Is the PP System BROKEN? | Gran Turismo 7 Tuning Tips

[@bobbydebobadibob1261]

ususally kept it to my self cos I can't be arsed to go into it.. But since GT2 I noticed many ppl buy the upgrades for a car such as racing suspension, then just races it - BUT all the add on actually did was give the adjustablity - IT DIDN'T actually change anything!. simply looking at the spring rate before and after shows nothing changed. but check the spring rate on pretuned cars and it's been jacked right up. so when it come to camber / toe / compression / rebound / brake power / custom gearbox tunes, there are seconds to be made up everywhere if you're willing to spend time testing. this is what I've always loved about the game.

[@adz94wally]

after having a bit of a play around i think ive worked out what is actually happening here the PP algorithm takes into acount the G at 150mph, but if you set the gear ratios up so that the car can never actually reach 150mph then it cant technically produce any Gs at 150 and so it gives a 0 rating which lowers the overall PP rating. i suppose its not really a glitch or broken but just a flaw in the very complicated PP system GT7 has tried to implement.

[@tydendurler9574]

See, that's what i'm trying to say in my comment. Shortening gears so you don't reach 150mph (because you don't need to / won't ever on that course) and that's simply how their pp-system works then. Not broken, just complex and maybe a tad bit annyoing.

[@oxey_]

@@tydendurler9574 I'm not sure, I think gear ratios are too track dependent to actually incorporate into the pp system, like on tracks with short/no straights like tsukuba the shorter gears will outperform longer ones without the pp system being aware of it at all. I think it probably wouldn't hurt to take out gears out of pp altogether since you can't really tell from setup alone how well a car will do

[@adz94wally]

@@oxey_ there's only a handful of tracks that will really benefit from extending the gear ratios past 150mph, route X, Tokyo expressway. I mainly only race around the nurburgring and even on there there's only 2-3 areas where I'm able to hit the rev limiter. On a 700pp limit my absolute best time was a 6:43 without nitrous. After using this trick I gained another 7 seconds. I don't think the track itself really matters too much but more the PP limit you are racing at, the lower the PP limit the more you can benefit from using this trick.

[@Harmonic14]

I cover this at 1:03. Lol

[@adz94wally]

@@Harmonic14 you don't really explain how you did this though, I mean how you actually got the tune to the point where changing 1 single thing can cause the 0.00g at 150mph.

[@Toejammer62]

This explains a lot of my frustration with daily races and such. I recently made the change to a wheel / pedals setup, and while my offline times were noticeably faster, my gains online were minimal. I really noticed it in qualifying times, where I usually started mid pack, but the gap between myself and maybe the top 4 qualifiers was 2-3 sec. every race. And in the race, I couldn't make up that gap, even while being faster than the cars behind me. I wish I had found your channel earlier, but I'm glad I stumbled upon this now ! This is great info, thank you !!

[@Nuf_Nivah]

Yes i was in a race and i was faster than everyone on getting out of the corners and they finally ganged up and spun me out. Then the leader comes up and it says move over for a faster car but he couldn’t pass me and right at the finish line he tried to spin me out and got around me buy barely and it finished me at the same time. This game is far from a simulator and far from the older gt games

[@stevolarry420stevenslozz3]

Yes! This is exactly what I was meaning when I said more like this the other day! Your idea to focus on builds for cars won in game is also a very good idea! I have switched all my tuning friends onto your channel bro!

[@MrAhmer]

Well my friend, we know what YOU have to do. Keep churning out those amazing tune videos!! I will keep liking, viewing and commenting to get your word out there. Help us stay competitive!! You're the bomb! Peace

[@DrRyan82994]

i just used a megane trophy 11’ with a gear limited speed of 149, sports soft tires 94% power, max downforce and 600pp overall. absolutely crushes 600 point spa it’s insane

[@NickBDesigns]

Great find! I really appreciate the help in seeing what’s going on

[@anthonishaw5231]

I concur with everyone here. I’m new to tuning AND a new subscriber. Long trip ahead with GT7. Thanks for the knowledge. I’m here for it !

[@slimjymquan]

Came from Twitter just wanted to show some love and support keep up the good work 🤙

[@LaurenceIsTechno]

I noticed this when trying to detune my Mazda gt3 for the wtc700 championship. Thought it was some sort of glitch, and never really thought about it in a competitive way before

[@LucifersLandLord]

I will be liking (and sometimes commenting) on your videos to increase engagement. Your videos are so informative for GT7 fans! Turn on that notification bell everyone :)

[@ABoxOfToast]

This plus the highly abusable track limits really make me never want to touch multiplayer, really wish BOP was back and honestly kinda just wanna go back to GT sport

[@novmbrone]

You should try turning it on the strict setting like they use in multiplayer. There is 0 tolerance for cutting.

[@MrShadowofthewind]

Just stick to cruise/ track day lobbies then, you can still test your cars against others that way.

[@dustinjackson3646]

BOP races are back (at least as of rn)

[@ABoxOfToast]

@@dustinjackson3646 i know, it's definitely a step in the right direction imo

[@damonn44]

@@ABoxOfToast on ya bike mate

[@Hason_Jason]

Thx 4 the info, subbed and here via SuperGT recommendation. All tips n tricks welcomed Mr, I need all the help I can get. lol

[@wurble]

As someone who loves online racing, GT Sport was brilliant and the BoP system worked very well. I haven't touched an online race in GT7 yet. Not only am I clueless about suspension settings and gear ratios etc, I just knew the potential would be there for people to exploit the system. Not to mention the slack track limits. I kinda hope that people will continue to exploit so that Polyphony will just think "screw it" and go back to BoP for daily races.

[@sammyh.748]

I hope they keep the open setups. I'm not sure why they aren't using the BoP restrictions to balance weight and HP though. This PP system should only be used to balance street cars (since BoP setting don't exist for them now), but when they do the PP system they should also add HP and weight restrictions so people can't abuse the system. Edit: I feel they are just doing tests through the daily races right to see how well each system works to determine if things need adjustments and to figure out the best system they should use for the FIA races.

[@GopherCR]

Thankfully the championship races are BoP and no tuning so that means we can focus on that until we understand tuning more.. and they fix the exploits.

[@cozza819]

Huh strange I spent countless hours in GTS in great online lobbies racing against each other with the exact same format as GT7. 300/400/500bhp limit but you could tune and develop you car so much. It was so fun shaving time of your laps and learning about what makes cars handle well. A big factor in Motorsport. We'd send each other tunes and learn more.

[@tydendurler9574]

@@sammyh.748 yup. A lot in this game feels like "beta test phase". That's just how it is these days, as sad as it is.

[@sammyh.748]

@@tydendurler9574 Yeah, I don't think it is Polyphony's fault though. I feel Sony pressured Kaz into releasing a bit too soon. He may have quite a bit of sway with Sony but there is only so much he can persuade them to do, because at the end of the day Sony is the publisher and Kaz already had it delayed a year.

[@shadowslip7125]

Really useful, thank you. I had noticed that some people were exceptionally fast. The PP system is trying to be too clever. Definitely a case of K.I.S.S. Also focusing on gift car tunes would be awesome! Have a sub! :)

[@isellcrack3537]

but not kiss. never kiss.

[@njlji]

me no mae no tobira o aketara harukaze tori tachi mo kigi de machiawase kimi e mukau shingō wa aozora iro kakedase ba ii usotsuki kakuritsu ron toka ichi purasu ichi ga mugen toka oshiete kureta kimi to sagashi ni ikou haru machi clover

[@rickeichelberger2874]

Thanks :) i been off the mark by about 1.5 secs. i will for sure give this a go

[@stoneover]

Keep it coming. I’m interested in these setups and will watch and like them all. keep up the good work. I struggle with setups and what you’re doing is key for me to improve my knowledge. Thank you for this its super helpful.

[@togera77]

I think the Performance point changing when you change something very important like the suspension, mainly the ride height if the car has a diffuser, is ok. what I think is wrong here is the massive difference between when you add 1kg or reduce the power by 1%. 24 performance point loss between each of those settings is massive for such a small change and I think that is the main issue

[@tydendurler9574]

Couldn't it simply be a bug, not a feature?

[@togera77]

@@tydendurler9574 I don't think you really understand how setups work. even IRL, some suspension settings actuaally makes your car perform way better. what I actually pointed is the 24PP loss/gain over a single tick of a setting. that is the real bug

[@SgHawk144]

@@togera77 the only reason it’s taking 24 points off is his top spear dropped below 253kph with that change. You couldn’t take another kg off and loose another 24 points. It’s an issue yes, but it’s no use on faster cars as you’ll be smashing the limiter on every straight. You can do exactly the same thing with the custom gearbox and adjusting your top gear.

[@DrRyan82994]

@@SgHawk144 on short tracks up to 700pp, 149 top speed is really no problem. i’ll max the downforce anyway and usually it’s hard to go much faster than 150 regardless. at 600pp even long tracks you do better with the 149 speed limit, you’re talking about the difference between sport hards and sport softs

[@hideomituns2184]

Thank you so much. You're awesome and inspirational 👍

[@latinavenger6660]

Great stuff Amigo!!! 👍🏾😎👍🏾 love ur videos.

[@rover1374]

Would love to see tunes for cars you get in game.

[@unpredictableiii]

Idk if it's bc I'm playing it on ps4 but when I change the settings to my suspension/ or Ballas settings the performance stats on the left bottom explaining the g force/ acceleration speeds ect non of those numbers change after I hit measure stats. Only time anything changes is if I upgrade the car engine mods

[@SpressoX3]

Thank you that was a great explanation. And yes please if you have the time please explain your tuning. For example if you raised or lower that number you're going to have understeer or an unstable rear Etc. And what the heck is resonance OMG

[@CalculatedRiskAK]

HokiHoshi made a great video on explaining the settings. I would watch that for sure.

[@GopherCR]

Thanks harmonic. Would be great to have a free car set up video so I can compare my tunes to your good tunes and see how much of a difference it makes, now grinding for cars is a big deal I think less people will go for the meta and with a good tune, any car with a good tune will be better than bought cars without.

[@mvenom4088]

Thanks, keep the videos coming!

[@64fairlane305]

Reminds me of the missile problem in FM4 with musclecars. Same calculation-problem. I told turn10 to give the old cars an open rearend gearing and they did. Problem solved

[@Harmonic14]

Yea FM4 had a similar issue. It got better after that update, but rev banging cars were still the meta for a lot of combos for the rest of the game's life

[@johnstratton7050]

Please make a video or videos on explaining all the different settings. Explain to me like I’m 5. I’m clueless and I’m sure other people would love this.

[@jay_suby1718]

I just wanted to say thanks for tips.

[@shishgeor]

Another thing is how horsepower contributes to pp. It takes the maximum horsepower value, rather than area under the curve. So, when tuning, using less ecu restriction and more power restrictor restriction would give you a better performing car. This is because the horsepower over the entire rev range will be higher, only the max horsepower value stays the same.

[@cdotcizzle6268]

So moral of the story 0 rotational G and use that drop in app to add power. I too wondered why just 1 click sometimes made PP jump so drastically

[@litreocola6447]

Hopefully with a patch it gets resolved. So far if these glitches are ignored the racing can be very good in gt7 when using pp ratings

[@Netrole]

The one more click of weight, or one click less power probably was enough that the car could not reach 150 mph on the simulated lap. Therefore rotational G at 150 mph was 0

[@peterkania4757]

i been doing some pp races online i have a mini cooper 05 set up to the max with a hp rating of 285 and a pp of 679 max so i set that pp rating in races but then ppl come in with race cars or example a r34 skyline with a higher hp and higher gear. where they usally get me is in the straights but corners seems to be the same. one major thing comes into play is top speed that i think will need to change for pp rating as i cant get my car up to top speed as fast as the high end cars. as a side note would love to see more setups vids of normal cars

[@VidiverseExplorer]

Knowing is half the battle, if you can take advantage of pp rating then you already defeated the racers that haven't, but I agree they need to do some more tweakin, but it Gran Turismo, they'll perfect it eventually, and I'm sure they find a nice balance for the credit earnings as well.

[@justuraveragecunt9005]

I doubt they'll do anything abt earning credits, but this, definitely

[@spookyflite9651]

I used to be able to race my Toyota TS050 in the GT World Championships, but now since the update I’m no longer able to tune it below 800… anybody else have the same issues?

[@ThisIsExile91]

Damn you are gaining subs

[@RallycrossGT]

yes, I had noticed the same thing and found it very strange. I like the way you explained and put this into a video though. this needs to be fixed ASAP or Online Racing will be absolutely pointless

[@patrickcw8]

why the setting sheet is locked for some cars such as Audi R8 Evo when playing arcade race resulted in gear ratio can't be adjusted?

[@Harmonic14]

It's balanced with BoP, so no tuning is allowed

[@patrickcw8]

@@Harmonic14 OIC

[@joekooy3821]

I'm confused. They have bop online daily races. Not all of them but most.

[@waynedaley7738]

I can't enter race C can't even practice because I can not change my car weight on any of my gr3 cars..the ballast part you use doesn't work for me..nothing I can do about it

[@rustybrown771]

I was fighting with this today. One thing I didn’t touch was ballast. Definitely will mess with it more now thx.

[@bugjuicer]

I've not done any online racing. I don't have time to play with settings like this, I get to grab a 15 min break at night when everything is done, and I don't want to suck at every race. There should be tuned and BOP racing, you pick which lobby you want..

[@sexarchopoulos]

Totally agree never liked the PP system since it's introduction at GT 5. Sadly its getting worst with every new title

[@novmbrone]

I would say that BoP is broken too. Every time there is BoP in single player or multiplayer, my car gets left by everyone else. Had a 26 second lead with two laps left and almost lost the race completely while putting down PBs.

[@Harmonic14]

BoP needs work for sure, as does the single player rubber banding

[@StolenPw]

Same my car was doing great times until the race and then it felt like I tuned traction control off.

[@shodancat1000]

thinking about this a little more, while i'm sure it requires balance adjustments, i don't think the example given here would play out the same at every track. in short, i think on a track with relatively short straights you see the huge gains, but if you were to try this same trick at, say, Nordschleife or Bathurst, the gearing difference/top end limitation could significantly hurt your lap. it's just a thought though, i don't even have a playstation currently, lol.

[@Harmonic14]

That is 100% correct. If a track had a long enough straight, this exploit would probably hurt you more than help.

[@FirstTuber123]

I thought the same thing but how exactly does one approach this then. As an exploit? Exploits usually give you an advantage all of the time not just some of the time.

[@tydendurler9574]

@@FirstTuber123 because it is not an "exploit". It's simply how tuning (in GT7) works.

[@FirstTuber123]

@@tydendurler9574 Ok he said that 137mph was the top speed of the car anyway. So any car fits the bill. Just an exploit of how the tuning system works. I doubt this is what they intended, but I hate to think this type of thing slipped by in development. It’s one hell of a game changer. I like the tuning system but I think about how many people are going to just give up on multiplayer. I hope it doesn’t take patch after patch to get it right.

[@tydendurler9574]

@@FirstTuber123 of course it'll take patch after patch to get it right. What do you expect, a finished product? 😅

[@patolek1990]

I saw ppl going so quick in my daily race i had no idea how they was able to do it i also notice by change some settings by 1 point rating of my car change by over 40 points it is so broken

[@kamilex5]

I know it's annoying

[@TheSimpleSuperior1]

Hey I have a question about tuning. I bought the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '13. I bought all the upgrades in the tuning shop that raised its PP. I feel like I messed it up somehow. It feels like it changes gears too fast and abruptly while driving. To restore the body it costs 2.4 million. I’m not sure what to do.

[@Harmonic14]

Lower the final drive number. You might have too much power for the gearbox and you're just going through all the gears super quickly

[@TheSimpleSuperior1]

Thanks for the tip! I found you could remove most of the parts in the settings.

[@OGCYT]

Less is more as we say in the states. The more "in depth" you make features the more likely they are to be abused. IRL, race drivers have a decent knowledge of mechanics to properly convey what's going on with the driven car, but it's up to the engineers to make the changes. In most racing games we are both racer and engineer, and it's honestly troublesome at times. I say all that to say a more simple approach to tuning is more preferred than complexity.

[@tydendurler9574]

Like "paying taxes" is a really in-depth-feature of real life?

[@matteasterling5498]

Gran Turismo needs to back to an Balance of Power system like they had in GT Sport. It made the races more competitive, and balanced. I don't feel like messing with suspension, differential, transmission setups in this game to get an competitive edge, (Do you think Lewis Hamilton adjust settings on his car when he goes in the paddock by himself, or does he have engineers that do it for him.) . I'm not an engineer that should have to know about lateral G's, I just want to have fun and race.

[@tooprood]

There should be competitive presets. Having the ability to tune precisely is fine imo, but damn is it unfair to the people who just dont care about all of that. then again tunes largely depend on driving style so that wouldnt really work either

[@JensenAmory]

I was adding ballast to an evo and it was jumping 20/30 pp every single kg

[@IIGrayfoxII]

Are you using any aids like brake assist, steer assist, counter steer assist, TC above 1?

[@Harmonic14]

All my settings are in the description

[@llxmar6532]

Do you have any good cars & set ups for the 550pp events?

[@gaming365-k3v]

Hi champ, can u explain the buttom og PP POINTS. Rotationel G and Stabillity, shout the numbers be high or low or standard? Thx for the vid

[@jaredrubin7843]

do i have to reach a certain lvl to do this?

[@AlPacenis24]

Will this be a common theme with other daily races and tunes? Shorter gears?

[@Harmonic14]

For anything with PP restrictions, yes. Everything else *should* be normal

[@davea6481]

This has always been a part of GT since pp system was first introduced lol

[@mexicanjesus8672]

this kinda reminds me when i drove the ae86 everywhere maxed pp settings was like 463 pp NA tune and i would beat super cars and tuned cars but they couldnt hold a fast line and take corners flat but i would help people find the smooth line the in out in line

[@Nodnarb518]

I saw your time at the top of the leaderboard which led me here. I was wondering what the deal was.

[@Taverius]

I noticed this early on. Doesn't seem like the PP system is broken, just seems like the top speed lateral G values have a bug? Fix that and it all goes away *shrug*

[@Harmonic14]

Fair point - the lateral G bug is definitely the root cause here

[@isaacoliveira33]

In the daly races there are 1000hp cars with 500pp and also there is me with my 250hp car getting smoked Like they are 11 seconds faster

[@Driftuner]

I noticed one of these days tuning a car, that lowering the engine power via ecu or restrictor would actually increase PP, and giving it full engine power would decrease PP. Than i noticed that a better clutch pack would lower PP and a worse clutch would increase PP....weird stuff

[@Marco_Codispoti]

In GT sport i was feeling better with the tuning in each car and run. In GT7, To do drifting, im losing a lot of hours to do a great setting, when in GT sport was more general and easy to do it. Here is doing difference too the size of the tires, if u put large or different can change everythings, and its very unnerving after much hours 🤯🤯🤯

[@philipcsiki8033]

So is it only at a certain threshold it has such a drastic effect or is it only certain number combinations that do it?

[@kevinfairclough4619]

Yes. This was one extreme example where there is a threshold change when the car is/is not able to go above 150 mph, so the calculations that make up the pp rating can’t include rotational G at 150 mph. I presume the same would happen at 100 mph. Gearing and power are the obvious variable to change the cars top speed but in this extreme example his car must have been geared to pretty much exactly 150mph and by adding one extra kg of ballast it brought his theoretical top speed just below 150. There are other less extreme examples with other variables.

[@DanMcBoost]

How about: Not starting equal cars ~40 seconds ahead of you in a 3-4-5 lap race. WTF?

[@Darrihen]

I just trying the settings today, before the video in my R34... 775pp I get with the Nissan... then the Supra, 765 aprox... both cars reaching 360 and 370 kmph no Nitro.

[@funkyblue3166]

in casual observation, it seems that odd numbers are what trips the system up. Maybe an irrational number issue?

[@litreocola6447]

Is this common in coding? I’ve only run programs in javascript, python and matlab and I’ve never had an issue with irrational numbers so is it normal in programming for an oversight such as not being able to compute something due to running out of decimal places? If so then maybe it can be resolved by rounding values in the formula it uses you think?

[@funkyblue3166]

@@litreocola6447 I don't really know anything about coding, except that programs usually have a way to work around non-terminating decimals.

[@litreocola6447]

@@funkyblue3166 from a previous video on this channel someone found the solution to this and it’s actually quite funny lol: if your car can’t reach 150mph the rotational g rating at 150 isn’t calculated, and as a result is left as 0. That’s why short gear ratios are important - you gotta reach a max speed below 150mph to circumvent the rating. Sounds like a pretty easy fix honestly, just interpolate between 100mph and 150mph in terms of pp rating to the max speed limit and get the rating from that scaled value

[@Gutigwolfe]

So you're saying if I want to win, add a ballast and up the weight by 1kg? Also the way gearing effects PP is crazy. I got my PP to 550.01 for a race(needed 550), but setting it one more point drops it to 548. Decimals are also an issue. The fact you can denied entry by .01 is insane. Also I did races with cars that were over 600PP in a 550PP race. I don't know if it is intentional, but it makes some of the races pretty hard.

[@SgHawk144]

Why would you expect a car that is 550.01 to be allowed in? It’s over the limit, simple as that.

[@Gutigwolfe]

@@SgHawk144 and Im saying the pp system is flawed. I got a power restrictor to lower my pp and setting it down put my pp up. Explain how making my car worse made it too good for the race. Either way I did the race, but its a flawed system.

[@SgHawk144]

@@Gutigwolfe that didn’t answer my question…

[@Gutigwolfe]

@@SgHawk144 your question was asking why I expect to enter a race if Im over, but I never said that. I was explaining it was broken, so I replied with a further explanation of that instead.

[@SgHawk144]

@@Gutigwolfe - “the fact you can denied entry for .01 is insane” Suggests you disagree, no?

[@gordongreene6919]

feature not a bug. I saw a beginners tips like a month ago and it said you can mess around with settings to get extra power under pp regulations. So I took that to heart through the game. My favorite one is the Alfa Romero c4 road car, with the bore up, soft sports tires, suspension, and a couple of weight reductions. Thing is as nimble as my little 1.8 liter 2700 pound Hyundai Elantra in RL, only with double the horses, yet so light it really kills on sport tires. This left a lot of PP's to play around with. That's my advice. Find setups that let you run sports tires. Racing tires are worth a ton of PP, and many cars don't have the low end torque get those proper in the first place. End up having to drop gears too much just to keep up the torque.

[@Harmonic14]

No, it's 100% a bug. Two functionally identical setups should not be 40+ PP apart. That makes 0 sense.

[@awili23]

Hi Harmonic, do you play with a controller or a wheel ?

[@Harmonic14]

Controller

[@MrShadowofthewind]

The problem is not persé the PP, it's that the measuring of the PP does not make any sense, adding weight alot of times raises PP, why ? Also when you toy around with the weight and power and even downforce, you get to these certain points where adding or removing just 1 adds and lowers alot of PP, the drop and rise is too high for how precise you have to be to optimize PP, why can't we controll the power per HP, instead of per 3/5, the jump is too big.

[@Harmonic14]

It's true that PP isn't the root of the problem, but it's the end metric for these events that we have to base our tunes on. The root of the problem is how the game simulates rotational G, and that's what gets factored into the PP rating. As for HP adjustments, while it's annoying that they're not super precise, it's very difficult IRL to have that level of control reliably, so I suppose it makes sense.

[@drnhara]

Yes PP based races are way more broken than Bhp/Weight ones. Hope they can fix this.

[@twrecks4598]

this applies to BoP races? Sorry, think I missed something. This is a game changer for me if this can be used in BoP races

[@Harmonic14]

No, only PP based events where tuning is allowed

[@Beck_Bones2]

Maybe this has something to do with why all the daily’s this week were bop races. I hope it stays that way but people can still exploit track limits and cheat that way.

[@mythoughts3759]

Why wouldn’t tune setting adjust and affect the cars PP? That’s realistic. You took out some top speed but then gained acceleration by doing that and that’s what you needed specifically on that track to go quicker. The game is just making us learn and understand how to tune you car on a track by track basis. Which is exactly what teams do in real life. I’m personally very happy with how the system works. Either way great video.

[@Harmonic14]

I don't think you understand the problem. You can make functionally identical setups that are 40+ PP apart, which is what I show here. Extending a gear ratio by 0.001 or adding 1 kg won't change your lap times in any noticeable way, but the game places the car into a completely different class because of how it simulates performance.

[@DonatoXlll]

Tuning a vehicle for a track has been in GT since the series first launch tho….

[@Harmonic14]

Yes, but dropping your last gear to gain 100+ PP shouldn't have been a thing, hence why they have since fixed it. Helps to watch the video, bud 😂

[@MrDRE01]

I think its always better to reduxce more on ECu than engine power ;) at least how it used to be back in the days ;)

[@Harmonic14]

Power restrictor is always better. The ECU output doesn't change your power curve, whereas the power restrictor pulls down the peak while not affecting the low end as much, so the power band is much wider.

[@AcidRP]

I rememeber GT7 whatever happend to that game?

[@mexicanjesus8672]

so i guess my tq tuned trans is dead now

[@pmacnz]

Always online is broken. Snap oversteer is broken. Grip ffb is too linear and grip loss feedback is poor. Also brake lockup does nothing and gives no ffb.

[@sukoshikanatomo]

Exactly, snap oversteer is way exaggerated

[@DrunkenVtec]

Adjust ballast towards the front to fix the snap oversteer for the time being

[@DrRyan82994]

physics seem really forgiving to me, not nearly as much as other gran turismos i guess

[@litreocola6447]

Thank you for exposing this exploit, such a shame as I thought PD would have done enough testing to catch some of these bugs. We need to let them know as soon as possible what the exploits are because meta tunes destroy competitive and fun racing. However, 9:12 I strongly disagree that tuning should be omitted from PP ratings - either prevent tuning all together or measure every single aspect of the car, no in between - this is what forza does and it’s broken beyond repair. Omitting tuning would add even more exploits in terms of suspension settings and even clunkier gear ratios. I wanna add one thing tho: performance rating systems, in any racing game, shouldn’t measure stats over an “average” race track or “average” race distance. PP should be calculated for the race itself, including tire wear and fuel consumption multipliers. That way, there’s statistically less variance in builds and you minimize the chance for meta cars. And in gran turismo it would work perfectly because you can adjust your PP rating by adding weight ballast and power restrictors without any additional cost. Cars could even be automatically tuned to spec if people want them to

[@Harmonic14]

I don't agree with tuning being a part of performance rating - no other racing event, real or virtual, does anything like this. There is a theoretical maximum amount of time any particular upgrade will gain you, and that's what should be used as the gain in measured performance. Forza's PI system is arguably more functional than GT's despite its flaws and go-to upgrades for maxing a build. Measuring performance for a race itself would require way too much effort, and it certainly wouldn't be accurate if they're already this far off the mark with such a basic system.

[@litreocola6447]

@@Harmonic14my case for measuring each race differently is your point about gear ratios - would gear ratios be an exploit if the characteristics of the track were considered in the pp rating? No, it would be taken into account in the theoretical race stint duration. Performance ratings are measured in relation to a global average of required performance attributes, meaning nuances are overlooked and as a result field spread is a huge problem. It’s not that hard of a concept to grasp it’s just takes a little more effort from the player to adjust the rating of their car from daily race to daily race. And daily races only change every week so it would be perfect for gt7

[@steben7164]

when ur an osu player and a car enthusiast and you see pp system in gt7 and think what the fuck is going on

[@dqpbwk]

I have enjoyed the graphics, and game play on this, but online stability and performace of cars due to rating systems has been absolutely horrible

[@MattyC_96]

At least now I know why I keep getting dusted by Mazdas in sport mode

[@mattalford3932]

If they keep it like this week then it's fixed lol. No tuning in this weeks daily races.

[@stevenschear2922]

I totally agree thanks for the video

[@Tube2097]

This need fixed ASAP. I noticed this very early on and it winds me up something rotting. Lol.

[@theundead1600]

By not following sports use of FIA rules they messed up. I will say I’ve been messing with power restrictior and ballast and it’s not made any of these tuning numbers happen. I’ve found one car they seem to messed up on the Ferrari iltalia I’ve raced next to the ai and flat out caught air and another stock one next to me was fine on the hills drop next to me. Watching the replay it’s same speed no breaking. I will say thei “exploit “ is similar to what race engineers do to win and innovate to get around rules. BMW had gotten into trouble so many times because they made more tuning to the engine that the FIA restrictions didn’t matte their m3 killed the completion. While latter they left racing for a bit due to a seemingly FIA hunt on them. They proved that the rules are the engineers challenge not hinderance. So what you’ve done is just tunning

[@Harmonic14]

No, it's not "just tuning". You can have 2 functionally identical setups with 40+ PP of difference, which is clearly a problem with the in-game system.

[@ExodiaNecross2]

Performance points excellent in GT7 better then BOP & better multi class racing.

[@tydendurler9574]

Well... Shortening the gears as much as possible for better lap times is one of the first things i learned as a 12 year old playing GT1 with my father 25 years ago...sooo thats just how GT is i guess.

[@Harmonic14]

That's not what's going on here... The problem is you can lengthen the gears by 0.001, add 1 kg of ballast, etc. to break the game and have 2 functionally identical setups that are 40+ PP apart. I discuss this in video if you actually watched it.

[@tydendurler9574]

@@Harmonic14 well...i do get your point, but again "isn't that simply how it's supposed to work"?! You can tune in different ways to arrive at the same pp-threshold with different outcomes / performance. Isn't that the point? I understand when you think that's annyoing, but otherwise everbody would just run the same setup meta and we wouldn't need to tune in the first place. Which could be indeed less annyoing...🤔 (wanna mention i did not play GT Sport at all and i have not tried GT7 online yet...maybe for good reasons^^)

[@Harmonic14]

@@tydendurler9574 no, that's not the point. You can arrive at 2 functionally identical setups that are 40+ PP apart with this. You can't argue that 1kg of ballast or a 0.001 shorter gear will affect your performance in any noticeable way.

[@kresimircosic9035]

I had a situation (tinkering with numbers) I gained PPs (lol) while reducing power.

[@tydendurler9574]

Yes but the thing is: Do you understand why? Hint: more power does not always make the car faster (as in lap time, which is what matters)

[@kresimircosic9035]

@@tydendurler9574 Yeah, you think 1 point in ECU adjustment meant a 5% increase in power you're dreaming. The fact that you can oversteer or understeer more easily due to having 3HP more makes 0 sense in increasing PP for 5%

[@GreenTheGrape]

Are the servers even open rn?

[@Harmonic14]

No, they're not. Just wanted to put this out there since I can't play the game to tune anything. lol

[@ZephyrusBlue]

I knew my PP was broken >:( But seriously, every time I have to crunch to a specific threshold with any of the cars I want to use, I just get smoked.

[@quintfl]

So it turns out a ballast actually makes your car faster.

[@monkeyboy405]

your power restricter settings also changed on the secont attempt!

[@Harmonic14]

That's the entire point... The bug allowed me to run more power at the same PP.

[@KeenEyeVP]

Yes.

[@rpd_lazer3479]

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s going anywhere, too much money to be made. They should make each race have the option of both.

[@MosesFalconi]

Thank you for speaking normally and not yelling or putting on a dumb affectation to sound like a radio guy or some dingus KZbinr.

[@Powerslide15]

In a race that uses fuel, your car will also become lighter over time.

[@mswompkins3010]

wow i didn’t know lol.

[@DrRyan82994]

so technically if the weight was holding you back to 149, you gain like 30 pp when you drive a little while. i guess the same is true when you have a tailwind

[@MorrWorm8]

Gearbox tuning like that has been going on since the start of gran Turismo

[@dingoko5557]

the point is it has an effect on PP

[@n3rdstrength]

Has to be a bug, I couldn't believe the tunes I was getting for race B this week. Totally ridiculous.

[@YellowEvoV110]

Well this pp system is still much better than the pp system of gt6 and gt5 where you just can downtune a sauber c9 to 650pp.