The dichotomy of psychology is really profound between "I will be good and pleasing to others, I won't make waves, I won't be bad or difficult, so that I can be loved/accepted/wanted/safe;" versus, "I am worthy and valuable and inherently loved, just because I exist, and I don't need anyone's approval to justify my existence."
@Tas22708 ай бұрын
Well that explains the Palestinians in WestBank. Why should they be good victims and allow to be displaced and killed and be unwanted.
@angelasophia37058 ай бұрын
@@Tas2270 if they believed that they are worthy and valuable and inherently loved, they wouldn't want to murder jews nor kill themselves in the process. They don't love themselves. No one is asking them to justify their existence. If they valued themselves and their lives, and the lives of others and wanted peace, if they would be partners for peace, rather than destructive, there would have been a successful two state solution decades ago. They aren't victims. They make themselves into martyrs for a cause - the eradication of Israel. If they dropped this genocidal cause, everyone would live together beautifully.
@PatrickPease7 ай бұрын
Who is displacing them? 20% of Israel's population is Palestinians who choose to treat jews as equals. Those guys in Gaza and West Bank refuse to accept a jew as an equal.
@gg_rider7 ай бұрын
@@Tas2270 the Palestinians were offered a country in 1936, 90/10 split. Not only was there the refugee issue from Europe, There were local indigenous Jews who never left, and there were refugees from Arab countries. Jews had purchased land from Arabs to the extent that some of the Arabs persecuted (to death) 150 other Arab leaders for selling Islamic holy lands that Muhammad (actually, Umar) conquered in 637. Rather than make a deal on a 90/10 split, the response was the Arab Revolt and the refusal to establish an independent state in the land of Palestine. This would be the second Palestinian Arab State because the British created the first Arab Palestinian state in 1921, the Emirate of transjordan. They had worked on it with local Arab villagers and mini Kings for 5 years. Prince bandar bin sultan spoke for over 3 hours about all the efforts of Saudi diplomats over several decades pressuring Americans and attempting to help Palestinians have their own state, but every time it was this close to a final signature, the top representative who was Yasser Arafat either rejected the deal or in one case he made an excuse to disappear for 3 months. I assume you know that the Arabs of Palestine also refused to establish a state and turned to violence instead in 1947. Is escalated to all out war in 1948 to 1949. I don't know if it's ignorance or conscience propaganda, but people seem to believe that a mass expulsion of Arabs from Israeli cities occurred on May 14th, 1948. That may be because the campaign to totally annihilate the Jews and destroy their state began on May 15th, 1948. Those two things blended together, perhaps, but it was the war that launched people fleeing or being expelled, for various reasons and depending on which historian you listen to. People fleeing War and mass expulsion, that's normal. Look at Syria and Syrian refugees. Even without outright War, there was Jewish mass expulsion from Yemen and Iraq to Morocco and Tunisia and Egypt, as well as Syria and other Muslim states. The people of Israel did not invite the people who just tried to slaughter them to come back and live in the neighborhood. Most israelis, except for probably some religious extremists, would have been overjoyed if the land for peace swaps had resulted in stable peaceful relations with sovereign Arabic, but what happened instead was some combination of terror attacks, for the first Intifada .. AS THE RESPONSE TO THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS. October 7th was the response to diplomatic negotiations of the Abraham Accords, in which Hamas hoped to disrupt a warming relationship between Israel and other countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia. Not to discount other strategic plans that were laid out in the 1988 Hamas Declaration of existence and purpose. That includes no to any negotiated peace, same as the Arab League three nos in the 1951 Khartoum resolution, no peace, no recognition, etc. They can't have a state which has borders with Israel because that would end the war and would concede that Israel exists, is legitimized, and has borders. After October 7th, the government of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank published orders instructing mosques to begin preaching the Gharqad Tree verse which is Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Declaration and also is Surah 2922 in the book of Hadiths that is authenticated as Sahih Muslim. That's the verse that calls for total annihilation of Jews and makes it a prerequisite to getting into heaven, a prerequisite to end times and judgment Day. So that is the government that was projected to be the responsible peaceful rulers of a sovereign Palestine nation state, but over and above any commitment to building a nation, the obsession is annihilation of the nation next door.
@Tas22707 ай бұрын
@@gg_rider wow for such a long worded responses you seem to be the one peddling propaganda. Let me see here getting 10% of shitty land for double the population of Arab is a good deal that they should take happily? Not surprising that is what they tried to do in Canada with Indigenous people. Nakba is a propaganda and of course people leave when they are massacred and that is normal. It’s only when it’s Europeans that it gets enshrined in booked and taught as gospel. The pre-emptive war of Israel was Arabs fault because the baddies just couldn’t be trusted. And somehow Imams are preaching hate 😂😂 dude which Hasbara telegram did you copy and paste this from?
@shelleyscloud36519 ай бұрын
I see Haviv & I click on. A simple rubric which has never let me down 🥂
@trainerdisability8 ай бұрын
I just ground him. I’m Now looking for everything. Amazing.
@kandilula9 ай бұрын
Gur is brilliant. Loved hearing him get so amped up, he's usually very measured.
@CashCowz9629 ай бұрын
Bro is great
@emileblanche58689 ай бұрын
I’m not even Jewish or Arab and I love hearing this kind of lecture.
@novacancy72538 ай бұрын
Me too!
@jimmyjames79417 ай бұрын
Same here a Christian American
@peteredwards6677 ай бұрын
This is a great article about
@peteredwards6677 ай бұрын
How 😢we got to this point
@jalemairliha2 ай бұрын
Haviv is a treasure!
@jeanneschaefer93189 ай бұрын
A brilliant analysis of basic historys and realities of American and Israeli Jewery. Amazing and profound.
@harlanglass8 ай бұрын
Said so well. Thank you.
@shelleylingamfelter32657 ай бұрын
😢@@harlanglass
@SP-nx8qx9 ай бұрын
I'm envious. As a Greek I wish we had someone to explain our modern history to us like that guy did for you. Instead we get BS after BS.
@Jjjjjk10019 ай бұрын
I fear that So much of your beautiful culture, the best culture, was purposefully destroyed by the genocidal Ottoman Turks
@LOPEKJJJ9 ай бұрын
He’s mostly wrong, but he makes a brilliant argument.
@jaialaiwarrior9 ай бұрын
Lol. You've got communists like Yanis Vanoufakis! But don't feel too bad. Jews have idiotic self-hating commies among their ranks too
@OffbeatsMusic9 ай бұрын
@@LOPEKJJJ Share a video of your historical talks please, to elucidate?
@CashCowz9629 ай бұрын
Yes..school and mainstream media is total garbage 🗑....they don't teach the truth and all the ugly facts...everything is made up
@victorleonades41599 ай бұрын
I thought I knew jewish history. This class was amazing!!!
@sj69868 ай бұрын
I am absolutely absolutely shocked this video has only 1200 likes and some 6000 views. This and the next video are complete eye openers - doesn’t matter what side of this war you are on - Israeli, American Jewish, Palestinian, Arab or just about anyone. Haviv Gur dissects history so masterfully and lays out all its innards for you to see so masterfully that you can completely see and understand each side’s point of view. He does not demonize or judge any side - that is left for the viewer to figure out for themselves. He does have opinions but he makes it clear how everyone landed where they are today in this conflict. A very dramatized and action filled narrative is the Netflix series “Fauda” - makes it clear that for Israelis this conflict is hard and painful but they cannot give up because they are nowhere to go and it is about survival, not morality while for the Palestinians, it is a holy or ideological war.
@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros8 ай бұрын
holy or ideology war 😢😢😢 sad. Means, it MUST be war? Jews are the only remaining "NATION" and the only with the divine right to kill?
@sandy-jn5rd7 ай бұрын
i watched Fauda too, and appalling how the Israeli agents have the license to kill civilians in a gun fight if they fail to duck down. It’s a TV show and the writers may have exaggerated it. But it’s shocking to see they don’t exercise maximum tolerance protocol.
@mercedesb22997 ай бұрын
He is absolutely spewing ideology, you can't hear it because it is the very same ideology that you already believed, as evidenced by your final sentence. There are whole other groups whose story he is not telling. This is all from the perspectives of the poor bullied Jews. Did you know that Croatians, and Polish, were tortured and abused in concentration camps during this period? He calls them "Nazi collaborators" in this "history"...this is an EXTREMELY slanted history in which he has just erased or maligned multiple other groups of people who were tortured, victimized, and killed too and everyone is gushing over it. It is sick.
@misriya41475 ай бұрын
Israelis can literally travel.anywhere in the world, but Palestinians cannot. You are inverting the truth
@jalemairliha2 ай бұрын
@@sandy-jn5rd🙄 please. When your enemy predominantly holds an annihilationist ideology you don't stop to ask questions to find out where they fall on the extremist spectrum. That's the tragedy of the reality.
@p.j.d-13 ай бұрын
Tremendous introduction for anyone wishing to understand WHY. "If you ask permission to live, eventually you're going to be told no." For this reason, Israelis are unapologetic. As the professor says, they are the world's "Jewish refugees." Their strength is a source of inspiration to me as it should be to all.
@GoldSilverShop9 ай бұрын
Wonderful lecture, heartbreaking. He is really good at delivering the message. I really felt the pain of these people.
@zarawalden9 ай бұрын
Excellent speaker. Fascinating and moving lecture. Before this I only knew of him as a journalist.
@MaryamofShomal9 ай бұрын
As a proud Iranian who was born in Iran, I love my people so so so much and I’m proud to be part of the oldest surviving civilization in the world - but it is with no hyperbole that I say, in my book, the Jewish people are arguably the greatest people who have ever lived. I just pray that more American Jews realize how much of a miracle and blessing from God the modern State of Israel is, both for the Jewish people and for the entire world. God bless and protect Israel, and grant her a swift and total victory over her enemies 🙏🏽 Long live Israel 🇮🇱 Long live Shah Reza Pahlavi II 👑
@ronshatzmiller36839 ай бұрын
Why are Iranians so effing cool? THank you for your words. I hope we can all get rid of the Ayatollahs soon and you can get your country back!
@martinmartinmartin29969 ай бұрын
I too am immensely proud of the Israeli Jews , in 1969 I left the USA , where I was born, and became an Israeli-American , Today I live in Israel near Haifa . Israelis are the children, and grandchildren of the survivors of the Holocaust, the survivors of "dimmis" the Arab Middle East, even Jews from India. The Israelis are unique tough and sweet , like the sabra plant.
@MaryamofShomal9 ай бұрын
@@martinmartinmartin2996 SMART MAN 🫶🏽 God bless you for seeing the beauty in your people and your homeland. If I wasn’t so certain that my people back home in Iran are going to soon be liberated from the demonic Islamic regime, I would choose to live in Israel in a heartbeat over anywhere else in the world. As a Christian, I’m always warmed by the miracle that is the modern state of Israel and I thank God that I get to live during a time when the Jewish state of ISRAEL exists. Once we send these demonic mullahs and their terrorist praetorian guard the IRGC back to the deepest, darkest pits oh Hell, I will be moving back to Iran and our two peoples will be close friends and allies once again 🫶🏽 God bless Israel 🇮🇱
@shlosher9 ай бұрын
Thank you, you're awesome! Happy New Years, I believe?
@DevorahC8 ай бұрын
It brings tears to my eyes to hear your generous words. I guess we are hungry for support. Iranian culture is beautiful. So sad the fundamentalists have suppressed your prosperity. May modern ' liberalism' rise again in the world. (note: this use of liberal is not about American political parties but rather freedom and choice, and participation in govt. Thus it includes both Republicans and Democrats in U.S. )
@lynheller-altona60877 ай бұрын
So completely grateful for this. Made me sob. Because of the flood of understanding and then because of the the relief I felt in the understanding. For the words that put some sort of order to my understanding of what it is to be an American Jew today in the midst of the world of humanity. Gave me a glimpse into the stories that exist behind every human experience. Going to do my best to get others to watch.
@TheoHyman-Bockman9 ай бұрын
Haviv has such a dynamic presentation and did an amazing job with this ❤
@stephensands34858 ай бұрын
What an amazing lecture. Haviv is awesome. I’m not Jewish, just interested in the history and background. Haviv is such a magnetic and passionate speaker, and he does such an excellent job picking up on underlying themes and making them concrete. If he ever stops writing for the Times of Israel, he could easily pick up a job as a college professor and people would love his courses and analysis
@jkfradk6 ай бұрын
This presentation was nothing short of astounding, as is the other video that followed! The mere fact that Israeli society is capable of producing analysis of this caliber and depth is a testament to the fundamentally honest mentality of its people. I highly recommend taking the time to watch the video on the Palestinians.
@Lohensteinio9 ай бұрын
Looking forward to lecture number 2!
@SuperMCFIVE9 ай бұрын
This came out on YT a few days ago: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
@avimaltzman56735 ай бұрын
Wow. How impressive and the best articulated answer to the “Jewish Question”. Genius. Thank you
@sdarbha42708 ай бұрын
With recent world events, I was searching KZbin for factual, good perspectives and stumbled upon Mr. Haviv Gur's clips - and haven't been disappointed since. Makes me wish I was back in my student days, with access to such enriching learning experiences. Having said that, I should add - When the rest of the world was aflame with anti-Jewish sentiment going back centuries, there's one land where Jews were always welcomed and never persecuted - That is India. This fact is actually mentioned--with gratitude--in one of the founding documents of the state of Israel. India extended that same openness to all religious groups, some religions that most folk in the West haven't even heard of - such as Zoroastrians, a minority who were also "pogromed" (by the Islamic majority in Persia). The tradition of religious tolerance in India goes back literally millenia - An Indian King, Ashoka, issued an edict 200 B.C. that no person shall be persecuted on the basis of religion, and that people are free to pray to whoever they want. Think about that - It would take literally 2000 years for Europe & the New World to come around to that same wisdom. And it's a sad testament to the stagnation of the human mind that some ideologies deny such freedom EVEN TODAY.
@TzvookT5 ай бұрын
Yep, and we Jews (as are Indians too) have a VERY good memory (Kirgil etc')
@Maturery7 ай бұрын
I am 50 and not Jew and This is the second lecture of Avi that I am listening to and wow. It was quite emotional in the lecture about the second survey done and selection was crematorium. What was felt by the people of that time after all the persecution. Hope the allies seen the same.
@Stumashedpotatoes7 ай бұрын
*Haviv
@65gudgeon9 ай бұрын
Gur, you are my campus. I wish I could digest and spew knowledge like you do. ALUF!
@ArtU4All8 ай бұрын
Keep studying and practicing. Memorize a few passages and see how your tongue will become more disciplined and flexible. Read a lot 🤝
@l.marciaga50306 ай бұрын
His lecture was so informative and of such clarity! I am not Jewish but during this lecture I cried on three different occasions.
@BillPeter8 ай бұрын
Great lecture!! I was born in Haifa Israel and was circumcised in King Abdullah of Jordan’s personal tent that he gave to the hospital for thanks in treating his sick son. He wanted peace and the Palestinians murdered him in Jerusalem in front of Al Aksa which led us to where we are
@sandy-jn5rd7 ай бұрын
in fairness, the Palestinian assassinated him for annexing West Bank in 1950, leaving them no land left of their own
@GY-bd9bo4 ай бұрын
@@sandy-jn5rd they were Jordanian citizens. Two thirds of Jordan's population was Palestinian. It's not like they were disenfranchised or under military occupation.
@veraglauben9 ай бұрын
I am looking forward to the next lecture, thank you very much!
@SuperMCFIVE9 ай бұрын
This came out March 14th on YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
@lloydgush9 ай бұрын
American jewery for years: "what if israel loses its legitimacy?" Me, non jew, for all those years: "If israel has any risk of losing its legitimacy, every country around it lost a long time ago, and so did you."
@adonissalameh79842 ай бұрын
Dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time
@lloydgush2 ай бұрын
@adonissalameh7984 not an argument.
@דוריתמרי8 ай бұрын
Wow, this guy is a really great lecturer. As an Israeli Jew, whose grandparents all fled Iraq, I agree - most of us are refugees and descendants of refugees. It's something we just almost never think about.
@deskset74367 ай бұрын
Whenever people complain about Israeli democracy, I ask them “How many Israelis immigrated from democratic countries?” The answer is almost zero. Czarist Russia, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, the USSR”. You’ve got every system of autocratic government imaginable. Autocracy is easy. Religious fundamentalism is easy. Hating others is easy. Democracy is hard. It’s not natural, it takes time, and you have to learn by doing. Give this tiny post-colonial state a fucking break, just like you give every other messed up post-colonial state a break. And when the Palestinians have a state, trust me, it will be an equally messed up post-colonial state. I’m not saying don’t fight for democracy and peace - please do. Just - understand that Israel (and the PA and Iraq and Afghanistan and Malaysia and India and Pakistan) are not America, France, Germany, Britain or Australia. Not because if “cultural differences” or “Western values” but because it took hundreds of years for those nations to establish the kind of democracies they have today, EVEN WHILE they controlled most of the power, money and resources available globally.
@Colleepoly39757 ай бұрын
I think Zionism places a huge emphasis on not having a "victim mentality" which did prove very fruitful in the project of state-building, but of course that also had its downsides.
@Owenalpe6 ай бұрын
I think about it every day but never did nearly as much before October
@megantaylor41894 ай бұрын
@@deskset7436 well said.
@yanivreif73799 ай бұрын
This was amazing! Waiting for the next lecture.
@Scammicus7 ай бұрын
Great instructor, a demanding, engaging instructor. You can see how much he is working to create understanding, and not rote memorization. Great speaker.
@arnenannestad77889 ай бұрын
You're fantastic keep up the good work!
@RicardoRodriguez-ik8wh9 ай бұрын
Outstanding! A learning dissertation.
@omarlittle-hales82379 ай бұрын
SALaM, SHLAMa, SHLOMo, SHALoM, NAMASTe, PEACe. ZiONiSM & STATe TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With JUDAiSM. ISIS, TALEBaN & TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With ISLaM.
@kelsshayАй бұрын
This is so beautifully insightful and clear. Haviv at his best.
@pfl93116 ай бұрын
So powerful, and revealing, about the nature and consequence of freedom. His storytelling generates perspective. Biblical, in a way.
@SuperMCFIVE9 ай бұрын
Another Midwestern town with an opera, Kansas City (Lyric Opera). A good book about KC Jewish history is "Roots in a moving stream: The centennial history of Congregation B'nai Jehudah of Kansas City, 1870-1970" by Frank Adler. The book speaks about the relationship between the German (came primarily in the mid-1800s as he says) and Russian (came primarily in the late 1800s and early 1900s) Jewish communities of Kansas City.
@Net_Willis8 ай бұрын
As an Israeli I can totally see my family's history in this lecture. Fisrt time I leaned about the Jewish- American history though and frankly - very moving.
@krillr_prawn8 ай бұрын
Impressive lecture and energetic delivery. Love this.
@Xestra374905 ай бұрын
I wish sometimes I have blankets to cover and protect all Jews. This makes me cry but also hopeful on the resilience of Jewish people. 🙏🏼❤️🇮🇱
@QldTechie9 ай бұрын
I'm so glad my great grandparents escaped from there to eastern Australia 🌏, which is where I am.
@theunboundDragon8 ай бұрын
Not all Israelis are refugees. My family for example, immigrated from Europe to South America, where both my parents were born. They had a very good and comfortable life there but decided to make Aliya (immigrated) to Israel about 50 years ago for Ideological reasons. They were offered to go to the U.S. and had refused. I'm glad they did 😊
@dudah49068 ай бұрын
I owe an abiding debt of gratitude to my forebears for having the guts, initiative, risk taking attitude to flee Eastern Europe for the States.
@marknaj30268 ай бұрын
@theunboundDragon what an effing evil ideology
@sandy-jn5rd7 ай бұрын
@@theunboundDragonlol tou aren’t helping 😅
@YG-kk4ey9 ай бұрын
Powerful ending. Never really thought about that.
@abdullahrazzouk9527Ай бұрын
I am Syrian and I enjoyed this. Thank you :)
@rachfrank7 ай бұрын
This is fascinating, especially as a British jew whose family have mostly been in Britian since the Spanish Inquisition. I listened to part 2 fist but it's been well worth coming back to find part 1. Thanks Haviv ❤️
@odettemasliyah81749 ай бұрын
Wonderful part of the Jewish History well done. What I don’t understand is why the history of the Jews of the Middle East was omitted from this lecture. It is an important piece that add to the Holocaust and Israel’s history . These Jews also faced pogroms and in fact were exiled and their property confiscated simply because they were Jews Appreciate Mr Gur’s response
@ronshatzmiller36839 ай бұрын
True -- he needs to do another lecture. And these jews are now > 50% of ISrael's poopulation. AS an ashkenazi israel-born jew I'm ashamed to say we dominate the narrative.
@smarinay8 ай бұрын
It's not omitted. There's a graph showing the percentage of Arab jews of the Aliyot in different years 27:30, and he talks about it for a few minutes
@theunboundDragon8 ай бұрын
He mentioned they also suffered but doesn't really elaborate. You're right that a lot more can be said about it. There are other videos specifically about this topic (not by Haviv)
@connie.228 ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure he had a scheduled time, seems he was mostly talking to american Jews, he didn't mention the more recent Russian immigration or the Ethiopian at all.
@SarahJones-kp9bq7 ай бұрын
I love his final statement...absolute truth. You could apply that to many many situations 🙌
@danielgoldberg92319 ай бұрын
Where are the rest of these
@Jimo19568 ай бұрын
You can find it on the channel of the Shalem College or on KZbin under "The Great Misinterpretation." It posted 2 weeks ago. Just as good as this one, actually even better IMHO. These students can count themselves very lucky to have been able to experience these lectures and visit Israel.
@danielschwartz5169 ай бұрын
Wow spot on. I think the Israelis though have learned "the jewish lesson" all the way through to its very bitter end, while the American jews (who didn't expirence the holocost) didnt.. their "luck" of finding America is now proving to be temporary.
@whazzat80158 ай бұрын
Everybody's luck in finding America is proving to be temporary
@marknaj30268 ай бұрын
So the Holocaust lesson is to go and displace another people.
@xp75757 ай бұрын
@@marknaj3026 nope
@brynawaldman57909 ай бұрын
I want to add; there's a connection between American Jewish culture & African American culture he didn't explore. (This isn't a criticism. You can't cover everything in a lecture & the lecture emphasizes the differences between Israeli Jews & American Jews.). The connection is, ironically, religious. It is that African American Christianity shines a light on Moses because he freed the slaves. No other Christian community holds Moses so high. Also, despite the differences in style & melody, song & dance are essential in African American churches, & essential in Orthodox Jewish practices . . . .
@LOPEKJJJ9 ай бұрын
How are song and dance essential in Jewish orthodox rituals? Most cultures have been influenced by Israel and its Torah. So there’s a connection between the Jewish people and Black Americans, as well as to white Christians, Arabs, Europeans, Russian orthodox Christians, Latinos, etc.
@brynawaldman57909 ай бұрын
@@LOPEKJJJHave you seen all the clips of IDF soldiers dancing? You can also find lots of clips of religious Jews dancing. And you might want to check out the rap music of Orthodox Jewish Nissim Black. He is cool.
@whazzat80158 ай бұрын
Oddly , Reform Jews go long into Presbyterian choral music and white bread folk songs , too. Must be that opera influence
@deskset74367 ай бұрын
Most Jews fleeing Eastern Europe from 1880 to 1920 understood immediately what racism meant in America. It meant exactly what they just left. They knew it was wrong and they sympathized, even as they were also glad that for once they were not the target. Bring classified as white - as part of a majority group - was the biggest ironic joke any Eastern European Jew could possibly have experienced. For this reason, American Jews have - until very recently - been the least attached to white identity of any white immigrants. I’m not saying we aren’t attached - everyone offered full citizenship takes that offer - just that we understood immediately that America was confused and thought we were a protected religion instead of a hated ethno nationalist group. And those who were paying close attention understood that Jews could only be part of the “majority” because someone else had taken our usual place as the “minority”.
@henri-09 ай бұрын
Are the following lectured available?
@SuperMCFIVE9 ай бұрын
This came out a few days ago in YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
@whazzat80158 ай бұрын
@@SuperMCFIVE And I thought that one was great. Wow
@henri-08 ай бұрын
@@SuperMCFIVEThanks. These took place a while a go I think. They're spacing them out.
@theunboundDragon8 ай бұрын
A great lecture Haviv. Thank you so much. The second part is really good too
@transformationscircle6 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for this lecture! So profound, authentic, insightful and detailed. Blessings to Israel - may it continue to be a safe homeland for the Jews 🙏
@suescheuer50899 ай бұрын
Thanks Professor.
@thomashertzberger71247 ай бұрын
So George Washington basically says, don't worry, we're not an ethno-nationalist state, our nation is inclusive of those present in the territory. The irony is not lost on me. Great talk! Haviv is a natural publioc speaker.
@BS-jw7nf6 ай бұрын
I do like these lectures of Haviv and I believe he has some very good insights on both the Palestian and Israeli historical point of view. Especially his lecture on the palestian’s misunderstanding I found to be very insightful. However one point I do take some issue with is his insistence on presenting the Zionist movement as a rescue mission. While I believe that the Jews who went there in the early days and up until at least the 50-60s can be classified as such, what the Israeli project has turned into today cannot be seen in such a generous light. As it exists now, it does clearly present signs of a colonial project and it does actively try to undermine Palestinian existence. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people and understand why they want to have a homeland, but I feel that uncritically conflating the the reasons of the past with the actions of today is intellectually dishonest and primarily serves to wash the consciousness of it’s people. I hope haviv keeps doing these great lectures, I still feel that their core message is still very strong and should be heard by more.
@kathrinscharrer3923Ай бұрын
@@le_rayon_vertOn september 8th there were discussions on German TV about sending fighter jets to help patrol Israel's borders ( Germany has a defense treaty with Israel since 1952, for very obvious reasons). The reason why settlers are a problem is that it not only means Israel wants more land ( which it does not need, true victory is the life you build for your children and they turned the desert into gold and created the only democracy in the region) but it creates a legal issue that prevents Israel's allies from protecting Israel. Even if I understand why Israelis think they are alone and have always been alone, I think it a good idea to try to not be alone and prove your enemies wrong and your allies right.
@kathrinscharrer3923Ай бұрын
@@le_rayon_vert I agree with you 100%. As a German living in Spain I had to leave the ( not at all radical) social democratic party because nobody is willing or able to critizise Israeli government without questioning Israel's right to exist. Nobody knows what Farhud of Bagdad is or when it happened, nobody talks about jews in the arab world and so forth. Sprinkled with cristal clear antisemitism ( " these jews are all....") and holocaust comparisons ( as a German I had to learn that starting a war and getting bombed and occupied and so on is NOT a holocaust, but hey, apparently people can say whatever they want, in Spain that is, not in Germany). When I asked them where their jews were they said it did not matter because all that was 500 years ago. The protests are a desaster: one side marching against the state of Israel in this postcolonial fantasy thing that makes everything easy for the left. Pro Israel demonstrations full of Spanish far right leaders who suddenly love jews because they have an agenda against muslim inmigrants. The only worthwile event I attended was a discussion between Ehud Olmert and a former palestinian foreign affairs minister who are touring Europe with a peace plan based on the 2008 peace plan. But most of what surrounds me is a horrible football match that causes me great despair.
@kathrinscharrer3923Ай бұрын
@@le_rayon_vert And you are spot on about this " apartheid" nonsense, people refuse to acknowledge that arab israelis exist andvthat they are the same people as palestinians. I have met some, and especially women were very happy to be Israelis.
@PRO-Alan8 ай бұрын
In 1938, the Philippine Commonwealth was willing to grant 15,000 visas to German Jews. However, since they had to travel via Siberia only 1,500 made it. After the war most were able to go to America.
@jackson767247 ай бұрын
Glad this appeared in my KZbin. Brilliant
@mariannascanlon80319 ай бұрын
Wow, what an incredible lecture, no bs
@chrisbattenevolutionisalie46239 ай бұрын
I am blessed to listen, I appreciate your deep insights thank you - so much to learn about The Global Empire Problem , to make the world a better place we need Israel and God who is protecting you - even from uttermost parts of the sea NZ thanks again
@peterhorn77719 ай бұрын
highly appreciated, thank you
@roundedges25 ай бұрын
Bro this guy goes DEEP into (modern) Jewish history
@sivanboodnero8 ай бұрын
So perfectly put. We are Israelis and we won’t explain to anyone why we are here. We will never ask for anyone’s permission to be. We are and will always be 🇮🇱
@sandy-jn5rd7 ай бұрын
comments like this makes me wanna go back cheering the other side. we are all hurting. yeah yeah i know. sorry. shalom.
@diandenmark9 ай бұрын
What an amazing, deep, enlightening, nuanced history. But, please, what about this: Some Palestinians and their supporters know full well that Israelis are to a huge degree refugees - and they say: WHY do they have to seek refuge HERE? Why is everyone (including other Middle Eastern countries) asking the people of the Western part of the Mandate for Palestine to "pay the price" for everyone else's destructive behavior by accepting the "refuse" rejected by everybody else? I will listen to "The Great Misinterpretation" and if I hear something about this, I will return to this comment and add the insight.
@MaryamofShomal9 ай бұрын
Dude, most of the Arabs that call themselves “Palestinians” are not even native to the land. Their forebears came to the Mandate from surrounding countries, such as Egypt, once the British arrived in the 1920s. They’re basically just squatter-terrorists. Or terrorist-squatters.
@t.birmingham26689 ай бұрын
Please, spar us.
@whazzat80158 ай бұрын
Hey, spawn of Neanderthals. We migrate. Get over it
@eligaerman68278 ай бұрын
Because it's our ancient homeland, it's the place jews are indigenous to, where we became a nation. There were also non stop Jewish communities there for thousands of years, so the Jews were essentially joining the other Jews that were already there
@deskset74367 ай бұрын
I think the most honest answer is that they have a point and it wasn’t their job to accept Jewish refugees. But Jews are a Semitic people and TBH the longer Israel exists, the most Semitic Israeli and all Jews worldwide have become. I think you can recognize that the Palestinians experienced a historic injustice and tremendous loss and also that most Jews would never have arrived there unless they were fleeing for their lives. Now both people have experienced dispossession and loss and in theory that can create more understanding rather than more hatred IF they are willing to take seriously the others experience.
@ennojonsson34697 ай бұрын
Imteresting points to understand the importance of refugees in Israeli society
@amikap8 ай бұрын
Brilliant, you just explained my existence to myself.
The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur
@k_o_r_a_y5 ай бұрын
Very good lecture, speaking of which, somebody was talking about “voluntary migration” recently. Who was that?
@charlesguez46328 ай бұрын
Magisterial presentation. Very erudite! Very complete! Very historical! A MAJOR ACHIEVEMENT! kol ha kavod.Nifla.
@lisaschuster6868 ай бұрын
Mr. Gur, I can explain it in one simple story - the role of the Jews in the American mind. I grew up in New England believing that half of all Americans were Jews. Half of my friends, boyfriends and ancestors were Jewish after all. But a strange dilemma interrupted my peace of mind when I finally encountered a critically important character in history who had not been part of the Anglosphere, and whose name was therefore unknown to me despite an absurdly expensive, expansive education: the Father of Human Rights, the Spaniard Bartolomé de Las Casas. He was a friar who crossed the Atlantic 14 times to persuade the Pope that American Indians were human beings, a profoundly crucial and successful mission with repercussions to this day. But something was wrong. A person driven to protect these unheard of new people in an unimagined new world unknown to the Greeks or the Hebrews … HAD to have been Jewish, which a friar is not by definition. Yet he had taken on the esoteric and liberal role of a Jew, not a friar, which I found oddly disturbing. The story had to be wrong or all those decades of understanding the world I’d embarked on had disclosed a whopping exception. There was nothing to do but read past it. But what a relief to find, some two years later, that Las Casas had come (of course!) from a family of conversos - Jews who had converted to remain in Spain. I could make a private peace with a troublesome episode of history. My world, and the roles various peoples had been chosen to play in it, was allowed to resume its orbit around the sun.
@neological95 ай бұрын
Your worldview was threatened by the possibility that one admirable figure in history might not be Jewish? Very weird comment
@Inmyowndamnwords7 ай бұрын
Ya shar koiach. What a great lecture. I hope I get to meet you one day.
@bozodeniro8 ай бұрын
To express my approval of Haviv Rettig Gur, I'll have to quote one of the most well-known musical entertainers with the thickest German accent possible who was always fond of saying "ONERFUL, ONERFUL"🙃
@emameyer6 ай бұрын
36:50 that kid's eyebrows rising says it all
@Jimo19568 ай бұрын
Got a question: When for example the US Quota Act from 1924 would limit Jewish immigrants to enter the US, would that also apply to let's say a British Jewish family wanting to immigrate from the UK to the US? Or only for the Jews fleeing from Eastern Europe. Thank you. BTW: Thank you for the effort and letting the rest of the world participate in this learning experience. Fantastic lecture. Learned so much. Watched Part 2 ("The Great Misinterpretation") also. Just as good.
@deskset74367 ай бұрын
It didn’t apply to Western Europe but the vast majority of Jews fleeing persecution were in Eastern Europe.
@davidglosser630125 күн бұрын
The 1924 law was established to appease the fears and prejudices of the self proclaimed "America First" groups of the day. They were crafted to limit immigration from various regions and countries that were full of Greeks, Sicilians, Italians, Eastern Europeans and Russian Empire subjects; most of whom were Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Christians. In that way they limited the Jews, and the desperate souls of other faiths who were not white Protestants. Earlier US immigration laws were not so troubled by the appearance of racial insensitivity and named the "Chinese Exclusion Act" more clearly and brutally. No less horribly, the wretched remnants of the Jewish holocaust were also refused entry to the US for the most part; despite the fact that many of them had sponsoring US citizen relatives here already. US immigration policy has seldom represented what Lincoln encouraged us to seek..."...the better angels of our nature". The more things change...well, you know the rest. We're living it now.
@Nitzpitz7 ай бұрын
That is a great lecture! I have learned a lot! And that is coming from an Israeli in the diaspora (Europe) that has written her master thesis on Jewish identity in America . Well done. Will certainly share this
@MauriceClingempeel9 ай бұрын
Oct 7th 2023 never forget
@bbasaid69048 ай бұрын
The Palestinian People have been suffering from zionist terrorists for nearly 100 years !! It's time to give back Palestine to its people
@Tas22708 ай бұрын
Of course not because it will change the course of history and global politics. I disagree that he thinks Palestinians are unaware of Israelis as refugees. The concept of insane is fundamental part of Muslims faith, however Israeli IdF applying Christian thinking and firming up nationalistic identities (all the things that they resented) is the problem. They are not coming up the “final solution” they want their land back and why should they be apologetic? They have a moral and just ask. If we deny it then we are playing into hierarchy of victimhood. For all the folks listening to lectures here would be great for them to learn the global history in the 1800 of the world to understand that everyone was screwed who wasn’t a Christian European.
@gregorysheindlin22968 ай бұрын
Gur doesn't care about October 7th. He still advocates for the Palestinian state.
@margaretlouis51723 ай бұрын
What an excellent, clear and authentic portrayal of the Jewish dilemma !
@hhoh81468 ай бұрын
36:52 that made me cry and I am not even jewish
@brendalandes18138 ай бұрын
As an Israeli who came-to Israel from Wales, U K in 1965. My Husband is an Israeli kibbutznik I really appreciate this lecture. Everyone should come here . We need more young Americans to make Israel stronger.
@GA-sn1hn8 ай бұрын
Today you would have to be religious to come. I know many who tried, it just didn’t work for them. I know people who were talked out of it by their Israeli relatives.
@Net_Willis8 ай бұрын
@@GA-sn1hn I am an Israeli and my wife and kids have an American citizenship. After 7.10 she was willing to consider us moving there, but when all the college antisemitism rose, it seemed harder to decide which country if safer for our kids.
@manmohanmehta56978 ай бұрын
A great lecture delivered with passion. History has to be read on a broad scale with unbiased points of views. I am keen to know books by the lecturer as well as of Rashid Khalidi ,Miko paled On the whole very very stimulating delivery. Let us all be kind despite all.I t is most creative period of age .Do your things.
@MsSme1238 ай бұрын
Very gifted teacher…
@peredaviАй бұрын
Excellent lecture. Thank you from Wyoming.
@rusiatelali88988 ай бұрын
❤❤❤thank you 4that and big 🙏 from Fiji
@rkdb998 ай бұрын
Incredible, powerful lecture. THANK YOU Haviv.
@salguodm7 ай бұрын
Mel Brooks I think that he meant 200 years not 2000 years?
@richardpage73238 ай бұрын
by starting in 1881 you left out almost 200 years of Sephardic Jewish history in America from Abraham Judah in Rhode Island, Franks and Isaacs in Philadelphia, to Henry Yulee from Morocco to HaLevi in 1698 Delaware. This is primarily a Russian Jewish history, but its very good. Do you think those Jews migrating from Russia would be in America without the well established and historic Sephardic population?
@LOPEKJJJ7 ай бұрын
He left that history out because it doesn’t serve his thesis to explain why Americans Jews are so liberal. It ignores the sefardic jews that first settled America and people like Judah P Benjamin who owned slaves and was the number 2 man in the confederacy.
@gorans66028 ай бұрын
Thank you tor this great lecture. I have been wondering about when the Arab pogroms where carried out and how many Jews fled to Israel. The Aliyah changes graph was more comprehensive than the figures i managed to find googling.
@LeslieRockenbach5 күн бұрын
Thank you for this. So moving.
@marmohad8 ай бұрын
What a scholar! Thank you!
@cecilepham73572 ай бұрын
Herzl wrote in his diary at the end of the 19th century that the Jewish goal is to do discret ethnic cleansing in Palestine but discret ethnic cleansing was only short lived. As soon as 1948, ethnic cleansing was practiced in the open. I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation.
@tatonemio63882 ай бұрын
Here the problem that antisemites like you always miss: 1) Hertz never used the words "ethnic cleansing " 2) a diary is not a political program 3) Hertz died in 1904 , 44 years before Israel existed , so he had no involvement in any actual plan 4) there was no ethnic cleansing in 1948 , you are talking about the fact the Arabs started a war to destroy Israel but they lost the war. Some Arabs that were involved directly in the conflict were expelled from Israel. Today there are 2 million Arabs living in Israel as citizen...so much for the "ethnic cleansing " you: "I am just an Asian Catholic American with independent observation." And an antisemite despite Jesus was a Jew because His Father so decided. Next time before spreading lies and hatred read your Bible and see if you are on the "same page" as your God.
@MoeMa42 ай бұрын
@@tatonemio6388☝️ Hasbara fabrications and misinformation
@tatonemio63882 ай бұрын
@@MoeMa4 says the demented racist troll
@lebojay7 ай бұрын
26:49 “America closes its doors to the Jews even as Europe is getting worse.” Canada too. My country also let down the Jewish people in exactly the same way. Canadian soldiers fought valiantly to liberate European Jews, but Canada still didn’t want them.
@SarahJones-kp9bq7 ай бұрын
Why though...???
@Jacobsoetsrto32114 ай бұрын
@@SarahJones-kp9bq because white hate jew maybe? Thats why we liberal should take all white country by make the white becoming minorities
@lennyrashkovsky47258 ай бұрын
What a brilliant speaker. Thank you for your great presentation.
@margaritabentov3048 ай бұрын
This lecture was amazing. Wow!
@iuvalclejan8 ай бұрын
What Herzl didn't realize is that modernism (or is it capitalism?) will eventually also destroy national identities, not just familial, clannish village, and tribal ones. And now it seems to be destroying even integrated individuals (with the attention economy). National identities seem to be able to be maintained only through common enemies and collective crises. Both Palestinians and Israelis could benefit from the restoration of these levels of organization. The Palestinians need villages. not a sprawling metropolis. And the Israelis need to rehabilitate their Kibbutzim, but not as socialist enterprises.
@yonibronstein35039 ай бұрын
I think he’s absolutely right
@paulheydarian12819 ай бұрын
No one is absolutely anything, much less being right. Whatever being right means. There aren't any absolutes in real life.
@sobeit28428 ай бұрын
My great grandparents caught the boat to america. I'm glad they did. Not until Prof. Gur's very last gesture, did it occur to me that his lecture took a lot of energy and emotion to deliver. Great lecturer. So, I already saw the "Palestinians" lecture, and just watched this lecture on the Jews. I suppose Mr. Gur hopes that if enough folks become educated on who the Jews really are, and who the Palestinians really are, and enough of them dispel the falsehoods that they currently believe about themselves and the "Other", that they will be able to settle with each other. It would be good to be educated in a history that's based in fact, not myth, but I'm not sure there is any precedence for that in history bringing peace. What we do have, however, is the fact there are 2M Arabs living peacably inside Israel, and Israel has been recognized by some arab states, and there has been no war with these states since recognition. So, I can see a certain series of actions ending in a peaceful settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel annexes the West Bank and offers citizenship to its Arab inhabitants pending, as it did for Israeli Arabs, successfully completing a probationary period and then pledge allegiance to the state, same as most states require of immigrants. UNRWA is foreclosed. It's operations taken over by UNHRWA, the UN agency which has handled 200M refugees for planet Earth over the last 74 years, all but for the Palestinians. Now, the Palestinians would be treated same as all other Earthlings. Tbey would be settled. Some, would be repatriated to Israel; they would be screened and given the same opportunity to become citizens as West Bank Arabs. Most, though, would be settled either in their present host countries, or in other countries. It would simply have to be done. Would there be risks, casualties, for Israel? Yes, but I think the Israeli's would agree it would be worth it, and they would defend, mostly successfully, against saboteurs accepted into Greater Israel. Do I have a plan for how annexation would be accepted by the world? No. But as Mr. Gur pointed out, Israeli's don't ask for permission. There would have to be an arrangement, whereby the Al Aqsa Mosque was primarily administered by Islamists, possibly a committee representing several Arab states as well as Israeli Arabs, and the Palestinians newly added into the Israeli state. Maybe something on the order of the Vatican in Rome. Hateful anti-Israel, and anti-semitic education would not be allowed any longer for Palestinian children. I think we could rely on Mr. Gur, heading a committee of Israeli and Palestinian historans, to come up with school texts that all schools, whether Jewish, Arab, or other would use regarding the history of these Peoples and of Israel and Palestine. It wouldn't sugarcoat or ignore the crimes, pain, or errors of any of the players. But, it would provide context and it would be, as far as possible, based in fact. I don't think the most influential Arab nations today are so concerned about a Palestinian state. I don't think they believe it's necessary to create that state to resolve the problem, and it's the problem that they want solved, not the state. They are not that keen on the creation of a tiny, deranged, and imperfectly defanged Arab state that will continue to war on Israel when it can. That will be hardly any better, and could be much worse, than the Palestinian situation today. Mostly, they want the problem solved so that it doesn't threaten their interests or their security. They would really rather work with the Israeli's on security, stability and prosperity for the Sunni region I think this could work. ,
@ingairen217 ай бұрын
Thank you for that, I have never read the “one state solution” expressed like that.
@silentmary75 ай бұрын
History is important.
@stephenoconnell76367 ай бұрын
Enlightening. Thank you!
@shirleyr47068 ай бұрын
We’re the Jews who don’t justify themselves and their existence. I had the same conversation with a reform rabbi…
@rosemarysmall51037 ай бұрын
I was moved to tears. 💛
@aditiraja95888 ай бұрын
Why did Alexander the third start this is not made clear
@ArtU4All8 ай бұрын
Because this lecture is not about what preceded but about the outcomes of his policies. Today, looking back at Hitler’s Germany, antisemitism was normalized, quickly devolving to Holocaust. Today, tolerance of the “from the river to the sea” on campuses, the streets and the media can quickly morph again into a holocaust2.0. Antisemitism is a litmus test/canary for atrocities yet to come if not nipped in the bud. Actually, the attacks on individuals already took place.
@theunboundDragon8 ай бұрын
He blamed the Jews for his Father's assassination, and also was extremely Anti Semitic
@wouldnt_you_like_to_know6 ай бұрын
Can someone elaborate why were the jews unwanted ? I like the presentation but this is a crucial question that ought to be answered.
Black hand is the name of the group whose killed Franz Ferdinand in 1914 (sorry, i know my english is so bad)
@SarahJones-kp9bq7 ай бұрын
Isn't that what triggered World war1??
@fdognini8 ай бұрын
Yes, an invaluable lecture on the history of Israel. Thank you
@LOPEKJJJ9 ай бұрын
Gur makes a beautiful presentation but I think he’s wrong about American Jewish identity and Israeli identity. Jews do a wonderful job of absorbing the foreign cultures where they live. The Jews that immigrated to the USA in the late 19th and earlier 20th century were coming from Russia and Eastern Europe where socialism was a heavy influence. That’s why those American Jews embraced radical liberalism and continued in that direction in the USA. Contrast those Jews to the Jews that were in America before 1776 and those that arrived before the wave of Eastern European immigration. Those Jews weren’t radically liberal and their politics split based on where they lived. For example, during the antebellum period southern Jews had slaves and many Jews fought in the confederacy. The confederacy’s #2 man was a brilliant Jew, Judah P Benjamin, who owned slaves and masterfully articulated the South’s case. Gur is also wrong on Israeli identity. Even though persecution is what motivated most (but not all) immigration to Palestine, it did not form the core of Jewish identity. If refugee consciousness and feeling unwanted was the real core of Jewish identity then the Jews of Europe would have happily accepted Uganda. But it was the Jews persecuted the most, from Russia and Eastern Europe that revolted against that idea and insisted on Palestine. Why? Because deeper than the pogrom experience and antisemitism has been the thousand year old aspiration to rebuild Hebrew civilization in the land of Israel. To rebuild Jerusalem and to restore a Jewish kingdom in the land of their ancestors. These drivers are the real core of Jewish identity. It’s what’s sustained Jewish identity for thousands of years and fueled the return to Palestine, from the original pioneers that were motivated to revive the land to make it hospitable for the masses that followed, to the persecuted masses that felt an innate spiritual and mystical pull to this place.
@patriciablue27399 ай бұрын
Agreed
@Historian2129 ай бұрын
Simplistic. My great-grandparents came to the US from eastern Europe. Not a single one was socialist. But in the US they were liberal and voted for Democrats. For just the type of reason he said.