Is Warhammer 40,000 Changing Too Much

Want more Mordian Glory Content? Check out the 2nd Channel!
/ @mordianglorygames
Affiliate Links! Save money on your minitures and support the channel :D
Element Games - elementgames.c...
Use this Element Referal Code to earn DOUBLE bonus store credit when buying through element games: TIM3921
Firestorm Games (UK based Store): www.firestormg...
Noble Knight Games (US based store): www.nobleknigh...
Warlord Games Affilate Link (World Wide): r.warlordgames...
Sharpe Affiliate link (UK Based): amzn.to/3zoHLP5
Tip me here!
streamelements...
Please support this channel!
/ mordianglory
Email:
[e-mail]
I have a new Mailing address! If you want to send anything to me then please use the below address:
Name: MGTV
Address line 1: Store First
Address line 2 :Roundwood Point
Town: St Helens
Postcode: WA9 5JD
Country: United Kingdom

[@rudesthazard5769]

Rules changes are great, edition churn is what makes it all feel bad I think. Rate of the balance patches is great. I really like that they are less squeamish about changing rules that aren't working rather than only relying on points like they used to. However, the looming dread of the edition churn then resets all the growing pains of what would otherwise feel pretty good. I think editions should be extended by two or three years. That time could be filled with supplement books or reworks for codices that fell flat, crusade campaign rules, etc. The game would have time to settle and mature while the balance cycle would keep it from being static.

[@Dram1984]

I think this is a solid take. It would be easier to put up with the constant changes if we knew there would be a payoff where the game is now “fixed” and we could enjoy it for a while. Instead we get constant updates until 11e drops and it all starts over.

[@mattiasgamin3891]

This!

[@klaykid117]

Every for sale army should get a codex before a new edition OR should be the first codexes of a new edition

[@syntheticjester1162]

Editions change way too frequently OR they do not get the codex's out fast enough. If you want a 3 year life then all codex's need to be out in 1-1.5 years.

[@altulbluo404]

Good point ,i hate waiting entire edition for codex only for it to be absolute in half a year ,it feels really bad

[@TheInsatiableDrBoom]

3rd edition era was the best era. Max creativity, rules to build your regiment your chapter. The lore was wide open to be filled in but the hobby small enough to keep the tone.

[@sephrus7784]

This is 100% the reason why im building a 2nd/3rd edition army and trying to get a group going at the local gaming store. I wish we could use the local GW store but thats a big NO.

[@sonicwingnut]

I kinda thought about doing a 2nd or 3rd ed. Army. I collect Blood Angels and tbh with their refresh I can just go all-primaris for a current army, but looking at my "classic" minis I'm fairly sure I could do a pretty cool 2nd edition army that was almost entirely metal.

[@bremer1701]

well 3rd edition had their fair share of updates and erratas as well. Some people seem to forget that. There were quite regular updates delivered through white dwarfes or books like Capter Approved or Index Astartes.

[@jlpermar]

​@@bremer1701 not by a million times as much as now. And their rules does not move anymore. You can choose an army and forget about GW screwing you army with new rules and points updates. We are in our 40s and with children. We have money to buy anything we want, but we don't like to spent time relearning rules or points. My group has abandoned 10th edition recently. We don't like power level. We like points and paint our models (and we have a lot of them as we are playing since 2nd edition). We are playing 2nd 3rd (and probably 9th edition).

[@piedpiper1172]

Just run one page rules (advanced) with 40k armies. It keeps the beautiful minis and lore, but everyone can actually know the rules and what’s going on with none of the bloat. Plus, your favorite mini will never end up in legends! Best part is you can print extra copies of the rules and take them with you to the store. Any time you start to play a game, ask the person if they’re willing to try OPR and give them a copy. I had great success converting my area to OPR that way, at first most games were still 40k, but over time more and more swapped.

[@chikumori5530]

I think there are two factors hurting the game the most. The first is a focus on pushing the game more and more towards the competitive side. Balance is important, yes, but over streamlining the game cuts out all the fluffy army rules and makes the game boring. Just look at the boards as a great example of this. They are very boring. Artillery is fixed in a very boring way when they could have it both fluffy and far more balanced with more random interactions mixed in (blast templates and scatter dice would make it so artillery is not over powered yet still fluffy and fun). The second issue is that GW is far too focused on squeezing as much money out as possible for the shareholders. Having a properly balanced yet fluffy game system that can stick around for years goes against their bottom line. Shifting the meta and removing models to drive people to purchase new models, on top of having a really crappy pay for rules system, is all about extracting money. It is a focus on extracting money from meta chasing whales over appealing to the majority of the hobby.

[@pabloalonsolasagabaster658]

Yes. Although I have played 10th edition, I can not go and play a game agaisnt a random person right now . He is gonna pull up a hundred gotcha moments with rules tottally unknown to me. Last time I played a matched play, with secondaries and everything, necrons started to teleport everywere 3 inches away, with habilities I can not predict and alter the game too much. It was like playing blind folded.

[@the-old-tower]

I don't know where this idea is coming from that 40k is changing. This must be the fifth time this year that a video about the game changing has made me go and check my 3rd edition rulebook, but each time I find that all the words are still there, all in the same order on each page!

[@AndrewNarog]

Excellent commentary on Games Workshop. I think one of the things that disappointed me was how quickly 9th was retired just after they finally finished their codex releases. The repeated sending of nodels to Legends also dealt a severe blow to my enthusiasm for 40k. The incompetent communication of rules doesn't help, either.

[@alexandrudorries3307]

Personally, I agree with your points and genuinely do like the current pace (but I have “weaponized autism”). However, it is worth noting that the people who participated in said survey (300 people is a very small sample size) were drawn from a biased selection pool - i.e. the members of your competitively-oriented community who are active enough to see and participate in said survey.

[@jordanbrown4779]

As a casual player, who plays once a month here are my thoughts - Rule updates are generally easy to follow. BattleScribe or new recruit updates points and rule tweaks for me. - I follow you and auspex for fundamental rule updates. Sometimes I don’t remember things but it isn’t that big a deal. In conclusion I like the frequent updates

[@trueseeing]

I'm just tired of the entire game revolving around L-shaped ruins. Looks like garbage and the gameplay isn't much better when it's so killy.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

Competitive 40k is a cancer. It just turns tables into sporting arenas and not scenes

[@Dram1984]

Yeah, even “elite infantry” feel incredibly vulnerable. Space marines are completely detached from their lore.

[@Dram1984]

L-shaped ruins that every hero in the galaxy constantly shows up to fight over. And by fight over I mean stand next to arbitrary points on the board.

[@kevlonk]

Remember when more terrain than just ruins mattered? Remember when we had rules for things like freaking bunkers, etc?

[@AndrBR0]

Verticality is dead

[@Fromage79]

40k should change when it needs to. IMO they should balance OP and ultra weak factions ASAP.

[@stevemcstevens1279]

@@Fromage79 but most faction are around 50% win rate in tournaments right now? I haven't been in the hobby a long time, but it sounds like by numbers this is the healthiest the balance has been in years

[@Fromage79]

@@stevemcstevens1279 I was more talking about Eldar in early 10th. They should have nerfed them much faster. Also since everyone was using indexes, it would have been the best time to get into the game too. Right now, codex space marines need a good buff.

[@josephrigley8974]

@@stevemcstevens1279 the problem often is more nuanced, there are so many detachments that just never get used because theres one clear best. They need to fix the detachments too, a single usable detachment per codex is not acceptable.

[@stevemcstevens1279]

@@Fromage79 right, but something is always in need of a tweak and we are generally getting the faster, no? I feel that people are too critical of a perfect balance that is not realistic instead of appreciating the good state as a whole. Regarding the other response on few detachments being used, I also have heard of this in many factions, but wouldn't it be incredibly difficult to have all detachments balanced and the factions as a whole as well? It sounds to me like it's a good compromise to strive for faction balance against other factions than to focus on balance of detachments within a faction

[@donandresdeulloa4638]

Tourney "friends" wrecked the game. But i have to say thanks because us casual chads have moved on the Bolt Action😊

[@ronpaul5319]

I havent even bothered to learn 10th edition, why waste time learning a ruleset that changes in a week or a month? Why waste money buying books that will be obsolescent a week after purchase?

[@danielpledger7445]

If the rules were free on a well maintained and designed app it wouldn't be so bad. But having to buy books that are wrong on release and within a few passes may as well be from a previous edition feels bad. Also if they were free it would make it easy to double check your opponents not making things up without stopping the game needlessly.

[@erupendragon7376]

A good portion of people who like changes are misguided. I’m an old beard. In my group most people who want changes are new blood. The reason they want changes is they are bored.They find the game boring after just a few games. Every time the game changes it’s a race to find the most optimal possible list. They run it a few times and it’s over. Game is stale until next change. Me as old beard. I hate this new edition. Back in my day people optimized lists like now. Played the most broken thing. Everyone got a laugh and moved on. Moved on to play casual games, narrative campaigns. And also tournaments. But tournaments everyone knows what the broken things are. So it’s a fun outsmarting everyone game. It’s tailoring against the one list you know that dude will bring, and tailoring against what you think people will take to tailor against that one dude. In my opinion 40K is boring. There is no room for players to make it fun. Every fun the race re-starts.

[@Dram1984]

Same, also when we found broken stuff we generally played it a couple of times for a laugh and then just didn’t play that way anymore because it made the game less fun. We used to make fun of people that played to win at all costs, again because we recognized it made the game less fun the in the long term. I’ve been playing Napoleon’s Battles for over 30 years and it’s still a blast. I think theirs one page of errata that we remember to look at from time to time.

[@erupendragon7376]

@@Dram1984 I’m super jelly! I would love to play some napoleonics. I own 5 other wargames. I almost never get to play them. Everyone I know arround here is 40K or death.

[@sonicwingnut]

I think it's a more complicated question than simply the overall rate of change. For instance I think the rules updates are good but would be better if GW just got with the times and fully moved to online rules. I think they don't tweak weapon profiles enough which is annoying for internal balance, because they rely primarily on points instead but they removed wargear points, which makes points way less effective for balancing stuff. But one problem is they can get to a point where all the Codices are out and the game is more or less balanced... And they release a new edition. They need to get to this point where the game is basically complete, then slow down, make minor tweaks and let the game just exist for a while.

[@brickhill3025]

I'm looking forward to the next update. It's been a good long time since the last shake up. 40k is an imperfect game and will always need updates. The App was the biggest waste of time bc it wasn't maintained after the launch of the edition.

[@TheHarkonnenScum]

11th edition gets rebranded as Age of Primaris and 10 years later they'll bring back Warhammer 40k Classic.

[@DavidSmith-rb8fp]

As a “new” player (I last played in 3rd edition) it has been extremely hard to 1) learn the rules, and 2) learn current and relevant Guard tactics. The rules are changing so often it’s so hard to keep up. I constantly have to be vigilant regarding the date of KZbin videos and Reddit threads trying to remember what changed after that date and what didn’t. It’s been pretty challenging.

[@johnames9253]

You are dramatically overstating the 50/50 split. "The game changes at a rate I like" is not at all congruent "With the game needs to change more." A more accurate analysis of that poll would be that a convincing majority thinks the game changes too much but two sizable minorities disagree.

[@wyatttyson7737]

Last month my local RTT group cancelled the monthly RTT because not enough people signed up. The reason not enough people signed up is that, and I quote from the TO, “there has been no new updates, no new books, no new reveals.” This was about a week after the Imperial Agents Codex released and would have been only the 2nd RTT since the summer Dataslate. Do with that what you will.

[@Dram1984]

@@wyatttyson7737 what I take from it: the game is fundamentally boring and people only enjoy it because they can figure out new meta.

[@Gerod253]

The editions changing balluxing everything up IS part of the plan. If GW was actually interested in having a solid rule set they could have had one years ago. Instead they are more interested in causing the influx of cash that a new edition means as often as possible. If they start thinking that they can do it every two years instead of three them will absolutely do that.

[@Dram1984]

Yep. Every time GW updates cause someone to buy a new kit they count it as a win.

[@jackp492]

Depends if it’s a game or a sport, and depends on whether gw is making the same product they used to, or whether they have switched over to live service, which I think they have, constant changes lead to more engagement to keep up to date, more engagement is growth and dedicated customers

[@josephrigley8974]

The problem with change is, yes things change but the broken stuff so often isn't fixed. I want actual fixes to the game and units not hot fixes that fundamentally change the core rules and don't address the actual issue like that stupid mortal wound change at the beginning of the edition. On a personal level I'm just done with the turn based gameplay of 40K, it's slow, boring and bereft of fhe kind of tactical nuance you get in other games.

[@Sirilere]

49% is LESS than HALF... GW is going the wrong way.

[@sonicwingnut]

Also I think your sample is going to be skewed - your channel has a fair bit of content for everyone but it's very competitively focused at times so it's likely a larger proportion of your viewers are "locked in", so it makes sense your results show competitive players as less of a minority. If a successful painting channel asked the same question you'd probably get a very different answer

[@IssekOfTheJug]

Perhaps the most invested followers of a competitively focused KZbin channel that updates daily are not a representative sample in terms of how quickly they’d like the game to change?

[@sundownofsweden]

I think you are on point (hehe); alrhough you should take the numbers from the poll with a pinch of salt. The people answering the poll is probably less casual on the whole. Not everyone follows your channel, I'm afraid to say😂

[@NZNemesis]

It can be an expensive gamble to expand your army. Save up to buy a kit. Get it & 2 weeks later... Legacy. Codex creep is also a bane.

[@aronrowley411]

Wrightly or wrongly.......at least they are trying! And at least they are listening. Give it some time and the results will get better. The main thing I take away from it is that they are LISTENING. This can only make for a better game as long as we give it time to evolve. They are putting things out there and taking stats and actually learning from mistakes!

[@BadZombie]

If we kept all the rules free, but still did all the updates as is this edition, I would be okay with the near constant changes. I think this is why im more okay with the specialist games and old world. The rules are all there at the start and we just get expansions instead of rewritting entire factions and charging more to access what I had at the start of the edition.

[@brianjohnson5272]

Played 40k back in the 90s. I still had my army and books (1st marine codex) id still be playing those rules. You dont have to play the new editions.

[@madhatter1662]

I would say that, yes, it is nice that GW gives us rules for being able to play with our toys. However, their rules are not the end all be all. There are plenty of other options. There are other ready made rule sets out there, and home brew rules are always an option. The only time that GW official rules become a real issue is when players want to participate in official GW sponsored tournaments. Anyone who has paid any attention will know that GW official tournaments constitute a small percentage of all tournaments. So, if you want to play tourneys in Nottingham, then you must submit yourself to the will of the Chaos Gods. Otherwise, don't let anyone tell you how to play with your little plastic men.

[@dlee9726]

Win rates are very balanced rn. Fix agents, fix orcs, balance some other units. Republish fixed 10e codexes and let us enjoy wh40k for a couple years without worrying if our codexes or datacards are out of date and then release all of 11e at once. I love 40k but me having to sort through every unit in my army to check for rules changes before every game is so annoying.

[@piedpiper1172]

That isn’t a 50-50. Over half say it’s too much. About 1/3 say it’s fine. 10% want more. It’s fine and want more aren’t the same group. A majority of players, and sizably the biggest group of players, say it’s too much. Also, a mature game with refined balance will stay competitively exciting. Chess hasn’t updated in a very long time, yet it’s still got one heck of a competitive scene.

[@bremer1701]

It would be better if GW gets it right from teh start and not constantly releasing completly over powered codices and then nerf them beyond repair just a few weeks later. But in general it is a good thing if companies take care of their games. Mantic releases a rules update once a year, For Conquest there are two bigger balance updates twice a year and to smaller ones in between. Thats fine. But these games do not have expensive Codex books. Thats one thing about GW that is really annoying. I buy a book in store that is no langer valid because the points have changed since its release. But when i dont know that, i'll play with rules that are no longer valid.

[@piedpiper1172]

I would rather they actually stick to an edition with all armies having a codex and it all be in one digital place that we paid a subscription for than constantly buying books that are out of date literally before they are delivered in some instances. We should move to 11th edition, only to bring in alternating activation cus “I go with everything, you go with everything” is, and always has been, the biggest limit on the game and what makes it fundamentally kinda boring over repeated games without some update. I will gladly just pay a sub to have full access to a ruleset they refine, tweak, etc. they can keep selling us fomo boxes and kits and what ever, but I just can’t get excited for another codex that will last a year or two, with models that might not make it that long. Novitiates just came out for SoB a few years ago and now they’re not even on the GW website, will they end up in legends? Brand new plastic kit already gone? Why should I buy a set of castigators? Will they end up the same in a year or two? I’m all for the faster balance and fixes, but the edition churn has turned me off 40k rules entirely.

[@guardwargaming5907]

My take is that 3 months point changes are too fast. Even as a competitive player, half of the fun is making a list that can counter things in your local meta or at tournaments. Maybe 4-5 months would be better but every quarter seems a little quick and is definitely a way for them to make more money as well.

[@jamesespinosa690]

I'd say, give players a yearly, scheduled update. And then give each new codex, say, 3 months before a 'patch'.

[@guardwargaming5907]

@@jamesespinosa690 this works great

[@korniestpatch]

40k is now is not the same game when I started

[@ja37d-34]

it took me along time to adjust to 3rd Ed from 2nd Ed.. And when I finally accepted I had fun. The 4th Ed was maybe even better.. Did not play from 5th Ed and onwards but i would not play this current nonsense.. Bigger bases, smaller battlefield and much more large units? No thanks.. Would make me go stupid..

[@francoisdauzon3107]

If you play competitively, you want constant change? Disagree with this logic. Balanced games with no changes ever can have very competitive scenes, where the focus is on constant improvement. Chess and 40k are obviously different, but it's not an awful example. Constant change makes it harder to (really) get better at something, because the rules and dynamics are never stabilized. The goalposts keep moving on you. Change for the sake of creating a more balances situation where every unit can have a decent argument for being taken would be great, but GW isn't interested in this. A perfectly balanced meta, even if possible, wouldn't help sales. Change is almost required in order to motivate new sales... I can't think of the last time I had/wanted to get a new chess set. It's a pretty moot point, for that reason. Because the company needs to maintain change to maintain growth. It might come a little bit faster or a little bit slower, but we're stuck with it.

[@Dram1984]

@@francoisdauzon3107 they aren’t really interested in playing 40k, they are playing “find the meta in 40k”. That’s what’s fun for them.

[@piedpiper1172]

I don’t think it’s true they have to maintain change to maintain growth. A digital subscription model that gave you all the rules in one place, in a stable edition, with robust and effective list builders, card decks, etc would be a great alternative to the paper book spam. They’d still get our on going money, but the game could actually go through years of refinement and tweaking to produce a better on table product. The current model has reached a point it no longer feels “safe” buying a new kit. Everything feels like by the time I paint it, it’ll be halfway to legends. It’s just unappealing. They will still have all the chances they like to do big fomo box sets, model updates, etc, to take in that plastic crack money.

[@francoisdauzon3107]

@@piedpiper1172 The removing of significant amounts stuff to legends is, to be fair, a particularly problematic sort of change that is (imo) bad for everyone. Yeah.

[@MadMax-el2el]

Former 40k player here 95 to 2019... been gw free since 2020... 40k was always my casual game. I still play Mordhiem and bloodbowl. There are other far better games that have much better balance that i play competitively. 40k was my beer and pretzels bucket o dice fun... I have zero interest in a competitive 40k... Now... I think gw changing the game in response to the organic meta us a good thing... it is a long overdue thing. But it is engineered imbalances created intentionally by gw that drive me nuts.... looking at you 8th ironhands the reason I quit 40k. My other issue is i want the flavourful grimdark kustom characters with wargear lists and that beautiful grimdark art and lore... something that has been intentionally watered down since 4th

[@litigation_jackson]

Simply put I am just not going to read the FAQ

[@BorninPurple]

Is warhammer 40k changing too much? Is warhammer 40k not changing enough? Are factions too overbloated with specific rules? Are they too standardised and don't have any flavour? These and the hundreds of other contradictory questions the fanbase asks themselves, because nothing every satisfies them.

[@wyatttyson7737]

Frankly the online community is devolving in to a cesspool. No matter what happens a very loud group of people will kick and scream about it. Just look at the difference between how Mordian treats Old World and Bolt Action versus 40k. He often hand waves issues with the two former that he makes 30 minute rants on if it happens in 40k. 40k gets free rules, Mordian says “thats nice,” then complains about how it is delivered. Old World and Bolt Action require you to buy an overpriced book and he doesn’t even mention it.

[@DavidBurrell-b8x]

My thought has been that GW are trying to find a simplified/more accessible game in expectation of a huge influx of new players when the Cavill 40k series is released on Amazon, which is why there are so many changes now, so by the time the TV series is released they have an "oven ready" game system

[@2canzrcool]

Why do we rely on GW to to make the points/rules changes? Why not let a third party of actual players make these changes and just let GW make the some cool models.

[@JoeHero40k]

I feel like the changes keep people invested. Keeps thing from becoming stale. It goes a little too fast imo.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

I think people just need stop with trying to keep up with modern 40k and play whatever edition them and their group agree to. Trying to olay modern 40k with basically running on. Hamster wheel

[@jagermeister_1754]

Yes.

[@ShaunHolt-f1c]

You means *"WOKE"* or *"MODERNIZING"*.

[@parko246]

Yes

[@JustinBrown-gh9vv]

People are feeding the dragon. No company could sell a printed book, change half the rules in it, and force you to update your models without people buying the entire sales pitch. Then those same people get mad at the rest of the community because of sunk-cost fallacies. GW is not the problem.

[@therandomoguy3809]

No, i think longbeards dont like it because its different but regulaur rules updates not only give gw more space to hone the game but also can stop the scourge of undeinable balance nightmares where one faction rofl stomps all comers for 6 months. Hell, im a deathwatch main fair to say 10th edition has given me serious whiplash but id rather see regualir changes than stagnation for the sake of oh but x amount of people bought the codex so obviously they should get time to be the kings, go play an actual pay to win game if thats your mindset. Also codexes are dumb just do digital rules.

[@puenboy1]

That is under the assumption that GW always game good balance changes when most of the time they don't. End of 8th edition was relatively balanced across all factions, they rushed 9th out and immediately broke the game.

[@therandomoguy3809]

@@puenboy1 yeah edition changes I think is a different kettle of fish tbf, I'm alot happier to to side with editions should last longer but other changes within the edition I think are totally fine.

[@jamesespinosa690]

"They don't like it because its different". No mate. It's because it's BAD differences.

[@lappi2321]

@@therandomoguy3809 you mean you are an imperial agents main?

[@therandomoguy3809]

@@lappi2321 why must you hurt me so

[@cole8834]

they just shouldnt rush out new editions. if they have to constantly update things it means they rushed the edition/they're still beta testing it.