IS THERE BETTER BOOST?

[@jeremymurphy7320]

You win, Richard. Best engine channel on KZbin. No more flacid episodes of Engine Masters for me.

[@bill2178]

Best part is all data not a bunch of chit chat

[@andrewalfe8433]

Come on guys - there’s room for both! This channel has great data but is actually pretty dry. Engine Masters has more entertainment value. But both do give an awful lot of good information.

[@Slowlanegarage]

Yessss! More ford testing!

[@scottsigmon926]

I love this sbf series. Keep it going sir.

[@Turboactive]

The boost pressure comparison tells all! Turbo supremacy!

[@gerfinafn4573]

Really reminds me of battle of the boost, ran in Hot Rod mag probably about 2003. Fantastic video, keep them Fords coming!. :-)

[@richardholdener1727]

should look familiar

[@flyonbyya]

Richard, Your next test should be... “Is it possible for a charge air temp be too cold”??? Start with room temp dyno water, then ice water, then finally -40f dry ice chilled anti-freeze solution . Will the -40f cold air create challenges, such as fuel demands that exceed the injector duty cycle or a fuel pumps inability to delivery the increased demand. John Meany, the inventor of Big Stuff 3, told me a super cold charge could indeed cause such challenges.

[@tensixtythreevideo]

Richard you are a machine. Man you kick these out every day. Best KZbin channel!

[@lloydholt6511]

Great presentation. I get it. The goal was to show what the differences in these power adders were and why. Love your demos.

[@richardholdener1727]

THNX

[@daveb1870]

"Definitive guide to everything motor and power adders" is what your channel should be called. No bs, full facts fpr those to see. If you have questions this is the channel to get your no bs answers from. Richard tests more stuff than any other channel I know of and is my go to when I have questions.

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx-just getting started

[@joshdais4925]

@@richardholdener1727 That bodes well for the rest of us.

[@JohnDiMartino]

At some point I would love to see you play with a new 7.3L pushrod Ford gasser...... I’m not a huge fan of the Paxton on the street, great for all out racing though provided you can keep the belt from slipping.... I’ll take the turbo first every time if there is room for all of it....then the roots blower the the Paxton

[@jamiemuncy2219]

I’m big time Ford and back in the late 90s I had a Novi Blown Fox with a 347 and you couldn’t keep the front tires on the ground 1st through 3rd. It was a white 89 GT with a 6 inch cowl hood and said Novi Blown in pink letters on the sides of the hood. Those Novi blowers are no DAMN JOKE, great video 👍

[@PhaseConverterampV]

Your videos are a good thing. You have boundless energy.

[@ng6424]

I put one of these 174 on a 302. Man it really wants to kill the tires now. Keep up the good work Richard!

[@High_Desert_Tanner]

I want to see this same video done again but including a Whipple or other twin screw supercharger. AWESOME vid!

[@crimzonzero8890]

Hell yea Whipples are alot more efficient than a roots blower

[@richardholdener1727]

please see the roots vs twin screw vs cent vs turbo video on the mod motor video that is up

[@High_Desert_Tanner]

@@richardholdener1727 thanks! I'm fairly new to your channel but love your work. I must have not seen that one yet lol...

[@rongalaxie]

I love the detail you go into, for a tech guy like me its perfect. Quickly delivered and direct to the point, smash it out for the hard core. Great stuff.

[@deanstevenson6527]

Ron KustomBitz : Punchy response to technical jargon. RH is truely fun to listen to! Hey, its time for chemical brothers super charging verses turbo charging. Comparing a 50% boost of nitrous agaonst a 7 pound boost of turbo, super or Invovi Charging. Nitrous is the perfect way to "fix" tardy off boost response.

[@thetransformatorium7980]

This is my Favorite channel on youtube! Cheers all! 👍👍👍😎

[@panchorfo]

Great video. As usual, your information worths Gold, the only thing that I am missing is the Boost Charge Temp vs PSI vs power.

[@johnhickman106]

Always loved reading your articles back in the day on boosting. All three boost machines here all have different personalities and they all work. Instant power-roots blower. A nice long rising curve with a softer bottom end-centrifugal blower. Most overall power and torque-turbo. I've driven all of them and they all are fun but it all depends on what you like, how you drive and intent. I was pretty lucky I feel by my results with the turbo. I added a 62mm Hellion kit to my 92 convertible Fox (5 speed) with a 150,000 mile stock engine. I only added a Cobra intake and 1.7 rockers. We didn't change the ring gap and kept boost at 10 PSI. It made 527.8 lb/ft of torque (4,000 rpm) and 444.6 horses (4,800 rpm) to the wheels on Mark Biddle's machine at Panhandle Performance in Panama City (2006). It did it reliably and for years. The stock T5 lasted too by just granny shifting. It was reliable and repeatable. I only lifted when the stock block wouldn't hold oil pressure at idle anymore. Happy boosting from Florida

[@carsonraines1566]

I found the bill nye of dyno testing

[@richardholdener1727]

love the science guy

[@evil03mustang08]

Bill nye is just an actor, though. Richard actually knows what he’s doing.

[@falconater68]

@@evil03mustang08 He has a bachelor in science.

[@AndyFromm]

Bill Nye is a hack

[@evil03mustang08]

falconater68 is it an honorary baccalaureate or a legit one? Which area of research?

[@johncholmes643]

Those Comp Cams polymer valve covers are classic!

[@richardholdener1727]

we wore those suckers out

[@kennyallison7201]

Turbos are beautiful!

[@morganjames7002]

Love the channel. Keep on killing it

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx

[@groovydude8863]

For anyone that has never had a boosted car...they're all fun. All mine have been fuel-injected and intercooled, but every one was a blast to drive. First was an '86 SVO (turned up), then a Paxton 5.0 (6# non-intercooled then 9# intercooled), then a 62 mm China turbo kit 5.0. You want the most bang for your bucks...boost it. These were all street cars that ran pump gas and didn't overheat.

[@davidmack834]

Great video. I've got almost the same centrifugal setup on my wife's 65 Mustang fastback. You asked for suggestions on what to dyno. I would like to see a 300 Ford 6 inline six, also, if you can find one, a DOHC Aussi Ford inline six.

[@HeWhoSitsOnFences]

Would absolutely LOVE to see someone try to crank some serious power or even torque out of a 300 six.

[@BlueCollarBen]

What about the pluses and minuses of twin charging. I believe in you, you can do it.

[@Gregoman89]

I second this.

[@richardholdener1727]

got something like that coming up

[@BATworkshop]

I am twin chargin my mercedes E55 currently. Some dyno data would be extremely useful. I am typing up a email to percision right now to get their opinion on turbo sizing. I currently have a PT6765 from a SHO engine from years ago and I would like to use that but I think it is on the small side for this application. goal is 700whp with the stock blower pulley and a super fun power curve for the street.

[@lanelewis8597]

Fourth this

[@powerstroke0459]

Compounds are the way to go, quick spool with valley charger then the big atmosphere takes over on top end

[@347mav3]

I need one of those roots superchargers!

[@Taluvian]

You want a screw compressor supercharger, way more efficient than a roots.

[@saintblamo]

awesome episode, Ford testing is really interesting. Would love to see coyote boost episode

[@kendalllanpher5457]

Time to do some big block ford boost test. Just for shits and giggles. Love all the small block ford testing

[@PerformanceCustomsMX]

Boost rules!!!

[@utahcountypicazospage5412]

That cam is great for street look at that torque curve immediately no waiting great street light to street light set up

[@LucoreAuto]

What an awesome useful video! Bravo Sir, Bravo! Keep up the great content!

[@177SCmaro]

Interesting thing about roots blowers and why they're not as flat as you might think. Boost changes with volumetric efficiency both of the engine and the blower, itself.

[@corystansbury]

Any idea of the backpressure up top? Pretty surprised to see the turbo making about the same power/psi as the centrifugal. I still don't see why you'd ever run a centrifugal blowers unless you have a crazy high stall or modern 10 speed. Their area under the curve is junk and they are hell on crank snouts. I mean if that's all that will fit or heat is a major issue, I guess, but they never run as fast as the numbers suggest.

[@richardholdener1727]

paxton had about 1 psi more boost at the top

[@corystansbury]

@@richardholdener1727 Yeah, but power/psi were very similar. I'd expect, based on many other similar tests, to see the turbo make substantially more unless backpressure was significant. Turbo was fairly responsive, so may just be a small hotside. One other time we ran into a lot of backpressure on an 1800+ rwhp Viper build ended up being a turbine wheel trim/blade profile mismatch with the compressor wheel. Took a while to figure out.

[@robrem6621]

Great comparison Rich, can you do the same comparison to a BBF?

[@stevewiley3832]

If cost and packaging are of no concern, a well-designed turbo solution will make more power every time.

[@jaydnisevil]

Another great video mate, doing my best to tell people about your channel! Would love to see a video on the difference in header diameters on a turbo setup. From memory Kawasaki and Mazda RX7 Devs found that a smaller diameter pipe/collector (Smaller volume) made the boost response significantly better for minimal trade off up top. For people wondering, another consideration for a pound-pound comparison is that the VE of the setups will be different. 10psi on a turbo isn't likely to be the same mass of air as 10psi on a centrifugal, the exhaust restriction will reduce VE and result in a higher map even though less air is actually being consumed. I believe that's why roots blowers have a rising boost curve on occasion, VE starts reducing the air consumed and leaves more in the manifold for a given fixed blower output. All you'd really be measuring is the effeciency of each setup.

[@casualobserver77]

This was super interesting and fun to watch. Bravo sir.

[@cam3002]

Two tests ideas that I think would be extremely interesting is 1) two engines with same displacement but different bore and stroke. Bonus if same head and compression 2) same displacement with same bore and stroke but one has a long rod (higher rod/stroke ratio) vs. short rod.

[@mp5778]

Great testing. Your boost curve chart and dyno power chart shew exactly the difference between the roots/centrifugal/turbo. I love your choice for the base motor. 8.8:1 and nearly equal hp and tq. Great balance of heads, cam and intake manifold. Interesting at 4900 rpm, at the same boost, the vortech centrifugal makes about 50 more hp and tq compared to the roots supercharger. That show that the roots requires/soaks up 50hp more to drive it compared to the centrifugal for the same boost. Well done, best testing out there!!

[@laurean5998]

Colder Intake air temps due to higher efficiency of the centrifugal supercharger might also increase air density at the same boost. Some of the 50hp could be thanks to the added mass of air.

[@jeffschwartz5199]

Turbos make free power. Expensive plumbing .

[@timoneal9654]

Insightful as always. My take, in general, if you are street driving typically at low RPM the roots blower would likely have the best response but fall off some at high speed. The turbo will likely produce the best maximum power at highest RPM's considering no parasitic loss. The centrifugal blower is a nice combination of both of the previous types. Considering the torque output of the centrifugal you could probably turn a taller gear and bigger tire yet at lower RPM traction may not be a factor since the torque isn't too high. Great data!

[@travispfannmuller7717]

Best channel ever! For your 'other guys' series, please test a ford boat anchor... I mean FE series. Sorry, force of habit. Seriously I would like to see how a 427 or bigger with a variety of aftermarket heads and the better factory heads.

[@acemobile9806]

Stock bottom end, centrifugal. Torque curve much more rod friendly. Ultimate top end rush & overall efficiency, turbo. Top fuel cars & stump pullers, roots blower. Personally I love turbos because the power is practically free & I like a challenge.

[@140horse2]

Richard, a Q & A would be awesome. All these years of knowledge could help a lot of us... surely you get the same questions over and over

[@TheProchargedmopar]

140 Horse Holy smokes!!!! That's an awesome idea. Hey, every other channel is doing it. JUST BE SURE TO ADD A $$ tab for donation/urgent questions. 😝

[@richardholdener1727]

Q&A with Summit Racing tomorrow at noon (EST) I plan on live Q&A sessions and going to discuss junkyard fund$ in a vid soon

[@TheProchargedmopar]

Richard Holdener You talking Sunday noon? This damn bell 🔔 thingy better work to give me an alert or I'm gonna be 😤 😡 😠.

[@escuelaviejafarms]

Excellent job brother!

[@DylanC828]

Something you didn't take into consideration on your saying that load doesn't happen in the real world, which in racing may be true, however when towing there is indeed load on the engine, which is probably why all modern diesels are turbocharged. I only think of this because I will eventually be going turbo on my truck, and I want better power for towing

[@crash5811]

Itd b interesting if u could find a way to demonstrate throttle response on the different setups. Like the particular hesitation between carb, tbfi, mpfi, and direct injection. Then the myriad differences in boost types and plumbing differences.

[@blackcatcracker2012]

Anything on the Ford 300 I6, small block ford letter cams (B,F,E,X) , more in-depth N/A Vortec 4300 or 4 cylinder stuff (Not Honda)

[@chriscrabtree6899]

Great test. Very informative as usual.

[@alltheboost5363]

You can load a turbo like the engine Dyno in a car. it's easy... it's called brake boosting. You can do it while drag racing...roll racing and street racing. Load up the drivetrain until it starts making boost let off the brake and go. If you're Roll Racing you ease into the brake and the throttle at the same time until you reach a desired boost level... let off brake and floor it. If your trying this for the first time be careful you might blow the tires off.

[@richardholdener1727]

its called Power Braking-but that is not the same

[@davidbailey4036]

This is badass. Great work.

[@richardholdener1727]

Thanks a lot!

[@BadassBarney452]

Nice content,keep it coming..

[@jasoncusson7233]

The boost / torque curve reminds of the good ol days when I would brake boost my auto car . 32psi on the brakes. Poor little car. Rest in pieces torque converter and trans.

[@smokenchoken1736]

And to add something, both the superchargers are aldo experiencing losses at the crank from driving them so it makes the gap really tighten up if you think about them

[@scottleggejr]

I've only ever driven a roots blower and turbo car, but the paxton looks like a really good, usable torque curve. I think the cam likes that boost curve the best.

[@nolandonahue1030]

I'd like to see a MPG comparison between the setups. Set the dyno to simulate a highway load, like 2500rpm and putting out a steady 30hp or so, then compare fuel flow. With all 3 setups relatively close in power, the MPG could factor into your decision on which one to get, and how much you actually drive the thing.

[@nadronnocojr]

Awesom Channel my man I’m getting into your style , Enjoyable tech

[@badstimpy]

Great content . Would love to see a SBC head comparison , I have some Victor junior and would love to see a dyno shoot off vs dart / AFI etc. Love the channel !

[@jamest.5001]

Life if like a box of turbos, you never know how much boost you are going to get!!

[@billwhitfield7437]

Turbo for the win every time IMO... Not having to steal torque off the crank.

[@colinrosenthal4296]

Needed to see the twin screw too!! Love the vids!

[@larrylentini5688]

I would love to hear your take on budget engine controllers like Megasquirt and Speeduino and what you think the future of EFI tuning could be. You and others have made huge strides in demystify cheap turbo builds to the extent that most of us are now limited by the largely unchanged electronics (not to dismiss what holly has been doing) that can easily become the primary expense of a cheap EFI turbo build. Even flashing a factory ECU with something like HPTuners is extortionately expensive in my opinion and invalidates most of the silly ideas that lemons and gambler types will be building prolifically as more realistic options are created and popularized. The responses you get to questions of this kind in forums have historically been quite elitist and dismissive of anyone who isn't prepared to "do it right", but that attitude has been changing with the increasing popularity of shows taking after the Roadkill spirit and events like the ones mentioned.

[@richardholdener1727]

they ll work s long s you can get the right af and timing

[@Realtime1501]

It's not about the system but about how it's tuned

[@Evildaddy911]

I'd like to see the 3 types of boost, but set them up to make the same peak power (+/- one or two), then the same peak torque. I think it'd be interesting to see just how much the curve shape varies and the different amounts of boost needed for each

[@Hamza-or7jm]

You forgot one more. The turbo supercharged setup!!! Makes more than all of these setups

[@triplestangman]

Richard you were right on the crankshaft specs it is 3.25 and with a .030 over bore thats a 331 stroker. That said a stock bore would give you a 327.

[@richardholdener1727]

the crank was a 3.20

[@robertkeime4907]

Great video

[@eliasmelendez1271]

You can do that on the street by braking while giving gas at the same time aka brake boosting. Alot of guys that do street racing on the highway or roll racing do brake boosting to give them a better launch front like a 40mph roll

[@richardholdener1727]

power braking does not simulate the WOT stationary dyno load

[@Baddeal]

The centrifugal is off the motor and not heat soaking as bad as the roots which would explain the power difference. Charge Temps should be shown across the 3.

[@apollorobb]

You should compound the roots and the turbo like Detroit did on their diesels

[@TTATurbochargeThemAll]

Roots supercharger with turbos blowing into it. Low and high end together

[@jeremycollins266]

Love the ford stuff

[@BIGTONY2132001]

Yes, I am taking notes!

[@jnljnl8485]

The technology of 4 port boost solenoid and rolling anti lag gives the turbo setup the ability to have almost no downside other than added complexity. The price of the turbos have fallen with the china chargers to make the turbo setup come out even in price when you add the exhaust and plumbing. What would be real interisting is to see bsfc of all the systems also. And on the final note did you het a look at the new Hyundai/kia variable lift cam setup? It looks like its going to be tough and have a large range to work with.

[@TommioRS]

Great video! So when are you doing the 90-95 ZR-1 LT5 engine?

[@richardholdener1727]

westech has one of those

[@allanb3222]

Those are super hard to find, virtually none existent in junkyards.

[@TommioRS]

@@richardholdener1727 Sweet! Lets hope one day you get the time to dyno and play with it!

[@MrOnboc302]

Great video ,I'm changing from the Paxton to twin turbos .had a 6/71 on my engine aswell great for burnouts and wank factor (Aussie slang for looking cool).but to be able to drive on the streets here in Australia the engine needs to be under the bonnet.

[@TheProchargedmopar]

Turbo: flat curve Turbo: rising curve Turbo: boost by gear Turbo: snap, pop, bang, bling, blang Turbo: WITH A POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT BLOWER. Who's ur daddy now? 😂

[@Mattvardaman]

All boost is fantastic!

[@elektro3000]

This was an excellent, really informative comparison. I love the detailed data comparisons. Might have been useful to add a thermocouple at the blower output and chart that against the boost pressure curve to get a better sense of thermal efficiency. But most of all, I really wish you had included a twin screw blower! Out of all four types, I feel like I have the least sense of how that one responds to RPM in terms of boost pressure and thermal efficiency.

[@MrOgre1110]

Great video thanks Richard. The "BEST" type of boost is obviously an electric leaf blower from your local hardware store lol

[@richardholdener1727]

Great point! you might need two

[@MrOgre1110]

If one is good two is better then lol

[@muimasmacho]

Turbo for me. Because i only run automatics. The torque convertor not only allows me to *_Launch On the Boost,_* (powerbrake) but it also multiplies torque under load. The more the load the more the torque converter multiplies torque, plus the more BOOST the turbo makes. Horsepressure galore. A clutch assembly can store energy, but cannøt multiply torque, and you don't make turbo boost unless, and until, you create engine load. Known as Turbo Lag. Jussed sayin' 😶

[@fabricobblegarage9545]

While we’re talking about cooling the intake charge with fuel. Iv always wanted to see how injector placements effects iat, and power. I’ve seen a few manifolds with the secondary staged injectors placed quite a bit farther up the port.

[@richardholdener1727]

injector placement definitely changes charge cooling

[@TheDude2111]

Great comparison video would love the full specs on the turbo or what it's closest too.

[@Dr_Reason]

Roots = great torque but less horsepower due to blower inefficiency and hard to intercool and fit under the hood. Centrifugal = Very good horsepower and sort of a built in lag that only depends on RPM but easiest to fit. Turbo = Oil supply, exhaust routing and heat issues but best power and torque after the turbo spools. Pick your medicine...

[@darrylb5247]

IMHO the Turbo wins in day to day driving....all 3 good for RACING!

[@jeffschwartz5199]

Turbo all the way !

[@timothysanders431]

I will take the single turbo kit . Although I was impressed with the Paxton's

[@deanstevenson6527]

Timothy Sanders : Benson Ford felt the same thing before the Paxton 57 got fitted to the racing Ford Thunderbirds back in the mid 50s.. Time honoured way of smack down boost with a Holley 4bbl carb and a carb hat or box enclosure! Still the same today.

[@Realtime1501]

Maybe you could show how a too big or too small turbo affects power

[@jeffreydurham5342]

Very informative!!!

[@briansshop]

More FORD stuff Richard! How about the twin turbo 427 SBF?

[@topdowntoads3684]

Great video as always! This is one of those age old debates.....which forced induction setup to go with! Have you done a compound boost setup yet?

[@turbhoeheflin1168]

With the Tcc locked you can build pretty good boost at low rpm with a turbo. My 6.2 with a s488 would build boost easily with the TCC locked cruising down the interstate.

[@michaelangelo8001]

Good data.

[@TuLegit2]

Excellent info! Very nice!

[@richardholdener1727]

Glad it was helpful!

[@busij44]

Choices....choices.

[@ruszko726]

Can we get a budget 351 stroker, maybe stock heads stock cam 393 stroker, then aluminum heads stock cam, and after market cam aluminum heads. That be a awesome vid for us slow ford guys

[@richardholdener1727]

i did a lot of testing with a 392 from Ford Racing

[@corymiller3396]

And this man is very mechanically inclined

[@MrBlackbutang]

Sequential twin turbos any day!

[@corymiller3396]

And I'm definitely not hating on you my brother I give you a thumbs up and watch your videos fully if not I go back and watch them just think you could have more subscribers and viewers showing the full process of different options of power

[@deborahchesser7375]

Turbo’s rule, mystery solved.

[@johndavies4644]

Superchargers sound wicked! A piece from here and a pppp piece from there

[@deborahchesser7375]

Adam Slater that’s true, SC’s do make a good sound. Some of the old Detroit Diesel engines had blower’s and turbos.

[@fntony4967]

Rich, one of these days you gotta try compressed air supercharging, its the only BETTER boost. No intercooler needed either.

[@richardholdener1727]

that's coming