is this whole thing blown out of proportion??

Hey y'all!
I am trying to get back into the KZbin thing, and on the kind suggestion of one of my awesome subscribers, I tried to form an opinion on the women's world cup kiss scandal.
Hope you enjoy!

[@R1ckj333]

Personally i am of the opinion that this is a deserved reaction to something "we" as "enlightend" and "progressive" western world have ignored and trivialized for far too long, I am a 33 year old Dutch male and i am disgusted by this continued behaviour, Thank you for sharing your disturbing and disgusting personal experiences and thanks for a well developed and nuianced view from a womans perspective.

[@JustAnotherPerson4U]

Part 2 of my comments. 😂 As someone who is half-spanish and actually has a pretty decent grasp on the culture via my family and spending summers and winters there. It actually infuriates me when there are people out there trying to use culture as a defence saying the spanish are more affectionate, therefore he did nothing wrong. I even had someone say to me that I wasn't spanish for not understanding this... pissed me off a bit. Those people have no clue into spanish culture. That there are unspoken rules. Which being autistic is a bit hard for me to always grasp. But the general rules are that cheeks kiss greetings are common for friends and perhaps really friendly spaniards towards strangers. Maybe forehead kisses in times of jubilation and affection. A kiss on the lips would only typically be done if you were romantic partners or really close same sex friends (usually between females and it depends on friend group) Again, this is a general rule as even spaniards are individuals. As I am autistic and half-british I can be slightly more reserved compared to the rest of my family. (Although to british friends, slightly spanish as well so I'm truly halfway there.😅) But what I know is that even if they don't understand it. If a spaniard respects you as a person, they'll respect your boundaries. Rubiales didn't do that. And it's not just me. Many spaniards don't like what he did. The ones who don't have an issue are surprise, surprise, usually men with some women. I am like you. For just that act alone, I feel he needed to face some sort of harsh punishment. Not losing his job (not at first cos I think he's kind of has dug that hole for himself by both his reaction and probable problematic history). But he is her boss essentially and he is in a position of power over Hemoso. He should've controlled himself in that moment and held back or redirected to the forehead at least. It's not like the other men who were congratulating them didn't control themselves. You can't use culture as a defence for lack of consent. Otherwise, I can use it to say that culturally Spain is a patriarchal society which has typically passively allowed or even encouraged violence against women throughout history to this very day. For that act alone, if he had apologised to Hermoso sincerely and denounced his own actions saying he will do better. I would not have an issue. I have an issue with him trying to defend himself and especially people on social media who trying and justify it and when the spanish team and even a male player from the spanish team back her up and then they say just clearly sexist and misogynistic things... it makes me angry and sad that we've come so far yet this is still around. And my own father doesn't take it as seriously as she should, neither does my mother who's spanish. That's probably because of their generation as well that because no one was physically hurt, it's best to let it go. Not just a spaniard way of thinking. It's kind of an older person way of thinking.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

i agree that his position of power and the reactions afterwards are the main reasons there need to be consequences for him

[@UrdVerdande-dt3ey]

The little kisses and grabs might seem insignificant to some people, but these unwanted attentions leave the recipients feeling violated and humiliated, and it can also break down your self-confidence and make you doubt yourself, your behaviour and your worth. It has never been ok to "help yourself" to someone else's lips or body - not now, not thirty years ago, not ever. Fair to say it is a very short-lasting kiss, but it was unprofessional of him (so was his crotch-grabbing in front of all the world and standing next to a 16 year old girl and her mother). His style of celebration would put a damper on (probable understatement) other people's celebrations. Why would that be ok? He made himself an example and should face the consequences.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

agreed!

[@JustAnotherPerson4U]

Wow, I didn't expect you to take my suggestion up like a day later. This makes me feel elated that this inspired you. (A moment of jubilation you might say from my current miserable existance with gastrisis atm. Can hardly eat any foods with flavour. Got to be very mild or bland. And no acidic or citric fruits. And stomach hurts, and can hardly sleep and just looking for periods of respite. 😢) But yeah, it really was interesting hearing your thoughts because it echoes mine a lot. A lot of the backlash imo is kind of a hole he dug for himself with that half-arse non-apology and then stuff he's said after. You are right. Women and girls do experience just everyday casual sexism and inappropriate touches in general. (Not a blanket rule of course, But I'd be surprised to find someone female who never had one incident) I know I've had more than once had some boys... not exactly sexually assault or touch me in an inappropriate place like a crotch or boob (although that has happened sometimes). But it's definitely felt weird and uncomfortable. I knew, it was because I was female. I just knew. It wasn't a coincidence or they were doing it to everyone. There are times you can just tell, if it's happened enough. One story I'll always remember is what I was 12 years old in Ireland and I was walking on a wall (you know where you balance on a low stretch of wallbas a kid) with my friend who was a bit ahead of me. And these group of boys who were at best late teens like 16-18 year olds and at worst early 20s. And they came up beside me and I don't know what they said, but I ignored them except one of them reached up and brushed their hand against my exposed leg in a kind of... light way. I'd almost say sexual but it didn't get that far... so it was just inappropriately intimate and felt really uncomfortable. I looked down at them and said in the lowest, coldest voice 'Don't touch me.' They kind of laughed but then left me. They went to my friend (who was a couple years younger than me), who I saw they didn't touch thankfully. But she told me that thet said something like 'hey pretty face.' To her. In a way that was definitely inappropriate. So yeah, this happens to girls of all ages. I shall do another comment cos this is long enough. And it shall relate to the arguments of this kiss more.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

haha yes, I had thought about this topic and when i saw your comment i thought - why not just do it to get into a flow again! so thanks for that! ..but on the topic, yeah i guess unfortunately most women face something of the sort during their lives

[@khaoyanelson4849]

Its called the joy of seeing your team win a long awaited trophy.

[@nobletarabas1]

Exactly!! But his previous actions are disturbing

[@jessicaandtrains7768]

The madness of the modern (western) world.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

i mean, if my boss (regardless of gender) would grab my head and plant a kiss on my lips, i would be pissed regardless of the situation (even if we had just experienced the greatest victory of our professional lives) ..yeah in the western world we are taught to respect each other's bodily integrity, and that is a GREAT thing

[@jessicaandtrains7768]

@randomfemaleYT men kiss each other in these situations. It's not sexual and the majority of us will never be in a similar position to what happened. There's more at play here though.

[@pieraonofri1606]

I hadn’t heard of this and it doesn’t look good but then that all depends on what she felt! What did she say? Did she complain? I think your experience is some what different…in the cloakroom there was no reason for him to do that , but like you said he had problems. The other incidents are typical male reactions unfortunately. But, the girl being kissed…it all depends what happened before and after that kiss. And it’s his reaction that is questionable…I agree with you. However, being Italian, the “Latino” in him “gives” him an excuse to do it….Italians are the same! Although I must say the younger generations seem to have more consideration for girls now…but, then why do we have more rape victims than ever before? Or is it because finally woman are speaking out and telling the police and it didn’t happen before? Is the “caliente” factor in Latino males real? You’ve brought up a good question.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

she said in a liverstream right after that she did not like it, the whole team is on boycott now for him to lose his position .. she also made a statement detailing her position on this, you can find it for example here: www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/jennifer-hermoso-full-statement-luis-rubiales-rfef-spain

[@pieraonofri1606]

@@RandomEuropeanYT I started hearing about this after I read your comment and they are saying that, when they hugged that moment, she actually lifted him up they were both so happy and she went in to then tell all her mates that he had kissed her and not in an upset way!!

[@scarba]

I think it’s incredibly entitled to assume another person consents to be touched, lips to lips is very intimate and she could not escape because he grabbed her head. It’s very patronizing to someone who just won the World Cup to put her in her place like that, I mean what is she supposed to do in front of millions of people on camera? She had no choice, this was not mutual. I have a lot of stories I could tell about men ignoring their boundaries and it started age 12, (a man flashed at me on the way to school). I’m not traumatized but all these incidents are burned in my brain and I haven’t forgotten any of them. The last one about ten years ago, I was about 44 years old and assumed I was past the age of all this, a delivery man bringing me a table to my house asked me to sign for it on the way out and he decided to feel my breast. I was so humiliated and angry and asked him why he did this and he said to see what it felt like, (he was about 45 years old himself). So pathetic an excuse. Of course it feels like a bag of flesh. I have been nervous letting any man in my place ever since for any reason. It’s a problem if you need a plumber or electrician or whatever. I am a nervous wreck since that happened. Don’t touch anyone unless they are specifically asking for it!!!!!

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

oh wow, that last experience you described is as random as they come (hope you submitted a complaint to the company) ... but i too feel slightly paranoid whenever a male stranger enters my home, I am always very aware of their movements etc ..you just never know, and the fact is that men are on average physically stronger, which means that if you happen to encounter that one bad seed, it's not likely to go well

[@scarba]

@@RandomEuropeanYT I didn’t report it because I was so upset and I thought nobody would believe me. It’s not just being touched that’s upsetting but I always feel men like that are somehow psychopathic because they are not treating you as another human being. It went through my mind that he knew where I lived. It just shows that you don’t even have to be young and attractive to be assaulted. It can be anyone.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

@@scarba there's definitely something deeply wrong with an individual who'd do something like that .. and you are right about him knowing where you live, wouldn't want to risk a crazy stalker either

[@perrerapuertorosario5550]

Enjoyed hearing your views on this. He was in the wrong and could have easily made a heartfelt apology but didn’t. I think that offended her more then she appeared to be milking the situation, but it was all his fault. Being a dick cost him his job. We all make mistakes but the difference is how we deal with them

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

thank you!! and i completely agree on that last notion!

[@anthonymolloy9953]

Did anyone ask how the girl feel

[@anthonymolloy9953]

Felt

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

yes, she said on a livestream right after that she did not like it ..she also issued a long statement and the whole team decided to refuse to play unless this guy loses this position of being president .. her statement is all over the internet, for example in this article: www.si.com/fannation/soccer/futbol/news/jennifer-hermoso-full-statement-luis-rubiales-rfef-spain

[@nobletarabas1]

Let's be honest... Would the world be upset, let alone talk about it if he kissed a man?

[@R1ckj333]

If the guy did not want it then yes i would.

[@asuncionorosa3506]

While holding his head? Definitley

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

if it was a guy, the context would probably not be the same - which was the point of my video: it is the shared experience of women of having our bodily autonomy violated throughout our lives by random men .. but i don't know, y'all tell me how men would feel about this if it had been a man on the receiving end

[@rebeccaday8612]

The kiss was about him, he didn't even consider how Ms. Hermoso felt, and the whole debacle over the non-apology and his mother's hunger strike is again all about Mr. Rubiales. I agree with everything you said.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

thank you!!

[@sammemrys8195]

Consent is the issue at hand and the player has stated she did not. In fact, many of the players on that team stated they would no longer play if that man remains. He could not have known the young woman's personal history, which may have included sexual assault, and such an action on his part could have had very serious consequences. It was not a peck on the cheek, he grabbed her head and forced the kiss on the mouth. Hence the reason for, and the importance of consent.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

exactly to all of it! some have commented that it would not be a big deal if he had kissed a man.. but then, men don't generally face the same type of violations of bodily integrity on a daily basis comparable to women

[@lilyalejandro8194]

I like you, thought at first...its the excitement of the moment, was not thinking...in essences...giving him a pass, a one off. When I listened to his apology...I felt...you are not sorry...I do not feel he should be in "power". I too do not want to him suffer, lose his job etc.. If we excuse this...will we also excuse future unwanted actions? I think not.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

yeah.. the attitude and him being in a position of power is a toxic combination

[@burlesque836]

Well, I am 100% Spanish, and I assure you that, although it is true that we can be more affectionate than the majority of Europeans, we are not affectionate with just anyome, much less with our superiors in the workplace, which, as an exception, could lead to the two kisses on the cheek at Christmas, and not necessarily even that. We are affectionate in that we show our affection quite easily, in public but to people we trust and have a personal relationship with. Not to random people. This behaviour is unacceptable even for "affectionate Spaniards". I really appreciate the profound reflection on this issue.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

thank you for the insight!

[@acc426]

It was highly inappropriate in my opinion. Whatever his explanation or intention or “in the moment” euphoria, it is still an inappropriate gesture and he should admit and apologise for it without excuse. The way I look at it is that it’s a work event, the guy is hierarchy and he used his position to forcefully kiss a woman and he did it in a very public way. He grabbed and pulled her head clearly with the intention to kiss her on the lips. I don’t know if either one of them is in a partnership or not, if yes I’d say it’s even more (if possible) disrespectful and inappropriate. I believe the player said afterward that she was not ok with it so, at the very least, she should have gotten a proper and sincere apology which she could have accepted or not. In any case the guy really seems to be … 🍆 The federation will have to decide how they want to be represented.

[@RandomEuropeanYT]

agreed!

[@jacquelinewilliamson8933]

A kiss on both both cheeks with no body contact that is ok but what he done was wrong.