Is Zwift Racing Score Fair?

[@LD-bv1pm]

I was a low C, in the past I got dropped immediately by C's sustaining 3.5-4, now I'm a 250 and I get dropped by riders sustaining 3.5-4 :)

[@RoadtoA]

Now that's equilibrium!

[@jeffcreed365]

We shoudl ride together i am 240, haha

[@fraserp2377]

This is a great synopsis. I personally don't find it much different, not in the sense of where i come in the race, but in the sense that i still get to race hard with people around my level and enjoy it. That's what i sign up for and still get.

[@RoadtoA]

@@fraserp2377 thank you!

[@jooptablet1727]

It was fun racing with you today, we were definitely in the same category! I'm happy with the new system. Nothing is perfect, but this is a lot better than the static system we had previously.

[@RoadtoA]

I think that, too! Good race!

[@SteakandChains]

In the Spincast podcast, they recommended that people give the new scoring system a few months to allow for all of the movement to happen so that the categories can reflect riders with the correct abilities for that category

[@RoadtoA]

@@SteakandChains exactly...each system is only robust as the data that enter such system.

[@SteakandChains]

@@RoadtoAalso Rob, Zwifty Zwifter pointed out that the top 2/3 will generally go up in points and the bottom 1/3 will generally go down with a few minor exceptions. The race I did on Monday I just couldn’t keep up with the group and ultimately fell to the bottom five riders so I knew my score would go down, I just didn’t put any effort into trying to close a two minute gap by the end of the race. I think that is going to happen more and more as people continue to see that trend.

[@RoadtoA]

@@SteakandChains ​​⁠I think Zwift will ultimately aim for a standard distribution of riders across the categories. Right now it appears more people are in the mid-lower rating levels, thus the relative disparity between people who gain points and who lose points. In other words, good people will move up eventually and everything will be as it should.

[@SteakandChains]

@@RoadtoA 💯 agree

[@talonlan]

Then they should have released it later on to get better starting data.

[@shazzalarkin9569]

Very accurate assessment with no bias well done . As always its racing not group rides you want fixed effort thats where you go. You win. You lose. You struggle.💪👏

[@RoadtoA]

Thanks 👍 I fully agree.

[@mumblecake251]

I think a system like Indievelo would be best. Everyone joins the same pen. 1min before the race the pen gets closed to new entries. The server takes the race scores of every rider and dynamically distributes it into 5 pens (make it from a gaussian distribution as the majority of riders will be somewhere around the middle). Still means that you will have fuller pens in Cat B-D and few in Cat A and the new Cat E but that should generally be fairer. That does of course mean that some races you will ride in a higher category than in others but that is due to the fact that in some races much fiercer opposition has joined. At the moment you have the race score and artificially superimposed categories. In the dynamic system you only have race score.

[@RoadtoA]

@@mumblecake251 I think dynamic system is something inevitable for Zwift also.

[@percyveer2355]

that would only work if the data they used for the categories was valid. they are heavily weighting 30 second power which is absurd.

[@dazcarter73]

It doesn’t take account of gamecraft. I’m one of those riders that sits at the back, saving myself for when it counts. My power numbers din’t look great compared to those of a similar Zwift Power world ranking (top300), but I don’t feel the need to have to produce big watts when results are generally determined in the last 1-2min of a race. Im classed as B cat on this ZRS. But I continue (as I have done for 7 years) racing in A cat. It wouldn’t feel right racing in B Cat.

[@RoadtoA]

That's fair, but I think you could race in the B (or second group for that matter) if you wanted. If you'd be winning easily it would bump you up soon anyway.

[@dazcarter73]

@@RoadtoA I can race B or A. But I’d rather race at the top level, A.

[@jeffcreed365]

Gerben is this you?

[@igorsimplicio8993]

My experience with the new racing categories is that there is always a rider who escapes the peloton and wins the race solo, with massive amounts of W/kg much higher than the others. This was the case throughout the entire testing period. Unlike the old categories in which this hardly happened, except with very light cyclists who did not reach the absolute minimum power to climb the category. That said, the first race I took part in this week was cool. Some riders escaped, but there was no brutal difference in level. I hope that in time these aberrations will be corrected.

[@RoadtoA]

Yea, that sucks. But it is inevitable, there are riders who trained all summer outside and didn't race at all, which means their rating is likely way underestimated. That should sort itself once they win few times.

[@FigBug]

I think the old system sucked because strong, heavy riders could just sit in the bunch and then unleash a huge sprint. Win every time and never move up. Light riders (especially women) got punished since they had to do higher w/kg just to stay in the bunch and got upgraded without ever coming close to winning. The new system really punishes heavier riders, especially in hilly races, but that is realistic. It's cycling, your weight matters. Only change I'd like to see is the categories not be fixed number values. They should constantly be moving so you can't target a specific racer value. Some days you'll be the big fish, other days the small fish. Kinda of like real racing, sometime cat1/2 and cat3/4 go together, others days it cat1/2/3 and cat 4/5, others everybody gets their own race.

[@RoadtoA]

I think they'll eventually get to that.

[@S9999Frank]

yeah, like heavier riders never got punished on the hills before, this is a joke right ? Rider at 88 kilos here, constantly outperformed on zwift by lighter riders that I can punish in real life riding out on the road. If anything

[@blackflamesolutions526]

@@S9999Frank Yeah, lighter riders have always been favoured on Zwift, and now even more so. I ride dead flat races and can hold 400 watts for 5 minutes. I get dropped by 55kg guys doing 260. This is contrary to the laws of physics. On the flat it is absolute power, uphill it is power relative to bodyweight. In the new Zwift, Michael Rasmussen would drop Tom Boonen on the cobbles. I have heard that much of this idiocy is driven by the big market for Zwift in Asia, where riders tend to be significantly lighter.

[@S9999Frank]

@@blackflamesolutions526 Yes, this is also my impression. Funnily it also seems like light riders have a great sprint, due to good power to weight ratio, while in reality like you say, absolute power is king in a sprint.

[@egardner1096]

On the flat I agree but Dynamic pens would of sorted it out, give everyone a chance to be top and bottom of a Cat

[@benjapolcycling]

I missed the race that just use one E cat. Or at least a big massive start. That's fun to me to mix and Match everybody and just see the final result at the end.

[@RoadtoA]

*cough* Tour of Watopia. *cough* 😅

[@AndrewBrown-em3ti]

This is really interesting. I was a top end Cat C based on 20 minute power but have no sprint. Im currently scored as 368 on ZRS so right at the bottom of the new C. Im very happy to keep racing and to see where this goes. It does feel a lot like the old B Cat when I’ve raced in it although probably not quite so full of sandbagging A cats. Think that the categories are probably still too wide and more pens would create closer racing. I do wonder how “dynamic” the scoring system is too- my number is flickering up and down by 1 point despite getting battered in a few recent races. Appreciate that this is early days and things will evolve. Im happy that Zwift have tried to do something in this area but it still feels like a work in progress.

[@RoadtoA]

It is a work in progress. That said, if the system moves you up or down a single point after your race it probably things you are very near the point where you are supposed to be - at least compared to other racers in the group.

[@talonlan]

I was a mid to low Cat C rider and I got a racing score of 470. I have no idea how it works it out you sound like the kind of rider that would routinely beat me ( based on your very short description ) how on earth was I ranked 100 points higher? who knows lets see how things shape up in December I suppose

[@AndrewBrown-em3ti]

@@talonlan seems to be a really heavy weighting towards sprint ability. I rode a lot of the early Lab races and m score was around 430 and then it dropped 70 points just before the formal change to the new system. Think that they need to look at a broader dat set and not just 30 second and 10 minute power perhaps?

[@talonlan]

@@AndrewBrown-em3ti Yeah quite possibly I have a 1200watt sprint it is definitely the strongest part of my race but by the time I can sprint everyone has finished the race 3 minutes earlier lol

[@gerolsteiner300]

I am a strong C rider as well but with a very strong sprint. I am at 575 not even close to being able to compete with these guys. They just climb one incline at 5.5-6.0 and I am dropped. Will be some months of really hard work to see land in this category.

[@thomaslianee7494]

I hope it will get better over time when more and more do races with racingscore. An idea could be to take the system from golf to determine the racingscore. The 8 best efforts of the latest 20 races determine the score.

[@RoadtoA]

That's an interesting thought!

[@bitminerbob6731]

It's a step in the right direction which helps prevent sandbagging. So many A graders were competing in B grade races when the A grade numbers were low. That made it tough going for the B graders. But now those A graders would be graded in the top category and they can no longer race the old B grade, so I think this is good. The system needs some tweaks and that will come with time. I think the top category should be 750+ rather than 690+ but that is part of the tweaking process. My race score is 740 and I'm a 55yr old 93kg (sprinter) high level B grader on a flatish course, so me racing in the top category is hard going but all and all I think the new category system is a step in the right direction.

[@RoadtoA]

I agree!

[@blackflamesolutions526]

"My race score is 740 and I'm a 55yr old 93kg (sprinter) high level B grader on a flatish course" My race score is 141 lower than you and I have 20 and 5m power that falls bang in the middle of the A category. My 5m power has actually won short TTs in the A class. I just can't sprint. I know a legit A+ rider with a 'domestic pro' level FTP with a score of 570. This is nonsense.

[@bitminerbob6731]

@@blackflamesolutions526 as a sprinter I win a lot of races so this has bumped up my race score a bit. Still think A grade should start at 750. It all comes down to the sprint and my 15s power is 1280w. If I'm in the mix in the last 300m and positioned right, I'm confident I can finish well. Lots of track sprinting over the years there. I think with a fair bit of tweaking they can get this race score system dialed in.

[@blackflamesolutions526]

@@bitminerbob6731 It doesn't change the fact the sprinters from the old C class have the same score as many A riders who don't have a good sprint. Giving an old C rider 20 points because he wins a race with a 3.2 w/kg average, while deducting points from an old A rider who finishes 24th in a race with a 4.3 w/kg average is utterly daft. The second rider is much stronger than the first. The level of race should factor in the point allocation more. as should 5 min power and 20m power.

[@bitminerbob6731]

@@blackflamesolutions526 sprinters get the chicks. :) If you can't sprint then you generally won't win and they're basing the race score on performance which is fair enough as it is a "Race Score", not a power score. My best 20m power is 387w and the FTP is 348w. I rarely use that much power in races as I'm conserving watts in the draft prepping for the sprint so 30s and 15s power is absolute King. No doubt they'll be doing a LOT of tweaking and factoring in some other considerations such as the 20m power too in the future.

[@ptadam22]

Awesome assessment. Racing should be hard. If you’re not getting dropped at times something is off.

[@RoadtoA]

@@ptadam22 ❤️🫡

[@egardner1096]

You have got this so wrong, ZRS is completely broken, there are now bigger gaps in ability than the old CE Cats, some races have old ABC and D in the same race.

[@RoadtoA]

That isn't a wrong thing to happen necessarily, IMO. I respect your opinion though!

[@AJIsaacsZwifting]

When Cat As are racing Cat Cs you know the system is terrible ​@RoadtoA

[@gerolsteiner300]

I don’t know if I agree with the point that it’s only a seeding score. Me being a strong C rider with a FTP of about 3.2 I was ranked at 550. I did some races and got dropped very hard, scoring 18th out of 25 or so and I only lost a few points. Then I did very well in ZRL c category and I got upgraded to 575. it’s hilarious

[@RoadtoA]

I get your point but it might not mean you are seeded wrongly. There are other riders who are way stronger but are lacking the max efforts they need for proper seeding. In other words, you as a true 550 rider meet 550 riders who are, in reality 750 (example). This will however settle only with time.

[@percyveer2355]

similar to my experience. mid c ftp similar to yours. getting hammered in races, yet taking part in the zwift academy workout the 30 second effort massively increased my score.

[@Trihardercycling]

Explain to me why i was a very bottom B. Like very very bottom. Should have stayed high C to me and my zwift score is 634. Which in your own words would mean I’m a high B/ low A…I can’t complete at all. Only your 20min/1 hr power should matter. My 10 and 5 min power doesn’t matter when I’m forced to ride at 3.6w/kg which is not sustainable for me at all. The new scoring is ruining zwift for me. If I could post a picture I would show you.

[@blackflamesolutions526]

"Should have stayed high C to me and my zwift score is 634" I am 598 and was an A rider. Zwift thinks you are a better racing cyclist than me but I can do 4.4 for 20 mins and 5.3 for 5 mins. 3.6 for me is easy. The whole thing is daft. I know a legit A+ (black A symbol) rider with 568. (he has a semi-pro FTP but a Cat 5 sprint) I have also seen legit ex pros with scores lower than you. in my opinion 5 minute power is the best metric. It's your VO2 max. They are replacing 'fitness' with 'how often you race and how fast your sprint is'.

[@ptp1969]

@@blackflamesolutions526 30s or the weight in the calculation is too important at the moment. High C, on the fat side of life with a sprint and it gave me a score of 614 with a 20m value of 3.2w/kg and was facing B, High B, A and even A+ riders who did 4.5 with one leg. Got dropped every race within 3km.

[@RoadtoA]

@@Trihardercycling 5 minute to 10 minute effort is the most important power duration for most Zwift races. If you are forced to keep such power for the full duration I would say it is more problem of your race strategy/drafting. Edit: hopefully this post didn't come off as arrogant from me, that wasn't my intent at all - I was typing quickly while waiting for a tram. I just wanted to point out that your race result should never be decided with your 20 min power or longer (unless you are doing climbing specific race, in which it does).

[@RoadtoA]

@@blackflamesolutions526 spot on, imo!

[@RoadtoA]

@@ptp1969 30 second effort has only minor impact to the seed score compared to the 10 minutes.

[@N.Leander]

I got placed in cat b, after having one top 4 placement in cat c (only top 10 I had) and a decent ftp up the alpe. Needless to say, cat b was just demoralising. So I welcome the new system with open arms. However there will always be moral loosers with ways to make themselves have small moments of fake glory. Long live honesty! 😊

[@RoadtoA]

@@N.Leander I would say that if we want to be fair, we need to admit that the system has its flaws, but overall I think it's a step in a really good direction!

[@percyveer2355]

interesting video. what this shows is that zwift have been totally incompetent with this system. they have grossly over valued 30 second efforts in the scoring system. the fact they are implying they may use 1 years data for those without adequate data shows the failures. they have the data available. i'm 92kg, ftp of 290. i have hundreds of races, they have my power output up to 5hrs. and yet, due to some workouts with 30 second efforts, my score was almost 500. in races i was finishing 6 and 7 minutes behind. in those races my score was higher than people in the top 10. and my score, it dropped by a few points. with the extra xp i have been doing races but riding at zone 2, finishing towards the last few places, my score is now as low as it can go at 402. i'm done with the racing. again, this should not be possible to make such a mess with the data they have available. gross incompetence.

[@RoadtoA]

@@percyveer2355 they have such granular data for you, but they might not have such data for everyone. In other words, you might be seeded correctly but not your competitors. Now, I am not saying this to make excuses for them, I have no skin in the game, but I know from my professional life that mathematical/statistical models need robust data sets. Which they don't have...yet. Give it a one more chance in a month, I am convinced it will get better.:)

[@RoadtoA]

Do you agree? Do you disagree? Let's discuss this thing!

[@talonlan]

You don't make a balanced argument you are obviously very pro the new system. I honestly have no clue whether I think it is fair or not but I do think that average rider power distribution for the current rankings seem to be a lot larger. Last race was between 2.5w/kg and 3.7w/kg where as old cat C was 2.5w/kg-3.2w/kg. For a system that was meant to make it more fun and racing against others of equal ability that large a variance seems to suggest otherwise. Time will tell but at the moment it feels quite crap.

[@hllamasiv]

This is the worst thing Zwift has come out with. I’m a heavier D racer, average w/kg go a race is around 2-2.2 but I have a strong sprint so can usually compete in races. My racing score is 353 which basically has me racing A and B racers who are dropping me 2K into races. I’ve done 5 races so far with Zwift scoring and I’ve bounced from 353 in the first to 343 in the second, back to 353 in the third. So I’m doing one race coming in dead last and then one race coming in the top 5 just to be bumped back up and come in dead last again. The other part that’s crazy to me is how I’m losing to people in the lower category with lower racing score than me, and I’m still getting bumped up! This is making racing on Zwift no longer enjoyable.

[@egardner1096]

My racing seed score is also 353, there are riders in Cat E with half my score but they have a better FTP than me 😆

[@fraserp2377]

Your description makes your racing score sound correct. If you are doing well in 180 - 350 races then you should get put up surely? This was a problem in the old system for a lot of people, same old names winning races and sticking around forever.

[@hllamasiv]

@@fraserp2377 the part that doesn’t work is how am I losing to B and C riders in the sub 350 category who have lower scores than me and I’m the one that gets bumped up.

[@fraserp2377]

​@@hllamasiv agreed I have noticed a small number of better riders with a lower score. They have always had fewer races though, over time as people race I hope this will get better. This also used to happen in cat D though. Mostly new sign ups or people who were fit from riding outdoors smashing the races. It's just one of those things.

[@Eagle-vo5be]

Well analysed! Thanks

[@RoadtoA]

Thank you!

[@micahmaresca9763]

I am 57 yrs old, I am far past my stronger days. When I was racing in the USCF I was a Cat 2, I want too race as a D but I am in a C category and I cannot break top ten. I think the scoring system is broken.

[@andrewstarkey4234]

Im 3.4wkg racing 5wkg+ riders. They tell me its cery satidtying when they beat me

[@RoadtoA]

@@andrewstarkey4234 These numbers are for what duration?

[@brianwhite9]

Those guys will be gone in a few races. I am 4.4 wkg and race those 5+ wkg, so I understand going into anything but a rolling or flat course I will get destroyed. Like today's Muckle Yin. I was 10/13 with the other 3 doing Z2. And I see your frustration and hopefully in a couple weeks you will see less and less of those guys

[@RoadtoA]

@@brianwhite9 exactly!!

[@ptp1969]

Disagree on the point that this solves sandbagging. If you zone 2 the Tiny Races on Saturday your score will drop around 70 to 80 points in one hour. That is more than enough to keep you in the cat you want for the rest of the week.

[@RoadtoA]

@@ptp1969 People who really want to do this will definitely find the way, at least until Zwift implements the system that ignores low effort rides.

[@Stavros_Polymeropoulos]

The old version was worse tho, a rider could just draft all race and then win every race without getting bumped in to the next category

[@ptp1969]

@@RoadtoA that also doesnt work. Just follow the group and let yourself drop in the last km. As long as you end in the bottom 3rd of the riders you will lose points.

[@leezavarise]

you can't expect to drop an entire category after doing poorly in 1 race. It should take a few races. Also if someone wants to purposely lose races to then win races, go ahead. The problem with sandbaggers in the old system is you could work it so that you always won and still stayed C.

[@brianwhite9]

The moment you look at someone's Zwiftpower and see five last place finishes, three podiums, six last place finishes, another two podiums you see what is going on. Granted that doesn't solve the sandbagging issue, but it will shake up the groupings and people who truly race will go to were they belong

[@Me_Hall]

Racing with riders that are "better" that you is the best way to get better. Kinda why I also like being placed low in a group where people are all stronger than me. Its also easier to see progress that way. Regardless, the more one rides, the more accurate their category will be and thats all we can control ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[@RoadtoA]

Oh yea! I think it's no fun to race with WAY better riders than you are, and that was more of a problem in the previous categorization, IMO.

[@talonlan]

Yeah that only is true if you are actually able to keep up with them if they all drop you and you are riding solo against better riders you aint going to get better anytime soon.

[@Gledii]

i just got "promoted" to Cat B. if there is now the new score system, why the are still using the letter categories, do you know? and what was that page showing your score? thats not zwiftpower right'? thanks

[@RoadtoA]

@@Gledii I believe they cannot fully commit to the new system yet as there are (mainly elite) race formats that are not ready to work with the new racing score. The page showing my score is the race result on an official Zwift website.;)

[@cgmlcs]

Zwift’s scoring system is so broken it’s shameful. My racing score is 616 and Zwift has me racing A cat.I’m 50 yrs old with an ftp of 4.0w/kg on a good day. As a B rider I’d usually finish top ten out 30 and as an A rider I get dropped at the first hill or serious attack and the I ride to finish by myself with a time slower than the C cat winner. Zwift has me lining up to race the same people who race the esports world championship….how stupid is that?

[@RoadtoA]

Not sure what do you mean here. If you are 616 RS you are in Cat 2, not the first one (so you should not race with the elites).

[@brianwhite9]

@@cgmlcs 690 is the top group unless you were in one of the events that had different groupings. The standard top group starts at 690

[@cgmlcs]

I'm not allowed to race any cat other than A.... It doesn't make sense to me.

[@brianwhite9]

@cgmlcs when you go to enter an event the second group is not an option? Just because you are "A" pace group doesn't mean you have to race top group

[@brianwhite9]

@cgmlcs if you have done an event before October 7th the groupings were different. Post October 7th the grouping for top start at 690

[@Duborne]

They need to move and change around the score cats every race. Then in some you will be the worst and others the best.

[@RoadtoA]

@@Duborne I agree that might be a good approach, especially for controlling the amount of riders in each group.

[@egardner1096]

That does not work as racing score does not correlate to performance, it would of worked in the old system but not in this system, somebody with 500 score could have a worse FTP than someone with 350 as Zwift have put to big an emphasis on sprint ability.

[@Duborne]

@@egardner1096 the new racing score is based mostly on performance. If you win, or do well in a race your score goes up. If you do badly it goes down. It's just not based solely on FTP anymore.

[@egardner1096]

@@Duborne Your score can only go down 15% from seed score, seed score is based on 60 seconds and 10 minute effort, If you are a good sprinter ZRS over estimates your ability, I have a seed score double some riders that have a better FTP than me .

[@keith_cottongim]

Since my racing score is 316 I like the new system. When my racing score goes above 350 I will think the new scoring system is horrible! 😂😂 I think it’s better. I noticed some racers in “D” would east pedal at the front of the pack and then crush everyone in the sprint finish. They could stay in D since they didn’t exceed the W/KG.

[@RoadtoA]

I think that's sort of the general pattern now. Whoever is at the top of the new CATs is pretty happy with the system and vice versa.

[@mainselectrical7163]

it doesnt work for me being 110kg. i need to be in different cat for races with hills or flat. am currently in 520/690 in a race with even small hills i am doing a solo ride it made it so boring

[@RoadtoA]

@@mainselectrical7163 I get what you are saying but if you are at a Tour de France you won't win sprint stages and mountain stages at the same time either. Everyone has riding at which they are better and those at which they are worse.

[@mainselectrical7163]

@@RoadtoA i know but this is zwift not my career. am a big fat fat guy on a bike in my house trying to lose some weight and make it fun. the wkg kept it competitive for me on flat and small hills. i think if you are extreme end in weight they need to consider it.

[@RoadtoA]

@@mainselectrical7163 My point was you can be still competitive in flatter races.

[@Woody321]

I’ve got a mate who’s way faster than me in real life and zwift but his score is lower than mine and can join lower level 🤷‍♂️

[@RoadtoA]

The system needs time to settle. That said, your mate can be faster IRL but you can still be better Zwift racer (smarter, better at drafting etc.)

[@egardner1096]

You must be the better sprinter?

[@S9999Frank]

you are the lighter of the two of you, and can ride away from him uphill on zwift ?

[@Woody321]

@@S9999Frank😂😂 nope he’s 15kg lighter than me and can climb Alpe in 40min with my best at 59mins

[@oli668]

That will sort itself out in about 1-2 races.

[@CycleWithMatts]

I like it more as my racing score 350-530 is low B high C so Im quite competitive lol

[@RoadtoA]

@@CycleWithMatts 🤜🤛

[@jeffcreed365]

Whether its fair or not it is a MUST. The old way was WAY too much cheaters....Sad thing is Cheaters will find a way to win. ..I was Middle C and now still Middle C, haha

[@RoadtoA]

Change was inevitable.

[@zwiftleavesnotyremarks]

Level 100 800 races to make me solid b low a new cat b feels right with the new mix of riders available. To much moaning it's RACING after all. Most of the odd stuff seems to happen to old c cat being put way over there heads. Still needs plenty of time to settle

[@RoadtoA]

Exactly!

[@joshvillen]

Zwift sandbagging is such a strange concept to me. I am imagining someone buying zwift who is super excited to get fit and build their base only to find out they prefer to sit in and win pointless races...

[@RoadtoA]

@@joshvillen right? I don't get it either.

[@Ryan.T89]

It’s a load of nonsense, as I was winning D races and got bumped to C on the old system. I was running mid pack in C and some times making the top 10 but ZRS has me in with what would have been B cat. I can’t even last the first 5k in most races. Guys are pumping out 5 watts per kilo plus for the entire race.

[@jeffcreed365]

I been on Zwift 2 years and for me Everything but Racing is what I usually do. Race to beat your personal records as opposed to racing against sandbaggers and cheaters. At least on Strava the cheating with electric bikes are a few and they stick out like a sore thumb. How can someone that is in almost all top 10s and multiple KOMs finish races on Zwift last basically dead last??? Zwift racing is a joke and I do not take it seriously. When 7 of the top 10 finishers in the race are 54 KG I CALL BULLcrap!!!

[@RoadtoA]

I mean. It's still a game, probably none of us should take it very seriously.:-)

[@Steven_Snary-TBR]

If you want to tank your race, swap in a mtb.

[@N.Leander]

Surely AI will sort this out!

[@RoadtoA]

Hehe! It might, AFAIK TrainerRoad uses AI to estimate FTP, why not ranking afterall? :D

[@blaquaman1739]

You gotta change your KZbin page name now

[@RoadtoA]

@@blaquaman1739 Road to 691? 😂

[@ZwiftyRaces-j7v]

@@RoadtoA Make it so!

[@benjapolcycling]

​@@RoadtoAgood idea. People outside zwift will wonder what the h that number is 😂

[@mikebrooks215]

ZRS is so wrong it’s not funny. They didn’t take into account riders FTP or longer efforts and lighter riders have an unfair advantage. It needs a major overhaul or should be scrapped.

[@shaylorcyclingwahoo]

No you don’t understand. The only fair system is the one where everybody gets to at least finish in a blanket sprint on the line, ideally everybody wins all the time. Anybody getting dropped, ever, is proof Zwift don’t know what they’re doing… /s

[@RoadtoA]

@@shaylorcyclingwahoo hehe