Is There A Rainforest In West Virginia?

[@AtlasPro1]

Sorry about the apparent reupload from earlier today, what was posted was a mistake, an unfinished draft that still had some unfinished graphics. This is the final and proper version! Anyway, enjoy!

[@user-lw3wl4ps7z]

Oh, so you're telling me I have to watch this video again?! Ok, fiiiiiiine. Stop twisting my arm. ;)

[@DecadeAgoGaming]

Honestly i didn't even notice

[@remconet]

@@AtlasPro1 I noticed it one time, but immediately forgot about it afterwards.

[@TristanCorbishley-yf3bq]

I forgive.

[@isaacthedestroyerofstuped7676]

Of course this video would get finished during what is likely the worst drought in WV history

[@kitchentroll5868]

What is difficult to see is that almost the entirety of West Virginia was strip-logged in the early part of the 20th century. I am 62 now, but when I was 8 or 9, the forests of most of WV looked pretty threadbare. I am pretty confident that most of what comprises the canopy of a typical WV forest now is very little like it was formerly. From what I remember being said by my great great grandfather, the forests were mostly white oak and everything else made up the understory. This change of composition does not change your statement that there is temperate rain forest biome in my home state, but I can only imagine the sort of diversity you might have found on your walk if it were 1824 instead of 2024. You might have even caught sight of a mountain bison or even an (original) eastern elk.

[@tdude3212]

I think that American Chestnut would have been one of the dominant tree species in WV, as it would have been prior to the blight.

[@TheRagingPlatypus]

CathedralmSt. Park is the only stand of old growth forest in WV I know of and it's small. It wasn't logged due to a mapping error and wasn't assigned to any logging company.

[@Danny_Does_Drawings]

@@tdude3212chestnut were only dominant in some areas. White oak dominance was the majority of the eastern forests.

[@mywatch81]

@@TheRagingPlatypusThere is another stand of old growth at Gaudineer Knob, not far from Kumbrabow where this video was filmed.

[@ET27]

Love hearing stories like this about how incredible and diverse the America’s were before not only the effects of colonialism but also the idustrial revolution and the ramifications it still has on us today. Its not something that’s talked about enough. Thank you so much for sharing!

[@TylerDavidDiatomBrock]

Hi, Atlas Pro! I'm a Biology PhD candidate who specializes in salamanders (as well as SE USA herpetofauna in general), so I figured I'd take up your call to action. Here's a timestamped list of all salamanders shown in the video with the best ID I can give them, including the graphics at the end of each section. Hope this helps! Whiteside Mountain; Chattooga River drainage (very important for Dusky ID in NC) 12:00 Dusky Salamander (Desmognathus sp.); young metamorph Chattooga Dusky (D. perlapsus) or Seal (D. monticola) 12:12 Newt (Notophthalmus viridescens); eft 12:49 Dusky Salamander (Desmognathus sp.); either Chattooga Dusky (D. perlapsus) or Seal (D. monticola) 12:53 Dusky Salamander (Desmognathus sp.); not Ravine Salamander (Plethodon richmondi); ravines don't range into Nantahala; D. perlapsus? 12:55 Dusky Salamander (Desmognathus sp.); small size & red color point to Seepage Salamander (D. aeneus), but can't say for sure. Additionally, the local redbacks would be Southern Redbacks (Plethodon serratus) and not Easterns (P. cinereus) 12:57 Chattooga Dusky (D. perlapsus) 13:04 Southern Gray-cheeked Salamander (Plethodon metcalfi); out of range for Red-cheeked (P. jordani) 13:33 Spring Salamander (Gyrinophilus porphyriticus); adult 14:22 Newts (N. viridescens); adults 15:04 Chattooga Dusky (D. perlapsus) 15:09 Dusky Salamander; Chattooga Dusky (D. perlapsus) or Seal (D. monticola) 15:33 Graphic No D. fuscus in Nantahala NF anymore P. jordani not at Whiteside; P. metcalfi Redback mistakenly labeled P. jordani; would be P. serratus if animal was not D. aeneus No ravine salamanders that far south; mis-ID'd Dusky; pic is also of a Dusky sp. Kumbrabow SF 17:44 D. monticola 18:00 Northern Two-lined (Eurycea bislineata) 18:29 Dusky; D. fuscus/D. monticola 18:46 Allegheny Dusky (D. ochrophaeus); red phase 18:48 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); not a ravine; D. fuscus? 19:11 Newt (N. viridescens) 19:23 Allegheny Dusky (D. ochrophaeus), not Longtail (E. longicauda) 20:00 Slimy Salamander (Plethodon glutinosus) 20:20 Spring (G. porphyriticus); larva 21:25 Spring (G. porphyriticus); adult 21:48 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); new metamorph; not Spotted Salamander (Ambystoma maculatum) or Yellow Spotted Woodland Salamander (Plethodon pauleyi) 22:08 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); fuscus/ochrophaeus, not Green Salamander (Aneides aeneus) 22:14 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); fuscus/ochrophaeus 22:17 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); fuscus/monticola 22:20 Dusky (Desmognathus sp.); fuscus/monticola/ochrophaeus 22:31 Graphic No P. richmondi found; graphic of Dusky sp. E. longicauda was D. ochrophaeus A. maculatum graphic is P. pauleyi; animal found was Desmognathus sp.

[@Jillybear265]

A whole Lotta Dusky

[@TylerDavidDiatomBrock]

Welcome to Appalachia

[@FnSpiralMedia]

@atlasPro You already know this, but I just want to point out that your efforts are genuinely advancing the world's understanding of the planet we live on. Like, that's incredible and I hope you continue to keep up your hard work as well as enjoy it!!

[@NazriBuang-w9v]

Lies again? Marsiling Drive North West

[@SaraBearRawr0312]

As a North Carolinian, the southern Appalachians are some of the most beautiful natural environments that North America has to offer. They may not have the spectacle of the Pacific and interior ranges of the western US, Canada & Alaska, but the Appalachians have an "old" feeling to them which is fitting given how old the apps are, and standing in the thick of the forest or looking out on the canopy tops from a mountain gives the sense of something ancient or even magical in a way. For the Tolkien nerds reading this, exploring the depths of the Appalacians has always made me imagine them like the Forest of Doriath, under the veil of Maiar magic from Melian. A deep mystique meanders through those woods in both a calming and unnerving way.

[@sayeager5559]

I agree. And well put.

[@MrCapybara_Mapping]

Im also North Carolinian

[@muenchhausenmusic]

The Tolkien nerdery is much appreciated. Love me some Beleriand 😍

[@zeitgeistx5239]

Eh your statement shows what’s wrong with humanity. With the exception of rainy forests, most forests looked nothing like the 1800s or now because forest fire frequently renewed forests. Human settlement completely stopped forest fires and broke natures cycle for promoting a healthy forest. A real natural forests would burn several times in your lifetime, thus replenishing the soil and allowing new tree species to bloom.

[@badabing3391]

@@zeitgeistx5239 fires also disproportionately take out younger trees. This is why a lot of older trees in the PNW are still dying despite protection efforts, because the prevention of fires means that younger trees with greater metabolisms are able to grow and outcompete older trees when grown near each other.

[@grahamrankin4725]

According to "Tumult of the Mountains" by Clarkson (1964) most of primeval forest of West Virginia was clear cut by 1929 and further destroyed by fires that spread through area. In some places the soil was urned down to the bedrock and has not recovered to this day.

[@josiahfresnel]

Such a tragedy these beautiful lands are damaged and destroyed

[@DakotaFord592]

Omg!! This man is so beautiful!! I want to put my face next to the arch of his foot!!!

[@dlkline27]

Have the book and you're right.

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

There’s still remains of those fires burning today due to exposed coal seams catching fire and burning into the mountains

[@BuddhiYoga7]

Thanks for the reference- will use it in my research regarding chestnut blight, which they say is the reason why the billions of chestnut trees were gone by the late 30s. I suspect the powers used blight as the reason to remove the healthy trees to prevent further blight.

[@BHuang92]

Ive stayed in WV for a couple years in college and was genuinely surprised by the forests in WV. The state was renowned for the abundance of pinewood forests that once covered the Appalachian mountains but overlogging caused it to go extinct and so i was part of a volunteer group that planted hundreds of tree saplings to restore the former forests.

[@MrChristianDT]

We need that where I live, too. Most "pine forest" that's left here are non-native tree plantations & the little bit of natural pine forest you do find now & again is pretty sad & threadbare in the biodiversity department. Up until pretty recently, the park services were actually funding a lot of studies because we'd decimated northeast Ohio so thoroughly, even they weren't entirely sure of what all was supposed to actually be here.

[@DakotaFord592]

Omg!! This man is so beautiful!! I want to put my face next to the arch of his foot!!!

[@christians.4938]

Hey I recently spent some time in a volunteer planted pine forest here in WV, lots of cute little pines, if you had anything to do with that; thank you.

[@bigpicturethinking5620]

@@DakotaFord592what?

[@DakotaFord592]

@@bigpicturethinking5620 the most beautiful part of a man!! His feet!!!

[@basilbrushbooshieboosh5302]

Glaciers don't mean you won't have deep top-soils. They're present via two main methods: 1. Glaciers can force top-soils into depressions where the glacier may grind the surrounding rock and glide over the depression. The crushed rock from above also adds to the creation of soils in the depressions, as crushed rock is nutrient rich and encourages microbe activity. 2. Soils naturally gravitate to post-glacial depressions, and 10,000 odd years is plenty of time for this to happen, as well as the soils in these high rainfall areas to have had the time to naturally be built in any case through microbe processes. The pockets of rainforest made these two ways will more often be smaller, though not always, because it depends on quirks of geographies, and as you know, there are a heck of a lot of these.

[@teeing9355]

Grew up in WV on the border of PA, I can tell you there is nothing but Rhododendron and Mt Lural, and we played with tons of different looking salamanders, they were everywhere. You may want to investigate the PA's Laurel Highlands. FYI: WV's state flower is the Rhododendron.

[@thecreativecrawdad]

So happy about this video! I'm a WV native and been a fan for a while now. So glad to see you explore wild and wonderful WV. The state has some true treasures that are not that well known.

[@aaronschaefer4167]

Neighbor, Maryland here, we love camping in your state! Very friendly too!

[@DakotaFord592]

Omg!! This man is so beautiful!! I want to put my face next to the arch of his foot!!!

[@Lalah-samone33]

Living up in tucker and Randolph county. Woods are beautiful here as well. Glad people’s finally covering this.

[@croatia0728]

It’s actually so cool seeing you go out and answer research questions that further humanity’s knowledge of biogeography. For a relatively underfunded and under-researched field, things like this really do make a big difference.

[@TrevorHager]

I promise, these places were not secrets lmao

[@StyTheMage]

Very nice video! It's weird seeing Rhododendrons being praised so much since they're an invasive species in large parts of Europe, but in it's natural habitat they really do look stunning.

[@isaacthedestroyerofstuped7676]

I bet they are a big problem! Especially with their toxicity and innumerable, miniscule seeds

[@cpMetis]

This comment sent me on a pretty interesting Wikipedia dive, since it's weird to think anyone could do anything when presented with a healthy rhododendron except love it. And I guess the super invasive species in europe..... is european? The only one that popped up was apparently Iberian, and is invasive in the UK/Ireland. And there are other native rhododendrons in other parts of europe as well. This feels like one of those "what do you mean your trash cans aren't constantly toppled by coyotes and raccoons?" moments. What's next? Never got pissed at a rattlesnake being a jerk and not leaving your garage?

[@vinniepeterss]

true

[@StyTheMage]

@@cpMetis I'll be honest and say I didn't make the connection to ours being a European species! Excuse my ignorance. I only got taught that it was invasive and was called rhododendron (with it's scientific name being Rhododendron spec.). Doing some research myself it is indeed the pontic rhododendron from Iberia. It is an invasive species in our limited Dutch forests too. It's being monitored closely due to the situation in the UK and Ireland. If let go, it could cover our forest floors in a dense shade. That in turn would reduce the number of bushes and herbaceous plants and thereby impacting biodiversity significantly. Still, my point stands. It IS strange seeing it praised so much. But cheers for letting me check I got my facts straight.

[@martijn9568]

@@cpMetisI guess the likelihood of finding a larger predator is also a lot smaller in Europe than in America, although they are rather rare in the eastern US as well.😅 Although I find it difficult to understand the issue of reintroducing the wolf in many parts of Europe, when so many people keep dogs, which can be a danger to people as well..

[@Pykenike1]

and here is me, thinking there were only country roads there.

[@AtlasPro1]

there were plenty of those too

[@BriaRuwaaWhite]

​@AtlasPro1 please do video on the savannas in Virginia and rainforests in Alaska.

[@vinniepeterss]

😂

[@dysthymicdream]

Almost heaven, though

[@theadventuresamongus9072]

And they're amazing 😍

[@SpiritofDaniel]

I find this very interesting because in 1987, the year I graduated, I went from where I lived in Herndon Virginia to Canaan valley West Virginia for a big mountain bike race. I had an overwhelming feeling I was in something like a Hawaiian island and on a very high plateau. It stayed with me to this day. I also remembered it was very much like a rainforest and was very unexpected. It was very surreal and I never heard anybody else speak of it until your video. You've confirmed something I didn't understand! Thank you

[@courtney2293]

Former NKU Herpetology student: all of those salamanders species can be found in Kentucky, too. The Herpetology professor at Northern Kentucky University will DEFINITELY be able tell you what those species are. :) Thanks SO MUCH for this video: loved ecology/herpetology as an undergrad and life landed me a boring pharma job. These videos make me very nostalgic and happy. 😊

[@robertmcdonald1648]

Hi, big salamander guy here. The salamander you thought was a spring salamander in North Carolina is probably a red salamander. Great video, love the content.

[@boio_]

thank you big salamander guy

[@ThecrazyJH96]

Imagine how great the temperate rainforest was before the Industrial Revolution! The biodiversity of trees and plants thanks to the help of the carrier pidgeon, Carolina parakeet esc. Elk, wolves, cougars, more bears. More salamanders. Unbelievably huge chestnut trees. So sad we couldn’t see it at its peak diversity

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

Bear aren’t certainly lacking, they’ve become a problem, in my area, and there are unconfirmed reports of cougar still, but the last confirmed cougar in West Virginia was back in the 1970s when a farmer shot and killed what he thought was a large dog attacking his cattle. There are some Elk that have been reintroduced I’ve yet to see one but I’ve seen pictures of them.

[@jakehurley9394]

PA resident, Poconos is 100% a rainforest in an unexpected place. I saw bushkill falls once and was astounded that this could be found in my own backyard. Our world is a wonderful place.

[@mucpougaming6092]

getting to watch clouds form before your eyes on the mountainside is truly a privilege innit. love from malaysia

[@verilliumfunk4886]

Interesting how flipping rocks in New York works better because there is no understory and therefore less leaves to hide under 12:57

[@AtlasPro1]

My thoughts on this were that because the forest floor is more moist, salamanders can persist away from the cover of rocks for much longer, making them harder to find only by flipping over rocks. Here in New York the floor dries out more frequently and so they’re more often found taking refuge under rocks.

[@ebogar42]

You can find thick Rhododendrons where I'm from in Alleghany County, VA too. It's in SW VA on the border of WV. It gets thick here with plant life. The higher you go up the mountain, the more exotic looking plant life you can find that makes you feel you're in a rain forest. There are lots of different varieties of fish, animal, and bug life too. I've seen things deep in the mountains, in streams that I've never seen since. Tons of different salamanders too.

[@vulcanfeline]

i noticed that rhododendron leaves looked very much like the leaves of labrador tea where i'm from in n.canada boreal forest. looked it up and they are, indeed, part of the rh family. the most wonderful use of these leaves once they've attained the brown under parts is as treatment for bug bites. (you may be aware of the joke that canadian mosquitos wear kevlar vests and ride harleys - it's true, they do.) a tea made from 1-2 leaves will cure burning, itchy bug bites. there's also a supposed repellent effect, but i can't attest to it. since you're from around there, i'm wondering if you have any such use for the leaves of the big rh trees. (excuse me for only typing rh instead of the full word but since i had a stroke, my typing requires very, very much fixing of typos)

[@ebogar42]

@@vulcanfeline I don't use them. Maybe some people do. I've recently learned of many things here people use. We have stuff like shrooms and sassafras too people eat or make teas out of. There is probably a lot of stuff I don't know about like that.

[@AncientWildTV]

@@vulcanfeline are there any other local plants also have unique uses or remedies that you rely on?

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

@@vulcanfelineI live in West Virginia, Southwestern half. Near Virginia and a few hours drive from the Kentucky border. I’ve never heard of people using Rhododendron for tea, but that doesn’t mean that the old timers and the tribes never used them. We have quite an assortment of mushrooms, ginseng wild variants of berries, onions, peppermint etc. at my home we have wild strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries as well as wild onions and peppermint. I know people who chew birch stems almost like a chewing tobacco I think for settling an upset stomach. Many people used to grow a garden cluster of poppies to make a tea (which was basically just opium) of course there always someone who has a suspiciously shaped plant that they hid behind their shed and they’d pick the buds off of it and smoke it.

[@vulcanfeline]

@@AppalachianMountaineer1863 nice to meet someone else appreciative of native plants. in canada, we can grow suspiciously shaped plants in the open, but only 10 at a time :D

[@renedemers8218]

Looking forward to your Poconos trip! it's definitely interesting to find out that the main thing holding parts of the green mountains back from being a rainforest is the lack of soil, but also can't say I'm surprised - the cloud formations you showed from the top of white mountains were a familiar sight to me in my youth in VT , but I've never seen an understory like in these videos.

[@josephdipiero7976]

As a native West Virginian, I was delighted to see my home state featured on one of my favorite channels. I visited Kumbrabow State Forest every year growing up at summer camp, and while I always knew it was a magical place I never realized it was a full blown rain forest! I watched the full video with my sons (4 and 2) who were fascinated by the salamanders. Thank you for visiting our state and hope you find occasion to come back again soon!

[@KeemyCraft]

Great video! Always love hearing about ecology and salamanders! The salamander that you couldn't identify in N.C. was a red cheeked salamander, which is a rainforest endemic. The redback salamanders in NC are a different species than the redbacks in WV, the southern redbacked salamander. Also the one's you thought were springs salamanders were, by the black ridges by their nose. Also, the salamander you said was a longtailed salamander in W.V. was an allegheny dusky, as they occasionally look like that with the yellow. Cool finds none the less, would love to see more content revolving around salamanders or reptiles or other amphibians!

[@ArcticTron]

Yeah I would not mind if this "Is There A Rainforest In X" becomes a regular series on the channel, it's just neat to see you actually go to these places to see for yourself if it fits the criteria.

[@daved2820]

I was just thinking that before you mentioned the poconos, there are trails on the Delaware water gap in both PA and NJ that absolutely meet the same criteria as a thick understory and high concentrations of amphibian life, even during your first video when you established the criteria I thought it could be considered. Definitely go there

[@CarleyGoshaw28]

I agree, both sides of the Water Gap are beautiful!

[@zerogstormz4444]

I've been saying this for years, Thornhurst pa in the Poconos meets the criteria. Along the Lehigh river is a very odd microclimate. It Should be studied more here

[@richardfrieman]

Hey Atlas- love to see more New Yorkers around the educational KZbin community! I’m Rich Frieman and I’m a mapping geologist at the New York State Geological Survey. I’d love to chat about projects you’re working on and help if I can! I’d be happy to provide some contact info and maybe I can provide some ideas/resources for future content.

[@khabukie]

you are seriously one of the very best channel on KZbin in my opinion. the editing, the voice over, the education, it all comes together so beautifully

[@NooneE36]

You are definitely the most underrated KZbinr

[@GrimYarrow]

Rhododendrons are WV's state flower for a reason.

[@H3boy]

Yes! We have a ton of them

[@robertandrews8677]

Hi, Atlas Pro! I have spent quite a lot of time in the Southern Appalachian Temperate Rainforests, and I have to push back on your criteria for temperate rainforests. Instead of a robust understory, I would argue that an abundance of epiphytes is better measurement of a temperate rainforest. Here in the southern Appalachians, the understory is comparable to the understories in neighboring deciduous forests. However, these forests are cloaked in an assortment of mosses, ferns, and liverworts. Some pockets in the Great Smoky Mountains have trees draped in long threads of green moss. Also, the Smokies aren't the only temperate rainforest in the southern Appalachians. Aside from the high peaks that capture moisture, the Blue Ridge Escarpment (much lower in elevation) is even rainier (over 120 inches of rain annually!). This is because a series of southeast-facing gorges catches rain from the Gulf of Mexico. On a different note, if you want another perspective on temperature rainforests, you should look at the Encyclopedia of the Biosphere's volume on temperate rainforests.

[@lithostheory]

Watching the vid again to boost it in the algorithm :)

[@christopherappleton4041]

If rhododendrons and mountain laurel makes a rainforest, then a whole lot of the Pennsylvania mountains are covered in rain forest

[@Game_Hero]

don't forget the amount of rain

[@christopherappleton4041]

@@Game_Hero True, and the salamanders

[@MrsBrit1]

WV, too. I don't know how the whole stage doesn't get enough rain, tbh. It rains hard all the time! Hard enough to knock out powerlines!

[@laurachapin204]

Some of the mtns of Georgia too.

[@Louieface9770]

That's what I thought as soon he said that. The area around Little Mountain has a lot of Mountain Laurel, and it can dump a hell of a lot of rain around Little Mountain.

[@ethaneverglades7512]

One REALLY amazing place you should do a video on is Torreya State Park. It is a glacial refugia and has the highest number of tree species in the U.S. IDK if itd be considered a rainforest but it sure is an amazing place.

[@muxpux]

I work at Mt St Helens and we have kind of the opposite, we are in a rainforest area, but after the eruption, the regeneration process is slow (especially in areas where the blast denuded the landscape and exposed bedrock. These areas are covered in grasslands now and resemble more a landscape that you’d find east of the Cascade crest in the rain shadow. This is heavily contrasted by areas where lakes and streams have formed and heavy alder thickets have sprung up creating very lush forests interspersed with wide open grasslands. A very unique environment!

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

I still wish to see Mt St Helens, I think the landscape looks like the aftermath of a nuclear bomb.

[@chrisbrandt6316]

The Poconos and Laurel Highlands in PA are probably the best spots to find a temperate rainforest North of West Virginia.

[@triadmad]

I spent weeks in Pocahontas and Greenbrier Counties taking a geology field camp class in order to get my geology degree. I can attest to the fact that the rhododendron and laurel were a serious PITA for geology students trying to find rock outcrops.

[@raymondlouk3686]

I live across the road of kumbrabow on the tygarts valley river and saw a hell bender last year. I was so surprised and got into contact with a friend of mine that works for the state forest service and let him know about it and he told me that it has been years since there have been any hell benders reported in my area of the tygarts valley river and that it was a sign that the river is healthy. I hope that you enjoyed your time at kumbrabow. Point mountain and cheat mountain are very nice and wet to, they are a lot more boggy than kumbrabow. the next time that you come to West Virginia check out cranberry glades and dolly sods.

[@rh-sd7tf]

There are some areas of north New Jersey that might make the cut. I’m thinking about areas around West Milford, around where the glaciers came to a stop, where there are valleys full of mountain laurels, and I’ve seen many species of salamander.

[@Atlasworkinprogress]

So others have suggestions, but I have to add. If you have never visited the Hoh Rainforest and other surroundinf rainforests in Olympic National Park, you definitly should! You can hike along the Hoh River, visit the Olympic Hot Springs, and check out Mt. Stormking while you're there. Some people also consider the forests on the western side of the Cascades are Rainforest as well, which means an excuse to get out to Mt. Rainier, the North Cascades, and Mt. St. Helens.

[@davidskszp1408]

This channel has always been so amazing and beautiful. It's ALWAYS worth the wait. Such an awesome piece of work

[@paulshell1729]

The Dolly Sods Wildeness area in North-Eastern WVa is another interesting geographical anomaly: a high altitude plateau with flora normally found much further North. Also a beautiful, rugged and remote area for hiking and camping.

[@lasthaunt]

it's very rare i see my state covered like this, this video was very pleasant

[@HideyHoleOrg]

I just went to Cooper's Rock State Park in WV just after seeing this video, and the signs that you spoke of were all over the place. Additionally, I thought back to my time camping at this State Park as a child(this was my first time there in almost 30 years), and it was always raining when we would go camping there, without fail. Even when my parents spent their honeymoon there, it rained. I was able to look at a forest that I had visited many times with new eyes because of this video.

[@troycassidy6177]

You should check out the Gippsland region of Victoria Australia or Southwest Tasmania. There's remnant Antarctic rainforest species, Dry Eucalyptus Woodlands, Alpine Highlands, and Grasslands all within a couple of hours drive.

[@richjordan6461]

A little longer of a trip ;-) But absolutely it'd be cool. I don't think there are any salamanders down there, tho!

[@indigotaylor-noguera7119]

"Is there a rainforest in Pennsylvania?" Now you have an idea for a video! I look forward to watching it.

[@xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz]

Yes! Another rainforest excursion video. Hope you find one even further north.

[@xro5503]

The growing conditions have changed over the last 120 years in these regions, there was a chestnut forest extending from new york to mississippi which was all cut down in the early 1900's, which would have qualified as the missing rainforest in the new york region you were hypothesizing

[@taotaoliu2229]

I’ve been through a small part of West Virginia on the way to Pittsburgh over the summer. It didn’t really rain, but it sure felt as dense as a rainforest! 🌳

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

We get a lot of rain all at once. Usually, right now it’s basically like a hurricane

[@na195097]

This year was a drought. We normally get much more rain.

[@the_chandler]

Every time in the video that I heard you say "Appalachian" the right way (APP-UH-LATCH-UHN) I threw a fist in the air, and I'm not joking at all haha. Love the video. Thank you for coming to my home state of West Virginia. Its got so much beautiful land. I miss it dearly.

[@-cactus.raven-]

Love walking the woods here, harder to do now that I’m on a college campus but it’s always my go to when I head back during breaks

[@nline2blast722]

Yeah but I grew up in WV and and my area always said... App-Uh-Latch-En

[@ES-pc8kf]

I was born and raised in WV in App-a-lay-chu (Northern Panhandle) until after college. I have a North Central accent influenced by proximity to Ohio and Pennsylvania and all my ancestors inhabited Ohio since it became a state. Linguists recognize 2 pronunciations but I forget the details about this. I think they are influenced by the state borders of the different regions and the dialects of the immigrants who originally settled there.

[@RegrettablyLongwinded]

​@@ES-pc8kfThis is essentially correct. For the most part, you'll hear latch in the south, and lay in the north. That said, the most correct pronunciation is the latch one, as this was the pronunciation used by the indigenous culture that the mountains are now named after. In accordance, I try to use the original latch pronunciation despite being in the north myself. (This is to the best of my understanding; if anyone has credible sources to the contrary, I'd be very interested in reading more.)

[@Sunnybunnypi]

The only pronunciations that are wrong are App-ah-lay-shun (when said outside of the north east) and app-ah-la-ki-ahn (anywhere, this is never right)

[@robertstilwell398]

If you're checking out PA, you should look into the Allegheny National Forest. Around the Clarion River are tones of smaller streams each with plenty of those red fs walking around with a lot of mountain laurel. Good Luck!!

[@bpdub21]

When I moved to WV 3 years ago I was stunned at how lush it is in the summer here. I lived in Jamaica for a few years and it is every bit as lush and "jungly" here in the summer as it is in Jamaica.

[@jeremiahjewell3398]

I love these forest exploration/explanation videos! Would be interested in seeing a deep dive on the Redwood forest in Northern California as well! Keep up the excellent work :)

[@ShihammeDarc]

KZbinrs who do their own science like Atlas Pro and Cody'sLab are my most favorite on the platform! Firsthand science is very interesting to me as I can see the entire process and unfortunately they are rare on KZbin. From this rainforest exploration, to the fossil hunting, to the brand new insights into insular biogeography and to the observation of hotspots forming opposite to impact craters I daresay this is the most innovative science channel on KZbin.

[@Lemanic89]

This is pre-Zaslav Discovery Channel material. Good work!

[@theX24968Z]

as a Pennsylvanian, I would very much be interested in a trip to the Poconos talking about this

[@spencerz4503]

10 minutes in i got hit with a 50 minute long documentary about saving a tribe in Brazil. I watched it all. Forgot what the video was about and had to restart it. 10/10

[@randomuser5443]

Imagine if West Virginia changes from Coal to the American rainforest tourism sector.

[@AtlasPro1]

That's the dream!

[@jackalope2302]

​@@AtlasPro1that might be awesome

[@JRBWare1942]

West Virginia started pushing tourism in the late 1970's. A few tourists come every year, but not nearly enough to significantly boost the economy.

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

Tourism doesn’t keep the lights on, it also doesn’t provide enough jobs. People don’t understand the cultural impact of coal to West Virginia. To us it is a birthright. We fought a war over it in the 1920s, that’s where the term Redneck comes from. Mining coal has kept the state from collapsing completely it’s intertwined it will never change at least for the next thousand years when the prediction of the coal will run out.

[@JRBWare1942]

@@AppalachianMountaineer1863 Can I get an Amen?!

[@johnnunya-bissness2406]

Wilkes Barre Pennsylvania is my hometown just outside of the Poconos. Lots of moutain laurel here as soon as you head in either direction out of the valleys

[@edavis4835]

Sending prayers to Asheville after the hurricane. I just left Boone today

[@hahawatch606]

West Virginian here i never thought that a "rainforest" would be here considering its all mountains here but anyways good video

[@isaacthedestroyerofstuped7676]

Especially now that the drought has really taken the rain away this year...

[@mcchuggernaut9378]

Here in West Virginia we have a National Forest area called Dolly Sods - it is basically a piece of Northern Muskeg that got left in the high elevations of West Virginia's mountains after the last glacial maximum. Though all the glacial maximum maps I could find, and what you provide here, show the glaciers stopping ~50 to 100 miles north of northern W.V., some geologists believe it actually extended just a bit further South, and the Sods were actually right on the very edge of the southern-most glaciation and that some smaller glaciers not attached to the main ice sheet were present in that mountainous region of West Virginia. They just weren't there long enough to truly scour the top soil like they did further north. Further evidence of this is a few glacial moraine deposits in the state which have contained some anomalous diamonds and other errata which could only have gotten here through glaciation deposits. In short, northern W.V. sits right on a very fuzzy boundary, and there is some weird glacial fringe geology going on here. I highly suspect, as do some other state geologists, that the glacial maximum map is a bit wrong here, and that due to the higher elevations of the Appalachian plateau which cuts right through north central W.V., glaciation briefly spiked South here for a short time, not long enough to be super obvious, but still enough to leave a bit of evidence that it existed (Peat bog remnants, moraines, glacial erratics, some plants that shouldn't be here, etc...). But the scientific jury is still out on this, and that line remains fuzzy, despite very compelling evidence that it is probably true we did have glaciation here, however briefly (geologically speaking. Geologic time is damn slow.). Even stranger, we have this odd phenomenon here having to do with deep valleys and high peaks where we have pockets of what can only be described as "cloud forests" - it doesn't rain on the rainfall maps as often as it would seem, but there are pockets of forest that meet all the criteria for a temperate rainforest - very wet, lush, full of rhododendrons, mountain laurel, grape vines, mushrooms, and incredibly ecologically diverse with thick soils and unique biomes with rare species. Salamanders are literally EVERYWHERE. I grew up in Braxton County W.V., and I shit you not you can cross into valleys that look and feel exactly like temperate rainforests and then mere hundreds of feet away on hilltops are classic dryer deciduous tracts. I could take you to see them. It's like crossing into completely different worlds only miles apart. Unfortunately this year we have experienced the worst drought in living memory in West Virginia, and everything is all out of whack and isn't a good representation of how things normally are. But during a typical year I can walk you through a temperate rainforest in one valley through dry hardwood forest to high altitude coniferous forest several times in an afternoon. It's gorgeous and awe inspiring, and West Virginia doesn't get enough credit for it's astoundingly varied and special natural wonders.

[@AtlasPro1]

Fascinating! I wish I’d had more time to explore more of the state!

[@cjthebeesknees]

You know a fellas means business when he hits ya with the “I sh*t you not” never change chief, never change.

[@kagetemplar]

The west coast of BC has rain forests and it arrears to be covered in glacier maximum. might be interesting to explore how these areas got their soil back.

[@1TakoyakiStore]

I remember looking at a Forest ecology map based on temperature and rainfall years ago for Florida. To my surprise not only was there parts of the Florida Panhandle that exceeded the 55" threshold for a rainforest (its still considered humid subtropical though) but that a small smudge within Fort Lauderdale qualified as a tropical rainforest.

[@Weathernerd27]

That does look like a rainforest, in Washington state you know you are in the rainforest when there is so much brush its hard to go off trail, the trees are huge and some of them are covered in moss and there is a great variety of animals. Rainforest can grow in glaciated areas but it takes a higher rainfall. Mt Rainier was totally covered in glaciers during the ice age but today you find rainforests between 1,500 and 3,000 feet but the rainfall is more like 80 to 100 inches. There might have been alittle rainforest below 1,500 ft at one time but the low elevations were heavily logged. The rainfall keeps increasing as you climbing peaking at 140 inches at 7,500 feet but above 3,000 feet the winters are too harsh to support a rainforest. The typical winter snowline is about 2,000 feet and the snow depth increases rapidly as you climb. Above 5,000 feet its not unusual to see 15 to 20 foot deep snowbanks that don't melt until the 4th of July. The summit of Mt Rainier is suprisingly dry it rises above the thicker clouds but the snow doesn't melt much at that altitude it just keeps piling up so it doesn't look dry.

[@Jordan_Makes]

You are easily one of if not my favorite KZbinr. Your content is so engaging and fascinating. I would love to do what you do. Thank you! Keep doing what you love and I’ll be here watching!

[@chadcolson7193]

So I’ve actually had this conversation many times with my buddy who works as a conservationist for the PA/WV F&BCs about the Laurel Highlands in southwestern PA. I grew up in Westmoreland County and the forests of southwestern PA (Laurel Highlands) are also part of the Alleghenies. We have argued about what exactly makes a rainforest by definition and we agree that the only reason this area isnt considered temperate rainforest is because of the precipitation threshold is not met(though it is quite close and if you lived here you’d understand). Not only does this area have a great diversity of reptiles/amphibians especially considering how far north it’s located, it has a well established understory of mountain laurel and is world renowned for its fungal diversity. I’ve experienced this firsthand as my friend and I are avid Herpers and Foragers. I HIGHLY recommend that once you’ve paid a visit to the Poconos, to head southwest to the Westmoreland/Somerset/Fayette County area and explore what it has to offer (though I’d argue this environment runs as far north as Indiana County and Cambria County). Great video man, been watching for a long time👍🏽

[@David-um2hs]

Glaciers extended further south than what is depicted in the video. These glaciers changed the course of ancient rivers. The Teays river which extended along the same path now followed by interstate 64 from Nitro to Huntington was one of those. Therefore we can conclude glacier coverage extended as far south as that same line. When the glacier receeded the river resumed it's old course which runs from Nitro to Point Pleasant WV.

[@douglasgriffin694]

There are tons of areas like that in the Alleghenies in West Virginia and even up into Maryland. If you’re keen to explore more, Blackwater Falls State Park is a great place to look, as well as bits of Dolly Sods, the Falls of Hills Creek, Gaudineer Knob, and even potentially Swallow Falls in Maryland and Coopers Rock near Morgantown. Cathedral State Park has an area of Old Growth (unlogged) forest, and from what I hear the forests before logging had massive trees and giant amounts of peat. If you can, look up the history of Dolly Sods-I think that would be both a confirmation of the rain forest ecosystem of the area and potentially the reason (heavy logging and post logging peat fires) that the rain forest is not well known. It’s also interesting to note that there are several ski resorts in that part of West Virginia that take advantage of the increased precipitation which can fall as snow in the winter.

[@TV_Offroad]

I think the general biome of Dolly Sods would be interesting enough for him to make a trip. Especially given its history, of what it was and what it looks like today.

[@bluejay3945]

Great insight. If u were planning a trip to hit the best of the best what would be ur itinerary? We’d be heading off from NJ. Thank u!

[@eliforeal5261]

Definitely one of my favourite channels on KZbin! I hope you have a very long and successful career on this platform!

[@johnenright9859]

Great video but I think the assumption that being glaciated automatically means that an area will have thin rocky soil is a bit flawed. This is true of mountain tops and areas like the Canadian Shield, but Large portions of the Midwest and southwestern Ontario were glaciated and have ludicrously thick glaciolacustrine soil layers (10s of metres of till and clay). These are some of the most fertile areas in the continent (which has wreaked havoc on the historic prairie and Carolinian forests here) Applying this criteria (only looking at unglaciated areas) would also mean that virtually all of the temperate coastal and interior rainforests in British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest would be missed as well. I think this criteria should be treated cautiously, and might allow us to find even more unexpected rainforests. Some other areas you could consider for this series: the areas near Lake Superior Provincial Park in Ontario. This area is home to old growth boreal forest near the coast of Lake Superior, and some have proposed that it has a climate similar to a coastal rainforest (see the book Old Growth Forests of Ontario) I would also be curious to see your take on areas with waterfalls which often create a miniature ‘rainforest-like’ pocket of vegetation.

[@PrestonTemple-j6e]

I live in North Carolina and that's was really exciting news about these type of forest!... Gotta go check these areas myself!!!... Also yes to the PA exploration!!

[@glenmorrison8080]

24:27 That's where you wanna go. Down to the Poconos.

[@bitameah7745]

😂

[@AmazingNature1278]

I live in PA about an hour from the Poconos. They have so many Rhododendrons and azaleas in the understory. You should definitely go there and have a look!

[@fishyspartan1]

I have to disagree with the point about glaciers. Anyone who doesn't think rainforests can exist immediately next to active glaciers needs to read up on the Tongass. Soil layers are 12" and bedrock - you can still have a rainforest.

[@AmazingNature_]

Living in West Virginia and exploring all of the state on fishing and hiking trips, it does have a very diverse ecology. Many areas are impassible with understory vegetation. Native plants like rhododendron, laurel, and greenbriers and invasive kudzu and other vines that are covering all understory and entire trees. Paw paws thickets in understory are interesting as well having a banana and mango (tropical) tasting fruit.

[@BriaRuwaaWhite]

Have you talked about Bermuda being the Northernmost tropics because coconut grow there and thats why Azores isn't tropical because no coconuts?

[@Otashnaari]

Presence of Coconut trees are a good determinating factor for if a humid coastal climate is tropical or not.

[@Aiden7337Stalnik]

That is a very good topic I myself have considered many times before. Azores could possibly become tropical and support coconut trees in the next few years due to climate change.

[@Ululiona-Linulu]

Bermuda isn't the Northernmost tropical place. The Azores are tropical as it never gets below freezing. Except where it snows on high mountains like Pico.

[@JaKingScomez]

@@Ululiona-Linulubruh😭

[@JaKingScomez]

@@Ululiona-Linulusouth florida freezes and it is undeniably tropical. Thats not how it works

[@elliebeck-ss4rb]

Try checking out Southwest PA as well, South West can get pretty swampy also North PA around Elk County and Cherry Springs (look up parks up there too) is just super pretty lol, Cherry Springs is also the only place on the East Coast that is considered a star park due to how little light pollution there is, you can see other parts of the MilkyWay therre

[@Tinil0]

It's really a shame you are stuck out on the east coast and limited to only east coast forests, it would be really fun to have you explore the PNW's rainforests.

[@joshuabailey7246]

Dolly sods, and cranberry glades have plants that are not supposed to be growing there, very cool places to visit....I'm a born and raised west Virginian, live in a small town named Ravenswood and I absolutely love my state and home

[@CambrianAquarium]

iNaturalist mentioned❤❤❤

[@Turdfergusen382]

Great conclusion. The beauty of learning is you can never learn it all. I would love to see that Poconos trip bud. Coral reefs of unexpected location a would be fun one too.

[@connermurray4373]

2 things. 1. Nobody is mentioning the pronunciation of Nantahala. I have only ever heard it pronounced like nanta-hey-la and this is how google pronounces it. 2. The map you show captioned "Areas in Appalachia that meet the climatic criteria of a temperate rainforest" shows some spots on the Cumberland plateau that meet the rainfall requirements for a rainforest. This may not technically be an actual rainforest(not sure), but I think you would be interested in it. There is quite a lot of mountain laurel, rhododendrons, and at least some salamanders around the big south fork national recreational area. Some parts definitely look like an Appalachian rain forest. I think some land around south Cumberland state park and frozen head state park also have similar features.

[@calebfox3108]

The pronunciation caught me off guard too lol

[@WildberryPrince]

In WV, I've also only heard it pronounced "kum-bray-boe". Kinda funny that he mispronounced both of them in the same sort of way.

[@daisybollo6094]

He pronounced Appalachian right!! Made me so happy!!

[@DrVictorVasconcelos]

English went through 2 events called great vowel shifts. Pretty much every indo-european language pronounces most vowels the same way, except for English, and even other languages that were romanized before American English (since posh British tended to also recognize the original "a" sound) became dominant tend to follow the spelling for the common sounds. The original sound for "a" is "ah". You'll find it in Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Polish and Ukrainian, and probably other languages I don't know, and in the romanization of Japanese and at least most languages that use the Greek or the Cyrillic scripts. So it's always a good bet that in a loanword "a" was originally pronounced "ah", unless it was romanized in the last ~50 years or so with the explicit goal of appealing to American English speakers.

[@JRBWare1942]

@@DrVictorVasconcelos I would disagree with your last paragraph. In the last fifty years or so, English romanization has tended to conform to the original vowel sound as they originally were in Latin. It was in the four centuries before that that English romanizations that reflected the effects of the Great Vowel Shift.

[@crystalthunderheart8895]

Having been to Western Virginia and SEastern Kentucky numerous times. I can confidently say it's definitely a rainforest. There's always some sort of steam going on in them mountains. I've never seen so many salamanders in my life. You can always find a creek somewhere. There are many waterfalls. The forest have Vines and the craziest mushrooms and Moss I've ever seen. There's even an occasional orchid. So many different kinds of ground foliage that I have no clue what they are. There are mountains and valleys, The valleys do well capturing the water and locking in weather. The mountains help block out the hurricanes and greatly slow them down. There are many many caves many interconnected and possibly even connected to Indiana. The air has a unique smell that not even the pigeon forge area has. Some sort of mix of moisture, minerals, and the deepest Forest you can imagine, fresh and truly impossible to pinpoint-there's nowhere else like it. And then there's the kudzu threatening it all

[@westondamore-k9b]

I think it would be a great idea to do a video on the Poconos

[@S550bro]

Lived in west virgina for 28 years. Can confirm there is indeed a crap ton of forest here haha. In all seriousness this is one of the most beautiful states and if you ever get a chance take a trip to camp and hike out here near the fall. Most people out here are shirt off their back friendly as well

[@RealClanCinema]

oh my word dude youre YAPPIN

[@ashbash118]

This was the ultimate show and tell. As always, I had so much fun watching you in your passions! Thanks for sharing with all of us!

[@rickkwitkoski1976]

Your graphic is covering BC but there definitely is rain forest beneath areas that you show as glaciated.

[@nyon7209]

Great Bear, right? And north of it is the Tongass in Alaska. They are in the area that was under glaciers during the last Ice Age, so they might just be areas of "climactic" rainforest, rather than supporting an understory, but I'm curious about them. I've never been in that area, so I can't say anything with certainty.

[@dolphingoreeaccount7395]

I think those are so excessively wet that it speeds soil formation. Also, wasn't there an idea free coastal strip? I could be wrong on either or both of these.

[@nyon7209]

The alaska bc coastline was under glaciers during the glacial maxima, at least that area was. And it they're that excessively wet, then I think it's an interesting nuance that could warrant a video discussing their unique situation.

[@orcrist3]

@@nyon7209 it's not a unique situation. There are other temperate rainforests that were covered by ice during the most recent glaciation (some in Scandinavia have good parallels). The idea that recent glaciation precludes rainforest formation is something atlaspro got fixated on from what seems to have been a misinterpretation of something Dr. Kudish said in the last video, which he probably meant to apply more specifically to higher elevations of appalachian peaks. Good fun videos but I don't really understand how he got so hung up on that and I think it's really skewing his thought process, along with not really understanding what forest ecologists mean by understory (he seems to use it in the way you'd normally refer to shrub/sapling layer, which is not unique to temperate rainforests or consistently a feature of them).

[@Hubabuba258]

Love it when you do this type of content. You're truly filling a unique niche on KZbin.

[@pompousegg]

i think what you identified as a ravine salamander was actually a blue spotted salamander, either way cool find!

[@jimmymcinerney1950]

I grew up in the Poconos! I'm very excited for you to explore there and watch what you find.

[@Interitus1]

That's not accurate rainforest can't exist where glaciers were. There is the Great Bear Rainforest in Canada, which is the largest Temperate Rainforest in the world.

[@BriaRuwaaWhite]

And the tongass rainforest in Alaska

[@Radnugget]

I think because the east has most of its heaviest rain right on mountains, it probably is not possible for rainforrests on the East Coast, but Alaska probably has quite a few cause its probably lower altitude and has more soil to work with. Mountains already aren't particularly known for deep soils.

[@BriaRuwaaWhite]

@@Radnugget the mountains in Alaska with shallow soil still support the temperate tongass rainforest

[@yingfortheking]

Antarctica used to be jungle. Glaciers aint forever

[@TheIconicWatermelon]

@@Radnugget also didnt like a part of alaska not be under glaciers? im tryna remember a map that like central alaska stretching to siberia wasnt glacier covered

[@Luaksz]

As a lifelong Appalachian resident of the Alleghenies, and have spent countless months in the Adirondacks and Southern Appalachians. I would venture to say the unique watershed structure of much of the Alleghenies and southward probably extends the range of “Temperate Rainforests” across the Alleghenies, Cumberlands, and Blue Ridge Mountains beyond the climatic requirement. So are these truly rainforests, per definition no, but these pockets where creeks and streams converge receive as much if not more than the minimum requirements of water to fulfill the requirement of temperate rainforest. Some PA examples include Cook Forest State Park, Detweiler Run and Alan Seeger Natural Areas (both in Rothrock State Forest), and many pockets within the Allegheny National Forest and Susquehannock State Forest. And if you are using Salamanders as a gauge of temperate rainforest PA holds just as many if not more species of the Great Smokies, including unique species such as the Allegheny Dusky Salamander.

[@jck956]

As a Pennsylvanian from Appalachia (Central not Northeast tho) It would be really cool if you did a video on the Pocano Mountains

[@elijahford3696]

Being a resident, it hasn't always been this way. I came here at around 12 years old, I'm 26 now. We used to get 3 feet of snow in the winters, and the bugs would die off when they were supposed to. Now, we're lucky to see anything stick to the ground around Christmas, and the bush has gone full jungle. Figured a local insight might help a bit. We've angered nature, and it's showing.

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

I’m a life long resident born and raised and we get snow, the last few years have been dry and extremely cold during winter which is two things that prevent snow. My family has lived here for generations. My dad said Christmas of 1979 he rode a bike to his grandma’s house that was 12 miles away and he was wearing a t shirt because it was 70 degrees outside. Weather patterns aren’t set in stone, the Earth swings temperatures wildly it’s always done it.

[@russelstrawmire9817]

@AtlasPro1 Laurel Ridged ain't named that for nothing. You gotta check that out down in Somerset county, PA. I also noticed on your map the rainfall is very high. And would snowfall count for the matter? One of the snowiest places in the state, far more than the Poconos.

[@AtlasPro1]

I looked into it already! It sure looks like a piece of Appalachian rainforest, but it's a little further south than the Poconos, which are RIGHT on the edge of the last glacial maximum. Still looks like an awesome place to visit!

[@SheilaRigney-g1n]

This is not only a beautifully-documented video, it is very encouraging. Thank you and yes I want to see more like this. Please!

[@martijn208]

video's like this make me kind of jealous, here in the Netherlands we don't have a lot of ancient forest. and we certainly don't have a lot of places with rocks or cliff faces however small. and obviously no mountains be seen here. and it just baffles me that you just drive 8 hours, with an 8 hour drive i would be in the black forest in Germany.

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

I live in West Virginia we are blessed with the beauty of nature. Please come visit. You might have to drive a few hours however 😂

[@onurbschrednei4569]

I mean the Ardennes and Eifel mountains aren't too far away, and there's some great forests and mountains to explore there. Check out the Eifel national park, it has a huge almost untouched beech forest, which is the original forest of most of Central Europe.

[@martijn208]

@@onurbschrednei4569 i've been to the Ardennes once when i was a little kid like, like when i was 4 or 5 or something and it was great true.

[@LiamRossGibson]

In answer to the question at the end of the video: yes please do go rainforest hunting in PA - love these videos! At the beginning you say that rainforests cannot exist anywhere glaciers extended during the last ice age. This may be true on the east coast, but on the west coast virtually all of Canada's temperate rainforests exist in areas which were previously glaciated. My understanding is that the soils here are also quite poor, but that a thick layer of decaying organic matter and infusions of key nutrients from the carcasses of sea life deposited by predatory mammals allow the rainforest to thrive.