Is There Salvation Outside the Church??? w/ Dr. Richard DeClue

📺 Full Episode: • All Your Vatican 2 Que...
Richard breaks down what Lumen Gentium means about Salvation outside the visible boundaries outside the Church in light of the Conversations on the same topic contemporary to and preceding the writing of the the document.
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[@ErinKlemz-kz5km]

I saw a quote from an Orthodox priest once that said, “We can know where the Holy Spirit is, but we cannot know where He isn’t.”

[@oatmealtruck7811]

That’s dope

[@josephcade3541]

Wrong the church teaches you cannot judge a man by his heart but you can judge him by what your I see and your ears here

[@wjtruax]

We need to be very clear on this topic when we talk with our Protestant brothers and sisters, many of whom ascribe to doctrines that damn everyone who hasn’t specifically and consciously acknowledged their own sins and Christ as the only possible means of salvation. Often they hear good explanations like this one and immediately believe that we are ascribing to unfettered universalism. I think it is properly Catholic to say that we hold to unconditional universal “opportunity” for salvation but not unconditional universal application of salvation. As the Catechism states, “God has bound salvation to baptism (and the other sacraments), but he himself is not bound to the sacraments.”He may apply salvation to whomever he wishes according to his good pleasure. To his Holy Church God has revealed a definitive plan of salvation. That is the only path of which we are certain. What he has NOT revealed - though many Protestants would disagree - is that the revealed path is also the exclusive path, and that no other paths exist. Because we know the one revealed path, we continue to evangelize because it is the only path of which we are certain, and it is replete with promises of blessing, mercy, grace, peace, and love. The Church teaches that other paths MAY exist and God MAY apply Christ’s salvific work to people formally outside the Church. That would be in keeping with the Father’s character of mercy and grace. We do not try to limit God’s mighty saving hand, neither do we temper our evangelical zeal to bring as many as possible into the fullness of the Christian faith in his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

[@timgentry2239]

Beautifully said

[@wjtruax]

@@timgentry2239 thank you. You’re very kind.

[@parxxcapital]

as a Protestant - thank you for the clarification here. Makes a lot more sense now.

[@wjtruax]

@@parxxcapital thank you for taking time to say so. You’re very kind.

[@ProclaimHisName]

This seems a bit nebulous in my opinion. What would be some of the other paths that you’re referring to? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but are you stating that it MAY be possible that God saves people who have not place their faith in the person and work of Jesus? I just want to make sure I’m not misrepresenting you. Full disclosure, I am a Protestant.

[@marvinrecepcion5827]

Thanks for that clear explanation for those that need clarity. This was lingering in my mind and thanks be to God I finally found it. God Bless!

[@josephcade3541]

There is no salvation outside of the Traditional catholic church. Pope Palagius II,578-590 A.D. Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the church cannot have the Lord… although given over to flames and fires they burn or thrown to wild beasts they lay down their lives there will not be for them that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness such a one can be slain he cannot be crowned if slain outside the Catholic Church he cannot attain the rewards of the Catholic Church. Pope Saint Gregory the Great, 590-604 A.D. - now the Holy Traditional Catholic Church proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped but only within herself, asserting that all they that are outside her shall never be saved !! Pope Sylvester II,991 A.D. I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved. Pope Innocent III, 1198 to 1216 A.D. 4th Council 12:15 A.D. EX-Cathedra Dogma- There is but one universal catholic church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved. Pope Innocent III,Fitts exemplo, to the Archbishop of Terraco, 18 December,1208. By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one true church not of Heretics but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved. Pope Innocent III Fourth Laddering Council, Canon 3, on heresy,1215 A.D.,ex-cathedra Dogma those who are only found suspect of heresy hard to be struck with the sword of anathema, excommunication, unless they prove their innocence by an appropriate purgation, having regard to the reasons for suspicion and the character of the person. Let such persons be avoided by all until they have made adequate satisfaction. Pope Boniface VIII,1302 A.D.- Ex- Cathedra Dogma. There is only one Catholic Church; this we firmly believe in profess without qualification !! Outside this church there is no salvation nor remission of sin. For at the time of the deluge there existed only one Ark, the figure of the one True Catholic Church and all things outside this Ark perished. Pope Eugene IV, 1441 A.D. Ex-Cathedra Dogma, Cantata Domino,Council of Florence - “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church believes professors and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and Heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart, into Everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels unless before the end of life, the same, has been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of any benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of catholic christian service produce Eternal Rewards, and that no one, Whatever arms giving he has practice, even if he has shed his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the traditional catholic church. Pope Leo XII, 1823 to 1829 A.D. We profess that there is no salvation outside the church… for the church is the pillar and ground of the depository of faith ,the traditional Catholic faith. With reference to those words Saint Augustine says: If any be outside the church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for a Father since he has not the church for a Mother. St Gregory XVI, 1831 to 1846 A.D. It is not possible to worship God truly except in the Catholic Church all who are outside her will not be saved. Vatican Council of 1870 Pope Pius IX, Session 2, Profession of Faith, Ex Catholic dogma - This True Catholic Faith, Outside of which none can be saved !! which I now freely profess and truly hold, is what I shall steadfastly maintain and confess, by the help of God, in all its completeness and Purity, until my dying breath, and I shall do my best to ensure that all others do the same, this is what I, the same Pius IX, promise, Vow, and Swear. Pope Pius IX,Quanta Conficiamur Moerore, on promotion of False Doctrine paragraph 13:10, August 1863. Admonish and exhort them to be strong in our sacred Catholic faith without which it is impossible to please God urge them to preserve firmly in the depository of faith, established in our divine religion which alone is true and eternal and prepares for salvation. Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum, Paragraph 10, Dec. 8. 1849 - “In particular ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that - the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining Salvation !! The Catholic laity and clergy should repeatedly offer special thanks to God in public prayers for the Priceless gift of the Catholic religion,- the Depository of Faith. They should also beseech God to protect the profession of this Faith in our country and to keep it pure and unharmed. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion paragraph 20 November 9th 1846 - Never cease to instruct all men in “the depository of faith” the teachings of the church !! Never tolerating and letting pass anything which could in the slightest degree defiled the purity of this faith with the same great strength of heart and mind Foster in all men their Unity with the traditional catholic church outside of which there is no salvation. Pope Pius IX, Ubi Primum paragraph 10 June 17th 1847- For there is one Catholic, universal church, outside of which no one at all is saved ; it contains regular and secular prelates along with those under their jurisdiction, who all profess one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. Pope Pius IX,Singularity Quidam, paragraph 4 March 17th 1856 there is only one Catholic Divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification the Faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to and to come to the community of his Catholic children. Pope Leo XIII, 1878 -1903 A.D. - This is our last lesson to you, receive it, engrave it, in your minds, all of you by God's commandment !! Salvation is to be found nowhere but in the traditional catholic church. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion, Paragraph 15, November 9th,1846 - Also perverse is the shocking Theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this Theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile actions !! They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between Justice and inequity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Jesus Christ and Belial. All the popes Proclaim and decree the same if you disagree with this your excommunicated from the church you're no longer Catholic you no longer have a father in Heaven nor a mother !!!

[@conorwellman8592]

When speaking of earning salvation Jesus said “For human beings it is impossible, but not for God. All things are possible for God.” Jesus teaches us how to live and that we should have faith in him and follow his example. We as Christians are to follow him always participate in the sacraments, avoid sin, and encourage others to follow Jesus as well and correct them when they fall off the path. We are called to spread the truth. However, it is not up to us to decide who is saved or Judge the souls of others. That is only for God. For if we try and decide who God will save and who God will not save we put limits on God for whom all things are possible. Correct the sinner, condemn the sin, and spread the truth that is Jesus Christ but do not judge the soul of others as that is for God alone.

[@markoz673bajen8]

Matt Walsh half Brother Garrett

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

POPE BENEDICT XVI: “The tendency toward jealousy can exist within the Church when Catholics resent holiness and goodness being attained by non-Catholics. Instead we should all be able to always appreciate and respect each other, praising the Lord when he acts in the Church and in the world.”

[@mariawells8026]

Beautiful explanation. Never heard it that way in my 70 years of being Catholic.

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

Probably because it is heresy. Pope Eugene IV and his dogmatic statement at the council of Florence makes it extremely clear that no one existing outside of the Catholic Church can be saved. You have to hold the true Catholic faith whole and inviolate.

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441, ex cathedra: The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

[@Truthseeker3x777]

Amen

[@alonsoACR]

​​​​@@BUCKINATORCHRIS This is an interesting text but, please, allow me to show how I'm reading it? Older texts were written in the way people spoke; that is, without periods. The change from one sentence to the other in this translation is shown with "; that". Let's split that up in sentences and number them, which is how we'd encounter these types of documents today. For some context, this was published during an almost successful attempt at reuniting with the Coptics and the Eastern Orthodox. This historical event is called by many _The Union (of the Churches)._ This one concerns especially the Copts. 1. _The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives._ Pretty straightforward. Extra Ecclessiam Nulla Salus. Gotta join the Church, and the ordinary way to join it is through the Sacraments. This video involves the _extra-ordinary_ ways to join the Church, however. BUT you probably missed a detail here. The Pope said "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes" yet after that talked of "The Catholic Church". Have you seen a Pope call us "the Roman Church" before? Nope, because this is an Ecumenical Council with Orthodox and Coptic bishops present and participating, and the Pope is INCLUDING them as part of the Catholic Church! This was the mood in the whole Council, I'll say more on that later. 2. _That the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards._ To rephrase: The Unity of [the Catholic Church] is so important that only for those who abide in [this Unity] have [valid sacraments, efficacy, etc.] It seems that "Ecclesiastical body" includes the Copts, who are the ones being addressed. "Unity" here refers to the very matter at hand, the Union of the Churches. The exhortation appears to be that if the delegates reject the Unity, they risk damnation. The Church recognizes Coptic and Orthodox sacraments to be valid today, and they did so back then as well. When the Orthodox accepted the Union (albeit for a short time) their bishops, priests, patriarchs, baptisms, etc. were respected as valid and that were always valid. The current mood of that Council was one of bringing Unity to the Catholic Church, and the Church included them as part of that Church in "imperfect" ways. Whether the Pope should lead the Church wasn't even a question, mostly just what the Pope's role should be. This is, in fact, what the divide is almost entirely about today as well. See the Ravenna Document, signed in 2002 by the Pope and all Eastern Orthodox Patriarchs. 3. _Nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church._ Again, you have to be in the Church to be saved. You can't "make it up" with works. No one can merit their own salvation. ...and what was the Catholic Church according to the attendants? Not just the "Holy Roman Church", as we saw in point (1)

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

@@alonsoACR Your copy pasta takes giant heretical leaps and bounds. The Pope is the Roman Pontiff, the head of the Catholic Church. How have you construed that schismatic "orthodox", that is outside of the Church, are part of the Church? What modernist mind games are you trying to play. The Catholic Church has never recognized that a heretical sects false eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, that is a false vatican II belief. The eastern "orthodox do not have valid sacraments. You need to become a traditional Catholic to be saved. "By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not one of heretics but the Holy Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no on is saved." Pope Innocent III, Eius Exemplo, December 18,1208

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

Pope Pius IX stated in 1864: “Men can, in the practice of any religion, find the way of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation.” And, in 1846, he stated: “One ought to at least have good hope for the eternal salvation of all those who in no way dwell in the true Church of Christ.”

[@Arkangilos]

Matt, could you get them to answer the actual arguments rather than miss the arguments and make some false reason we say that? He said “well the original statement!” But the original statement isn’t what we are going off of. I will post the following, which they have never addressed. Please, next time, ask them to make it square with these, not with a comment that wasn’t relevant: From the Catechism of Pope Pius X Those Outside the Communion of Saints 223. (10) Who are they who do not belong to the Communion of Saints? A. Those who are damned do not belong to the Communion of Saints in the other life; and in this life those who belong neither to the body nor to the soul of the Church, that is, those who are in mortal sin, and who are outside the true Church. 224. (11) Who are they who are outside the true Church? A. Outside the true Church are: Infidels, Jews, heretics, apostates, schismatics, and the excommunicated. 170. (29) But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved? A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation (so he still needs baptism). -- From the Council of Florence: It firmly believes, professes and preaches that never was anyone, conceived by a man and a woman, liberated from the devil’s dominion except by faith in our lord Jesus Christ, the mediator between God and humanity, who was conceived without sin, was born and died. He alone by his death overthrew the enemy of the human race, cancelling our sins, and unlocked the entrance to the heavenly kingdom, which the first man by his sin had locked against himself and all his posterity. All the holy sacrifices sacraments and ceremonies of the old Testament had prefigured that he would come at some time. … It firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the catholic church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the catholic church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that *nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the catholic church.* -- From the Syllabus of Errors: Condemned Error of Modernism: 17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. - Encyclical “Quanto conficiamur,” Aug. 10, 1863, etc

[@bumponalog5001]

Thank you for posting this. This isn't a complicated question. We have been given the answer very clearly.

[@nicholasgeranios]

Awesome!! Thank you!!

[@WT-Sherman]

Just because a theological idea existed before the Council, doesn’t make it true. There were countless bad teachings floating around before the Council. It’s one reason why the Council was called - To try to enact these ideas. Does it save souls by telling people they don’t need to be Catholic ? How’s that working out ?

[@nickk4851]

The state of the world and the Church is so much more complicated than this one issue. Don't try to hang it all around this neck. Besides, it doesn't matter if people will abuse that truth and try to use it as an excuse - that's on them, and these are the people who are probably less likely to be saved anyway. John chapter 6 also caused lots of disciples to turn away ... still true. And your summary of what is being said lacks the necessary nuance and gives a false impression of what they are rather obviously saying, "... through no fault of their own ...". Come on now.

[@WT-Sherman]

Oh really ? At the Amazon Synod, a South American Bishop proudly claimed that he has never baptized anyone. Just before the recent World Youth Day, the Bishop from Portugal heading up the event stated - “ our intentions are not to bring anyone to Jesus Christ”. Recently, Pope Francis scolded a mother for converting her adopted Muslim children to the Catholic Church. This is where this “nuanced” pile of rubbish has taken us.

[@nickk4851]

@@WT-Sherman No, that's where a person's will has taken them.

[@andrewlane7486]

Msgr. Joseph Clifford Fenton has the best book on this doctrine, which addresses every magisterial pronouncement on the topic. “Salvation and the Catholic Church”.

[@natesbrakes3608]

“If you’re united with Christ, by faith, you are by definition, united to His Church” I think that was the most succinct (and accurate) statement I’ve heard from a Catholic when discussing this matter. Although when I hear the word church I don’t hear “the Roman Catholic institution “ I simply hear “the people who have been called by God and are following Jesus”. So that spans all the denominations. And by extension, there are also people in the RC institution (and all denominations) who are NOT following Jesus and therefore NOT in His Church… I feel like the closer you get to the original meaning of the words in question, the easier it is to understand.

[@josephcade3541]

There is no salvation outside of the Traditional catholic church. Pope Palagius II,578-590 A.D. Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the church cannot have the Lord… although given over to flames and fires they burn or thrown to wild beasts they lay down their lives there will not be for them that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness such a one can be slain he cannot be crowned if slain outside the Catholic Church he cannot attain the rewards of the Catholic Church. Pope Saint Gregory the Great, 590-604 A.D. - now the Holy Traditional Catholic Church proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped but only within herself, asserting that all they that are outside her shall never be saved !! Pope Sylvester II,991 A.D. I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved. Pope Innocent III, 1198 to 1216 A.D. 4th Council 12:15 A.D. EX-Cathedra Dogma- There is but one universal catholic church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved. Pope Innocent III,Fitts exemplo, to the Archbishop of Terraco, 18 December,1208. By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one true church not of Heretics but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved. Pope Innocent III Fourth Laddering Council, Canon 3, on heresy,1215 A.D.,ex-cathedra Dogma those who are only found suspect of heresy hard to be struck with the sword of anathema, excommunication, unless they prove their innocence by an appropriate purgation, having regard to the reasons for suspicion and the character of the person. Let such persons be avoided by all until they have made adequate satisfaction. Pope Boniface VIII,1302 A.D.- Ex- Cathedra Dogma. There is only one Catholic Church; this we firmly believe in profess without qualification !! Outside this church there is no salvation nor remission of sin. For at the time of the deluge there existed only one Ark, the figure of the one True Catholic Church and all things outside this Ark perished. Pope Eugene IV, 1441 A.D. Ex-Cathedra Dogma, Cantata Domino,Council of Florence - “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church believes professors and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and Heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart, into Everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels unless before the end of life, the same, has been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of any benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of catholic christian service produce Eternal Rewards, and that no one, Whatever arms giving he has practice, even if he has shed his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the traditional catholic church. Pope Leo XII, 1823 to 1829 A.D. We profess that there is no salvation outside the church… for the church is the pillar and ground of the depository of faith ,the traditional Catholic faith. With reference to those words Saint Augustine says: If any be outside the church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for a Father since he has not the church for a Mother. St Gregory XVI, 1831 to 1846 A.D. It is not possible to worship God truly except in the Catholic Church all who are outside her will not be saved. Vatican Council of 1870 Pope Pius IX, Session 2, Profession of Faith, Ex Catholic dogma - This True Catholic Faith, Outside of which none can be saved !! which I now freely profess and truly hold, is what I shall steadfastly maintain and confess, by the help of God, in all its completeness and Purity, until my dying breath, and I shall do my best to ensure that all others do the same, this is what I, the same Pius IX, promise, Vow, and Swear. Pope Pius IX,Quanta Conficiamur Moerore, on promotion of False Doctrine paragraph 13:10, August 1863. Admonish and exhort them to be strong in our sacred Catholic faith without which it is impossible to please God urge them to preserve firmly in the depository of faith, established in our divine religion which alone is true and eternal and prepares for salvation. Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum, Paragraph 10, Dec. 8. 1849 - “In particular ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that - the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining Salvation !! The Catholic laity and clergy should repeatedly offer special thanks to God in public prayers for the Priceless gift of the Catholic religion,- the Depository of Faith. They should also beseech God to protect the profession of this Faith in our country and to keep it pure and unharmed. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion paragraph 20 November 9th 1846 - Never cease to instruct all men in “the depository of faith” the teachings of the church !! Never tolerating and letting pass anything which could in the slightest degree defiled the purity of this faith with the same great strength of heart and mind Foster in all men their Unity with the traditional catholic church outside of which there is no salvation. Pope Pius IX, Ubi Primum paragraph 10 June 17th 1847- For there is one Catholic, universal church, outside of which no one at all is saved ; it contains regular and secular prelates along with those under their jurisdiction, who all profess one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. Pope Pius IX,Singularity Quidam, paragraph 4 March 17th 1856 there is only one Catholic Divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification the Faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to and to come to the community of his Catholic children. Pope Leo XIII, 1878 -1903 A.D. - This is our last lesson to you, receive it, engrave it, in your minds, all of you by God's commandment !! Salvation is to be found nowhere but in the traditional catholic church. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion, Paragraph 15, November 9th,1846 - Also perverse is the shocking Theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this Theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile actions !! They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between Justice and inequity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Jesus Christ and Belial. All the popes Proclaim and decree the same if you disagree with this your excommunicated from the church you're no longer Catholic you no longer have a father in Heaven nor a mother !!!

[@TrumpeterOnFire]

It always struck me as quite easy to square the seeming contradiction, with acknowledging that the visible Church is not the entirety of the Church. And the easiest way to see that is in baptism by desire. Those who are baptized by desire are members of the Church even though they haven't been formally baptized. So since we know such people exist, we know there are brothers and sisters who are members of the Church but neither of us perhaps know it right now.

[@WT-Sherman]

Of course there are exceptions for rare circumstances - The Good Thief on the Cross was saved without Baptism. But this does not cancel out the Normative Route to Salvation clearly displayed in Scripture. One must be baptized into the Church that Christ built of which He is the Head.

[@sleepystar1638]

@@WT-Sherman This is contrary to the Bible and Papal documents, all saints are Baptized, you cannot get into Heaven without Water baptism

[@ComicRaptor8850]

@@sleepystar1638 Documents like Session 6 Chapter 4 and Session 7 Canon 4 of the Council of Trent?

[@sleepystar1638]

@@ComicRaptor8850 i was thinking Benedictus Deus On the Beatific Vision of God Pope Benedict XII - 1334 Constitution issued by Pope Benedict XII in 1336 ""By this Constitution which is to remain in force for ever, we, with apostolic authority, define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints who departed from this world before the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ and also of the holy apostles, martyrs, confessors, virgins and other faithful who died after receiving the holy baptism of Christ- provided they were not in need of any purification when they died, or will not be in need of any when they die in the future, or else, if they then needed or will need some purification, after they have been purified after death-and again the souls of children who have been reborn by the same baptism of Christ or will be when baptism is conferred on them, if they die before attaining the use of free will: all these souls, immediately (mox) after death and, in the case of those in need of purification, after the purification mentioned above, since the ascension of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ into heaven, already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment, have been, are and will be with Christ in heaven, in the heavenly kingdom and paradise, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the passion and death of the Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and see the divine essense with an intuitive vision and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature by way of object of vision; rather the divine essence immediately manifests itself to them, plainly, clearly and openly, and in this vision they enjoy the divine essence . Moreover, by this vision and enjoyment the souls of those who have already died are truly blessed and have eternal life and rest. Also the souls of those who will die in the future will see the same divine essence and will enjoy it before the general judgment."" Session 6 chapter 7 of Trent Literally describes how the first fruit of the Spirit is Justice and that Faith Hope and Charity are instilled IN BAPTISM, so you cannot even have the true faith Without Baptism. Fourth Lateran Council Ecumenical Council ""There is indeed one universal church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice. His body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the forms of bread and wine, the bread and wine having been changed in substance, by God’s power, into his body and blood, so that in order to achieve this mystery of unity we receive from God what he received from us. Nobody can effect this sacrament except a priest who has been properly ordained according to the church’s keys, which Jesus Christ himself gave to the apostles and their successors. But the sacrament of baptism is consecrated in water at the invocation of the undivided Trinity - namely Father, Son and holy Spirit - and brings salvation to both children and adults when it is correctly carried out by anyone in the form laid down by the church. If someone falls into sin after having received baptism, he or she can always be restored through true penitence. For not only virgins and the continent but also married persons find favour with God by right faith and good actions and deserve to attain to eternal blessedness."" Council of Vienne Ecumenical Council ""All are faithfully to profess that there is one baptism which regenerates all those baptized in Christ, just as there is one God and one faith’. We believe that when baptism is administered in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit, it is a perfect means of salvation for both adults and children. Yet because, as regards the effect of baptism in children, we find that certain theologians have held contrary opinions, some saying that by baptism guilt is indeed remitted in infants but grace is not conferred, others on the contrary asserting that both guilt is remitted and the virtues and sanctifying grace are infused with regard to habit though for the time being not with regard to use, we, considering the general efficacy of Christ’s death, which through baptism is applied in like manner to all the baptised, choose, with the approval of the sacred council, the second opinion, which says that sanctifying grace and the virtues are conferred in baptism on both infants and adults, as more probable and more in harmony with the words of the saints and of modern doctors of theology."" So yeah 3 ecumenical councils that are pure Dogma say word for word WATER BAPTISM. Cardinal Kushing was instrumental in excommunicating Fr Feeney, Kushing is also the Ghost Writer for Nostra Aetate, its all on wiki. Modernism literally cut down the prophet. Kushing was also the Pocket priest of the Kennedys, and its speculative but i think its somehow related in Kennedys death, because he would have confessed to him personally.

[@josephcade3541]

There is no salvation outside of the Traditional catholic church. Pope Palagius II,578-590 A.D. Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the church cannot have the Lord… although given over to flames and fires they burn or thrown to wild beasts they lay down their lives there will not be for them that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness such a one can be slain he cannot be crowned if slain outside the Catholic Church he cannot attain the rewards of the Catholic Church. Pope Saint Gregory the Great, 590-604 A.D. - now the Holy Traditional Catholic Church proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped but only within herself, asserting that all they that are outside her shall never be saved !! Pope Sylvester II,991 A.D. I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved. Pope Innocent III, 1198 to 1216 A.D. 4th Council 12:15 A.D. EX-Cathedra Dogma- There is but one universal catholic church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved. Pope Innocent III,Fitts exemplo, to the Archbishop of Terraco, 18 December,1208. By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one true church not of Heretics but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved. Pope Innocent III Fourth Laddering Council, Canon 3, on heresy,1215 A.D.,ex-cathedra Dogma those who are only found suspect of heresy hard to be struck with the sword of anathema, excommunication, unless they prove their innocence by an appropriate purgation, having regard to the reasons for suspicion and the character of the person. Let such persons be avoided by all until they have made adequate satisfaction. Pope Boniface VIII,1302 A.D.- Ex- Cathedra Dogma. There is only one Catholic Church; this we firmly believe in profess without qualification !! Outside this church there is no salvation nor remission of sin. For at the time of the deluge there existed only one Ark, the figure of the one True Catholic Church and all things outside this Ark perished. Pope Eugene IV, 1441 A.D. Ex-Cathedra Dogma, Cantata Domino,Council of Florence - “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church believes professors and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and Heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart, into Everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels unless before the end of life, the same, has been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of any benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of catholic christian service produce Eternal Rewards, and that no one, Whatever arms giving he has practice, even if he has shed his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the traditional catholic church. Pope Leo XII, 1823 to 1829 A.D. We profess that there is no salvation outside the church… for the church is the pillar and ground of the depository of faith ,the traditional Catholic faith. With reference to those words Saint Augustine says: If any be outside the church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for a Father since he has not the church for a Mother. St Gregory XVI, 1831 to 1846 A.D. It is not possible to worship God truly except in the Catholic Church all who are outside her will not be saved. Vatican Council of 1870 Pope Pius IX, Session 2, Profession of Faith, Ex Catholic dogma - This True Catholic Faith, Outside of which none can be saved !! which I now freely profess and truly hold, is what I shall steadfastly maintain and confess, by the help of God, in all its completeness and Purity, until my dying breath, and I shall do my best to ensure that all others do the same, this is what I, the same Pius IX, promise, Vow, and Swear. Pope Pius IX,Quanta Conficiamur Moerore, on promotion of False Doctrine paragraph 13:10, August 1863. Admonish and exhort them to be strong in our sacred Catholic faith without which it is impossible to please God urge them to preserve firmly in the depository of faith, established in our divine religion which alone is true and eternal and prepares for salvation. Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum, Paragraph 10, Dec. 8. 1849 - “In particular ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that - the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining Salvation !! The Catholic laity and clergy should repeatedly offer special thanks to God in public prayers for the Priceless gift of the Catholic religion,- the Depository of Faith. They should also beseech God to protect the profession of this Faith in our country and to keep it pure and unharmed. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion paragraph 20 November 9th 1846 - Never cease to instruct all men in “the depository of faith” the teachings of the church !! Never tolerating and letting pass anything which could in the slightest degree defiled the purity of this faith with the same great strength of heart and mind Foster in all men their Unity with the traditional catholic church outside of which there is no salvation. Pope Pius IX, Ubi Primum paragraph 10 June 17th 1847- For there is one Catholic, universal church, outside of which no one at all is saved ; it contains regular and secular prelates along with those under their jurisdiction, who all profess one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. Pope Pius IX,Singularity Quidam, paragraph 4 March 17th 1856 there is only one Catholic Divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification the Faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and to and to come to the community of his Catholic children. Pope Leo XIII, 1878 -1903 A.D. - This is our last lesson to you, receive it, engrave it, in your minds, all of you by God's commandment !! Salvation is to be found nowhere but in the traditional catholic church. Pope Pius IX,Qui Pluribus, on faith and religion, Paragraph 15, November 9th,1846 - Also perverse is the shocking Theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this Theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile actions !! They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between Justice and inequity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Jesus Christ and Belial. All the popes Proclaim and decree the same if you disagree with this your excommunicated from the church you're no longer Catholic you no longer have a father in Heaven nor a mother !!!

[@mikeishida4021]

thank you for doing this. Tell Dr De Clue someone from his Catholic U days says hi (Fr Mike Ishida)

[@pf4005]

If it was just a matter of conscience, Jesus didn’t have to come.

[@nickk4851]

Which is true, He didn't. Not one drop of His precious blood needed to be spilt. It was an act of complete charity, and the specifics of His "why" for coming and doing what He did will ultimately remain a mystery to us.

[@ZachFish-]

@@nickk4851This does not sound like Christianity at all.

[@nickk4851]

@@ZachFish- Well, I encourage you to look into it. These aren't my ideas. Maybe ask a theologian or a trusted source you know personally. Pax

[@ZachFish-]

@@nickk4851 Assuming that’s of some Catholic understanding? I wouldn’t even think that from what I’ve learned from any Christian teachings though.

[@nickk4851]

@@ZachFish- Struck me as odd too, but yes, this was from Catholic sources (speakers/theologians). God could've simply declared us redeemed (what He says, is), but He chose to redeem us by the cross.

[@wallakadj4036]

Thank you Bedros Keuilian for explaining this so good..I didnt know that you are a Catholic 🤔

[@victoriacastro1729]

That's why I love Christian Catholic faith

[@baldwinthefourth4098]

I used to have a problem with EENS but not anymore.

[@leekflower1]

Chaplain of our parish this Sunday just reinforced the card carrying view this Sunday and I'm trying to discern how to address it

[@user-vi8dh8kq8y]

The grace of God flows in many and varied channels. It is NOT limited to the Catholic Church. Those familiar with the bible will recognize that the criteria given for salvation cannot be claimed by a single church.

[@Patrick_919]

The word mentioned at 4:03 is Feeneyite in case anyone else was trying to research it further.

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the Gospel revelation or enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace, which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.”

[@richarddunn9286]

I've heard it said that non-Catholics are only saved to the extent with which they are Catholic. For example, most protestant baptisms are catholic (the formula and rite of baptism is ultimately catholic), and they read the new testament which is a catholic book. This extends to non Christians too, anyone who seeks to follow God is really seeking Catholicism, they just don't know it.

[@ZachFish-]

Does not sound like Christianity anymore.

[@Wilkins325]

This line of thought helped me reconcile the fact that despite Catholicism being the fully true church, there can also exist Protestants that earnestly seek God and do not realize their invisible connection to the Church. For a long time I did not want to convert because I was surrounded by such faithful Christians who happened to be non-Catholic.

[@danielparham5232]

@@Wilkins325 Salvation is not through the church though, it's only by God's grace given to us through our faith in Christ.

[@sleepystar1638]

@@ZachFish- LOL tell me how ignorant you are without telling me how ignorant you are

[@ZachFish-]

@@sleepystar1638 Take a break from KZbin for a bit..

[@jiherrera7418]

The term i never heard him say, that I am sure that he is aware of is "Invincible Ignorance." Look it up... ...negate that. He eventually used a similar phrase "Inculpable Ignorance..."

[@NP-vk8de]

This is a more charitable explanation than that which is purported by many zealot fundamentalist Catholics. There is hope for the Catholic Church to show compassion and love to fellow Christians. Otherwise, it is an ugly wart on Catholicism.

[@BobbyFriston]

That wasn't a picture of Australian aborigines at 1.37. Tasmania is missing from your wooden Australia on the shelf behind you. Shall I sculpt a little wooden Tassie for you to position beneath the mainland ? I'm new to the bible. What does "Be still and know that I am God" mean? People outside the church have been "still" for centuries.

[@OkapisRu1e]

Matt mentioned a while back that it's kind of part of a joke that there's no Tasmania. He recalled going there and asking if they take Australian dollars just to mess with them.

[@BobbyFriston]

@@OkapisRu1e My bad. I wonder where it went.

[@Freeman_Gunner]

What are protestants if not schismatics? Also how can someone who knowingly separates themselves or conscientiously chooses to not join themselves the body of the Church while alive be joined to the Churches soul at the moment of death?

[@me-ds2il]

This explanation is acceptable. Roman Catholics need clarification

[@user-ds9sy6fi2m]

Feenyism was not condemned by Pope Pius XII, it was "condemned" by modernists. The guest mentioned that those who didn't hear of Jesus and maintain morality can be saved. Well Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos: "This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained." Pope Eugen IV, Cantate Domino: "It [The Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." Pope Eugen says that pagans cannot be saved (contrary to the things stated in this video). Today this dogma has been reduced to a meaningless formula. There is ABSOLUTELY no salvation outside the Chruch. I hope this information helps someone...

[@ComicRaptor8850]

Baptism by explicit desire has been defined in the Council of Trent, and baptism by implicit desire has been taught by the Magisterium in numerous papal documents and in the Vatican II documents.

[@DavidLarson100]

Your quotes prove nothing. In the first one, it says they can't be saved "by the profession of any kind of religion." True. It's not the profession of false religions that would save them. In the second quote it says that those not "living within the Catholic Church are not saved." Also true. All are saved through the Church, even those who are not Catholic. In the third quote, you say the extra ecclessia nul sallus line, which the Church does NOT take to mean only Catholics go to heaven. In fact, believing that is a HERESY called Feeneyism. Don't be so Catholic you put yourself out of the Church.

[@drjanitor3747]

@@ComicRaptor8850no actually Trent doesn’t teach Baptism of desire, it teaches the opposite. There isn’t a single dogmatic decree defining BOD.

[@kafinn5302]

That wasn’t very convincing. I need documentation for the Pius X references. PLEASE SOMEONE ANYONE. 🙏

[@palermotrapani9067]

Go find the Catechism of Pius X. It is available online as I think it is in the public domain. What Richard stated is indeed in the Catechism of Pius X which was a catechism designed for the Parishes in the Diocese of Rome from Pope Pius X in his role as the Bishop of Rome published in 1905 and made available in English a few years later. It is similar to the Baltimore Catechism used in the USA starting in the 19th century and used well into the 1960's which was in a Q&A format.

[@AlejandroHerrera-fl1tn]

And what about people who knows the existence of Jesus and the Catholic Faith, but rejected because of prejudice, ignorance or a cultural thing? Is there saalvation for them?

[@nickk4851]

Only God knows the depth of the human heart, and He alone is worthy (and capable) of just judgement.

[@AlejandroHerrera-fl1tn]

@@nickk4851 but then is no need of the Church.

[@ZachFish-]

@@AlejandroHerrera-fl1tnWhat’s the Church in your definition?

[@AlejandroHerrera-fl1tn]

@@ZachFish- it's a lot of things. But with this particular case is "The Instrument of Salvation".

[@ZachFish-]

@@AlejandroHerrera-fl1tn Gotcha, so “no need for the church in terms of salvation”. (I’m not Catholic and don’t believe that, I was just taken by the statement, as if the church would have no purpose).

[@fantasia55]

How can any Protestant go to heaven, if by never going to confession they die in a state of mortal sin?

[@turnmeondeadman4221]

Jesus never talked about mortal sin .

[@benbennett5301]

By confessing their sins to Jesus and each other.

[@ComicRaptor8850]

Reconciliation is the normative means for forgiveness of mortal sins. However, perfect contrition (sorrow for one's sins out of love for God) can obtain that forgiveness provided that the person has recourse to the sacrament. Protestants who have perfect contrition for their mortal sins can obtain salvation since they are not at fault for not knowing the necessity of Reconciliation.

[@fantasia55]

@@ComicRaptor8850 That means it's easier for Protestants to get to heaven than Catholics.

[@ComicRaptor8850]

@@fantasia55 That's not true. Contrition applies to both Catholics and Protestants. Remember, this only applies to Protestants who are inculpable for their ignorance of the Catholic faith. And only Catholics receive the sacramental graces from Reconciliation, giving them the help to not commit future mortal sins. So I'd say that it's the Catholics that have the advantage.

[@MikePasqqsaPekiM]

The alternative literal view is horrifying. People in many cases would go to hell merely because they lived in the wrong place at the wrong time. Middle-aged, living in South America AD 1? No chance. Proponents of this heresy better be the most active, intense missionaries of all time, too, since millions of unreached people are dying every year. There are fascinating messianic prophesies predating the Christian Gospel all over the world. Read “Eternity in their Hearts”. Many, many people who heard the Gospel for the first time were ready to hear it, in some ways more prepared than some westerners today. Our Awesome God is not limited to His Sacraments.

[@drjanitor3747]

“Proponents to this heresy”. It’s a dogma, you deny it: that makes you the heretic.

[@davidmoore4769]

The thief on the cross was not a member of the "church."

[@themanufan8]

god judges accordingly. ill stick to being a lifelong faithful member of the church instead of waiting till im on my deathbed. If I said i want to be your friend but only after 10 years from now you'd probably not consider me a very good friend.

[@Arkangilos]

Yea he was. He was circumcised (which was necessary prior to baptism), and he, like the good Jews, was looking forward to the coming salvation of Christ, which meant he was part of the Church like the prophets and fathers of Israel.

[@marcbrowna8936]

He made a good confession, public at that, received absolution from Jesus, and was baptized by desire. He was absolutely Catholic.

[@drjanitor3747]

@@marcbrowna8936baptism of desire is non sense

[@billstrom351]

I like his presentation I find him pleasant to listen to, but he is off base when he is talking about the dogma EENS. St. Cyprian is not he source for Catholics. It has been defined by the council of Florence as dogma. Pope Pius X, The Oath Against Modernism, - (1910 AD) “Fourthly, I sincerely hold that the doctrine of faith was handed down to us from the apostles through the orthodox Fathers in exactly the same meaning and always in the same purport. Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously.” Why didn't you ask him about "Dare we hope all are saved.." ? Since he works for Bishop Barron.

[@billstrom351]

drive.google.com/file/d/10tHZGk-nlIRNAzDF7c2pBh3y8y8yFJl6/view

[@nickk4851]

Bishop Barron clarified he doesn't believe all people will be saved. He's using the same "all" that we see in the Fatima prayer.

[@timburns201]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rojYcmOphcpgibs

[@billstrom351]

@@nickk4851 I don't think he clarified. His use of the Fatima prayer in a equivocation. God desires all to be saved but not all will be. The Fatima prayer is just praying for everyone not assuming that ALL may be saved because Christ and the Church has taught otherwise. The Council of Quiersy in 853 stated that, "not all will be saved" (Denz. No. 318); and Pius II in 1459 even condemned the opinion "That all Christians are to be saved" (Denz. No. 717[b]); THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX: "17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ." -- Condemned SYLLABUS CONDEMNING THE ERRORS OF THE MODERNISTS--LAMENTABILI SANE, Pius X July 3, 1907 (#24): "24. The exegete who constructs premises from which it follows that dogmas are historically false or doubtful is not to be reproved as long as he does not directly deny the dogmas themselves ."-- Condemned

[@billstrom351]

Also it really isn't nuanced at all. One doctor of the Church used by BoDers, Alphonsus Liguori , does not hold a lose understanding of salvation: “How many are born among the pagans, among the Jews, among the Mohometans and heretics, and all are lost.” [Sermons of St. Alphonsus Liguori, Tan Books, 1982, p. 219])

[@Darth_Vader258]

Jesus Christ ✝️ the Judge *JUDGES* the Heart and He will JUDGE it based on Love 💕 alone.

[@jameskoleff6281]

John 3:36 NKJV He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

[@taxfree4]

As Christ said at the Last Supper, and in the Consecration of the True Mass "...this is the new and everlasting covenant, it will be shed for you and for MANY.." There is no salvation outside the Church. the whole raison d'etre of the Church is the salvation of souls.

[@DavidLarson100]

If you mean that one has to be Catholic to be saved, then you are in error, specifically that's the Feeneyite heresy.

[@taxfree4]

@@DavidLarson100 baptism of desire is sufficient for justification but not for salvation. The Council of Trent anathematizes anyone who believes the contrary. Whether it one of the 3 baptisms it still is within the purview of the Catholic Church. That is why in the Good Friday Mass the prayers of the reproaches pray for conversion of heretics, schismatics, pagans, Jews and Protestants. In the Consecration to the Sacred Heart we also pray for the conversion of the Jews and those involved "in the darkness of idolatry or of Islamism."

[@DavidLarson100]

@@taxfree4 I'm not sure I understand your point. People are justified and not saved? What do you mean it's within the purview of the Catholic Church? Of course. People are saved by being part of Christ's body (the Church), but the point is that many who are part of the body might not know they are. They are being guided on a trajectory that, maybe over much longer than their lifetimes, would take them formally into the Church, but that's not necessary, just the desire to follow God (truth, beauty, goodness). As Benedict XVI said in Spe Salvi, the great majority have this desire. Maybe an easier way to discuss this is, what about Feeneyism do you reject?

[@taxfree4]

@@DavidLarson100 I'll type slower. You seem to answer your own question "What do you mean it's within the purview of the Catholic Church? Of course " So whether it is 1 of the 3 baptisms, not in the Protestant Church or in a Jewish Temple there is no argument. Feeney has nothing to do with this. These days, as far as the Novus Ordo I would not blame anyone for NOT being baptized in these heretical temples.

[@DavidLarson100]

@@taxfree4 It actually doesn't matter how fast you type. It's your clarity that's the issue. You still are not making sense. Now the "Norvus Ordo" AKA the current Catholic Mass, is not good enough either? Very jumbled contradictory thinking. Basically, you're a Feeneyite and want to be the only one in heaven. Thankfully the Church has denounced your cruel view.

[@DavidLarson100]

Looking at these comments I'm blown away by just how many Catholics are disturbed by the idea that God actually is trying to save all souls, rather than just a few SuperCatholics. Do you really want anyone (even Stalin) to be tormented for eternity for finite sins? I don't. Give him as long in purgatory as is needed for his soul to be rid of sin and to merit the beatific vision, but I'm not sure many of you have thought about what eternity actually means. Of course as a Catholic, I believe it's possible to be separated from God (aka go to hell), but I pray earnestly that none are lost and if you actually want that for anyone, I hold that you do not love your neighbor or your enemy. Many of you are Feeneyites who think they are orthodox, because it sounds less compromising, but have rejected declared doctrine on this subject. The irony is you declare one has to believe everything the Church teaches in order to be saved.... while rejecting the Church teaching that you don't. You better hope for your own sakes that you're wrong.

[@DavidLarson100]

Just as an addendum: It's also funny to see the begrudginly non-Feeneyite ones of you who will admit that Baptism of Desire is real but then say, "But it's very, very rare!" Oh really? You know how many Jesus will save and why? You know how Jesus is going to judge a non-Catholic girl who was molested and then committed suicide? Or a Muslim who is brainwashed into thinking he is doing God's will by killing? Or a Protestant who goes to church every Sunday, prays every morning, devotes their time to charity? Or a loving Jewish mother who is kidnapped, tortured by Hamas, and executed? Right down to the eternal flames with her and you have no objections (and would even be offended if she isn't sent to unending torment)? What of all those other countless people that Christ loves and died for? I also do not know how Christ will judge them, but He is just. If I could not hope for these, I honestly don't know that I could continue in my faith.

[@GrislyAtoms12]

There's no such thing as finite sins. The effects of sin propagate through all of time.

[@DavidLarson100]

@@GrislyAtoms12 I agree the effects of sin propogate through time. I was saying finite in that they were a single action made in a single moment. In the time of God, moments are always the present, so in that sense I agree with you too. That moment will live on forever.

[@TommyRushing]

"In way only known to God" is a classic theistic method of allowing contradictions.

[@DavidLarson100]

It's not a contradiction to say that one needs to be part of Christ's body (his Church) to be saved, but that not everyone who is part of the Church is in perfect relationship to the Church. To deny this is to be a Feeneyite.

[@Cadpat07]

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church -if someone is saved its because of the Catholic Church-I’d recommend listing to Fr Issac and looking at some Sensus Fidelium videos. They explain it better there.

[@imago9059]

Outside of Jesus there is no salvation.

[@CatholicChristian51]

What Jesus, your interpretation?

[@mojarmawema1]

No, Outside the Catholic Church, there is no salvation.. the context of that is you really have to live as a practicing Catholic… but this doesn’t mean any Bible studio group false Christian denominations are saved

[@NP-vk8de]

@@mojarmawema1. C’est n’est pas vrai!

[@a1erii]

@@AlcuinOfYork-lp1pqNo. Jesus taught us the Seven Sacraments which are only found in the Catholic Church.

[@Electric_]

@@AlcuinOfYork-lp1pqthe Eastern Orthodox Church is declared to have valid orders by the Catholic Church(in many or most cases), so despite their schism they may be validly ordained, and thus outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. A person who is non-Catholic might go to purgatory under specific conditions. The only sure way to heaven is following the Sacraments of the Catholic Church, which is the safe path Christ created for mankind. A Protestant group is prone to severe error that can lead to damnation. The Sacraments keep us on the straight and narrow when we faithfully follow them.

[@Christcentric7]

There’s no salvation outside of the Triune God!!!

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

...and the Catholic Church.

[@Christcentric7]

@@BUCKINATORCHRIS No, Christ paid for our sins to purchase a Bride for Himself. The Bride cannot save herself.

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

@@Christcentric7 You cannot worship Christ unless you are in His Church. Jesus founded a Church (Mt. 16:18-19), and He said you must hear it (Mt. 18:17).

[@Christcentric7]

@@BUCKINATORCHRIS I am in his church the church universal composed of many tribes and nations. I also attend a reformed Presbyterian church which I am a member of.

[@BUCKINATORCHRIS]

@@Christcentric7 There is only one Church the Catholic Church. You are in a heretical sect on the road to hell.

[@lukyguy1240]

Who/what is the soul of the church? And why do you think the church has a soul? Any Biblical reason to assume it's a thing? I'm not a Catholic, but at least for me it seems clear as mud.

[@turnmeondeadman4221]

Jesus said no one comes to the father except through me, not there is no salvation outside the church.

[@palermotrapani9067]

That does not negate salvation outside the Church since the Church was founded by Christ and his his Body and Bride and thus the Instrument by which Christ grace is dispensed to humanity. So all Salvation comes from Christ though His Body the Church where all the means of grace is available for fallen humanity.

[@iaseyes333]

"People of Good will" can still be saved.

[@mojarmawema1]

No, Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation… you should be a practicing Catholic to be reasonably and hopefully to be saved.

[@iaseyes333]

@@mojarmawema1 "Can be saved" is what the council teaches. I'll stick with them because it makes sense not to condemn people to hell who through no fault of their own never came to the fullness of truth. Sadly there are some outside the church who are more loving than the judges inside the church. Lord have mercy on us.

[@rubemartur8239]

@@mojarmawema1 how a baby can practice a religion? it can be saved with baptism, right? or it needs to receive the Holy Eucharisty? Can babies that dies inside uterus of a catholic mother being saved? I'm doctor, and my questions as sincere, as children dies everyday, either by accident, negligence or crime. Does innocent have same punishment as a mortal sinner, just because of the original sin? is original sin a mortal sin? isnt it venial sin? If its a condenation anyway, cannot God applies the effect of baptism in ways we currently dont know, in case there is no way for the children to get a baptism with rites? the baptism still obligation, as the cathecism explains, also God is omniscient, we could know all of it.

[@jd3jefferson556]

Everyone in heaven is Catholic, however not everyone in heaven lived what looked like to the outside world as a Catholic life, and found Jesus and the Church before they took their last breath. Which is why we in the Church right now should be praying for pagans and all sinners and seperated brethren

[@me-ds2il]

Someone could point out that they [non-Christians] do not know the Lord, and that apart from the Lord there is no salvation. But no one is saved because of knowing about the Lord. We are saved because we live by his commandments. Further, the Lord is known to everyone who believes in God because the Lord is the God of heaven and earth, as he tells us in Matthew 28:18 and elsewhere.

[@rubemartur8239]

How a baby can practice a religion? it can be saved with baptism alone, right? or it needs to receive the Holy Eucharisty yet? The Holy Scripture says we need to eat the Body of the Lord to be with Him, its a expression to an act iself, or it implies a condition to salvation? Can babies that dies inside uterus of a catholic mother being saved? I'm doctor, and my questions as sincere, as children dies everyday, either by accident, negligence or crime. Does innocent have same punishment as a mortal sinner, just because of the original sin? is original sin a mortal sin? isnt it venial sin? If its a condenation anyway, cannot God applies the effect of baptism in ways we currently dont know, in case there is no way for the children to get a baptism with rites? the baptism still obligation, as the cathecism explains, also God is omniscient, He could know all of it.

[@kevinwoplin9322]

No .....its not complicated

[@andonedave]

Dr. DeClue kinda resembles Matt Walsh.

[@AntonAchondoa]

Dr. Declue is basically Matt Walsh chilled out after he has a snickers bar.

[@damnedmadman]

It's simple - on the gate of Heaven you will see the inscription "The Catholic Church". Whoever gets there, will be saved.

[@robls9493]

Where are you discerning this from? I'm honestly asking a serious question.

[@damnedmadman]

@@robls9493 God has only one family which is called the Church, there is no division in Heaven.

[@rubemartur8239]

How this applies to babies non baptized that dies? without baptism there is not salvation, ok. It implies a necesity. Does God have ways to apply that, even we are not knowing?

[@williamwightman8409]

There is no memory of your human biases, sins, church affiliations, politics, hobbies... after you return the body to the ground. You cannot bring things or thoughts with you. You can pretend so until the time comes however. The Great Forgetting. "For there is no respect of persons with God." - Romans 2:11.

[@damnedmadman]

@@williamwightman8409 Bullshit. This verse speaks about something completely different.

[@pawepawe5854]

That was a straw man argument. Aboriginal Australians ? It was easy.... What about Protestants, Schismatics, heretics? Church is Christus,, that is true. There is one Church and it is called Catholic Church. As You, dear friends in Christ mentioned Lumen Genrium so You should have mentioned the relevant condition related to salvation... Namely invincible ignorance...not just any ignorance...

[@smugism1685]

Wouldn't that be works based salvation? Not a christian, but this is probably one of the reasons blocking me from becoming one. The way to achieve salvation is to know who Jesus was. But there have been millions of people throughout history who have died without having heard of the gospels. Millions who have died and went to hell without even getting a chance. So it begs the question why would a all loving God would have such a setup for salvation that most of his creations wouldn't even know about so therefore they died and are burning in hell for all eternity.

[@uriahthehittite1672]

Burning in hell for no fault of their own? No. God is mercy AND justice. Two sides of the same coin. It is not works based salvation. Please read the epistle of James. Men are saved by their response to God dependent on their opportunity. "In my Father's house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you." Modern day man has a great advantage but also a great responsibility. People alive in many parts of the world, especially the west, have the opportunity and 'obligation' to explore the truth of God. Jews, Muslims, Protestants, etc. live in a world with phenomenal opportunity to search the truth. To whom much is given, much is expected. The parable of the talents makes that clear. To not do so is negligence. We have been extremely blessed to know the fullness of truth through the Catholic church. At least explore it. Let us not squander that blessing.

[@michaelfoeofevil5587]

The fullness of Christ is through the Catholic Church and the Sacraments. All graces flow from the Catholic Church to all people on earth, this is why Christ promised that His Church would be around until the end of the world. Clearly, we are living through something quite terrible because that is being caused directly from the hierarchy of the Church. I do believe that there is no Salvation Outside the Catholic Faith. I know a lot of people believe that the Bible alone is all that you need, however this certainly can be dangerous. So many translations, cultures, etc....the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion or division. This is why Francis is having a hard time trying to get the Church to bless same-sex unions and trying to dialogue with pagan religions. Only God can fix the current situation in the Church. therefore the world. Just study the Catholicism prior to Vatican II and do your best to follow it. Most Protestants I know are more Catholic than Francis. God hep us.

[@CashFreedman]

What about the orthodox?

[@laurencehomolka1927]

It would appear that Jesus Himself answered this question in saying "The Kingdom of God lies within." To me this is a clear expression of his loving, humanitarian and all-inclusive view of humanity.

[@laurencehomolka1927]

when I asked Monsignor Duval of St. Monica's this question he replied "When you get to Heaven you will be surprised who you meet there!."

[@turnmeondeadman4221]

Exactly . He never said there is no salvation outside the church or talked about mortal sin

[@clivejames5058]

@@turnmeondeadman4221 St Paul talks about mortal sin though (1 Cor 6:9-10)

[@mattb4249]

Where in the inspired scriptures does it say salvation comes only through the RCC?

[@danielsmallwood4310]

This is misrepresning the teaching of Vatican 2, which states that non-Catholic religions are a MEANS of salvation. That cannot be equated with a theoretical aboriginal who acts according to his conscience, and God working in mysterious ways.

[@IONov990]

Does this mean Catholics do not have to go to confession or fulfill the other sacraments to enter heaven? Why is leaving the church considered bad? I like the idea that God's judgment is a mystery.

[@nickk4851]

The Church and her sacraments are a gift - not a burden. Sacraments are visible signs of the invisible reality of God's grace. To knowingly refuse that grace indicates a refusal of God. Yes, God is a mystery and He alone judges a person.

[@IONov990]

@@nickk4851 Do you see Christianity as a self improvement plan? I think I love the Catholic faith because of its fullness and beauty. I guess when I committed foolish sins I cannot claim ignorance. There is so much responsibility when you know right from wrong. There is guilt and shame for your failures. Even if you repent, remnants of your sinful behavior remains. Would you like me to pray for you?

[@nickk4851]

@@IONov990 Hmm I don't think you understood my comment. Nonetheless, I always appreciate prayers 🙏 thank you, and peace.

[@lubormrazek5545]

This guy should have been a detective, what a waste of a good name😂😂

[@lorainehitt9977]

There is no salvation outside the church because the church is Christ’s body. If you are in Christ, you are in the church. But Christ is the one who teaches us what salvation and the church really are. You can be in the “church” without being in Christ.

[@sleepystar1638]

FAITH IS GIVEN IN WATER BAPTISM< THE FIRST FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT IS JUSTICE NOT FAITH HOPE AND CHARITY READ TRENT

[@ryan.mccombs_rep]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Vatican II is false and so is implicit faith and implicit baptism of desire. Baptism of desire only applies to those with an explicit knowledge of and desire for Baptism, but are prevented from receiving it by death. Furthermore, one is judged not only by the revelation they received, but also by their works. How many people are so ignorant and innocent to be the exception to the rule? Few if any. Hard truth.

[@mojarmawema1]

Outside the Catholic Church, there is no salvation… period..we have a reasonable hope that Catholics can be saved… the rest who are into false religion but live like Catholics can be saved depending on God’s grace… BUT! Nowadays, there is no excuse at all not to learn the Truth of the Catholic Faith…..this doesn’t mean Protestants, Buddhists, Muslims etc.. can be saved…

[@classicalteacher]

There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church because Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church and there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

[@nickk4851]

If by Catholic Church you are referring to the Church Triumphant, than sure. But of course, non-Catholics this side of heaven can be saved.

[@classicalteacher]

@@nickk4851 sure. By God's grace alone and if they agree to the teaching of Christ's Holy Catholic Church. When the Prot meets Christ when they die, only He will judge their invincible ignorance. So, it's better to obey Christ in life and live the Catholic Faith as Jesus commanded. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

[@nickk4851]

@@classicalteacher Agreed!

[@benbennett5301]

Remember that you don't own Jesus, Jesus owns you.

[@classicalteacher]

@@benbennett5301 I am only something because Jesus is everything.

[@ignaciop9850]

Excellent! If everyone gets saved, then I'll go back to my old sinning habits, because I'll be saved anyway 🤡. THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

[@lhetzel101]

CATHOLIC CHURCH = A-B we have the sacraments DESIRE OF --LONG ROAD BUT IT WILL GET YOU THERE --LUKEWARM CHRISTIANS (Lutheran ect) -all I can say is Purgatory is real-don’t die in mortal sin--again purgatory is real

[@mariahmartinez3900]

NO ! 🙏🕊❤️📿

[@jesusvergara3749]

I have come to believe that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. I see how non-Catholics mistreat, maligned and disrespect our Blessed Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ,. They consider the Holy Eucharist as just symbol.They reject the Catholic Church which Jesus built. Faith must be whole not selective. Salvation is not cheap. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[@southernlady1109]

Jesus Christ established His One True Apostolic Catholic Church and Doctrine with His apostles, before His Passion. He rebuked the Pharisees and Scribes for making their own version of His Church and Doctrine, like all 44,000 other Christian Churches and other Faiths have done. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54 2 John 1:9 Everyone who withdraws and does not remain in the doctrine of Christ, DOES NOT HAVE GOD. Whoever remains in the doctrine, such a one as this has both the Father and the Son. The Catholic Church is the pillar of truth 1Tim 3:15 The Catholic Church is The Bride of Christ Eph 5:22-33, Rev 22:17

[@aarondaniels629]

They are not baptized, how can they be saved?...When did Jesus say ignorance can save you? If that was the case he should have hid the gospel and saved more by ignorance. Narrow is the path to salvation and FEW find it...not hundreds of millions of aboriginals...

[@nickk4851]

Maybe we should stop treating our faith like it's some sort of great burden that we Catholics have to bear, and stop this non-sense that not being Catholic would be an easier road to salvation. Our faith is a gift, not a burden. Two different kinds of ignorance. One is willful, the other is not. God's judgement is perfect, and He judges the human heart, not whether or not someone received the sacrament of baptism. Sacraments are signs that signify and accomplish, but you better believe God can accomplish without the sign - the sign part is for us who are receiving.

[@Arkangilos]

@@nickk4851 here me out: the people that did not have God revealed to them had no right to have God revealed to them. God waited to give Salvation to the world. Then He waited to spread that salvation to Europe. Then He waited to spread that Salvation to the new world. God didn’t reveal it to them earlier for His reasons, but the dogma is the dogma.

[@Wilkins325]

@@Arkangilos The faith is not Eurocentric. It is Universal.

[@Arkangilos]

@@Wilkins325 I never said it was Eurocentric. Nor did I say it wasn’t universal. (Although it is Roman). However, one still has to be part of it. And if God did not give the graces to people to be part of it, it is not for me to say those graces were not necessary. Those in the new world did not have the option to join the Church, and the reason was God’s. So I’m not going to try and figure out why they didn’t. Plato, Socrates, etc. we’re all born outside the Church and died outside the Church. None of us are going, “oh they are in heaven.” No, God chose to withhold salvation from those before Christ for whatever reason He wanted. Salvation is a gift given according to God’s will, not yours.

[@nickk4851]

@@Arkangilos I don't understand what you're getting at. Are you saying that people whom God didn't reveal Himself to can't be saved?

[@brendanbutler1238]

All People of good will, will be saved.

[@kimjjesusiscomingsoon]

The Catholic rituals and rules go clearly against the teachings in the Bible. As born again believers, we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are adopted by our Father in heaven. “So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭7‬ ‭NIV‬‬ Therefore, the church leaders should be “brothers”, not Fathers. “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23‬:‭9‬ ‭NIV‬‬ We also have no need of an earthly priest for confession or forgiveness as Jesus is our great high Priest. “where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭20‬ ‭NIV‬‬ “And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NIV‬‬ It is “through HIM”. ““Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you.” ‭‭Acts‬ ‭13‬:‭38‬ ‭NIV‬‬ The Word also does not permit us praying (worshipping) anyone but the Father, through the Son. ““You shall have no other gods before me.” ‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭3‬ ‭NIV‬‬ This means that rosary beads, St. Christopher statues, etc, Should not be used in prayer. Repent of these things. “For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm NOR CAN THEY DO ANY GOOD.”” ‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭10‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NIV‬‬ “Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every goldsmith is shamed by his idols. The images he makes are a fraud; they have no breath in them. They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish.” ‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭10‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NIV‬‬ “They worshiped their idols, which became a snare to them.” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭106‬:‭36‬ ‭NIV‬‬ To know for yourself what the truth of God’s word really is, read and study it for yourself, praying that the Holy Spirit would give you knowledge, wisdom and discernment. “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭15‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭10‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭25‬:‭2‬ ‭NIV‬‬ May he reveal his truth to you in this moment, for the hour is late. Jesus will return for his Bride, the church. “So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭44‬ ‭NIV‬‬ ““Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning,” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭12‬:‭35‬ ‭NIV‬‬

[@MrTrecamp1]

"Outside of the Catholic church there is no salvation. " He was trying to stop people from leaving Catholicism and going into "protestantism" aka biblical Christianity

[@josephesquivel4066]

Wrong

[@rubemartur8239]

He quoted phrase from the first milenium father... thats not biased as protestantism didnt existed

[@Mr.10X.]

​@josephesquivel4066 Lactantius (died A.D. 310): "It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation." (The Divine Institutes) Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): "Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. ...Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward." (The Fathers of the Church) Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): "As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. ...This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. ...And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church's enemies are also my enemies." (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology) Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): "Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Enchiridion Patristicum) Venerable Bede (died A.D. 735): "Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside." (Hexaemeron) Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): "There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church." (Summa Theologiae) Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): "Outside the Church there is no salvation...therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins'...For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church." (De Sacramento Baptismi)

[@gavasiarobinssson5108]

Faith is not needed. What is needed is that you fed Him when He was hungry, tended to Him when He was sick, clothed Him when He was naked.....

[@rschiwal]

No, not true. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, all your soul and all your strength. The Second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. You cannot do one and skip the other. God demands faith, love forgiveness and love in action. He doesn't demand 100% accuracy.

[@gavasiarobinssson5108]

@@rschiwal i didnt write about commands but about salvation. Yesterdays gospel is where you can find what I referred to.

[@pawepawe5854]

​@@gavasiarobinssson5108you are so wrong and what you say is actually a heresy and is a result of misunderstanding of the gospel. This is why a Catholic Church is needed.

[@nickk4851]

What you are giving example of is what we would call implicit faith, but it's still faith.

[@ZachFish-]

So what I’m getting from this video is that people are saved by acting with “good morals”. I just don’t see how faith could be in a man who doesn’t even believe in God or Jesus.

[@johnfal1849]

0:13 Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ as taught by the apostles. Jesus NEVER is recorded declaring one denomination saves or belonging to some group of people. You're completely missing His teachings and have not carefully studied the Gospels if you believe this. John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

[@tom8979]

If the Catholic Church is the only place where the true , whole Christian Faith is found, how can there be salvation outside of the true, whole Christian Faith?

[@mousakandah5188]

//Jesus NEVER is recorded declaring one denomination saves// that's simply false, Jesus says that those who disobey the Church are to be treated as gentiles and tax collectors and St. Paul says that Christ is the savior of the body which is the Church

[@davided9881]

💤

[@D-H-Be]

@@mousakandah5188he doesn't say it either. he must know that orthodox dominations save too. but there were enough "christian" domination which were heretical like early nosterian churches who had depected jesus nature wrongly.

[@rubenmartinez4346]

The Trinity is also never declared but here we are believing in the Trinity.

[@reillydevine12]

This issue is what drove me away from the Catholic church and into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, it just makes so much more sense

[@DavidLarson100]

Wow. Mormonism makes more sense than Baptism of Desire? If any religion is clearly false, it's Mormonism. It's so absurd on every level. It's like Bible fan fiction that went way too far.

[@reillydevine12]

Man I haven't heard that one before, you really burned me. Arrogance and religious bigotry is not a Christlike attribute, but it sure is a Catholic and Protestant attribute! @@DavidLarson100

[@DavidLarson100]

@@reillydevine12 Fair enough, and my apologies if that came off harsh. But Baptism of Desire is not a very difficult concept. It's just that those who desire truth earnestly are pursuing Christ's body (the Catholic Church), even if they don't know that's what they are pursuing. It's a way of believing we have the truth without condemning all those who believe things we think aren't true. Otherwise we get pulled into a very depressing reality of almost everyone burning forever on one hand or complete relativism on the other.

[@reillydevine12]

I appreciate the apology, I just assumed Catholics would understand what it is like to be unfairly attacked and misrepresented. I agree that the thought that 99% of mankind will be damned for eternity is very depressing and wrong. That is why I love what the LDS Chruch teaches on the subject. Christ commands everyone to be baptized in order to be saved but millions have never had the chance, that's why baptisms and preaching to the dead is so incredible (1 Corinthians 15) (1 Peter 3) It solved the issue, God's law that baptism is essential for salvation yet also giving everyone an equal chance satisfies my soul. God doesn't have to break his laws. @@DavidLarson100

[@batissta44]

Lol

[@annie5441]

TAKE JESUS AT HIS WORD: WHEN JESUS SAID, “THE FATHER IS THE ONE TRUE GOD,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 17:3). WHEN JESUS SAID “HE CAME TO DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER AND TO FINISH HIS WORK,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 4:34). WHEN JESUS SAID THAT “GOD GAVE HIM LIFE,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 5:26). WHEN HE SAYS, “HE CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 5:30). WHEN JESUS SAYS “HE HAS NOT SPOKEN OF HIMSELF BUT OF THE FATHER WHO SENT HIM,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 12:49-50). WHEN HE SAYS, “HE WILL SHOW US PLAINLY OF THE FATHER,” BELIEVE HIM (JOHN 16:25). WE MUST BELIEVE JESUS BECAUSE HE IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE WITH THE FATHER (JOHN 14:6).