The Corvette as a model citizen - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 34

[@pacheaco727]

Rest of the world: drives like a boat Hyphen: aquatic vagueness

[@duileyah]

Pacheaco rest of the world: school Hyphen: Stanford

[@kristisrb]

Also everyone: looks crap Hyphen: regrettable aesthetic choice I love his way of phrasing

[@HandsomeAlex25]

Rest of the world: it's ugly Hyphen: "exessively busy and incoherent and appears to have come from the desk of a 14 year old" (48:47)

[@TheEdshemery]

@48:00 - I wonder, if now 5 yrs later, they still feel the same way. I initially did not car for the C8’s body lines, but they grew on me. Today I own a 2024 and I absolutely love it. I did a complete 180.

[@payko5262]

"I'm going to insult you now." >Derek is Tam-Hyphen-Shocked

[@jjjfo1818]

I love how you used two hyphens along with the word hyphen 😂😂😂

[@francoisg3500]

Congratulations you guys finally have a sponsor!

[@abalakrishnan4152]

Jason when are you doing a collaboration with Throttle House again? The one in January was AMAZING!

[@starshipteddy9871]

Agreed!

[@marcarmstrong1721]

Hell ya support Les Canadians

[@Fee.1]

Never. Oh wait those are Canadians not the car throttle idiot ok that’s cool

[@JasonCammisa]

Soon as they're stupid enough to get on a plane and come to California. Which is likely not soon, given our COVID numbers. And I'm still very upset that I dropped half-dead on that shoot and it was apparently only the flu, not even COVID. They tried to kill me... with the flu!?

[@qtrfoil]

Probably not American "sports cars" but there was a thriving car culture in the States beginning after WWII, especially in California. The heavy modification of cars there, for performance purposes, brought Shelby to LA, for example. That might be the birth of the American approach to cars for a sporting purpose. Buick 215s, OHV and pushrods. Used by Rover for 40+ years. Still in production, bored out, in Land Rovers? It's not quite a "family" resemblance, with little DNA in common, but Jason has a type, and it's the raked windscreens and long hoods of cars like the C2, C3, Aston Martin, and 944 that gets us both.

[@SamotLS7]

Last time I was this early the corvette was still front-engine

[@dipren443]

The early c4’s did in fact have a four speed, sort of. It was called the 4+3. Made by Doug Nash transmissions. It was basically a Borg Warner Super T-10 four speed with an available electronically controlled overdrive in 2,3,4. This was replaced by a ZF six speed later in the run.

[@gravel_trap]

Every time I watch one of these videos I’m inspired to go for a drive! I love the knowledge you share every episode, keep it up!

[@sofielee4122]

8:53 all I can hear is RCR going "HERES MY TOY CAR, HEARS MY REAL CAR" at Jason at some obscure cars and coffee edit: just about every aircraft piston engine is pushrod in the US, so I wouldnt be surprised if european ones are the same

[@rytisvitenas5784]

WHICH CORVETTE IS BEST CORVETTE?

[@Hildepedia]

I sooo look forward to new episodes and enjoy the banter and always learn something. I’m certain my wife wouldn’t make it they 1 minute (tops) without thinking in a complete idiot for spending HOURS listening to these episodes. Thinking I’m not alone?

[@ervin7178]

Yeah even my friends who are into cars think this shit is way too nerdy, but that’s why I love it

[@_-_911]

@@ervin7178 Same. I honestly prefer the show to most of the reviewers around. And then, there are Cammisa reviews, which are on another level.

[@bonkle_boi]

I... I some of these models cost several THOUSAND dollars I thought you guys were kidding when you said it would be more valuable than Cammisa's Scirocco

[@JasonCammisa]

We do not kid. We're very serious.

[@subarnosinha8042]

Rolls Royce/Bentley 6¾ litre V8 was a pushrod motor. Starting 1959, it was in production for 61 years. CVCC stands for Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion.

[@leokal457]

The thing with the Corvette in Europe is, that its greatest asset, the low price, is almost nonexistent. You can get a Cayman GTS 4.0 fully specced for the price of a completely standard Corvette. I think in America the Corvette is about half the price of a Cayman GTS 4.0

[@STRGHTSXBNZ]

import duties are a bitch

[@saturndesigns2339]

LeoKal corvette starts at $60k here while the cayman is $87k, much rather have the cayman tho

[@su47forever]

yea same here in china, you can get an Audi R8 or Porsche 911 GT3 for the price of a standard Corvette.

[@philspaghet]

Yeah Corvettes are WAY less expensive in the US. And used Z06 models are reaching the high $40k while Caymans are still at $50k, doesn't make much sense to buy a Cayman at that rate

[@Strike86]

Very true. American cars in general command a premium in Europe even if they're unpopular chod that nobody wants. If the Corvette sold here in the UK for the price of a BMW M3 you would see hundreds of them.

[@akramishmael5604]

I recently bought a C5 Z06 for about $20k. The thing I love about these cars is that they're fast and 'special' but not special enough that you want to save them in a garage. I take mine everywhere and do everything with it.

[@mikemustang5488]

Plus they are much lighter than those later Corvettes, which translates into much better road feel.

[@Wooooosaaaaaa]

Starts at 13:00 :) and might as well check out kzbin.info

[@Techtriib]

Yessss 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@californiagarage900]

Thank you!

[@californialoveoriginal9777]

Life saverb

[@TheWhiteO]

Thank you!

[@DriveLineZ]

I am definitely not a Corvette fan, but goodness do I adore my daily driven C6 Z06 with heads, cam, intake and Borla Ataks (539whp). The car is so woeful inside and out build-wise, a pussycat around town, but when you slam the throttle its like shoveling 300g of Viagra into a pensioner! The C6 Z06 is such a wonderful car to tinker with to make it really come alive. Its such a shitbox, but the experience is like no other. Its a bad car in a good way

[@jamesbeck3750]

I made the Corvette "go fast" comment above, but I completely agree with you. What wonderful sounding (and looking) cars.

[@andrewtorrisi345]

Only 540 wheel with heads and cam?

[@AlumarsX]

7 liters of freedom.

[@johnbacon4997]

@@andrewtorrisi345 What do you drive If you dont mind me asking?

[@andrewtorrisi345]

@@johnbacon4997 09 CTS-V

[@benonj]

"VW...great engineering that got them to be clean enough". Yeah, I've heard that before.

[@TheEdshemery]

@44:55 - My C6 had that grumpy rough idle after start-up, and I loved it. My C8 is a smooth idle immediately.

[@sanjaymehta6948]

C4 ZR-1 is a GREAT driving car. Full stop. Go drive one, fellas. The LT5 was a gem in stock trim, and a monster when modified. The ZF6 is incredibly smooth shifting compared to the previous clunky 4+3 ( and even the T56 in the C5). Bet you'll love them, and they are bargains as you noted.

[@bobbymathews9148]

A 20,000$ model of the Tata Nano would be hilarious

[@AtulLasrado]

It would probably be better than the car itself

[@grabthewheel4217]

Cammisa thanks for keeping it real. Chevy small block does sound divine compared to any of the small displacement European turbo V8's.

[@abalakrishnan4152]

42:46 jason this is why you're my favorite journalist

[@maxswenson7933]

Free shipping on a $17,000 model McLaren? Yes please!!😂😂I'm sorry but if ur spending that much money I feel like shipping doesn't matter lmao good for them tho

[@TheImperfectGuy]

Believe me, there are no cheaper people than the insanely rich, unless it's something that can be used to impress others or themselves (shipping not included)

[@conservativeokie]

C7’s were absolutely my favorite thus far!!!

[@heekim3373]

Just learned so much, especially the second half of the podcast.

[@acrspeed]

The best $20,000 model: Dodge Dynasty. Btw, I'm still waiting for the Spotlight episode on the utterly magnificent Chevrolet Celebrity Eurosport.

[@jamesbeck3750]

. . . and it's uncle , the Chevy Citation X-11!!

[@GhassanAlHarthy]

My 2016 Camaro SS also cranks exactly the way you presented when it's hot.

[@conservativeokie]

ZO6’s were extremely fun to drive! A bit scary, but certainly fun!! I loved the engine!

[@NewfieOn2Wheels]

amalgam should make a model of a 1999 buick century in beige

[@jamesbeck3750]

with wire wheel hubcaps

[@leotam3372]

The regular car reviews special

[@pussygalore5947]

I'll up the ante, so to speak: There are many in your viewing audience who are "Turning Japanese" when Hyphen takes his shirt off.

[@TechnoLawyer]

Your comments on the C2 are so spot on. I own a '64. Fully restored, but with a cammed LT1 (90s era) and T56 replacing the original junk, and with a brake upgrade (I think they are off a C4; can't quite recall). The steering wheel is gigantic, the car floats all over place, and it is objectively terrible. But its terribleness, combined with the fact it's fairly quick due to weighing nothing and probably having an honest 310-320hp, and with the super loud exhaust note from the side pipes, make it hilarious to drive. I also have a low mileage all original '89 mustang GT. And a new Jeep Compass as a daily. I guess I have a thing for terrible vehicles 😂 (I'll actually defend the compass though, since they sell for like 8k under sticker; I paid like 22k for a brand new one with the pretty leather option, the giant sunroof, and the upgraded stereo. As an appliance, with that heavy discount, it ain't bad)

[@blueridgegarage]

Interesting Corvette episode. C2 is one beautiful creation. C6 is the last raw Corvette. C4 is so 80’s....

[@Snowkone81]

My ninjas Jason and Derek - keep up the great car content!

[@G55STEYR]

44:45 No misfires! They just sound uneven because crossplane crankshaft causes 2 cyl on the same bank to fire in sequence so it sounds monstrous which it is and should be! Aaand increses testosterone production

[@evalonious]

"Obligatory Flack..." It's like taxes.... Fantastic content by the way!

[@juansequeirabaquero1780]

Jason’s signature has to read “discount Sandler hates you” & Dereks should just say “hyphen”

[@ryanspear9229]

Good episode, waiting for you guys to do corvettes

[@johnpainter8090]

first modern corvette with fuel injection is the 1982 C3 corvette, "Crossfire Injection"

[@jez_stephensanotherapex5921]

Throttle body injection; only two injectors and a wet manifold. It took 2 decades for real “port” FI to return to the ‘Vette, i.e. 1985’s L98.

[@sickstringbender1364]

The c4 had a 4+3 speed option. It was an electronically controled 4 speed with a button on the shifter that would go from 7 back to 2 when you floored it and shift back thru the gears by itself. Just awesome for early 80's.

[@torytronrud2413]

I might buy a model of a Pontiac Aztec.

[@randysearle2702]

90-92 ZR1's had 375 you goofballs. 93-95 up to 405....

[@Jerbartolo]

My ‘91 ZR1 summed up: better handling, better steering feel, faster, and a more visceral experience than my Porsche 996 with similar interior quality. Jason/Derek you are welcome to drive it if you are ever in Orlando.

[@tonyflorio3269]

One other thing: the reason the C2 (and the C3 that shared a basically carry-over chassis) shifts so nicely is because the gear linkage is mounted to the frame, not the transmission, so it doesn't need a lot of rubber bushings. At least according to C&D's test of '71 Vettes with Zora himself: www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15141356/1971-chevrolet-corvette-road-test/. No, I don't own a Corvette, but I am a car nerd!

[@badlybent1959]

the C4 was originally equipped with the Doug Nash 4+3 speed manual transmission.

[@STRGHTSXBNZ]

you mean the bowl of glass?

[@abalakrishnan4152]

44:28 oh so THAT'S how the Revolutionary War was won.

[@diedrichfilms6437]

1973 C3 Stingray is the definition of a sexy car. There never has and never will be a sexier vehicle. No contest

[@conservativeokie]

C3’s are amazing, if by amazing you really mean sitting on and driving a brick over other bricks!

[@willsullivan3]

Jason, I swear I just subscribed just for your engine-sound mimicry. ALL of your engine sounds are spectacularly spot-on. Plus hilarious. Do you think you could do a whole show of 'em? I swear that I, at least, would happily sit through the whole thing. Houzabout--say--a major comic movie adventure with--say--Ryan Reynolds as your straight-man/deadpan older brother...with you doing nutty, exagerated versions of that shtick throughout. Kevin Hart as your best friend/sidekick/protege in the car-sound sweepstakes. I'll write the script. You pitch it in character.

[@willsullivan3]

Ed Bolian as himself. You get to do one-off mimicry of his latest, limping supercar jalopy.

[@willsullivan3]

Derek, with all his beeps and boops--in a white lab coat--plays the "Q"-like character, bolting superchargers to everything.

[@brandonherrera2891]

Quick corrections. The last year C3, 1982, was EFI. Same as the 84 C4. Also, all manual Corvettes from 1989-1996 were 6 speed manual. Made by ZF. EDIT: You guys need to get a clean 92-96 C4 LT1/LT4/LT5 on a track with new tires. Don't say they can't handle until you have driven one. I'm serious, take one out. Same for the C5.

[@zacht9447]

C3 is the best looking corvette in my opinion I love the way they look especially the 1970 427 Also the C8 should have just pulled out some of the sound insulation, and ditched the stupid speaker engine noise BS They Fuel injected the C3 in 1982 with the crossfire injection

[@cliftonfrey1174]

They should make an opal

[@dougrobinson8602]

There was no 1983 Corvette because of the lead time in developing the C4. The 1982 Corvette had a dreadful Crossfire fuel injection. No manual option, either. The ZR-1 is cheap because the engines are very expensive to fix, and parts are scarce. They drive quite well.

[@dipren443]

Zr1 was a resurrected name plate too. Very rare option on some C3’s.

[@zodiacmanan]

I love my model cars. They sit in my office cube and make life better.

[@Michael_Lorenson]

Sorry, but you guys don't know enough about past Corvettes to have an accurate discussion about them. It's OK, I still love ya. For just one example, the C4, which gets no respect today, was arguably the best handling sports car in the world, until at least around 1990. It was balanced, sharp, refined, and had no real vices. It also had Porsche-level brakes, a mountain of torque with competitve horsepower for the time, leading edge wheel and tire combos, and reasonable mass (C4s weigh about 3,300 lbs). In stock form, it was quicker around a typical road course than ANYTHING else you could buy, at any price. Only the vastly more expensive Porsche 928 was anywhere near it, really. The 944 could claim outstanding handling and brakes, but was hopelessly outclassed in power and flat-out speed. I won't even get into the factory supported Callaway turbo cars, or the ZR-1.

[@woodypwx]

I agree 100% with the C8 vs C7 design comparison.

[@sanjaymehta6948]

So there was never a 5 speed Vette from the factory. C4 got the Doug Nash 4+3 with an automatic OD in the 3 upper gears. The ZF 6 speed came out in '89, in the base car that actually preceded the ZR-1, which was actually delayed til MY '90.

[@puruchaudhary22]

Jason is the best person i've ever seen and derek has got to be the best fucking guy to talk to about cars ever! I literally could not have asked for a better car podcast. Love the show guys, keep it up!

[@Crysmatic]

The blue flame was so named because a clean burning flame burns blue. The C8 weighs more than the Cadillac ATS. And Ford just came out with the 7.3L OHV V8. Walks all over DOHC for low speed torque, fuel efficiency, compactness, torque, easy to fix, low cost...things that actually matter.

[@benbrown2119]

....in trucks.

[@nathanchildress5596]

I’ve heard the C8 has very adjustable alignment, so you can dial out understeer with camber pretty quick if you want.

[@victorhs258]

What about the possibility of a C8 Flat Crank in the upcoming Z06? I thought the GT350R talk was going to be the segue to it, I was wrong. I think there was some fringe car magazine article about it too. As always love the show, awesome job you guys have and do.

[@Laguna2013]

Do these models have cologne inside them? Hai Karate?

[@leotam3372]

Never did I think that I'd enjoy the shifter sound of a C2 so much - those M21s and M22s are so cool C3s should drive like a C2 - same chassis The C6 Z06 is 3200lbs ish The throttle house guys were understeering on public roads at not that fast speeds on their C8

[@garythecyclingnerd6219]

Nah, outrageously expensive is about right. I thought a $500 model was a lot. Nope. Try $10-$18 THOUSAND dollars. This is a tier of wealth I will never be in.

[@evalonious]

I love it already! And I'm not even 20 seconds in...! Oh Hyphen...

[@grimreaperss]

how i feel about the c8 is the same way how people in 1968 when the c3 came out and it was changed quite a bit, the corvette is evolving into the future version of cars which is this time period

[@mattcampbell5507]

I definitely started looking at the amalgam website for custom one offs for my Fiesta ST.

[@dmk0210]

The interesting thing about GM during the period of the birth and early years of the Corvette is the company was ruled by the stylists. Harley Earl, and later his protégé, Bill Mitchell had very strong political power over what was made . The engineers, such as Zora Duntov played almost a support role. Zora is a hero for what he was able to accomplish in that environment and set the Corvette on a path that didn't come to full fruition until the C4 and C5. It wasn't until then that it actually became a true world class sports car.

[@michaelharrison1093]

You are certainly not the first to make the connection between the "little red corvette" and the Ford Edsel. Evidently this has something to do with what the front bumper and vertical oval grill was meant to look like on the Edsel.

[@bradcomis1066]

I’d imagine adding a bit of extra camber and/or front tire width should solve the balance problem on the C8, no?

[@amirmasoudsepehr4947]

46:53 What about Maserati's 4.7, Jason?

[@JasonCammisa]

It sounds good. In fact, from what I've heard, the Alfa 8C (which uses that engine, no?) could be the best sound. But I'd need to drive one.

[@amirmasoudsepehr4947]

@@JasonCammisa Yeah, I assume it's the same engine. You really need to drive one. It's eargasmic!😂

[@arjaitheoriginal]

Do a 1976 Mercury Monarch.

[@jamesbeck3750]

when you walk through the parking lot you get it mixed up with a Mercedes 450sl . . .

[@evano8312]

Damn that C8 burn

[@nasser.alkenani]

Isn't the Bentley Mulsanne's engine still has push rods?🤔

[@karacop78]

I'm always amazed about how the American sports car makers dropped the power after the energy crisis when at the same time European sports cars evolved their smaller engines to produce more power while improving their handling. Derek mentioned a 425hp edition of Corvette of the late '60s when Europeans were a few horses behind, but after that the situation reversed until today when Ferrari, Lambo or McLaren are miles ahead of their US counterparts. Double (or more) the price though, so who won at the end, I don't know. The most interesting thing is that both branches of that evolution tree haven't reached a dead end yet.

[@ebauer427]

the beard is back. JC was clean-face-shamed.

[@JasonCammisa]

No sir, I'm just lazy!

[@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921]

The stability on track is proven. The ride quality on the road is proven. Track settings are provided and nobody but channels affiliated with Cammisa are reporting understeer as a problem. Even the German test gave the C8 high marks, and will continue to do so when the car is officially sold in Europe. Something is up here, and its always about Porsches valuation of twice as much. You cant create want no matter how many times you scream luxury. Apple products in Asia and Europe should have been the lesson.

[@marcnobel3938]

The only Corvette I want for real is a C4 used by Face in The A-Team Series. White with the red stripe going around it. One day I will make that happen.

[@lukemcmahon2248]

I’m wondering Jason. When would you consider in doing a review or “preview” at a hsv gtsr w1 sedan or Ute? Love to see your opinion on what is considered to be the best sport/ track focused road cars made in Australia.

[@86surge90]

49:53 You mention the rear is too long, at least it's not long like the Saleen S7. Pretty car but that rear goes on for days compared to the corvette.

[@05Forenza]

Not that I have even a few hundred to spend on a model right now, but I would SO get a commissioned model of my 2019 VW Golf Alltrack, 6 speed manual, SE with Appearance. lmao

[@robertmardosian727]

Great episode boys. I've always felt the corvette is America's Ferrari, mass produced. The classic corvettes would be priced as much as classic Ferrari's if their production number was below 500 for each year.

[@jamesbeck3750]

Good point about the power of low production numbers on price!

[@nicholaspirnia7809]

I sort of get why people rag on pushrods, but it is all rather specious reasoning since displacement has a surprisingly casual relationship with engine weight and size. The C5’s LS1 engine is actually lighter than the flat-6 in the 986 Boxster, despite the LS1 making another 100 bhp. If an engine is heavier and makes less power, why does it matter if it has a better specific output?

[@Rosati21]

There is a PSCM reprogram for the 2015 -2019 gt350's for the issue I believe

[@JasonCammisa]

Ooh I hadn't heard that.

[@triaxe-mmb]

Chevy should spin-off Corvette as its own brand and then they can do a traditional FR set up as an alternative and then push the current C8 up market and price to not try and satisfy all people and thus satisfy none...not likely to happen but I can dream. 😊

[@TheBucketOfTruth]

The old Audi RS4's V8 sounds good. The new ones sound shit cause they're all turbocharged.

[@professeurslow6471]

The manual one, b7 sound good, the RS4 b8 is a V10 with 2 cylinders shaved...

[@jez_stephensanotherapex5921]

I love you guys but it seems clear that it’s easier for y’all to get nostalgic about imports; not that there’s anything wrong with that. . . Especially when you disclose that your not ‘Vette experts. Stay safe!

[@jsquared1013]

It's easier to get nostalgic about imports because from that era there was almost nothing domestic that was worth a damn.

[@afhyoutube]

The C8 looks like a generic sports car from Grand Theft Auto.

[@ChaosphereIX]

Jason, please do not wear a hoodie next time. The mic rubbing was quite something...

[@TheLoopmeister]

C2 shifter better than a s2000?

[@simonhudak3763]

Amalgam should make a rusty Geo Metro

[@flacjacket]

They should make a Merkur XR4Ti one.

[@adbt20]

Amalgam Bentley Arnage !!!

[@fonzolatrundo9140]

C3 was available with fuel injection late in the game . The "Crossfire Injection". Lousy throttle body stuff...

[@fzj8022]

C2 also had fuel injection

[@fonzolatrundo9140]

So true, I forgot about the early fuelie cars. Not too many kept that system. Nobody knew how to keep it tuned. The first time I saw the Crossfire Injection logo on a Vette I was 10 years old. I thought it had something to do with the twisted 4 into 1 headers on the side pipes that car carried. Had no idea what injection was. Neither did Chevy apparently!

[@roguedogx]

14:14 I know of the shelby daytona, GT40, and thanks to one crazy brit taking it touring car racing the technically the impala. 15:45 I would actually be okay with it, but it's the attitude of the straight 6 that matters. it has to be a Barra, TVR, or the Jeep/AMC straight 6. meaning it has to have a bit of knuckle dragger attitude to it. if it had a BMW S50 feel to it, then I would joint the revolt.

[@joshbrown4907]

The one V8 that I feel sounds just as good if not better is the M156.

[@artsohc]

Derek...a 911 owner...has a Tag Heuer Carrera watch. He’s in too deep.

[@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo]

Every 911 owner owns a huer.....but the true nerds buy vintage Huers......

[@JuanLopez-kw9of]

It should have been Tag Heuer Monaco Gulf to be exact !

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

I also collect model cars, most of them I build myself and some are die casts.

[@frozencarguy6274]

1978 Chevette

[@jamesbeck3750]

When our family Corolla was hit and wrecked, we had a rental Chevette for a hit. Turn-in wasn't bad!