Why FWD Doesn't Suck - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 72

The front-wheel-drive platform is one that has been historically not taken seriously by many driving enthusiasts. After all, given all of the responsibility of moving AND steering the vehicle while stuffing the weight of an engine over the front wheels, who wouldn’t agree that FWD is always the inferior choice to RWD?
Today’s episode of The Carmudgeon Show is all about the unspoken glory of front-wheel-drive and its general tendency to be misunderstood by enthusiasts across the board. Despite having owned a small minority of FWD cars in their pasts, Jason and Derek cover all the bases of how and why the dynamics of FWD handling tend to be overlooked in the real world- including but not limited to the truth behind understeer, weight transfer, and overall chassis tuning that can make a FWD driving experience far more enjoyable than its favored RWD counterpart.
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network.

[@emiliorescigno]

This conversation reeks of dry climate driving! AWDrifting through a snowy intersection during a blizzard is a feeling second to none :)

[@braapforce]

This

[@snek9353]

Absolutely, and as much as he dislikes Dodge it's obvious he's never driven an AWD one.

[@thatpinkgixxer5307]

Awd drift in the rain so so sweet

[@snek9353]

@@thatpinkgixxer5307 Soooo sweet, most of all at speed. Well you know, fast for the rain.

[@camogecko456]

​@@snek9353 I am not sure what AWD dodge you are talking about because dodge doesn't have any good awd cars. In fact besides SUVs all they have is the awd option for the v6 auto challenger/charger... it's ok when you compare them to cheaper fwd economy cars... but not even close to any actually sporty cars in the same price bracket. Such as a WRX, GR Corolla, Golf R, Focus RS, basically any X-drive BMW etc. I don't think any AWD dodge would impress anyone who has driven a sports car. Not even Dodge's marketing department would try to convince you their cars handle well. They go real fast in a straight line if you pay a lot of money. God bless em for it too 🇺🇸 🇺🇲

[@JK061996]

39:38 the 1969 Fiat 128 was the template that everyone followed in terms of "modern" FWD cars. Engineered by Dante Giacosa, it had a transverse engine with a gearbox beside it, unequal length driveshafts and 4-wheel independent suspension. In fact Volkswagen bought one and completely disassembled it when they were creating the Mk1 Golf.

[@Dtamscott]

This is the car I was thinking of when I said “I think I’m forgetting something”!

[@llys3742]

Giacosa's design worthy of mention is the hollow driveshaft on the short side, and solid driveshaft on the long side to match the torsional rigidity, thus reducing torque steer.

[@olivertasevski-cdphe8943]

Oh yeah, my dad had the Zastava (Yugo) version of that, the 101.

[@nah3193]

If you set up a FWD right to where you can control your rotation just by how much you lift off in a corner it is a blast. Also people don't appreciate how much better new tires are, the limits are not quite as low as they used to be.

[@R3LF13]

Why my Fiesta ST is so fun on a tight road.

[@nah3193]

@@R3LF13 I love those things. My favorite car to drive in Forza Horizon with a sim setup.

[@snek9353]

Can you explain?

[@nah3193]

@@snek9353 It's referred to as lift off oversteer. Similar idea to trailbraking. You're shifting the weight forward which lightens the back tires and helps them come around easier. It is more noticeable at higher RPMs where you get more of the engine braking effect. As far as setup most FWD cars understeer stock so you can do things like stiffer rear sway bar, higher spring rates, higher pressure, run less camber than the front, etc to get slightly less grip from the rear than the front tires.

[@snek9353]

@@nah3193 I should have asked a more specific question, didn't want to put much into a reply to a 5 month old comment though. More specifically I can understand how it might be a "blast" much like putting fast food trays under your tires can be a "blast". I don't see how it isn't generally stupid as the car would be really unstable? I also see why you might call it lift oversteer but a big aspect of traditional lift oversteer is the rear tires of a RWD car doing the braking. This not only transfers weight front but overloads the traction limits of the rear tires. By compression braking a RWD car into a turn one is both removing weight from the rear while simultaneously increasing the traction needs of the rear causing a rear slide. Trying to accomplish this same thing with a FWD car and only compression braking would require a much more unstable situation because nothing but weight transfer is decreasing rear traction. This would mean it'd have to be done with much more side loading at which point the car will want to instantly snap around as soon as it lets loose at all. Your how it's done is basically a list of how to remove rear traction. Such a car would just be wicked slow and dangerous. Unstable under almost all conditions and very prone to flipping around. It may be a "blast" at times, but shouldn't go anywhere near anything is shouldn't hit at any speed. Might as well just hand brake or use trays.

[@redlion145]

I'd totally watch a whole podcast in Jason's German and Derek's French. Kind of a foregone conclusion how it'd go though.

[@Charlie-Charlot]

As a french I can say that Derek’s accent is actually quite good

[@6rimR3ap3r]

I'd invite both of them to a Currywurst and have a chat about their progress on the Piech episode in German :-D

[@justinschultz4325]

It's interesting to hear Jason put into words how I've always felt about FWD. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[@j.a.g.8689]

He's always been the voice for FWD

[@spacepxl]

Small correction: GTI's exhaust side is on the back, by the firewall. The exhaust manifold is integrated into the head though, so it's basically just a turbo mounted directly to the block, and then a downpipe.

[@MohamedAli965]

I used to follow this podcast religiously when it was uploaded to ISSIMI, glad to have found it again

[@PeakVT]

34:12 Minor correction: the Chrysler LH cars were derived from the Eagle Premier, which was an Americanized Renault 25. The Renault Alliance (R9/R11) was two sizes smaller and had transverse engine. The car in between (Medallion/R21) was also longitudinal. All of it came to Chrysler via the AMC merger.

[@alanperry8676]

Well, to be fair, there was all sorts of details that he got wrong in that segment.

[@racesuey]

FWD can be utilized for its advantages and I think good example is Elantra N, which had most amazing stable cornering feel in sweeping corner situation because E-LSD was pulling you while being kinda in understeer state (like what jason said 23:30). So power gives you this "on rail" feel. But at the same time, this car also have extreme understeer at very limit like other performance FWD cars like all the reasons mentioned in the podcast... I do get midengine car understeers like fwd car but I think one thing that is over looked in turn-in. My Evora, even more so on Elise, turns in super lovely until it understeers.

[@uzzyhr]

So Camisa has been tuning that Scirocco for 25 years,no wonder it suits him so well.

[@EpilepticNinja24]

Thank you for creating a masterpiece over and over , among the most enjoyable hours of the week for me.

[@RoughCutsLtd]

I once created a spreadsheet that compared top gear lap times, using some of the quickest fwd cars and averaging the horsepower of the same speed rwd vehicles. So long as the chassis is sorted the fwd vehicles only needed around 2/3 the power to keep up. I sent it to Tiff Needell and he agreed, but said RWD is more fun. Having driven both on track I'm not sure I agree, but I'm not as good a driver as he is.

[@sushiwalrus5333]

Congrats Jason on quitting smoking for 20 years!

[@thegirthquake8574]

Jason, try putting ITB's on that 2zz-- I bet that'd fix your noise complaints! The kits do exist!

[@nirfz]

The part about the 911 in the end is one reason why i haven't bought a used one a few years ago but went for an AMG. Happens way too often to me that i need to emergency brake in corners. (Can also happen on snow here). If i remember correct, one disadvantage not mentioned for FWD cars often is the tyre wear: the front tires wear way more than the back tyres. Even without doing any burnouts. So don't forget ti "rotate" them as you say in the US. At least that was the case with drivers and their cars in my family and with the company cars at my workplace. I personally never owned a fwd car. I am currently on cars 5 and 6 (in 24 years of driving) and apart from #6 every car was rwd. It may sound stupid to others (mostly here in europe) but the behavior of fwd cars on snow scares me: I am used to "feel" how slippery it is with the throttle and that whatever i do "wrong" with my foot on the throttle, the front of the car keeps gripping and my steering input stays relevant. With the company cars, first time on snow and to much throttle i almost s... my pants when the car just went straight and any steering input didn't matter. That to me feels like not being in control, and i have no muscle memory to react correctly in such a situation. Which brings me to awd: the one i have is a permanent one with an open center diff (and an additional clutch in the center if front and rear differ too much). And i haven't had it do what the fwd company cars do. On the throttle it can be described as boring, very boring actually, but it isn't scary. In the first winter with new good winter tires i could not get it to break traction on the throttle unless i turned the steering quite far and used kickdown and kept throttle on the floor. (given it's a 170 hp 400NM Diesel, but snow is slippery after all) Then it got a little fun, but strangely it felt like a computergame i had: "Colin McRae Rally 2.0" The thing with the awd is, i would call it somewhat dangerous actually: with rwd you are always remindes how much traction on snow and ice you have, so if you aren't going for something that has no place in traffic, you will most likely be travelling at safe speeds. With an awd that doesn't brake traction at all, you do not notice how slippery it really is and will travel way too fast for the circumstances until you need to brake, and then the eyes get big because the big box won't stop as fast as anticipated. (Hence i try to always remind myself to go slower than it seems reasonable on snow and ice in that car.)

[@OaksCU1]

Good point about gauging how slippery it is with a RWD car. I went from having a 3 series to an Accord, and being able to feel in a straight line when it started to get slippery was very useful, you got a chance to lower your speed safely and not being surprised by the lack of grip in a corner or when coming to a stop.

[@snek9353]

Interesting comment, most of all about understanding your traction levels while driving. I want to toss two interesting things in. I drive truck(lorry) in the US, and do so in snowy mountains a lot. We have selectable lockers, an interlock between axles and lockers in the axles. On slick roads I purposefully leave them unlocked, that way only one wheelset can spin and I can feel that to better understand traction conditions and act accordingly. My AWD car has 3 times the HP and is a RWD based clutch type system. The system doesn't really apply power to the front axle unless and until the rear is slipping but then does to instantly. This gives me excellent feedback as I can feel both occurring.

[@camogecko456]

That is my exact experience. I tried to explain how I actually felt way more in control in my G35 then their newer fwd car and they thought I was crazy since everyone here always laments about how bad rwd is in the snow. I had been turning at a pretty slow speed and all of the sudden the car just kept saling in one direction with no warning. It is terrifying and I had no communication that I was losing grip before it happened. I think the hydraulic vs electric steering is a big part of that. You can't intuitively feel your traction and what the wheels are doing in newer fwd cars with electric PS. At least those not designed to be sporty. Another factor is I can actually hear the wheels losing grip in older less sound insulated cars and that makes me feel more in control as well.

[@ryankassel5691]

Dang, 20 years without a cigarette, good for you Jason.

[@stevemartegani]

Driving my FWD 93 Impreza with a 02 WRX swap(still kept it FWD) has been a TON of fun :D Way more exciting than any of the many AWD Subarus ive had.

[@2doublerats]

Mini Cooper, baby!!! I love my R53, it's bumpy and fun and hilarious. Makes me want to drive a Veloster N, but I'm worried I'd want to buy one.

[@olneydetail1487]

Finally a topic I can relate too, I drive a 2005 ŚKODA mk1 Octavia VRS which is built on the mk4 Golf/rabbit. But I've turned it into the car she should have been from the factory but doing OE+ upgrades so she's now got a TT Strut brace and faster steering rack, S3 subframe brace, mk4 R32 sway bar, KYB shocks but OE springs, whiteline rear sway bar, full stainless exhaust with cat delete, upgrade 205 50 17 tyres too 225 45 17 Goodyear eagle f1, all bushes upgraded and a stage 1 tune. She is the car that should have been built.

[@olneydetail1487]

SCAM ALERT.

[@REFfigy]

RX-8 Flooding issue was only on low-compression cars. If your engine had above 90psi it shouldn't flood, even if you turned it off after a second. Lots of RX-8s came with low compression from factory though so it was a common issue.

[@narrowistheway77]

I grew up with a tuned Saab 900S with a manual transmission that I learned to drive with and I realized early on that FWD was awesome for certain styles of driving. There’s actually some incredible drifting that can be done with FWD if one is inclined to get fast and loose using the E-brake through corners 😉

[@TonyBasuro]

Yessss. Drag braking and hard yanking.

[@narrowistheway77]

@@TonyBasuro yeah, it’s a very different strategy than traditional RWD drifting hahaha, but if your steering rack is really good you can get even more sideways in a FWD than you can in a RWD 😂👍🏼

[@transparentdrawing7292]

Every time there is a new Carmugin episode, I get just as excited as I used to get when an issue of Roundel magazine would show up. I’m no longer drinking the BMW Kool-Aid. Loving my GTI. Also loving you guys. Peace.

[@tonyflorio3269]

Maybe my favourite episode! I've owned fwd and rwd and you need to adapt your driving to the characteristics the platform. Both can provide joy! One thing: it's a lot easier to end up with a relatively small light and useful FWD car thanks to packaging efficiency. My '84 Civic could carry four and had a sub-2000 lb curb weight making it delightful to toss into a corner.

[@Diecastclassicist]

In my experience, RWD is much more fun on a dry road, but FWD is much safer in rainy or snowy conditions, especially in traffic. I haven’t gotten to the end of the video yet, but Im surprised I haven’t heard either of you mention the Lancia Fulvia yet…

[@OaksCU1]

If you still take questions for the Q&A: Why do we like the sound of a turbocharged 5 cylinder more than a naturally aspirated one, while a turbocharged 6 or 8 cylinder engine usually sounds worse than it's naturally aspirated counterpart?

[@sadubone]

I drive an 06 Acura RSX base. With adjustable coilovers, wider tires and a good alignment the car is an absolute blast to drive. I keep telling myself I want a rear wheel drive 6 cylinder car for more excitement. But then I get back in the RSX and it's so analog, light weight and has all the right noises. I would love to be able to afford an old 911. Until then.

[@benbrown2119]

The Glas with the timing belt debuted in 1962.

[@Gemini_0815]

36:00 no no, got to point out a mistake Jason. it doesn’t enter the oil pan. It’s a version of the ZF transmission with integrated transfer and diff. And the side shafts go through the torque converter bell housing of the transmission.

[@nolanhayden4432]

The Poncho SOHC six was actually earlier with a timing belt, coming out in 1966!

[@benhow47]

Would love that list of most fun cars on the market today (or until recently, like the Veloster N).

[@payko5262]

If you're shopping, Fiesta ST. It starts off set up very playfully from the factory, and if you're smart with mods you can make every little bit better and more laugh-inducing.

[@_que]

I learned how to drive a manual on a chevette on a incline in reverse, was sold, manual still to this day... FWD by Honda in the 90s with stiffer suspension mods on double wishbone front and rears ends say EG chassis, light weight and VTEC, was a fun time.

[@Jo3man96]

Technically speaking, the SAAB I4 is derived from the Triumph Dolomite engine. It just so happens that the Triumph V8 they put in the Stag was essentially two Dolomite engines put together into a V8. Edit: While the Mini did help popularise the FWD transverse layout, the one that most cars are actually based on is the Fiat 127. The Mini had a gearbox in sump, but most modern FWD cars, like the Fiat 127, has an end on gear box

[@zhnkbr]

It's literally the same stories over and over with these two haha! And I'm all for it!

[@anthonygodart5424]

Would somehow work also for "why French cars do not suck...until they do" (idea for an episode?) ! Always good to listen to your podcast. I actually live nearby the Douvrin factory Derek referred in while talking about the Douvrin engine of its CX, and btw, even being French, I love so much when you are imitating French :-) Among great FWD cars, the Fulvia should also be mentioned imo, the first and only FWD to win the WRC. And French are never far regarding FWD, we have plenty of great FWD you might never heard about in US, like Renault Super 5 GT Turbo, Clio Williams or Megane r26r. And do not forget the racing cars like the 306 maxi or the Xsara Kit Car which terrorised AWD on tarmac stages in the 90s

[@danrodrigues1991]

Recently (and finally!) picked up a backward Lotus Elise.. 2002 Celica GT-S- with 2ZZ-GE yamaha designed mill.. the bonus? It has a TRD LSD in the C60 6 speed transmission- I cannot stop gushing about how fun this car is to drive on throttle!

[@TonyBasuro]

My research says Yamaha only designed the valve train, to make it reliable at high RPMs. The head and rotating assembly are all Toyota. Also fun in a Vibe GT. No LSD though... Grab the cable brake!

[@therocket280z7]

Just a technical update as to the availability of torque vectoring availability. There have been many vehicles available with some level of torque vectoring from the factory. Some of which are mkiii VWs. I can't speak to every model, but at the very least the vr6 models of Golf and Jetta had Brake Torque Vectoring up to 30mph. This type of technology became pretty common in the 2000s. Also, any Honda that came with an LSD from the factory came with a planetary torque vectoring LSD. This type of LSD is a Torque Vectoring type. It is a similar design to a Quaiffe LSD. The one Camisa refers to on the Prelude SH adds an additional electronically actuated Hydraulic component to the planetary LSD. To my knowledge the Hydraulic component was not added to any other Hondas as the planetary torque vectoring is more than adequate. The only time when it's not is when you have one wheel off the ground. In that situation, it becomes an open diff. Which is why Honda attempted the Hydraulic component. Not long after that Wavetrac LSD was invented, and is now readily available, for essentially all vehicles, to get those few extra tenths at the track when you have a wheel up...

[@stanmarks3950]

I have been watching every one of these, I enjoy their banter with the content that truly appeals. And each time @ the start I ask my self: "Derek, why are you sitting so low ?"

[@CrazyWeeMonkey]

Torque steer gets more hate than it deserves imo. It's almost always described as a negative flaw (which yes it's a flaw), but like so is oversteer. Feeling torque-steer through the steering wheel as you try to find the right balance between corner speed and turning radius in a FWD car is so much fun. You use the throttle to control understeer like a 911! One of the most engaging modern cars I've driven was a FWD V6 Acura TLX. Great steering feedback, a charismatic engine, rear-steer, and solid chassis tuning made it more fun to pull through a corner at the limit of grip (feeling that limit, where it begins to torque-steer) more than any other car I can remember.

[@dougrobinson8602]

Torque steer is indeed a flaw, but when you lose front grip, you immediately feel it in the steering because the torque pull lessens. That is, unless you have EPS, in which case you feel nothing.

[@CrazyWeeMonkey]

@@dougrobinson8602 You don't need a hydraulic or manual rack to get that steering feel, as some EPS systems are good enough to communicate that information to you (like the TLX I mentioned). Do a lot of modern cars have terrible numb EPS? Yes, but not all of them. Tires are also an important part of steering feel, and most cars will feel pretty numb on low-rolling-resistance tires. I don't daily a car exactly known for good steering feel ('12 A6 Quattro), but it does communicate enough to feel when the front tires are at their limits especially above 50mph, and I can use that information to adjust my driving line with the throttle. It had some aging tires on it when I first got the car, and when I replaced the tires with a newer better set the steering feel immediately improved. Another part is also tire pressure. When I first got the car the previous owner tended to stick with about 34psi-front/34psi-rear to soften the stiff suspension, and once I changed the tires to the car's suggested 39psi/42psi settings it was like the EPS drank a gallon of Expresso. If you can feel it through the wheel, torque steer can be lots of fun.

[@TonyBasuro]

Olds Toronado with 3 gears and a 455 V8. Personal Luxury at it's finest. Door-to-door flat floor: set the cruise control and go spread eagle. Turn up the AC

[@6rimR3ap3r]

That Glas V8 was also unofficially known as the "Glaserati" for it's styling :-)

[@thekeccles1996]

This episode made me remember how badly I want to see Jason do an Icons episode on the Veloster N -- could do a piece on a lot of modern sport compacts/FWD performance cars!

[@tonyflorio3269]

The Pontiac OHC six was one of the first belt driven cams -- in 1966.

[@matthewlange8616]

Derek got the year wrong the Glas V8 was introduced in June 1966 not 68. I guess it is a matter of weeks or months as to which came first?

[@PeakVT]

@@matthewlange8616 The 1962 Glas 1004 was actually the first. The V-8 was a development of the I-4.

[@cayman9873]

Had an ohc 6 cyl tempest but it was the sprint 6

[@CraigYope]

Grattan Speedway near Rockford, Mi. My brother could hear the weekend racing from his house. The home of Johnny Benson. Awesome!!!

[@dipstiksubaru3246]

The first known automobile engine to use a timing belt was the American 1954 Devin-Panhard racing car, used an engine converted from pushrods to overhead camshafts through the use of a toothed belt made by the Gilmer Company.[17][18] This car won the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) National Championship in 1956.

[@sundippatel1796]

I love my 2020 Veloster N PP 6MT as a daily vs my Civic type R .

[@dreikonse]

Great job as always...! Can you guys make a video talking about every car nuts love for the scale model cars? Such as 1:18 etc... And talk about your own collection maybe! I'd love to watch this!

[@michaelschneider-]

+1 .. Many a GTI owner here: '83, '89, and '06 GTIs. Speaking to the choir.

[@stron2004]

B Sport made a video on the DKW F9's development. And I was astonished by how the exact layout is still in most of the Audi lineup.

[@antoinerollin2830]

Hyphen's french is just fine and very entertaining.

[@chrismillikan5031]

Fyi, the Fiat 124 Spider used a Lampredi-designed twin cam I-4 with a timing belt that was in production from 1966 all the way through the end of the Lancia Delta Integrale production in 1999. This engine would pre-date the Glas timing belt engine by 2 years. Fyi. Love the Carmudgeon Show (and all the Hagerty/BTS content)! Keep it coming, please! Thank you!

[@oscarbedford9153]

I sincerely believe that most of the problems that Jason mentions with the 2ZZ involve it being both tuned and supercharged, in stock N/A toyota-managed form they're ridiculously theatrical motors, crazy intake noise and wild lift changeover similar to the K20. When you tune them for better performance like lotus did, you usually smooth over the lift changeover point to the extent of it being nearly unnoticable, and add a supercharger to muffle the intake and now you've sucked the soul out of it in the pursuit of speed. I have a dead stock 2ZZ in my MR2 and I've ridden in a heavily tinkered with Exige S, and if I didn't know already you could convince me those were two completely different engines.

[@mchristr]

After owning a series of 60's muscle cars (Chevelle, Camaro, big-block C10) I bought a new '91 Escort GT. A rev-happy Mazda DOHC, 5-speed, disc brakes at all corners, and FWD made it a scalpel on twisty mountain roads (think Lake Sonoma to Highway 1). But I longed for a car I could steer with the throttle so it got replaced (1992) with an '86 Mustang SVO (which I still have).

[@mikefaulhaber]

I chose to replace my '90 E30 325is with a '97 Prelude Type SH and was happy that I did. Granted, I later replaced the Prelude with a '92 Mark II GTI 16v, and it was in the GTI that I tried to learn how to drive at the limit (at Blackhawk Farms, Gingerman and even Road America). I'd still love to have that Prelude.

[@Michael-ct4ul]

I read a bunch of vw literature about the VAQ dif in the MK7 in preparation to do a service*, and when you use the launch control feature it will preemptively lock the dif in order to help put the power down. *I did this because when I went to service my 7 speed DSG I was very surprised to find it different from all the 6 speed DSG service videos I had watched

[@richardroberts5668]

Unrepentant MINI nerd here. When my CarMax rescue JCW Coupe needed a new clutch, I added a Wavetrac LSD -- the Mechanic has access during the diff when replacing the clutch. Transformed the car. LSDs are the answer.

[@hitmezachbraynVIA-TELE_GRAM]

it's my pleasure to have you on my youtube channel, you are randomly selected among winners for today .. Hit me up on telegram for your (prize) 🎉🎁. Congratulation 🤝

[@dougrobinson8602]

I put a thick rear stabilizer bar on my '03 MINI Cooper S. It was like night and day. The rear didn't feel like it was being dragged around, and the car rotated around the center instead of around the engine. Trailing throttle oversteer was usable and manageable. The car should have left the factory that way. The same effect happened on my '92 GTI with a rear bar. I can imagine what a hoot it is to drive Jason's Scirocco. Jason failed to mention one of the biggest pros of FWD, namely winter traction in snow. Frickin' Californians.

[@alexjenner1108]

No mention of two cars that did a lot for changing the perception of FWD cars, although perhaps not in the US, the Fiat 128 and the Alfa Romeo Alfasud, which came before the Civic and the Golf.

[@R3LF13]

Fiesta ST appreciation post 🙌

[@misterdecibel]

Transverse FWD time line: Mini 1959 -> Autobianchi Primula 1964 -> Fiat 128 1969 -> VW Golf/Scirocco 1974 -> everything else...

[@misterdecibel]

Fiat 125, 1967, had a toothed timing belt, but Glas 1004 had it in 1962.

[@Boonestafa1]

The Gen 1 Mazdaspeed 3 was one of the best performance hatches of all time. Mechanical LSD, robust 6 speed transmission, great room in a decent interior. It was a brilliant economy car that was given a smoking hot motor with analogue inputs and its raw edge was its charm! I still regret selling the damn thing

[@ukwan]

Having owned multiple FF, FR, MR, RR cars I have to agree with everything said in this podcast. But my personal preference goes to FR layout, it's the most intuitive to drive on the limit and easiest for me to get the lap times from, but 911s are cool af and I miss mine dearly. Foot note, MR cars scare the shit out of me on the limit and I don't want to get them sideways either. 😂

[@AsinineComment]

From memory, in the late 80s the Renault 21 had a transverse engine, fwd variant - and a longitudinal engine, fwd variant - AND both were 2-point-something litre, 4cyl engines! I know - ridiculous! The longitudinal one was in front of the front *track line*. (It's not an axle line, since there's been no axle in that location for numerous decades.) Oh, and back on the Renaults, the 16TS was fwd, and had a longitudinal 4cyl motor - but its was _behind_ the front track line.

[@JamesP.72]

I've only owned 2 rwd cars, i liked them, but i love front wheel drive cars more! Especially if they are compact and subcompact hatchbacks!

[@AsinineComment]

Have we considered the magnificent fwd handling of the *Alfasud* !?! It's a 4-cyl of course, but it's a flat four, and I'm certain it's water-cooled.

[@cwiggy34]

Congratulations on 20 years of not smoking.

[@toby319]

I believe the Pontiac Firebird came out with a timing belt SOHC inline six for the 1967 model year

[@simonpoudrette]

Le français de Derek est excellent !

[@jeremiecl7335]

Your shop French is fine.... In French Canada at least, all of our mechanical stuff comes from the states, so it's easier for us to use the English words. Although we frenchify it....Taradelle = "tire rod end" for example But yeah, I work in a French Canadian engineering company and it's like "On a fitté des cams pour la drive. Le muffleur est percé, pis on a commandé des nouveaux bearings pour le shaft...."

[@fillertext778]

Fantastic episode gentlemen!

[@kevinandrew_]

I've always found AWD hot hatches/sport compacts kind of boring after awhile. Of course lightweight, small, and RWD is my preference, but if I need a bigger car, it's more fun to work with a FWD car than to just mash the throttle whenever and wherever in an AWD car with no drama, nevermind the added weight.

[@t44tqtro]

You guys need to drive an Acura Integra Type R. To me, that is the quintessential great handling FWD car. I love how they drive and wish I bought my neighbor's 2000 while he still had it.

[@hitmezachbraynVIA-TELE_GRAM]

it's my pleasure to have you on my youtube channel, you are randomly selected among winners for today .. Hit me up on telegram for your (prize) 🎉🎁. Congratulation 🤝

[@reycaballero2462]

I've never would imagine that the 5th gen honda prelude would be mentioned on your podcast. Cool to hear you guys opinion on FWD cars...

[@pereldh5741]

I can see 1 reason for this show. Jason boasting his VW’s. 😊 Other early FWD transverse cars: Fiat 128 - 1969, Fiat 127 - 1971.

[@dipstiksubaru3246]

The 1966 Pontiac ohc 6 was the first American car to use a timing belt.

[@AndreThompson925]

Listening to Jason's 'story' about the silver pickup truck, he's right about the FWD being great for leaving those situations. This weekend, something extremely similar happened to me, but I was in my 22 Miata. I dumped the clutch from like 5k and drifted around him, but would have preferred to leave a cloud of smoke. It was still a fun way to show that idiot driver he almost caused an accident.

[@sonnyzhao2309]

Tho Jason Camisa said many time he doesn't like Civic Type Rs, I really want to see him drive the new civic Type R and enjoy it!

[@eugenux]

there is not much of a difference between the gen 10 and gen 11. The chassis is mostly the same, the engine is mostly the same, gearbox is mostly the same. Just because looks different does not mean that, technically, it is a different car. and the part with the *mostly*... well, most of the passionate ctr owners dis exactly those sort of small mods... a. smaller wheels(those 20" were ridiculous) b. slightly better breathing for the engine c. allignment and better brakes.

[@sonnyzhao2309]

@@eugenux that is not the point, Jason has said in one of the show that he never actually drove a civic Type R. So if I want to see him drive one, then better be the newest one right?

[@jimiverson3085]

@@eugenux No one should dis alignment as a "mod." It can make a big difference in a car's handling.

[@thomasxl200]

I've driven plenty of FWD that just disappointed me. The one exception was a 5 speed R53 Mini I got as a loaner car while my E30 was in the shop for some (expensive) work. And my god that thing was magic. It's a damn shame that it was falling apart on the inside cause I was giggling like a madman chucking this little go kart in and out of turns.

[@martingardens]

My R53 is a six speed.

[@irisfailsafe]

Hyphen ignores all the 80s Frenchie hot hatches like the Peugeot 205, Citroen AX GTI etc…

[@alexlai2580]

Jason, you should hit up Trackspec out in Fremont to see if anyone is selling a Elise with a K-swap.

[@AllSpeed]

Its fun to watch the challenge of FWD in drag racing. they do so much to get traction. weight plates, fuel tank in front of the tires etc.

[@50zoomie]

Jason Don't badmouth Grattan. It is a great fun track which has a few places that are dangerous. They make you drive not just keep your foot on the floor and steer.

[@joshamann5921]

Look into the 1969 Honda 1300! Air-cooled, fwd, dry sump 4 cylinder making 115 PS in the 4 carb version. I believe it is transverse as well.

[@subutaynoyan5372]

I mean, it never was the fastest example, or dynamically great but Alfa Romeo 159 alone is a testament that a FWD regular car can be nice to drive, let alone performance cars.

[@tonyclewes8]

No one in the West Midlands uses their indicators - must be a fluid shortage.

[@DC5Brandon]

YES! Finally someone with clout finally said it. People don't understand when I said I enjoyed driving my modified FWD RSX more than my stock RWD Cayman S, until that too was eventually modified. The RSX sounded better, mainly due to the cold air intake induction sound. I feel the car's sound is 50% of the experience and the Cayman felt and sounded far too docile before it was modified. Stock to stock, the Cayman probably would get the slight edge, but I can increase the tire pressures and stiffen the rear damper compression to get the tail loose in the modified RSX if I wanted.

[@ankurpandya3912]

Could you guys touch a bit on what mods could help de-economize an FWD car and make it more fun to drive? I know Jason swears by a rear sway bar, anything else?

[@Ion1212g]

The new RS3 has another exaple. It has inversed staggered wheels, wider at the front and narrower at the back for more front grip as well.

[@nah3193]

Intake and exhaust, tune if available, possibly throttle controller on newer cars, light weight wheels with good tires, front subframe brace, and either springs/struts or coilovers.

[@ghostonvinyl193]

My old Saab 9000 Aero was to date one of my favorite cars I’ve driven, mostly because it was FWD! Cars losing traction? Stay in it! It’s dragging you all over the road? Hang on! Loved that thing

[@etienne-manuelreynaud]

Vert good french. As always, very entertaining. The Saab 900 used half of a Stag V8! WoW. Was as reliable as a Stag? Lol. That engine over heated all the Time.

[@DustinDriver]

Hyphen’s GTI should have the mechanical and electronic front diff. My 2017 GTI Sport has the mechanical diff and all GTI’s newer than 2019 have it, AFAIK. It’s insanely amazing and unlike any other FWD car I’ve driven or owned. Just bonkers how much you can pin the throttle coming out of and even THROUGH turns!

[@arnejungclaus7957]

"You don't turn the drive train to put it in the back, except..." when you use a Citroën Sm aka. A tacked on fifth speed version of the traction avant and ds transmission in maserati bora, maserati *insert sister car name* and lotus esprit. Also did know that delorean was intended for a rotary but did not know the Citroën Sm was too.

[@GeekSHO]

I put a Quaife ATB diff into my old SHO, and it radically transformed the handling characteristic. It applies slightly more torque to the outside wheel, and just as Jason said, you can throttle out of corners and it actually reduces understeer under power, at least until both front wheels lose grip laterally. It's absolute magic. SHOs are one-wheel-peel champs without an ATB diff.

[@Ion1212g]

I chipped my Peugeot 308 2L HDI of 150HP to 205HP and 400Nm to 460Nm (On a dyno). I wear Mich. PS4 and can break grip if i floor it in 3rd getting out of toll booths. Electric steering so no torquesteer at least. And I'm spanish so read Peugeot with all the letters phonetically as you pointed out.

[@joshamann5921]

I'm surprised both of you didn't know about the DS originally being planned for a flat 6!

[@qx4n9e1xp]

I'm saddened by the under-representation of left-wheel drive cars. Nothing like being able to gas it out of a (right turn) by only applying throttle. Or reversing out of an Ulta Beauty parking space by only applying throttle.

[@marcmigneault8364]

Le moteur série M de la CX avait un arbre à cames latéral. Still love you guys!

[@Navagiasostis]

Loved this one :) So I guess my "dream" garage of a hot hatch (i30n/Renault Megane) and a 997 Carrera S is a solid goal. Now I only need to get enough money for them before everything get's phased out, which aint gonna happen :(

[@leotam3372]

I thought the Pontiac OHC I6 was the first with a timing belt Unfortunately, the clutch VAG uses can't handle the torque of the golf R already as it is

[@dipstiksubaru3246]

I'm sitting here screaming Lancia Fulvia HF at the screen !!

[@hitmezachbraynVIA-TELE_GRAM]

it's my pleasure to have you on my youtube channel, you are randomly selected among winners for today .. Hit me up on telegram for your (prize) 🎉🎁. Congratulation 🤝

[@BojanBojovic]

Never understood how VW Golf became a benchmark when it comes to affordable sportiness. It is depressively boring all around, to look at, to drive, to steer, to sit in. Maybe compared to a Corolla, then it is understandable.

[@YAHOO28258]

Partly because it's been around forever and partly because it's German and for most people Germans are just the best at everything, so they end up being the benchmark regardless. Only other two options I see are Peugeot with I don't even know what because they change model numbers daily, and the Civic which is not only more fun and reliable than the Golf, but also older. However, it's Japanese, and that means it'll get 3/10 on the interior, scratchy plastic and small cup holders, all true of the Golf 8 as well but the Golf is German and if Germany had enough Sturmgewehrs and Tigers it would've hands down won WW2 so naturally it has to get a 7/10 maybe a 6/10 because of the capacitive touch nonsense that Honda has already moved away from years ago. And here comes the BMW with a 10/10 interior as it's cup holders not only fit a Los Pollos Hermanos Medium-Rare Soda but are lined with the skin of a virgin which has 6 pneumatically activated solenoids that hold your cup stable when you're parked, however in the reliability it does suffer, weekly engine rebuilds are annoying at first but as time goes ull get faster at them, but the unacceptable oil consumption does make it only a 9/10. So here you go world, the BMW M113xd Evolution 69 is your Hatchback of 2023.