Is There Something Going on With the Nikon Z6 III Sensor? | The PetaPixel Podcast

[@JohnDrummondPhoto]

"Three Blind Men and an Elephant" refers to the parable of three blind men describing an elephant by feeling different parts of it. One feels its legs and declares it's like a tree. One feels its side and says it's like a wall. The third feels its trunk and says it's like a snake. They don't get the full picture from just its parts.

[@bishfrie]

Wow thanks for pointing that out, that seems to be what it refers to

[@PetaPixel]

Hugh also messaged me to explain this and yeah, I definitely have heard this parable before. The more you know! -Jaron

[@robert_may]

As it's the title of this podcast I'll add some extra context from my findings as I originally reported the flickering issue and people keep doubting it: it's not just at high ISO, I can see it even at ISO 800 (the lower base ISO), and it's visible in every format bar SDR by default, as HLG and N-Log raise the shadows. The original footage I found the issue on was taken in bright sunlight and shows heavy flickering in the shadows despite being exposed correctly, recorded in N-Log in h.265. I can provide that original footage on request to anyone who wants to verify it themselves. Both myself and testcams then did more controlled tests with different exposures, and you can see the flickering is there underneath it all. As testcams reported, this is likely due to a variance in reading the black level from the sensor. Interestingly this also affects photos in the form of colour casts in the noise, and he discovered that quite a bit earlier than I saw the video fault. Whether it's consistent across different camera copies, I don't know, because most people are having trouble replicating the degree of flickering I encountered in my original footage.

[@geoffreybassett6741]

Same results for me, even at base ISO if you raise the shadows the Flickr is there.

[@JimVajda82]

Sounds like there may be differences between cameras. My Z6iii video performance is just like Jordan described.

[@robert_may]

@@JimVajda82 ​ Yeah there could well be. The test I did on my second video where I recorded NRAW with the body cap on and then pulled the exposure up in Davinci Resolve might be the easiest way to compare results from different copies as it doesn't depend on external conditions.

[@joshkiddfilms1295]

@@robert_may I have to underexpose 800 pretty badly and then raise the shadows to see any flicker at that specific ISO. With ETTR, and especially in daylight, It's producing a very clean image for me without any noise really. As I read your comment earlier, and then shot some stuff today as bright as I could without clipping highlights, I then took it all back and looked at it in Resolve. The ETTR stuff was clean of flicker, even at +100 shadows. The few clips I had intentionally under exposed to protect a lamp, those showed some flicker at +100, but were ok when I didn't raise the shadows. Obviously it's an issue, and Im hoping all the publicity of it will cause Nikon to come up with a fix, but ETTR does seem to be effective for the most part, at least for me, to produce flicker free images, even at 6400. It's the underexposing imo that really starts to show this issue creeping in. That being said, the images where I ETTR'ed I think look phenomenal, and in general even the DR for video seems good enough to me, so I am hoping they address the issue, because I think this camera has so much potential for video...and if you are familiar working with the Z9/Z8, im sure you occasionally underexpose to stretch the range and then clean up the noise, so if we can get to the point where thats possible without flicker I think its a major win of a camera.

[@robert_may]

​@@joshkiddfilms1295 Ooh interesting, thanks for the additional testing! Yeah overexposing might be a good solution for cleaner video on this - the only real downside being that the LUT makes exposing highlights correctly a bit of a pain (because it's all over the place depending on exposure) so I guess you'll likely need to expose mostly via the waveform. And yeah I think it'll be a really solid video camera for most people, especially if they address this somehow in firmware. My original plan was to replace my S5IIX so I don't have to run two separate lens systems, but ultimately I couldn't justify getting rid of a camera that works reliably for one currently causing me issues 😅

[@anilaboutme]

The flickering also happens if you shoot in a contrasty environment with a low iso like 800 and you cranck up the shadows in post. So not only at high iso.

[@yawningmarmot]

I wish you guys would cover other companies' issues as much as Nikon. Panasonic S5II and G9II audio issues, moire and fake USB 3 speeds, Sony's and Canon's random overheating (even in photo mode for Canon R8), and so on. They fly ubder the radar exactly because they are not picked up by major publications.

[@seaotter42]

If you think the Canon overheating issues were undercovered, you're not paying attention.

[@felm.974]

Bingo.

[@yawningmarmot]

@@seaotter42 It seems they were not really covered in the case of newer cameras like the Canon R8. I have not seen major outlets like PetaPixel or DPReview cover those issues in a dedicated article if at all (like they did with the R5).

[@dennisnguyen8105]

Tell me you're a Nikon "fan" without telling me you're a Nikon "fan".

[@yawningmarmot]

@@dennisnguyen8105 The last Nikon I had was D80 back in 2010, but nice try :)

[@lionheart4424]

Darktable is amazing for editing photos, really pays off to start learning it.

[@anilaboutme]

Is the Nikon z6 III supported now?

[@problemat1que]

@@anilaboutme "now?" It was only just introduced and all we have is a preview video where they weren't allowed to process raw yet.

[@problemat1que]

The guy with his i5 and 32GB ram could just buy a $100 graphics card and use darktable and everything else with hardware acceleration

[@FoTomgraphy]

Hi guys, loving this week's podcast [still listening]! Regarding Pentax $70 Firmware Update - You guys were saying you're happy to subsidize dev costs for new features.. and I only partially agree, especially with the K-1 it makes sense since it's been out for so long, however, I don't think it would be a good message to give to manufacturers that they can release a camera with "premature" firmware, charge $3k for it, then charge for "updates" adding [read: unlocking] "new" features. Or God forbid, get the BAD idea of firmware updates subscriptions [like Mercedes charging a subscription for heated car seats or BMW a subscription for automatic headlights., ridiculous]. So yeah, it may make sense some times, like with the K-1, but I wouldn't be happy to pay for every firmware update, even if they're adding features, like MOST companies do - Olympus/OM, Fuji, Sony [for the most part].. Best regards!

[@POVwithRC]

Well, I do not think there is cause to think they will be releasing half baked firmware just to charge extra to make it right. Because people like you and many others would destroy their bussy so thoroughly and publicly that they would give up on that business model as fast as Toyota did when they tried to paywall remote start.

[@Wildridefilms]

ISO doesn't matter if you're shooting in RAW. Everything above 6400 ISO on the Z6III (NLog) is just shot at 6400 ISO sensitivity and lifted up. The same happens with compressed formats but the compression kills the deep shadows and thus you lose the exposure flexibility of RAW. So if you find flickering at 51200, you'll find it at 6400 too with a 3 stop lift. And a lot of the tests indicate that flickering is very noticeable even at 800 ISO (Nlog 1st base) with about 3 stop exposure lift.

[@joshkiddfilms1295]

This is precisely the same reason why exposing as bright as possible without clipping is so effective on this camera, and why sticking to the base ISOs while you do this makes such a difference. It's not a long term solution, as underexposing N-raw at times can be helpful, but it does help avoid this issue in the meantime, while we wait for Nikon's response. Alternatively, we have people losing their minds because they can't get a clean image at 5000 iso, and it's just counterintuitive to how a dual gain sensor camera should be shot.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

I went through a sharp knife phase where I bought Japanese sharpening stones and made my knives razor sharp. I received a minor but deep cut trying to wash and another time my thumb when cutting. I learned my lesson whether cutting or cleaning they demand your undivided attention and require proper holding technique where fingers including the thumb are curled back never extended.

[@ScottJWaldron]

26:20 It's cool that Pentax is adding more astrophotography functionality. Add to that the astrotracking feature and it seems like a fun all-in-one solution. 48:00 I'm looking forward to new Panasonic Lumix models so the S5ii drops more in price, lol! I'd love a few of those. Though Sony is generally more appealing due to how much native E-mount glass there is.

[@livejames9374]

You guys are fair and balanced. I do think since highlighting Z6iii being a stop below others with the mechanical shutter at least be forthcoming that R6ii is a full stop below Z6iii in electronic shutter, that’s not “comparably low as Z6iii” like Chris claimed it’s “comparably worse” like Z6iii performance vs others in mech shutter.

[@FawfulDied]

R6ii also uses forced NR below ISO 1600, according to photonstophotos

[@quite1enough]

26:32 Pentax K-1 II isn't quite the same camera in the sense that mark II are baking noise reduction in raw files, while K-1 Mark I - not. And that noise reduction could potentially harm astro shots :(

[@JacekWPhoto]

The Z6III has issues on several levels... - Nikon not providing enough details about the technology and reviewers finding out the quirks on their own - Nikon users who will never get the camera but will complain about the camera's quirks showing up in situation that those user's never would shoot in - Other system users who will never get the camera but will now mock the Z6III for its issues... None of those are really the fault of the camera, which is fantastic and whoever will buy it probably knows why they are buying it :)

[@Blitz_Shorts]

The complaints are vastly from users who don't own Nikon Z6iii. The ones who own it absolutely don't care about the small quirks , cause who underexposes images by -5 EV, for landscapes people use AE bracketing. It offers some flagship features at a midrange price and has top notch video features.

[@phenanrithe]

You can hardly blame a constructor for not providing details on a new technology that's expected to give them a competitive edge. They'd be foolish to do so. Any new technology has its rough edges, and iterations smooth that out. People know that, or at least they should. Besides, the quirks happen in pretty remote conditions, and most reviewers and users only saw it after reading about it elsewhere.

[@quite1enough]

I wonder if there's same flickering issue in video in Nikon ZF and how AF of ZF and Z6III compares

[@ElGrecoDaGeek]

Regarding the flickering issue - Sadly many in the various forums are losing their minds. Northrup's blowing this up into a bigger issue than it is regarding this and the DR hasn't helped. Needless to say many are RMAing cameras like it's a run on the banks. It's silly because the camera is exceptional. Given the rhythmic nature of this cycling between green/magenta and the subsequent shifts in the channels being almost clockwork in how they cycle, as well as the channel histograms in RawDigger being so exact between frames, I wondered if this was some issue with the photosite wells not flushing between reads. That is they had a residual charge stored in them. Given that most pixels on a bayered sensor are green it might be plausible. I asked this of testcam's (the KZbinr who did the more technical tests looking at RawDigger and channels in Resolve) and he said it was possible. FWIW, I did my own simple tests and I can repro the problem in video mod. I setup a high contrast scene and the shadows do flicker in video mode, even in the EVF while not recording. But when I swap the camera into photo mode under the same shooting conditions I don't see the flickering in the EVF. I hope this is indicative of something that can be fixed in a firmware. For my tests I was shooting at 24mm on the 24-70 f/4 Z at ISO 5000 with a shutter speed of 1/500th. I found as the shutter speed reduces the issue retreats to darker and darker shadows.

[@outofabook]

This flickering issue isn't going to stop me from buying a Z6 III, but Nikon absolutely made this a bigger issue than it should have been by not getting in front of the news and reframing it as "Hey here's a side effect of this partially-stacked sensor, but this new technology has allowed all these other awsome features at this price point." Instead now everyone's like "Oh crap my camera is broken better return it while it's still within my return period." It's POSSIBLE Nikon didn't know about it beforehand but to me that seems very unlikely with the amount of testing they must have done throughout the process of designing this sensor and camera.

[@waynerm002]

@@outofabook I think Nikon is checking things and probably trying to figure out if this is an issue for all or some devices, is it something they can resolve and how will they manage it and also, do they have replacement sensors, if it is a sensor issue or is there a software fix that can be applied to remedy the situation.

[@GeminionRay]

I've tried the Z6III myself at the local Nikon showcase last month. I had a few hundred shots with various lighting conditions and I didn't notice the issue at all. Also I'm still a few years away before needing to grab one, so there's plenty of time for Nikon to iron it out.

[@starbase218]

44:55 Just to clarify, was Chris talking about the R1 or the Z6 III feeling that it applies noise reduction?

[@PetaPixel]

R1

[@ClintGryke]

I have spent a lot of time (way too much in fact) lately investigating this deep shadow flickering issue, trying to determine under what conditions it is visible in real world video as well as testing noise and flicker reduction in DaVinci Resolve and Neat Noise plugin in Final Cut Pro. I agree with Jordan's assessment that this is only going to be a potential issue when shooting in very low light at very high ISO or by underexposing by 3-5 stops and pulling up the shadows by the same amount. However, a key point here is that if shooting in conditions where the flicker is visible, noise is going to be a serious issue and will have to be dealt with anyway. The good news is that the noise and flicker if visible are easily dealt with. In my opinion, Neat Noise does an amazing job even on very heavily underexposed video (at least up to 5 stops) using the simple default settings. Resolve’s temporal noise reduction is effective to 3-4 stops of underexposure but I find Resolve’s Deflicker effect to be pretty ineffective in dealing with the flicker. At higher degrees of underexposure or very high ISOs, Neat Noise is much better in my opinion. Neat Noise is a highly regarded plugin for many NLES including Resolve and Final Cut Pro and not too expensive. I am not trying to promote Neat Noise and have nothing to do with the company - just making my findings known for what they are worth.

[@robari2410]

Do you think that the DR issue is something that NIKON would be able to fix through a firmware update? Is that even possible? Thanks!!

[@cookedart]

How come the O-M5 is not a reasonable option for a compact, lightweight, weather sealed micro four thirds street camera setup?

[@niccollsvideo]

It totally is a good option. With small lenses like the 12mm f2 and 45mm f1.8 you can have a wonderful and compact little camera.

[@cookedart]

Ya, it's strange that the guys didn't even think of it? It seems like the best modern option. Personally I like the panasonic 9mm and 25mm II, and the Om 20mm.

[@rumrill5020]

I used an OM-5 with the 20mm f1.4 almost exclusively for street photography. It’s a nearly perfect setup, especially with excellent IBIS and live ND. Some may prefer a non-flip screen and rangefinder styling, but otherwise it is excellent. Great for budget macro, too.

[@ianroe1076]

The only camera CPU benchmark that matters is if it can run DOOM

[@briancampbell5243]

Is there a reason to use m4/3 over z6iii for wildlife? It seems like FF has caught up with the sensors,IS, even precapture. I am just wondering.

[@jamese4729]

A lens with the same field of view (300mm on m43 vs 600mm on FF) is usually a lot smaller. This is because they are darker equivalently, but with the exception of Canon, who makes f/11 full frame lenses (like the 800mm f/11), the FF lenses like the Nikon 180-600 are bigger than the m43 lenses like the 100-400 from Panasonic. The cost is worse performance in low light. It's still a "horses for courses" type of thing. You'll get better image quality from the FF camera, but it's generally heavier to get the same equivalent field of view. Also, the IS in m43 is still better in the real world than the best of FF, it's easier to move the smaller and lower mass sensor. The G9 II shoots faster than the Nikon (but do you need 60 FPS or whatever?). Finally, m43 cameras tend to be cheaper for the same capabilities (ignoring low light performance). You can get a great wildlife setup for m43 with the G9 II and 100-400 for about the price of a Z6 III. I don't shoot either system, just thought you'd want an answer. Cheers!

[@studiotrejo3047]

When ProRes Raw came to the Z6 with the upgrade, it too had a flickering effect in the shadows when under exposed and shadows lifted. You didn’t see it in proper exposures. Nikon fixed the issue with a firmware update and it never happened again. Moral of the story, it can be fixed with firmware.

[@romainplagnol882]

Depends on the issue I guess

[@danielvilliers612]

This reminds me of my dji 4 pro, when their is too much detail the codec can't hold it and it cause a flicker.

[@danielvilliers612]

This reminds me of my dji 4 pro, when their is too much detail the codec can't hold it and it cause a flicker.

[@marquinhoboy]

Hi, Marco from Mexico, would like to ask, by chance have you seen / have you heard about any striping issue with z6iii with adapted lenses? specifically megadap etz21 pro + tamron g2 sony lenses. It was no happening with z5 at least not that I recall, but just recently realized that all photos while pushing shadows in post vertical or horizontal stripes are show. Banding to my understanding is another thing same as flickering, but I do see those stripes in all the photos. It seems nothing on ftz adapted lenses

[@marquinhoboy]

it is happening in natural and artificial light

[@LightOvertime]

I’m so desperate for a luma/saturation curve for Lightroom. Why doesn’t it exist?

[@bobcunningham9469]

It was mentioned in passing, but I, for one, would love a photo only camera, as I literally don't use the video functions of my cameras. I would assume that there have to be some compromises in design or function to accommodate the requirements for video shooting. It would be interesting to see what could be done designing a photo exclusive camera.

[@danielvilliers612]

You do know mirrorless cameras are video camera taking photos.

[@petermcginty3636]

Question for Chris. I use an OM-5. If i use electronic shutter, do i take a hit in Dynamic Range - compared to mechanical shutter? Thank you.

[@funtaril]

120fps even in AF-S still might be quite useful on super telephoto lenses if you're for example expecting a bird to fly off the perch to the side. Any timeframe for long promised APS-C shootout?

[@houserhythm]

Given each processor runs proprietary software on top of it, you couldn't even compare one from Sony against one from Canon. Just getting the technical specs wouldn't help at all, cause one might be lower frequency, for example, but have some ultra-optimised instruction set for running the particular software that it has to run, while the other might just "brute force" it through high end specs. There's also no way to install any benchmarking software on a camera, in order to have identical testing conditions. We just have to eyeball it according to what they can deliver. For example I'm pretty sure Nikon's are a bit behind Sony and Canon, since they have fast enough sensors, yet they didn't offer more than 20fps raw shooting, pre-capture only in jpeg...

[@williambuford6136]

Your guess on Nikon being behind is just an assumption. The 20fps raw limits could be due to the sensor. Heat management could be a factor. it could be due to Marketing or Management leaving room for the next camera. 20fps generates lots of photos to grade and fills up memory cards quickly. I would like to have more FPS for my BIF or sports photography, but I would not use high fps for street, event, wedding or portrait or product photography.

[@j.f.7509]

A square format DTLR would be heaven!

[@williambuford6136]

Didn't someone make a DTLR that was more of a toy camera in Europe?

[@amiddled]

For M43 - GX800 is a great alternative to something like a Ricoh GR iii. It’s pocketable, and even has decent video including 4K that even the Ricoh doesn’t have. 58:00

[@ronbokje6213]

My K1 stills rocks, there was also an update in Europe few days ago.

[@krtkarkrtkar394]

I had K1 and K1 II , image quality rocks yes no doubt, but AF did not rocks at all .....

[@ronbokje6213]

@@krtkarkrtkar394 got the camera because my dad gave is collection K mount Pentax lenses, got myself one autofocus lens a older 50mm 1.4. so the autofocus is not important for me. Would be nice to have split focus point on the focussing screen. I'm got my first camera when I was 12 so had 40 years practice focusing. it also nice I'm still uses the lenses I used 40 years ago..

[@starbase218]

@@krtkarkrtkar394 Pentax autofocus is the reason I went to Nikon.

[@mikey7326]

I've got those pebble speakers, they're good aren't they.

[@1UpBebop]

I kinda agree with the guys. The Z6 III, it is a great camera, but it's large, expensive/heavy lenses, which is fine for full frame shooters, but if you're not getting the true benefit of a large sensor DR, than you're dealing with all the full frame handicaps for no reason. Image quality/DR is in line with the G9II/GH7 and XT5/XH2 - both camera series which have crazyyyy amounts of high end features, insane format support, advanced IBIS, smaller foot print, lighter, amazing lens selection, fun street shooting LUTs/Film Sims, etc. I would honestly say the high end m43 and APSC offerings that are cheaper are maybe even more capable? I certainly can't see Jordan leaving his GH7 for the Z6 III. If you're not going to get the true real benefits of a large sensor, than it just makes more sense to go with the amazingly feature rich M43 or APSC cameras for cheaper, lighter, and more rugged experience. Just my 2 cents.

[@williambuford6136]

Once you are in the 800 iso and higher, the Z6iii hangs in there with other full frame sensors on DR for Still photography. The Z glass is the whole reason people buy Z bodies. You make some points that your those G series cameras are great for video. The prefect camera for me is not that perfect camera for you and vice versa. I have Z glass and a Z8 and Z6ii so the Z6iii is a great replacement. I'm used to using Z8/DSLR weight cameras with heavy lens. If Nikon keeps up their Firmware progress on this camera, I predict the IBIS gap will lessen and the Nikon will release a better LUT for the Raw video. The flicker noise in the shadow issue might be part of the half stacked sensor not sure what Nikon can do with that in firmware other than bake in some noise reduction.

[@startrekmelo2749]

Fuji; I dislike how the sensor looks on skin. Maybe another apsc cam

[@starbase218]

@@1UpBebop That’s not what they said at all but if it’s your opinion, it’s your opinion.

[@johnc_]

Question for next time: I've seen several videos recently about photo editing in DaVInci Resolve, what do you think about it?

[@PetaPixel]

We've talked about Resolve a lot previously and I'm actually going to give it a shot here in the next week to see how I like it. Those who switched have a lot of praise for it, so I think it would be on the top of my list if I were to recommend a program to someone just starting out. Switching is very hard though, because those of us who have been using one platform for years are just so efficient in our current workflow that it doesn't make a ton of sense to relearn something just to be slower. Or, at least, it's a pain point you have to know is coming and set the time aside accordingly. -Jaron

[@marin_real_estate_photography]

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but you can develop RAW photos in DaVinci Resolve, too. I think you will have to use the adobe converter to convert to DNG, unfortunately.

[@williambuford6136]

Glad to know, but the only person that I know that uses DaVinci resolve with photos was complaining about the process and recommended Darktable.

[@CoenradJMorgan]

Does the hand injury mean that deep grips on camera’s won’t matter as much in your reviews as they might have been in the past?

[@edwardcollins3560]

What time does the review start?

[@lesladbrook4508]

Brilliant guys, my first time here, I will be back again, thank you.

[@quantumnaruto1134]

I want to buy a new camera and I'm confused between the Lumix S5ii and the Sony A7iv which one I should buy.

[@quadcorei8085gen2]

I would also like to know this. S5ii Z6iii or a7iv. Currently the setprice of a7iv + tamron35-150 is 3.300eur and the z7iii same lense goes for 4.200eur the s5ii is with a similar samyang lens 2.800. I got the impression the lumix is more for video. The sony has the best AF but the colors are off. Nikon is the latest has the truest colors and the AF is allegedly close to sony.

[@abdeo777]

Will it work for astrophotography?

[@sramabadran]

Looking at the photons to photos dynamic range charts, what stands out to meis that the Z63 is identical to the Zf. Now you guys did not report any issues with the Zf dynamic range compared to the Z62 or any other camera. Nor were flickering issues reported with its video. Given that the sensor performance is identical, why should anyone buy the Z63 for photography ? (I get that its a better video camera) There's a better grip, more buttons to customize and a button layout mor similar to the professional cameras. Is that it ? (One assumes all the imaging cloud featuers will come eventually to all exspeed7 cameras) Is that difference worth 500 bucks ?

[@FawfulDied]

Z6iii is actually worse DR than Zf (and Z6, Z6ii) below ISO 800. At 800 and above they are equal. Z6iii can actually do 14 FPS without going to slideshow mode (Zf is limited to 7.0 FPS in Continuous H in RAW, otherwise you get an 11 FPS slideshow.) Z6iii has a better viewfinder with a higher frame rate, resolution, and color gamut. CFExpress card slot rather than microSD card, so you can shoot longer bursts (infinite with e-shutter). Option for a vertical grip (not everyone's favorite, but it's there). Pre-capture on the Z6iii is better than on the Zf; with the Zf's C30 it's easy to provoke rolling shutter. Option for a wired remote release (ironically, the Zf's threaded shutter button does not support a cable release, so you have to use either the ML-L7 or SnapBridge). Oh, and Ethernet for tethered shooting.

[@Edwin--]

Thanks for another nice podcast. I agree on the wide aspect ratios; 65:24 is great on the Fuji GFX's and I wish Fuji would put it in their APS-C line too as the current 40 megapixel sensors they use in some models have plenty of resolution for this (image are 8K wide).

[@mitchellwnorowski6747]

The 40-150mm f4 rated one of the best m43 lens by peta puxel

[@quite1enough]

56:35 Lumix S9 is a horrible choice for street photography with its rolling shutter and complete lack of mechanical one (even partially like in A7c with e-first curtain), unless you're only shooting stationary subjects

[@MikeMV]

I recorded my son's birthday last night. One section is lights off, just the candles on the cake, no flickering at all in the shadows.

[@JMurph2015]

The best aspect ratio has to be 1:✓2 (1:1.414). That way you can split it in half and end up with the same aspect ratio, just like European paper! I want a sensor size system like that where "APS-C" is exactly 1/2 the sensor area of "FF".

[@problemat1que]

The same could be achieved if APS-C was 4:3 and MFT was 3:2 again, each could be a half frame of the next sensor size.

[@aarongrech5884]

1:18 - spot on Chris, 99% of phone users want great looking pics with zero effort, and fit months or years worth of them in the phone itself, few if any will want the flexibility of RAW, and the inconvenience of a large sensor and huge filesizes.

[@w0lfyovi294]

There are quite a few ways how to benchmark a chip WITH it's motherboard and assembly (consider the entire camera as a PC basically): Instructions per Second for the CPU, Data Throughput for RAM (MB/s, which is basically how fast they can dump from sensor to the RAM/Buffer), Write Speed to the storage medium (SD or CF Express), Read Speed to read their RAWs and JPEGs or how fast it can zoom in to 1:1 for focus checking or how fast it can read it's large files like in camera High Resolution, How fast it can process a RAW to a JPEG (or with the added features like Canon's new In Camera Denoise AI), Encoding performance for their video features, Decoding performance for playback of the video, Transcoding for converting video file formats if they support that (one example is the built in Time Lapse modes that can output a video) ... and that's the ones I can think of right now at 23:25 in the evening. Can you ask Adobe WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET FOCUS STACKING IN LIGTROOM and an update Denoise AI because right now at ISO above 6.400 or very noisy images it just turns the images into an impressionistic painting.

[@isotechimages.9130]

Being that it the first partially stacked sensor it could likely have a few issues to sort out.

[@michaelpaz8940]

Question about lenses, While there are some exceptions, why is it always 50mm (or 50mm-ish FF Equivalent) lenses that have the fastest/widest apertures?

[@bingbong4848]

Hmmm I dunno. I think 50 is probably quite a popular focal length which everyone has one of, which may give rise to higher volumes/options. Also, below 50mm, generally you’re capturing wider scenery as opposed to portrait type perspectives that you get with 50 and above, in which case you generally don’t want to isolate a subject, so would not need wider apertures.

[@12symmo]

I could be wrong, but I think about two limiting factors, but first things first, there are also 35mm f/1.4 and f/1.2 lenses, and OM system have their f/1.2 primes down to 17mm and sigma have their 14mm f/1.4. Generally though, as you make lenses shorter, you can make the aperture physically smaller while maintaining the same ratio (f/ number) but you still need all the other stuff around the lens like af motors etc. so you would have more engineering challenges to solve. Conversely, at longer focal lengths, you get to about 135mm and longer where maintaining a maximum aperture of f/1.4 would make the lens enormous, heavy and expensive. Could be wrong, that’s just how I think about it.

[@jlwilliams]

A ~40-degree horizontal angle of view (which got defined as “normal” because it reproduces natural perspective when viewing a 10-inch-wide print at normal reading distance) has always been a sweet spot for wide-aperture lens designs. Go much wider and the light rays have to be bent at sharper angles that make aberration correction more challenging. Go much longer and the lens elements need to be large and heavy. So for Simplex (36x24mm) formats, the best design compromises are possible in the 50-to-58mm range or so, and that's why you've traditionally seen the widest-aperture lenses in this range, or corresponding ranges for other formats.

[@doriangray8007]

It is maybe a bit unfair to say the DR on the Z6iii is similar to as APSC when if you overlay the Z8 and Z9 DR with the Z6iii at Photons to Photos they are exactly the same with the exception of where the Z8/9 have ISO lower than 100 and 400-600. Certainly no one is saying the Z8 or Z9 are like apsc.

[@startrekmelo2749]

Whenever they compared it to apache camera. My mind was blown. I was like... What is going on here. I have an apsc camera; Its not very good.

[@FawfulDied]

If the Z6iii is like APS-C then the D5 and D6, which are even worse, must be terrible cameras.

[@johnyoung1606]

Great show !!!! I watch em all (beginning to end) !!!!! :) :) :)

[@Photoandcargeek]

Regarding processors, I think that Canon was saying at some point that their new processor was x times faster than the previous one but nothing more, no power consumption, number of cores, nothing. Other than image processing speed, I am fairly sure that battery life is really influenced by the processor efficiency. Funnily Pixii is advertising that they are now using the first 64 bits processor in the industry, an Arm processor, they reference the number and type of cores etc. Firstly, well done Pixii for being transparent like this, for using what is probably one of the best processors in a camera on the market and, if they are using a Snapdragon, Mediatek or equivalent, they are probably not paying a ton of money for them whilst getting great power and probably great efficiency too.

[@nikoforu]

The Olympus M Zuiko 8-25mm F4 Pro might be my favorite lens on the system.

[@frantisekjavorsky8172]

f8 :DD its too much

[@matango1979]

f4 on m4/3? That's crazy. I mean if you use it exclusively daytime (or tripod) then it might be good, but other than that I don't see it. I do a lot of lowlight stuff, so it wouldn't work for me.

[@photographydiscourse1185]

Hi guys - I appreciate your views and comments on the Z6II and feel like you are on the money with a small caveat. From all I have gathered and also from what you are all saying regarding the Z6III, it seems like the conclusion should be that the Z6III is the best hybrid 'all rounder' camera in the market at the $2500 (initial price) price point. When you weigh all the pros and cons, the Z6III is better than the R6II and the A7IV for most use cases, - but not all. I think you do make this point, but not as clearly as you could have... As an example, if you are only and specifically a landscape photographer then yes the R6II (in mechanical shutter only) or the A7IV would be better choices - but lets be honest - none of these cameras are the best choice. The best choice is likely the Nikon Z7II - it has incredible DR, and it has 45.7 MP as opposed to 24, 24, 33 respectively. One could also perhaps argue for the A7RV at 61MP with good DR as well, however, there is more of problem with diffraction at smaller (hole size) apertures like F/8 whereas we don't really see these issues on the Z7II 45.7 MP sensor until above F/11 - so clearly for landscape there is an argument for the Nikon over the Sony in this specialized use case. Irrespective, it is clear that the 3 mid-tier cameras (Z6III, R6II, and A7IV) are all inferior to either of the above choices, or even the R5 or R5II, which both would be better than any of these mid-tier choices. The point here is that not every camera can be the best at every use case - and in the case of the mid-tier that is solely striving for all around functionality there will be compromises and that makes perfect sense. It is telling that the Z6III has as good DR at ISO 800 and above - where this camera is sure to be used much more frequently as it is clearly designed to be a stellar event camera - whether that is wedding receptions or concerts or any other indoor event where lighting is not ideal. In these use cases, it is far and away the best camera at this price point and that is what the overwhelming majority of end users will be using this camera for. Seriously, if you are a landscape guy and starting from scratch simply buy a Z7II used from KEH (Like New - condition, which is literally NEW for all intents and purposes) for $1850 as of this writing - it is cheaper than any of the mid-tier offerings from any manufacturer and will smoke them all at landscape. For video, and I am way less of a video guy, but I think Jordan explains it very well - the Z6III will outperform all other cameras at this price point in almost every situation with the exception of super low light shadows in RAW or LOG which as Jordan points out is a use case that RAW and LOG are less useful anyway as there is limited DR in these situations, so does this really matter for 95+% of the end users for this camera - the answer is clearly NO. But in good light - it literally smokes the competition with its codec capabilities, good thermal performance etc... In the end, I realize that as reviewers (not just you guys but across the internet) there is a need for something to complain/talk about when it comes to new products, but lets be honest - Nikon has knocked it out of the park here. With the exception of these minor drawbacks, that are limited to very specific end uses, this camera is insanely good and amazing value for the money: It has so much going for it: build quality second to none, ergonomics second to none, 20 FPS in 14 bit RAW, incredible AF in stills (especially if you understand how to use Nikon AF modes), and in video up to 6K60 in RAW and 1080p/240 and everything in between. Additionally it uses the Z mount - the undisputed best mount in the business - the undeniable truth to support this claim - besides physics - see angle of incidence with respect to optics - is that you can literally adapt all other lenses from other manufacturers to this mount in theory and in practice almost all of them as I write this, and at near native to native functionality. Now, we are just waiting for the Canon RF to Z adaptor to hit - which surely will happen soon from some 3rd party company. Even without this added, the Z mount currently adapts Sony E mount, Canon EF mount, Fuji X mount, Leica M mount and I believe Pentax as well - not to mention so many other manual mount adaptations that are out there. So, in conclusion, I think. your review of the Z6III is very fair and everything you have said is justified. I just wish there would be more of an emphasis on how good this camera is versus "here are the very few things that could be better". To be fair, I think Jordan did do this - Chris you too, but you seemed a little more negative in tone. I think the feeling here from many YT viewers is that the same minor faults on a new Sony camera or even Canon might be handled a little differently - like brought up and then fully dismissed as unimportant whereas whenever Nikon does anything 'bad' it seems to be harped upon - not so much by you guys, but certainly across YT. Anyway, thanks for all the good work you do! -PD

[@muszeuhs]

Thank god Chris didn't revisit the hooker analogy from last week's episode for the discussion about Lightroom alts

[@MervinPearce]

Chris, your plosives on the mic are intrusive. Just a heads up

[@BlueBomberTurbo]

Check highlight recovery (or reported lack thereof).

[@POVwithRC]

Boy, total gamut of reeeing from the comments. You've been accused by people of BOTH glazing Nikon and nitpicking them too harshly. How do you do both at once? I'm not sure, because I stay on my medication unlike some other commenters.

[@outofabook]

From up upon high, the guy who denigrates autistic people with slurs, absolutely sure he's better than the opinionated camera people.

[@existential_]

Another thing to ponder about TV Shows is why they are only 8 episodes per season compared to the 20+ of the past. Can you imagine the rumoured revival of 24? It's going to be 8 episodes of Jack Bauer working 1 hour at a 9-5 desk job for the whole season 😂

[@greyspaniard]

Production studios wanted less but the WGA fought for 8 eps minimum to ensure proper compensation for the writers’ room

[@jankarlsson5358]

cold air that is heated contains less moisture, so no problem in winter.... possibly if you live near the coast not otherwise

[@skylark_media]

Can confirm flickering at any iso above 800 when grading and lifting shadows. This is only in NLOG regardless of H265 or RAW.

[@joshkiddfilms1295]

Sticking to the base ISOs and exposing the N-raw as bright as possible without clipping goes a long way in letting this camera produce flicker free video. Nikon should absolute address it. And it's certainly an issue that can be reproduced...but in the meantime, there's no reason this camera can't produce beautiful video, if shooting it in this way.

[@MKNYC_]

Hugh Brownstone's Q3 grip is the most Hugh Brownstone thing i've ever heard of.

[@rk-wy8pu]

For nikon shooters, the only review you need to read is Thom Hogan. Ignore these hacks. It's click bait

[@JuanRojas956]

Agree

[@ml.2770]

Maybe the problem with the Sony ZV-EV1 mk2 having no IBIS should be a more important topic.

[@POVwithRC]

Is that a problem though? Did they ship it saying it would have ibis? Was a promise made and not kept, or was the ibis defective? Did they lie on the box? Because I think it's a bit of a false equivalency to point to something you don't like that was designed to have or not have certain things on purpose, and something like this flicker issue which wasn't intentional at all.

[@ml.2770]

​@@POVwithRCNikon just told me your mom lies on the box.

[@POVwithRC]

@@ml.2770 I wouldn't be surprised.

[@derbagger22]

Crows never die.

[@bimmerfan2126]

the issue is the non-Sony lens may not have the ability to AF at higher shooting speeds and they don't want to deal with people thinking the pro body is broken

[@problemat1que]

They mentioned it works in video mode

[@calsimeth1588]

I love the 3bme shoutout!

[@qnetx]

I shot a roll of film this weekend during a portrait shoot. I also shot digital too. Analog to me is like making a meal from scratch and digital is like heating up a frozen, packaged dinner. One is for the joy of the process and a possible surprise. The other is for convenience and consistency. They both have their place in my heart.

[@elo0915]

I am sure you feel that way. But Have you taken a step back and read that? It reads pretentious af.

[@qnetx]

@@elo0915 - interesting interpretation. My point that I was trying to explain in a metaphor (apparently unsuccessfully) is that each type of medium has a different purpose for me and I do each for the particular feelings they evoke. I love digital for the immediacy and dependable, repeatable, consistency I can depend on. I love analog for the process and not being able to see the results immediately, hoping for a little magic to surprise me. Thanks for your thoughts.

[@falxonPSN]

Jaron, man, I hope you're ok! My wife has a loyalty club punch card at the ER so I can probably imagine what you're dealing with. Just relax and don't overthink anything. In other words try to think as little as most of the commenters on your videos, like me! 😉

[@PetaPixel]

I am recovering well! Thank you! -Jaron

[@thelensmanphotography]

Both the R1 and R5II are 14 bit in electronic shutter.

[@FerventAstronomy]

Speaking to the astrophotography side of things, there aren’t many companies focusing on astrophotography features in their cameras because it’s not a big market from a camera-manufacturer’s point of view, and I don’t know that they’d stand to make much of a profit. We’re in an age where if you’re doing wide field work you’re likely having a fine time with a stock mirrorless camera or DSLR, and if you’re deeper into the hobby you’re using a dedicated cooled astro CMOS and a dedicated tracking mount. Even on the best night the K-1’s sensor-shift star tracking feature was too limiting for me (RIP my old K-1) and for anything more telephoto than 35mm it was a way better plan to use a tracking mount. Camera wise, some people in the transition phase of their hobby will buy an astro modded camera, or have a camera modified, but that’s almost always a compromise. And I can’t imagine many serious astro imagers relying on a camera to do stacking operations, nor can I imagine many novices wanting to fool around with that. Personally I wouldn’t rely on internal AF operations to focus my optics for me, even for wide field. From my perspective I’m glad this stuff all exists, and I hope people use it and have fun, because the most important thing for me is to get hooked on the genre. But I don’t think these features make it into too many cameras because they target a market that’s in a transition phase, and camera companies are capitalist entities at the end of the day.

[@costafilh0]

There are already too many. I hope that in the future, as technology develops, we can stick to just 1" for smartphones, Full Frame and Medium Format for cameras.

[@dtibor5903]

1:32:05 cameras have 2 main processors: 1: the CPU is a very poor performance processor, it is only there to show the menus and OSD, handle buttons, filessystem, and to control image processor. It's a low power risc processor. It has absolute no power to process image data, even histograms are implemented with low framerate to not to overload the operating system. 2: image processor(s): this is more like an FPGA. It can not really execute programs, it has dedicated functions like JPEG and RAW processing and compression, live feed described by some VHDL language. It does all of that with direct RAM acess. Probably this is for AF too. These have no meaningful comparable metrics. Yes they have clockspeeds but they are all over the place and do not mean anything regading performance. They have RAM but they mean nothing for a photographer. Many cameras have in the range of 1-8GB of RAM if you calculate based on the raw data size, but again, meaningless because the image sizes are different across camera models. The video compression codec also is done by these kind of devices, but it may be physically separate from the still image processor. I don't really know the exact details.

[@theangrymonkey]

I honestly wouldn’t mind paying for LR if it wasn’t so damn slow and buggy on PC. Use it on iPad a lot but you have to do frustrating workarounds to process negatives which involve a PC.

[@bingbong4848]

LR Cc is pretty good on PC for me. Maybe because processing is done in the cloud. I don’t have LR so can’t compare.

[@JohnDrummondPhoto]

I use LR and Photoshop without problems on my laptop but it's pretty powerful. I added lots of RAM and have a good graphics card. Those apps can be memory hogs.

[@williambuford6136]

@@JohnDrummondPhoto CPU, max clock speed really helps LR and photoshop, speed. Makes me think so much of photoshops processing is single treaded and not taking advantage of multiple CPU's or GPU performance. Using AMD chips here ready to upgrade to the 9000 series if AMD fixed what ever caused the quality recall.

[@AguilaDeOnix85]

Yeah, M43 is still pretty good for street photography. It's not what I do most, but I use my Panasonic 9mm 1.7, Oly 12-40 2.8, 45 1.8, and 75 1.8 (I can't kick my birding habit, so pigeons and sparrows are often subjects for that lens). My EM-1 Mark II fits my hands well and I hate bodies being super small for the sake of it. And I'm not printing billboards.

[@jasonkosma822]

Hey guys I use my Olympus air a01 with the 12-50mm with stereo recording easy to sneak in sunglass case

[@KreatorStudios]

Learn your gears limitations, then deal with them. At $2500 there are going to be trade offs. At $10k there will be trade offs. It is part of the art and skill set of learning what it takes to take the shot that is in your mind and bringing it to reality. If I spend $200k on the best gear it won't make a difference unless I deal with the realities of its limitations and know how to actually get the shot.

[@XeaLStorm]

Petition to invite David Imel to the Pod

[@phenomenalshots7626]

I was shooting a fashion show Sunday last and another photographer stated a "rumor" that the Z6III partially stacked sensor is a 'Red' sensor. Maybe you guys can shake the rumor tree and see if there is some truth in the rumor...

[@bobcartledge5250]

Thank you, Gents. Mac Mini M2 machine making movement my way!

[@regulation_d]

Just wanted to tack on some advice for other folks thinking about this question... don't bother with 8GB ram. As someone who has used (either personally or for work) an M1, M2, M2 Pro, and M3, I'd take an M1 with 16GB ram over an M3 with 8GB any day.

[@W.i.l.l._Nguyen]

For Adobe: as a much as I don't like subscription, I do enjoy the photography plan. Would love a 20$...build your own plan option (like choose 3 apps for that price). I really enjoy the remix function of Adobe Audition and like to create my own wallpaper with Illustrator but can't afford to spend 46$ a month for a hobby.

[@tennissir1986]

I’ll stick with my Kodak Brownie. 😀

[@WhiskeyTangoFoxtraught]

Kodak disk forever

[@williambuford6136]

@@WhiskeyTangoFoxtraught LOL I miss my Disc camera. LOL Took some fun photos on it. it would be for for lomo images.

[@MDMiller60]

All episodes and seasons that are available.

[@_rhapsodist]

Jordan in extreme low light you definitely need to shoot in log because the dynamic range of the scene is much greater

[@tjkrueger2655]

People get so upset when any outlet dare question a nikon product lately, because it doesn't fit with their perception...

[@romainplagnol882]

True

[@starbase218]

Not really, but when Tony Northrup doesn’t recommend the Z6 III for general photography because of this, while at the same time saying the Canon RP he’s trying to sell is great for that, or not even mentioning that the issue is gone from ISO 800 upwards, or not saying that the Canon R6 II, which has a reasonably fast sensor too (in 12 bit mode) applies noise reduction which will affect the PTP score, combined with his history like the ridiculous Z9 FW2.0 video… yeah that’s where I start to seriously question his objectivity/neutrality.

[@tjkrueger2655]

@starbase218 the gripes about Tony can be justified while the defensiveness of nikon fanboys is also a problem

[@felm.974]

Not really, people just attack Nikon way too much, not matter what they do, they create the first semi-stacked sensor, they get attacked, they do this or that, they get attacked by people pixel peeping or doing a bunch of tests.... they are always looking for something to bash Nikon about.

[@thekofi1]

Yep. And the irony is that I see Nikon fans saying that Sony has the worst "fanbois" but Nikon fanbois are actually the worst on almost every camera related platform by a country mile. Insanely defensive comments on any KZbin video that dares to question Nikon. Then again I'm quite deeply entrenched with Panasonic gear and I find Lumix fanbois annoying too (in fact, I take back my earlier comment because Lumix fans are almost as bad as Nikon fans). If you look at the Lumix subreddit some of the delusion is unbelievable. I don't know what it is about camera brands, but it brings out the absolute most annoying behaviour in people.

[@adenison669]

Hi. Nice podcast. Next to Darktable there is Rwatherapee. I do. It know though how they compare. I am not a native speaker but I remember a West Wing Episode with something like “there is no extremely unique” ☺️😉

[@larrywhite8590]

Still whining about the Pen-F AF?!? Sure the CAF was not great, but you could say this about most contrast detect only bodies, SAF which most people actually use was excellent - fast and accurate.

[@turboplopp]

Pen-F is still my go to camera and I love it. However, I recently tried a Nikon Zf and autofocus and image quality are in a different galaxy. I need a Pen-Zf so I can stop watching Peta-Pixels.

[@POVwithRC]

Ask Sony 😉

[@fabipuello]

Higher ISOs report better DR on Fujifilm cameras, for the longest time Fuji reps have said the to get the most DR you need to shoot at a higher ISO level (it varies depending on the camera) that ISO most of the time(if not always) is the same base ISO for video.

[@webinatic216]

They should release first 3 episodes and then once a week. It takes like 3 episodes to see if you like something.

[@kalef1234]

Canon 6D and EOS R are my favorite bodies for astrophotography. On a tracker in bulb mode, they kick Sony's ass in terms of the image quality and color for milky way images. If you don't have a tracker, Sony is better

[@12symmo]

People get mad about light gathering equivalence because they don’t understand. They want to argue they have extra reach because of having a smaller sensor but don’t want to admit they also have less light gathering ability as a result of the same thing.

[@markishkaru1956]

micro four thirds for street, olympus PEN E-P7, absolutly perfet for it!

[@sorwerk]

Regarding the Leica look topic. Most camera systems have a specific look. I changed systems many times over the years and all of them had a specific look of their own. Of course an expert can emulate in software any look starting from any photo but nobody buys a Sony to emulate Leica or a Canon to emulate the Nikon colours. You just buy the camera that produces the look you like.

[@Kevon420]

Watching that final review, it just made me want an a7 V with a partially stacked version of that 33MP sensor and a 5.76m dot EVF and whatever other enhancements would come in from the march of time.

[@benoittissier58]

Why partially stacked ? Make it fully stacked, which will solve the action AF problem, add a A7r5 type back screen, price it 2800 EUR and it's a deal.

[@Kevon420]

​@@benoittissier58 unless Sony goes ahead and makes every sensor in their lineup fully stacked besides the a7R series, I don't see it. plus they want to keep it in that $2500 price bracket, it's already an expensive camera for a lot of hobbyists/prosumer sort of customers.

[@absolutelyeverything]

Adobe question: why don’t they have a better Davinci competitor? Lumetri’s grading options feel like a tricycle compared to Resolve’s motorcycle. I may never switch back to premiere, but if they got their sh*t together with color I would consider it more. My big wishlist would be: better LOG handling (color space transforms, color managing, etc), nodes or some way to order which changes are applied first, and better noise reduction. Also integrate more after effects features into premiere. There’s no reason they should be two different apps (davinci does this with fusion)

[@tlhunter]

I use darktable on Linux (my primary OS) and it's a great experience. I did try using it on macos but the experience was so bad that I gave up.

[@d3xmeister]

Why not new RX100 or RX10 with more powerful processors and software which since the older models its gotten much cheaper, the results should be infinitely better than smartphones

[@TravelerNick]

I just want to comment on the Z8 vs Panny bit. More tools are usually better than less tools but anybody asking that question likely doesn't know what false colour is or some of the other goodies. More tools might just mean more confusion. What are the odds a person who needs the tools explained knows how to use them? I'd also point out it's misleading to say it "includes" 32bit float. You need the expensive add on. How is that "internal". You can buy a Zoom F3 for less. The DJI recorder is even cheaper.