Is TKD wimpier than Boxing?

Q&A

[@patrickstewart3446]

This reminds me of Matt Easton's critique of Modern Fencing and how the modern rules make the sport look ridiculous.

[@tashikrtv6878]

Please send a link, please. I'll be grateful

[@CrowColdblade]

@@tashikrtv6878 kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHmbkqiMp75_aa8

[@mrmoth26]

He's bald like Ramsey.

[@shitmemedankpost5926]

This is what happened to fencing.

[@eoagr1780]

shitmeme dankpost tell about it. I hate the suicidal lunge every saber fencer does, saber fencing feels more like racing than actual fencing. It’s fun to do as a sport though.

[@robkphoto5530]

@@eoagr1780 I don't even get it tbh, it's so far removed from what it is trying to imitate that it shouldn't even be called fencing at this point lol.

[@johanjonsson6504]

Try HEMA it is more tough and includes wrestling

[@anonymousinternetuserfawke3295]

I would like to try some “legitimate” HEMA, by which I mean something with some consensus as to how bouts are structured and contests declared. Anything I’ve ever heard of HEMA outside of the internet has usually been from sloppy, usually new or lukewarm fencers, they don’t provide much detail about it beyond how cool they think it is, and their biggest gripe is usually how they don’t understand or like right of way. I know some such organization/organizations exist because I’ve seen clips of events that are held, but I’m not sure which ones would be closest or worth the effort here in my neck of the woods in the U.S.

[@anonymousinternetuserfawke3295]

I understand where some people are coming from when they talk about HEMA being “tougher” than fencing, but I think that dimension of comparison misses the point of what fencing develops as a discipline. I’ve fenced for around 14 years, and have picked up kendo for the past three, and I can appreciate that certain approaches to making a discipline out of a duel can be more or less appealing, at the end of the day certain concessions are going to have to be made with any system of fencing (or grappling or martial arts in general), HEMA included. The vast majority of the principles and skills in fencing are transferable between disciplines, things like distance, tempo, timing, and pressure. Being tough in a physically taxing sense and being tough in a skill developing sense aren’t the same thing, and a person can spend a lifetime developing their skills in fencing or kendo. Even though I don’t subscribe to this kind of reasoning and know it isn’t true, I could level a similar kind of criticism towards HEMA and say don’t do HEMA, it’s a reconstructed art with lots of conjecture and is basically just less technical fencing that mostly ends up on the ground anyway.

[@tye3ow]

as far as tkd players playing it safe, thats become an epidemic in tkd. however, theres a guy who fights from turkey who still plays it oldschool instead of point fighting from a distance. check him out, servet tazegul. he wins most matches from several points behind

[@AIlSystemsGo]

God I love watching his fights

[@therealjesus1317]

I’ll check it out

[@konpoy]

Yeah but got destroyed in k1.

[@toonpics7497]

Scott Adkins is a really good example of a muscular TKD artist.

[@pholzman2918]

My Son's first martial arts instructor was a one time coach for the Korean TKD team who had a cauliflower ear because he started as a boxer. He taught a "light contact" sport TKD because many parents didn't want their kids to get beat up in class. The DoJo rumor was that he stopped sparing because most of his fights didn't last long and he ended them with one or two solid body shots. TKD, as taught in my state, didn't include training to absorb punishment.

[@varanid9]

Where most people talk crap like "this doesn't work" or "that's superior", etc. I love the way you analyze every detail from all angles and carefully lay out your conclusions from a position of experience in a variety of martial encounters.

[@taekwondobro]

The rules of taekwondo are arcane and it is the rules that really held the art back

[@jeffreylook9849]

What kind of athletic build are we referring to? Each athletic sport requires a different set of strength and endurance training in general. Kind of like how you improve your kicking power...which kick and where is it landing.

[@nickturner9476]

Good analysis. I did both martial arts as well as others and agree with your breakdown. I've noticed similarities with bjj now. I train at 10th planet and they started doing a lot more combat jiu-jitsu; now it's totally changing the game and approach to it, making it far more realistic (obviously the same could be said with bjj in an MMA application). The rules set the standard of approach and strategy, not just for martial arts but all things in life, business, war, love, taxes, etc.

[@andreasreinhardt5992]

guys in MT in thailand are not that big, but they are stonger than they look

[@robkphoto5530]

Idk the ones I have seen are relatively muscular, just not bulky and they have extremely well defined muscles (low body fat)

[@varanid9]

They are small guys because Thais are smaller people in general, but, the MT fighters aren't usually skinny ninnies, either.

[@zip34ut]

They're usually on the shorter side (meaning 5'9 and below) but they are pretty muscular for the most part

[@7dayspking]

You're talking about low weight classes, boxers in the lower weight classes also aren't big either...that's the point of lower weight classes. Heavyweight thai fighters are big though. The heavyweights are definitely stronger than the 'not that big' lightweights even in thai boxing.

[@JerryWDaviscom]

Bruce Lee could take a 75 pound barbell, hold it in two hands up to his chin, and slowly extend his hands and that barbell straight out from his body, to full arm extension, and hold it. That is major freaking strength. I can't do it, and I'm much larger than than he was and I am well muscled.

[@dyowzhars9400]

The first question has such an obvious response I'm surprised anyone even has to asked. Yes, weight slows you down. Which doesn't mean heavy people can't be agile, but it's going to cost them much more effort than it would if they weight 40 pounds less. Best example I can give: search olympic athletics champions and take a look to their bodies in each category. Guys who run marathons will never look the same than the guys who run 100 metres, because each body is better suited for a different activity. The shape of a bodybuilder would be awful at mountain climbing. The body of a hammer thrower is not as efficient in gymnastics as it is at hammer throw - obviously. A taekwondoin and a boxer have usually different body shapes for the same reason. It's a popular concept to associate the idea of being "fit" with the muscles of a bodybuilder. And it's also completely wrong.

[@mrknarf4438]

As an amateur bodybuilder and someone studying to become a personal trainer: yeah. We also tend to think Bodybuilders are very strong, but their focus isn't on strength: it's on mass. Not to say they are weak, but they don't work out specifically to lift more weight, they work out to look bigger and more aesthetic. Strongmen are the ones who truly lift heavy. We also think someone with a bodybuilder's physique is fit and healthy. Not always. Training volume instead of cardio makes the heart become bigger towards the inside, having to pump more blood into more tissue. Not many pro bodybuilders live to their 80s, let's leave it at that. Different activities optimize certain muscles, martial arts are closer to a cardio activity, you never add weight to your legs and train for hours at a time, making it very hard to eat enough to let your muscles grow. You also trading three, four times a week if not daily, again stunting your muscles' growth.

[@edrichlouw1790]

The less obtainable and more visual the more profitable. There’s a reason adds are done with bodybuilders instead of athletes. There are some brands that use athletes but only because of the value thier name carries.

[@lazur1]

The premier exponent of TKD, the late Master Han Cha Kyo, didn't have the genetics for huge muscles, but his strength training was brutal, & his strength was legendary.

[@Ash-cq6bh]

In my taekwondo club we are encouraged to "get stuck in" and use both kicks and punches and the winner is judged by who was the more effective fighter not points

[@kelelwhite64]

ITf or ATA

[@Ash-cq6bh]

@@kelelwhite64 ITF

[@kelelwhite64]

@@Ash-cq6bh luckily ITF hasn't had too many changes with its sparring im a WTF 3rd dan and luckily for me my grandmaster is a bit old school with sparring so we still retain the power and speed but don't get me wrong the point style can be tricky at times

[@kelelwhite64]

@@Ash-cq6bh I personally don't care for the point style as much tho

[@bonsaiviking]

Goodhart's law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. If you find any criterion that distinguishes good fighters and then try to score fighters on that criterion, you will create or attract bad fighters who nonetheless score highly on that criterion.

[@7dayspking]

If the measure is winning fights by enduring or finishing opponents, I think you're going to attract good fighters. Good fighters tend to win fights.

[@davidpeters6743]

@@7dayspking Except then you just attract fighters whose promoters and managers find them easier fights. Which is already a problem.

[@EVENINGWOLF666]

This has been my experience with TKD. From what I have seen there are Basically two Tae Kwon Do's. There is one that is trained with Practicality in mind. They don't compete in a lot of tournaments but tend to gravitate toward the idea that TKD, like other martial arts is intended to be used and they train with that in mind. The second it what those in mu circle have jokingly referred to as "take your dough" in that you only train for tournaments, you can't hit very hard and all strikes are only for points. Also in that second TKD practical application is almost never discussed or when it is it is brushed off with comments like "that would get you disqualified in a tournament" or "well, we only do tournament fighting here" things like that. And for those that want to do tournament fighting that's great, but for that that want to learn how to use the techniques for their intended practical applications, it leaves them out in the cold, especially as in some areas there just aren't any schools that teach the practical end of the style. I have seen far too many people that have trained, not only in TKD but in other styles that trained either solely or at least mostly for tournaments and when unavoidable situations came up where they needed to be able to use their skills, they couldn't.

[@nimbusxd91]

Taekwando is useful there is this kid at my muay thai gym main background in taekwando his kicks n accuracy is off the charts n he can box well to

[@konpoy]

Yeah because his base (boxing and muay Thai) is there. TKD in this case is like that icing on the cake. Problem is if you take out the base given real full contact situation the building will collapse. Just like Zambidis throwing superman punches and landing them... The only reason they land and are effective is because he perfected the base.

[@Kwankrang]

@@konpoy wait what? Didn't this guy say the kid's main background was TKD?

[@konpoy]

@@Kwankrang most likely that was what he did before starting full contact ring fighting type training . but full contact ring type training requires full contact type base. so his base is full contact, right? meaning muay thai and boxing. otherwise he could not effectively do ring fighting.

[@Kwankrang]

@@konpoy oh, then yeah that makes sense. Taekwondo really needs to adopt a more damage oriented mindset.

[@konpoy]

@@Kwankrang full contact is not (necessarily) harder but also more frequent type contact. its also about change/variation in distancing.

[@kurtbagnell6051]

TKD hasn't been any good in over a decade..electronic scoring ruined the sport ..but corrupt judges were the reason they went that way so they only have themselves to blame... On the bright side as TKD has gotten worse, kicking in MMA has improved by leaps and bounds and the old TKD shit I used to love is creeping its way into MMA....last Sat night some guy named o'Malley round kicked his opponent on one side of the head..switched his feet and spin hook kicked him on the other side of his head with the same foot...true story ... all they do in tkd now is hop on one leg and flick the other.....

[@theoneanton]

Kurt Bagnell As soon as the objective becomes point scoring, and not being effective at combat in the complete sense, then it becomes pointless (pun intended)

[@kurtbagnell6051]

theoneanton Agreed but unless its too the death your going to require some rules... What people don't realise is that its the rules that determine what these styles end up becoming..more so than the name of the martial art

[@troybaker3556]

Heads up. There were recent rule changes for wt tkd. Hopefully less foot fencing soon

[@ReivasMC]

so true

[@johnwotek3816]

Yeah, as an actual TKD referee, i confirm: electronic are shit. There is always system failure, problem and some good kick don't mark because the captor aren't placed exactly how it should. I've also seen kid competition at national level having the electronic plastron being set for the kickpower of adult, which led to the only time in my life i had to do Oo Se Kiro procedure. There is also a reccurent problem: rule are changing regulary (or at least in my country). Point chart change, head kicking will come and go from years to years within some age category, fault system change... there was even a time when they stopped kid to be kick in the head smething like three week before a national cup. However, that part of taekwondo is not all of this martial-art. I also do a bit of MMA on the side and my kick really save me when i'm facing some fighter more focused on boxing. Great to keep distance and surprise them. There is also other type of taekwondo fighting, like the ITF style.

[@liberals411]

RD love your channel, you break down everything in a very digestible way for those who may not be knowledgeable in many aspects of combat sports.

[@vossburton3437]

Personally, I think point fighting is really what brought TKD down. It happened with Karate too.

[@thecelticmagician8421]

Simple. You don't play boxing. Great video man

[@AGNOSTIC_incomprehensibleXIV]

@The Celtic Magician *'Undisputed'* (2002) Starring: Wesley Snipes (Monroe Hutchen) Ving Rhames (George Chambers) and Master P as Gat Boys Rapper 1

[@ashleydixon5050]

My son started taekwondo a little over a year ago. He is long and lanky but little man is strong!!!! He’s only six so he’s not ripped. His school teaches taekwondo but they also incorporate judo. I know like .0002 of anything about the sport but his school allows full on contact and the padded turtle. I reckon it depends on the student. I personally think it’s beauty but there are times it looks a lot like military ballet at the same time. Lol. I’m just supporting what my kiddo wants, I’m glad it’s not video games and tv. He’s learning discipline and self control and getting a pretty intense workout.

[@gronkgrunk]

Hmm, great explanation on this subject. Gave me new insight as a fan of combat sports & martial arts. Thank you Sifu Ramsey! 🙏

[@spectre9065]

Because Taekwondo (WTF not ITF) sparring gives the competitors armor, so speed and technique are paramount whereas amateur boxing only grants protective equipment to the head, groin, and hands.

[@mrmoth26]

*WTF*

[@joshpck]

Hi Dewey! Been watching your videos for basically a decade now. I'm TKD guy, too. Rules are updated every year. Nowadays they use e-hogus and the point system is different.

[@davidkwong3465]

Taekwondo is just a style just like boxing but in taekwondo you have olympic style where because of the rules punching is almost worthless because you can't hit to the face. So upper body training isn't as much as agility training. But real taekwondo is more karate where you are free to train upper body.

[@tonybuk70]

very interesting analysis, thought provoking... thanks

[@mathiasriedel2111]

Nicely put. Only that a fight is always a "game". Only that the ruleset is simply to win instead of scoring points.

[@orenmontgomery8250]

Our instructor was most concerned with techniques but encouraged sparring too. He said it was useful in learning what actually works to an extent, how to distance and time kicks properly, how to get them to position themselves how you want to set them up, but he always reminded us that sparring is essentially a "game of tag, not a fight." The point was to tag their chest gear with your foot and you may have to yell loudly to let the judges know you even hit (since a tap is all you really needed). I probably saw a KO once or twice per tournament (almost always a backspin they didn't see coming) but that usually meant about 250 matches happened with people just going until time ran out.

[@peterfields2179]

We had an amateur bodybuilder join our ITF Taekwondo school. He used to box a little bit but had basically no martial arts experience. He's too short, stiff, and slow to compete with any of the decent taekwondo fighters there. We spar pretty hard sometimes, and when we do he tends to get dropped. He would do a lot better at boxing, he's got a decent build for it. The problem is that adding kicks makes it really tough for him to keep up. IMO most people are going to gravitate towards what you're good at, and the attributes taekwondo works well with don't really pull in a lot of bodybuilders.

[@saintsfps5348]

Yeah but you aren't punching to the head there, so...... add that in and you'll probably lose....

[@PONYBOYonline]

You have it backwards....boxers aren’t more jacked because boxing lures in “body builders”.....boxers are more jacked because that’s what the sport turns its athletes into

[@BreakTheYagura]

@@saintsfps5348 old comments, but just for info: he said they train "ITF" taekwon-do - punching the head is allowed in ITF rules and is done quite often (blitzing, like in point-fighting styles, is more common than 'normal' punching though.)

[@kylemiles7484]

I think that there's a poorly thought out generalization that because you can win a Taekwondo match on points that fighters don't hit hard. I've never had anyone encourage hitting only hard enough to score. In 2019 two fights in my division at nationals were finished by tko from back kicks. And now that clinching doesn't get separated you can do so much more to counter front leg fencing.

[@kermit1211]

Sadly the clinching changed again this year and now the leg fencers gonna have an advantage

[@edrichlouw1790]

Do you think you could do a video going more into what it means to be a good athlete? I’m still having trouble grasping the concept. If I train sprints and 400’s outside training Taekwondo and do weights am I a good athlete or do you mean you should be more specific in the type of training you do, meaning oriented towards your MA style?

[@RamseyDewey]

That’s a great idea.

[@winfehler]

I was just about to ask the same question as you did (in reference to “MA’s being terrible athletes”)

[@ibliskhan2527]

I liked what joe rogan said about tdk his coach was a korean general and he said that his coach hates the point system/sport tdk and he trained his students old school way. I need a coach like that if I ever did tdk

[@Deyone_Jackson]

Michael Jai White and Scott Adkins for example are pretty big and muscular too and they also did Tae Kwon Do etc. and are very good fighters :p

[@looperradical2689]

Deyone Jackson They are Hollywood Choreographers. Not pro Fighters.

[@2bebothered]

@@looperradical2689 they are martial artist before actors. They trained and did tournaments before acting dont disrespect their hard work.

[@borederthanu]

Ramsey, one of my senseis told me about this difference between the hand over fist salute. He said that with the hand open touching the fist (like the one you do as you introduce yourself) is a more offensive or aggressive gesture and the hand covering and wrapping over the fist is more of you controlling your power. Im paraphrasing but can you let me know the difference, if there is one?

[@jonathan2847]

I mean in TKD ITF style you have punching to the head, in my comps I've seen a lot of people collapse due to heavy sidekicks to the liver, a couple with punchs to the head.

[@ThePaavithiran]

Exactly that my short name. Thx man really appreciate

[@astrol4b]

I'm starting to be addicted to your video. it's true that now both amateur and pro boxing are scored on punch landed, but they count effective punches only so the game of tag is kind of limited by the fact that effective punches hurts anyway, I think a big difference in the rules that make pro boxing very gore is that a knock down awards you a point and most likely will award you a round that you would have lost, if the match is close enough, this will be a good edge in the scoring cards, most probably enough to win the match. Regarding the clinch I actually prefere a clean boxing without clinching (meaning hugging and blocking the arms, not close quarter boxing) unfortunately in pro boxing they only separate the boxers, but I'm pretty sure it's a foul by the rules, but I've never saw give that penality in pro, only in amateur.

[@The31st]

i definitely think the tournament structure of tkd competition plays a part in the lack of knock outs, you cant go all out in the first fight trying to knock the guy out if youll have 4/5 more later that day and kicking people takes alot of energy

[@spike5336]

Speaking on personal experience. I was becoming a body builder and actually took my black belt test when I was really big and bulky. It just doesn't mix well. Taekwondo focuses on being skinny and thin. Aerobatics flexibility and high jumps. Still dueable as a body builder but it's a lot harder and it slows you down quite a lot. Another thing to keep in mind is the amount of conditioning and cardio taekwondo does is easier for a skinny or thin person. The more you can stretch the higher you can get and muscle can get in the way of that. I'm not an expert or anything but thats my own experience with the two mixing. Also Ramsey gives great advice but you gotta admit theres a lot of knock outs in taekwondo competitions

[@jaybee7271]

That's BS,literally any other martial art than TKD requires more cardio and conditioning(maybe with exception of BJJ). Look at Cro Cop,he had no problem kicking people's heads off at 100+ kg. It's just that people doing TMA are usually wimps.

[@spike5336]

@@jaybee7271 Actually I started doing bjj after I received my black belt in tkd and I was way more conditioned than a lot of them. Obviously I still got my ass kicked in BJJ but I wasn't huffing and puffing. As a matter of fact i was more flexible than the average person there and it took a little more pressure to tap me.

[@luongthanh105]

@@spike5336 i am a bodybuilder who switch to martial art too. Large muscle cost more energy. Bodybuilder is slow not because of having big muscle, body builders don’t train for fast and explosive movement.

[@screamfingers]

I'm no expert but I was thinking about getting a heavy skipping rope like the thai fighters use. The attributes you describe at 12:20 or so to be a good fighter it sounds like it would improve them all somewhat.

[@nozomusuzuki7916]

Heavy weight TKD fighters are pretty big. You should see full contact TKD sparring.

[@RamseyDewey]

See it? I did it for a decade

[@blitzthekraken9832]

A lot of TKD players in the old days actually had more of an UFC physic because they taught power for knockouts. When TKD started the Olympics, power wasn't necessarily needed anymore. It became a very good tag style game. Points on the scoreboard were more important. Points required reflexes and agility, not power. Boxing on the other hand, likes to knock out power at the professional level. If you notice, at the amateur level in Olympics boxers aren't very big because it is still a points-based level. Once they hit the pro level, Boxers put on muscle because knocking out opponents pays. Loma is a good example, he was a reasonable size in the Olympics, but once he went professional he put on more muscle. If you could only win fights, by knocking out opponents, you put on muscle and have incredible cardio. -- Thai Fighters put on muscle -- because they want to knock you out. but don't have great flexibility and agility... Example: "White Lotus" However, what TKD does teach you is how to read the opponent without taking damage (tag), boxing, on the other hand, you are taught how to read the opponent, by taking a lot of damage whether sparing or in the ring. In my opinion, study tkd to understand the opponent's movement, study boxing to understand what 100% feels like. Yoel Romero and Stephen Thompson are good examples of people who study opponents movements through TKD and Karate style point system. Stipe is a good example of someone who studied people movements through the hard knocks of boxing. One is not better then other, but both smashed together is dangerous.

[@blitzthekraken9832]

Brad Thomas I’m not saying they don’t get knocked out ever now and then I’m just saying the don’t train for power knockout. It’s like bjj, more clubs train for positional dominance then submissions to win by points. It’s why submission only is becoming more popular. It’s why, I believe combat Jiujitsu will become more popular then submission only, because heel hooking is tough to do in a real scrap, and audiences don’t understand it. Audiences tend to like knockouts and real environments. It’s just easier for the casual fan to process. It’s why boxing is still popular, everybody can swing a haymaker and pro is no headgear. I’m a strong believer in headgear, but audiences feel it’s a mature. It’s why wrestling doesn’t struggle in the olympics, they don’t wear any. It makes them look like pros. It’s a silly mentality but it’s nothing that will change.

[@therealkillerb7643]

"If it has rules, it's not a fight..." Robert A. Heinlein

[@AverageGIJoeOutdoors]

If there were no pads in ITF taekwondo there would be knockouts in the first 30 seconds of every fight the first kick that landed to the head..... some taekwondo kicks are very brutal and yes take years to perform well... but man... if a high level black belt in taekwondo kicked you in the face... its lights out buttercup...I am not saying that taekwondo is superior... no not at all... all I am saying is it has its high points and low points to discuss.... and it is not for everyone.

[@lainutsuho5422]

Well,I don't know if this is great advice or bad advice,but back when I trained karate I also had another "sport" I started to pratice. I say sport in quotes because is not really an official sport. I used to play those dance machines on arcades. Cardio,leg strengh improves a lot,my kicks got way stronger after praticing that and your foot work gets better too.

[@danielhounshell2526]

The rules are a little different to where spinning techniques score higher. A spinning kick to the body scores two points, a normal kick to the head scores three, and a spinning kick to the head scores four points. They've added sensor gloves in some competitions that make it marginally easier to score with a punch, but it's still far more difficult than scoring with a kick, since with a punch the sensors aren't all that sensitive so you still need to punch like mike tyson to score points, meanwhile you can lightly rub your foot against someone and score points for kicks. I think a big reason we see TKD fighters fight so defensively is largely due to the fact that the techniques all have long reach, and that TKD has a lot of ways to stop an opponent from moving in, on top of that, TKD fighters usually have really good footwork when moving in a straight line. All this basically means you can expend all this effort getting in, and covering distance, only to get tagged with a side kick and have the opponent backstep away before you get to do anything.

[@ryanweible9090]

its interesting because its kind of what you start for. if you started martial art for sport, you are going to learn to play the "game". i started tang soo do because some bullies beat me up and i wanted to be safer( actually i fought bullies before, but now they were getting bigger and i couldn't just win by brawling). now i learned the same techniques that the sporty guys did, but i gravitated to the defensive techniques, because i didn't care about sport, i'll play you at chess or trivial pursuit or street fighter 2 if you want to play a game. i just didn't want to get picked on. so i learned to defend myself. and i did fight a few times, and won(i also got into weight lifting and endurance workouts, so i was ready to fight), i never competed and likely wouldn't have been good at competition style but the teacher taught me how to defend myself, and thats how it went down. its your goal thats going to influence if your style will be useful in a fight, did you train to defend yourself, or win a sport? i edited, originally i said fight, and my teacher would, wisely, not teach someone who wants to fight, thats a potential criminal. i wanted defense, not offense. and never started a fight, but self defense was the goal.

[@marcgoulet1967]

thanks

[@alecj1654]

Awesome dude, I'm learning a lot from your videos. This really helps me out a lot. This huge fat out of shape guy I mentioned to you in another video who said he was a guru master told me that having muscle is nonsense, a waste of time and training, that guys with muscle mass or definition have more weak points compared to someone who's a pencil thin 100 pounder and someone who's very fat. Not sure what he meant by that but he kept going on how fat people and little skinny people can perform techniques better than those in shape with muscle cause he said muscles are easier targets. What did he mean by this?

[@bluegrassgarage]

Doing lots of kicks is a hard workout. It’s natural to be more thin in a sport like that.

[@Docinaplane]

It's not just the rules, Ramsey, it's also the rewards. There is big money in many sports and a large number of athletes can get their share compared to martial arts regardless of the small number that get it in the UFC and a few other organizations. If I had the physicality to do it, I may have done MA as a hobby, but my moneymaker would have been a major team sport.

[@thebobbytytesvarrietyhour4168]

So I think when a rule system encourages certain techniques over others it is not altogether a bad thing. I started out as an Olympic foil fencer before I got into historical rapier fencing, and the Olympic rule set forced me to develop a lunge that wins me rapier tournaments. Most people I fight have not been forced to learn to lunge with the same degree of skill, because they have so many other options under the rapier rules.

[@changyiju6619]

I mean there’s a difference between itf tkd and wtf tkd, and it seems like you’re describing more of the wtf tkd, which is more sport orientated, which is why it’s used in the olympics, compared to itf, which is that but more realistic. That being said, tkd and boxing are quite different, and definitely not complete martial arts, but what they do offer are very effective. Kicks tend to be twice as, or oven more effective/damaging than punches, so in my experience, you’re really trying to dodge being kicked in the face which proves to be quite forceful, and a bit scary. I recently found out that tkd has the most damaging kicks n comparison to other martial arts, which makes sense as it is known for the kicks.

[@ttz4m3]

Endy Kenny I practice ITF style and there is full contact sparring once you reach black belt (semi contact for coloured belts).

[@ttz4m3]

Brad Thomas even just a regular side kick to someone's knee is devasting. I have actually used this in a fight and it took the guy's mobility out an allowed me to run away.

[@JourneyToTheCage]

Javed Ahmed I heard that punches to the head are allowed in ITF TKD, is this true?

[@ttz4m3]

Suburban Slingshots yep. Punches and kicks to the front and back of the head. Punches and kicks are only to to the front of the body, above the belt. Jumping punches and kicks are allowed too.

[@gregory_sp6353]

+Javed Ahmed kicks to the sides of the body as well as kicks and punches to the side of the head are allowed as well I believe

[@viperzerofsx]

My buddy was a TKD black belt 6'5 215 not muscular at all, he fit the mold. His brother was 6'8 and a little bit more bulky, its too bad he didn't get into it.

[@eIicit]

Joaquin Buckley, the UFC middleweight, scored the knockout of the century with a taekwondo type kick. He’s a musclar dude.

[@justaregularguynamednoah1581]

Joe Rogan is awesome

[@dakotalandreth]

Noahs Combat Club Have you ever tried DMT?

[@tashikrtv6878]

Jamie, pull that up

[@furyano1251]

They have Taekwondo muscular guys. Mostly it’s better to be lighter to be faster but some bigger guys can move faster than others. I’m 190lb TKD machine. I move ok but I do a lot of leg strength therapy to help prevent knee injury.

[@Joelvel]

Agree with this.

[@benjaminpujols1914]

Yeah, I agree. I've noticed that I mean martial arts yourself is good exercise people in China years ago thousands of years ago used to do it. Keep himself in shape. They don't do heavy lifting. Some of them don't have backbreaking jobs. But when you look at a amateur or professional wrestler or fighter if it's boxing or UFC or all of them they all like you said pay attention to the physique. They eat, right? They overload their bodies to fit get stronger and bigger. So when they're in there they can manipulate the other person with a little bit more. He's Because they're not fighting somebody that is 150 lb or less. They're fighting somebody their weight or heavier, or if they're lighter. They're strong enough to handle. the heavier weight of their opponent

[@jlogan2228]

Probably bc ones points vs actual combat If all you have to do is tap the pad then you wanna be as light and agile as you can If you have to be expected to not only knock someone one out but to TAKE heavy shots to the body obviously you make your body alot stronger with more muscke

[@periodic98]

What do you think about ITF taekwondo?

[@grayman1]

what range of height and weight would tai kwon do be fit for? 170lbs? 5'10?

[@Eduplation]

I play TKD for my health and I agree with you.

[@80sOGRE]

IMO it also has a lot to do with the mainstream global popularity of a sport / art. NFL players seem so powerful and top level because they are, if they don't perform and match their peers they get dropped so the drive to be the best is not just a personal philosophy, it's a total necessity if the want to continue having a paying career. Boxing is the same in that respect, we mostly see the fights of those on top of the mountain, the best boxers. Internationally like many other traditional martial arts, TKD hasn't got that big an audience outside Korea. UFC has pretty much inherited the audiences from the old way of viewing these type competitions. Love your channel and advice dude. great breakdowns

[@aurelienyonrac]

The rules shape the art? Waw. Makes sens

[@ianng1240]

I would advise you to rewind time as for what u said its true but in the past when taekwondo is not being introduced to the Olympic s look at the difference . Now its all form but ppl dont really learn the application of it it is a brutal martial art if u really go learn the application off those forms and you can look at the body and knuckles of the traditional taekwondo fighter, alot more stronger

[@davcar23]

I'll put it like this, I have a friend who's a black belt in TKD, she has never sparred nor never been in a tournament because there's no one in her weight/age class, but she's a black belt... oh and her teen daughter made black belt when she was 10.

[@KentPetersonmoney]

I think if you mix takwonda with boxing it would be a good combination. You learn the kicks in takwonda and punches in boxing

[@mr.q337]

Its called MMA buddy. Hence the name "Mixed Martial Art" , you can mixed in what ever you want

[@davidkwong3465]

Or you could just take taekwondo for 1 week to learn kicks and then go back to boxing because the only difference is taekwondo is going to tell you to slide back when the fight is too close. So taekwondo for leg flexibility and learn 7 to 8 different kicks.

[@davidkwong3465]

Chris Oyola re-read what I said, olympic style teaches to get out. I specifically said olympic because I know there are traditional. That's fine and if you're aware of this part of TKD olymic style training sure you can ignore and box, judo, what ever but in my opinion and experience you don't need the TKD to start outside to get mid and in close. That's the bases of my comment.

[@wilhelmu]

I dont think you can learn kicks in one week, to properly learn any technique, especially kicking, you need to drill it over and over again for dozens, if not hundreds of hours

[@davidkwong3465]

NathanRomml could be true since I take taichi I already know how the body moves to generate power so that might be why it came so easy for me. But I'm also assuming if your knowledgeable enough to decide to do MMA then you probably already know something.

[@frankacuso]

The keyword here is practice in "actual fighting". Boxing and judo/jijitsu/wrestling are actually doing the contact sport "regularly". Traditional martial arts are mostly exercise and kata. They might not even join a sparring session during their whole stay in that martial art. I believe traditional martial arts can compete with any fight style if they spar as regularly as boxers.

[@danielhounshell2526]

A lot of the time we'll see professional fighters have relatively slim, well muscled builds. I don't really think packing on size like a body builder is ideal, the extra mass doesn't really slow you down necessarily, but moving all that bulk around does take a lot of energy, and a lot of people with huge, bulky builds tend to gas out a lot faster. A lean, well balanced physique is, in my opinion, what is best for a fighter.

[@RamseyDewey]

The fastest guy I ever trained with was also the biggest- a former football player. Muscle size is not what determines speed. It’s how you train those muscles to move. Look up some videos of professional American football players training on agility ladders. Watch how quickly those guys can change direction while sprinting at full speed, and notice how good their fine motor movement and hand eye coordination is when catching a ball flying through air from 20 yards away or more while sprinting full speed. Those guys are HUGE, and they are way faster than the average combat sports athlete.

[@danielhounshell2526]

@@RamseyDewey I don't doubt that big people can be fast if they train the right way, my concern is over stamina and endurance. Most of the sports where we see enormous people with bodybuilder physiques tend to be sports where endurance doesn't play a huge role the way it does for fighting.

[@garynaccarto8636]

As far as effectiveness goes two problems with Tae Kwon Do is that Tae kwon do focuses on mainly kicking and nothing else but also top of that theres a large range of useless rule that encourages someone to narrow there techiques down to the ones that are the most unreliable.

[@optumuscum9981]

The style of Ted The style of tkd I use can punch to the face. They can also round kick bellow the belt. But you have to be blue and above to do it. And 14 or older I guess

[@lazur1]

Athletes who make a good living at their sport, or have hopes do to do, spend all of their time doing whatever they have to do to succeed. How much time can a TKD fighter spend training?

[@ChrisCapoccia]

gaming the rules, yes like in MMA counting a hand on the mat as a "downed opponent"

[@danthekong]

Coz tkd emphasize on kicks and its point fighting hence it is all about speed and techniques not ko power. If instead of point fighting, it is a fight till knock out then the exponents will pack more size.

[@Sandlin22]

Takes alot more energy to throw a kick vs a punch. I think that's why we don't see a lot of heavy muscled Tkd guys. Throw 10 punches at a bag vs 10 high kicks.

[@dyowzhars9400]

Seriously? It's the other way around. Punch a bag twenty times in twenty seconds. And then try to see if you can land even ten kicks in ten seconds. A kick is significantly more tiring than a punch.

[@fourhorsemenmechanix757]

@@dyowzhars9400 That is literally what the other person said.

[@mpg3946]

Dewey is talking about WTF Taekwondo no ITF. In ITF there is punching to the head and there aren't extra points for flying techniques. But like WTF there is no elbows or knees in sparring (though these techniques will be drilled and used in power breaking techniques).

[@gregd806]

I don’t want a game, i want a fight.. and I don’t just want a fight, I want a war.

[@mauronoeldeleon5841]

I have been watching some of your videos and they have been very informative to what others tend to see about taekwondo from the outside. I have to say that I respectfully disagree with your assessment because I think you are missing some key info about how much taekwondo has changed overtime, likely because, as you personally mentioned, you haven't been in the tkd relm for a while. If we should compare boxing to taekwondo (apples to apples if you will) to each other the competitive sense, it should be noted that boxing has been around since almost forever while taekwondo only became somewhat of a global sensation since the '80s or so (old school). You should compare old school tkd to old school boxing and modern tkd to modern boxing to create a fairer assessment. Old school boxing was vicious, brutal, and lasted forever. Old school tkd, during Joe Rogan's time, was also vicious, brutal and lasted for ever. I'm both, people got knocked out regularly; it was a result that was generally expected and accepted as the norm for both. Debatebly, it could have been quicker or worse in old school tkd because back then the knockouts would happen within 3 rounds due to trembling shock impact as opposed to old school boxing that could drag out longer. Basically, what I'm saying is that old school boxing and tkd were virtually the same in their respective senses. How their sports organizations tried to evolve their sports is what made the very different beasts that the are in the modern day. Like you said with boxing, it's changed a bit today because of the rules, but I don't recall you ever mentioning the fact that that's why tkd has changed as well. Here's the difference from there: Boxing went the route the focused less on metric point system to relinquish bias and focused on a more ambiguous judging system that if arguably more corruptable. Tkd rules in the opposite direction where they focused on removing power from the judges and letting electronic take dictate unbiased point counting that, although less biased and harder to corrupt, is simply not as interesting. That direction in both sports is why I believe both are so different from one another now. You seem to talk about tkd as if the game has not changed that much since you've been out but its changed over and over again to reduce corruption. I should note that Joe Rogan is an old school/trembling shock era tkd fighter which is why he probably is so built.

[@Madkendler]

The point system you're talking about is WTF. ITF is a lot more free, where any hit landed in any way, and anywhere is one point, so you see a lot more punches there.

[@abd.tjuliano5829]

Old taekwondo is harder than nowaday touchkwondo

[@davidbarnwellutech4663]

Tkd players typically aren't wearing shorts. So there's one reason you don't see those muscles. There's also the thing that kicking, especially jumping and kicking might require a different power/weight ratio than boxing. ITF Tkd, for instance, (1 point for a punch, anywhere, punches to the head are allowed, 2 points for kick to the body, 3 points for kicks to the head) is a light contact sport because it is a POLITICAL sport! Players (kids and adults ) aren't making money off the sport. No one wants to be the one to tell a parent or a spouse that their beloved person died over a plastic trophy. So.. judges don't allow follow through in any of the strikes (judging is very subjective)..in an effort to prevent the striking getting out of hand. It's weird (people still get knocked out, of course, because they ARE getting hit) but that's how the sport is organised.

[@maxkim7937]

imagine a fighting game that used this system... would the health bar be removed?

[@konpoy]

That what you call 'touching' in boxing turns into some potential damage if mma or no gloves are given. Proper boxing 'touching' for the most part involves a rapid weight shift from one foot to the other like a water pump. So that 'touching' creates vibration that does damage on the inside more so than outside. Plus there is frequency of 'touching' involved by which damage could be inhanced. So this comparison i find a bit invalid.

[@gingercore69]

Great video! Btw, do you think boxing would bennefit from some changes in the rules. Like, wearing mma gloves, allowing spinning backfists, etc? I practice boxing, and i find the gloves make it too unrealistic... No one has hands that big, its way harder to parry or block without those gloves... And its way easier to sneak a punch between the guard without gloves...

[@andymc1579]

gingercore69 interesting question. In relation to spinning back fists in a sport that only uses fists they are pretty risky and probably would not be used in my opinion. I think the reason the work in other sports is because there is a risk of them becoming a kick or a feint to a throw. If you can only punch its way to easy to see a spinning back fist coming. Just my opinion of course.

[@gingercore69]

Andy Mc yeah, but the angle de foot goes when doing a spining kick can be upward, straight line, side to side, or descemding... Same can be done with fists... Also it alows you to use your "power hand" from the other side... It is risky, but in combinations with other punches it can be quite hard to deal with, even more against the ropes...

[@GuitarsRockForever]

Boxing with mma style glove would be a great idea, in my opinion.

[@jantawnjones]

The thing about boxing gloves and boxing is that it’s almost apart of each other there’s an art to catching a punch in the glove, defense and covering your face is different with a MMA glove instead of a boxing glove. There’s also how they wrap their hands etc.

[@Catwv1230]

The big boxing gloves aren’t even for fighter safety. They got that way so people wouldn’t break their hands as easily and impressive KOs could happen more frequently because people wouldn’t be afraid to punch to the head. MMA gloves or bare knuckle would be awesome

[@jakeman1397]

What for of TKD did you practice? I'm guessing WTF based on the rules you described?

[@RamseyDewey]

That is correct.

[@VitalityGracieGarage]

Hey man. You've got a cool personality and very sensible and practical messages. As a martial artist I'd like to be able to view more of your content, but it's hard because your videos like this one are too long, I'm too busy to invest 15 or 20 mnutes in a video even if I want to hear what you have to say about the subject at hand. You could get your point across in these talks you do in much less words, making your videos shorter, and then you'd get a lot more views in my opinion. I would watch all of your content if the videos were max 6 minutes.

[@williamoverton7775]

long long legs smal but and diminished upper body in general. my arms are strong but hard to pump up. I have oversized lungs but weaker chest and shoulders. the truth is I've had to adapt my physique to martial arts because it's built to run slowly but forever.

[@smit70NJ]

wasn't Kimo a TKD black belt? He was pretty jacked.

[@SimeonIII]

It is very simple in boxing you punch the other guy until he cant stay on his feet while in TKD you try to score more points by kicking the pads of the opponent.

[@fuckoff9182]

Noemis uhh no

[@Kuchmi123]

Hi Ramsey, ive watched your video about being robbed 6 times in your life, thus i have a question for you: how do you deal/dealt with the thought of being threatened with a gun/knife while living your everyday life? I am 20 years old, have been training in boxing since i am 14 and have started BJJ a month ago. Because of all that i have a kind of very strong self confidence and it seems to others that i am fearless, but my problem is that i actually am very afraid of being threatened with a deadly weapon and even though ill give my wallet being stabbed or shot. Especially if my girlfriend is next to me i cannot run for example. Because of this fear I am always very careful when going outside or being somewhere in the city. I always turn around and have an uncomfortable feeling as if something could happen - so my life quality is getting less...I dont even live in a dangerous environment. I live in a city with 230 000 habitants in the middle of Germany and never go through dark places in the city - but anyway: how can I deal with this fear? I feel like a pussy to be honest and cant do much about it.

[@Docinaplane]

My mantra is, "Fear is the Mindkiller." That's helped me when I needed to focus on the present danger.

[@account4345]

Kuchmi123 Don’t worry about the fear dude, it’s natural, I don’t think any regular bloke would be level headed when there’s a gun to your head. Truth is, and iv had this happen a few times (fights in high school not robberies), is that you’ll get a surge of adrenaline and you wont even be able to feel pain or fear for a good few minutes. Whether you run or fight, which either way is fine btw, nothing cowardly about running away to survive, you’ll likely not worry about it in the moment. You’ve probably had something similar in boxing but trust me, in actual situations your body normally takes over and you don’t have to focus on it. As shitty as this sounds in situations where you’re held up you should probably just cooperate, better to walk away alive with fifty less bucks in your pocket than dead and with fifty less bucks in your pocket, especially if there’s multiple people. If there’s one and you think you can take him then it’s your call, but unless you’re some John Wick ninja don’t fight two guys, and always focus on disarming him first, don’t go for a punch when he’s got the gun in his hand, get it off him first.

[@FulguroGeek]

One of the most powerfull kick i ever seen it was jo rogan that was showing Gsp a takwondo kick If you havent seen that video go chek it out was epic hehe!

[@FulguroGeek]

I wrote it before the end of the video hehe guess you saw it .

[@a.mmobile2998]

i do tkd and you only get a point if the kick is hard or the punch is hard, if you just tap or kick lightly it isnt a point, so now its power and speed

[@jaymc1987in]

Silvio simac is a good example of a muscular teakwondo practitioner.

[@MarcRitzMD]

of course it is...that is why it's full of kids and grown kids

[@TaijDevon]

There are fast muscle fibers and slow muscle fibers. Slow is stronger generally. But fast is fast. Kinetic energy is 1/2 mv squared. Which means a fast punch commits much more energy. The square of velocity is a lot of kinetic energy. Except for young George Forman. That punch is horrible dangerous. Oh and that Japanese girl Itsuki while a submission artist fires very fast. Rose is close.

[@TheMdub27]

Brilliant couldn't agree more and you managed not to bash tkd unlike everyone else

[@BT-ve5pv]

Yes

[@urmonn8162]

I find guys that can leave there legs out like spears intimidating lol

[@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935]

I guess my disagreement with this is, mma and wrestling still have a scoring system for those decision wins. granted there's no cap on the points earned, but it's still there and used. probably why some mma fights are duller than they used to be.

[@jlogan2228]

Rafael Roquemore yea when you realize you can win on points it becomes boring bc some.fighters whole strategy is to out point their opponent. You'll notice it happen alot when someone becomes champ. Jones.for ex was finishing ppl left and right then somewhere he became more focussed on points bc it's safer and you keep your belt longer

[@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935]

J Logan yeah. it's definitely one strategy. even though it's supposed to be an entertainment sport, no one really wants to get knocked out, or loose in general. And really, that what having the title is about. not loosing it. so avoiding fights, or keeping yourself out of loosing situations helps to keep the belt.