Is this the DUMBEST ship design in Star Wars? - Legends Lore

The Assualt Frigate Mk. 2 may very well be the dumbest looking and designed ship in Star Wars history. I'll roast it in today's Star Wars Lore video!
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The Assault Frigate MK2 was a variant of the dreadnought class heavy cruiser used by the Rebel Alliance and the New Republic. The dreadnought was one of the most famous Star Wars capital ships and was created by the Galactic Republic before the Clone Wars. All that and more explained in today's video!
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[@EckhartsLadder]

If you're interested in Lore shorts (videos optimized for short viewing, like TikToks), you can check out my new channel! My favorite short so far: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWavk4pqpqtofs0 (if you're not into it, I won't be offended lol. this is something I have to do for KZbin, but I've been really enjoying it. shorts won't impact the main channel!)

[@shinystarmiestudios4179]

I reckon you needs to the a battle breakdown of the battle of Sluis Van from the Thrawn Trilogy.

[@sschuster2180]

Great Vid Eck didnt know about that 16 000 crew for the OG Dreadnought ... gotta wonder what poodoo peddler came up with that rediculus number though. What would there even be to do on that ship for so many people to have to be on board? Thats why Ive personally stoped looking at canon crew compliments and ship stats. They for the most part make no sense cus they are decided upon by people who have no Idea of realistic logistics or warship designs.

[@Delvien]

@@sschuster2180 Well a modern super carrier has a crew of roughly 5,000 to 6,000 sailors and air crew, the uss Dwight D. Eisenhower is about 300 meters long and the Dreadnought is over 600. The number seems a bit inflated but nothing astronomical compared to a modern carrier.

[@omeganinjaboy]

The Dreadnaught ship really looks like the original Battlestar Galactica

[@Delvien]

@@omeganinjaboy To be fair the Dreadnought heavy cruiser is among the most generic ship designs in sci-fi. Wedge in the front, armor box for a body, engines in the back. (I like it but it's not game changing to say the least lol)

[@starsilverinfinity]

Personally I would consider it less of a "Dreadnaught retrofited to be better for the Rebellion" and more of a "Ship inspired by the Dreadnaught's use" considering its capabilities in combat and its use it seems to be more of a spiritual successor than a literal repurpose of the originals skeleton like the Mark I

[@pepperedash4424]

Maybe they could retcon a design that looks derivative of the Assault Frigate Mark ll into the lore, and call it a Dreadnaught ll?

[@emberfist8347]

It is actually more of a manufacturer version of the Assault Frigate configuration.

[@starsilverinfinity]

@@pepperedash4424 Honestly that would be interesting - something more in line with the Mark I with those Mon Calan elements would be cool

[@610Blackhawk]

Yeah, this is kind of my thinking as well, especially if you consider what Mk II can actually mean. If you look at the way the British type classified their tanks during WWII, there’s actually two separate Mk designations for each design. Take the Churchill infantry tank for example. You can find various versions of the the Churchill from the Churchill Mk I with a hull mounted 3 inch howitzer and a 40mm 2pdr gun in a turret, the Churchill Mk III with a 6pdr in the turret and a hull MG, or the Churchill Mk VI with a 75mm gun in the turret. There are various Mks of Churchill tanks. However, ALL Churchills were the Mk IV model of *infantry tank*. This means a Churchill Mk I would technically be called, “Infantry Tank Mk IV, Churchill Mk I.” A Churchill VI would be, “Infantry Tank Mk IV, Churchill Mk VI.” Infantry tank Mk III was the Valentine, a completely different design that filled the same role the Churchill eventually would which had its own series of variants. Using this same sort of designation system, the first assault frigate could be, “Assault Frigate Mk I, Dreadnought Mk II.” Where as the successor ship is, “Assault Frigate Mk II, Whatevershipname Mk I.”

[@TheEventHorizon909]

Honestly the only way I could see it working is if it was made with many of the components of DHC’s and yeah your explanation of it filling a similar role would also fit kinda well just really stupid

[@exclam5411]

This caught me off-guard. Extremely interesting to use both in-universe and real world lineage to explain a ship that is a mainstay across Star Wars projects despite not being on film. I would love to see this with more ships... like the Kihraxz fighter? Z-95-AF4? E-wing, even?

[@BON3SMcCOY]

I'd love to see something on the Starviper. I only know it from EaW and various book covers.

[@DTSephiroth]

"One of the ugliest ships, not named the Mandator IV Dreadnought." #shotsfired

[@Sparrow9612]

Aka the Pizza-class dreadnought.

[@terencetsang9518]

@@Sparrow9612 The one time that adding two awesome things together didn't work

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@Sparrow9612 50% off your First Order when you buy from Papa Snoke's (Ironically that was from a meme image made before the movie came out and revealed that Papa Snoke was himself 50% off)

[@bobsempletank5362]

@@DIEGhostfish Papa snoke was a true capitalist, made himself come with the ultimate 50% discount

[@mylesbarrett2031]

Even the Mandator has nothing on the ugliness of the sideways flying Brick that is the Resistance Transport.

[@DarthZino93]

The Assault Frigate Mk. 2 looks more like a modified Nebulon B then it does a modified Dreadnaught Heavy Cruiser.

[@DarthVaderReturns1]

my favorite ships are star destroyers darth vaders star destroyer and the anakin solo and i have other favorites i love the falcon but i didnt like the updated falcon in the st but still i like it either if fans hate or like it i kind of like it but ill have to let it grow on me if i watch the st more and everytime i watch a star wars movie people call it the falcon names even luke skywalker once called it a piece of junk i personally also love the slave 1 and the slave 2 boba fetts ships i even like a few other ships owned by bounty hunters

[@nickter745thebold8]

Is the Assault Frigate Mk. 2 more powerful and effective than the Starhawk?

[@DarthVaderReturns1]

@@nickter745thebold8 which ship do you like more an solos ship the falcon or dash rendars ship i prefer dash randars ship more to know why read shadows of the empire and shadow games i even like tomothy zahns bookd dealing with han solo and brian daleys han solo books and the han solo trilogy all 3 of them

[@lionhugs2418]

@@nickter745thebold8 definitely not. The starhawk was meant to go toe to toe with ISDs and come out on top. The Battle Guppy (assault frigate mk 2) is still a cruiser/frigate only meant to support larger ships like the mon calamari cruisers. In the game it originates from, it can maybe fight a victory star destroyer and that would be an even fight. But you'd need at least 3 or 4 to take on an ISD, and even then expect to take a beating

[@alexgaelsotorodriguez3870]

@@DarthVaderReturns1 Shut up

[@tylershort9626]

I came here and Eck just ripped into one of my favorite ships lol, granted it's been my favorite since I was a kid playing EAW lol

[@MayorQwert]

Yeah same 😭

[@legomancb12]

Same, was unpleasantly surprised when he called the design ugly lol

[@minicle426]

Well he's wrong then.

[@peyparoni]

Same here

[@vp21ct]

I've always considered the Mk II to be more of a Mon-Cal interpretation of the Assault Frigate's mission profile. Not a rebuild but a totally new ship, though very likely using parts ripped from original dreadnoughts. When a husk is so far gone that it can't be used anymore, you rip it apart and slap it into a hull provided by the MonCal's. Much of the guts of it could, indeed be originally from Dreadnoughts in this way, and thus be considered an 'offshoot'. Also, I find it to be ugly in just the right way. Star Wars ships aren't meant to look pretty, after all.

[@Robert_Mantei]

100% this

[@CmdrWinters]

The Mk II is actually one of my favorite SW ships in terms of design, what does that say about me?

[@volodymyrboitchouk]

@@CmdrWinters probably nothing, I dont get the hate myself.

[@pepperedash4424]

Or maybe there being a Dreadnaught ll that the Assault Frigate MK ll derived from?

[@emberfist8347]

It wouldn’t really the fit the Mon Cals all their ships are quite beautiful.

[@Werrf1]

On the issue of the fins being used to improve manoeuvrability - granted yes, this is Star Wars and physics is generally little more than a mild suggestion, but if you wanted to put manoeuvring thrusters on a starship, the further the thruster could be placed from the center of mass, the more effective it would be. That's why the Starfuries in Babylon 5 had four engines on the ends of x-shaped wings. So adding fins as a mounting point for maneuvring thrusters would make sense.

[@Frizzleman]

Very interesting thanks!

[@the_once-and-future_king.]

That was my thinking too.

[@simon2493]

You can see it very well in LOGHT die neue these fighters design in there are made with that principal in mind, so both designs have place far away form centre of mass

[@yorecf9641]

@@the_once-and-future_king. same.

[@kevinvandal8595]

In B5 ships like the White Star used fins for the gravity drives. Perhaps in star wars the fins are equipped with repulsorlift tech?

[@grantt1589]

I like how EC henry "fixed" the nebulon B

[@pepperedash4424]

What's your opinion on Fractal Sponge's Nebulon B?

[@grantt1589]

@@pepperedash4424 I like how it's "neck" is not as thin and adds a purpose for being that long. It also looks more like a imperial ship like it originally was intended as.

[@UGNAvalon]

Just looked up FractalSponge’s version of the Nebulon B and WOW! it looks like it would fit right in with an imperial fleet, like as an older brother of the carak(?).

[@grantt1589]

@@UGNAvalon I looked up Fractalsponge's nebulon-B and it looks cool aswell.

[@bertio10]

Eh, I like the ship design. I thought it had a fun look that feels in-keeping with the aesthetic established for the Rebels in the movies, while providing them a ship type capable of taking at least some punishment from a Star Destroyer.

[@Zand3rParkour]

Yeah, my impression was always that the Mk II was intended to be a purpose built successor, not just another retrofit like the Mk I. The Mk I is more a proof of concept to modernize the Dreadnaught. That makes more sense to me.

[@347Jimmy]

This is exactly what I had in my headcanon too They took what they learned from modding dreadies into Mk I's, and then built a whole new ship from there Particularly given that refitting old ships so thoroughly was quite costly and work-intensive (problems Eck mentioned), going from the ground up for Mk II really does make the most sense Plus it lets you keep your older ships in service, adding to the size of your navy (which was very much at a premium for the Alliance/NR)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

Possibly the dreadnaught bow is buried down there under layers of armour, but yes, to most intents and purposes, it's a new ship.

[@rushilgupta6053]

This sort of "ship roast" is a great idea for a video series

[@joshuazarate9780]

Beer-can CHICKEN!

[@bradhedgehog12]

Whoa now hold up Eck. The assault frigate MK II Maybe ugly but it packs a wallop. My rebel forces would never earn victory if it weren’t t for them.

[@DTSephiroth]

Ugly does not equal ineffective.

[@bradhedgehog12]

@@DTSephiroth Mmhmm

[@lionhugs2418]

Also just personal opinion, that ship looks mean to me. It looks like it pack a punch, like it can take point on a raid or something In game, they're great in groups. They tank so much fire and dish it out too. I hated the design as a kid but they've grown on me over the years~

[@paulrasmussen8953]

Nope, same weapons as the nebulon b frigate. One of the few errors Petro did

[@bradhedgehog12]

@@lionhugs2418 mmhmm.

[@Vidiocity92]

But the assault frigate makes a cool miniature! Also, it's amazing KZbin can become more bs. Short videos for mobile format suck, I wanna watch a video that's a good length AND with a wide screen like normal. ... So the video equivalent of an assault frigate lol

[@kennethferland5579]

The unique apearance and silloute is one of its strongest freatures.

[@Nidhoggrr]

I never actually thought of this before but based on it's size how the flying hell did 16,000 personnel fit into a dreadought cruiser? And that's just to make it work and not counting other kinds of crews or troop numbers.

[@FoxerBoxerNaaniwa]

I think the corridors were just filled with crewmen standing shoulder to shoulder, packed so densely they couldn’t move at all.

[@vasileiosmela309]

I don't get it either, it sounds like it'd be an extremely cramped and uncomfortable posting.

[@EckhartsLadder]

That's actually not too too much. A Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is 300m long and carries a crew of 6,000.

[@DamianMaisano]

I believe it completely. A 300m (and it would he be less living space per length as a water vessel and it’s no where near as wide) Nimitz class aircraft carrier has up to 6000 personnel (though including a hell of a lot of aircrew abs support there of). The largess cruise ship is of similar length and capacity. 600m with over 100m width and height is absolutely massive

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

Depends on the Square Footage inside. 600 meters long, say 100 wide and 100 tall. That is a 30 story building tall and a 30 story building wide. That is a 180 story building long. That's a huge area, that should give you the idea of the type of Square Footage that could be inside. Support Crew were part of the crew needed to operate the Vessel. Fighter Pilots are counting with their craft (they only held one Squadron of Ties in racks). Two Companies of ground troops.

[@Obiwan7100]

Dumbest Ship Design in Star Wars MG-100 StarFortress: Hold my beer.

[@jjonestown]

My theory is that they just used it wrong. It needed a much higher ratio of fighters per bomber.

[@hungcuong606]

@@jjonestown it sitting duck against any capital ship that can fire at it because it so slow and big no matter how many fighters you give to defend it unless the fighters sacrifice themselves to defend it against not only the enemy fighters but also capital ship fire not to mention they have to be right on top of the enemy at a distance that they too could die if the bomb drop these are flying coffin they are death the moment they take these thing into space

[@waxerstarwarsexplained550]

Thats nothing compared to the trectorn star destroyer

[@AnthemAnimation]

@@hungcuong606 If they had made a B-wing model for the movie instead, it would have behaved the same way to drive the plot the same way, the only real way you should judge it is by design, and personally I love it

[@richardched6085]

Make it a bit bigger (Corvette or Frigate scale) and it'll be a decent design. My issue with it was that it couldn't take ANYTHING. It's bomb bay was too vulnerable. In theory it would make an exceptional surface bomber.

[@pdxmarine1430]

I like the aesthetics of the Mk2, but it looks way more a like Nebulon that had the spine removed and extra stuff added to fit more firepower in a more compact package than it appears to have anything to do with the Dreadnaught

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron.

[@princeofpokemon2934]

I'd like to see that

[@wilsonriley1856]

If Ender has a MD Device, I hand the win to him. All he has to do is get Thrawn's ships when they are in relatively close proximity to one another

[@thechroniclegamer4285]

I feel like Thrawn would win, because the aliens didn’t really fight back as much as they shouldve

[@jlokison]

In the book Ender's Game (only the first of several about Ender) millions of humans and thousands of their ships were destroyed, although the Formics were dieing by the billions if not trillions. Ender and most of his subcommanders were initially not aware that they were ordering actually manned ships in real combat, with one notable exception. They were only told to win, no matter the cost, they delivered the win, and the realization that not only had he committed genocide but his orders hand killed millions of humans broke Ender Wiggen and drove him into self exile. They are both exemplary tactical and strategic geniuses that have studied everything about war their own culture has documented and then some. Ender understood that if he can learn enough about an opponent to love them, he can completely destroy them, but that takes a toll on him as well. An emotional toll that took him a couple decades of personal time to recover from but then his connection to the Formics was unusually deep. He had developed a psychic link to the Formic Queens when they attempted to link with him to better understand humans, neither originally realized it was a two way connection and as a result Ender learned more about the Formics than any other human ever would and used that knowledge to wipe them from the Stars. How much information would Ender have on the Chiss, the Assendancy and Thrawn? What is Ender's psychological state? Thrawn also studies his opponents and their culture to determine how likely they are to respond certain ways to given stimuli, he then uses this information to gain advantage over and defeat them. Thrawn has access to the tactical and strategic treatises of dozens if not hundreds of cultures. Thrawn doesn't go as deep as Ender in understanding his opponents, but in most circumstances he doesn't need to. Unfortunately the humans of the Star Wars galaxy are not exactly the same as the humans of the Earth that survived the first Formic war. How much does Thrawn know of a variant culture of humans that spent millennium fighting itself until it directed all of its frustration and creativity to annihilate the first aliens that made hostile contact with it? Thrawn has a lot of advantages over Ender, depending upon Ender's emotional state. But if you want Thrawn to go up against someone as good as Ender but with different emotional baggage then you want Ender's Shadow, Bean.

[@wilsonriley1856]

@@jlokison It depends. Once Ender goes to Lusitania, he gets his shit together. And remember what is going on with Ender in the lead up to the final battle with the Formics. Being sleep deprived and pushed to your limit while not knowing what is going on can break a person, and it broke him.

[@alexklassen5145]

Could it be that they had mon cala engineers look at it and do a redesign using all the materials from they original while adding some pieces of their own ships. Using the dreadnought as sort of a stepping stone towards the design of the star hawk.

[@marcosbravo9645]

I always thought the mark two looked weird, I came to basically the same conclusions. My headcannon is that the front half of a Dreadnought is still there, engulfed in Mon Calamari armor. Maybe the two bulbous sides are parts of the original Dreadnought mounted on the sides and again covered in Mon Calamari armor.

[@mortalspiral]

The dumbest thing that ever made it to space in Legends lore might be the Star's End prison lol

[@gregdomenico1891]

@@michaelandreipalon359 In the Novel Han Solo at Stars End, Chewie is being held at the prison called Stars End. The prison is located on a airless planet, with heavy shields and armor protecting it. Long story short, during the rescue they overload the upper shield and reactor. The explosion is redirected by the side shields and the whole prison gets blasted into the upper atmosphere.

[@mortalspiral]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Han Solo and Chewbacca are staging a prison break and blow up generator in the basement but the prison is built so tough that all the energy is forced down, launching the entire prison out of the atmosphere until it quickly comes crashing back down. (The book was published in 1979, before Empire Strikes Back was released 🤯)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@gregdomenico1891 Well, it was nearly impenetrable from without, but channeling the blast internally proved fatal, not to mention rocket propulsive! At least a design oversight, if not a total flaw.

[@darthkuat]

Personally, my experience with the MK-II has been kind of mixed. They are design wise a favorite of mine, but in terms of their combat capabilities, they are kind of weak.

[@lionhugs2418]

For me its the reverse. At least with Empire at War. In game, a group of these could definitely pack a heavy punch, and when they took too much damage, their overcharged shield could possibly turn the tide (or allow you to escape and come back in larger numbers) At launch i hated the ship design, but now I look at it lovingly. It kinda looks like a pet goldfish tbh~

[@darthkuat]

I do see what you mean. Individually, they don't work as well, but as a group of them together, they are good. I remember playing a skirmish match in Empire at War where I decided to use only the MK-IIs and they absolutely pulverized the Imperial fleet and space station.

[@rjonboy7608]

Your "experience with the MK II"? Can I see yours?

[@darthkuat]

@@rjonboy7608 I meant that I had lost more of this ship when they were used individually. Rookie mistake.

[@williammagoffin9324]

I could see the MKII being based on a Dreadnought if they tore apart the ship down to the keel and rebuilt her. All her major components (as in the reactor, gun batteries, computer systems, fire control) are there but its a new* spaceframe and outer hull. *new as in the melted down the old one and used the materials again. This has actually happened IRL, the US Navy has some sailing vessels in commission back in the 1800s, they tore them completely apart, took what was salvageable plus new timbers and made another ship out of it; funny thing is officially it was the SAME ship as before, they considered her the same ship the congress had authorized years ago.

[@shorewall]

Dreadnought of Theseus. :D

[@DIEGhostfish]

Also the engine's totally different and hilariously undersized for all that extra armor. Unless it's straight up made with JUST the clamshell front and more stuff built on top of it.

[@Ciangottino]

This ship reminds me of Valor class Cruiser from the old republic, i'd love lo see a video about the old Republic and Sith empire militaries.

[@hms1998]

I watched the whole video and learned a lot, but it made me sad to hear that you find the ship so ugly. It is one of, if not my single favorite ship in Star Wars. I love the unique design, love what it brings to the rebel fleet (mid-large sized ship with good firepower and great shielding, good command ship for mid-sized fleets). I also play a ton of Star Wars Armada, and while its not a great ship in that game, it is my favorite to use. The beauty of the ship is totally subjective, but I really like the design personally. I find a lot of the rebel ship designs to be so boring and while I like a good Imperial triangle, I love how unique the AF Mk2 design is. In Armada we call it the Guppy, which I think is a great name for it!

[@MagnusOrkzyd]

Oi Eck. Can you cover the Liberties Misrule? The story of it is interesting, but somewhat vague and short. It is a topic that could use a LOT of expanding and speculation upon.

[@SixshotRevan]

This takes me back to when I was playing the original EAW non-stop over a decade ago. The Rebel Hard AI would build a fleet of 60+ Assault Frigate Marks IIs and would desperately try to attack me. I got really good at taking these things down. Threw me for a loop when I finally switched from vanilla EAW to FOC, and the Rebels started spamming MC-30s instead.

[@SpaceMonkeyBoi]

Nothing will defeat the resistance bombers when it comes to bad design. Disney, please don't take my comment as a challenge.

[@Skhmt]

Sun Crusher?

[@absalomdraconis]

@@Skhmt : The Sun Crusher was a one-off, so it has an excuse.

[@nickvinsable3798]

Honestly, I think I can give THAT ship some lore. Just bear in mind, I’m primarily focusing on the body-build, not any official name, thus I’ll put the name in the brackets for Proper replacement & such. Due to the Rebel Alliance’s need of ships, the [Assault Frigate Mark 2] was hastily put together. When the Gallofree GR-75 medium transports, the ‘stolen’ EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigates, & other Rebel ships were too damaged to continue their use, they were recycled into newer ships, thus the [Assault Frigate Mark 2] & other such ships comes into existence; more eloquent than the ‘uglier’ starfighters such as the TYE-wing…

[@Reddotzebra]

So you mean it's an "ugly" starship? You take one engine assembly and the upper front cargo armor plates from a Gallofree and then cram the crew sections of a EF76 underneath, add support structure and those two Mon Cal style weapons blisters on each side of the hull and optimize the entire engine assembly down to one module. That's a much better fit for it, and you could still say they used Dreadnought parts for the side bits.

[@nickvinsable3798]

Y~up! That is pretty much what I’ve typed here, @@Reddotzebra. The StarHawk is technically such a ship, isn’t it?

[@pepperedash4424]

I was thinking of retconning in a Dreadnaught ll, for the Assault Frigate MK ll to derive from myself. But your suggestion fits perfectly with the situation the Rebellion was placed in.

[@DIEGhostfish]

7:38 It has the blisters on the side like a dread,Ot actually looks almost like they slightly narrowed the front but made it taller and more curved. Also fun fact, one of the times Assault Frigates show up in the comic adaptation they're actually in place of Corellian Gunships from the novels. (When Mazzic sends them to ambush some imperials and play distraction.) Actually the one ship in the back you can literally see the original Dreadnaught Underbite beneath the added nose.

[@QueenMooSuko]

I always loved that ship in-game, despite how poorly it always performed. Eater of Acclamators, but not much else lol. Of all the ships in vanilla empire at war, that was always the one I enjoyed seeing blow up the most. Or maybe I was just thrilled to see something other than B-wing and A-wing spam from the rebels after I get Star Destroyer doomstacks roaming around. Always did appreciate the AI attempting asymmetric warfare builds. A pity they send 9/10s of their forces to roam empty sectors of space while the remaining tenth of their force goes on a suicide run.

[@battlesheep2552]

Do Star Wars writers have ANY sense of scale when it comes to crew requirements? I don't think there is any reason why a ship that size needs 16000, unless it's powered by people on treadmills

[@spaceman8935]

For every job there was 1 person doing it and 15 people cheering them on. Good for morale, not good for crew size efficiency.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

I like to think it was some kind of political reasoning from the Old Republic, to give lots of representation and postings. Presumably in three crew shifts, anyway, 8 hours a piece.

[@tolerdanu]

That short clip was pretty cool and actually makes star wars space lore much more logical

[@Isvoshra]

Fun fact: *Eck wants to be a Vader's Fortress too* 😂

[@MordalfusGrea]

I feel like the Assault Frigate Mk II was probably meant to look so much differently but they were rushed as ISB was closing in and the Rebellion got it incomplete, so they brought the unfinished design to their Mon Cal allies which is where we got the Assault Frigate Mk II.

[@princeofpokemon2934]

That design is not dumb! It looks amazing!

[@dexterhochstetler3727]

I thought we already saw this one when you covered the Resistance Bomber?

[@mortman200]

Ah the dreadnought. The Battlestar Galactica without the flight pods

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle Rebel fleet at Endor vs. Cole’s fleet at Cole’s last stand

[@nobleman9393]

What would you say about Imperial fleet at Endor vs Cole’s fleet at Cole’s last stand

[@TheWingland]

@@nobleman9393 imperial fleet wins that handily I think. The ships are so much better armed plus I don’t think Cole has any reasonable way of handling the SSD.

[@nobleman9393]

@@TheWingland I mean he had those plot-armor tipped nuclear missiles that managed to somehow burrow to the core of a Super Gas giant and destroy it.

[@Colonel_Overkill]

Knowing how some tech is repurposed it would be possible to rip the engines internals and guns out putting them into a new hull. Often the bits inside are as time intensive to manufacture as a hull so chuck the old Mk 1 systems into a new hull and done. Cannibalize old dreadnaught ships to make a ship needing a fraction of the crew on a 1:1 basis seems like a great trade to me. Also, she looks a bit derpy but is far from the most hideous ship ever.

[@adamjd7645]

You haven't lived until you've played an Armada Koi pond....

[@richardched6085]

I think the Mk II Assault Frigate is a completely new ship built from scratch at secret Rebel Shipyards.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

I always thought it was just the bow of a Dreadnought because they couldn’t get ahold of full ones.

[@bsmnt23]

What in the world did they ever employ 16,000 crew to do on a ship the size of a Dreadnaught? Walk treadmills for the power plant? Row?

[@doyouseetorpedoboats8893]

Assuming a hullform similar to USS south Dakota at 212 metres (which has roughly equivalent length to beam) with its crew of 2354. A Dreadnaught is 9x the volume, being the cube of length. This results in a crew of 21186. So the number is not unreasonable given some automation.

[@bsmnt23]

@@doyouseetorpedoboats8893 I'm going with the treadmills.

[@alexmauney9705]

I honestly love the mk2’s design aesthetic tbh. More interesting than the piles of rectangle metal box ships like the carrack.

[@joshuazarate9780]

You must eat your thin crust with a fork and knife

[@GlamorousTitanic21]

Let’s all be honest. The Dreadnaught-class looks to be heavily modeled after Battlestar Galactica. The alligator head connected by the long body to a large engine block (minus the flight pods).

[@kiethhammer6882]

It kinda does, never thought about it that way. And I remember that Ralph McQuarry did the concept art for BSG, Star Wars and Buck Rogers, so this isn't really surprising.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@kiethhammer6882 One of his Buck Rogers ships, or unused SW concepts that were similar may have inspired the Howlrunner.

[@Reddotzebra]

Same thing with the Carrack cruiser. AKA: "That ship that would have won the Empire the war if they weren't so bloody stupid."

[@lordhosk]

What as all the extra space in the Katana fleet Dreadnaughts used for? From 16,000 down to 2000, assume they are triple bunking people, thats still more than 4000 beds removed, 42,000 meals every day that don't have to be served, thats both bulk of the food and the cafeterias. Then the rec facilities. Those ships must have been EMPTY.

[@Wedgekree]

My head canon for it is that it was a short lived, unique jury rig where the ship was 'rebuilt' along Mon Calamari shield generators. It was a unique variant rebuilt entirely around the generators to make a small ship that could be built in facilities not at Mon Cala for use by local forces to have a ship that could survive combat with a Star Destroyer. The scarcity of Mon Calamari shield generators and the even moreso limited shipyards available to the Rebellion in the war made it rare. As the Rebel fleet expanded, the availability of more effective combat ships in numbers among local fleets and the concentration of heavy ships in the main Alliance battle line ensured it had a very limited production run, and most of the ships were lost to attrition and the survivors seeing limited use in defense fleets as a stopgap pocket cruiser design. It's heavily inefficient and expensive refit and need of specialized components and facilities, as well as it's niche tactical role (as a shield cruiser in fleet engagements) meant that it was phased out relatively quickly.

[@crookhobb7351]

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[@tucodavis3273]

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[@davidalex4421]

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[@OuttaMyMind911]

1:49 Battlestar Galactica called, it wants its ship design back.

[@mr.miniaturesmodels8465]

No Star Wars dumb ship design conversation is complete without mention of the Swingline Stapler ship the Hound’s Tooth.

[@killingragethrowback]

Yeah, I first found out about the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser and it's link to the Assault Frigate in the game Star Wars: Rebellion. Both are also some of the slowest ships in the game, so I wonder if that is true to the canon. Solid fighting ships, but not meant to chase down an enemy, just to stand and deliver.

[@TheKingofbrooklin]

I always liked the zeppelin like look of the Mark II. It matches with most other rebel vessels and looked more streamlined as a newly designed and build ship of the Alliance. Compared to the makeshift ships they often use. I assume that the Mark II was an attempt to turn the Assault Frigate into an own ship class without the need to modify Dreadnoughts anymore by putting the most important aspects of the Mark I into the Mark II.

[@STPaulCathedrel8013]

Here's an idea for your future videos how about doing a video of your top five star wars vessels that we could possibly build here on Earth

[@sorakibr]

I was going to say this was in the star wars rebellion game, but I went back to look, and it was an early version of the Assault Frigate MKI, not an MKII... The fun part being that this was that games answer to Imperial Star Destroyers...I always had to suspend a bit of belief on that.

[@josullivan5604]

i never saw this design until Fantasy Flight Games made a model and i was surprised. i loved the old drawing in the Thrawn Trilogy source books.

[@CmderJeremy]

Dreadnought or not, the mk 2 is a beautiful ship in it's own way and fills the role of medium capital ship quite nicely.

[@PLATINUMSWORDS]

I've noticed my recommendations all have 50 seconds, or shorter, videos as well. I click 'Not Interested' on all of them! Keep doing what you're doing bro.

[@miqvPL]

Dreadnaught - a very dated ship, looks like a brick, has insane crew requirements, weak shields, strong hull, decent weapons, 1 squadron of fighters Mark I - stripped down Dreadnaught, fixed the crew requirements, stronger shields, very weak hull, 50% more turbolasers but no ion cannons. no squadrons of fighters unless you glue them to it. Mark II - finally a proper ship, regular crew requirements, improved shields, regular hull, 10 heavy turbolasers more than Mark I, making it a very proper fire support for capital ships. Small hangar for half a squadron. Mark II was a proper Assault frigate and straight up improvement over Mark I. Design's beauty is subjective, Dreadnaught looks like a brick to me, Assault Frigate is like a brick with wings. Mark II looks like Rendili-Mon Cala coop project, I like it. Definitely feels like a Star Wars ship

[@DIEGhostfish]

There's not really any Rendili at all. There's the backwards Nebulon B Beard, but Nebbies are Kuat designs.

[@miqvPL]

@@DIEGhostfish I still have the imperial nebulon-b image as canon in my head, yeah, it a bit more Kuat-ish then when it comes to "wings" and the beak. But the bulky body is like 70% Mon Cala, 30% Rendili

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@miqvPL EC Henry's and Fractal's Imperial Nebulons were never part of Legends canon. The Imperial ones always looked the same. Other than maybe the Neb 2 which did have smoother wings but that may have just been polygon savings in the old flight sims it appeared in.

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

It's really depressing, the phenomenon of these shorts

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

Not as stupid as the ships from disney Star Wars!

[@IAmEvilTree]

I love the look of the Assault Frigate Mk. 1, especially the double front fin version. Slap some engines, weapon hard points, etheric rudders, etc onto those and it makes for a good ship. Mk. 2 ... less so, mostly because of the lore inconsistencies you highlighted. I could still like it if it were unrelated to the Dreadnought and Mk. 1, I kinda have a soft spot for ugly ships.

[@spartangoku7610]

Nebulon B frigate is the dumbest design.

[@robertdrexel2043]

My theory for the Assault Frigate Mark II was that it was produced by the Mon Calamari Shipyards out of the original licensed Dreadnaught Class specs that had been a thing in the final decades of the Old Republic. Since if I remember right Rendili licensed the design to other shipyards across the galaxy allowing for numerous different variants of the original class built by other shipyards. That said moving on with this theory: unlike the first version of the Assault Frigate which are actual original produced Dreadnaught Class ships just refitted the Mark II are actual newly built ships.

[@sam2753]

It looks to me like whoever designed this ship was a fan of the 1970's-1980's space art by John Berkey - a lot of times displayed in Popular Mechanics magazines of that era.

[@UGNAvalon]

Seeing all these comments about “The Mk2 looks more like a spiritual successor to the Dreadnought than another retrofit” & “The Mk2 looks more like a MonCal re-interpretation of the original Mk1 design” & “The Mk2 looks more like a descendant of the Nebulon line than the Dreadnought” makes me want to see a redesign of the Mk2 specifically focused on bringing it more in line with its Mk1 “ancestors”. Maybe get EC Henry to do it?? :D

[@paulsteinhauser434]

The dumbest ship designs is everything from 7-9.

[@hungcuong606]

Ikr a bomber ship that are as slow as snail , shield that wouldn’t protect against anything (even if it did it still worthless if the enemy can just focus fire ) and it need to be right on top of the enemy in order to drop it payload ( in space apparently ) I don’t care how much firepower that thing is packing if it sitting duck in front of the enemy It only show it effectiveness because the enemies are stupid but even then only one ship make it and the pilots die with the enemy These things are flying coffin that will guarantee your death no mater how good you are more so then the tie fighter because at least these thing you have a chance of survival if you good at dodging

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@hungcuong606 it was a tugboat with stubby wing and a worthless droop.

[@cyqry]

@@hungcuong606 To be fair; a lot of Star Wars was designed to pretty much mimic WW2, from the totalitarian government oppressing people, to the desert struggle of previous powers (the Jedi and Rebel Alliance representing the Republic) to maintain this new threat, to even just the way that starfighters engage (much like WW2 dogfights rather than anything realistic to space). Bombers were insanely slow and vulnerable during this era, and the shields that don't really protect are reminiscent of armour plating; it worked as a means of getting everyone to aggro on you, thereby protecting the rest of your naval fleet (again, a tactic used by larger capital ships in WW2). As for the bombers only firing down, lets be honest if they weren't restricted in that way then what would be the difference between them and literally any other space warship firing torpedoes? Its close to impossible to make one designed for space that doesn't resemble every other ship; and if you design them on real-world aircraft then you get what we saw in the movie. The bombers were designed to be escorted, your argument that they wouldn't survive and attack from a TIE fighter fits pretty much every bomber in history, even those that were "armed" were only done so by the crew pointing machine guns used by infantry out the plane, and real-world bombers had about as much agility as shown in the movie. Your complaints about the bombers in the movie stem from the fact that you CAN'T make a bomber in space, and in the kind of scenarios that inspired George Lucas bombers absolutely sucked outside of their very specific roles. So... the bombers in the movies pretty much fit the bill perfectly.

[@paulsteinhauser434]

@@cyqry the Y-wing was the perfect bomber.

[@cyqry]

@@paulsteinhauser434 The Y-Wing is closer to a torpedo boat than a bomber, if we're sticking to WW2 design, so it doesn't really fit the idea of WW2 dogfighting... it was also heavily stripped down (including almost all of its armour) by the Rebel Alliance, the only reason it was "good" was because it was given plenty of plot-armour, something that wouldn't go down so well nowadays.

[@paparoachbugg5275]

I hate this ship with a passion always thought it looked like the ugly child of a Nebulon b and a Min Calamari cruiser. I was happy that most Star Wars EAW mods removed this mistake of a ship now it's making a resurgence into EaW modding and I loathe it with everything in my being

[@critter30002001]

The Mark2 is way off, but you can make the argument that that Mark 1 is from modifying intact ships, and Mark 2 is from parts of wrecked hulk. That means that since the broken hulls the finished products re more unique and could be larger by combining more hulls to make the final product.

[@WraithOfMan]

"Here's this DREADNOUGHT class ship, which is a HEAVY CRUISER, which was then turned into a FRIGATE...." - Star Wars lore writer who has heard some naval terminology once upon a time but has not a single damn clue what any of it means 😂

[@DIEGhostfish]

5:28 Ehhhh IIRC the early West End Games books said Assault Frigates didn't carry fighters, the Thrawn novels imply they carry them or at least partner with them when possible.

[@D_Chess]

Interesting video, as are most you put up. Quick question I've been meaning to ask:. What game or simulation are you showing? Or is it something you put together yourself?

[@comicsgatekeeper9746]

Its almost as dumb as the wooden space station they planned to have in alien 3

[@Azldoot]

Want a dumb ship design? The Old Republic's Valor-class cruiser. Disgusting design

[@michaelramon2411]

I actually like the AFmkII a fair amount. It feels like a fusion of Mon Calamari designs with more conventional human technology. Size-wise, it feels like a good fit - big enough to overpower pirate ships and the warships of lesser powers, but still dwarfed by Star Destroyers and the Empire's more conventional fleet. The game treats it as the equivalent of (or at least filling the role of) Victory Star Destroyers, which indicate that they are no slouch, if somewhat rare.

[@shorewall]

You are completely right, Ecks! By the way, my imperial navy would focus on Lancers, Dreadnoughts, Victorys, and ISDs. Love the Dreadnought.

[@Mikey-xz4vn]

Dunno about the looks but I do recall these things in vanilla Empire At War being capable of punching WELL above their weight

[@Gravinus]

Don't forget what is perhaps it's biggest sin against conventional Star Wars ship design aesthetics. It only has a single engine pod! I remember noticing this waaay back when the game release and thought it was very weird, and it really bothers me that this was the model FFG used for Star Wars Armada.

[@alexnejako777]

You can build those in the SW Rebellion RTS game and add them to your fleet. And send them around the galaxy..slowly.

[@imperialoutback-schuby4089]

bit of head canon but what if the MK2 was recommissioned Dreadnaughts that were wrecked but "repairable"?

[@Dallows65]

Easy Retcon for Assault frigate MK2: The Rebellion started to look for and eventually produce a more robust model of "assault frigate" instead of having to scavenge and modify old Dreadnaughts. Also it's not that ugly! It looks like the estranged child of a Mon-Cal and Nebulon B appearances.

[@Macky4941]

It's ugly yet awesome. Can we get a breakdown of all the unique ships from Visions?

[@potatoe5434]

Thank you. Finally some one spits some facts about this ship. I hate it so much

[@benhoody100]

Idk I think it looks sort of unique and cool. The lore makes no sense but I like the unique design!!

[@JDSleeper]

What bugs me the most? One engine. Just one engine. One unarmored engine sticking out like a tail.

[@andrewp6387]

Thank you for pointing out the Nebulon-B! I always thought that was dumb

[@andrewm3210]

TBH I generally ignore the existence of the MK2. Empire at War should have just used the regular Assault Frigate.

[@wattambor5043]

Armada players have been swearing by this battle potato since 2015

[@maxpower3990]

Every time Ecks has background footage from Star Wars:Empire at Ear gameplay it makes me want to replay the game. Then I remember how old the games controls are.

[@nekophht]

Could be worse. Have you ever gotten the urge to replay Star Wars Rebellion? If you think the EaW controls are old, just wait til you try to get (back) into Rebellion.

[@julianozaur444]

Yeah​@@nekophht. Plus the mods of eaw are easily able to make the game feel way better for its age

[@thepackmaster5411]

I do love the Assault Frigate MK-2. I think it's actually a really cool-looking ship. I do enjoy the bulbous design of it as it looks tough and a lot tankier than other ships.

[@18Krieger]

The Assault Frigate MKII is actually one of my favourite Star Wars Ships. But I agree that it has little in common with the Dreadnaught, which I assume is because its not retrofitted like the MKI but instead its more like the Starhawk and build out of Dreadnaughts.

[@Rastek19]

Mk2 spamming is one of the most annoying things the ai can come up with, specially with the no cap instant building mods

[@zaneh1719]

What is the game you are using as a visual on the dreadnought and assault frigate?

[@cloudcleaver23]

Short and digestible? Did you just tell us to eat your shorts?

[@cartho1103]

It just looks like an upgraded Nebulon B without the back end

[@marcroberge23]

I always thought the Mark II Assault Frigate was a frontally amputated and modified Nebulon B...

[@Crabbok]

It's absolutely an ugly ship! However - it's also one of the best ships in Star Wars Armada. Shame it isn't prettier - else people might use it more often!

[@MellowMutts270]

If KZbin recommends shorter vids we should all probably start watching longer ones.

[@79geargrinder]

Does it really matter what it looks like? All that matters is if it can fight.

[@TheDemigans]

The dumbest HISTORY for a ship design. The design of the Mark 2 for example seems very good to me. The "uglyness" of a fat helicopter gunship that is designed for war rather than aestetics.