Is the Valve Index Still Worth Buying Today?

[@Ymirrr.]

i really really hate when people respond to a question like "should I buy the index in 202_?" and say back, "Nah man, wait for the next headset" because you have no real 1st hand evidence that this actually is happening. You can see it in this video as well. He says in the video that you should maybe wait for the next headset that valve is "working on" behind the scenes. If you were to follow this, you would have waited up to this year for no apparent reason and just go down the rabbit hole of "Dang, didn't come out this year, guess Ill just wait next year" and end up either losing interest, or spiraling into the dilusion of the headset coming soon. At the end of the day, its valve lmao. A new headset could be announced in 5 minutes, or never.

[@bimmerr5765]

Just bought one for $400 second hand with the protective plastic still on it. Could not be happier with it, such a huge jump from the vive 2016 ive been using.

[@RabidDisposition]

My vive 2016 went kaput years ago lol

[@Coffantasy]

how tf do u get it for 600 bucks

[@Coffantasy]

i got the number wrong. he said 400 but that just makes it even weirder@matchamani

[@coreblaster6809]

​@OfficialNeonAtlantis you can get some pretty good second hand deals

[@AntonioCT-7997]

Bought one for 300 tundralabs from using og vive aswell before

[@snappa_tv]

Just bought an index. I got it because of the kit as if I want to get the new deckard I only will have to get the headset itself and will still have all the tracking and other requirements needed for it

[@sunnylittlefoxy3327]

The controllers can be better on the deckard (new headset there working on) more stable, and better tracking of the fingers i heard

[@osvaldaspaslauskas5040]

@@sunnylittlefoxy3327 yeah but he won’t have to buy the whole gear from beginning again he can do it later on when he has the money of when he feels like it. Slow upgrades and that’s probs what I’ll do.

[@uprising1557]

@@osvaldaspaslauskas5040 it would still be best to buy a cheaper option like an hp reverb g2 and then buy the whole kit when the deckard comes out because you will not only get the potentially updated controllers and lighthouses (if they still use them lol), the superior headset when it comes out, and a very nice headset that saves you a lot of money to hold you off until the deckard comes out.

[@thornfalk]

As a military dood who has had the quest 2 for a few years 1) No wifi ? Get fucked if there's an update 2) Lost all data on my headset (Literally forced to factory reset) because I was over seas with no good wifi when the META/FB change happened and no updates worked without a reset. 3) Games are more expensive on quest, buggier, and the tracking is janky. I regularly drop weapons, throw things without meaning to, or just outright lose hand tracking because of how many hand is. 4) Any game that and a back slot is gonna be super janky. The headset has the tracking so if you're in shape and flexible and reach actually for you back ... Get fucked, you went out of range of the cameras so you're not actually gonna do what you want. 5) It's another way for Facebook /Meta to get data from you and target ads at you .

[@The_Real_Mini]

i factory reseted twice and my data is fine

[@derpsakry4464]

The heavy integration with Facebook is kind of a dealbraker for me. The thing is literally useless without an account.

[@xaviermaczko]

meta basically bricked my rift s with an update, i am NEVER buying from them again

[@Nytrusdeathcyde]

​​@@xaviermaczkooof that sucks sorry to hear that. i personally gave up on fb / meta when they first screwed over rift cv1 early adopters like myself by going back on thair word and forcing a fb account

[@jajoothecoolman]

i was gonna say something but yeah you're entirely right

[@leaningvr]

i just bought a valve index kit and let me tell you its amazing

[@Tekay37]

I bought the Valve Index as my first VR headset just a week ago. The Quest was not an option for me for ideological reasons (facebook). I also wanted to have a headset that uses my PC because I bought that specifically to support VR. So, for my first steps into VR I think the Index was the right choice. I will easily get 1000 hours of fun out of it (1 hour of fun per € is my worth-it-threshold for a VR headset) and I absolutely love the controllers.

[@JLG35X]

what specs do you have on your PC? what games are you interested in playing? Im actually trying to figure out what headset to get and you described the exact situation im going through.

[@Tekay37]

@@JLG35X I've got one of those msi trident PCs with an NVIDIA RTX 2070. So far I played mostly Beat Saber and some "Until you fall". I don't like any of the ego shooters. If someone implements "Jugger" in VR, I'll probably play that.

[@crashdude7589]

@@Tekay37 try out blade and sorcery, and compound

[@ocelotmadness6287]

@@Tekay37 I'm also recommending compound. It's a Wolfenstein kinda shooter and it's a lot of fun

[@Blac-m8d]

Ideological reasons lmao. If you want to keep away from ass companies you wouldn't be on the internet at all

[@crispycornflakes7850]

Deckard is problably just a steam deck vr headset, not a pcvr. It's literally in the name.

[@IndustrialJones]

I had a DOA headset, RMA'd it and then the controller started having issues right away. I ended up getting a refund but I really did love the feel of it. I'm waiting on their next gen version. They really knocked it out of the park with the Steam Deck and I'm hoping a new VR headset gets the same love.

[@MBaderson]

I do genuinely think Valve will learn from a lot of the index, their next headset should be getting a lot of love already and I saw they recently filled new job positions just for it! Just a matter of time now...

[@Xakaion]

When do you think the ETA would be?

[@IndustrialJones]

@@Xakaion I'm thinking/hoping it'll be within the next year or two

[@heldenby]

I returned my Valve Index after the video cable failed. The flexibility of the cable and the way it seems to be forced into the headset under strain seems like a design flaw - certainly many other anecdotes of the same failure. Full refund from Valve with no questions. didn't get the new controllers but they appear to be unreliable as well. Pity, as the display was a nice upgrade from the HTC Vive using the same base stations - and the headphones were excellent - but wouldn't buy again until the design flaws and reliability are fixed. My original HTC Vive has been bullet proof.

[@Squimshii]

Im finally upgrading from a Quest 2 to a Index, and man i am so excited. Quest 2 , when plugged up to a PC, is still extremely buggy and hard to work with. The tracking on the headset has always been a huge issue as well , the headset, though standalone, feels like it cant truly function without a PC. The Valve Index has incredible tracking and reviews , i dont plan on upgrading after this headset since VR isnt something im always on, but im on enough to where this money is sure to be worth it.

[@cloud5281]

Amazing video! Was blown away by the fact that you only had 800 subs, keep up the work and you'll blow up in no time.

[@MBaderson]

Thank you so much! I am glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

[@Petrakeas]

Index still is unbeatable in some aspects: 120hz with light house tracking and that fov, make it super responsive. On top of that, it has extreme customization on the headset and the controllers.

[@chill_octopus_8553]

advice i didn’t know i needed, thanks!

[@southern.pride0]

i say it's absolutely worth it if you get it second hand. you can find some excellent condition ones for 300-500 dollars

[@Doc-randomplay]

Where would be a good place to get it second hand? I've never bought anything that big second hand before and I don't really trust things like ebay or amazon for big things like the index

[@plasmarade]

Here's a comment to tell you that you did a good job as well as increase your engagement metrics on this video so it gets more recommended. Great job 👍, keep up the good work

[@MBaderson]

Nawh, you guys are way too kind to me 😶

[@chmuurkaa3030]

My personal opinion: Don't. History shows that new flagship VR appears at most every 2 years, some being flagship for only few months, and Index is already past the expected expiration date, every day we can expect hopping onto youtube and seeing a thumbnail saying "Index 2 Announced" or something along those lines. Save up your money and wait

[@MBaderson]

The Deckard is getting closer and closer indeed

[@SargonDragon]

What history? What are you talking about? There's a lack of such history in VR gear. These aren't game consoles. There are no established trends.

[@chloe-sunshine7]

@@SargonDragon late reply, but there have been many underground HMDs in the market. That might be what they're talking about. Although, I think if you can get a second hand index with base station 2.0, that's probably your best value if you watch for a bit and get a good deal. Also, if you're buying second hand, often they'll throw in a few accessories which you might be intending to buy anyway. I've seen some with trackers included for a good price, and mine came with the cable management things to hang from the ceiling, and a wall mount.

[@raven3696]

This is Valve we’re talking about. You know damn well they like to take their sweet ass time. As mentioned already, if you can get a second-hand Index at a good deal then why not. Almost 4 years later and it’s still one of the best experiences across the board: Controllers - Highly intuitive and ergonomic. There’s no squeeze trigger but instead you just naturally squeeze with your hands. It feels so much more natural when you get used to it. Each finger is individually tracked, letting you perform more hand gestures like how you would IRL. Speakers - The best built-in speakers I have ever heard on a VR headset to date. In fact, people have been demanding a standalone headset that uses the same speakers from Index. Tracking quality - When it comes to tracking, the Lighthouse system is still better for precision, down to sub-millimeter levels. Inside-out tracking like what Pico 4 and Quest 2 use isn’t as accurate and has to resort to the use of interpolation if the headset loses sight of the controllers. Graphical fidelity - In my past experience with using the Quest 2 for PCVR via Oculus Link (with their official cable), I still do noticed some degradation to image quality from compression artifacts (more notable in high contrast or darker scenes). The Index connects straight to a display port on your graphics card for the best image quality instead data of having to be compressed to fit in a USB line for the Quest 2. Software - Steam is basically your gateway to PCVR gaming. The Index is developed by the same company and so it will integrate with their SteamVR software almost seamlessly. For example I can wirelessly initialize the entire VR setup with the press of a button on one of the Index controllers. The sensors will initialize, SteamVR will automatically turn on and I’m ready to go. It’s these multiple yet small life of quality features that make the Index nicer to use.

[@bbds6956]

I'm just worried about when that new headset comes out what will be announced next. I kinda feel like it'll be Xbox vs Playstation but with VR.

[@Gwen_Dollyn]

i ordered mine yesterday im so excited to finally be in vr again after my rift s broke, the feeling of excitement and happiness is unbeatable

[@MBaderson]

Enjoy!

[@Gwen_Dollyn]

@@MBaderson thank you!!

[@Valtritium2]

What was your first reaction when putting it on?

[@Gwen_Dollyn]

@@Valtritium2 its amazing FOV, theres just glare/bloom cause of the lenses + its pretty heavy and hurts my head pretty fast, but overall its a good quality headset that definitely had it's pros and cons

[@nuggsy7085]

Great video, I was recently looking into getting a vr headset that had full finger tracking and whatnot for more immersive experiences. Also, the childish thought of flipping friends off in VRchat was strong. Idk if any of the other headsets have them, I have the quest 2 but as far as I know it only tracks like the first finger and thumbs. A thousand dollars seemed really steep however so I figured I'd look around and see if it was better to wait. This was a really well put together video that gave me all the info I needed, going to wait a bit and see what comes up.

[@MBaderson]

Its the small things that make something that much more enticing to buy, but I am glad you got what you needed from the video! I might touch up on this subject in the near future to really compare the options while waiting for Valve to do anything haha

[@EnzoDragon1]

I'm glad that I have watched this video after buying this headset. (Pre-owned from Gamestop) I had my Quest 2 for about a year now and the Quest has been not working me as well as it has been. The microphone for it has decided to not work for me anymore, (As of today) and it doesn't want to update or want to connect to my pc. (I had to unplug my cable about 7 times and I have been through two link cables). Can't wait for my valve index to come! Small note: I used to own a Rift S headset before the Quest 2. This is def a great upgrade.

[@MBaderson]

Enjoy the Index!

[@MrLeGeNdCast]

4:45 I KNOW! THAT'S WHY IM HERE!

[@lightswitch8248]

Good video! I believe you should have also mentioned how the valve support team can be very inconsistent when getting a RMA for any of the valve index products in terms of whether they will help you or not. I hope valve's next vr headset will be just as good as the last. also if you want to get full body tracking for this headset I would highly recommend it since it pairs well with the knuckle controllers.

[@MBaderson]

Glad you enjoyed the video! It honestly didn't cross my mind as I myself never had to deal with it but my bad for excluding it, thank you for the reminder! Also; I have had FBT for a couple of years now and I agree! it goes so well with the index setup!

[@jeffstrains4014]

I read Valve has canceled all vr development moving forward.

[@Mastervoliumpl]

Amazing video! I've been looking into buying any VR headset recently as I've gotten the pleasure to try VR for my first time. These past 2 weeks I've been heavily considering the Valve Index but never actually pushed the button cause I was unsure. If I get into VR I would love to get the flagship experience. I was also sacred if I buy the Index now that the new headset releases and I would have wasted my money, especially if it costs around the same amount of money. I'm still unsure If I should wait with going into VR until the new Deckard releases or to try and get something now. This video really came in clutch though! Great job!

[@MBaderson]

Glad to hear it helped you out a bit! Due to the nature of Valve and their announcements I sadly cannot confirm when their new headset will release but they recently hired a bunch of staff for the last stage of development and I am sure it will not be too long before we at least hear what is up... You could try to get into VR for now if you cannot wait with something like a Quest 2 or Pico 4 as that costs a lot less but I am sure you can find your way through it!

[@Nobody-Nowhere]

Index has way too low resolution. It has only 2Mp resolution. Its only half of basically anything out there now. Like Pico 4 has 4.6Mp, way higher resolution.

[@craigforrester4348]

@@Nobody-NowhereYou will have to have a 4080 or 4090 to push those high resolution. I just returned a G2. While it was beautiful it was too quirky seeing how I am coming from the OG Vive. My laptop is top end (Asus M16 with i9 and 3070ti). So for performance I believe the Index will be able to use the resolution better than I would have been able to on the G2.

[@ReckerFidelWOLF]

Just purchased the index kit yesterday waiting for its delivery I am pumped and excited for it because I don't plan to upgrade rigs at all, comes with the controllers and the sensors is all I needed and I was recommended them by my modeller

[@MBaderson]

That's awesome to hear! Enjoy the Index, it has definitely been good to me personally and is still a solid device to this day!

[@ReckerFidelWOLF]

@@MBaderson I will! Thank you this will be my early birthday treat lol

[@RW1A]

I hope the index gets a little price drop somewhere in time because I'll probably get an index sometime in the future

[@MBaderson]

If it got a little price drop that would be really nice! But if you are in the market for a headset in like next year, you might be interested in Valve's next project, but ofcourse when that gets announced is a mystery (classic Valve)

[@joko49perez]

You can buy used! If you're worried about the facial interface being used by another person (you really shouldn't worry tho) then you can just change it for cheap. I've seen full kits for 750.

[@blackphysicalexperimentation]

ITS a great piece

[@tykl-]

Great video! Subscribed :)

[@MBaderson]

Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@vincentprice713]

I been playing my htc valve since 2017 and I just ordered the index today.

[@MBaderson]

Nice one! You'll love it!

[@creativohugo]

bought a second hand one, and the one reason it was worth it for me is because to this day it is still the best full body tracking solution out there, anything else in the market is either unreliable, still in development, half as expensive but also half as good or plain unavailable. I'll be looking forward to the day a more modern and reliable option is out there but for now if you like dancing or moving with your full body it is still the best option in the market there is.

[@Burbread]

And the best feature: The controllers brake if you drop them from 6 feet and the dead display, the dead cable, the glue that holds the lenses in place melts away and we can of course not forget the red light of deth on the trackers/sensors

[@SlavicUnionGaming]

they should lower the price to 500 for this poor product reliability

[@BreakingFuse]

Wouldn't be surprised to see a new Index come out soon with base stationed - wireless hybrid capability

[@mini-monke-vr]

I have a 2016 vive (used) that I got a few months back after my oculus quest 2, Honestly I cannot wait to upgrade to the valve index. RN I am considering buying a used index with new controllers and videos like these are helping me justify upgrading.

[@atimholt]

I recently finally got into VR, but I bought the HP Reverb G2 (v.2). Same built-in headphones, and crazy good resolution. Plus, I play in the living room, so I have to move the PC around daily-base stations would have been more particularly inconvenient.

[@MBaderson]

Reverb G2 is a good one indeed! You got a beast of a start in VR then, hope you are enjoying it!

[@harri7416]

The content I was looking for - thanks.

[@Pahchii]

I'm currently looking around at buying a PC VR headset and honestly, I keep on coming back to the index and remembering it's 4 years old at this point and they might release a new version soon... so i'm just gonna hold on out until then.

[@MBaderson]

Always tricky to decide with Valve, you really cannot say for sure when they will release the successor and the Index is a solid headset even by today's standards. I would say the if you wait, the wait will be well worth it but don't let a good deal on the Index get past you without some thought! I have heard of many getting insane prices for this gem :3

[@Pahchii]

​@@MBaderson right now it's not really the money that's the issue for my part.. I could order a index right now this very moment. It's just that I've been in the position where I've bought something that I expect to last for a long time, only for the same company to release the next version weeks or months later, making my purchase feel obsolete and feels too expensive to upgrade so shortly after.. I've never owned a vr headset, and my only experience is the first htc vive.. besides that I could see the individual pixles, it absolutely blew my mind and I've never been so immersed. If it wasn't for the fact that the company I worked for at the time owned it, and that it was set up in a huge conference room where people often frequented I'd probably use it a lot more.. I know that the index is leaps and bounds better, but I'm just waiting for the technology to mature to have my mind completely blown.. sorry about the wall of text, just needed to rant my heart out :)

[@JSnyder3333]

@@Pahchii Don’t let the sunk cost fallacy put you off buying VR. You need to ask yourself if you will enjoy using VR and if you can afford to to purchase it. Don’t borrow worry from the future, and don’t let possible future events deprive you of pleasure today. Would you decide not to swim in the ocean because there might be sharks? Would you prevent your child from playing youth sports because of possible injury? Do you avoid motor vehicle travel because you might die in an accident?

[@Parzeval]

Third! been waiting for the Index Video, so cewl it's finally here!

[@briank3754]

The only thing that makes the Index outdated in 2025 are the lenses and resolution. I don’t even own one, but it the best of the best in many ways. An index with pancake or aspheric lenses and a Big Screen beyond level display and the Index would be right back on top. With new lense tech I would buy one so I could use it in the flight sim and still have a nice room scale experience for the occasional Beat Saber session.

[@DomExists]

I just got one and yea, finally upgrading from my rift cv1 after 5 years made it even better. Side note I’ve used the quest multiple times wired and I do not like it

[@demi5148]

New headset here I come! Need an upgrade anyways lol I've been looking at that headset ever since you first got FBT for it, but I think I'll wait to see what the soon to be competition will be. Awesome video as always Michael! ❤

[@MBaderson]

Cannot wait for more of valve and such!

[@fatguy9]

I sold my pc/index when it was out of stock for more than I paid new but im ready to buy a index+deck headset im hoping they announce it when the quest 3 is released next year

[@ananuvella]

quest 3 is released in 2022?

[@fatguy9]

@@ananuvella next year*

[@OmniVenom]

Oops, I didn't wait and I bought the Inex I also may add, I never owned a VR headset nor I ever played VR before.

[@Xplici_T]

Did you regret it or are you happy with it?

[@RabbitConfirmed]

If only they would up the resolution and fix the godrays issue. Then it would actually be still worth it today.

[@Donesyboy]

I've had mine for about two years and somehow have not had any issues. I have had the G2 for about a year and ran into so many issues, but I think I just can't take inside out tracking vs the base stations.

[@cadenmohlman8120]

I have t gotten it yet but I think I’m going to get it 145 hz at max and half life and insane graphics plus finger tracking is going to be the best

[@varenzer_h8jk425]

Well if the Valve Index price became half as much

[@CraigMansfield]

I had an Index. I couldn't get it to fit comfortably on my head. The sweet spot on the display seemed poor. The image quality was disappointing (I ran back to my Rift S). Having come from an Oculus CV1, I was disappointed with the speakers. I loved the knuckles, but I didn't like the whining noise which came from the lighthouses. Overall for something that I was massively looking forward to, I was quite disappointed with it. The field of view was good, especially in height. I regret not playing Half Life Alyx on it before I sold it. So for what you can do with a Quest II, and the Pico, and for what's coming up ..... As much as I love Valve, I wouldn't recommend the Index at all. However, Valve did an incredible job of getting that into production, and an astounding job of making Half Life Alyx. And I'd love to support them by buying their next headset.

[@commiedog425]

looking into getting a pc vr headset do you think the controlers for the valve are enough of a reason to ditch the idea of getting a vive pro?

[@MBaderson]

You could try to mix and match by purchasing the Index controllers separately and getting a Vive pro for the visuals. If we are talking about the full package then yes I think it is well worth getting the Index instead. The vive wands don't hold a candle to the Index controllers imo and are a solid reason to think about the set.

[@commiedog425]

@@MBaderson thank you so much I think that's what I'm going to do

[@sixesandcrucifixes]

as someone who just upgraded from Rift S its definitely worth it

[@titoubou]

lol just bought one yes i wish the price was a bit lower after all these years But i think it will be upgradable in the future

[@EmM-ko7mu]

the vive focus might be worth buying instead of the index but youd need to pay extra for the cables for pc. 1300£ not sure if its worth the upgrade from index

[@professormadlad7773]

Im saving up my money for the Somnium one VR headset.

[@Crossfirev]

I am sorry, but this must be said. The amount of missed shots you had in the background footage is absolutely insane lmao

[@MBaderson]

Very true, I don't know what I was doing there hahaha

[@TikkaQrow]

It's 3 year old tech with 4 year old washed out LCD displays. It set the bar, last generation, but with Pico 4 Pro, Quest Pro, Pimax crystal, it really is starting to show it's age.

[@MBaderson]

It is a lot of money these days for what you can otherwise get with that same amount

[@Em.P14]

I got a vive with index knuckles and look for an upgrade, sadly they don't sell it without the knuckles

[@MBaderson]

Do you mean the valve index on its own? You can get just the headset without the controllers on Steam! If you look at the store page for all Valve Index hardware there is an option to just buy the headset alone :)

[@Em.P14]

@@MBaderson jeah that one says out of stock since years. But the set, basestations or controllers are all in stock. I'd buy headset and basestations but leave the controllers as i do have mine already so that i could have 1 full vive and 1 full index set, sadly like how it is now i will end up with a 2. set of knuckles that i don't need and im not that kind of guy who sells stuff on ebay or so. I did ask my friends if they would want a 50%off set of knuckles but they either dont got vr or the wrong type. I guess then ill have a spare pair if mine break down due to too much gorn or whatever im gonna sink time in

[@TheLavoix]

My birthday is coming up on June 30th, and I've asked for the Valve Index as a gift. I've had some experience with VR headsets, owning the Oculus Quest 1 for a year after its release and then the Meta Quest 2 for two years. With the Deckard releasing soon, I'm not sure if asking for the Index was the right choice. What do you think?

[@MBaderson]

Happy birthday in advance! I think the Index is still a really nice birthday gift! It's not clear when the successor to the index will release and in this short time span the original index is a solid headset still, something I use daily even today. No mistakes made I think with asking for a really nice pcvr headset for your birthday and worst case scenario you will love it for a while and save up for the deckard when that comes out :3

[@TheLavoix]

@@MBaderson Thank you!

[@Justin-og9gu]

Bought a G2 a few weeks ago, but I was unsatisfied with the tracking and software issues so I bought an Index and will be returning G2 when it gets here. I think people who tell people looking to get into VR to not buy an Index today are missing 3 important facts that I've learned through extensive research. 1. The phrase "New headsets are coming." doesn't mean anything. I found posts from 2 years, even THREE years ago of people telling others not to buy an Index because those new headsets are just around the corner! They always either never launch, or end up being disappointing products that don't really compete with the Index. If Deckard is coming, its probably not getting here til 2024 maybe later, that's a LONG time to wait to play games. 2. There's no other made-for-PCVR headset that really competes. Sure I could get a Pimax, pay the same and worry about the quality control and software issues. I can get a Quest 2 pay less and deal with video compression and audio replacements and the need for 1000 accessories. Or I can get an Index and have everything I need working out of the box. 3. The games you're bored of is our backlog. It may not feel like a lot over the course of the 3 years you've had the headset but there A LOT of great VR games we newbies have to play. I've spent this entire week just playing H3VR and that wasn't even on my list, it will take me at least a year to put a dent in the actual list.

[@glitterfel-flame6672]

I'm looking to upgrade from my OG "Oculus" Quest, to the index, partly because I'm done with "Meta" and partly because I want a newer PC VR headset, and the Index (according to friends that own both) is better them something like that HTC Vive Pro 2, and if I'm possibly spending 1k+ on a VR headset, I want it to be worth the money.

[@MBaderson]

Truly a big upgrade from an original Quest! I would recommend looking for refurbished units if the budget can be somewhat tight but I also still find my own investment into an index well worth every penny, definitely a big step up regardless

[@froeks]

very curious to see what the new valve headset will bring

[@MBaderson]

I am hopping on that hype train so hard when we hear more about that Deckard!!

[@zagaraone8653]

I do not have an VR. Was just considering, and making some research. Now ... i'll just wait. (o:

[@gargoyled_drake]

i feel like the first first 5 seconds and first line is the key factor of the state of the VR industry right now. "We all know it as the flag ship of VR headsets of it's time" Let's just let that rest for a second... "Of it's time" yes. It's been 5 years since the release. No price difference. Not a single sales or discount period. Not even for people wishlisting it for a specific amount of time. People are clearly interested in VR. But not interested in wasting money on the META arm-chip headsets and not able to throw away the 1000,- for the valve index. So what happened and what happens to VR? Well. The VR industry did one simple thing wrong. They thought they'd change the name of the game and market. And try and create a market that made profit from the hardware rather than the games. Like all other consoles within the video game industry does. It's the way it's always been done. Sell the console without profit and without loss. But make profit off of the games. This strategy has shown to be somewhat of a bad decision from the players in the VR industry. Valve, META, Microsoft and so on. The VR industry hit a stale in sales and now the active users of VR is dropping. And game purchases are dropping as well. The entire industry is losing backings and sponsors as the numbers and statistics looks like there is not interest in VR. But the numbers lie. People don't purchase hardware for companies to profit. And probably that will never be the case neither. As this is the result of the attempt of doing so. What could bring VR active user statistics up and have already existing users regain interest in VR would be to sell the headsets cheaper. Have more people have access to them and there by increase the numbers of players in already existing games. And instantly make it more interesting for sponsors, shareholders and what not. Right now. It's stale and not much will happen. Those that haven't paid the €1000,- price for the valve index yet. Won't do it now either. It's also not a question of when people can afford it. People will straight up not pay that price for 5 year old hardware. No matter how much you tell them that, that hardware is still valid and good.

[@gargoyled_drake]

i think half the price is where they should aim to reach. If they could sell the valve index at around €480,- They'd see a high increase of not just purchases. But also active players and customers for VR games. But if it isn't done before 2025. Then we are talking at even lower prices. The longer they wait with lowering the prices. The lower price they'll have to go for. To make it make sense for people. Business don't dare to take these "risks" as they don't believe in them. But it's clear that people will pay €480,- for consoles. So surely VR headsets should be treated just like consoles.

[@indy2l]

I have a PSVR, and now i entered the VR thing i want to take a big step and buy the Valve Index. But i'm still not sure. I just want good quality.

[@MBaderson]

If you are talking about the PSVR1 and not the one that just came out, then I believe buying anything else would up your experience. A valve index is a costly endeavor but definitely checks a lot of boxes in terms of its features and general value. If you are unsure you can always try to test one out at a friend's house or maybe aim for a little lower tier headset. If you do, however, own a PSVR2 then I don't know what to say, because that headset in itself is really good already!

[@indy2l]

@@MBaderson Is there gaming clubs where you can try the Valve Index? I would try. I don't want to buy the PSVR 2 yet, because i want to play PC VR, there are many more games. Especially Half-Life: Alyx. This is the main reason i want PC VR. Thanks for the idea!

[@MBaderson]

@@indy2l Hmmm I wouldn't know of any clubs like that but it is always worth a look! Otherwise considering some second-hand options may also be an idea if you don't want to spend too much bank as of yet

[@CyberDiver91]

Honestly, I'm fine with buying an Index to upgrade from my Oculus Quest, the original one, as I just want a straightforward PC VR headset. If Valve launches a new VR set after I buy an Index, cool. I'll get one if the Index fails on me. If they launch it before I have the money saved up, cool, I'll just buy the new one. All in all, I just don't want to deal with Facebook shenanigans anymore.

[@MBaderson]

Solid reasoning, solid upgrade as well from the Quest 1! We'll see what Valve brings in the future but for now the Index is still a solid PCVR headset

[@ynord6994]

clean the ball of the thumbstick..of all controllers..as deep as possible..using a q-tip with glass cleaner etc. Will remove most problems with "thumb stick drift". Just saying :)

[@mangakey]

It is but not as much as it used to be...... The thing about the index is new headset do beat it in 1-2 things but the index will still beat them in like 4-6 in turn.. So it's still all around the best.. The problem is that it's for 4 years old and resolution and lens are showing their age.. Also is that since it's still the best all round headset even used prices are still pretty high I see them going for around 650$ on the low end to 900$ on the high end and valve never really dropped the price of the headset.

[@trundenthebad]

At this point, staying at the same price for 3 years is a huge price drop.

[@MBaderson]

This is kind of true yeah... Especially with the recent higher pricing of new headsets this still holds its own in that category

[@ZEUSGTISMONKEY]

What is that archery game you where playing around the middle of the video

[@MBaderson]

It's the archery parts of the Valve VR demonstration game "The Lab", as was a lot of the other B-roll for it

[@ZEUSGTISMONKEY]

@@MBaderson ok thank you

[@Aelethil]

short answer: yes long answer: yes but be patient the DECKARD is gonna do for vr what the index did for vr again

[@MBaderson]

The Dackard is going to be insane!

[@HybridLyfe]

i subbed and i been wanting to get the valve index maybe i can wait for a newer fancier one

[@MBaderson]

Just a little longer and we will see a lot of new headsets pop up!

[@howtomoderate]

A year later. I ordered one selling csgo cases lol. That deckard isn't coming out anytime soon so I'll do with selling this on eBay for half the price when it is finally released.

[@twicedyinger]

Thought I'd ask here. I found a Valve Index for 600 dollars with all the things included such as Base stations, Controllers and of course the Valve Index itself. I already have an Oculus 2 though I have all my games on Steam and I really only use Steam for games. Should I switch out my Quest 2 for a Valve Index?

[@MBaderson]

That all depends on how much you really only play on the PCVR side of things, if that is your go-to I would always recommend a Valve Index kit for that price especially! It would certainly be an upgrade over the Quest 2 when it comes to PCVR, though if you want to sell your Quest to buy one you would need to be okay with not having any standalone VR options for a while

[@MayhexxGT]

I know their site is selling them new for a grand.. but I can pick up a secondhand one for $600 locally, and I think I'm gonna

[@MBaderson]

Second hand is a good option to save some money for sure!

[@MayhexxGT]

@@MBaderson i think im gonna do it 😂 i hate the tunnel vision feelkig on my quest and I would really love an upgrade, plus I want to get tundra trackers.

[@MBaderson]

@@MayhexxGT If you want to do it then go for it! It would definitely be a serious step into PCVR specifically! :) Hope you will have great fun with your newly aquired headset and maybe I will see you at the next video!

[@MayhexxGT]

@@MBaderson i appreciate it! the quest left a lot lacking for me so im really looking forward to it

[@Timerin]

I personally bought my first vr headset 2 years ago, it was a used rift s, i actually in the start had a lot of problems getting it to start, software issues, issues with plugging in the headset (cuz it bugged sometimes) and also crashes, but after i found a fix for all of thoose problems, i actually got pretty used to the experience on the rift s. i never tried the index, so i don't know how different it is, the only thing i know is, i bought a hand strap to my rift s, and since then never craved for more, so you really don't need to go for the index if you don't want to spend too much money

[@handlebarista222]

that's a good take

[@idcrafter-cgi]

the index is still the best VR headset for Linux VR gaming, and if you are crazy can you even play using a steamdeck

[@kilroy987]

I have a Quest 2 and HP Reverb G2. I'm perfectly fine with them for now. I have no need for a Valve Index, and frankly I think it's a hefty price for entry into VR, especially when it only offers 1600p in its visuals now. It's also technically complex, requiring the installation of base stations. I am curious what the next Valve entry in VR will be, though.

[@Thezuule1]

At this point the only thing the Index has going for it is FOV, and even that is a double edged sword with the quality of the display out near the far edges. Every other feature of the headset has either been bested by another headset or can easily be added with accessories. Still a good headset but buying one now with all the other options available and those still coming seems a bit insane to me.

[@blenderalien]

For me it is the sum of the parts. I have a Quest 2, a Reverb G1 and the Index. The sound, the fov, the comfort, the on point panels with on point stereo vision (the Reverb is a little off), the native steamvr integration through DP without compression and needlessly complicated software stacks, the superb tracking method and the controllers makes me use it over any other headset I have, even for text heavy tasks Like Flightsims (DCS)

[@zeezeerhydon7083]

I would wait for a wireless, pc, fingered controller headset, but I've had this OG HTC Vive for 3 years now. I've replaced both base stations and now the controller pads are starting to get worn out. I'm tired of not being the chad in vrchat that has full body tracking, fingers, and eye tracking. The waiting is killing me and the headset is definitely getting bland. I need a change of scenery and I'd really like to play vr games with my brother sometimes. Here's saying goodbye to $1,500. P.S. I got my htc vive used 3 years ago and the only issues i've had with it were base station related. For first timers that want a budget pc only headset I'd totally recommend the og htc vive. Though understand there is not upgradeability like there is for the vive pro.

[@myriri3687]

Problem with wait is "how long?"

[@MBaderson]

With Valve you really never know until they truly announce something... We can only speculate but man would I love that Deckard to be announced already

[@bumbaclot813]

i think ill wait a little bit. good advice.

[@dharkbizkit]

a year later and still nothing.. and if rumors are something to go by, then it will be a standalone headset, the big question then is: displayport or usb? because iam not taking compression over wireless or anything else. i just cant stand it. but srsly, valve should have reduced the price of the hmd alone by 200 bucks now. me and my wife currently weighin the options. but what makes me hasitate, is the SDE on the index.

[@MBaderson]

So far I would not bet on anything with the new Deckard, it always is a gamble waiting for Valve hardware... It does seem like it will be a sort of dedicated console-standalone hybrid that will use wireless streaming to achieve its goals but seeing the Steam Link get better and better I can assure you that compression artifacts are getting more and more rare, especially if the headset is tethered to a dedicated console that has only that one purpose, but only time will tell. For now maybe wait a little longer or just cut the knot on a headset of choice... I will be doing a sort of revamp of this video soon with all the new hardware out today and focussing on the Quest 3 but we'll see if it brings a little more light to the situation

[@dharkbizkit]

its always a matter of sensesivity and the the trained eye in combination. a friend of mine, that had a rift s before and now got himself a quest3 was blown away. he said theres no SDE and no compression. after we meet and i tried it, first thing i saw was SDE and compression even on 940mbit link cable. granted, i tested skyrim on his rig, because i know, that trees, leafs etc are the bane of compression. i gave it back to him, he didnt see it. @@MBaderson

[@mrmurdock6994]

yes it is. Index is a full vr package with the best techs out there. plus it allows mods.

[@saitama9529]

I want to wait more for the new headset that value have but I still no confirmation by the company 😭 but I’ll be patient.. I hope that value index

[@JayMaverick]

7 months ago it maybe made sense to buy a new Index. Now though, it's better to wait for Valve's next HMD, or get a Beyond or Varjo Aero. For me, the wire is a deal breaker.

[@Paiskii]

I’m sorry, but you cannot say “don’t get the index, get the aero or beyond” when both of those HMDs cost a grand on their own. 1,000 is already steep, no need to add another 5-600 onto it for most people.

[@joakimkn1]

Wait has alway been the VR case. Dev's goin sloooooow

[@Charlatan-wn6ir]

Just ordered my index and got a pulley system to help with the cable managment now lets just hope that the controllers last xd

[@MBaderson]

Honestly, you'll be alright! The index is still an amazing headset and I managed to spend over 2000+ hours in it without any RMA necessary for my specific situation!

[@Charlatan-wn6ir]

@@MBaderson glad to hear that, had a vive a year ago but sold it so this will be a major upgrade

[@Itsallgoodtogo]

Once you try out the 2x2k resolution headsets with pancake lenses ... I can live without the accurate finger tracking for a while. Resolution+wire is the only thing that is breaking the immersion for me on the index.

[@trytimesouls8977]

i could get a new one for half of the price. but all the news of the" index2" make IT difficult to decide :(

[@coenicorn]

Cool vid… But are you dutch by any chance

[@MBaderson]

I am! Zo zie je maar weer dat Nederlanders onder elkaar ieder herkennen!

[@gainsaver5972]

I waited 1 year!!!! WHAT HEADSET SHOULD I BUY NOW PLEASE!

[@SlavicUnionGaming]

the better option I recommend is to buy the HTC VIVE cosmos elite, then replace the VIVE controllers with VALVE INDEX controllers, and you basically got a decently cheap fully functioning tracking and realistic controller but for half the price. also the reliability issue is mostly gone since you have a headset that is not going to break on you as easily.

[@BaconheartStuff]

How much does an Index and a Vive Cosmos Elite cost where you are? I'm in Australia and have been looking at VR stuff recently, a Valve Index complete kit (headset, pair of controllers and two base stations) is $1900AU and a Vive Cosmos Elite set is $1700.

[@firewingphoenix8078]

@@BaconheartStuff the cosmos elite is a dogshit headset, trust me. Vive cosmos is awful, please for the love of god dont fall for it.

[@Mattero_Gang]

Do i need the Basisstation for the headset because I just wana buy the controllers and the headset but do i need the Basisstation for it

[@MBaderson]

Yes. You will need the basestations (Either 1.0 or 2.0 version, both are compatible) to run the headset and controllers. This system relies on that tracking and will otherwise not work

[@Mattero_Gang]

@@MBaderson so the finger tracking and the headset will only work when I got the thing

[@MBaderson]

@@Mattero_Gang To get the Knuckles Controllers and the Index Headset to track in your virtual space, you will need to have the Basestations as well. These can be either the 1.0 or the 2.0 versions as both are compatible, for further info I suggest you google around a bit if you are still having questions

[@Mattero_Gang]

@@MBaderson so I need a barista tip to play and track my fingers and I need it that I don’t need to jump sommere in the gam

[@sockervad]

I just bought a used index for 607$ here in sweden and im going from a oculus CV1 to the index 😅 gonna be quite the leap in both tech and quality 😁

[@Trippsy05]

I'm going to be going from a Rift S. If you've got it yet, how does the FOV compare? Something I was disappointed with when getting into VR was my Rift S looks like I'm staring down a pipe. I don't have any way to try other headsets so I'm just hoping the index lets me have more peripheral vision.

[@sockervad]

@@Trippsy05It's better, you will see a difference ^^ the quality of each eye is what is impressing me the most

[@majura3743]

I’m in a weird spot for vr. I don’t want a stand-alone, (I will only use steam vr) and I don’t trust Facebook enough to buy oculus. but all of the pc vr headsets are far out of my price range. My ideal headset would be the index, so I’m hoping it reduces in price when the deckard releases lol.

[@MBaderson]

That sounds tricky but I doubt the Index will reduce much, you might get good 2nd hand options but you could also have a look at the Reverb G2 or maybe even DPVR E4 (Though no idea how that is)

[@CraigMansfield]

@@MBaderson DPVR is chatty.

[@MBaderson]

@@CraigMansfield Been hearing a lot of bad stuff about it to be honest... sad, because I didn't mind more companies looking into the PCVR-only side of things

[@britefeather]

Although if you consider inflation, the price has come down some.

[@MBaderson]

This is true

[@chan13153]

You can literally get four Quest 2's or two Quest 3's for the price of one index. Index: $1000, 1600p, base stations, heavy, only tethered, fresnel lens, 144hz LCD. Quest 2: $250, 1920p, inside out tracking, Stand alone Xr2, Wifi 6 wireless/wired PCVR, 120hz, LCD, Fresnel lens Quest 3: $500, 2200p, Ringless inside out racking, Pancake Lens, Stand lone XR2 Gen 2, Wifi 6e Wireless/wired PCVR. Colored Camera, Mixed reality. 120hz. At this point Index for $1000 is a ripoff.

[@ShieldLover22]

MOAR ALGORITHM BOOSTS!!

[@MBaderson]

😂

[@hhhhhhhhhhhhhnhhhhhhh]

Just deleted my entire essay on my choices and motivations for something irrelevant then thanking valve directly for making this headset. Do thank me.

[@MrJr1976]

It's very hard to justify the headset for $1k especially when the Q2 existed at the time of recording. A headset which can wirelessly connect to the PC with a 120hz refresh rate at half the price. Get an $80 battery strap, some decent headphones, and you have a headset to rival all others. I have always hated the lighthouses. If I wanted to move my playspace from my office to the living room, I had to bring the lighthouses as well and it would take like 20 mins. With the Q2, I just move and then draw a new boundary. I now regularly use my Q2 while in bed to enjoy some videos before sleeping or gaming in ghe morning. This us over wifi where I'm 20ft away from my PC in a different room. I've played Contractors, Fo4VR, etc and have never found the tracking to be an issue. I give the finger tracking to Valve for now, but a headset with higher resolution and equal refresh rate being 100% wireless and at basically HALF the price makes the Index a hard pass from me. Even if the Index hits the used market for like $300, I'm still wary as it's a wired headset with lighthouses and I HATE them.

[@MBaderson]

I see a common theme among people who really enjoy using the portability of something like the Quest 2 and other standalone choices, I totally understand, it is very freeing and not to mention, immersive if you can untether yourself from that leash and play space. For me, specifically, the Index is still a winner but only because I don't move anywhere else and with my current setup it has no issues for my personal situation (More on personal problems later today in a new video meant for a handful of people haha), but with the Quest 3 on the horizon for instance, it is only a matter of time before there just isn't much left to be desired of the original (Now 4 year old) Valve Index... Thanks for watching! Hope it at least gave some insight in the headset market even today :3

[@Night_sky1161]

how much did you spent on this headset after you bought it ?

[@MBaderson]

I spent nothing extra after I bought it, I seem to be a lucky one in terms of what would break with others did not break with mine. Then again, I do handle my headset like an origami art piece made of gold foil so that probably helped prolong any problems

[@Night_sky1161]

@@MBaderson I usually do the same but I was just wondering thanks

[@HyperdriveStudios20]

well i just bought the s.o.b and id say well eh ya but its way better than the hpreverb g2, vive, and the quest 2 aside from it not being stand alone without a doubt

[@MBaderson]

It's an awesome headset! There is a reason I still use it to this day, but I don't think it will be much longer for Valve to release the follow up of it :3

[@37Kilo2]

I don't understand how, 4 years later, the Index is still $1000. Also, VR has been in the mainstream for close to 10 years now, and it's still niche. There's not enough range in the software catalog; it's all derivative and gimmicky. I worry that VR will never break out from it's niche box.

[@xmrkosa_3247]

name music in 2:40?

[@MBaderson]

'Ambient Gold' from the 'Streambeats' library by Harris Heller

[@LARVideos]

I feel like the Quest Pro's controllers have the true best solution for controller tracking. Inside out tracking on the headset already solved the occlusion issues that base stations/stationary cameras have due to their static nature, and now the same thing has happened to the controllers. The basestation tracking of the index and the controller tracking the Quest 2 does from the cameras had both had their benefits and weaknesses. Inside out headset based controller tracking had areas where the cameras couldn't see. Like behind your shoulders or behind your back. Not to mention controllers can occlude each other. But so did static sensor tracking. People like to act like it's so much better than inside out, but it also had issues with occlusion. They just aren't as noticeable most of the time unless you have a really small room with a lot of stuff in the way. The controllers tracking themselves means that they will never lose tracking since they are doing all the hard stuff themselves and just sending the position data. That's genius, in my opinion. There's literally no place where you can move them where they can't track themselves anymore.

[@binhnham2512]

I seem to be loosing tracking all the time on the quest pro. It’s very frustrating. I’ll lose tracking with my hands right in front of me.

[@doctorizzy4847]

I've been taking a look at all the different headsets out there right now, and at this point I'm thinking that getting a Pico4 for my partner for xmas is a good budget option. The Index, while amazing, is a massive investment to make when more flagship hardware is just around the corner. Currently we're sharing a Oculus Quest 1 and that's serving us both really well, going with a Pico4 and then waiting a few months/till next xmas to see what releases for a *big* investment seems like a decent enough plan. When the Index first came out, nothing really compared, but it also came out right as Crypto/GPU market was getting bad and it was hard to upgrade to that level of PC to support it. Which really killed my ability to get an Index at launch. Fantastic Vid! Found you through your H3VR video and enjoying the hell out of your content.

[@MBaderson]

A pico 4 is for sure a viable cost effective way of upgrading right now, and it would definitely be a step up from the Quest 1. The index indeed was something that required quite the hardware for a time when good PC hardware was indeed relatively hard to find, I do have faith in future next gen headsets though and the patience will most likely pay off well! (I heard Split Rendering and DFR will make a proper introduction) I am so glad to hear you are enjoying the content! And maybe I can show you what that new generation of hardware will be like when that is out!

[@sledge2105]

@@MBaderson let chins spy on you