The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

This program was made possible by the Asper Center for Zionist Education at Shalem College which provides an academic platform for meaningful engagement with Zionist ideas and history. Learn more at: rb.gy/ly5cdr
This lecture was delivered in January 2024 at the Shalem College Fear No Evil Study and Solidarity Mission, a program which brought 36 North American college students to Israel for a 10-day intensive learning experience.

[@LaSmoocherina]

I’m a non-Jew progressive American and this is the lecture I’ve needed but never knew it. Not just because of your stories, but how it makes me look at my own. Thank you. ❤

[@iskinder008]

As a non-Jew, I sure appreciated this well-delivered and interesting lecture. Thank you.

[@lebojay]

I’m a Jew and I liked it too!

[@user-fv2ly7oe9l]

If an immigrant population violently takes over their hosts' land, are they still immigrants? Or are they colonists?

[@n9mone]

@@user-fv2ly7oe9l oh like in the united states?

[@JAPRYDER]

@@user-fv2ly7oe9l Australia?

[@TheCaniblcat]

@@lebojay Same. As a Jew who moved to Israel 17 years ago, I didn't know much of this. Very educational.

[@ralphjohnson3396]

"If you don't understand why the other side isn't stupid, you haven't done your homework." This is a great quote, and a lesson that a lot of people ought to learn.

[@asurvila]

Stupidity was not defined.

[@CarsInDimension]

If you don't recognize that the other side can be irrational you're not living in the real world.

[@SpencerMack]

🙏🙏

[@joge2468]

This is similar to the philosopher’s credo that you allow your opponent the best possible interpretation of his argument. Then you crush him. Lol.

[@naomiharbour7841]

@@CarsInDimension If marriage consultants would follow your premise they would constantly fail. If you want to solve a conflict, you don't refer to "rationality", but needs and wishes.

[@Lancet75]

Excellent lecture. Having said that, the British defense of El-Alamein wasn't primarily intended to protect the Jews of Palestine but to protect the land route to India, where the Nazis had many sympathizers among the independentists (including Gandhi). The protection of Palestine's Jews was a side effect of this mission.

[@user-ts7ih8rv7k]

they definitly didnt do it for us. its a byproduct , a happy byproduct where otherwise the story of israel would have not existing even if the nazi still ended up losing ww2.

[@jillfryer6699]

Evidence? Or are we just supposed to take your word, eg: re Gandhi, because you have a handle to make it sound like you're a doctor?

[@Lancet75]

@@jillfryer6699 If you want an answer, use a less hostile tone. The information I refer to belongs to history and is freely available.

[@Lancet75]

@@jillfryer6699 Gandhi: "Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.... Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home." Mahatma Gandhi on Zionism and the Holocaust by Dusty Sklar, JewishCurrents, March 19, 2016

[@dianehghzn7670]

I was allways under the impression that all Gandhi wanted was independence from G Brittain thats all and achieve a non violent way of living with not eating meat of any kind and using a fibre for weaving which was and still is an Indian natural fibre which ordenary poor people of India to make their own clothes and also by doing so undermine brittish weaving industries which were flooding the markets in india and becoming increasingly Inexcessible for the poor and Gandhi also realised by doing or achieving that goal would weaken englands hold on India and thereby easier to finnally get the brttish or push the British out of India and undermining the Brittish elites and their control over India and he did that and it cost him his life So i wouldnt talk about Gandhi so flippantly if i were you especially the constant fasting that he undertook and being dragged into prison god knows how many times and not to forget that march to collect salt with many supporters and so much more that that Saint of India did only to be betrayed by an mentally disturbed man unfortunately to be shot and died but the whole of india mourned and revered him up to today maybe not as much but there are still temples where anybody can go to pray and honour Gandhi and still has a following of loyalty for him and none of us should forget Gandhi for the sacrifices he made for his country and his achievements no matter what your belief systems are its the human spirit that prevails ( and that’s something that the jewish people have embodied. And the arabs can’t stomach or stand no matter the history or right or wrong of things The strength that the jews possess is not only military but simply not giving up like what happened during the holocaust not just October 7 th thats why the Muslim arabs wont win period !!!!! Thankyou for your provocative reply 💟☸️☮️🕉️🌹⭐️🍀🌈🌈☔️☔️🇦🇺🇦🇺🦘🦘🌻🌸🥰🙏🙏🙏💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙

[@firthm2]

As a foreigner who has lived and volunteered in the Palestinian city of Nablus, and also travelled to many other parts of the West Bank and Israel to visit Jewish, Muslim, Christian, and nonreligious friends, I am inspired by the idea offered at the end of this lecture about shifting perspectives on the conflict from a hateful zero-sum game to a tragic conflict with a possible solution. Recognizing valid points, grievances, and aspirations on both sides, with various forms of justice and injustice, and a willingness to compromise, and the recognition of mutual humanity and indeed numerous cultural, linguistic, religious, and historical overlap, then open, compassionate, and well-informed dialogue could actually lead to peace. It gives me a glimmer of hope when there is so little right now. Thanks for this knowledgeable, incisive, thought-provoking, balanced, and entertaining lecture.

[@lebojay]

Too many people on both sides WANT it to be a zero-sum game. Hurting the other side is half the point.

[@oremfrien]

I struggle with how the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict could be re-evaluated as a search for more justice in the other’s paradigm. Dr. King noticed that White America conceptually believed in equality for all citizens but practically did not implement that, creating an argument that he could use to say, “Do you really believe in the equality you say is the basis of the US governmental system?” The fundamental purpose of Israel is to create Jewish self-government and the fundamental purpose of Palestine is to expel the invaders. The great justice of Israel is the success of Jews willing to create a homeland and the great justice of Palestine is restoring Arab Muslim governance and expulsion of foreign elements. These are irreconcilable visions.

[@txdmsk]

That will never happen because violence and hatred are the core of islam.

[@ShamAmram]

The truth is there has always been a strong will compromise within Israel and the design is psyche. There is no Will for compromise amongst the Palestinian Arab population or leadership with the exception of a few individuals who have no voice or influence in that society. Be honest about that.

[@joannquaid6037]

😢​@@ShamAmram

[@matthaze9765]

Great breakdown of history and understanding. I did a ton of research the last 4 months, and this still managed to bring a few very new perspectives I hadn't taken into account or heard anyone mention yet! Thank you. We all need this.

[@Bell_plejdo568p]

No it isn’t it just propaganda

[@user-yz2pp9uu8f]

Great? Really? He literally spoke about literally everything except the problem: colonialism.

[@21CENTURYLIVE]

I’m sorry but I don’t share your enthusiasm for this lecture… Arabs will latch onto any facts to promote their agenda

[@smarinay]

He spoke in lengthy about colonialism, you chose not to here because it doesn't suit your agenda. The whole lecture is about colonialism and its relationship to the establishment of the state of Israel ​@user-yz2pp9uu8f

[@alirohani2687]

@@smarinay I feel like he played a trick. A very convincing one at that. His thesis is that the Arabs are wrong (with good reason he concedes) to look at zionism as a colonial project. He frames zionism and Israels existence and founding a refugee problem. Folks fleeing persecution. He mentions that it can't be colonialism because the colonial backers seemed to change so much. British, Soviet, American. He tries to say oh since the Israelis aren't all from one country it can't be colonialism they don't serve a master. But if he was being truly honest with himself he would have tackled the elephant in the room which very few zionist want to do and that is to justify refugees colonizing (taking by force others land and making it their own country I D C what you want to call it) Taking land of other people and turning them into refugees. Having said all that I still found it an interesting lecture. I just dont have that large of a blindspot to ignore what really happened on the ground to the average person. They got robbed. That's why they dont like you. It's that simple. All of these academics are jumping through hoops trying to find some way to justify and injustice.

[@emileblanche5868]

This guy makes me want to go back to college.

[@mdarrenu]

You know this guy might not be able to speak at those Ivy-Leagues any more.

[@emileblanche5868]

@@mdarrenu Stanford, UCLA, and many other universities are not Ivy League.

[@fractalmadness9253]

UTube

[@serpentines6356]

​@@fractalmadness9253 "UTube College"...😅

[@phyllisbarr4766]

to argue with the professors? that would and could be the only reason, you won't learn anything from 80% of the teachers

[@richardmullins44]

(clipped from Naomi Klein's book). Hitler claimed it was now Germany’s turn to engage in cleansings and mass relocations on its own frontier. “There is only one task: To set about the Germanization of the land by bringing in Germans and to regard the indigenous inhabitants as Indians,” Hitler said in 1941.

[@bananamiriam]

Awwww man! I have such deep respect for you Haviv. Your are intelligent, erudite, passionate. I wish every University student in the WORLD could hear you speak 🔥

[@mznxbcv12345]

On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%" -Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well' -Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband' Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023: 2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440. 2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255. 2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492. 2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300. 2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138. 2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30. 2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349. 2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191. 2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227. civilian deaths on the other side - 2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9 2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26 Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel. Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan. They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.

[@alnon6304]

Say that again. 😅😅, all rubish.

[@bananamiriam]

@@alnon6304 tautoko that! 💙

[@nonenone5413]

I wish every Uni student in the world could hear the famous scholar Prof. Nadera of Hebrew University speak, but the Israelis arrested her and are persecuting her for her academic work, so nobody can hear her.

[@nonenone5413]

@@alnon6304 prove it

[@Ozgipsy]

This was outstanding. I knew a lot of the separate events but hadn’t seen them all in context happening sequentially. I really enjoyed that.👍

[@victoriakozlovsky3550]

If you can, read Exodus by Leon Uris. He does a great job weaving all the historic facts into a novel.

[@mznxbcv12345]

On the 7th, it is crucial to understand that there were no direct attacks on civilians, only collateral damage. Out of the 1148 total names on haaret dataset, 473 military and 675 were civilians. Ratio of civilians to military personnel killed on the 7th was 1 . 4 : 1 - lower than any of the iTf "mowing" operations, which has a ratio of 7 : 1 According to UN OCHA data from 2008 to 2022; The collateral damage on the 7th was significantly lower than any of the ITf "mowing" operations, which had a ratio of 7:1 with 1,023 military personnel out of 6,541 total. On the 7th, with 473 military (418 were iTf military personnel, 55 belonged to the police) out of 1148 total, the ratio of civilians to military personnel was a mere 1.4:1 When including all casualties, not just deaths, the collateral damage ratio of the "mowing" operations is a staggering 162:1 From the 161,233 accumulated civilian casualties over only 14 years of "mowing" operations. A 162 :1 ratio means that for every 162 civillians, 1 military personnel is a casualty. The 7th had a ratio of 1.4:1, more than a hundred times lower. The 473 are - 55 soldiers, 13 privates, 59 corporals, 200 sergeants (45 of whom were sergeant majors), 48 commanders, 32 lieutenants, 5 lieutenant colonels, 6 colonels, 37 officers, 10 inspectors, 6 intendents, and 2 Lance Corp. This was a military defeat, and they are taking it out on the rest. The reported ages of the victims are as follows: 0-4: 2 civilians 5-12: 8 civilians 13-17: 14 civilians 18-25: 132 civilians 26-40: 119 civilians 41-60: 55 civilians 61+: 40 civilians Active duty military personnel: 18-25: 258 active duty military personnel 26-40: 60 active duty military personnel 41-60: 17 active duty military personnel 61+: 1 active duty military personnel haaretz datasheet titled title: xsraxl's Dead: The Names of Those Killed in Hxmxs Attacks, Mxssxcres and the xsrxel-Hxmxs Wxr There is a more detailed report of of oct 7th titled "I scrapped the information about 1096 of the 1460 killed on 7th of October Attack. Children Less than 1%" -Yocheved Lifshitz account - 'they treated us well' -Yasmin Porat account - 'i.T.f kxilled my husband' Civilians were taken to have swaps for the civilians rotting in prisons without charge on the other side. An excess of ten thousands, all before the seventh UN Human Rights Office (UN OCHA) PA Civilians 2008-2023: 2008 - 2,325 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,440. 2012 - 3,992 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 255. 2014 - 17,533 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 1,492. 2018 - 31,259 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 300. 2019 - 15,491 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 138. 2020 - 2,581 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 30. 2021 - 19,183 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 349. 2022 - 10,345 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 191. 2023 up to September - 8,508 Wounded Civilians, Deaths 227. civilian deaths on the other side - 2008: 3 , 2012: 6 , 2014: 73 , 2018: 9 2019: 10 , 2020: 0 , 2021: 9 , 2022: 26 Total; 2008 up to September 2023 - 161,233 PA Civilian Casualties, 1,023 military personnel. Wounded includes: amputees from the deliberate targeting of knees by snipers, white phosphorous third degree body burns, etc The "Costs of War" study by brown in 2021 has these figures for the past 20 years of engagement of US policy: indirect deaths 4.5-4.7 million, direct 905-940,000 ; in other words 6 Million Deaths and 38 million displaced. This is relevant because of the Oded Yinon Plan. They are following scripture, the word עוֹלֵל, ʿôlēl which means 'Babe, infant, little one, a suckling' occurs 21 King James Bible Verses Of these verses: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” -Psalm 137:9 “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”-1 Samuel 15:3 “Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon the children abroad, and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.”-Jeremiah 6:11 “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.”-Hosea 13:16 The other verses are not much different. Infact it is always in association with violence. Indeed these verses are the reason why in the Crusades the sense of pious rejoicing at massacre does not appear to be the product of later theologizing; it is also found, in the account of the eye-witness Raymond of Aguilers: “in the Temple and porch of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered so long from their blasphemies.” In fact, Raymond continues, “This day, I say, will be famous in all future ages, for it turned our labours and sorrows into joy and exultation; this day, I say, marks the justification of all Christianity, the humiliation of paganism, and the renewal of our faith.” This is the polar opposite in the Quran in Surah Al-Tanwir, literally "The Englightenining" Surah, Aya 8-9, we have the death of a newborn is mentioned amongst the penultimate signs of the end of times, emphasizing the gravity of such an action. That child, now resurrected, is asked for what wrong doing was she murdered. This is to emphasize that she had done nothing wrong, for she had done nothing wrong and this is the day of retribution where those who omitted the evil are to be punished. This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190, which exhorts to fight unbelievers and not be "Aggressors", in the commentary of what it means to be aggressors, this was stated Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah): "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, `Umar bin `Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated that Allah's Messenger said: "Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal, commit treachery, mutilate, or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship." It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet forbade killing women and children." بابتداء القتال أو بقتال من نهيتم عن قتاله من النساء والشيوخ والصبيان والذين بينكم وبينهم عهد أو بالمثلة أو بالمفاجأة من غير دعوة "To kill those whom you were forbidden to from women, elderly, children and those whom betwixt you is a treaty or custom or by surprise or without cause" -Tafsir Al-Zamakshari of the meaning of Aggressors in the Aya More hadith from Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ شَيْخٍ، مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَوْلَى لِبَنِي عَبْدِ الْأَشْهَلِ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَ إِذَا بَعَثَ جُيُوشَهُ قَالَ: «§لَا تَقْتُلُوا أَصْحَابَ الصَّوَامِعِ» "Do not kill the dwellers of monasteries" حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ جُوَيْبِرٍ، عَنِ الضَّحَّاكِ قَالَ: كَانَ «§يُنْهَى عَنْ قَتْلِ الْمَرْأَةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ» سَعْدٍ قَالَ: «§نَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالذُّرِّيَّةِ، وَالشَّيْخِ الْكَبِيرِ الَّذِي لَا حَرَاكَ بِهِ» "The prophet forbids the killing of women, children, and the elderly" This is the polar opposite in the Qur'an, Surah Al-Anfal Ayah 61 in which even oath breaking deniers/unbelievers are allowed to sue for peace states if the unbelievers they ask for peace, give it to them. Stephen Langton, the writer of the Magna Carta (12th century, contemporary with the crusades for a reason) studied in the university of Paris which archives show had plenty of Arabic treatises in its procession, there can be no question about it being inspired by the "Sharia". both the renessiance and the european enlightenment were directly preceded by massive translation movements form Arabic (see the Republic of Letters by Alexander Bevilacqua, The House of Wisdom: How the Arabs Transformed Western Civilization By: Jonathan Lyons. The modifiable testament testament commands indiscriminate killing, genocide, plunder, mutilation, enslavement, or torture of enemies, including women, on the other hand.Surah Al-Baqara Aya 190 limits war to those who fight against Muslims, prohibits transgression, and implies respect for human dignity and life Indeed it is what precedes the famous "sword verse", always cited out of context. God did bring down the Qur’an, Mohamed is his Messenger.

[@Elle52373]

@@mznxbcv12345 Quran 3:54, Allah, the best deceiver. So is Satan.

[@mznxbcv12345]

Thanks for posting the Verse, so others could see how deceitful that translation is, the verse says: "And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned-and Allah is the best of planners." Indeed we can see the handiwork of the al-shaytan (actual original form of the word from which satan is a mumble of, his actual name is Iblis and his handiwork is seen in that attempt using a mistranslation.

[@mznxbcv12345]

The Aramaic word for God is Alaha. It's the word Isa PBUH (Jesus as his name is often misspelled due to the lack of the ayin sound in Greek, which was rendered to Iesous, coupling the nearest sound to ayin, same letter found in 'Iraq', which sounds entirely different in Arabic form 'Iran' in Arabic, with the -ous Greek suffix that Greeks typically add to their names 'HerodotOS', 'PlotinUS', 'AchelOUS' and later mumbled into a J). Sounds familiar? Written without the confusing vowels, it is A-L-H ܐ ܠܗܐ (alap-lamed-he) as found in Targum or in Tanakh (Daniel, Ezra), Syriac Aramaic (Peshitta), adducted from the Arabic original of which Aramaic is a dialect continuum of A-L-L-H (Aleph-Lam-Lam-Ha). The Yeshua rendition is KNOWN to had been taken from greek. Western Syriac also use "Isho". Western Aramaic (separate from Syriac which is a dialect of Eastern Aramaic) use "Yeshu". Western Syriac has been separate from Western Aramaic for about 1000 years. And sounds don't even match up. Syriac is a Christian liturgical language yet the four letters of the name of Jesus «ܝܫܘܥ» [ = Judeo-Babylonian Aramaic: «ישוע» ] sounds totally different in West vs East Syriac, viz. vocalized akin to Christian Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic «ܝܶܫܽܘܥ» (Yēšūʿ) in West Syriac, but pronounced more akin to Muslim Arabic Quran character name Isa in East Syriac «ܝܑܼܫܘܿܥ» (ʾĪšōʿ). The reason for this confusion is their dropping of phonemes as aforementioned. Only someone that has no idea what the letters are or how they sound would have a name ending in a pharyngeal fricative like the ayin, if it were to be used in a name it would have had to be in the beginning, thus the Arabic rendition is the correct one. In addition, The word God in hebrew is eloah, is a cognate of the Arabic I-L-H, pronounced ilah not eloah. Hebrew dropped the glottal stop and mumbled it into eloh, aramic mumbled a little less and it became elah. Infact it is written A-L-H in Arabic, it is pronounced i in Arabic cause it is an Alef with hamza below (إ أ ) They are two different forms of Alef. And it mean "a god", it is the non definitive form of A-L-L-H, in which the Alef is without a glottal stop/hamza,(ا) This kind of nuance is lost in the dialect continua. As a matter of fact, all of the knowledge needed for deciphering ancient texts and their complexity was derived from the Qur'an. It was by analyzing the syntactic structure of the Qur'an that the Arabic root system was developed. This system was first attested to in Kitab Al-Ayin, the first intralanguage dictionary of its kind, which preceded the Oxford English dictionary by 800 years. It was through this development that the concept of Arabic roots was established and later co-opted into the term 'semitic root,' allowing the decipherment of ancient scripts. In essence, they quite literally copied and pasted the entirety of the Arabic root. Hebrew had been dead, as well as all the other dialects of Arabic, until being 'revived' in a Frankensteinian fashion in the 18th and 19th centuries. The entire region spoke basically the same language, with mumbled dialect continuums spread about, and Arabic is the oldest form from which all these dialects branched off. As time passed, the language gradually became more degenerate, and then the Qur'an appeared with the oldest possible form of the language thousands of years later. This is why the Arabs of that time were challenged to produce 10 similar verses, and they couldn't. People think it's a miracle because they couldn't do it, but I think the miracle is the language itself. They had never spoken Arabic, nor has any other language before or since had this mathematical precision. And when I say mathematical, I quite literally mean mathematical. "protosemetic" Alphabet (29), Arabic Alphabet (28), Latin transliteration, hebrew (22) 𐩠 𐩡 𐩢 𐩣 𐩤 𐩥 𐩦 𐩧 𐩨 𐩩 𐩪 𐩫 𐩬 𐩭 𐩮 𐩰 𐩱 𐩲 𐩳 𐩴 𐩵 𐩶 𐩷 𐩸 𐩹 𐩺 𐩻 𐩼 ا ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي A b t ṯ j h kh d ḏ r z s sh ṣ ḍ ṭ ẓ ʿ ġ f q k l m n h w y א ב ג ד ה ו ז ח ט י כ ל מ נ ס ע פ צ ק ר ש ת Merged phonemes in hebrew and aramaic: ح, خ (h, kh) merged into only kh consonant remain س, ش (s, sh) merged into only Shin consonant remaining ط, ظ (ṭ/teth, ẓ) merged into only ṭ/teth consonant remaining ص, ض (ṣ, ḍ/Tsad ) merged into only ḍ/Tsad consonant remaining ع, غ (3'ayn, Ghayn) merged into a reducted ayin consonant remaining ت, ث (t/taw, th) merged into only t/taw consonant remaining The reason why the protoS alphabet here is 28 and not 29, is because the supposed extra letter is simply a س written in a different position, but it was shoehorned to obfuscated. In Arabic letter shapes are different depending on whether they are in the beginning , middle or end of a word. "Semitic" is just mumbled Arabic, really. Imagine English with a third of its letters removed and simplified grammar. That's Aramaic, Hebrew, etc. For example, combine T and D into just T; there's no need to have 2 letters. The same goes for i, e, y - they should all be just y from now on, etc., etc. Arabic is the only corollary to proto-Semitic. In fact, the whole classification of Semitic languages is nonsensical for anyone with a somewhat functioning brain. Hebrew, Aramaic, and the rest of these made-up dialect continua only have 22 letters out of the 29 proto-Semitic letters. Arabic has all 29. The difference between Arabic and the other creoles and Pidgin is the same as the difference between Latin and pig Latin or Italian. "Phoenician" is an Arabic dialect continuum, and not only that, it is pidgin. It is simplified to the point of stupidity. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Arabic would see this clearly. What happened was that Arabic handicapped "scholars" saw the equivalent of Scottish Twitter spelling, with added mumbling due to phonemic mergers (22 letters, not 29), and mistakenly thought they were seeing a different language." Now how is it that the Qur'an came thousands of years later in an alphabet that had never been recorded before, and in the highest form the language had ever taken? The creator is neither bound by time nor space, therefore the names are uttered as they truly were, in a language that is lexically, syntactically, phonemically, and semantically older than the oldest recorded writing. In fact, that writing appears to have been a simplified version of it. Not only that, but it would be the equivalent of the greatest works of any particular language all appearing in one book, in a perfect script and in the highest form the language could ever take. It is so high in fact, that it had yet to be surpassed despite the fact that over the last millennium the collection of Arabic manuscripts when compared on word-per-word basis in Western Museums alone, when they are compared with the collected Greek and Latin manuscripts combined, the latter does not constitute 1 percent of the former as per German professor Frank Griffel, in addition all in a script that had never been recorded before. Thus, the enlightenment of mankind from barbarism and savagery began, and the age of reason and rationality was born from its study. God did bring down the Qur'an and Mohamed is his messenger

[@andrewlim9345]

Thanks, this is a good comparative analysis of the mindsets and histories of both the Jews and Palestinian peoples. Growing up in Malaysia, I understand why many Malay Muslims identify with the Palestinians as both fellow Muslims and victims of colonialism. In NZ where I now live, Palestinian activists have networked with the left and Maori rights activists by framing Israel-Palestine as a colonial conflict.

[@gategi10]

The way the British treated the Maori is similar to tte way The Palestinians have been treated since Zionism started.

[@ggk9828]

And you'd be mistaken if you think it is not. From what I have understood from this lecture, it is both a colonial AND a refugee conflict. It depends on who is powering the conflict and for what purposes. The end result is almost always more dead Arabs than Israelis.

[@SakakiDash]

​@@ggk9828in a war the number of dead is not a indicator on who was just or right.

[@SakakiDash]

​@@gategi10not at all.

[@livingter5079]

​@@ggk9828a

[@danielpincus221]

I'd be interested to watch a panel discussion with the scholar along with Hanan Ashrawi, Benny Morris, Ilan Pappé, and Rashid Khalidi.

[@TheShacharZiv]

Me too, but I suspect Khalidi and Pappe will not take part in anything with Morris. For many years I've been waiting on a chance to clarify specific points of difference between them but it doesn't seem like they're interested in that.

[@jaialaiwarrior]

Ilan Pappe is a communist. Rashid Khalidi is very self-satisfied with his wacky colonialism (without a Metropole) narrative. Hanan Ashrawi is a politician and propagandist. Morris is the only honest one among the bunch and knows better than to indulge at least two of not all three of the others.

[@subchan6595]

they are not scholars. Scholars are people with a rigourous approach to historical fact, not political and emotionally driven bias.

[@bluebee5266]

Seriously you put those pseudo-scholars in the same category?

[@tim789jesus]

​@@subchan6595 So who are the scholars?

[@wolpumba4099]

*Abstract* This lecture explores the Palestinian narrative of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting three recurring themes: betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world, the role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel, and the perception of Zionism as colonialism. The speaker argues that these themes, while not entirely accurate, are deeply ingrained in Palestinian history and understanding, shaping their strategies and hindering peace efforts. He concludes by proposing a "coercive nonviolent" approach inspired by Martin Luther King Jr., which acknowledges the validity of both sides' narratives and seeks a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice. *Palestinian Interpretation of History* * *0:41**:* The lecture aims to explain the Palestinian perspective on the conflict, emphasizing that their interpretation is not extremist, radical, or wrong, but based on their historical experiences. * *1:22**:* Three recurring themes in the Palestinian narrative are introduced: * Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic world * The role of imperial patrons in supporting Israel * The perception of Zionism as colonialism. *Theme 1: Betrayal by the Arab and Islamic World* * *25:40**:* Palestinians feel a sense of abandonment by the Arab and Islamic world, perceiving their weakness and inaction as a betrayal. * *26:18**:* This sentiment stems from the Ottoman Empire's inability to prevent Jewish immigration and the subsequent failures of Arab nations to effectively support Palestinians in conflicts with Israel. * *28:02**:* The speaker cites quotes from Ottoman leaders expressing concerns about the rising tide of Zionism and the potential threat it posed to the empire. *Theme 2: Imperial Patrons* * *1:07:16**:* Palestinians view Israel as consistently backed by powerful imperial patrons, initially the Russian Empire due to the influx of Russian Jewish immigrants. * *1:07:42**:* This perception extends to the British Empire during the Mandate period, then to Germany in the 1920s with the arrival of German-speaking Jews, and eventually to the United States from the 1970s onwards. * *1:11:37**:* The speaker discusses instances where Arab leaders attributed Israel's strength and survival to external support, such as Egypt's declaration of war in 1948 framed as a fight against "communist atheism." *Theme 3: Zionism as Colonialism* * *1:24:25**:* Palestinians perceive Zionism as a form of colonialism, drawing parallels with European imperial projects in other parts of the world. * *1:25:05**:* The speaker cites a footnote from an Israeli geographer who argues that Zionism resembles colonialism in various aspects but with key differences, such as the lack of a "colonial mother country" and the historical connection of Jews to the land. * *1:26:36**:* This perception of Zionism as colonialism fuels Palestinian resistance movements and shapes their strategies, including the BDS movement, which aims to isolate Israel on the international stage. *Towards a Resolution* * *1:31:59**:* The speaker critiques the "decolonization" rhetoric used by some activists, arguing that it misunderstands the nature of the conflict and reinforces the Palestinian misdiagnosis of Israel. * *1:32:07**:* He proposes a solution inspired by Martin Luther King Jr.'s concept of "coercive nonviolence," which involves acknowledging the legitimacy of both sides' narratives and seeking a resolution based on mutual understanding and justice. * *1:40:13**:* This approach requires a shift from a zero-sum mentality to recognizing the "tragic" nature of the conflict, where both sides have valid grievances and aspirations. * *1:42:29**:* The speaker suggests that by understanding the Jewish experience and the historical context of Zionism, Palestinians can move beyond their current narrative and engage in more constructive dialogue towards a peaceful resolution. i used gemini 1.5 pro to summarize the transcript Token count 25,277 / 1,048,576 =

[@rashidjuma8076]

2 point 1- Islam mentio. More than once but he never said any quote of what Islam itself said about jewish because he can't fight it . Or he do not want the student to look for it but mention leaders but why the leader or what is there teaching . 2- he put the poison in the drink and student and watcher drunk it without feeling it which is to prove without say it that jewis are the victim and only only only victim from England Germany arab . Every one solow it . Victim . Pluse he destruct the main issue which is occupation by who support who finance who armed despite he said immigrated,rescued as refuge one time and have legality to home hand and put the problem on the victim

[@HerryNovri]

​@@rashidjuma8076you perfectly show what the lecturer said about how the Palestinians saw the conflict as zero sum... Which is actually not correct. The Jews returns to their ancestor land. This is fact, you don't agree. There is no stolen land. The land once belong to Ottomans, before that belong to other empires, after Ottoman, it was mandated to the British. It has never belong to the Palestinians. It is the fact. You don't agree. Palestinians has lived there. So they have right as well. This is fact. You only agree to this one. As long as you do not recognize that both the Jews and Arabs have rights to the land, then this is a zero sum conflict. The only solution is one of them completely cease to exist in the land. You know what? It will not be Israeli. Why? The Israelite will not leave the land before Damascus, Mecca, Cairo, Baghdad, Beirut and many other cities were also cease to exist. Why? They have nuclear weapon. Is it what Arab leaders one? If Israel have leader like Putin, they will finish the Palestinians in one week. This is the reality. You are free to reject the reality, but it will not change one. The reality is the reality. The Aborigines has effectively zero chance to remove Australia, so do the American Indians and the Palestinians. That what happened if you want to view this as zero sum conflict. If you see this as tragic conflict, and the Palestinians also do the same, then we can expect sometime in the future the solution.

[@SamBourgeois-mr4hq]

​@@HerryNovri Terra nullius is a very colonial justification. Even if we reject Zionist colonialism, it doesn't make a good argument for it not being stolen land. Yes, it was Ottoman, and Palestinians were Ottomans. I'm not going to tell a Mohawk man we didn't steal his lands because they were only a part of the Iroquois Confederacy. Let's be real, we're talking about Canaan anyway. It's not like Jerusalem is a Hebrew name. Y'all are cousins, and I don't mean by 12 patriarchs. I should hope the gene pool wasn't that shallow.

[@HerryNovri]

@@SamBourgeois-mr4hq Jews were Ottomans too. There was no "Mohawk State", as there was no "Eskimo State". As far as I remember, there were also no "Celtic States" either. By your logic, not only the Americans, but also the English, the Dutch and the Germans should be expelled to Ukraine, because the owner of the land were Celtic people. If the Irish could enforce that, will the Russians and Ukrainians agree to give shelters to 300 millions Germanic people? Or 10 millions Turkemistani should accept 80 millions Turkish? That's why you can not be weak. You are so absurd.

[@noahman27]

This was awesome. I wish we had video of the previous discussions you have with the group earlier in the trip. Thank you for this. Shalom Shalom U'mevorach

[@CarsInDimension]

Rettig Gur makes a similar mistake to those that mark the beginning of the Zionist movement to BILU and also is mistaken by saying 19th Jewish immigrants to the land of Israel were not ideological. The first modern wave of aliyah began in the early 1800s with the chug of the Vilna Gaon. While we might not describe them as ideological Zionists, they made aliyah for religious, i.e. ideological, reasons. The Chovevei Zion, who predated BILU, were also religiously motivated as were proto-Zionist Rabbis Kalisher and Mohliver. The first modern Jewish settlement was Petach Tikva, founded in 1878 by members of the old yishuv, which was primarily religious. A few years before that, religious Jews from Yemen started making aliyah by foot. Yes, many of those early proto-Zionists were refugees, escaping persecution, but they didn't go just anywhere. Rettig Gur stresses how most early Jewish migrants to Palestine were refugees, not ideologues, but then makes the point how they weren't interested in going to Greece or somewhere else within the Ottoman empire - they wanted to go to Eretz Yisrael. They were refugees, but with a very specific destination in mind. His solution is for the Arabs to not see the conflict as a zero sum game, to see the Jews instead pitiful refugees, deserving of their compassion, not a free people with the right of determining their own destiny, deserving of respect. Rettig Gur doesn't mention it but the Arab world, at least least since the 1930s, under some influence from the Nazis, have seen the Jews as the power behind imperialism and communism, sort of uber imperialists who get the great powers to do the Jews bidding. That actually fits hand in glove with the idea that it is the feeling of humiliation from Islamic and Arab weakness in the face of the Jews' success, the uppity dhimmis who dare to claim title to something wakf, in Muslim domain, that continues the conflict. Perhaps the reason why the Palestinian elite has gone from seeing Russian, then British, then Communist, then British, French, and ultimately American imperialism behind the Jews is that they don't want to admit how that feeling of weakness undermines their religious faith as Muslims. Rather than address the fact that Zionism's success challenges some of their beliefs as Muslims they'd rather blame imperialism and colonialism. That those terms resonate with the academic world of the west allows them to avoid addressing those facts.

[@taniajosefa]

As a Hebrew to English translator/editor I would advise you not to use transliterated Hebrew when writing in English except for proper nouns. The chug of the Vilna Gaon should be the circle of the Vilna Gaon. Making aliya should be immigrating. Eretz Yisrael should be the Land of Israel.

[@CarsInDimension]

@@taniajosefa You have a point, but what's wrong with expecting people to be somewhat literate about Jewish culture? Nobody demands that Arabic words like sharia and haj be translated. Why is it always, "The Temple Mount, what Muslims call Haram al Sharif," not "Har HaBayit, what Muslims call the Noble Sanctuary"?

[@ef2718]

The first Zionist leader was prophet Moses AS, who led the Israelis back to Zion from Egypt some 3300 years ago. The second Zionist leader was Ezra the scriber 538 BCE.

[@cliodyncycwatch924]

I appreciate your comments. I agree that it's a "false binary" to insist on exclusively either refugee or ideologue. Also good observation about Palestinian elites seeing Jews as agents and/or beneficiaries of foreign empires and ideologies. This is in alignment with the tendency for an Arab Muslim that's well educated in their history (by "Eastern" standards/traditions) to believe that the good times are when they are part of a strong caliphate. We westerners OTOH tend to "believe in" the nation-state (in a rules-based order) and consider their view retrograde.

[@phyllisbarr4766]

yep and we know 2 things...1. if the Jews aren't indigenous to the land of Israel then no group of people are indigenous to any land on earth 2. The land loves and responds to having its people back en masse, see how it florishes

[@chaimhandler1]

Were there two letters by Yusuf Khalidi in 1899, because I'm pretty certain that the letter dated March 1, 1899 was addressed to Rabbi Zadoc Kahn who was chief rabbi of France from 1889 to 1905, not to Theodor Herzl.

[@reneconstantine3195]

...as always... history is being distorted

[@GoldSilverShop]

One of the best and the most sober lecture on the topic with a great sense of humour. Thank you.

[@jillfryer6699]

Yes its a laugh a minute.

[@philiprufus4427]

Excellant ! As a seventy year old Brit who has read the History of the area since seeing Lawrence of Arabia in 1964 and heard so much 'mince' talked over the last few years, (one Arab kid even alluded to everything being hunky dory before 1948,had'nt heard of The Ottomans or The Brits. The Ottomans were only there for a few hundred years) I had almost given up. A Real Historian !

[@serpentines6356]

​@@philiprufus4427 Yep. I read a lot of the pro- Hamas types saying things like that online. It was all so wonderful for everyone before Israel happened... I guess I could say - "Yes, it was wonderful, that's one reason many Arabs were selling land to the Jews." 😅

[@serpentines6356]

​@@jillfryer6699 And sarcasm saves the day! 😁

[@cardanotony1097]

@@philiprufus4427alittle correction friend the ottomans protected Middle East from 1517+1917 Cheers 👍

[@shanybiran468]

Please consider adding chapters/timecodes for ease of reference. Just add the following text anywhere in the description and the timestamp for each section of the talk: Timecodes 00:00 - Intro 4:35 - 1881 The beginning of Jewish 20th century etc...

[@drfelixcjchivandire9550]

This is free. How bout you do the time codes for ease of reference?. ;)

[@ivanf2782]

​@drfelixcjchivandire9550 even of it's free. It is great recommendation that would benefit all watchers and listeners. It neitherr difficult nor new. Let's not be afraid of giving suggestions .

[@elqord.1118]

least useful time stamps ever

[@dialectic76]

What is the question around 43:00 where he says, I don't want to get into it, but wikipedia is your friend. It's something about the San Remo conference.

[@ibrahimanan1874]

Even in the novel by writer David Grossman, called (The Smile of the Lamb), which revolves around the Israeli (Uri), who serves in the Israeli army in the West Bank. He discovers the truth about the practices against Palestinian civilians and is shocked because he did not know anything about what is happening in the occupied Palestinian territories. The novel depicts the emergence of an extremist movement against Israel that is also hostile To the (Palestine Liberation Organization), but it more brutal, when there was only PLO. This novel was published in the 1983 same year in which the author gave birth to his son, Uri, who is the same name as the hero of the novel. During the Israeli war in Lebanon, David Grossman’s son, Uri, was killed by an extremist party, Hezbolla The resemblance to Hamas, which did not exist when the novel was published, is a kind of painful, rhetorical prophecy.

[@curtvaughan2836]

Excellent lecture. These students will remember this for the rest of their lives.

[@IshaqIbrahim3]

Is this true or false?

[@danakaleb4882]

@@IshaqIbrahim3true

[@termination9353]

​@@IshaqIbrahim3I'm Jewish and I say these guys speak falsehood. There is nothing Jjewish about this so called Jewish state.

[@barrybkopicz2845]

​@@IshaqIbrahim3True

[@philiprufus4427]

Lets Hope So Eh !

[@peteryyz43]

12:33: "Because we have a lot of nations, we're done with nations" . It's funny how Haviv inadvertently does a perfect Trump impersonation while saying that line; he even does the classic Trump hand gestures, too.

[@Torrana]

great catch! lol

[@Obsessedandstuff]

didn't mean to watch almost two hour long lecture rn but omg was that interesting

[@CoMar3466]

The wounded pride, the admitted weakness, the humiliation of loosing to the “poor refugees”, sadly, is not just a Palestinian story. It’s the source of the world’s oldest hatred. Amazing lecture. Thank you.

[@_clauscarstensen]

Thank you for sharing this video. So many things I did not know or just didn't put together for perspective.

[@Stardust475]

Thank you, for uploading this. Very informative, perspectives rarely heard.

[@msinbalony]

It would have been much more valuable if he repeated the audience's questions or they had a microphone. I feel like I'm hearing one side of a conversation.

[@novacancy7253]

Turn the volume up 🤷🏻‍♀️ there is not sides in this discourse

[@pamelaroyce5285]

@@novacancy7253there is a maximum we can boost our volume. It should be habitual on the part of all public speakers to repeat the question and then answer it.

[@nataliamundell6266]

​@@novacancy7253 what if it goes no louder

[@cowmath77]

You’re listening to a lecture, not a conversation…

[@pamelaroyce5285]

@@cowmath77 yes, indeed. Everyone who talks to an audience while on camera should remember to repeat the question and then answer it. Even if the acoustics are such that everyone in the room can *probably* hear the question (and there might be some with moderate hearing impairments who cannot), the mic in the camera does not necessarily pick up the question. That results in the speaker seeming to make random remarks that have no context. At a monthly meeting that I attend that is also live streamed, our officer who introduces the speaker says, “For the sake of the live stream, please repeat the question before answering it.” I, sitting in the room, with hearing aids, also appreciate it.

[@farcenter]

Great teacher

[@RMS255]

"great teacher" ?! Rather a stupid idiot...

[@martatryzna4514]

I love this lecture! And I love the fact that he has a powerful narrative and interactive style, provocative dialogue with the students, and he is so passionate about the subject, and he uses minimal visuals🙌🙌🙌

[@matsinilsson9578]

No. It is too loud and the rhetorical questions he asks loudly is more fear-inducing than engaging or thought provoking. Give the answer. Let the children/students learn from your deductions and make their own separately during test time.

[@alnon6304]

All rubish....all propaganda antijudia. Catar and jamás pay for all that.

[@AC-mp7cx]

a liar

[@mardasman428]

Among Arabs and Palestinians there is a pervasive myth that almost all Israelis are dual citizens anyways, that they actually belong somewhere else and CAN go somewhere else. A Jordanian roommate in my dorm was complaining about Israel during a discussion and I asked her about her solution to the conflict. She plainly said that all Israeli Jews had to leave Palestine. She justified it by telling that almost all Israelis supposedly had dual citizenship anyways, so that it wouldn't actually be a big problem for them. I think it encapsulates exactly what Rettig Gur enumerated and explained well.

[@fabioq6916]

And what is the current Bibi policy for Palestinians?

[@neshirst-ashuach1881]

"What is the current Bibi policy for Palestinians?" It Seems to be trying to give them tons of money, and a far better economy than any of the sorrounding Arab states in the belief that this will make them less interested in genocide....somehow. Its a really stupid policy, and a total failure to understand the fundamnetal desires of the Palestinians, as shown in decades of surveys - kill all the Jews, taje all the land. Its really dumb to believe that you can essentially buy off the Palestinians.

[@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros]

and today's reality shows: she's right, at least in parts. Look how they leave.

[@mardasman428]

@@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros They don't actually leave. Emigration rates are remarkably stable considering how battered the country has become. Just 50.000 have left the country and 30.000 have made aliyah and come to Israel, so the number was remarkably stable.

[@aleejones7508]

Know your own religion, The jews were told not to return to Israel, but to scatter among the other nation......

[@imagesbelow]

I absolutely love this lecture, thank you so much for sharing this. I wish all schools could show this lecture as it's so important and incredibly well presented.

[@el_tejon383]

1:25:54 what is the original footnote (is he speaking of Gideon Levy?) and the Alex Yakobson quote? Links please!

[@cheshbon2]

This horse is a duck. Apart from the fact that it has hooves instead of crusts and mouth instead of beak and is from the mammal department and not a chicken and is the size of a horse and not a duck and has fur and not feathers - besides it is totally a duck. It really matters who invented this nonsense?

[@el_tejon383]

@@cheshbon2 yeah, I want to see the source! Ducks have crusts?

[@cheshbon2]

@@el_tejon383 Yes. These bastards have pieces of skin between their fingers. I swear.😀. Anyway the quote is from one guy named Alex Yacobson. Doctor of History at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Don't know exactly from where. Probably from one of his books.

[@human8807]

I agree with you that early Jews came to Palestine as refugees. However, that fact doesn't diminish the ultimate goal of "state building." Imagine Syrian refugees in Canada participating in a project to establish a Syrian state within Canada, or even attempting to take over the entire country. In such a scenario, the refugee narrative might not carry much weight in people's minds. What you've mentioned doesn't alter the reality that Palestinians were displaced from their lands, whether through coercion or other means, just as Jews residing in Arab-speaking countries faced similar challenges. I personally believe that nationalistic endeavors should be understood within their specific historical contexts, particularly in Western Europe before and during early modernity. These efforts have often failed to establish cohesive and functional nations elsewhere in the world. I think I would strongly support Israel if it transitioned towards a multicultural, non-nationalistic identity (in other words, not solely a Jewish state or engineering the demographics to achieve so). Now, regarding colonization and imperialism, it's irrelevant who the patron is if the outcome is a society that restricts immigration based on ethnicity and excludes certain ethnic groups from military service. That's not a favorable scenario. Having said that, Jews have every right to live in Israel/Palestine, as long as the country upholds the human rights of its indigenous population, whether that population is Jewish or Arab.

[@sandy-jn5rd]

Syrians in Canada not analogous to Jews in Israel…. more like French Canadians going back to France and reclaiming their lost lands, if Canada persecutes them. something like that.

[@pashokresn]

Unfortunately, democracy is not how the middle east operates, so a democratic arab-jewish-whatever country would soon degrade into chaos. Europe gets a taste of that now.

[@gypsymiller3683]

I had a significant shift of perspective with this lecture. It should be replayed again and again and heard by everyone playing a zero sum game.

[@termination9353]

Revisionist history propaganda.

[@jv004k]

@terminator you’re a knucklehead and didn’t listen to the video

[@GardenerGeorge]

@@jv004kSorry it is very possible ( likely even , if one has no pre existing bias ) to listen to this lecture and find it lacking in logic and purposefully omitting facts .

[@davidchin1828]

@@GardenerGeorge how so? just curious? He seems to work hard trying to look at issues as they were understood at the times, rather that looking a back and making broad assumptions that is a huge problem in contemporary news coverage

[@herzl67]

​@@termination9353Red army slogans are so dated. Totalitarian demonization tactics in absence of arguments.

[@benoitpisarchick6866]

brilliant lecture!! applause by a christian french. (What i found also amusing is that i was saying to myself that Mr Haviv Rettig is teaching the way a Rabbi do in yeshivah school, by constantly interrogating his audience, and then he revealed at the end of his lecture he is father is a rabbi! )

[@peterpersoff3073]

Also called Socratic method (lecturing by asking questions).

[@kincso1855]

Bojler eladó! (for the algorithm ;) ) Thank you.

[@compovi8461]

This lecturer was the first person I listened to who knew how terror organisations work and how they try to achieve their goals. And he did it with the example of martin luther king which to me was unexpected and new knowledge. That point was the hight of this lecture and I understand now why it has so much views. Many more Jews and Israelis need to listen to this lecture.

[@joeyrufo]

Good news everyone! MLK fixed racism! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🙄🤦

[@marydeancason4929]

Many more students protesting on US campuses need to watch this.

[@rizoula]

The only issue with this argument is that israel can be a imperialist project and use refugees as an excuse to promote colonialism. Both are not mutually exclusive. Also they use BDS not because they are bigot but because they are occupied .

[@solimansoliman9806]

Can you elaborate ?

[@rizoula]

@@solimansoliman9806 meaning that the government and people in power can use refugees as an element of colonialism as well as a political front of deniability in order to further the cause of imperialism. We can see exemple of this in the West Bank . Extremist supported by the government say out loud on TV that they can call this many families to come repopulate Palestinians villages. If you take the pure definition of refugees, is there Jewish refugees in Israel and their descendants? Absolutely. No one can deny that . Are all Jews refugees? No. But it’s a useful tool to tell the story of a people that are all refugees without exceptions while denying others the right to be refugees. That tool is used today by Israel and the political elite of western countries to tell people that there is nowhere else the Jewish people can go and so people need to get over the “Palestinian problem”. But purely refugee movement doesn’t look like the separation of people in the West Bank, or the siege on gaza. When I look at refugee movements across the world what I see are minorities living in terrible conditions, in tents having no power whatsoever. Let’s be clear that I do not wish this on anyone. But what we see in Israel is not just a “refugee” movement but a colonialism and imperialism movement that uses the refugees status of its citizens to do whatever they want.

[@nohisocitutampoc2789]

Just amazing. I have seen the entire speech in a session. I would like to know more thing about the scholar. I insist, incredible.

[@Scdoo100]

I want to take this course! Any chance of getting links to the books he mentioned?

[@edithslawik6393]

Glad that there are some teachers left in this world, eager to make others to research and learn thinking and acting upgrade in many regards. What he says about MLK is what I was scorned for 45 years ago, when I told my not white colored friends in th US-Army just the same.

[@martinusiskin4179]

He says at about 46 minutes to 47 minutes Palestinians are certainly not Jews. However, he should be clear that up until 1948, Jews who lived in this land were known internationally and by the British as Palestinian Jews. This has a significance regarding the weakness of the name used to define a people. If the definition of the connected name is weak regarding the entity of Arabs who are at odds with Jews then the argument defining this separate Arab entity is weak along with the argument that these Arabs are separate people from Syrians and Jordanians and some of those in Lebanon or Egypt. Therefore this is not a separate ethnicity to those who already have large swathes of resource rich Arab ethnostate lands.

[@larrylangman3544]

This was profound and brought an amazing insight to what is happening and more importantly how it might end.

[@Ouzrighara]

This is one of the great lessons to be tought. I would love to hear more, structive, thoughts about: - You only talked about the feelings of the refugees and the actions of the Arab Leaders towards it, what do you have about Zionst actions and Local palestinian feelings towards it. - What wat rhe status before 1948 in the Arab world and why the migration only started after the cration of the state. Im not here to debate, I am here to learn more

[@existentialvoid]

So powerful. Your students are lucky to have such a cogent and profound teacher.

[@brianlevy4619]

He has got it about right with the exception of Sinai war of 1956 which was really about Israel's nuclear project. Israel's price for participation per declassified documents was heavy water from the British !

[@fgarrison2910]

Can you link info about this? Do you mind. Interested!

[@Enyavar1]

@@fgarrison2910 Also interested, but I want to point out that this would have been offtopic. Israel's history can fill many days of nonstop lectures, he had to cut something out. For example, he mentioned the Arab League not once, and that organization was ideologically only united in one thing: Eradicating Israel. It was the Arab League's superglue. Hugely important for the larger Arab identity, but off-topic here. Same with your Sinai war.

[@victorleonades4159]

Congratulations !! Amazing historical timeline and comments..

[@alessandramaffilippi3080]

Lectio magistralis. You have the gift of capturing the big picture and offer an interesting and non-obvious point of view about the story. Follow you is like galloping on the back of history. I've only a question: how did Izz al-Dīn al-Qassām lead the Arab revolt if he died on November 19, 1935, killed by the British? The Arab Revolt broke out the following year, precisely following the death of al-Qassām, and although his death was a pretext because discontent had been brewing for some time, how can a dead man lead a revolt? Thanks for a reply.

[@paulocarlin]

Qassam's funeral in Haifa elicited a mass outpouring of public outrage, ostensibly catalysing the revolt.

[@daveking3494]

today in Germany I just bought 20 Haas avocados from Israel and there are a lot of other fruits and vegetables from Israel on the shelves. How is it that it’s such a problem to get food to the Palestinians our Israel food supply here in Germany still works great?

[@katherinekeyser7382]

One thing that I gather are the powers that be, forbid any product from Israel... Of course they're ignorant of the products used daily are Israeli. Medical etc

[@lebojay]

The avocados got to you because you were willing to pay for them. There’s always enough food in the world to feed all the starving people, all of them. We just don’t care enough to get the food to them when we can sell it instead. To be fair, though, Hamas is incompetent. They couldn’t effectively distribute food among their people even if they wanted to, which I don’t think they do. The suffering of their own people serves Hamas’s purpose. Their leaders say that taking care of Gazans is the job of Israel and the UN, not Hamas. When those are your (elected!) leaders, you’re going to go hungry.

[@tedtalksrock]

Because Hamas finds it useful optics for their cause to block provisions and to allow their own people to starve.

[@cowmath77]

Imagine not understanding paying for food and services VS feeding your enemies for free.

[@samthesomniator]

Israel ist nicht dafür verantwortlich, dass das Gemüse hier in Rewe landet. Das ist glaube ich seit der Antike nicht Sache von Staaten sondern von Händlern. Heute eher so Lebensmittelkonzernen. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@gary100dm]

What about Kemal Ataturk and the movement for secularism?

[@glennlgg6871]

What still remains of that?

[@ciarandoyle4349]

A very interesting presentation. I appreciate the time limitations on Mr Rettig's lecture, and perhaps he will cover these subjects in some future video: Zionist Revisionism: Does the Palestinian conception of Zionism distinguish between Zionists and Revisionists? Does the Israeli conception of Zionism consider Zionism to be led, in practice, by Revisionists? Do these questions matter for the future of Israel? Israel as a Jewish refugee centre: It may be theoretically possible for Israelis to present themselves to Palestinians as people present in Palestine of necessity, but how to present the many American, British, and other Jews present purely as a convenient lifestyle choice?

[@gilaschannel1855]

Very interesting and informative.

[@godotkrull579]

thx for having this public, great speaker, very interesting content...

[@roniberahaquartet477]

Hm this thinking about the Soviets giving the arms .You forgot that the arms are from Nazi era in Czechoslovakia and that Tito landed some airplanes who crossed Yugoslav airspace with those arms .

[@samthesomniator]

Weapons the jewish ppl. manufactured themselves by slave labour in the concentration camps. Bit of irony of history that this weapons safed them in the end.

[@EAmir-dw7xp]

Interesting with a wish for part 2,But Alon was From Achdut Haavoda and not Mapam as you said.

[@kamikaze2666]

I found this lecture as intriguing and insightful. I have studied WW2 with depth which sparked the internal question “why do people not like Jews” which boils down to the pope and many other complex events that have occurred over centuries. I am not Jewish but I have Jewish friends - current events in the Middle East (ironically) are drastically more pronounced in terms of polarity in the eastern United States as there is a much more pronounced Jewish population on the east coast.

[@user-mv2nv6rd9b]

Thank you for your introduction!! It is beautiful to hear Jews, such wonderful people & culture address our problematic present. I am a gentile. I have a reverence for Judaism. But I have deep problems with contemporary Israel. Thank you so much for allowing comments. God have mercy on us all. It will the first words from all our lips: "mercy Lord!".

[@phyllisbarr4766]

lol what problems do you have with "contemporary" Israel?

[@Sl1pstreams]

@@phyllisbarr4766He is likely one of those gentiles who thinks we are beautiful and dignified when we stoically walk into the cattle cars, but has problems when we defend ourselves.

[@thethirdchimpanzee]

​@@Sl1pstreams Yes. EVERYBODY who has ANY criticism of the actions of the Israeli government under Netanyahu is antisemitic, and wants to see Israel destroyed - even the many *Jews* who oppose the policies towards the Palestinians are antisemitic "self-hating Jews", even those who are *Jewish Israeli citizens* and protest the war are antisemites!! You can't just go crying "Antisemites!" everytime someone criticisms the Israeli government. Because eventually, just like the "Boy Who Cried Wolf", nobody is going to believe you anymore. "Defend ourselves". Yea, and how many more Gazan children have to die until you feel safe? Obviously the 10,000+ (probably closer to 20,000) aren't enough, so can you give me a rough estimate of how many more need die? Or maybe you are on the side of those like Jared Kushner or those within the Likud Party who want to see the IDF "Finish the job" and free up all of that "Valuable real estate" in Gaza for "development" of "Jewish settlements". Which is the literal definition of "ethnic cleansing"!!

[@phyllisbarr4766]

reminds me of the cartoon with the hamasshole guy holding with a sign that says kill all Jews and a baby that is hostage and an intermediary sitting between them and Netanyahu the intermediary asks Netanayahu...Can't you meet them half way? @@Sl1pstreams

[@Undoublethinkful]

@@phyllisbarr4766 Well it was founded on massive land theft, expulsions and atrocities. And it continues inflicting atrocities, and some of its ministers now are explicitly planning and advocating seizing the rest of the land. But to recognize any of this you have to recognize the humanity of the people this was imposed upon. Zionists have a LOT of trouble recognizing the humanity of the Palestinian people.

[@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat]

Do you think there's ever been any classrooms in Gaza having conversations like this? I doubt it.

[@nadanaim307]

Of course there is. Palestinians are amongst the most educated in the world.

[@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat]

@@nadanaim307 Learning to push a button on your s-i-cide vest isn't "education".

[@gemmalee3032]

good teacher, very engaging - has shown how strong, solid, purposive, and morally clear the Jews were, and still are.

[@hus390]

20:19 “mutasarrıf” is derived from Arabic. The verb “tasarif” means dispenser, Mutasarrif means Ruler/ Dispenser or ruler.

[@petertigchelaar1383]

This is so insightful and helpful for this Canadian trying to better understand the current conflict in Israel and Gaza-so I've subscribed! Would it be possible to have future lectures include the students' comments that are off mic? They're also insightful, and not hearing them fully interrupts the flow of the lecture. Stay true!

[@dannyhughes4889]

Such a shame that we didn't hear the audience interaction loud and clear.

[@reneconstantine3195]

this is absolutely on purpose... Subtitles Could have been FOR ALL!!! That it is why l see it as part of shaping the view type of video: %only for ~1 person from the audience there were subtitles .. EVERYONE WHO actually watched it.. know that a lot of people from audience participated... but on purpose we can't hear their opinion. !?! So question is...: CAN we here different opinions, on different questions; ....or not😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎉😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😊

[@cowmath77]

@@reneconstantine3195this is what’s known as a lecture. Trying paying attention in school, you’ll notice most of your classes involve lectures.

[@Ubbe6]

Wery interesting, I learn more about the conflict all the time. It’s a Western thought that you can reflect even on your own mistakes and look at the history with other glasses, instead of your own. But can the Arab and the Muslim world see the world with a different perspective? My opinion is, they can’t . Because it’s a way to show weakness. You can’t reflect over your religion or your standpoint, because that is to “loose your face “. Am I right?

[@zragowsk]

This is amazing - should have greater reach

[@johnpatmos1722]

What is the name of the podcast?

[@danielgoldberg9231]

I think he's referring to Call me Back with Dan Senor (most of the non-Haviv guests aren't that great tho)

[@Evanroz]

That was a masterclass in presentation of facts and an explanation that that addresses the major points that have been repeated by the ignorant masses for 5 months. Haviv has done his duty in promoting truth, defending Judaism, revealing the weakness of Islam, and showing all the reasons and assumptions that the pro-Hamas population make as rooted in their campaign for injustice. This should be required viewing for anyone who wishes to debate the existence of the state of Israel.

[@IshaqIbrahim3]

Is this true or false?

[@ricksmithguitar]

Anyone with the agenda of defending the state of Israel is by definition presenting a biased view. Point: no state has a’right’ to exist, including Israel. Like the United States it’s a state founded a settler colonial state who expressed aim since the outset of Zionism is the expulsion of the indigenous people to form a Theocracy. Any attempt to portray it as anything else is disingenuous. Now they’ve sufficiently programmed the younger generation so that nice suburban Israeli young people drop bombs on civilians from drones and experience no guilt like a video game. Disgusting.

[@galuhnoormalisa8349]

state of israel even is just a secular capitalist state just like a mini US.. not based on Judaism. Before 1917, Palestinian consisting peaceful living palestinian Jew, palestinian muslim, Palestinian christian. And then starting milions of european refugees (some are illegal by the British) came to Palestinian Territory start to displace indigenous palestinian homes and land both by forceful and intimidating buying land or illegally stole homes.. UP UNTIL NOW. Its up to you to free yourself from chronic cognitive dissonance or comfortfully living in the Zionist Doctrine through your life, just listen the "if i say so, believe me" style with Zionist source only and stopping yourself to always question n verify everything. If you really seek the truth, its available in every form, from Britannica Ensiclopedia book or webbased, UN source, Documentary from european journalist esp DW of you like from UK and Eouropean. And theres many more. DONT STOP QUESTIONING EVERYTHING

[@BiharyGabor]

What do you mean by "defending Judaism"? What does Judaism has to do with Israel? Zionism and then Israel were founded by non-religious Jews.

[@Silly.Old.Sisyphus]

Judaism is not truth. It is a political myth-doctrine, derived from earlier Mesapotamian and Canaanite myth-doctrines, explained in detail in "Why Man Created God", which should be required viewing for anyone who wishes to debate the existence of the state of mind that wants to believe in an all-powerful cloud-riding warrior god. Islam is derived from Judaism, and shares all its weaknesses.

[@fabriziodallolmo9840]

By incensing Dr. King as a strategist is he saying that Hamas are great strategists by exposing the violence of the other side to the world and bringing the weight of the public to bear? Is he suggesting that all it would be needed now is a Palestinian Dr. King and an Israeli LBJ? Fantastic job on exploring the 2 perspectives although I felt his heart, understandably so, was beating stronger for the Jewish side. I learned a lot and corrected a bunch of misinterpretations and ideological positions. Thanks.

[@hpaulbryant729]

Hamas has only partly exploited the violence by Israel. Dr. King would not have made the mistake of making a surprise attack, kidnapping women and holding hostages. For many, violence justifies violence. So, while Israel is being condemned for the current violence, the condemnation has been delayed and is less potent. The strategy/philosopy/actions of Hamas more closely translates to the efforts by Malcolm X. He believed that whites would never accept blacks, and blacks were better served by segregation and then pursuing growth from within. Malcolm X essentially believed that the conflict between whites and blacks was a zero sum game. Quite Frankly, the region would benefit from more leaders adopting the lessons of Dr. King --- as this would enable them to see the potential for a non-zero sum game between the people of the region.

[@sandy-jn5rd]

no, he didn’t say Hamas is like MLK, far from it 1:43:05

[@Jimo1956]

Great lecture. Learned quite a lot. Thank you. BTW, the mentionerd book by Oren Kessler is called: Palestine 1936: The Great Revolt and the Roots of the Middle East Conflict.

[@vladimirioffe4237]

Very interesting presentation, but hard to listen on the internet in the way he is presenting: asking repeatedly questions from the audience; very loudly at times presenting material…. May be it is good to listen inside room, but not convenient for outside listener.

[@kendread55]

I had exactly the same problem

[@skybellau]

The verbal bombing was ridiculous. Worst teaching method I've EVER heard.

[@lizberezin2919]

I would be ok if we could hear what the students were saying, very difficult without this.

[@intuitionist1]

It is an indoctrination technique - which apparently works quite well with these naive children

[@Stardust475]

Just appreciate their uploading something primarily for students. Have you seen the old JP uni lectures?

[@LivN25]

No doubt this man knows some history but is undoubtedly biased. Sometimes it’s difficult to distinguish if he has contempt for Palestinians or just innocently observing. I have heard several other Jewish Palestinian historians and they tell many of these histories differently. I also felt like he was consistently trying to eliminate responsibility of the Jewish Israeli governments and militaries of these times onto the British and Russian.

[@jellyrcw12]

Incredible lecture!

[@user-ip1vk9lc9u]

Can anyone help me understand did the Jews have the option to go to Greece and chose not to?

[@ABrown-ww8kj]

As an outsider, I applaud the effort by Haviv Gur to advocate ‘reaching for the justice”, however little, to find solutions on both sides. I’d love to know what Israelis should do in a concrete way, since he already addressed what Palestinians should do. It seems absurdly naive, though, to suggest that the occupied Palestinians try ‘coercive nonviolence’ tactics to recover their taken homes. What immediately comes to mind is a well-armed IDF force or automatic rifle toting Settlers. As far as I could tell, Palestinians are still under Israeli occupation. Am I mistaken?

[@kimobrien.]

That is a lot of BS about King who got himself killed with his non violent provoke the bear strategy. You want to be able to defend yourself. Fidel Castro understood that which is why he died in his bed instead of being assasinated. The capitalist elite are the ones behind all the mass violence going on but for a professor to say that would be going against his own ruling class.

[@ennisel]

The whole thing was a blaady mess for real, it started off as political where the Russian Jews who immigrated, fleeing as refugees were in fact pillared between posts really; of the Ottoman demise, which wasn’t their fault and the British, then the religious argument came in to support and validate the narrative. At this juncture in history the wise should see though, that both peoples are there to stay and should strive to live in peace like the majority of Arabs in Israel, or just stay in their territory, cause the war(s) is over and we all need to live.

[@ef2718]

Both sides: Arabs against Jews Muslims against Jews 21 Arab countries against Israel 56 Muslim countries against Israel Islam vs. Judaism Shia vs. Sunni Iran vs. Turkey vs. KSA vs. Egypt USSR/Russia vs. USA East vs. West Partial list of drivers of this conflict

[@Rhinoxerox]

What a superb talk. Brilliant.

[@faulker2p]

This is my missing link to understanding this conflict.I have goose bumps.

[@itsacomment5991]

Thank you for this fascinating lecture. As an American liberal who is not Jewish, but one who is a strong supporter of Israel, I am acutely aware that prevalent anti-Israel narratives ignore and distort the complicated history of the region. I've learned enough over the years to know that there is a great deal of misrepresentation of this history. There was a lot to absorb in this lecture, so I will bookmark and review it as a reference for further reading.

[@usjtraffic]

Very much agree.

[@merbst]

History of Israel is not so complicated, the Zionists are the oppressors, the Palestineans are the oppressed. As the oppressors, the Zionists need hasbara lies like these to bury the shame that they suppress about the pogroms against the Palestineans.

[@michellenorris8471]

Read better history.

[@THE-COOL-GIRL-CHANNEL]

TOO BAD ISRAEL ISN`T A STRONG SUPPORTER OF THE JEWS., JEWS WHO THE IDF KILL FOR SPORT kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZumYZKprL6VipY kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5WTXoKug7SSmLM kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHXOYoephryggtE kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGeWn6Ccl66IeKM kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZSzloWJi8yIprM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mJuqfWN-e7man7c kzbin.info/www/bejne/momteamGrJamo6c www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/ kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIOqiJelfN-MlaM

[@termination9353]

Hello-Im the Moschiach. I'm willing to declare all Pallestinians descendants of Jacob's twelve sons and are therefore just as rightfully heirs to the Holy Land as equal citizens.... One State Solution.

[@aligned4good]

Very informative. Thank you 🙏

[@Heddyconfetti]

Informative? You mean manipulative.

[@aligned4good]

@@Heddyconfettitell me how?

[@amitophir]

@@aligned4good Because he used facts and constructed a reasonable story where the Zionists are not pure evil. If you really want to learn the true history, I suggest you ignore all that Zionist propaganda and only consider pro-Palestinian sources.

[@cowmath77]

@@Heddyconfetti Imagine thinking the Palestinian narrative holds water under penalty of literal death for not adhering to it.

[@adamredwine774]

Fantastic talk. Haviv is an incredible intellect.

[@udeychowdhury2529]

Brilliant lecture, thanks

[@sandy-jn5rd]

1:02 back in college, we had to prepare for debates without knowing which side we’d take, bec we pick straws at the last minute. So we had to prep for both sides, which is eye-opening bec it forces students to shift POV either way. In the end we understand both sides a bit deeper.

[@timothylink4386]

The Palestinians are descendants of the ancient people known as Judeans and other Caananite people, who have all intermixed all through history. They are the people of that land, and they have been the majority. The only reason there is a state of Israel is because of brute military force brought in by Europe and the US, looking for a way to purge themselves of Rabinnics, and not willing to give up any of their land to make a separate country for this particular religious sect, in all of it's various forms. It keeps factioning, like every other religion. What a crazy plan, to pit people of similar ancestry against each other over specific religious interpretations. It's important to not forget that all the ancient Judean religions are gone. The Samaratins, the ancestors of the ancient Israelis, are the only ones that can claim a long contiguous religious tradition. Rabinics emerged about the same time as Muslims. Christianity is older than either of those. All have their roots in old Abrahamic text. All have members with bloodlines going back to that region, as well as members wtihout such a bloodline. It's weird that only the Rabinnics are called "Jews", implying that they specifically have the strognest Judean ancestry. The Palestiian Christian, Muslims and whatever faith they practice now have every bit as much of that. Maybe they are smart but "wrong" as this video suggests. I'd suggest the modern Israelis are every bit as smart but wrong. Until you recognize your common identity, you're both wrong.

[@gruweldaad]

This was so fascinating.

[@geertdecoster5301]

The problem with finding a solution with the King analogy is that he indeed started with "I'm not better than you" and not "we're all Americans"

[@patriciablue2739]

I’d like a modern equivalent, as comparison, to understand how important pride and honor are to Muslims.

[@intuitionist1]

It is nothing to do with pride and honour. It has everything to do with justice.

[@s13rr4buf3]

That goes back to just the pure religion, what they're told in the book. The only way to solve those problems is for them to move towards secularism, as most of the other religions in the world have done over the last 500 years.

[@intuitionist1]

@@s13rr4buf3 So can I take it that you have read "the book" or is this just idle speculation?

[@s13rr4buf3]

@@intuitionist1 It's a very short book, especially compared to the Bible. I do own a translated copy of the Koran. The whole thing is in huge decorative print with thick pages. It's like a children's book. It goes on and on about how to treat your captive slave women, unbelievers that you have conquered militarily, "whom your right hand possesses," whether you have to feed them or how much, and what kind of rituals you have to go through before you can force them to have sex with you. There are slightly different rules for when and how to force your wives to have sex with you. There is no concept of consent on the part of the women. It's only about going through the motions of religious ritual, to make sure that God doesn't hold your sex-having against you. You have to abstain on certain days, etc.

[@intuitionist1]

@@s13rr4buf3 "No I haven't read it" would have been a more concise (and honest) answer

[@laurameszaros9547]

A pity so many of the comments and questions were off mic. Would have contributed so much to the discussion to know what everyone was saying,

[@ivapreckova7562]

Great. It can help to The rebirth of Israel, where both parties will finally firmly realize that if they do not rely on each other, take care of each other, no one else will be interested in it, because the other will use it to dismantle the "booty". As always did. Thank you.

[@annehalpin8516]

If you know the Palestinian story why not use that knowledge to work toward peace?

[@eze2167]

I agree with that but it’s just not realistically feasible. One of the issues I’ve observed is who are the people talking and willing to accept that ignorance (lack of knowledge) is present on both sides. So will I also think peace is possible the work to do so is not set in place based on current events. If anything people (youth especially) are becoming polarized. We need more voices highlighting the reconciliation approach!

[@BigB29357]

Because their ideas of peace are eerily similar to the peace of the Third Reich. But steamier. As in 10.7.

[@BigB29357]

What do you mean they don't know? They made MENA Jews refugees by the million! On purpose. Expecting the refugees to topple the fledgling with sheer numbers.

[@BigB29357]

These Elites are no more numerous than the Jewish elites of Odessa which moved to the Land of Israel.

[@ppetal1]

It's the rest of the world you need to worry about now.

[@Bell_plejdo568p]

What do u have to worry about the rest of the word for

[@stephenjohnstone8812]

@@Bell_plejdo568p Because the rest of the world now knows the truth about Israel, Israel will never, ever be the same again. Israel will never be at peace as long as it mistreats the indigenous people of the land it stole. Israelis are now seen as liken to Nazis and Nazi sympathisers; cruelty personified.

[@RacetasClub]

@@Bell_plejdo568p I assume the radicalization that takes place and the growing support towards terrorism and growing anti-semitic trends.

[@abbaquantum431]

One salient point to consider: Montgomery won North Africa with tanks: El Alamein (1942), vs Nazi General Rommel. Why? Because Hitler diverted petrol (for Rommel's tanks) to the "Eastern Front" to fight the USSR (the Hitler-Stalin non-aggression pact of 1939 which Hitler subsequently violated.). Indeed, Hitler was obsessed with beating up on Stalin and the USSR, to add glory and territory (Ukraine) to the 3rd Reich! It was this decision that cost Rommel his life (he was forced to commit suicide for "losing" to Montgomery to save face for Hitler) and!!! after that the Allied assault of Normandy (1944) was more likely to succeed because Hitler had diverted Nazi troops from where they were needed: the "western" front war (Normandy) because the Nazi troops had been sent to the "eastern" front: the USSR, to conquer Stalin and were stuck in the mud of USSR's "Spring Thaw" (remember Napoleon). So in a rather ironic and perverse sense, we have Hitler to thank for Montgomery winning North Africa (and subsequently Southern Europe) and Eisenhower swooping down from Normandy to take out northern Europe held captive by the Nazis. Maybe a footnote of WW2 European front: Moshe Dayan the future heroic general of the 6 Day War in 1967, lost his left eye fighting for the Allies in an Australian infantry division (1941) against the Nazis in Syria. [Reminds us what Ben Gurion, leader of the future Israeli state said: and I must paraphrase here because it is not clear how the statement was actually constructed since it was in Hebrew: "We shall fight the Nazis as if there were no British (the military force keeping the peace in the Land of Israel, and favoring the Arabs (remember: Arab Oil) and we shall fight the British as if there were no war (WW2).

[@JJ-fr2ki]

1:36:04 We have an word for “non-look-awayable” it is “captivating”.

[@mjcruiser4238]

W O W Terrific lecture -lots to think about on both sides

[@MrMightyMido]

There are no two sides. There were innocent Jewish refugees manipulated and broken by the Imperial West and now they've picked the Imperialists baton in this delusional of self preservation is justification. Now the jailed has become the jailer. The oppressed has become the oppressor. Evil is evil. Don't get me wrong, as a Muslim I proudly say fuck Islamism and most certainly antisemitism. But what Israel is, that's just shameful.

[@zeroonetime]

Thank you for the enlightenment. Now I am brighter. Thank you

[@IshaqIbrahim3]

Is this true or false?

[@Heddyconfetti]

No, you have lost a few more cells.

[@intuitionist1]

Does being indoctrinated make you glow in the dark?

[@nunifreudenberg4442]

Very good! I enjoyed every second!!!

[@TheAlbinoskunk]

Whilst it is nice to see the audience interaction and hear the students' perspectives being widened by Haviv's charismatic presentation, it is a somewhat distracting format for this video. Would be good to hear the same lecture series presented as a lecture rather than a seminar, to make it more efficient at conveying the narrative.

[@julianholman7379]

what's an Arab ? Is the Levant in Arabia ? Or is language defining ? But if so the eastern Jews were Arabs too, n'est-ce pas ?

[@ef2718]

Jews follow the culture of Judea, language of Judea and religion of Judea. Arabs follow the culture of Arabia, language of Arabia and religion of Arabia. Jews - Judea. Arabs - Arabia.

[@whazzat8015]

@@ef2718 You can say that again

[@amandab1064]

​@@ef2718 The religion of Arabia? What about the Arab Jews, Christians, Druze, Zoroastrians ....? Arabs are a semitic people whose main language is Arabic (a semitic language, like Hebrew, is where the term semitic comes from) who spread from the Arabian Peninsula to inhabit other parts of the ME and N Africa throughout thousands of years of migration. Arabs are first mentioned in Biblical and Assyrian texts of the 9th to 5th centuries BC where they inhabited parts of present-day Syria, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq.

[@pamelakoretsky336]

@@amandab1064 You should take "Palestine" off your list. There was never a country called Palestine. It was used by the Romans, the Ottoman Empire and the British to describe a large occupied area that included the area that was biblical/historically a Jewish homeland and what is now modern day Israel. There was no Arab state ever in what is now Israel. And Arabs were not Muslims in 9th and 5th Century BC. The Muslim faith was not invented until bout 500 years after Jesus's time. The second Temple was destroyed by the Roman empire about 70 years after Jesus and the apostles would have lived. And for about 150-300 years after Jesus's life his followers considered themselves Jews and were considered by the Romans as Jews. As more gentiles were converted and practices changed this also changed...so people who converted to "Christian" were actually converting to Judaism early on. Eventually the Rabbis determined that Christian practices no longer qualified as Jewish. so those following those practices and beliefs were no longer recognized as Jews. When Constantine converted and saw a belief in one God as a way to unify Rome and to be a more dominant ruler.

[@ThatguyRiz]

@@ef2718there no religion of Arabia. It’s Christianity, Islam, Judaism and beyond. Arabs can be of any of those religions while remaining Arabic and speaking Arabic.

[@macbuff81]

Great presentation. I loved college for these types of lectures. Nuance

[@CotesDuQ]

I saw him refer to much of this info in his interview on The Free Press but there is much more back story and detail here. Fascinating perspective.

[@jqyhlmnp]

The more coffee and less of sleep, the harder it is to “slow it down” Listen to all the students try to ask a question and the lecturer respond so haphazardly like he’s in a 50s comedy 😭

[@Lumbergh42]

So do I crank up the audio to hear the students or do I lower it to make the speaker's yelling more bearable, hmmm

[@jeffspicolli593]

Distraction/projecting.