Is This How Life Started? The Water Paradox with Dr. David Deamer | John Michael Godier

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Was life brought to Earth? Did life begin in a hot spring? Dave Deamer joins John Michael Godier to discuss the possible origins of life in hot springs and the fermi paradox.
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[@talkingmudcrab718]

I love the guests you get for this show. A lot of folks laymen/enthusiasts like myself would maybe never hear from otherwise if not for this podcast. On a really interesting range of topics. Your questions and interview style is peerless as well. As always, thanks for another great episode.

[@EventHorizonShow]

Our pleasure!

[@spindoctor6385]

One of your more interesting guests. The kind of guy who could talk for half an hour after the simplest questions. My favourite topic aswell. Great interview. Thank you.

[@st3venseagal248]

This is one of the best interviews yet. Thank you to everyone involved.

[@EventHorizonShow]

We thought so too. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@humanoid2423]

My favourite channel to fall asleep to. (It's a compliment)

[@EventHorizonShow]

Happy to hear that!

[@mrkylefinney]

I always look forward to Thursdays. Only because of JMG and Event Horizon!

[@EventHorizonShow]

Thank you!

[@Maromas3]

What’s JMG?

[@ConspiracyNutsMakeMeLOL]

​@@Maromas3 narrators initials

[@aceundead4750]

Thursdays bring three good things for me; Event Horizon, SFIA, and payday. Only way it could be better is if i got to dig up dinosaurs

[@julienforletta7896]

This and the why files drops new videos on Thursday :)

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

Dr Deamer is my new spirit animal! As a 33 year who grows more and more curious about the universe around me, I can only dream of being as intelligent, successful, well-read, and motivated in my 80s as Dr. Deamer is! What a total badass!!! 😆

[@Tinman97301]

I love how passionate he is about his study's. A truly amazing guy.

[@PetraKann]

Wonderfully lengthy interview. And JMG allows the guest to speak uninterrupted which is rare and refreshing. One of the better JMG interviews - and there are lots of those

[@jonnyroxx7172]

Dear John, Jonny Roxx here. You and your books have been assuaging and tempering my acute anxiety complex for as many years as you’ve been doing this now. I have three passions: 1. Nature. (Self explanatory) 2. Nature including astronomy. (Everything we can observe in the sky above us. This should be included in Nature). 3. Music. (Ummm… self explanatory enough). Thank you for making my life a little better. Peace, JR

[@senecaflint6853]

Phenomenal episode! Dr. Deamer is one of the best guests I can recall on the show. Definitely looking forward to him coming back sometime!

[@briansandford3596]

Im rarely disappointed by these wonderful Event Horizon podcasts, and I particularly enjoyed this one. Thank you.

[@EventHorizonShow]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@alexgeorge2993]

Very enjoyable and informative episode, I could never understand people that find biology to be boring, we know so much yet we know so little!

[@EventHorizonShow]

Thanks Alex! We love this episode

[@FUBBA]

More interesting content to speculate on.

[@bozo5632]

My pet theory: Not in the hot springs but in tiny fissures in the bedrock, where water and minerals mix, and the mix gets confined in tiny fissures. Every permutation of conditions - wetness, flow rates, temperatures, mineral abundances, sizes of fissures - is represented somewhere / in many places on Earth. Whatever the optimal condition may be, it's available somewhere. Cyclical drying is possible, but less important due to the tiny fissures mechanically holding everything together. Slow flow rates can also reduce dilution rates. The volume of wet fissures far exceeds the volume of surface ponds. Underground environment is stable over long periods, and very safe from solar and other environmental hazards. No one's been able to talk me out of it so far.

[@princejesterful]

I like your thinking!

[@smallsherpa2222]

It's my favorite time of the week! Time to fire up the bong and fall into... The event horizon 👽

[@sid2112]

From wormholes to hot springs. Good times, JMG!

[@MennoniteAbe]

I love the excitement the doctor had in explaining things. Gold star to JMG for ‘doing his reading.’

[@carlgreenbaum1803]

Great interview with an outstanding scientist and an exceptionally well prepared interviewer

[@EventHorizonShow]

We agree!

[@cyris_W]

An Event Horizon and a JMG at the same time! Nice!

[@EventHorizonShow]

They’re referring to a new JMG video out.

[@DollarGeneral_Is_a_Plague]

It's a paradox!

[@SkylarDeRouen]

lets hear it !

[@osamaayyad5289]

Wow John, You have really outdone yourself with this video I really enjoyed it

[@DankMemer42013]

John Godier has the best sci-fi story telling voice their is known

[@chriskelly6574]

Life, Hot Springs and the Water Paradox with Dr. David Deamer! Aaaaaahhhhhh. I'm so excited....Thank you Event Horizon.

[@pmajudge]

BRILLIANT AS EVER!! MANY THANKS -- HOST JOHN MICHAEL GODIER & GUEST DR. DAVID DEAMER. FRPM , (2023)

[@McNutEVD]

distinguishing between planets being habitable and planets being viable candidates for the formation of life seems so obvious but i never had thought of it. great show as always.

[@istvansipos9940]

best guest ever.

[@neuroticaproductions1834]

Love all your guests, but this one in particular was infectious with his enthusiasm. Just got chill but captivating science teacher vibes from him. Hope you have him on again.

[@michaelransom5841]

That is so fascinating that he formed membranous vesicles just by mixing meteor material with water.... makes the mind wander through all the possibilities and implications.

[@EventHorizonShow]

Right?

[@flashraylaser157]

I have a sneaking suspicion biology arises from chemistry almost as easily as chemistry arises from physics (which may arise from maths). Edit: Well equally easily is an exaggeration but you get my point I'm sure.

[@careygoss742]

I always learn alot watching/listening to your videos. Thank you, I love learning!

[@andrewerickson6690]

Hello I'm stoked to get this early in the day

[@bigbear7567]

OUTSTANDING video!!!!

[@Sybil_Detard]

I found this episode especially interesting. Thank you. Thank you both.

[@stricknine6130]

Fantastic interview!! Thank you for the episode.

[@johnn.3887]

Perhaps the best guest you've ever had. Great discussion. Hope you can get him on again.

[@SofaKingShit]

John asks the smartest questions on KZbin.

[@greentea7180]

Absolutely loved this one, lots of food for thought that'll have me thinking for days.

[@Hallifex]

The knowledge here is amazing. Keep up the good work. Awesome interview and insights

[@EventHorizonShow]

Much appreciated!

[@davekerryvane3015]

Loved this one so much. Every time he said DNA my brain retroactively put Dino in front and then replayed it in my head

[@markxxx21]

This guest is one of the most interesting you've ever had on.

[@himynameis3664]

Few days late but just had to comment. Ever since I was a kid everything about the cosmos and science in general fascinated me. I caught a lot of shit for my passion. I never studied it beyond secondary school but always tried keep up to date with things. All the new info/theories and the way you break down all the complex histories of these super interesting ideas, just makes me feel like I've had a 2nd chance at school where I didn't f*#k up by not paying attention. I really can't thank you enough. I've learned more from your multiple channels than I ever learned in school and I just really don't have the vocabulary to express my gratitude to you and your team. It's the main reason I stay coming back to KZbin. Please don't ever change

[@Innovate22]

A gloriously edifying podcast on the origin of life. It makes me happy to see cutting edge scientific research brought to the forefront for all to learn from and be inspired.

[@vee2877]

Fantastic guest! His enthusiasm and passion for this part of science is very engaging and contagious

[@EventHorizonShow]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@peterdore2572]

Very good and very interesting interview. Watched the entire thing

[@Kustan112]

Nachos, Chianti and JMG. Let's get it. Edit: Anything this man smells is more interesting than what I am doing.

[@EventHorizonShow]

What a great combo

[@garyr3179]

What a remarkable episode! Dr. Deamer really makes that argument for dry-wet cycles allowing for life…not just on Earth but else where in the universe!!!

[@txrwauy]

This was a really brilliant episode - and that is saying something as I always enjoy Event Horizon. Dr Deamer is obviously very passionate and knowledgeable. I learned a lot from from the interview. Thanks to John and the Event Horizon team!

[@madmattdigs9518]

Great discussion. Another great guest on EH. I love this channel!

[@DaemonJax]

Great interview!

[@gborderolle]

Wonderful interview Jhon Michael, the best one so far!

[@_nebulousthoughts]

Been following Dr deamer for a while now. Great work

[@alanbrady420]

Brilliant guest this was really enjoyable 👏🏻

[@jimanders6750]

cheers dude

[@shawnhutchinson3425]

This reminded me of the scene in TNG All Good Things. Where Q is telling Picard that "in that pool amino acids are combining to form proteins." While sitting next to what looks like volcanic springs.

[@P5ychoFox]

Dr Steve Ruff mentioned at 22:20 has a fantastic KZbin channel called Mars Guy. Definitely recommend to keep up with all the happenings in Jezero Crater.

[@KatharineOsborne]

This was a really good episode (they are always good!) The guest has a great way to tell stories and I could listen to his voice everyday. And of course, this was jam packed with interesting info told well. I love how you know when to let the guest just talk, and when to prompt.

[@johannweber5185]

Danke!

[@EventHorizonShow]

Thank you!

[@johngz3413]

Fresh and briney

[@exoexpansion]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@fluffyspunsugar]

I enjoyed this very much. Thank you.

[@kenlee5509]

1:47 "... That really does a fantastic job of improving signs of aging ..." Now I look 9000!

[@charlescook5542]

This dr LITERALLY made my night!

[@timgstar3585]

Wow this was really interesting thanks guys 🙏

[@ronniabati]

Great talk. Thanks

[@Idellphany]

This guest has me to eager to sleep. So good!

[@itsfonk]

Another fascinating interview! Always appreciated, John 🤙 Stay curious everyone!

[@freyawildesciencefictionau8156]

Fun. Thanks Michael.

[@andyoates8392]

What a way to start Fridays. Waking up to fall into the Event Horizon of endless possibilities (strong coffee in hand not essential, but recommended) 👍🤓💚♾️… maybe a bowl of “Urable Soup” is in order for lunch today 🍜😋😁

[@Aginor88]

Interesting as per usual.

[@sookendestroy1]

Couldnt a comet orbiting a star fairly close have similar conditions? If it were rotating slowly as it orbited it would be cyclically heating, cooling, drying and then rehydrating as warming water raises to the surface possibly leaving a residue in its tail which excretes organic molecules

[@andyoates8392]

Love this thought! Cometary panspermia possibility 👍💚♾️

[@silverspork86]

This and isaac Arthur are my go to bedtime listens every night

[@freddan6fly]

If you want a summary of all the science in OOL, Professor Dave Explains has eight videos in his debunking series, debunking James Tour.

[@EventHorizonShow]

What are you referring to?

[@freddan6fly]

@@EventHorizonShow All other hypothesis of origin of life than hot springs, for instance the building blocks of life on asteroids.

[@tbone3291]

@@EventHorizonShow James Tour is an organic chemist who throroughly dismantles the Origin of Life theories, including your guest's. Piece by piece. Shreds the whole thing. Tour is one of the most cited chemists in the world. Huge number of patents. "Professor Dave" is a professional youtube guy who makes science videos for children. Tour exposes the Origin of Life researchers for the frauds and liars they are. The "field" of OOL is full of anti-intellectual charlatans.

[@oldgreybeard5301]

Excellent as always, friend! This may not be the right place for a suggestion, but perhaps at some point you could get David Kipping on here. I think that would make for a fascinating interview/discussion. Best regards!

[@EventHorizonShow]

Great suggestion! David has been on the show many times but it’s been awhile since he was last on, we will have him on again for sure.

[@oldgreybeard5301]

@@EventHorizonShow Had a feeling as I was typing that he had been on before. That's what I get for not checking your back catalog! Have a good one!

[@codeev4057]

This guy sounds like the villan from Dont look up

[@seanpaddy-ec4mb]

A great show!!!!

[@Ps-we3pp]

wow i didnt expect the krishnamurthy refernce at 54.20

[@whirledpeas3477]

I love the content and the comments

[@antifajesus]

I was listening but I couldn't help thinking an underwater cave could have formed from a concretion allowing air to dry out the inside , bubbles would re-wet it occasionally giving a cycle.

[@michaelkukucka-hz6uj]

Its victoria Australia

[@BitcoinMeister]

Great guest! He has a talent for explaining complex subjects for a regular audience. Odd that he answered the IO question with an asteroid answers. I still wonder what his thoughts on IO specifically are.

[@donmcclain2530]

Loved the show, very interesting!

[@joneseysj]

John, lex fridman is looking to speak to new guys, he’s doing a tour, I think it would be great if you and him got together for a discussion, think it would really help your channel get more subscribers as well. Event horizon deserves it 😀

[@thunderhammerx2966]

Is it strange to hear an AI say they used the device in the advertisement? Used the device for what?

[@PronatorTendon]

A few years ago I was thinking and concluded that evolution by natural selection actually preceded the first life, as crude nucleotides operate by the same principles as life. Self reproduction, structural reliability, and efficiency are all selection metrics for both life and self replicating non-life. It's hard to get the people I know on board with the idea, though I don't think abiogenesis is quite the dividing line it's been portrayed to be

[@atrayser]

There is one problem with the observation that just life is very rare - if it were, the chance that intelligent life would have come into existence is pretty much nil - so out there seems simple life must be common in order for complex life and one time for intelligent life after billions of years, to have come into existence - so we should be able to look forward to common single cell life out there - and because intelligent life in our galaxy did occur once, it means it is possible, and there is always the possibility it could be extremely rare but because it occurred once it could occur more than once, and so it is always possible that it will emerge or is emerging, but probably has not emerged and survived for very long so far. AND MOST INTERESTINGLY - Although since even complex life would very rarely become intelligent life - it seems that we will probably find complex non intelligent life one day too in our galaxy - which could be very interesting.

[@stevencoardvenice]

The LeBaron is urable. Not deep sea vents, and not tide pools! Anyway this interview is the first time I've heard a scientist explain why we don't see abiogenesis occurring on earth every day

[@amangogna68]

Great video !

[@DrumToTheBassWoop]

I wish scientific research was treated like how Hollywood stars are treated. We need to make science the cool jobs.

[@pavel9652]

I stopped watching TV ages ago and never followed pop news, because it is complete garbage. The same with sport. Celebrities are clueless about nearly anything! All they know is how to be poplar.

[@HaHa-gy5vg]

You should have Nick Lane on he can tell you it started in deep sea black smokers. You need a gradient to push protons past a barrier.

[@doom75x84]

Thx 👍

[@Dragrath1]

Its an interesting hypothesis however one problem I still have with the hot springs based models at least on Earth is that there is a lot of water in Earth's mantle at least more than 3 times Earth's oceans worth of water at the minimum, and given that there is a temperature dependence on the amount of water which can exist in hydrated minerals where the percent water fraction of rock. There is some evidence to suggest that mantle hydration was and continues to be a driving tectonic process for plate tectonics and Archaean rocks have been analyzed isotopically and they don't show the evidence of the kinds of chemistry which would be expected if there was air rock interactions thus suggesting Earth had negligible to absent water rock interactions i.e. the oceans were too deep for rock and water to come into contact. Now the reason I point this out is that the timescale for ocean sequestration into the mantle allows us to through thermodynamics predict the timing of the Great Oxygenation Event and the delayed Neoproterozoic Oxygenation Event thanks to quantum mechanics limiting the ability for aerobic photosynthesis to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen and these short wavelengths only reach to top of the water column while nutrients diffuse up from the seafloor which means shallow water is essential for aerobic photosynthesis. I don't know how to that would be explainable if that water wasn't in the oceans early on. One thing that gets neglected a bit in the context of salinity is that the salts we have today would not have been the salts in the ocean in particular the dominant salt would have been iron (Fe +2) and we have some pretty strong evidence iron was and still is essential for life since thus far the oldest metabolism is based on changing oxidation states of iron. In particular all known metabolic reactions i.e. ATP and RNA and DNA replication all depend on iron as a catalyst even if iron is no longer a dominant constituent suggesting iron is still critical for life so one question I wonder is could iron play a role in insulating early life from more dangerous salts? There is also a suspiciously strong correlation between serpentinization type reactions and early forms of metabolism which makes me wonder if we should be looking within the rock In this context from the perspective of thermodynamics early Earth might not have been able to support dry land environments hence if dry environments are required then Earth could not be urable. Now Mars was urable but only had a short lived epoch of habitability so if the hydrothermal model was essential then a Martian origin followed by panspermia seems more plausible. That said I'm not convinced that this model is correct in part because there is potentially another option to explore and that is since RNA type reactions can occur from basaltic glass and because we know life handling hydrothermal vents where water can emerge as supercritical raises a seemingly crazy idea of whether magma and supercritical water under high temperature and pressure conditions might have promoted life through subsurface reactions(or even potentially the early post impact Earth since separation of fluids by density might lead to supercritical water and basaltic magma interacting directly on a planetary scale. This seems to be an interesting concept because the conditions involved still exist within subduction zones in the form of fluids rising up through the mantle wedge and crust to form volcanism. In principal I thus wonder whether some kind of metabolic abiogenesis can occur within the subsurface magmatic fluids consisting of some high temperature high pressure analogs to nucleic acids and iron catalyzed metabolism. This of course wouldn't get you cell membranes but attempts at reconstructing LUCA's(Last Universal Common Ancestor) genome thus far doesn't contain membranes which leads to the idea that perhaps those came later as if your reactions proceed within the tiny cracks and inclusions within rock maybe you don't need that until say particular circumstances can be met to enable the acquisition of membranes. Oh and lets not forget the microfractures in rock offer another place where wet dry cycles could proceed as seismic tremors cause the paths for hydrothermal fluids to rise to the surface to shift.

[@sentientflower7891]

Dave Farina, of Professor Dave Explains, adamantly insists that the warm little pond idea is dead.

[@cavetroll666]

Yesss thanks John 🙃🙃

[@giantclam1822]

Bong hits and Chinese on the way Art Bell level.

[@listerofsmeggg]

Can someone please tell me the name of the classical music at the beginning of John's podcasts ?

[@EventHorizonShow]

It’s called unexplored moon by Miguel Johnson. Link to his music in description

[@listerofsmeggg]

@@EventHorizonShow thank you

[@classic_sci_fi]

He didn’t answer the question about repeating the labeled release experiment adequately. The test is a valid part of looking for life. Release of perchlorate from water does not explain the transfer of heavy hydrogen between nutrients and methane gas. 😎

[@free_spirit1]

Life didn't start during the late heavy bombardment. Life started *because* of the late heavy bombardment.

[@GeorgeMerl]

Couldn't protocells act to concentrate chemicals in the ocean?

[@JameyBarrow]

FANTASTIC episode! Kind of a bummer to have to rule out all salty waterworlds for abiogenisis if Dr. Deamers theories are correct. Europa has been the golden poster child for possible extant life in our solar system. Unticks alot of boxes for many potential abodes for life. 😕

[@JohnMichaelGodier]

There's another way to look at it though. While if the hot springs theory is correct, it would rule out life on Europa if its biochemistry is like that of Earth. But it doesn't actually rule out some alternative biochemistry for which we have no example of, which means Europa life should we find it could be even more alien than we could have imagined. And another question could be asked, what of subsurface Io?

[@JameyBarrow]

@@JohnMichaelGodier ...I just wana see some aliens John.

[@thomasschwarz1973]

Great, thank you. In the spirit of the belief in evolution, please consider that life evolves, meaning that there is no start. Get it? In other words, our sun is in your family tree. We are looking for a missing link between minerals and cells. But how about we start with the assumption that minerals evolve into cells, rather than one is alive and one is dead. That is more Sistine chapel perspective.....

[@hollycook1419]

I find it suspicious that A.N.N.A. is selling me skincare products 😆