Is Zwift About To Have A Problem?

[@bikeradar]

What's your favourite indoor training app?

[@ariffau]

TrainerRoad

[@ralphinho77]

MyWhoosh. It's free!

[@CycleXplorer]

Zwift, racing and training. Just import your workout and away you go with stunning vistas (😂)

[@Philatlondon1]

BigRingVR

[@andymarshall8420]

MyWhoosh, free and has improved greatly over the past year. Many users coming over from Zwift after the price hike.

[@CycleXplorer]

To think we used to just stare at a brick wall. Now I need 3 screens on the go!

[@bikeradar]

Ah, the good old days where no fun was allowed.

[@TheCatAteMyShoe]

I prefer Rouvy. Zwift is great, but it gets so same-y.

[@michael1]

Many cyclists ride for decades on the same routes near where they live. The problem with indoor cycling isn't that they to keep creating new content - doing that would be an expensive mistake (especially if they are creating it all manually) it's that these indoor cycling worlds lack features to keep people engaged and interested when cycling in them. You can't even look around and see stuff when you're riding along that well. It's like their only idea was "pedal for a bit and then we'll give you a badge or a pair of socks" and not only is that not engaging while you're pedalling, once you've got the badge and socks you need another route..and then another....and then another. But people play football every week on the same pitch - they don't have to keep changing it to keep football interesting do they? The key is making playing the game interesting and fun. It's pretty much just advancing what zwift does in the first place. i.e just cycling around near your home is fine for most people, but when people sat on trainers and had to stare at a wall they realised that was mind-numbingly tedious and difficult to find something to do or look at. Well the idea for zwift went part way towards solving the problem but they really don't get the fundamental problem they need to solve and they've gone down blind alleyways of 'gamification' i.e the dumb stuff people have added to software that isn't even a game and piling up content. Really they need to think about why sitting on a trainer and pedalling is tedium compared with doing the same thing outside - and come up with a way of making the software add what is missing indoors - or replace it with something else - but that is the problem to solve. Solve it and you get people sitting playing your game and hours have passed and it felt like a few minutes. Then you've won. Certainly zwift's UI with its big ticking clock is the antithesis of that. Time never passed quickly when you were staring at the clock.

[@BarrioBarranco1]

@@michael1 That's one of my absolute hates about Zwift- the way they focus on Speed/distance/time smack bang in the middle of the HUD, with power/hr/cadence tucked away in the corner this should be the other way around with the option to remove whatever you don't want to see from the screen, and that bloody annoying "catch up" pop up thing when someone tears past you at 6w/kg and you're doing Z2 with no intention of fighting for a draft (the draft is crap too, zero feedback on what, if anything, it's doing... ). RGT had the best HUD by far, Zwift are LAZY as they know they have a captured market in effect....

[@gemugc]

@@BarrioBarranco1 I think they are allowing a fully customisable HUD which should be a great addition

[@simonskeggs7284]

I use Zwift, & Strava to record rides, & outdoor activities. For me the cost is well worth it for all the hours I spend on it, & the convenience.

[@rommelreyes2209]

It is really worth when you use it more. I still find Rouvy better. Zwift is just too expensive

[@keithandrewhardy8918]

I've been with Zwift for 4 years. Rouvy is now my preferred choice.

[@Rabbitnl]

After a couple of years on Zwift the community spirit still amazes me. Motivating each other during group workouts, respecting the race leader during social rides etc. Every time I step off the bike with a big smile on my face.

[@timwiste9536]

As silly as this sounds to people who don't game, I have always thought having a virtual apartment/garage in the Zwift world would be amazing.

[@b-manz]

You are right that sounds ridiculous :)

[@CycleXplorer]

Haha and then you can get a virtual turbo and go on virtual zwift. A bit like the mini games in gta 😂

[@galenkehler]

So I could simulate the 90s experience of riding in a virtual garage staring at a virtual wall

[@silverarrowslk]

‘Game’?

[@glennicol1361]

Can't imagine not having Zwift as I live in a busy area of KL surrounded by highways in every direction...

[@johngorentz6409]

Thanks for the info about Jetblack. I hadn't known about that one. I can't imagine a headband that would help me much with keeping sweat off my bicycle. In addition to a towel over the handlebars and top tube, I use a thick bath towel that tends to be soaking wet at the end of a session. Maybe a dispenser of thick bath towels within arm's reach would help. I know the feeling when a towel ends up on the floor. I hate to interrupt a ride to retrieve it and thus ruin my chance for a new record on a route. As for the app, I switched from Rouvy to FulGaz a couple of years ago, when Rouvy was getting away from the unadorned, user-contributed videos. In summer I ride for the scenery, and that's what keeps me going on a trainer, too. I'm an old guy well into my 70s and am more of a bicycle traveler, but having an indoor trainer means I don't have to travel to the U.S. southwest to get in some winter riding like I used to do to stay in some semblance of condition, which at my age is more important than ever. I don't want all that augmented reality gunk, though I understand why there's a market for it. I do like to keep track of my data, and I miss what Rouvy used to provide for me, but I make do with importing my Fit files into Garmin Connect (which isn't all that wonderful, either, but it's something). Although FulGaz is best for me now, I like to keep track of what else is going on, so thanks for your perspective.

[@simmooz3528]

Zwift is fun but too expensive unless you are bothered about racing. I’ve gone to ROUVY- I like the escapism of the real world routes

[@gregnichols2140]

Cost is 66cents a DAY!!!! for zwift............skip your favorite drink for the day and you can pay for 10days

[@adamwallace1863]

The cost of Zwift arguement seems mad to me. If I was to go to the cinema for 2 hours of a movie it costs me 20 dollars. My annual Zwift subscription is 300. I get a hell of a lot more than 25 hours out of that. I couldn't get a gym membership for that at twice the price. If you are doing any amount of indoor riding it's a bargain when you assess it fairly.

[@simmooz3528]

It’s about perceived value for money. Obviously the difference per day is minimal however ROUVY is £10, Netflix is like £5, Apple TV is £9 in the UK so I’d like to know how Zwift justifies the high relative price

[@DM-tg8es]

How come no one talks about MyWhoosh? It's free and really quite good. There are humans in there but not nearly as many as Zwift. They do have bots a certain watts that you can chase or ride with.

[@danielmacdonald4005]

@@simmooz3528the only justification is that everything in cycling is overpriced, and the same people that pay extortionate prices for kit, are the same ppl on zwift.

[@be2818]

I just cannot get into the virtual reality side... still a fan of the Sufferfest even now being under the wahoo platform. Ads weights training, mental training, and additional cycling/training platforms..... but that is just me.

[@lazzaboyman8003]

I have a Wahoo Move with a Wahoo Climb and it works really well, much better than when I had the front wheel and used a riser block.

[@Millicente]

Does the climb work with other apps? I imagine it does but not sure

[@mikewatkins422]

Simon, I'd appreciate any additional thoughts re experiences with Elite Direto XR mother board issues. I have a 2020 model and have had 2 board failures that result in the ERG mode not working. Any insights on this would be greatly appreciated!

[@DavidBrown-bc4fu]

That’s really interesting!! My Elite Direto has stopped responding to ERG mode. It’s 3 years old. The manual resistance change mode is working perfectly on my elite. Do I have the same issue ?

[@styven77]

I have my own cassette but use the zwift click for shifting which kind of locks my into zwift.

[@derekbroussard]

Indievelo has been awesome! Ai race bots which I prefer than being the only racer in my cat. Adding in trainer peaks is going to be amazing with their training and workouts. Game changer for riders who want both

[@bikeradar]

Seems like a really good deal. We're going to keep a close eye on it, but how have you found numbers of other users?

[@ShawnIsBatman]

The idea of the superior TP analytics and planning along with the (now) availability and tight integration between TP and Indie Velo (TP Virtual) will likely be the game changer for me. I have been a Strava subscriber for several years, however, there is no comparison between the ride analytics that are available in TP (superior) vs. Strava (weak). The additional big win would be the cost. Zwift ($144 US) + Strava subscription ($80) = $224 vs. TP Premium $125 ($94 for Black Friday). For me, I do not use any of the social aspects of any of the platforms and I currently do not race on Zwift. My use of Zwift is indoor training during the Winter. TP Premium created workouts have seamless integration with TP Virtual and I am sure that TP will have many plans for more features going forward. I am a Garmin device user (watch and cycling computer). There is currently seamless integration and upload from Garmin to TP. The choice (for my use case) seems obvious...TP Premium would give me a great virtual platform for workouts and superior logging/analytics at a significant annual savings.

[@craigbarth_rsb]

Unfortunately anyone who recently bought an expensive Kickr 5 are now stuck with the fact that it doesn't support virtual shifting... though older and cheaper other Wahoo trainers do support it. Really poor customer support from Wahoo!

[@garner145]

I dont think zwift is going to lose many people to this new platform, especially when itll be priced similarly to it, if not the same.

[@smithandshortdogs]

Ordered a jetblack for a Christmas present today. The second pre-order opened today.

[@bikeradar]

That's quite the Christmas present! Is it from you to yourself?

[@smithandshortdogs]

@bikeradar no for Short (I am named Smith she is named Short, we have and train dogs).

[@danielmacdonald4005]

I have a yearly sub to zwift but recently downloaded fulgaz and rouvy to test in free trial. I must say; both fulgaz and rouvy are far more realistic than zwift in terms of comparing to outdoor ride effort. However; the draw back is that there are so few users you just ride solo and that community feeling doesn’t exist like it does on zwift. The old adage ‘it’s not where you are but who you’re with’ rings true in Watopia.

[@jasonabbbott40]

I am testing the new platform, so we will see how Training Peaks can be tweeked going forward as it does need a few bits redoing

[@bikeradar]

They made some decent updates this year to TP. I particularly like their new strength workout builder. What do you think needs improving? Liam

[@KP-ol3tc]

I'm probably going to give it a try, great breakdown and comparison gents

[@PW-CreakySaddle]

@19:00 - my bike used on turbo cost £75 - why spend any more?

[@bikeradar]

A lot of us take this approach, especially when it's just going to get sweaty

[@alano444]

Because racing is awesome motivation and fun

[@htukmumfie]

indoor bike can be an old shitty bike with no brakes and set up 1x, then adjust the gradient feel to match your lowest gear. erg mode for training. job done.

[@SteakandChains]

The information for the world that is going to be released is already out there on multiple channels. With regards to training peaks I think if they start hosting events for their racers that not only tests performance, but also has cash prizes. They could definitely take over the virtual cycling world, but without something like that the recreational rider/racer I think will alwaysgravitate towards Zwift.

[@TruthFactsLM57]

From 1987 till Dec I used a CATEYE CS-1000 windtrainer for my triathlons . Got a smart trainer from Garmin , now 125 races later, 10,000 miles Tron bike in 48 days , level 84, at age 67 Zwift is like driving my 2017 Toyota RAV4 , using my old CATEYE , was like driving my Plymouth 1968 Roadrunner . So my big jump is big for me , for people younger little steps to make change . My cycling is better because of ZWIFT .

[@rickybarker4023]

One that pays for TP, ZWIFT and strava, I hope this new software comes up to the mark.

[@bikeradar]

The subscriptions in cycling are getting a bit silly

[@Philatlondon1]

Very tempted to get a Trutrainer SmartLoad set of rollers, as I'm stuck indoors for 6-9 months post op.

[@ianrob4760]

I have tried all of them all over the years and all of them have their pluses and minuses. Now my trainer bike I sued (an old boardman steel) need a complete drivetrain rebuild and some other stuff and decided to do it but for the winter road. So got the Zwift boke and yes tied into Zwoft but for what I want, a few extra kquid sub is just fine.

[@mikewood9284]

Love the community side of Zwift with group rides and just having something to look at during workouts, even better now with xert integration.

[@kellywoolverton6072]

Using TPV as I watch this. I switched because it saved me money and TPV does some things that Zwift doesn’t. For example if you’re doing an interval workout you can complete it without erg mode. So far so good.

[@MiataBRG]

Indie velo name: how about VeloPeaks, Peak Velo?

[@MikeCaffyn1]

odd that you don't like Rouvy personal uploads. this would be fantastic for me. But I do live in South West France.

[@Thomas-fy9yc]

Indie velo needs to come in at $9 month.

[@bikeradar]

We're hoping for different pricing structures. Would you get it with Training Peaks? Liam

[@morrisonmcqueen1364]

Great video. Thanks guys

[@bikeradar]

Thanks for watching! We've got special guests lined up for future episodes

[@finnishcyclist]

Gymrail Momentum X1 rocker is the best thing you can buy for your indoorcycling experience after trainer itself!

[@johnhudd2660]

with a wife a daughter and myself all riding online .... I am going for the platform that offers a family plan ..... Zwift isnt looking favourable without one

[@NicolasSp]

With ictrainer all family members are included - for a TOTAL of only $2.50 per month

[@JustBrowsing777]

In the same boat with a family of three. However, I haven't taken the plunge yet as I'm on the fence on what to get. I don't like being locked in to a superexpensive Swift subscription with the Zwift ride. But being able to use the same indoor bike adjusting settings for 3 people when you have limited space is a must.

[@Phizev]

Zwift's problem is the vendor lock in, there is no reason that we should be restricted to Zwift blessed hardware for virtual shifting buttons and steering. The controllers are not even available worldwide!

[@Brantastic07]

I wish I could virtually cycle with google maps street view

[@bikeradar]

Can't decide whether this would be awesome or terrible

[@NathanGuerraTV]

I think Lama, ZI, maybe yours truly are around plenty 😉

[@sigfreed11]

I like the name Peaks, but also I’m not sure I care what it is officially called because it will just get nicknames anyways. Feel free to call it Peaks, TPV, TrainingPeaks Virtual, Virty, whatever 💁🏻‍♂️

[@bikeradar]

I think we should probably leave the great nation of Australia to give it a nickname.

[@Bazza1968]

I came from RGT and SYSTM to a years free Zwift when they killed RGT. SYSTM alone not worth it, sufferfest workouts get boring, dated naff music etc. I did try iV for a couple of weeks when RGT was over, before getting into Zwift, when there was just one "Island"... The physics may be superior to Zwift and way more realistic (Like RGT was too), but iV graphics and route choices are still gash...I have no need for TP. My years free Zwift ends this month but I'll keep going with it for this winter and cancel come April when IRL takes over again. Next October I'll probably try Rouvy and decide between that and restarting Zwift (or if I'm somehow skint there's always MyWhoosh!). Personally I don't think it will steal many Zwift users, Zwift "just works" for many people who just want a simple workout and there's a reasonable amount of choice in routes and scenery(!) to not get bored....

[@michael1]

Well yeah. Not the least because indievelo has been free for ages and it didn't steal a significant chunk of Zwift users. If you can't grab significant market share being free...So far little or nothing has changed although I guess it could but simply announcing you're only going to be free for a few more months and then it'll cost money isn't creating competition is it? It's more likely the number of indievelo users will fall once the free period ends. The number of people who want trainerroad type stuff is obviously fewer than zwift too - i.e zwift are trying to make indoor cycling a thing not just doing intervals, undoubtedly there's an overlap but those guys already have trainerroad. And, as the guy says near the start of the video the developer just copied zwift including copying everything that sucks about zwift. Saying "The ux is the same as zwift" is like copying an African country and including ebola. If the guy couldn't see just how much the UI sucked it doesn't suggest they have 5 or 10 ideas that are going to make people think 'this is much better than zwift' does it? Although they could - and someone needs to.

[@bikeradar]

I think you make a great point. Zwift is now just baked into so many people's lives. It'll be hard to tempt them away. Liam

[@gemugc]

This is along my own thinking regarding Zwift. Been on there since Beta and also tried pretty much everything else but I always found myself using Zwift in the main because it simply works and makes the indoor struggle for fitness a lot more fun. The graphics are more than adequate and when immersed in a group ride or race you never really look to the finer details. There is the price hike but if you use it at least once a week then you are probably getting value for money. Time constraints mean being able to just hop on at short notice or times where outdoor riding is either risky or in darkness makes it worthwhile for me to keep the subscription year round. As I always say though, whatever gets you on the bike is good and we all enjoy some things better than others. I love the look of the real life video apps but time seems to stand still on those for me and just cant use them for any length of time.

[@michael1]

@@gemugc Yep. When I decided to buy a direct drive trainer to cycle indoors, there was only one trainer that came with a year of zwift, and a year of zwift was the only software included with any of the trainers (other than trials) Which is kind of dumb of both zwift and the trainer manufactures imo because MS included DOS with every PC. Instead here we have zwift making bad hardware and trainer manufacturers making bad software and people who should be partners are trying to shaft each other. Is there no one with a clue in this space? Currently twitch is the only indoor cycling app that works if you stream it from your desktop PC (RGT used to as well, but twitchy face has killed that as part of wahoo's pointless business meandering - why buy it and close it?) None of them really have shown that they have any great new ideas for indoor cycling apps. There's zwift who took a decade to change the hud and still haven't managed to make it flexible or readable. A couple of others who are all basically copying zwift and one who is presumably just wheeling wheelbarrows full of money to UCI HQ. But now I've got a year of zwift I'm going to use that.

[@Bazza1968]

So, I actually cancelled my Zwift and tried to flit between MW and TPV for the last 6 weeks. MW is ok but the frame rate terrible , using i5- 13500 with RTX4060 was dropping to 16fps, hopeless.... TPV yep, bot city, was using the "Anna Amber " pacer ride and it's the same course every day, and the same bots appear when on it...saw a real person once or twice but the scenery is just miserable and not much in terms of lengthy courses, so I've restarted my Zwift subscription a few days ago and am happier to be back in Makuri and France, in 4K at 60fps and with so much variety compared to TPV. TPV will end up in the same quagmire that SYSTM /RGT did unless they REALLY up their game on the iV side. At least RGT had a dozen very well replicated real world courses with better graphics.

[@neilashton9459]

I do a fair amount of indoor riding but nearly always as part of a training plan. I used Zwift to make it more interesting but did “race” in Zwift much. Since I already had a Training Peaks account and TP Virtual is included at no cost its an easy decision to cancel Zwift. That said the courses / worlds are more limited than Zwift and not as much racing (yet) so I might occasionally miss it.

[@talonlan]

Love Rouvy but it feels so dead to ride in, so I zwift. Bought a year just before the price rises and recently got into racing.

[@bikeradar]

How's the racing going?

[@talonlan]

@@bikeradar Really enjoy it but at 50 yo and 90kg it is hard going also Zwift completely messed up my racing score I was low cat C and they gave me a racing score of 470 what would put me high cat C low cat B it is about 60-70 points to high so am currently just dropping to a reasonable score.

[@JonathanHair]

Will never give TP my money ever again after they made my WKO+ license obsolete from a Windows update years ago. I paid money for this software and they stole it from me. Crooks.

[@shinobusensui9395]

I just want a single player bike simulator with yowamushi aesthetics

[@bikeradar]

No niche. Love it.

[@chrisoliver6690]

Why does the guy in red keep saying "kind of like" and "kinda" and "like" and up-speaking?

[@jareou]

I ride Rouvy, Zwift, BKOOL, and now Indivelo. If Zwift did not have the community aspect, it would just be average.

[@trplay1]

Copycats keep coming over and over but at the end of the day Zwift remains the king.

[@tarmaccio]

The fact you guys are speaking of “some similarities to Zwift” is a joke right? Guys this is basically a clone. The fact that it’s developed by an ex Zwift employee makes it even more offensive to Zwift 😂😂

[@marty197666]

I can remember doing turbo intervals just looking at a stopwatch. God it was awful! Zwift has been the best thing ever for my fitness. It’s biggest problem is graphics I think. Honestly it looks like a ps2 game :-(

[@josephlau8476]

I like mountain bike very much.

[@DrAlKlineDPM]

It was premium because it was the ONLY platform. Rouvy beats Zwift hands down.

[@angelafalalala]

Zwift supports women’s sports so I support Zwift

[@MrLeovdmeer]

The problem will be that it will be full of bots.

[@markcowen9538]

Riding a static bike indoors is just boring. Period!

[@bikeradar]

Nothing that a T Swifty playlist can't fix

[@lukevirtualgameruk3523]

Training peaks lol Who's gonna jump on that over zwift start all over again. Its good for new riders but I can't see riders from zwift go there my woosh is free and they let you keep your level from zwift and its still dead.

[@JFomo]

If it's not an app on Apple TV then it's not something Zwift should worry about.

[@bikeradar]

IndieVelo was actually available on Apple TV - so I presume TrainingPeaks Virtual is/will be too. A possible gamechanger?

[@jareou]

I have Indivelo on apple tv

[@chesshead]

Training Peaks buying IndieVelo reminds me of Wahoo buying RGT. Wahoo killed RGT. I hope IndieVelo doesn't go the same way. I gave up on Zwift a long time ago because it was too popular (you don't know which opponents around you are the ones you should be racing against) and because they have a two tier society (users without power meters pay the same subscription, but are ignored by other riders - racing doesn't work if the other person doesn't care when you attack and never attacks you).

[@markgrenier6787]

Orientated is NOT a words But you're great!!

[@NeverTakeNoCut-offs]

mywhoosh sucks

[@timcorso6337]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4OVYpeXrMx8eqs "I'd rather live somewhere much nicer than the South West of England" - what kind of hearsay.... 😂😂

[@bikeradar]

It's been 50 shades of grey these past 2 weeks. The sun coming out will probably make the news headlines tonight 😂

[@top_banana]

I have used zwift and rouvy like bkool better.

[@roadcyclist1]

If I had a dollar for every time one of these videos pops up claiming "zwift is in trouble," or "the new zwift killer," then I would be rich. Also, they are always 100% paid advertising from these inferior zwift knockoffs. What a joke.

[@Bigjuergo]

Indievelo graphics is so boring that it is worthless at the moment

[@Bigjuergo]

I can simply use my garmin to control my Trainer for free

[@gemugc]

@@Bigjuergo now that would be really boring :-)

[@Mikael150381]

Indeed it might lack. Im no Zwifter and what keeps me away is the nintendo look?! Have you tried the physics in IV/TPV? Well that works especially in team works.

[@gemugc]

@@Mikael150381 I signed up in the summer but never used it yet. I will give it a go though. I do enjoy the interaction you get on Zwift and find the graphics more than adequate. Used it since BETA and was involved with running the early group rides and love what they offer. Some of the real life video apps look stunning but, for me at least, they are pretty mind numbing and 20 minutes feels like an eternity. We are all different though and if you find something that gets you on the bike then all good. I have tried pretty much everything else and it is usually the boredom that turns me away from most and what keeps me using Zwift in the main. I think my younger self would have been all over the more training based apps or racing but they weren't invented back then 🙂

[@Avioto]

Graphics are extremely impressive considering the situation the dev was in. And calling it worthless based on graphics alone is dumb.