Is Tifa the Crux of Final Fantasy VII Rebirth? Seal Team 7 with TifaTheMonk

[@cynicalidealist11]

I think a lot of the shippers are very irrational about this. I think I have a very clear and basically bullet proof interpretation that doesn’t cherry pick evidence because I’m not a shipper, I just want to get at the truth. Here it is: With Tifa and Cloud it’s a relatively straightforward dynamic, they both like each other romantically and have since their childhood. Aerith is aware of it and frequently teases them about it knowing their shy personalities, in an effort I think to get them closer together. We even see Yuffie doing this in Rebirth. Aerith on the other hand is more complicated. She starts to like Cloud (and he starts to like her as well) and so she toys with the fantasy of it but can’t let herself fully pursue it for several reasons. One reason being her best friend has liked him since her childhood and she wouldn’t want to ruin that, that’s just not her character at all. Another reason being she still has some lingering, unresolved feelings for Zack. And potentially another reason being a part of her knows she has a bigger purpose to fulfill as a cetra that won’t allow her to live the kind of normal life she wants. And yes I do think Aerith and Tifa have talked to each other about all this. I think they’re very open with each other. Every other interpretation I’ve heard besides this one has not made sense to me.

[@skh-22]

I think Tifa is a thematic symbol for self-compassion and acceptance. And ultimately that’s how Cloud sheds his fake persona, finds his real strength, and overcomes the dark parts of himself (Sephiroth). I think the whole story can be read as a single person, a single psyche, and it’s a map of self-actualization. And it actually integrates a lot of issues today - loneliness, social pressures and expectations, and the trap of hatred and despair which only alienates us further.

[@Thereasonableclerith]

Yup, and the whole, 'DNA of an alien' that's being controlled by a hostile third party, who is actually a pseudo god, plugged into the lifeblood of the planet. These are all things we have to deal with on almost a daily basis.

[@Tootongtaoako]

For what makes the ff7 story special is that most of the characters are not redundant and even complimentary to each other's part in the narrative. Take Tifa and Aerith and their relstionship to Cloud's story. First I have to say that its Cloud who beat Sephiroth in the OG by his willpower like when he threw him into the lifestream. Sephiroth knows this so he has to break him down and to do that he has to breakdown his relationships, the strongest is Cloud's childhood and promise to Tifa. Tifa is what hold him to his humanity. Aerith will not be able to do that because she does not have the depth of their relationship plus she has the burden of trying to save the world. The sad thing is Aerith does not want this burden but accepts it for her friends. The fact that Aerith hardly mentions Zack is like she has set her love aside to focus on what she has to do but at the same time her when given the chance her love is actively trying to save Zack with Zack actively trying to get to her. Zack loves hervso much that he is willing for Cloud to be the one to save Aerith. FF7 have 2 love stories going in parallel but different. Childhood friends and starcrossed lovers. This story awesome!

[@crashwithkirby6708]

I have a feeling that the 7th infantry will end up being the ones that help commandeer the submarine. In the OG, it was the same captain and 3 soldiers that help cloud practice for the parade, so it would make sense.

[@alchalant4663]

I was thinking they would be the high wind crew but this seems even more likely

[@Elazul.Lapislazuli]

@@alchalant4663 why not both? :D

[@Kallelinski]

Personally I think way too many people generalize "love". There are vast variants of love. My love for my mother is not the same for my niece, or a girlfriend, a wife, pizza, my dog or cat, a friend and so on. To say that Cloud loves Aerith the same as Tifa is just bonkers to me, especially if you consider Zack. Aerith sees Zack in Cloud and Cloud acts (sometimes) like Zack. In Remake Cloud almost does exactly the same as Zack did in Crisis Core and obviously Aerith is reminded by that in every way. Aerith even mentions it in the Golden Saucer date, that she will try to see Cloud in him and not just Zack. She literally admits looking at Cloud, but seeing Zack. She still can't get over the fact that she still likes/loves Zack after all those years despite everything that happened between Aerith and Cloud. If you remove Zack out of Cloud, you will lose any romantic feelings in this relationship, because that was the sole pillar of the romantic relationship. They still might love each other as friends can, but not anymore in a romantic sense. The last date with Aerith is the perfect example for this, Cloud is visibly irritated by the whole date, he can't enjoy anything about it, because it isn't right. He even tells her to stop, but continues for her sake. I also don't understand what is so wrong about CloudxTifa and AerithxZack, honestly all 4 seem to be the perfect fit for each other and only each other. I think way too many want to overwrite Cloud's personality with their own (just like Sephiroth lol), just because they like Aerith more, while disregarding what the character itself wants. Ironical I liked Aerith more than Tifa in Remake, but Rebirth completely sold me on Tifa and as I read already the very best parts with Tifa weren't even in the game yet. I couldn't imagine in my wildest dream that Cloud doesn't love Tifa with his entire heart and would be rather with someone else after having played Rebirth and the same applies to Aerith and Zack after playing Crisis Core.

[@BigBalls94]

You must be playing a different game if you think Aerith doesn't have feelings for Cloud and her feelings towards him is ONLY because of Zack. Multiple times she says she’s trying to find the real Cloud. Even during their date in Gold Saucer, when Cloud brings up Zack she immediately changes the topic and wants to focus on Cloud, but then I doubt you would have seen that. Shippers always play the game with blinders on to see what they want to see and alleviating anything in support of their ship while discrediting anything that doesn't support it. Saying that, I do want Cloud to get together with Tifa in the end because it can never happen with Aerith as shes dead.

[@talmanes4589]

This 100% spot on. The ending to Advent Children already largely bears this out too. Spoiler warning for that movie just in case you want to avoid. Zack and Aerith walking together into the lifestream while Cloud and Tifa smile at each other ready to move on with their life.

[@TrevorNickell]

The part that choked me up (as if there was only one) was when she was in the Lifestream & she asks "Cloud... Is this... Am I dying?". I knew she wasn't, there was no question there but it was HOW the line was delivered. She sounded so genuinely scared & sorrowful, it cut right though my heart even with knowing better.

[@dreamphoenix]

Awesome conversation and ideas. Thank you.

[@Valentien23]

When are YOU gonna collab with Schrödinger? It would be great to see !

[@dreamphoenix]

@@Valentien23 I am honoured by the very thought of this! Thank you.

[@holy9781]

Tifa gives so much love in this game.she really does feel like the piece that pulls everything together.tifa maybe my fav female in anygame.she so sweet,yet strong.classy and beautiful.shes perfect.her moment with the weapon(evem though it was mutz) the music,the voice acting,amazing

[@BLa-lq2bs]

I totally would LOVE to see Tifa face off with her “Master” Zhangan. I’ve totally imagined how that would go down. My own little head cannon.

[@Trippincozy69]

Yes, in Wutai in a zen garden that’s my hope

[@Omnicloudx13]

Would be awesome if this happens after Cloud leaves the party and Tifa becomes the leader for a while. She'd face off against Zangan and learn her Final Heaven limit break in the 3rd game, would be dope!

[@ETHomerin]

I think that could be a good optional challenge.

[@88killerific]

That is a mad idea- I love it. Was hoping to see others thinking similarly. Edit: I would also like to submit '7 Seconds to the End' as a name change for her final limit break.

[@joshz2491]

Regarding the lifestream scene I actively disagree with Baby Seal here. Cloud is by nature not a people person, struggles emotionally and doesn’t voice his inner thoughts and feelings to anyone except tifa and even that is difficult for him to do. Not only is what you are describing not believable at all given Cloud's general struggle with being vulnerable about himself; it would change the scene from a deeply personal moment where Cloud and Tifa reach mutual understanding about their shared memories and each other. It's not supposed to be a cliche everyone is here anime moment. You can just easily move party reaction to the real Cloud to after he makes his apology to the entire party on the ship and save Aerith's burial for the return to the forgotten capital. I think people forget that Cloud pulls Tifa into his subconscious, there is no way I would believe he would do that for the entire party. It just wouldn't fit the point of the scene and would undermine the entire point of it.

[@ShilohLux.13]

I completely agree with you. I think Babyseal is just trying to stay out of the shipping community because if he sided with one then the other would attack him. I think he knows from OG what will happen, but is just trying to save himself from trouble. His way would be ultra corny and would destroy that scene. Be pretty much game over for the series because so many wants a real remake.

[@thebrigade7684]

This is actually a good point I never really realized because generally this cloud restoration is called a lifestream sequence but what ultimately happens is that after the fall Tifa calls out to cloud and he pulls her into his own subconsciousness because she's the person he trusts the most to allow such a thing I don't doubt he trusts the party at all but not nearly at the level he has with Tifa. Though babyseal might just refer to that Tifa is also going to enter the memories he has with the party to acknowledge that it is the real Cloud shining through but him pulling barret or red into his subconsciousness sounds like some fanfic

[@ShilohLux.13]

@@thebrigade7684 No kidding. Barret, Red, and the rest of the team is no where as close as Tifa is to Cloud. Bringing them into the LS scene would destroy it for longtime fans. It would definitely be proof that they are trying to cater to all fans instead of the actual story.

[@joshz2491]

@@thebrigade7684 I think it is totally fine if other characters pop up in Cloud's additional memories, but as far as navigating through Cloud's mind Tifa is the only one who can do it. Thankfully the devs seem to be aware of that so fingers crossed it is the most faithful scene of the entire trilogy because they obviously care about it too.

[@TheMidgarBlues]

This. 👍🏻

[@LelanWellz]

I like this guest a lot, she knew her stuff and presented it in a respectful and funny way. Also the devs should just do what they want. In 1997 developers wasn’t crowd sourcing fans for creating the plot: I trust their vision.

[@MariusBoss11458]

Yeah. Monk is great. Like she said, she's best known from Twitter. Now, on there, she sounds more aggressive (gotta defend her faves) but as you can see, she's more chill here. I do hope her the best.

[@thatstheway2429]

@@MariusBoss11458agreed mostly. She got very defensive in the shipping convo, but I guess that’s expected when you’re a shipper of fictional characters.

[@MariusBoss11458]

@@thatstheway2429 It's not just the fact that she ships em, people mischaracterize them. Telling lies just so their ship is intact. That's just not right.

[@thatstheway2429]

@@MariusBoss11458are you talking about her or other shippers?

[@thatstheway2429]

@@MariusBoss11458regardless, I think it’s such a weird thing to care so much about, even in the context of this game.

[@linkofhyrule6580]

I wanna see Tifa divekick Scarlett on her stupid head like she did the Red Dragon

[@KoriDess]

Lmao, imagine thinking a kill stealing trash can is strong just because she landed a final blow on the creature that was beaten by 3 ppl and was ready to die on its own. Hope Scarlet flips her outta here with one of her robots, just like she did in Gongaga

[@mexmexican8619]

I love Tifa so much

[@jamesmartin2740]

I had a weird transition. In Remake I felt Cloud and Aerith had the better chemistry. All that time together in Wall Market and exploring Midgar as a duo really seemed to gravitate them together. In rebirth however, I felt Tifa’s relationship with Cloud stole the show and completely cemented them as one another’s true soul mates. I aimed to get Tifa as my date and that’s who I got. Both times. It was perfect. Aerith will always be the love that could have been in another life; but not this one as Aerith’s purpose is something else and although just as important, it is not to be Cloud’s love partner.

[@ourfamilyaccount]

But that's just it. None of us have played the 3rd game. That, "..love that could have been in another life" might still occur. Here's what we know. Sephiroth in FF7 Rebirth (late game) talked about worlds coming into creation when fate is quested, at the altar Cloud goes against fate by not letting Sephiroth stab Aerith, he chose to block his strike. How I view it is now Cloud now simultaneously sees two worlds as one. He witnesses the main timeline also known as the Beagle Stamp dog timeline..and.. this new world he created to save another version of Aerith (Stamp dog breed unknown at this time). That's why when he steps outside he sees a rift in the sky, the new world he created for alive Aerith is one closer to be destroyed. They mentioned that in the game that the sky rift the citizens view as an omen or something. We truly don't know the accurate meaning but at least that's an inkling. Again we don't know what the developers have planned but it would be neat if we could still save Aerith. And more pressing how Cloud feels about all the people he courted throughout the adventure or let it be player-choice, we'll see. I agree with you that in Rebirth the best date scene was with Tifa; I've just always been a fan of Aerith and Cloud so it would be a delightful for me if they ended up together or had the choice to pair them together. You never know, maybe they're saving their kiss for this 3rd game. That shipper community just had to patiently wait, lol.

[@ShilohLux.13]

@@ourfamilyaccount I’ve played OG and I don’t really see this happening. Rebirth and Remake were around 90%-95% in line with the OG. That would be interesting, but I just don’t see it happening.

[@Step43099]

@@ourfamilyaccountYeaaaa I doubt it. Only because they’ve said the story at its core and the major plot beats are not changing. Sooo personally logically I don’t see it happening, but hey maybe you’ll get it.

[@ourfamilyaccount]

@@Step43099 true true; I need to be more realistic, it probably won't occur.

[@thatstheway2429]

By glow up do you mean improvements from the OG? Actually never heard that team. I do agree that Tifa is phenomenal, but for myself, Yuffie is by far the best improved. Mostly because she was irrelevant/a negative in the original.

[@joshz2491]

I think it is hard to call a previously missable character “improved” She was barely a character in the original. Yuffie would qualify for most improved in the third game I feel like.

[@thatstheway2429]

@@joshz2491I get what you mean, but she was still an annoying and unlikable character haha

[@rzxwm10]

You chickens. Bwok bwok bwok bwok bwok

[@mindxfuneral]

@@joshz2491not hard at all. Adding more depth to a character that was missable and didn’t have much depth is.. an improvement

[@joshz2491]

@@mindxfuneral yeah, I get that but I guess my point is that it is like giving kids a participation award. Why should I praise them for doing something that I already fully expect of them

[@utahgator8895]

As for the Life Stream Sequence. Im 100% convinced that just like in the original game it will be a triangle but in Part 3 the triangle will be Zack(Body), Tifa(Heart), and Aerith(Soul) of piecing Cloud back together.

[@KingdomKeyJT]

You have no idea how entertaining it was to see a conversation like this on Seal Team 7. On the last few of these, it was clear that you and EVERY guest so far has been avoiding the shipping conversation and for good reason. But seeing it on full display is so funny and absolutely full on entertainment.

[@spiderhulk26]

Barret ( scarlet tried to kill barret and his friend and responsible for destroying hometown ) and yuffie ( scarlet is responsible for sonan 's sisters dieing and trying to kill sonan and yuffie ) have beef with scarlet . I am not sure if tifa has that much beef with scarlet yet .

[@TheDGBgamers]

Yeah, I assume Tifa/Yuffie/Barret will fight Scarlet in the return to Midgar, while Cloud/Red/Vincent fight Hojo.

[@SamuelSabharwal]

@@TheDGBgamerstifa Barret yuffie fight scarlet the others will go on a deepground excursion

[@kyle101547]

1:18:58 Yes this! Exploring real life themes is such a big part ff7. I guess when you do get older you begin to understand that feelings are not so simple. I think if both Clerith and Cloti fans just accept that things are complicated, there would be no debate and it would enhance the ff7 story.

[@coffeeandjelly4614]

I really appreciate Babyseal's view of the "love triangle" In my younger years, I used to ship Cloti hard, and dismissed every Clerith interaction as "Zack coded" but as I grew older, I came to realise that Cloud can have feelings for both girls and that's actually okay. It's not the end of the world and it doesn't detract from Cloti and what they've built together in AC. When I quit seeing the story with shipping goggles, I came to appreciate the story more tbh. TifaTheMonk sounded pissed by the end when Clerith was brought up. It's interesting because I would have the exact same reaction she did if I were asked this back in the day. Point I'm making is, it's such a better story without the shipping goggles. Props to Babyseal for asking the good questions! I know this guest loves Tifa, I actually follow her on Twitter, but it'd be interesting too to get the POV of a fan who is not too invested in a ship.

[@uchiha_blaq]

I feel like Cloud small showings of attraction towards Aerith is because of having Zack memories. Aerith even knew this and tells him in the scene in Remake to not fall for her because those feelings aren't real. Everything about this story clearly paints out that Cloud is for Tifa. Cloud has always been for Tifa. Tifa is why Cloud joined soldier. Cloud wanted to protect her because he felt he failed her as a child. Cloud cares for Aerith because Cloud in his core cares for his friends. This is contrast with fact he has trouble conveying his emotions. On the other side, Aerith develops feeling for Cloud but she is also aware she paints him over Zack as they are similar. This evident where tells Cloud she knows now where they stand. Which further proves Cloud and Tifa is the correct pairing. If Aerith knows it the Fandom should know it.

[@BigBalls94]

The whole not falling in love with her isn't because of Zack, its because she knows what her fate is and doesn't won't to hurt Cloud. Then again your a shipper which means you play with blinders on and wouldn't have seen that angle as shippers only see stuff that supports there ship.

[@thebrigade7684]

​@@BigBalls94considering how many times you called everyone a toxic shipper with blinders on I'm actually starting to think that you should probably look in the mirror more

[@harry5384]

@@uchiha_blaq lol just cause he thought he was in Zack’s place in nibelheim doesn’t mean he has memories of aerith lol. Cloud doesn’t all of a sudden have all of Zack’s memories😭. He was IN NIBELHEIM that’s why he was able to create such a strong illusion of him being this soilder. “I heard this story from my friend Zack, and created this illusion made up of what I HAD SEEN in MY life” the gaps in the story he didn’t know which were Zack’s pov he probably heard from Zack. It’s a love triangle for a reason. I think cloud and tifa make the most sense but that doesn’t mean cloud and Aerith also didn’t like each other as well. Saying people who think aerith and cloud like each are wrong is dumb. In the og it’s not even a question that aerith likes cloud, her and Zack weren’t even serious in the og. The devs clearly don’t wanna lean into the cloud and Aerith thing cause Zack is all of a sudden an important character now. She also says to cloud in the og that she’s searching for HIM. And in rebirth she literally says “right now I wanna be with you” Aerith at the end says “atleast I know where you and I stand now” because she knows her and cloud can’t be a thing for obvious reasons. Also I don’t think that’s the same Aerith. This Aerith clearly knows she died so she has a different perspective, she’s not gonna tell Cloud that she’s in love with him knowing she’s gonna die lol, that would destroy cloud even more.

[@uchiha_blaq]

@harry5384 Cloud has some of Zacks memories because he and Zack share the last remaining S cells that were used in their experimentation. The S cells are essentially Genova cells intertwined with Sephiroth's natural born DNA. One of Genova's powers is imitation as explained through the narrative. All those that share her cells have links to each other. Yes he created a persona that was heavily influenced by him, but he clearly developed feelings due to the fact some of Zack imprinted on him even to the point he perfectly at times can mimic Zack. He even states in the story that there are things he shouldn't know that he does and things he knows he shouldn't. It's one thing to make up a persona but some stuff he remembers that are shown to actually happen to Zack that he was not present for. Cloud may have developed an attraction to Aerith but again it's not really his attraction and that's why he ships with Tifa. His memories will always lead him back to Tifa. This is why in the OG game when he restores his distorted memories he is reminded of who he really is. What you have to understand their is more going on then just Cloud creating a soldier image.

[@harry5384]

@@uchiha_blaq Cloud doesn’t act like Zack whatsoever. Clouds whole persona started when he came across tifa, because she’s the reason he wanted to become a soilder in the first place. He doesn’t think he’s Zack fair. He just thinks he was in Zack’s place. He acts like what he thinks a cool soilder would act like after he saw the one person he wanted to join soilder FOR. People over exaggerate just how much cloud thinks he’s Zack. He knows he’s cloud strife, he just thinks he was a soilder, that’s it, that’s all he took from Zack. He doesn’t have Zack’s memories cause they both have “s cells” lool. He has Zacks memories becuase 1 he was there for most of the events in nibelehim, and 2 Zack was talking to him while he was out. Cloud literally says it after he finds himself in the og. But Yes because of jenova and trauma cloud created the illusion that he was a soilder after he saw tifa, but it no way does he think he’s Zack in the way you’re referring to. Also saying cloud only had feelings for Aerith because Zack’s memories “imprinted” onto him is the biggest cope I’ve ever heard. There’s no way cloud saying “know things I’ve got no right knowing” is referring to Zack’s memories lol. He thinks it’s his memories so why would he think he has no right knowing them? That literally makes no sense. Bro I think cloud and tifa are the perfect choice by the end of the game I’m not arguing that, we agree on that. I’m arguing that it doesn’t mean Aerith and cloud don’t have feelings for each other. That’s why it’s a love triangle, that’s why the Aerith date is canon. Attributing every thing Aerith does or says to Zack (like people do to cloud) somehow is so unfair to her character. That’s a crisis core thing. she’s my favorite character and it’s insane how they made it that Zack is somehow the reason she has her whole personality. In the og she herself says her and Zack weren’t serious. The only reason she even brought him up was cause cloud reminded her of Zack. But that doesn’t mean she only “pretended” to like cloud because he reminded her of Zack. She outright says it she wants to be with cloud and she’s searching for him.

[@michaellindley2292]

The thing that always gets me people forget the timeline of events from the time Cloud meets Aerith up until the time she dies. Cloud has really known Aerith for less than a week and you mean to tell me he falls in love that fast for a girl he barely knows over the girl he's had a crush on since childhood

[@wmen48]

Yes

[@chibiusa]

Probably doesn't help that Aerith is flirty and a hopeless romantic, constantly romanticizing every moment she and Cloud spend together, even as a joke to tease him. So, some people forget that they're still acquaintances to each other. Cloud knows Aerith about as well as he knew Jessie, which is why in Japanese, he regards both as "comrades" (nakama) rather than "friends" (tomodachi). Cloud calling Aerith a "comrade" in the church in Chapter 14 officially ended the love triangle for the Japanese version, since it confirmed that Cloud had no romantic feelings for her. I'm assuming this particular scene/line is what Tifa the Monk was referring to, because now, Japanese Clerith shippers are grasping for anything in the English localization that shows any indication of Cloud x Aerith potentially being canon. Makes no sense to me when Part 3 isn't going to deviate from OG, but shipper logic isn't really logical. lol

[@wmen48]

@@chibiusa that is the low affinity version. High is a different story and shows there is no cannon. He says "he wants meet her". Which is tokyo slang for being attracted.

[@SuperRamos619]

You also forget that Cloud also absorbs Zack's memory. It creates a connection to Aerith, even if Cloud doesn't understand it. So it makes perfect sense for Cloud to feel attracted to Aerith in a short amount of time.

[@wmen48]

@@SuperRamos619 check ever crisis part with tifa and cloud meeting in midgar. He doesnt absorb zacks memories. Jenova absorbs tifas the clouds about tifa in makes a circuit. When tifa says you went to be a soldier jenova copy pastes zacks mannerisms ands skills but not his memories. Cloud is very robotic for some time and tifa gives good questions to which cloud has no answers. And he should know regular soldier things but does not.

[@xcom54]

I agree the ships have been settled if you want a happy ending: Cloud & Tifa, Zack & Aerith. That is the best outcome, 2 ships. Now the more interesting topic is the bromance, especially the toxic bromance with Sephiroth, Chadley and Roche. Those 3 stalk Cloud to the end of the world, that is some serious obsession.

[@JujuKek]

I'm team Tifack

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

@@JujuKek From a psychological point of view you're right. But sadly Nojima is not a psychologist.

[@thehoneybunempress1664]

Sefikura for life. Get yourself a man who loves you even from beyond the grave lmao.

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

@@thehoneybunempress1664 Good point lol

[@Thereasonableclerith]

Given the trajectory we're on, SE will soon write in a Tifa/Zack tryst. Hell, he's already made his way around Yuffie and Aerith - someone at SE has a bit of a crush on that boy.

[@kayladaly8378]

Clark is totally responsible for feeding my FF7 withdrawals.. thank you so much for putting out so much quality thought provoking content

[@nicolascastano7222]

Cloud LIKES Aerith, shes incredibly important to him.... but at the end of the day he LOVES Tifa. Thats why the dream date sequence at the end of rebirth is so important. Aerith too, acknowledges she also LIKES cloud a lot.. but its not LOVE. BTW, as a cloti fan, I agree with Schrödinger that Aerith is probably going to show up at the LFS sequence in some shape or form to address her death, but Tifa is till going to be the FOCUS, HEART and SOUL of it.

[@HanhNguyen-vx5us]

I think so, too

[@EpicRosalina]

So then why would she warn cloud about something that never happens? This point of "they are never in love" doesnt make any sense

[@HanhNguyen-vx5us]

@@EpicRosalina Cloud likes both. But Aerith dies. Tifa is the most suitable person. Maybe SE just wants everyone to understand it as simply as that. But there will be people who like Cloti, there will be people who like Clerith and don't want a love triangle.

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

@@EpicRosalina Aerith "Don't fall in love with me" Cloud: "Don't worry gurl, never will" Oh wait, that's actually not what he said.

[@talmanes4589]

@@EpicRosalina Because that's what warnings are? Warning someone after something already happened is pointless. If I warn you not to run barefoot over broken glass, does that automatically mean you were going to do it? That just because I choose to warn you, that somehow automatically makes it so you would have done it? Because that's the logic you are trying to use.

[@geekygamer6938]

1:08:20 I think it is not farfetched at all to have Cloud love Aerith, but I am also someone who doesn't really ship characters. The reality is the characters are more complex than they've ever been, so Cloud does not JUST need to love Tifa or Aerith. To me what makes Aerith's death tragic is that Cloud cared about her on a deep level. She is special and important to Cloud. Similarly, Tifa can bring out who Cloud really is, but on the date with Aerith we also see a different Cloud come out as well. It's not 1997 anymore; just like real life an individual can have feelings and love for more than one person. It also fits thematically that he did love Aerith in some way because he could not accept her death. Does that hurt him loving Tifa in any way? No, she is the one for him and the one he ends up with. I believe in Part 3 they'll offer a bit more conclusion to all this as well to clarify his feelings, but still leave it a little ambiguous. Ultimately when the real Cloud comes out, it is not going to be the one Tifa or Aerith brings out; it's going to be one we have not seen before. It will be a mix of his 16 year old self and his current self who has been through everything.

[@coffeeandjelly4614]

Well said. The guest is a hardcore shipper and engages in ship wars from time to time on Twitter. Not surprising she’d downplay Cloud’s feeling for Aerith

[@talmanes4589]

People also have to acknowledge there are different types of love. Not all love has to necessarily be romantic.

[@Batman_456]

Cloud is “Zack-Cloud” he isn’t even his real self, he loves Aerith but clearly not in love with her, it’s said in the game remake, you feeling are not real

[@major_trenton]

This is a great conversation and great guest. I remember when the devs first talked about the "crux" not changing and people questioning what the crux even was. In general no one seemed to definitively know because everyone has their own thoughts about what the crux is. People mentioned the revisit to Nibelheim, Aerith's death, the first Northern Crater visit, etc. The Lifestream sequence was in there too, but based on the OG nothing was concrete as the answer, it could have been anything. One of the best things Rebirth does with its storytelling is that it introduces what the crux is without most people realizing, and it's Tifa in the Lifestream in this game. The scene plays and everyone is amazed and believes it foreshadows Part 3 masterfully. But, it's not until the ending takes place and you realize what is going on with Cloud that it seems everyone has the same conclusion: the crux is of course the Lifestream sequence. Then you can go back to Remake and it never becomes clearer, that since the beginning the writers have emphasized Cloud breaking down so much more than the OG. From Chapter 1 in Remake it's no longer "this isn't a normal reactor" it's full on hallucination, and in Chapter 2 it's full on manipulation and hallucination, and it gets worse from there. With context the devs and writers have been hammering this home from the beginning, that Cloud's mental state is arguably the most important factor in this whole trilogy. It's all brilliant storytelling.

[@Valentien23]

Schrödinger is so charismatic; and i think he understands what’s the story is about on the highest level;😊 His humor is so dry; it always makes for a unique and relatable experience; and the guest today was incredible;very knowledgeable on Tifa. This was a treat

[@thatstheway2429]

haha I love his dry humor. Any time he brings up Glen I lol.

[@MrFox21121]

I want Tifa to get a prominent boss fight with Sephiroth. Either a one on one or a two on one with Cloud. There is nothing Sephiroth took from Cloud that he didn’t take from Tifa too so it would be very satisfying to see her get some semblance of payback against him. Here’s hoping!

[@talmanes4589]

I'd love a two on one. Actually let's make it a 2x2v1 with Cloud and Tifa in the real world, Zack and Aerith in the lifestream. Switch back and forth. Power couples vs Seph. He took everything from all of them, even more so poor Zack and Aerith.

[@MrFox21121]

@@talmanes4589 okay friend, you and I are sharing brain space, I was totally thinking that too but held back because I didn’t want to get greedy haha but YES! That is the dream! Thank you for putting this out there! Will it into being!

[@talmanes4589]

@@MrFox21121 I didn't actually realize I wanted this until about a week ago, but I really want it now.

[@KoriDess]

So you want her to get one-shotted and thrown in a trash can? Just like Loz did in the Advent Children? Oh, I'm on board, then. Also, it would be nice to see Rude or Reno smashing her face against the ground and Zangan humbling her in one hit for her witlessness and ungratefulness.

[@harry5384]

@@talmanes4589 swear you guys are into fan fiction more than having a good story lool.

[@Nexuish]

Alternative take on what the rift in the sky is implying: Can it be as simple as Fate = The Planet’s memory and Sephiroth is gaslighting the planet by corrupting the lifestream similar to how Cloud is actively being gaslit? I just don’t see how this whole struggle with Sephiroth ever ends without him coming to realize that no matter how hard he struggles against his reality ( he is but a man gifted greatness through science and all the weaknesses inherent with it ) and finally choosing to dissolve into the Lifestream. The ending could be going through and “fixing” each world’s break from fate until we finally have to lock in Aerith and Zack dying, and looping all back to Aerith staring into the mako pipe, seeing what has to be done.

[@1Hollowgoku]

Wow! The 7th entry aiding in the escape from junon I never even thought of that, now I can’t see it happen any other way that was a good idea

[@zeldaoot23]

I tend to ship Cloud with Tifa more, but I agree with Schodingersbabyseal that it’s complicated with Aerith, and real life can be complicated as well. I think part 3 should leave the question of Cloud’s feelings for Aerith up to the player. Explore it, but let the player make Cloud tell Tifa however he felt about Aerith. It’s an RPG, after all, and I don’t personally hunger for some kind of definitive resolution to the question. If the devs feel it’s important to resolve that as part of the story they want to tell, fine, but otherwise I say let people have their fun.

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

SE didn't really resolve this question in 30 years. if they do it now, they are sailing some financially dangerous waters. I think they will keep it ambiguous as always. I don't see them ever declaring anywhere in an interview or an ultimania an official FF7 couple. It's simply too late for that.

[@zeldaoot23]

@@BlackMetal-uv6qm Agreed. I also think it’s ok for Cloud and Tifa to be together in Advent Children and, at the same time, for Cloud to have had romantic feelings for Aerith at one point. It’s even ok to think that Aerith and Cloud might have ended up together if things had turned out differently. The notion that Cloud absolutely must have one “true love” and all others are false seems a little immature and unrealistic to me.

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

@@zeldaoot23 If you look at this story with, especially at the OG story, with neutral eyes, it is indeed a love triangle. Even in the original commercial trailer from 1997 Cloud and Aerith are depicted as a "love that could never be", we all know why. But this implies that there must have been a love interest in the first place. Now it's easy for the player to say "yeah wahtever, one girl died, next" But if you acknowledge that Cloud is a human being with human emotions, things are not that easy. Only a psychopath would operate this way. And a psychopath isn't able to feel love at all, so it's pretty clear that Cloud, as much as he tries to be one, he isn't. He is only covering up his sensitive core with this cool soldier persona. Tifa of course knows that this isn't the real Cloud, but also Aerith with her unmatched empathetic abilities reads him like a book and never gets fooled by his cool fassade. And before the Tifa stans will murder me here, yes I do think that Cloud loves Tifa. Without a doubt. But I also think that Cloud loved Aerith and probably loves her even after she is gone. FF7 is a different kind of story as you would find in a cheap classical romance where it is clear from the beginning, who the main couple will be. The western brains just can't really process that.

[@Jammineyeonline]

43:40 tifa vs. scarlet. Scarlet inside a mech, And tifa inside a WEAPON!!! And she controls inside the round orb. Now that would be wild!!!

[@ETHomerin]

I'm curious if Tifa has temporarily gained some Weapon abilities from chapter 9, and we got a glimpse of those powers when she saw through Sephiroth's illusion for Cloud at the alter. If she has, Aerith might be able to channel power to her from the Lifestream in certain situations. Powers like being able to talk to Cloud's head, like how Aerith did with Planet. Or maybe even a combat upgrade or two.

[@siaf1609]

I like this guest, she knows the lore

[@TifaTheMonk]

Thank you! I do try. I’m slightly obsessed with this game for sure.

[@miguelvasquez1874]

her voice is nails on a chalkboard

[@siaf1609]

@@miguelvasquez1874 It’s not. You can disagree with someone without having to put them down, you have a lot of growing up to do.

[@TifaTheMonk]

@@miguelvasquez1874 let’s hear your voice then. 👀

[@thebrigade7684]

All things considered she was pretty diplomatic regarding this topic if devs have a vision to follow shipping shouldn't be considered if devs say yeah this is still FF7 we are not planning to make a completely different game then Cloud and Tifa not ending together would be pretty substantial retcon to a lot of things in the compilation.

[@wmen48]

The thing is they're milking it. I cannot agree with her or any other shipper for that matter. She claims things are 100% in one direction. But the fact is ppl made literal sites debunking arguments and putting counter quotes. From bought sides it's mathematicaly inneficient to not just copy paste them. If someone cannot see the validity of bought he is just blinded. And that is on the devs.

[@talmanes4589]

@@wmen48 Nah, some people just can't accept being wrong. You see this in all things with all fandoms. People cling to obscure theories for years, often times even after they are debunked by the actual creators. It's hardly unique to games or shipping. I'm seen it with games, books, movies, sports, anything you can think of that has fans. Hell, we have people who will argue the earth is flat. Point being, just because you can find some people advocating for something, in no way makes it valid. A certain portion of the player base fell in love with Aerith on disc one and just never accepted that Cloud's feelings weren't their feelings. Really that simple imo. They thought Cloud was a self-insert hero and when the second half of the game showed he wasn't and he had his own thoughts and feelings that didn't match their own, they just never accepted that reality. Because the reality is that Cloud has never, in any of the games old or new, communicated any romantic feelings for Aerith, verbally or otherwise. The remakes have tried to make it much more obvious but people will cling to those old theories in the face of all odds.

[@wmen48]

@@talmanes4589 I would agree with you. But the developers often lean into such theories. I also loved Aerith on disc 1 BUT only her og version. That is my favorite character in gaming. The best part about her is that we often had great god like characters. But they rarely had a good backstory let alone where so great BEFORE their new position. When you play the second disc and see the real Cloud persona he is a pretty chill dude. He's ok with her death as her choice led to it. And he accepts it. He is open to everybody and still is slow with his actions. But he opens up to Tifa and others. I would argue that is the real beggining of their relationship. And then you get the people who need to research and twist everything ever written and said. And they are on both sides. Of course the expanded universe heavily leans to it with every medium that they sell.

[@talmanes4589]

@@wmen48 I would agree it's the beginning of their relationship in the sense of a real adult lifetime kind of relationship but their love for one another had existed all along. The bond they already had is what let her be able to save him. That's where I think the remakes are doing a better job than the original. They are showing that pre-existing relationship whereas in the OG you basically get it all info dumped on you in the lifestream scene. You can see it when they do reveal everything, but only in hindsight for the most part. They're setting it up better this time.

[@wmen48]

@@talmanes4589 agree and if they kill the Aerith ship I have no problem with it. Just do 100% and tastefuly. Only thing I got differently in og is Tifa misremembers a lot about her relationship with Cloud. It's him saying in lifestream something like, we grew around each other but we didn't really knew each other. That shocks her because she has fond memories of Cloud but suddenly remembers that her first memory is the tower. Cloud shows her the rest. They probably will change this part in remake. But og part is good. It doesn't take anything from them though it's not in line with on a way too a smile.

[@tinatinkvirkvelia1317]

This was great to listen! I read the comments first and some of them were so salty about TTM that I didn't know what to expect lol, but after actually listening it was all very tame, normal and logical and she even held herself back from dropping even bigger truth bombs lol so I can only assume who those comments were from ;)

[@Thereasonableclerith]

Anyone who says 'truth bombs' is part of the problem!

[@CrowsofAcheron]

The angst around the love triangle just shows how emotionally invested many people get in the story and characters. You care about who Cloud ends up with because it's unclear. I do think Cloud and Aerith in Remake had real romantic chemistry. I also think Cloud shows overt affection toward Tifa in both Remake and Rebirth. Acting like one relationship nullifies the other diminishes all the characters involved. Like you said, relationships are messy. If FF7 depicted idealized pairing-off of characters like other games, or even other FF's, then it wouldn't be nearly as gripping of a story.

[@thatstheway2429]

It's actually interesting because the 3 games after (VIII-X) are so blatant and in your face about who the main character is in love with. I think that's what makes Cloud the best MC of that era (and all FFs I've played). He is the most complex, broken, and also fundamentally misunderstood by fans that makes him so interesting. You start the game thinking he's this badass, super stoic lead, when in reality, he's just an awkward, confused but wholly caring and loving individual. Ahh, can't wait for part 3.

[@jeremyfields9009]

Yeah when Cloud saw Aerith in that red dress he just looks at everyone like that lol

[@utahgator8895]

As a person who adores Clerith, its pretty clear that story paves Cloti as the fin.

[@ledgeenddairy1655]

I imagine the "slap fight" will be a boss fight that ends with Tifa slapping her in a cutscene *really* hard that basically knocks Scarlet out. Just to pay homage to the original without it feeling hokey.

[@DevilHunter1994]

I think Scarlet should be the one to slap Tifa. Scarlet's not a martial artist, so for her, resorting to a slap feels more appropriate. After that slap accomplishes exactly nothing, have Tifa respond to the slap by just knocking Scarlet out in one punch. It honestly doesn't make sense for Tifa to ever go easy on Scarlet with a slap, when she has trained to use her fists.

[@JH31videos]

If it's still a one on one between Tifa and Scarlet, Tifa 100% should just punch her in the face. It makes no sense for someone of Tifa's skill and caliber to resort to slapping. Scarlet should initiate because she's useless without her weapons and mechs. Tifa retaliates by punching. She should punch so hard that it breaks Scarlet's nose and the next time we see her she should be completely bandaged up. For someone who values her appearance so much, it'd be comedic justice.

[@emmyicon5598]

Girl knows her stuff! Thank u TifaTheMonk!

[@TifaTheMonk]

Thank you!

[@novachikun]

LOL at Tifa vs Scarlet in a mech fight! Although, I have been wondering if the WEAPON baby/tadpole that took Tifa into the Lifestream might have been Sapphire, since it has blue coloring, while the other baby WEAPON is reddish, and might be Ruby. I think it would be very interesting if Sapphire was somehow tasked by the Planet to protect/prepare Tifa so she can fulfill her role in helping restore Cloud, and then going on to fight Sephiroth. This would help explain Sapphire's future action of blasting a hole for Tifa to escape the gas chamber, assuming that event actually happens in Part 3. If this were the case, how crazy would it be to see Sapphire team up with Tifa in a battle against Scarlet and another one of her crazy mechs! And I have always viewed Cloud's and Aerith's relationship as more like that of an older sister and her vulnerable little brother. Aerith is totally aware of Cloud's predicament, and it would just be very creepy for her to develop true romantic love for such a "hollow" individual. Same applies to Cloud, who is so spiritually and mentally messed up it is ridiculous to think that he can develop new and truly deep romantic feelings of love for anyone. He only has feeings to Tifa because those deep, secret feelings he had for her are something he has had all his life, way before his mind was shattered by Hojo's experiments.

[@pseudocide.]

I think TifatheMonk kind of hit the nail on the head. The "issue" lmao has already been settled over the years lol People just mad their head canon didn't become the real canon.

[@talmanes4589]

BOOM! Big Facts. I think a large majority of the players either don't care about the romance at all, or they are rooting for Cloud and Tifa. I have never actually met someone irl who was pro Cloud and Aerith and I probably know two dozen or more people who've played it. They're loud and obnoxious online for sure, but I don't think there's a lot of them. People who don't care about the romance will never see anything except the romance with Tifa because it's actually in the game versus needing them to imagine a romance with Aerith. So, people who don't care about it at all, which is probably the majority, aren't going to be imagining an Aerith romance. Then among the people who do care about it, I'd guess it's something like 3 to 1 or more in favor of Cloud and Tifa.

[@jinnimoo]

Cloud x Aerith shippers have always been the loud minority 😅 Players who have no interest in shipping all understand who the canon couples are. AC makes it abundantly clear. The moment cleriths make the argument that Cloud was waiting to die and pining after Aerith during AC is when you know they've completely missed the point of the movie and only watched it through shipping goggles.

[@BIGPUUU]

Ya you can just use Google Trends to look at search volume on both Google and KZbin. For both the US and Japan, search phrases on Google for Tifa outweighed Aerith in the past 5 years. Same goes for Cloti vs Clerith. On KZbin, the only time "Aerith" as a search term had higher volume than Tifa was for the week of April 12-18, 2020. That was it. Even in Japan, ティファ (Tifa) outweighed エアリス (Aerith) on both Google and KZbin. Add クラウド (Cloud) into the search and the Tifa combination still has higher search volume. The only two times it was close was during Remake's launch and Rebirth's launch. Outside of those two periods, the combination of Tifa and Cloud search terms had higher volume both in the US and Japan across Google and KZbin for the past 5 years.

[@thebrigade7684]

​@@BIGPUUUSquare enix is pretty aware of this it seems this is partly the reason why they committed to have such changes to their specific Gold saucer date on top of a lot of new additions being around Tifa

[@thehoneybunempress1664]

Facts

[@Shogun00765]

Youre video just gave me inner peace

[@sailormoon7952]

Next we better get a Clerith representation too!

[@holographicwing]

Right tifathemonk is one of the most radical aggressive toxic fans in the whole fandom. A tifa stan who puts down Aerith/Clerith all day long. I sure wonder why she would minimize Clerith, Tifa and Cloti being her entire personality certainly couldn't be why! nope not at all.

[@austingilcher6687]

You should get ARUUU on here so we can hear the interpretation of both sides of the fandom

[@alchalant4663]

Good work just need to keep up this pace on content release for 3 more years 😂😂 give or take 👍👍🥳🥳 thx

[@peppergirlrocks]

His feelings for Aerith seem lukewarm to me with moments where he gets flustered by her because of the things she says or does. In Aerith's GS date, she poured her heart out to him but his reaction was flat. The same goes after they exit the gondola. In the dream date Church scene, we can see he smiles a little when Aerith says she likes him but he doesn't press on the subject but changes it instead. If there were any romantic feelings, it seemed fleeting, it comes and goes. In Tifa's GS date, Tifa is not being direct with her feelings like Aerith is but yet, when she said, "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?" And Cloud said, "Again?" he sounded surprised. Her telling him in an indirect manner that she likes him, was enough for him to give a response, extend his hand out, hug and kiss her. However, I do see the potential of Cloud being with Aerith as a couple, but it'll be a world where Tifa has to be out of the picture, dead. Their relationship will not take off until a couple of years and Aerith will be the one doing most of the heavy lifting before Cloud can grow to love her more.

[@thatstheway2429]

Her points about Tifa being hit on by other guys don’t feel fair, as in comparison to Cloud’s relationship with Aerith. Who is the quality of man that Tifa meets in the story that is actually of high quality. I guess Tifa displays loyalty to Cloud by not reciprocating Corneo and Gus? 😂 Love and attraction is complex. Unless you’re obsessed with one of Tifa or Aerith as a shipper, Cloud clearly has feelings for both. This has been happening to humanity since the beginning of our species. We’re not monogamous in our feelings towards our love interests.

[@coffeeandjelly4614]

TifaTheMonk is a hardcore Cloti. She’s always going to have shipping goggles. You can tell from this podcast that the Aerith x Cloud questions grated her a bit I feel like a more neutral Tifa fan would’ve been a better choice for this podcast. The way she tried to downplay the Aerith dream date because it kept cutting back to Zack’s scenes is an odd take.

[@TheDGBgamers]

She also rejects Johnny, and Barret mentions in Remake she harshly turned someone down that tried to give her flowers.

[@thatstheway2429]

@@coffeeandjelly4614 you said exactly how I felt. I thought this podcast was super interesting and then she got highly, highly defensive. The host asked super reasonable questions and I thought even set her up to answer them in a good way. For the record, I do believe Tifa is the primary love interest of Cloud, but I’m not a shipper in any means and absolutely love Aerith. Cloud is fucked up in the head 😂 I think actual adults can acknowledge that he might have feelings for two pretty, awesome girls and isn’t sure what to do about it. Shit. By the end of Rebirth it feels like Cloud has an imaginary girlfriend and doesn’t even notice Tifa. She wants this story to be tied up with “a simple bow” to settle it. That sounds so god damn boring.

[@coffeeandjelly4614]

@@thatstheway2429 I too think Tifa is the true love interest. I'm also with you and babyseal in thinking Cloud has feelings for both. My issue with shippers is they can't seem to acknowledge this fact. There's no grey areas for them. That's why it's better to appreciate the story without them shipping goggles. And yeah, you can hear the annoyance in her voice when Babyseal started to ask about Aerith. Clotis can't seem to acknowledge the dream date is all about Cloud and Aerith. And it's okay that it's totally a Clerith scene with some romantic connotations. They're friends, Cloud doesn't hate her. So for this guest to say "I'd be pissed if Tifa and Cloud's date gets interrupted with Zack's scenes" says all you need to know about their views. lol. So what if it's interspersed with Zack's scenes? This all happened in the lifestream where Zack is wandering in. I highly doubt Nojima wrote this scene with the intention for players to think that "omg this last clerith date is totally about Zack!!" Come on, this is Aerith's send off. And it's poignant and beautiful. That's the problem with shippers in general.

[@thatstheway2429]

@@coffeeandjelly4614well said. Something else just occurred to me. She mentions that the Aerith date is interrupted by Zack. What happens right before Cloud and Tifa kiss in the gold saucer date? Cloud literally asks about Aerith, and there’s a cutscene with Tifa talking to Aerith about Zack. 😂

[@NikholaRichter]

Those are all great points!

[@oskamunda]

I think the way to include aerith in the reclamation of cloud's memories is to include zack's memories of his romance with aerith as though they were cloud's (have zack retelling his own focus memories of aerith to cloud as a shared way to ensure their time as neighbors-in-tanks); tifa knows zack, too, so knowing the OTHER things she knows, she can guide him, "no, cloud...that is ZACK'S m we memory of aerith..." This would also allow cloud to reconcile himself against how many of his feelings for aerith ARE clouded by his memories which are zack's...then he can refocus on tifa, and once he is over the trauma of it all, he and tifa can deal the deal with the bada chicka wowow under the stars.

[@oskamunda]

***endure their time

[@oskamunda]

***seal the deal

[@harry5384]

dude cloud doesn't have all of zacks memories lool you don't even understand the game. the only zack memories cloud has are zacks pov in nibelheim. Hew doesn't all of a sudden have memories of aerith LOL. he doesn't think he's literally zack.

[@empty_melodies]

Wonderful discussion

[@elfsong713]

I don't see the point in shipping, honestly. I just play the game and see how the story plays out. It's fine if people want to write their own fanfiction about who ends up with whom, but there's no point in wasting energy getting all bent out of shape because the developers didn't write the story the way they want. These people are suffering from the three D's: Denial, Delusion, and Desperation. It's possible for people to have feelings for more than one person, whether romantic or not. This story deals with grief and loss and it makes the player go through the same feelings as the characters. Some people haven't come to acceptance yet.

[@Aerithlover88]

Cloud and Aerith are the canon couple ♥️

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

Idk, if you play the Aerith route there is not a lot of Tifa going on. I do see her importance but in my playthrough she definitely wasn't the "heart" of the game.

[@JH31videos]

Are we playing the same game or are you subconsciously blocking out Tifa during the main story? Chapter 1 (prologue) - she's the tour guide Chapter 2 - early one-on-one conversation about Cloud's memories to set the tone for one of the primary focal points for the entire game Chapter 3 - Tifa's unspoken wish to check on the black robes is what splits the party up, with Barret stepping up and obliging Chapter 4 - Both Tifa and Aerith join Cloud for the parade Chapter 5 - Cloud and Tifa pair up in the second half before reuniting with Barret to fight Jenova, with Sephiroth there to continue sowing doubt in Cloud's mind regarding Tifa Chapter 6 - Tifa and Aerith go on a swimsuit exchange date Chapter 7 - Cloud, Aerith, and Red team up while Barret, Tifa, and Yuffie scout ahead. Tifa is the one who gets Barret to open up about his past Chapter 8 - Gold Saucer shenanigans, player choice dependent Chapter 9 - Literally a Tifa chapter; her lifestream sequence, Cloud opening up to her in private Chapter 10 - Tifa gets trolled by Bugenhagen and gets sent to therapy, to which Aerith kindly volunteers to accompany her. Aerith gets her great bonfire scene, but this is Red's chapter Chapter 11 - First half, Yuffie thirdwheels Cloud and Tifa. Second half, Aerith and Barret watch the Cait nonsense before Vincent steals the show Chapter 12 - Gold Saucer shenanigans, player choice dependent Chapter 13-14 - Aerith focused, Cloud breakdown and tragedy marathon

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

Yeah you pointed out the Tifa interactions. There are a lot of interactions with Barret too, that doesn't make him the heart of the game. My point is, it is the player's choice who to lay the emphasis on and it's pretty cool that in this game the players have that choice. This podcast was heavily one sided and it's ok to highlight the meaning of Tifa for this story. But you could do the same thing with other characters too.

[@TigerBlood13]

@@BlackMetal-uv6qmpretty sure Seal said at the beginning that this was a Tifa focused podcast that was part of series and he will be doing other characters. If you don’t like Tifa and you chose to come here anyway that sounds like a personal problem.

[@BlackMetal-uv6qm]

@@TigerBlood13 I missed the part where he said that he is gonna be doing this with other characters too. In this case I have to apologize. An no, I don't have personal issues with Tifa she plays a central role in this game. I just thought that calling her the "heart" of the story was maybe a little exaggerated, because that always depends on the player's perspective aswell and how he or she chooses to play the game. That's all. By no means am I here to smear Tifa's character.

[@echoozz]

Well Tifa can be seen as the “heart” of the game considering she is present in all the games and the role she plays in them. I mean the whole FF7 would not happen if not for Tifa anyway 🤷‍♀️

[@huakarafiro]

Okay so hear me out. Scarlett in a mech, perhaps even a variant of the proudclod, vs.... tifa.... In sapphire weapon.

[@ff8masterc]

I hope part 3 just puts Cloud with a 3rd person a la EVA just to see both sides meltdown.

[@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft]

is tifa going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3

[@TonyKanameKuran]

Stay tuned... it will happen!

[@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft]

@@TonyKanameKuran ok and why is tifa not saying anything to cloud at all at the end of rebirth?

[@ShilohLux.13]

@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft She just lost a very close friend and her love interest is acting completely bonkers. I’ve played OG and this is lining up perfectly for part 3.

[@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft]

@@ShilohLux.13 so do you agree that tifa is going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3 or do you think she will break her promise to him?

[@ShilohLux.13]

@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft If part 3 follows canon from the OG then yes she will save him. The devs could change things, but honestly 90%-95% of the story has stuck to the OG.

[@GrandStyles]

Ngl I’m VERY onboard for Tifa Mech VS Scarlet Mech 😂

[@FLC2311]

"fictionalization devalues art" - 💯

[@finleymorris04]

Quite frankly I’m not going to watch a 2hr video, but any chance of me watching it was firmly flushed down the drain by the comments. There’s so much outright denial, cognitive dissonance and false information to try to push down Clerith that I can’t see how the video would be any different

[@93BossRoss]

The :50 - 1:30 ish mark was tiring. It's surprising how many people still reject the idea that you can love more than one person. Polyamory aside, you can't remove feelings about someone else just because you are with someone else. I truly for a while thought the they were going to go a different route, with the three of them sharing romantic feelings. Kinda bummed they didn't do that, but hey. And like, I feel like seal was trying to have a comletely different conversation from where themonk kept going. Like the points were being missed!

[@Batman_456]

Cloud is “Zack-Cloud” he isn’t even his real self, he loves Aerith but clearly not in love with her, it’s said in the game remake, your feelings are not real

[@HeatherNoone]

❤❤❤

[@DutchDread]

I don't think lockhart comes from love lock. I think it's a reference to Clouds feelings "locked deep inside his heart".

[@thatstheway2429]

New theory: shippers are simply puppets of Sephiroth.

[@oskamunda]

***endure their time

[@mexmexican8619]

I’d say get Briana White on here just for the fact she gets legit mad when fans call her Aerith

[@Lullaby28]

TifaTheMonk? Really? Who's next, SilverWield?

[@TigerBlood13]

Really? Dictating who BabySeal decides to interview? Isn’t it his channel and his choice?

[@Lullaby28]

@@TigerBlood13 of course, giving a platform to rabid shippers it's always a choice.

[@EmeraldAerith]

​@@TigerBlood13and we have the choice to criticize his choices.

[@TigerBlood13]

@@Lullaby28and yet you came to this video to complain rather than just passing on this video. That seems to be a bit rabid behavior as well.

[@TigerBlood13]

@@EmeraldAerithyou must be fun at parties

[@Thereasonableclerith]

No.

[@brieezy.]

Is Tifa the crux? If by that you mean, the Biggest distraction in Final Fantasy ever I would say yes 100% she’s not anything special not anymore than Aerith, say that she is the lesser heroine because Aerith definitely has more steaks in this game. Tifa survives so she might be the pivot point of the next game. Sounds like you’re jumping the gun a bit Tifa has been a pain in the ass for me since I was just getting into gaming - the only positive thing I will ever say about her is that she is good at keeping cloud in check and she definitely has some cool gloves and shoes I would not be surprised if she was so popular because of her name❤ I know that’s not the reason but personally I think her name is the cutest thing about her 😂😂😂😂

[@TifaTheMonk]

That’s gotta be one of the saltiest things I’ve read in a minute. You say you can’t find any appreciation for Tifa outside of her name and you view her to be a “pain in the ass” That’s a curious opinion to have about a heroine, especially one as sweet and selfless as Tifa. Even more curious that you decided to hang around a podcast dedicated to her. It’s a bit odd.

[@brieezy.]

@@TifaTheMonk well I do like to hear other peoples opinions on characters and there are things I can’t deny that I have observed. She’s a lovely character. I mean, the biggest thing I don’t like about her in this remake is the directions. Her character is so standoffish towards the truth? I get that she was trying to not be demeaning towards cloud because he was in such a fragile state of mind, all those things that he said to her throughout this game even though he apologized, probably hit her hard and he’s been acting funny and violently - and still, she hasn’t said anything to him about it-if she doesn’t go off on him in part three like she did an advent children, I am going to be very disappointed, but if she does slap him around a little now that her best friend is gone.. that would be amazing, right now I’m just enjoying the fact that Cloud is totally broken and hallucinating I wish I did not dislike Tifa for the past 20 years, I know she’s a good character but she’s also the first character that people rave about nonstop like almost in my ear ever since I started gaming and that’s probably why I really put effort into hating her🤣🤣🤣 I don’t really want to, but she is kind of mid to me, definitely not as perfect or beautiful as people swear to the goddess that she is🙄

[@ThePrince7711]

@@brieezy. I think we tend to love perfect characters more and I can see where you come from with the pressure of people talking about her all the time, but don't hate a character for her flaws, that's what makes the development of a character good later in the game, in my POV she was also kinda lost in how to help him because of all that happened, that's why she stays by his side, also she did try to ask him what was he doing back in kalm but he keeps blocking all the true memory talk he has with her, like being 7 years and not 5. We can say the same with Aerith in this remake, part1 she knew everything and kept quiet about it, in rebirth tifa tells her about not remembering Cloud being in Nibelh but she also doesnt say anything (Same with Zack part), i think they are trying to protect him and finding a way little by little to deal with it, they also know sephiroth is involved somehow. I love both characters and can't hate them for having flaws, especially Cloud most of it, but you can't hate him. Just try to enjoy them while we can, and don't listen to what people say about any of them. Like Aerith said, this is also to save him😄

[@xxxxxx-cz1yo]

Slap fight being not 🚫 for today's time , that's the feminist in her saying this.

[@productjoe4069]

I feel there is a lot of polyamory subtext (and some text) in Rebirth. I’d like to see Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, *and* Zack getting together. I just want the best for my demi-pan thunder twink.