ISO Capabilities On The URSA Mini Pro 4.6k

[@averypeck]

To clear up the ISO confusion from other comments: the sensitivity of your sensor never changes. When changing ISO, you're just boosting the signal after it's already been captured. The same way that turning up a CD player doesn't make the CD itself louder, it just takes the signal from the CD and boosts it before going to your speakers. Your native ISO is the true sensitivity of the sensor without any amplification applied, so when you expose the sensor at ISO 800, you're seeing what sensor actually sees without any "tampering". This allows you to expose the image to the absolute limits of the sensor, thereby giving you the most dynamic range. At other ISOs, you aren't exposing the sensor properly even though the image looks correct, so your dynamic range always takes a hit.

[@ANK7PRODUCTIONSS]

Ur awesome Avery 😍

[@OliverJBiggs]

It's also worth noting the allocation of DR between highlights and shadows at different ISOs. 800 is the 'sweet spot' because not only does it provide good noise performance, but there's an even split of DR in the shadows/highlights. I think it's something close to 7 stops both sides equalling 14 stops total. When you raise the ISO to 1600 what actually happens is the allocation of DR actually gets weight more to the highlights. So you get something of say 9 stops of DR in the highlights and now only 5 stops in the shadows. Conversely, the lower ISO you have, the more DR you're going to get in the shadows. (The numbers above are a bit arbritary as I'm unsure of the actual weighting, but the concept remains the same) So what you should really be doing is trying to stick to ISO 800 as much as possible, use the built in NDs to cut light where necessary and use extra lighting to boost light if you're already wide open. If you're finding a lot of noise in the shadows, a good technique is to rate at 400 ISO and gain an exposure from there. That way you can keep your scene dark and moody and still maintain decent DR in the shadows. What people need to understand about the UMP is that it's not really a run n' gun low light camera. I personally came from an A7S II and it took a lot of getting used to. The UMP will provide you with some incredibly cinematic images, but you have to feed it the right light and make sure that you're not abusing the ISO and then trying to lift up exposures in post. Get it as correct as you can in the camera on the day and this camera will treat you well! TLDR; High ISO = More DR in Highlights at sacrifice of Shadows Low ISO = More DR in Shadows at sacrifice of Highlights 800 ISO = Native sweet spot - stay here as much as you can

[@nickyoon8619]

I am in the FINAL stages of collecting all the necessary parts for my complete BMDUMP rig. This couldn't have come at a more perfect time... SERIOUSLY! 🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Thank you so much! Keep watching, loads more to come :D

[@encellon]

Interesting how the underlying philosophy is so similar to Ansel Adams -- you expose with your process firmly in mind. And your 'process' includes lighting, media sensitivity, and knowing how to set the exposure for the best possible post-processing outcome -- all of with the same old goal... every aspect of the image lit the way you want it lit (art the way you expect to see it). It does not happen entirely inside the camera or entirely in post -- it happens in a conscious process that extends from exposure through public presentation -- a process fully in mind during shooting.

[@stormbowling]

Thank you for all your videos on the Black Magic cameras. I have found your reviews to be the most complete and informative. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us.

[@NoirEtBlancVie]

Hey Garth, thanks for all your insight. Super helpful, super concise and well thoughtout. I have the 4.6k, but would love the Pro....maybe they’ll have a Pro 2 in a year or two.

[@davidp158]

Great examples. So many camera reviews lack a good range of images, but this nails it. I'm impressed with the URSA Mini Pro, and with the new BMD RAW option, I'm giving this camera serious consideration.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

It's a great camera, but also check out the UMPro G2!

[@JAYFULFILMZ]

If you turn your shadows down more it will not only get rid of the noise in the shadows but it’ll also give you a more cinematic look!

[@alphaandomegaproductions5073]

Seeing your node tree showed that you have a LUT applied to the clips you are demonstrating. Also, color correction? Am I correct? If so, unfortunately, it makes the comparisons unreliable. The LUT will change the dynamic range of the clip, apparent grain, in addition to color. I think we would need to see the clips in black magic's color space without a LUT and grading. I should say that I love the grading through.

[@christophershivers6257]

but he showed both ungraded and graded

[@ethanperkins9795]

Dude..excellent content! Best channel reviewing Black Magic Design that I've seen. Do you recommend or personally prefer using 400 ISO on the 4.6k?

[@Akasacarafilm]

I stick with ISO 400 with BMCC. And yes you can make full feature film iso 400...

[@michaelb4180]

I bought an Ursa Mini Pro last December and have come across a strange sensor issue. I first noticed strange vertical lines in my mid day skies on some shots. Contacted BMD, they asked me to shoot a properly exposed clip at 4.6k Uncompressed raw to see if its a sensor issue or just compression artifacts. And when they received the clips they agreed something was wrong and asked me to ship it back. after a week of them trying to fix it they told me they couldn't fix it so they sent me a new one. Second one arrived I tested it, same issue. I went trough the process again and they noticed that indeed there was some artifacts. They guided me through a process of doing a thorough sensor calibration, warming up the camera for about an hour with the bodycap on and running a sensor calibration. It helped but the lines were still there and worst in prores and a strange band of light magenta on the bottom of the image. They then agreed to take it in for inspection and I shipped it to them. After another week they said they improved the image and they shipped it back to me. I got it back and the vetical lines were worse. After another week of going through the same process they sent a strange generic response of how the camera is performing within expectation and that FPN is normal when pushing dark images. Funny thing is that every frame they got from me was of bright day light sky and never anything dark. I asked them what dark images they were talking about and asked for them to help me fix the issue or find a solution because I had lost an important client because of this issue and I had just bought the camera new 5 months ago. As of now I have been dealing with this for over 4 months and Blackmagic Design is now just ignoring the problem and just giving me the run around. After begging, literally by email, they agreed to replace the camera once again and i haev a feeling that if the new camera has the same issue they are most certainly going to just say that its working as intended instead of just admitting to this as a sensor issue, like the first Production 4k camera fiasco about FPN that was denied and ignored until enough people voiced their frustration and they finally admitted that it is in fact the sensor and not user error. here is a small sample of the first Ursa mini Pro I had. its simple. Shoot outside, blue sky, native Iso( recommended by BMD), expose a little to the right( recommended by BMD), apply BMD 4.6k 709 Lut( recommended by BMD), and adjust color and contrast to your liking and 8 out of 10 chances are that you'll see vertical FPN in your sky and acording to BMD its within spec. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYrRmHd9itiXnck Second Ursa Mini Pro( i have a ton of examples of the second one, this was a quick one I did for the UMP group in Facebook) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWTRY3mdrb1oe6s In conclusion with an Ursa Mini Pro/4.6k: Be cautious with your darks, be cautious with your mid-to-highs , expose to the right always, and hope you don't have a defective sensor/have it within "spec"

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Sorry for the late reply. man thats a pretty rough time you've had with the UMPro. Im struggling to see the true quality of the footage with youtube compression rates. Could I ask a favour, would you be able to send me some stills from your footage in Davinci resolve? Preferably the shots that have the worst FPN. Ungraded if possible. I just want to do a couple of tests on the photos. If you grab a PNG then the quality is still pretty good. I luckily havent had any sensor issues and I have all 3 of the URSA's I will also ask a friend of mine from BMD about this. Thanks for the comment and support! Will try and help you out with this! Thanks again! [e-mail]

[@crunchphotography528]

Killing it dude! Thanks for the info.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

My pleasure! Thanks for the comment :)

[@marcel.kovacic]

All this technical stuff and pixel counting and idk what else just doesn't get to me. I still believe ursa is the best in this price range. The footage is incredible

[@todea]

Great Explanation, thank you!

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Its my pleasure :) thank you too :D

[@brettclements]

Thank you. Very informative from the trench.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it

[@JamesCooperider]

Fantastic video - I love my URSA Mini Pro. I do have a question regarding resolve however... I’ll have a grade that looks phenomenal in Resolve but upon export, the colors are muted and contrast is slightly lessened. The biggest difference is in color richness, however. I’m using a 2017 iMac 27” 5K (no external monitor), using DaVinci 15 and have played with all of the export settings... I do use the “video” data levels in export. Any ideas?

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Im currently away from home, will be back In the next 24 hours. Sitting on the floor of the Dubai airport waiting for my next flight :D I have experienced the same thing, then I spoke to some of the guys from Blackmagic. One of the ways to make sure you get a fairly accurate colour export is to make sure you've got the data levels set to full and the retain sub-black and super-white data box checked. Also if you are doing a export for youtube at H.264 then set your quality to 25000 kb/s for HD and about 50000 kb/s for 4K Give that a try and let me know how it goes.

[@corneliusdobeneck4081]

The answer is very simple but will disappoint you. iMac sucks shit when it comes to color grading. The screen itself boosts color and contrast. You NEVER get true colors on an iMac and you can't calibrate the screen. What you look at on an iMac screen is NOT what you get. Drop the iMac and get some Eizo monitor, put them side by side and the shock will cure you from ever getting a crApple item at all. :D In times of rather reliable Winfuck 7 and or 10 crApple is done in the professional field. whaaa ... if bloody Adobe would finally release their software for Penguin Power (Linux) Winfuck would be done in the Pro field as well.

[@NathanMillerVisuals]

Already in the first example shot the ISO is significantly better than the 4K URSA Mini. That camera can't go past ISO 400 in reality. The image looks amazing still even with a 1.4 Prime in the dark if there's already some light. But more push is more better lol.

[@gellert.ficzere]

You can clean up the image from color noise/artifact with chroma noise reduction (with luma at 0) in Resolve really good. Even the 'Faster' option is really good but you can crank it up to 100 even with the 'Enhanced' option if slower rendering/not real-time playback is ok for you.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

100% agree! Just wanted to give UMPro users an idea of how to get the cleanest image in camera, also hopefully giving a bit of insight into how the cameras sensor works and which ISO setting gives you the most room to adjust :) thanks for the comment brother :)

[@hugobrand6196]

Have you experimented with ETTR? (exposing to the right) I shoot with the blackmagic micro cinema camera and it really helps to keep the image clean.

[@overnightclassic2]

Waste of time if you understand how to expose. The camera's ISO is not a GAIN but and EI change, so changing the ISO does not affect the detail the sensor captures. So exposing to the right by 2 stops at 800 and pushing the exposure down is the same as shooting at 200 ISO. And shooting 200 iso or 400 will give you some flexibility if you accidentally underexpose to bring your image up a little. So what you're doing is essentially useless. Exposing to the right is useful when you're on a steadicam and you don't have time to get perfect exposure. As long as you're not clipping that can be easier to expose than trying to get it perfect. So if you overexpose by 1 stop at 1600 ISO, it's the same as shooting 800 ISO. If you shoot a well-exposed image at 1600 ISO it's very clean and usable too. ISO should be purely used to distribute dynamic range and not as a way to adjust exposure. But that being said going to 400 will give you some flexibility in scenes where you don't need the most dynamic range.

[@joemmatthews]

Awesome video. Also,​ a color grading tutorial would be great

[@ViktorJohansen]

What luts are you using on these shots? Thanks for the video, awesome stuff!

[@sonarithkh]

im interest on your documentary, anyway can I know how can I watch full show " Disunity " the rhino one xD thank you in advance

[@danielcross1043]

Great video!

[@FKfilmphotography]

Can I assume this also applies to Ursa Mini 4.6k users, both cameras use the same sensor the pro and non pro right?

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Yea thats true. Same sensor in both cameras. Im currently shooting a video about using natural light for documentaries and that will also be for both UMPRO and 4.6K

[@FKfilmphotography]

Garth De Bruno Austin awesome. I'm hoping to get the 4.6k soon.

[@alphaandomegaproductions5073]

The one difference is the filter that is in front of the Ursa Mini Pro's sensor. It removes any hint of the magenta cast.

[@kyleroberts9738]

The Hurlbut video about the 4.6k described ISO400 as the native for it.

[@joshmvfx]

@@kyleroberts9738 The sensor is running at 800 ISO on an analog level though. Since you can't lower this, it makes sense to shoot at 800 ISO and above. Just step it down to 400 ISO in post for a cleaner image...

[@christophershivers6257]

i would say stay at its native iso which is 800 this is where you would get the maximum 15 stops of dynamic range. If you go higher or lower you will have less DR

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

I would say I agree in certain circumstances. From what I've found in situations where you don't have control of the light and you know you need room to adjust the shadows in post, then I would recommend ISO 400 if you shoot in ProRes, all other situations I'd say ISO 800. If you shoot RAW you can change ISO in post so I would recommend exposing for ISO 400 then Changing it to ISO 800 in Post to have even more latitude and room to adjust.

[@christophershivers6257]

Garth De Bruno Austin I wrote that like at 1/4 of the video lol. I would agree in low light situations I would stick with 400 and outside or controlled environments I would say 800. But their color science is not like the rest because regardless of iso if your shadows is at a certain ire you will see noise. If you’re using a Sony or Panasonic.

[@dalessandrofilms]

what luts or color grading process do you use? and what lenses

[@overnightclassic2]

Good info, but boosting the ISO does not increase the electrical charge of the sensor. It uses exposure index, so the ISO is not baked into the image when shooting raw. ISO just redistributes how the range is captured. The reason your ISO 200 underexposed image looks "clean" is it's the equivalent of an ISO 800 Image that is well exposed. If you shot RAW you could underexpose your 200 image, flip the switch to 800 and you'd have a clean image. Likewise, underexposing 1 stop at ISO 800 is basically the same as shooting ISO 1600. So if you correctly expose at 1600, there should be minimal noise too.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

I should have specified, but none of this is in RAW. its all in ProRes. Which is why i've done this video. ProRes bakes in all the data as it's shot including your ISO setting. I will upload some high quality stills for everyone to check out for the different ISO settings, but ISO 1600 is basically unusable in ProRes as the fixed pattern noise is baked into the image because of it's digital gain. The word ISO is a standardised measure of the “sensitivity” of the camera’s imaging system. Exposure Index is a term from the days of film, its a rating system. ISO is actually the "International Standards Organization" they are the governing body that standardises sensitivity ratings for camera sensors. "In film, Exposure Index is the rating used in a particular shooting situation that is different from the actual film speed rating" It meant that they noted that they would take film stock of for example ASA/ISO400 and either chemically or in later years with colour timing push the film to 800. The term has now been adapted for digital cameras to make it easier for the guys that came from film. The difference is that you are seeing the results immediately. Good article on all this: www.abelcine.com/articles/blog-and-knowledge/tutorials-and-guides/iso-ei-and-gain-explained When it comes to how the sensor works I must admit I did get the order of things wrong. when the light hits the sensor photons are collected, and a electrical charge is generated, the brighter the light and the more photons that are collected the higher the charge after this process everything that happens to the image is digital including the ISO setting/digital gain. Thanks for the comment, will clarify in the next videos whether i'm shooting RAW or ProRes :)

[@overnightclassic2]

Although very simplified, think about it like this. ISO 200 is like shooting overexposed at 800 and then pushing it down in the grade to reduce noise. Shooting at ISO 1600 is like shooting underexposed at 800 and lifting it up 1 stop, hence why there's noise. Everything though revolves around the EI rating of 800. I know you're shooting Prores XQ. Blackmagic uses an EI mode and does NOT use gain at all. They only shoot at a fixed 800 and don't change the electrical charge in any way. It's not the same as the gain mode on the F3, it's more similar to the EI mode. With Prores, ISO is baked in, but lifiting up the shadows is still very close to the same thing as changing the ISO settings in the raw data, just slightly less room. If you switch into xyz linear (using color space transform) and gain up the image, you'll almost get 98% the same results as changing ISO with RAW. It's very close. If you shoot prores at 1600 but in a well lit environment (to where there is very little dark areas and properly exposed) or you crush down the blacks until they are truly black, the 1600 is very usable, but mostly people only use 1600 if they don't get enough exposure at 800 which is what creates problems. If you instead use 1600 as a way to get extra highlight information and better rolloff during daylight shots, then 1600 is fine although you'll maybe lose a touch of saturation. Your reasoning for 400 however is VERY good as it is helpful in case you accidentally underexpose and want to lift up a little later. It just gives you more flexibility if you expose wrong as it's harder to see an underexposed image vs one that is clipping.

[@overnightclassic2]

Yeah so the way it works is the camera only has one ISO setting of 800. The other settings are "fake" and the same equivalent of if you shot 800 ISO and color corrected it to be 400 ISO or 1600. The only difference is that by setting it to 400 ISO and exposing for that is you're correcting it in camera so you're not staring at an overexposed image. Technically you can design a 3D lut that produces a 3200 ISO image if you ever want to shoot 3200 ISO. Your 400 ISO tip is still fantastic.

[@alexasmr3047]

keep it up

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Will do :)

[@nicolom6490]

I wish the native ISO was lower. The noise in the shadows sucks at ISO 800. If ISO 200 had as much dynamic range as 800 it would be a better camera

[@franciscoconsuegrarodrigue9021]

the ursa mini pro has a stabilizer in the body of the camera?

[@LetsTalkSomeTech]

Do you ever experience any fixed pattern noise on the UMP? A couple of these shots I believe would have displayed some FPN even at lower ISOs like 400 on my unit. Trying to determine if I have a bad sensor or if it is typical.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

You shouldn't be seeing any FPN at ISO 400. I will Upload a bit of test footage at ISO 800 and ISO 400 from the fire and streams of light shot so you can compare to your own camera footage at the same ISO

[@joshmvfx]

You are actually incorrect about the electronic sensor sensitivity thing. The Ursa Mini 4.6k sensor is always running at 800 ISO on an analog level. You can test this for yourself. Shoot at ISO 200 in raw, then bump it to 1600 in post. Now shoot 1600 raw, and leave it. You will get an identical image pixel per pixel. This is a mini myth set up by the cinema camera industry. DSLR's change ISO on an analog level every time you bump the ISO. Cinema cameras however, do this by shifting the dynamic range (after the image is captured) and don't change anything on the sensor level. Now, if you are shooting in prores and have a highlight dominant image, it makes sense to shoot in 200 ISO. The few dark spots in the image will be kept noise free thanks to the increase in shadow DR from ISO 200. If you have a mostly dark scene with a couple of bright spots, shoot 1600 ISO to protect those highlights.

[@830Video]

What is your opinion on rokinon's Cinema DS Series?

[@BlackProductionFilms]

Can you please provide us with your LUT? Thanks

[@victornyman268]

I have an URSA MINI PRO, but when shooting at 800 ASA in Log and underexposing a little bit, I see a lot of vertical lines on the image. Most of it will go away when I grade the footage, but I have never seen this issue with RED, Alexa, Sony or Panasonic earlier. Have you ever seen this on your footage?

[@javierpuchetovich3307]

you mean fixed pattern noise or FPN.

[@ChristopherYork1978]

Yeah, don't underexpose the camera or you'll pay for it dearly. ETTR and you'll be all good.

[@Romeo615Videos]

after 3 bmc's i think im done with this brand...my friends film with sony and no grain fixes and i spend hours rendering grain fix for a .2 looking better image...BMC is not to good

[@tunahentertainment8466]

What export settings do you use?

[@splashdownmodels]

Why would you upload the footage in 1080 instead of the highest quality available. That low light footage looks really grainy and unusable. When showcasing the shadows it's all pixelated if I was basing my purchase on this video Blackmagic would have just lost a customer.

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

Do you mean the actual review or the downloadable footage? Cause they are both in 4K. If you are using safari to watch the video on youtube you won't be able to see it in 4K. Try using google Chrome. otherwise Im not actually sure, that's really strange

[@AsparagusVideo]

Not being able to be flexible w/ ISO is more than a deal breaker for me. To the point where I'll never consider a Blackmagic camera even now that the MBPCC2 has been announced.

[@ErrickJackson]

If you shoot RAW on it, you can adjust your ISO in post. This video is in reference to shooting in Prores.

[@tomsamuel4211]

What LUT are u using?

[@GarthDeBrunoAustin]

I will do a video on my grading and the Lut I use, I Have got a specific Lut that I use but I just use it as a starting point, I change most of the Luts quite a lot.