Is There Hope For TRAPPIST-1 Planets with James Webb?

What are the limits of James Webb when it's looking for Earth-like atmospheres? What can we possibly find out? Is there any hope for red dwarf stars and their planets to have a potential for habitability? Finding out the answers with Evelyn Macdonald.
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00:00 Intro
01:39 Current observations with Webb
06:14 What could we see in exoplanet atmospheres
12:08 What do planets actually look like
17:41 Future telescopes
19:50 Is there hope for red dwarf star planets?
24:55 Current obsessions
26:34 Final thoughts and more interviews
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[@williamsmithii4804]

Can't wait for an interview with her in 5 years when she has her Doctorate. Would love to hear more about what happens on the Dark Side of those exo planets.

[@jamesfowley4114]

I hope I'm here for that. I'm 65, so there's a chance still.

[@RectalRooter]

Can't wait to play doctor ?

[@jblob5764]

​@@RectalRooter bruh your name along with that comment just line up way too well

[@AnakinSkywalker-mm3gi]

I'm sure she's really smart. But she doesn't interview well at all. I don't think I've watched a more dull interview.

[@richardvanasse9287]

How long does it take for a planet to tideally lock with the star? I've heard that most planets orbiting red dwarf stars will be locked, but wouldn't there have to be a whole lot that are in the process of locking up and are still spinning down? Does the presence of a moon around the planet change how long the tidal locking process will take?

[@jamesfowley4114]

It varies with the mass and makeup of the planet, the mass of the star, the orbital distance, and probably some other variables. The moon locked up pretty early, so it's probably a fairly quick process.

[@Roguescienceguy]

​@@jamesfowley4114she was also much closer to our planet then today and moons around planets inside the habitable zone of red dwarfs are basically impossible. Dr. Kipping did theorise a gasgiant just outside the habitable zone with a minineptune size moon to maybe have some habitability, but that's a long shot.

[@7heHorror]

Great question.

[@matthewcasady6276]

This is an interesting conversation, but I don't think models that are largely unconstrained by data really tell us that much. We need more observations of actual atmospheres in habitable zones so we have something concrete to plug into our models.

[@mattpotter8725]

Totally agree with you. I would love to find water present in the atmosphere of an exoplanet, but nearly every question asked in this interview the answer really was we don't know, maybe. Even if we find water, even if we find chemical signatures that we think can only come from organic matter and living things it doesn't mean life, and definitely doesn't mean intelligent life, it could just be amoebas, which although would be an amazing thing to find isn't really what most people watching this, even Fraser, are really getting excited over. I think the latter part of the interview was better, talking about finding earth-like planets around sun-like stars, ideally non tidally locked ones. There are just so many variables towards life existing and how it gets a foot hold. We don't even know how it did on this planet and there is only likely intelligent life on this planet because of the many mass extinctions, geological processes, and chance events, so it's likely not just having certain chemical elements available in my opinion, if it was we'd probably have found more by now.

[@ericgionet132]

To me any kind of life would be exciting. What we find may be minuscule. But that could be signs of the beginning.

[@yoseidman4166]

Thank you Evelyn!!! So interesting

[@MCsCreations]

Excellent interview, Fraser! Thanks a bunch!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Violence0vAction]

Good Talk - best of luck to EM w research & thx for vid 🤙🏼

[@nathanielbyrne1132]

Even if life turns out to be unlikely around red dwarfs, if around 9 out of 10 star systems are red dwarfs, it only reduces probability by a factor of ten

[@JenniferA886]

Great interview 👍👍👍

[@xyz8512]

Love this stuff!

[@ericgionet132]

Very much enjoyed the interveiw. Nice to see people are thinking out of the box a bit.

[@DanBennett]

This was a nice conversation!

[@opiesmith9270]

Thanks for the interview. I have hope for these systems still! Just you wait.

[@billionsandbillionsofstars]

I actually liked this interview, because I walked away thinking that there’s a small chance that life could be possible on planets around red dwarf stars.

[@synaxarion]

14:09 - So, if the cloud deck cross-section makes M Dwarf terrestrials look bigger than they really are, could that account for some of the "light weight" planets that have been observed?

[@RectalRooter]

My long winded hazard guess is. It would depend if the atmosphere and what ever is in it, would block the sun light, making the dark spot look larger. That would cause us to think the planet is larger -- Throwing the orbit / gravity calculations off -- Making the planet seem less denser than it really is.

[@nerufer]

@frasercain Thanks for doing this one. It means there is still hope and I can keep asking you every month.. wen trappist-e results. And even then we can always say; ah the observation is unclear, we aren't sure.

[@teapot_]

I was wondering if the analysis of atmospheric gases could indicate volcanism, which could make plate tectonics possible. I think this links to your excellent talk with Luis Welbanks. Thanks Fraser. Keep them coming.

[@7heHorror]

Sweet! I think the downside is that the more habitability we're able to find and the more (if any) signs of life, the more likely we're about to be annihilated by a great filter of Fermi's paradox. 😅 We really want to find life but DO WE REALLY. 💀 It's important to know either way. Great work.

[@chris-terrell-liveactive]

Very interesting interview and best wishes for success with her doctorate for Evelyn Macdonald. If you have links to her research papers that would be good to read.

[@Spherical_Cow]

About planetary magnetic fields, I have two questions: 1) could we detect those planetary magnetic fields directly? For instance, by observing auroras on exoplanets, or otherwise detecting polarized radio emissions from them - or is that out of the realm of possibility for current and even upcoming telescopes? 2) would a planet have to spin [relatively] rapidly around its own axis, in order to generate a [sufficiently strong] magnetic field - meaning, tidally locked planets (as well as tidally locked exomoons) can't have strong magnetic fields in the first place? For instance, Venus doesn't have a strong magnetic field despite being otherwise very Earth-like in size and composition - is that because it barely spins at all (a Venusian day lasts for 243 Earth days)?

[@GhostofReason]

Great interview, unfortunate audio. I look forward to the next one!

[@frasercain]

Yeah, it's too bad she didn't have better audio.

[@yghhhhrffv]

⁠@@frasercain good work and I don’t miss your weekly q&a but I can’t stand those interviews. Don’t get it the wrong way, but I think if you focus your channel on those interviews you need to make sure the sound quality is decent on both ends.

[@Rennrogue]

We don't all have a good reason to have a better audio setup. If it's a regular guest then maybe it becomes more important. As long as I can understand what's being said and the subject is interesting I'm happy.

[@7heHorror]

Maybe goes both ways? Get better headphones. 😉

[@doncarlodivargas5497]

Observing n atmosphere around an exo planet is one question, but would it be possible to see the atmosphere without being able to see the exo planet itself? I guess an atmosphere have a larger diameter than the planet, and with dust and clouds etc, the atmosphere may distort the light from a star/sun?

[@jordanbrown4886]

I would say no. You have to know a planet is there in order to observe the atmosphere

[@-Thauma-]

It is. That's what JWST is able of ❤️

[@alfonsopayra]

I like this idea! The moon is actually inside our atmosphere at some level, right?

[@jordanbrown4886]

@@alfonsopayra no. The atomosphere really only extends about 100k above the surface. Even the most generous distance influenced by the atmosphere is less than half way to the moon. But the area above 100k is basically a vacuum and would not be seen by JWST.

[@revmatchtv]

They can’t “see” the planet or atmosphere. It’s a single pixel dot. They can understand the potential atmosphere through many observations using spectral absorption lines. Scientists are looking at a chart, not a photo.

[@kineticdyslexic3093]

We still dont know how many planets Trappist may have. If there are more smaller planets, farther out in the system, they are too dim to be detected and dont have enough gravitational influence on their star.

[@gunnargronvall9385]

Great interview ! Thanks. Can magnetos sheers be detected on these planets? I am 84 and holding my breath to find out!!

[@dmitryshusterman9494]

The real question is there snow there and good skiing, so we know to install ski racks on the spaceship

[@melissabenson679]

Haha

[@caspernetherlands698]

Question for you Fraser: This question assumes the multiverse exists. Does the space between the multiverses expand? Are the distant universes getting away from one another and do the local universes pull / collide with each other?

[@j-pdewhirst2021]

The sci-fi novel Hothouse by Brian Aldiss written in 1962, kind of predicts the weather conditions described here on a tidally locked planet.

[@cafaque]

I love you Evelyn❤❤

[@jblob5764]

Hey Fraser i have a satellite question for you. Currently the parker solar probe is absolutely haulin butt around the sun and the voyagers are still doing their best to escape it... But these all used multiple gravity assist maneuvers to achieve their ludicrous speed. But what is the fastest we could currently send a spacecraft out into the cosmos without using multiple gravity assist maneuvers? If the goal was to propel a 100kg payload as fast as possible just using rocket, nuclear, laser etc propulsion and going full kerbal. How fast could we theoretically get the satellite moving using any currently available technology?

[@RectalRooter]

Knowing this observation. How many other topics can be understood by knowing it. The universe "" wants "" equilibrium. Higher energy will always move towards a lower energy. The larger the difference to faster it will move. i.e If you have a 100 gallon tank full of water and another empty 100 gallon tank. The faster the water will move to equalize the 2 tanks. Electricity, atoms with higher electron counts will move to lower electron counts -- Earth's atmosphere winds, solar energy heats air that rises and colder air sinks -- Rocket engines, high pressure fuel tanks to the low earth atmosphere PSI. A tidal locked planet with an atmosphere should have "" extremer "" winds because the very large temperature difference of the hot / cold sides.

[@BarelyFunctionalTK]

Hi Fraser, I'm a long time lurker but first time commenter on here. I wanted to ask a question about the age of the universe. Since time is relative, is the age of the universe 13.8 billion years old only from our reference point? Is the universe older or younger for other observers? Would someone very near a black hole measure the age of the universe as a lot longer or shorter than 13.8 billion years? Could there be a reference frame where the big bang was a few days or hours or minutes away? Thank you for your content. Sorry if my question was not clear enough or for any grammatical errors. I'm from Pakistan, english is not my first language.

[@topquark22]

Here's the thing about the transit method of exoplanet detection. The probability of an exoplanet being exactly aligned with its star in line with the earth is pretty small. So, given that we've been able to observe so many of these occultations must mean that almost every star has planets around it.

[@hugegamer5988]

And when I was in high school, before the first exoplanet detection, I not only had many other students, but also teachers claim that our solar system was the only one with planets in the entire visible universe. They had no evidence, just a feeling that we were special somehow instead of knowing the basics and realizing most systems must have some kinds of planets as leftover material that didn’t make it into the star.

[@contact2001]

@@hugegamer5988 I beliefe in a few years or decades we have proof that not only our galaxy but also the universe is teaming with live, we are nothing really special but in our minds we think we are……

[@JenniferA886]

👍👍👍

[@3dslug99]

If a planet is 1000 light-years away and they only started emitting detectable signals 500 years ago, would we need to wait another 500 years before we could detect it? I like to think life is everywhere in the Universe, like if there is life 100 million light years away but only become intelligent 50 million years ago we would not no about it for another 50 million years right?

[@Toxickys]

Something like that, if we send back a signal from proxima centauri, then we receive the signal after 4 years, same with telescope observation the farther the planet is the older times we see, btw the real problem is not this, it's the difference between molten/ocean/ice world is almost not really noticable, the error rate is very big, tldr we have better chance to detect technosignature than biological signals

[@jayf6360]

Evelyn is just adorable, all due respect.

[@robertwcote]

You've talked briefly at various times about the ethical issue of a multi-generational crewed interstellar mission. Is it fundamentally different than what we're doing here on Earth? Does an ethical issue really exist, or does it just feel questionable at first glance?

[@ianhopcraft9894]

I think that would depend on the level of risk involved. Good point though.

[@Zuringa]

I have a question I've wanted to know the answer to for years. Would water be the same weight throughout the universe? If so, would it not requite a planet the exact mass of the Earth to achieve that fine balance where it evaporates to just the right height to fall back down as rain?

[@GulmoharBloom]

I don't think I follow the question. Water is the same mass everywhere in the universe, but exotic forms of ice (high pressure and temperature) do have different masses. As for rain, it was my understanding that evaporation and condensation were more reliant on heat and atmospheric composition than planetary mass. Hope this was helpful!

[@MrMedicalUK]

What about Professor Nikku Madhusudhans findings?

[@frasercain]

I think we're going to hear a lot of skepticism about his findings.

[@rossmcleod7983]

He thinks it’s 50/50. Keen to hear why others think less of it.

[@contact2001]

@@frasercainOk, but are you going to cover it or have you done so already? On first glance I can’t find a video of yours about his claims. He seems very legit though, no?

[@jaydonbooth4042]

Boy people are whiny about the audio, it's not great quality but it's totally understandable, which is the important part. It's like people who are used to 4k complaining that 1080p is just awful and unwatchable.

[@rossmcjenkins]

Looks like an interesting topic. Shame about her audio, might be worth shipping people a decent mic ahead of an interview.

[@frasercain]

I do send them, but thought this would be okay. It wasn't, I'll be more careful in the future.

[@googogler]

the audio was fine with headphones

[@EinsteinsHair]

It is common that the audio sounds fine to me as I listen to an interview, then find multiple complaints in the comments. But I used to listen to AM radio, and occasionally I could barely hear the program over the static. It was either that, or watch one of the 3 over-the-air analog TV channels I received, also with analog quality sound. Maybe my mind is trained to tune it out.

[@kaelhooten8468]

The burgeoning tide of an human epoch

[@limabravo6065]

She does know that this is a podcast and not her being led to the gallows right? Nobody's asking for a song and dance but a little enthusiasm might go a long way. In my head im seeing fraiser going cmon gimme more than a one word answer

[@windydreamer]

Do you think that planet nine could be a brown dwarf thus making it so difficult to spot?

[@frasercain]

Telescopes have surveyed the region for anything brown dwarf sized and didn't see it. It can't even be Jupiter or Saturn sized.

[@adammathisson5119]

Assuming infinite water is clearly pointless and not a possibility. so unless the planet have volcanoes or other heat sources on the cold dark side that cause a stream/ocean of water into the edge and warmer side, all water would eventually end up here frozen. and the rest would be a dry desert. it would be a broken system, if there is nothing that bring the frozen water back into the cycle.

[@petercrawford2597]

They will find the Tengri People there.. 👍

[@scottdorfler2551]

❓️Why are Red Dwarf flares so harmful to atmospheres❓️ Do the flares realize more mass do to the stars lower gravity❓️

[@pureambience1714]

I thought game of thrones Winters were symbolic of the Ice King not the planetary system :/

[@Roguescienceguy]

Like whatever... Let's stare at some red dwarfs a bit longer using precious JWST-time so we can churn out some more papers saying the exact same thing we already know... Prime example of the issue in research that was pointed out about a month ago here on this very channel

[@kx4532]

- Log( D)

[@truecrony]

Evel-lyn of planet Eternia will lead the way in bursts of speech followed by 2 seconds of awkward silence. Joking, you're super awesome Evelyn.

[@MonsterMiniVideos]

Tell Evelyn she doesn't need to be so nervous 😬

[@frasercain]

Hah, she's a scientist, not a public speaker. :-)

[@ericthatcher]

What was it like to sing the national anthem at the Oilers game last night. 😂

[@GIRGHGH]

Please oh please oh please make it more obvious when the video is an interview, clicking on one of these expecting just an explanation and getting an interview instead constantly is really annoying.

[@AnakinSkywalker-mm3gi]

She's really smart but doesn't interview well. Very dull.

[@dannypope1860]

Not a good choice for an interview. She seems like a college student… not some kind of expert or scientist.

[@dannypope1860]

This might just be the level of this next generation’s conversational skills though.

[@jaredtbrush]

Shes ripley from alien

[@ondrejdvorak5107]

is this bad mic or the worst case of vocal fry?

[@frasercain]

Bad mic

[@kenyarborough812]

Evelyn, please look up videos about voice fry. It's a practically annoying habit.

[@maybehuman2148]

Next time someone asks why we can't get to the moon anymore despite modern technology, I'll point them to this video. This is the quality of researchers we have now. 😆

[@yghhhhrffv]

Hard to watch those interviews with such a horrible sound quality

[@rudyberkvens-be]

I think some women crack their voice in vocal frye in an attempt to sound deeper and therefore more like males. For the sake of equality. It is widely disliked.

[@wavydonjuan]

Sorry she’s boring

[@njm3211]

Question: can astronomers detect if an exoplanet has a magnetosphere?

[@frasercain]

It's been done at least once now. You can detect radio emissions coming from its auroras.

[@alfonsopayra]

Parece que estuviera sufriendo. Es la cara que yo pondria si estuviera escuchando mi eco cuando hablo. Odio eso, ne hace hablar en cuotas y me distrae. 😅

[@mikemontgomery8407]

I can't even listen to this shity audio.

[@JamesCairney]

That's nice.

[@tactileslut]

Seriously. I like what she has to say but this sounds like it was recorded from a toy underwater. Maybe I should subscribe to Universe Today so he can afford to send people decent microphones at least for a few days. On the plus side, they're both wearing ear pieces so we don't have to deal with echo or the annoying effects of echo cancellation.

[@opiesmith9270]

It’s not that bad! All these people being such babies and crying about it. Geez. Toughen up.

[@nerfherder33]

Geeezus she's not good at interviews.

[@contact2001]

She is a scientist and not a public speaker, you could have realised it yourself…. I found what she had to say very interesting as I like this topic….

[@nerfherder33]

@contact2001 Thanx tips. I had absolutely no idea a scientist would be interviewed on a all science KZbin channel. Good thing you're here to set the record straight or who knows where I'd be.