That just looks stunning.

[@ibrahimarshad2963]

I remember Sam mentioning about Zac Brown coming in a 288 GTO to the McLaren Factory. His video with Tom Hartley Jnr is pretty interesting to watch!

[@brianiswrong]

31:20 " fill the space tony" 😊

[@SoLudde]

Super heavy, muted sound, little engagement... Might as well get an EV at this point.. given that you live in a country with decent charging infrastructure.

[@callummccubbing4506]

I don't know, i don't like the way the CS sounds. It's similar to the way the Speciale sounds it just makes noise and barks. Standard 360 sings.

[@soundhub2852]

I agree with Tony and Sam re the 458 vs 488 debate having had both. ( incidentally both cars had all the carbon and the race seats.) IMO the 488 is a much better car in every way.

[@jamespugh]

M5 going way heavy of a car more must suvs . Add hybrid is cool . Crazy to see Bentley Gt going hybrid 😮. Like see Goodwood content from you guys.

[@hughmcneillie1032]

I took a 2022 Vantage on a track day and felt totally underwhelmed by the artificial piped in noise. Made me appreciate my XKR 4.2 V8 with no fake soundtrack. I will never buy a post 2017 car for that reason.

[@richardcook2674]

Such a bad habit to grab the phone when you don't have the answer...let it go Sam...Tony doesn't do it...its very post 2000...!! x.

[@MM-xr6tz]

458 or 488, i'd be happy with either.

[@kieranscrutton6037]

The Porsche website worked for me just now speccing an RS guys, must have just been a glitch

[@jefruscione6214]

Own a hybrid X5, a 45e...was stoked to replace it with an M5 Touring...styling on the sedan is a B/B-, cost is ridiculous, weight is absurd and performance is compromised...so, I purchased a Toyota Land Cruiser

[@WilliamStevens007]

488 pista surely has to be potentally one of the greats, Doesn't it??

[@georgemode3694]

in the US Porsche 911 GT3 RS load the same way Tony wanted cost $306,455.

[@BenB91]

Sam, is your panamera a 6 cylinder? Not 8 as Tony mentioned a few times.

[@nigel.w]

It's a 6.

[@gingerjax]

Price is still there on gt3rs but u prbly on global site so it didnt give u amount but i aprx specced like you did and was just over 238k

[@steerj07]

Before watching it all I'll say nope it's not a true M car. Now I shall watch.

[@s94p]

F8 Tributo is the ultimate for me. The 458 hype is falling off more each day.

[@JStryker7]

The biggest issue with the 458 is that trash transmission

[@danofficial117]

£130k for an m5 don’t sit right with me

[@kevincoombs7348]

Take your two 911' to Castle Combe Circuit, fast enough, and only 100 miles max from London.

[@christaylor4946]

Just did a GT3 RS config and came out 238-239k, showing prices ok?

[@benpenagonzales6014]

Did one of those super car days and a 458 back to back with a 570S. The turbocharged 570 was steps ahead and the 458 didn’t sound that great. And the 458 was my dream car.

[@oneeleven9832]

Not driven a 458 but got a 570gt & it’s mega 👍

[@benpenagonzales6014]

@@oneeleven9832 we’ve got an suv, and a hot hatch for a ‘manual ragger’ so a 570GT or even the actual GT would suit me a treat! Currently got a 996 auto for my toy and yet to convince the wife that we need 70k on finance… can you fit a small set of golf clubs in it?

[@nigel.w]

1. There's hardly any difference in performance between the 458 and 488, despite the 488's massive increase in power and torque. 2. In comparisons between the 488 and 570S, the 488 is much faster, not least because the 570 is down on power and has significant turbo lag.

[@nigel.w]

458 Itaia vs 488 GTB: -- Looks are obviously subjective. Interiors are quite similar. -- The 488's turbo engine sound is more subdued and bassier. For Ferraristi, the 458 sounds more like a Ferrari should. That doesn't mean it is the pinnacle of Ferrari V8 sound! It's a demonsrable fact that both Tony and Sam favour the sound of cross-plane V8 turbos. While the 488's engine is flat-plane, it sounds closer to a cross-plane turbo than a n-a flat-plane V8. -- The 458 is more twitchy, whereas the 488 is much more stable on the road. -- Surprisingly, there's not much difference in performance. Both circa +-6s 0-100mph. 0-120mph is exactly the same at 8.9s. Similar top speed. That's despite the 488's massive increase in power and torque! -- The 488's turbo engine is bound to be more highly strung and surely destined to have turbo issues as it ages, and early examples are quickly heading for 10yo.

[@oneeleven9832]

You could have 3 of the original Lotus Elises compared to the new M5 in weight 🤷‍♂️

[@markcooper770]

Didn't Senna say something like, "if there's a gap and you don't go for it, you're not a racer"". Personal view: too much whining and complaining to the Stewards.

[@veemacks7255]

You should know better Tony. It's the VW Group, not the VW-Audi (or Audi-VW) group.

[@doug3011]

Lando's moves where carbon copies of the moves Max used to make in 20/21. the worst one was one before last. when land was ahead at the apex, max accelerated off the track to come alongside Lando then to claim over the radio that Lando drove him off the circuit.. anyway.. lets hope for more of the same this weekend. Lando is future world champ for sure.

[@JJ-vy2rh]

My friends son took their v10 Bathurst

[@PeterKirton-nu9iv]

Your second tour is still expensive hence the nice cars

[@danofficial117]

Leclerc more race craft than max 😂 I thought Tony knew his stuff

[@kimdahyunnie]

thoughts on lance stroll?

[@callamrain4372]

Does any behind the glass fans have any automotive podcast recommendations? I only listen to this and spikes car radio. Now that collecting cars is gone, I could do with 1 or 2 more regulars to listen too

[@p.h.234]

Smoking Tire, Car Chat, Drive Torque, Fuelling Around (seasonal), Smith and Sniff, The Intercooler, 9werks (Porsche) and for F1 you've got Bring Back V10s, F1 Explained (rip), Beyond The Grid, F1 Nation.

[@callamrain4372]

@@p.h.234 thanks for that, I do listen to smoking tire actually and used to listen to 9werks! I’ll get caught up, I get plenty time to listen on nightshift lol

[@MarcSob22]

I take the 488 any day over the 458, and a prefer Turbo sound! And the Pista is the best supercar , the most fun , most crazy in the last decades if you drive on the limit

[@-LK34-]

Crazy. 458 N/A engine is so much better sounding

[@innerhammer]

@@-LK34- To me Ferrari V8 turbo just sounds as if someone is gargling, but some people love to hear gargling I guess.

[@Arman-nl6mg]

@@innerhammer💀💀💀

[@nigel.w]

You "prefer Turbo sound!" No problem, but a Ferrarista does not prefer Turbo sound!

[@CodysGTO]

Yes yes please!

[@timw5k]

Sam, instead of constantly leaning forwards and away from the mic, just get the laptop and put it on your lap. It's called a laptop for a reason lol.

[@alekspen]

The 488 is the first supercar I have ever driven, and it remains my favourite car and dream to own too this day. Above all other supercar/hypercar

[@lama6736]

5500lbs!!!!!!

[@ThrottleBody]

Not really bothered about the m5 weight tbh. It’s a big car. As long and wide as a Range Rover…what do you expect? It’s not like it’s a csl is it

[@jasperstekelenburg]

BMW should rename themsleves to BBW

[@krystianosowski76]

Why has sam got pink shoes

[@BACK2PORT]

5 months from now....ive bought a M5, girly scream and weird noises. This guy is so weird 😂

[@JStryker7]

I genuinely don’t care that the 488 is a better car. I like the 458 more. It’s an awful car for maintenance and is much worse quality, but I really don’t care

[@ric355]

Max was merely using weasel words to get around what he had done. The general idea is you don't move in the "braking zone". His argument therefore was that he didn't move in the braking zone because when he moved he wasn't braking. This is just total crap. The real point of the rule is that when you are racing someone you must pick a line and stick to it on corner entry. And you must leave a cars width on the edge of the circuit for your competitor. If you go one way and then the other you are likely to cause a crash for numerous reasons including the loss of downforce they get when you steal someone else's line (see Baku 2018) or banging into the person you are racing. So max was just being his usual self. He knew he was in the wrong, the team knew it too, but it isn't in their DNA for them to ever admit to having done something wrong. Next race, Lando needs to keep on doing what he did last week. Max won't learn until he's been in the gravel enough times. He hasn't changed at all since 2021; the only reason we haven't seen it until now is that none of the other teams had cars capable of racing him.

[@ah97165]

WHAT ARE THOSE TRAINERS!!! 😂😂😂

[@Letsgopats72]

Watching a couple of my favorite Brits on the day we became independent from them 🤣

[@SWatchik]

Well atleast BMW will be happy one person wants to look at it...

[@retireinstyle-onabudget65]

Tony, cover up those legs!

[@obsidian....]

16:55 That's the dumbest comment by Sam ever... A NA throttle response is going to be 2X faster than a turbo car 🤔

[@HG504X]

Its not an M5. Ugly, heavy, worse performance than the last one. BMW and Mercedes just don't get it.

[@derekdainton1]

The most annoying edition.

[@darthvaper6745]

Your natural chemistry together has now been caught up by a series pro way of bouncing off each other and a lot more polished...Lovin. But I still sort of miss Tony beijg properly snarky to Archie on occasion. I was'nt sure if it was Tony being a bit bitch of a douchebag or is Archie just a total nob?... .We now know the answer. TONY IS MEGA

[@aeromotive2]

im in the 488 camp, genuinely adore that car.. and im an unabashed 458 hater - i wake up daily in a bad mood because that car exists

[@nigel.w]

The 488 would not exist if not for the 458. You "wake up daily in a bad mood because that car exists." You can't be for real!

[@MediocreHero66]

Vanquish correct picture, Vantage wrong picture, DBS wrong picture... does the editor know much about cars?

[@bigdavelad]

Whys Tony keep going on about your Panamera being a V8? Its a 4 E-Hybrid right? So a 2.9 V6 🤔 Also, 488>>>458 and F10 M5>>>that ugly monstrosity new one

[@Chrissy-H]

I'm gonna back you up here Sam... I think the 488 styling is wicked, the 458 is an ugly duckling and the F8 tributo is a fiddly mess. So the 488 is the sweetspot, the stance is perfect and at that price it's a bargain. Screw the haters. The good news is, all these idiots buying 458's might one day mean I can afford a 488 myself.

[@nigel.w]

Ugly? Mess? Haters? Idiots? Going forward, the 488 is much more likely to have problems. Chances are by the time you can a afford a 488, you'll be looking to buy a 458. And remember what the "ugly duckling" became.

[@Taylor40667]

To me the m5 has allways been more of a cruiser/comfortable out of the m cars. If you want pure agility get the m3 if you want more comfort but still very capable then its the m5, to me ive allways thought the thekugh the years with the m cars. Im not saying the m5 is not a m car it will be still immense but the weight issue wont matter than much as your not going flat or as much as you would in a m3 constantly for e.g m3 youd take on track then drive home, how many m5 owners really go on track? M5 is the ultimate long distance european autobahn car 2500kg is heavy but dont see it as a huge issue, will have to wait to see reviews, the bhp/tonne is similar if not more than the last one with 720ps so power isnt a issue. If your wanting ultimate corning yes the weight you will feel well buy a m2.

[@mrminiature11]

The power to weight ratio of the last 2 generations has been better than this new one. You'd have to go back to the E60 to find a worse power to weight ratio. I do agree that it's probably best to wait until reviews come out. The M2 is chunky for the class, but a lot of well respected journalists such as Chris Harris say that the car is still better than the last one. At the same time the power to weight ratio is up over the previous generation competition version of the M2. I also don't necessarily agree that it's always been an Autobahn cruiser, the M5 CS was praised as one of the best all round cars because of its lap time around "the ring". I understand that is the CS version but it's still an M5 and BMW wouldn't have put that much effort into making it a great all rounder if straight like speed was all that mattered.

[@-LK34-]

@@mrminiature11who cares about power to weight ratio? The E60 was and still is an unbelievable driving experience, I’m sure this one will be too, BMW are not stupid

[@sultanoftippoo3857]

I’ve never owned or driven a modern M5 but I bought my e39 M5 back in 2003 and over the three years I owned the car and covered just over 125k miles, it was without the most capable all round car I’ve driven before or since. Yes it performed its duties of being an effortless cruiser but it’s ability to safely overtake traffic from 40 up to very illegal speeds had in my experience no peer and as a B road scratcher it would comfortably outhandle my S2000. Since then I owned an e92 M3 which was fabulous and then one of the first M2’s which TBH was a bit of a disappointment. To me therefore BMW M cars have changed and evolved to where they are now but from what I’ve read from owners of newer cars, not always for the better.

[@mrminiature11]

@@-LK34- I was responding to his comment as he mentioned the power to weight ratio. I never said it was the be all and end all to determine if a car is great or not.

[@MVD792]

The Verstappen hate by the Brits is just so old and cringe...

[@SpontaneousEvolution]

Skip F1, the pod starts 10:32

[@oneeleven9832]

If people haven’t owned a car stop parroting what everybody says about it..because half of it is internet nonsense..comment on weight, looks yeah but handling/ reliability..just stop.

[@CITRUS--]

No, Joe Achillies opinions on BMW's should ALWAYS be taken tentatively. Why are we regurgitating the bias opinions of self edmitted shill??😂

[@lindman399]

Sebastian Vettel nicknamed Max "The torpedoe" for some reason lol

[@HIYAharry]

No that’s Daniel Kyvat?

[@leowasdead]

that was Kvyat not Max in China 2016. stop clowning on max because you have no knowledge of F1.

[@cyuiyuwyguiyui8540]

A 488 with the right exhaust is the way to go. Its so much faster in every way compared to a 458.. The ones with the biggest opinions are always the ones with the smallest wallets.

[@earthtoimani]

These people not pronouncing English words in English is just ridiculous. It's Valiant and Valour, not Valié and Valoor

[@redshovel]

Is that why they won’t come round and fix my boiler ?

[@nonamenameless5495]

@@redshovel ... your boiler...ahm, that d be Vaillant then... a German manufacturer pronounced more like "Whylaahnt"

[@redshovel]

@@nonamenameless5495 😂

[@nonamenameless5495]

@@redshovel Don t get overconfident now, I bet your local shop will still tell you, it ll take weeks to get an appointment and once they came around, another two weeks for the right part to arrive which then will turn out to be the wrong one... possibly due to them having ordered some pipe for the Chrysler Valiant instead of the Vaillant boiler you got ;). Verdict: get used to cold showers and save money.

[@nigel.w]

Well, Tony is poorly educated, so we should cut him some slack. Sam, on the other hand, isn't a good advertisement for Eton.