It's a Palworld After All! A Lawyer Explains Nintendo v. Palworld

[@moon-channel]

Try ZenMarket today by going to: tinyurl.com/ZenMarketMoon and signing up with promo code MOONCHANNEL for a free 1000 ZenPoints -- that's 1000 yen off your international shipping fee!

[@Spartan_S-007]

I wasn'y paying much attention about the ZenMarket (because I thought it tas USA only), until you mentioned the portuguese part. Thank you, I'll at least take a look.

[@DerpDerp3001]

Could you make a video about Mickey Mouse entering public domain and what people can do with the character to avoid trademark infringement?

[@kirbyjoe7484]

The thing is, if you look at the timeline, Nintendo started moving against Palworld BEFORE Palword hitched their vulnerable little idie buggy to the Sony war machine. Nintendo literally helped push Palword into Sony's arms. Palworld only just signed their deal with Sony a few months ago. Nintendo was publically talking about having their lawyers look into Palworld almost a year ago which gives a pretty reasonable conservative estimate of when they started building their case. You don't just build and launch a patent lawsuit of this scale over a handful of weeks which is all the time that passed between Palworld's deal with Sony and the lawsuit being served. Nintendo doesn't like fighting other industry titans. It saw Palword as a small fry that was legally rather defenseless. They started putting their case together and saber rattling almost immediately after it became apparent Palworld was a big success. This was Nintendo wanting to slap around a highly successful but relatively small and defenseless upstart and then then getting smacked upside the head halfway through the process by that little indie upstart running into the arms of a industry Titan. Although, personally, I think it was likely Sony that came to Palword with the offer rather than the other way around. Sony smelled opportunity and blood in the water, a way to force Nintendo into a patent lawsuit war and acquire a new and promising game development studio at the same time.

[@mechgouki7999]

In no way shape or form is Nintendo acting in good faith. It would be like if Capcom and streetfighter felt that SNK and KOF is a crime, and tried to shut them down. Thankfully that never happened and we are all the better for it. In no way is Nintendo acting in self-defense. Moving to protect their interests, yes. But their interest is not in the interest of the consumers. Let's not forget that Digimon exists. Is anyone going to be confused that a cute digimon is a pokemon? Someone who's never seen either before, maybe. If it means more cute monsters in the world, I hope Nintendo loses.

[@usernametaken017]

Is that Deltarune Ost in the first second of the video

[@CrowSongProductions]

The fact that the last song was muted due to copyright infringement is almost funny in how ironic it is.

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

Goes to show that the copyright system in the US is just as flawed as everywhere else

[@lulu1997master]

However not by a video game company, just the usual music licensing nonsense. The cut on Patreon has the full song for those interested!

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

@@lulu1997master I was going to say, if that strike was from Sony it would be poetic irony

[@TexasHockeyClub]

@@MatildatheMoonwolf Then why don't you leave or if you live in another country already, then why should you even care?

[@gavinyeet5821]

@@TexasHockeyClub ???

[@groundcontrol0597]

Patent law feels like a game of yugioh. Just a bunch of trap cards and hand traps and thousands of negates targeting eachother

[@twaggytheatricks4960]

What a brilliantly specific reference. Have a like, from one fellow YGO person to another. Well, that and Megaman Battle Network, since your profile pic is what first got me to see your comment.

[@RealLockheedMartin]

The point of YGO/Business isn't to play the game, it's to prevent your rivals from playing the game. Also, the turns take multiple years.

[@lulu1997master]

But still less boring and complicated than an actual game of YuGiOh! And only a smidge longer than an average match.

[@recatwc]

Just The Image I Have xD

[@recatwc]

@@RealLockheedMartin So True It Hurts

[@Borapaws]

you sound like youre going to teach me how sequined pillows, vanilla ice cream, and industrial piping is made

[@krebgurfson5732]

actually he sounds fat

[@aSipOfHemlocktea]

Very soothing voice I could listen to them talk about anything for hours

[@emma_tm]

either that or he's about to tell me im gonna walk through the door on my left

[@Czestime]

OH NO LOOK! ITS MICROSOFT WITH THE STEEL CHAIR!

[@maestromarat6195]

All will be games pass 🙏

[@tutumazibuko2510]

LOOK OUT LOOK OUT LOOK OUT

[@DontKnowDontCare6.9]

Thanks, Don Mattrick.

[@NicolaeCarpathia420]

lol Microsoft slipped on the top rope half an hour ago and they are lying motionless in the corner.

[@sephikong8323]

OUT OF NOWHERE ! VALVE WITH THE RKO !

[@megamangos7408]

I didn't realize Sony had already gotten that much authority over Palworld at this point and also thought Nintendo was just patient trolling an upstart. Thank you for the great context.

[@V972]

TBF, Nintendo IS patient trolling nonetheless.

[@Orbo100]

@@nazrin992 Nah they made Pokemon levels of $$$ from Palworld already. Broke several Steam sales records

[@noty2673]

@@Orbo100 im sorry but a singular hit game is not enough to put it on the same league as the largest media franchise in the worlds history.

[@bryanmerel]

​@noty2673 that would be the case, if we don't factor out that the Pokémon IP has stagnated for years now. Their latest 2 generations is practically a bust. Their last two mainline games was either a bore or a straight-up laughing stock. Their anime just lost their main star. Even their live action movie entry has been beaten by Sonic, an IP owned by their ex-rival Sega. Pokémon got overconfident due to being unchallenged for so long and practically having a monopoly on the creature catching game genre. Palworld may have been small and an upstart but it practically invalidated any and all excuse Pokémon had for not giving its customer base a better product. True, Palworld is the last thing you can call perfect, or polished even. But it basically showed the world a proof of concept that for the longest time, what game concepts or product Pokémon argued was undoable or impossible even were indeed "possible". Palworld HUMILIATED Pokemon by merely existing. If that ain't a huge blow, i don't know what is.

[@gadricgadwind]

nintendo are patent trolls, they use the same hand with fan games.

[@scoobydoo23320]

It's hard to feel bad for Sony or Nintendo. Sony has been making really bad business decisions that led them to this point, and Nintendo has been really mishandling Pokemon and has been getting more aggressive with copyright recently. Especially with mods and emulators.

[@chiarasuper]

I mean, it was bad that Nintendo even bothered to apologize, which is something that requires throwing away ego, such as what happened with SV. Leaked content show that it was originally planned for 2024 for PLZA, but as we know, it was now delayed to 2025. The PLZA beta that a leaker or two managed to download (somehow) was almost done, main story was basically almost done with only 50% missing side quests or the likes. From the teraleaks of the pokemon stuff, it actually seems like there were quite some great idea / concepts to further the depth of the pokemon games in terms of lore and the likes, however, there was quite a lot of higher up meddling and it eventually led to how SV got in its buggy state. I think rather than 'Nintendo', you should consider pinning the blame on the higher up of Gamefreak, because they are the ones that have alot of control over the employees. The new pokemon anime series is actually much better in quality, but there has also been attempts at meddling from the highers up of Gamefreak to make it get 'mishandled'. Though I get the point more so on mods / emulators and I wish they are way more open to it like they are trying to with Nintendo Music (it's still so new though). If anything, it is kind of the opposite for me: it is difficult to feel bad for Sony due to its predatory tactics, which also includes raising Playstation subscription costs. People praise it, but I don't think it's as good as people make it out to be. Nintendo Switch Online is actually much better for its cheap price and the Music service is a good way to address a common complaint of having little to offer. I guess I'm a nintendo maniac person, I still think it's not so cool for copyright and I kinda do feel bad not being on the same level of being upset as this, but it's more so I guess I understand the situation even though I'm not fully approving of it. Though actually, if Palworld partnered with Nintendo, I think they would prosper much better. If it was with Sony I think they would take advantage of it.

[@wck]

Both these companies are on a downturn and both are desperate to protect their status in the industry. The best result would be them both losing.

[@KeithElliott-zd8cx]

still, fuck nintendo. They don't own the rights to any fucking monster taming game with 6 slots that uses balls. It doesn't even play like pokemon, it's an ark knockoff...

[@agentmith]

@@chiarasuperIt’s not like Nintendo didn’t have an opportunity to partner up with Palworld also. I hope Sony wins, despite the allusion described in this video there have been countless times Nintendo has issued frivilous DMCA takedowns and copyright notices to indie projects, not to mention their continued war against emulation which is the only way we have to preserve these games for future generations. They’re stagnant and bullying, and have no concept of how technology is outpacing their outmoded way of thinking. I hope they get creamed, Pokemon has been dead for a while now and it’s entirely their fault.

[@primus0348]

@@chiarasuper I'm curious about a 3rd option, if Palworld didn't Pair with Either Nintendo or Sony (an Any other Company too) would they still be Ok

[@YapWooHoo]

At first I was confused. But when I saw, that Palworld was now also a Sony thing, I was like:"OOHHH YOU MADE A GRAVE MISTAKE"

[@_mako]

same lol. the moment he said "nintendo vs sony", everything clicked immediately

[@dad5draco]

He was beating around the bush so much. I was wondering when he got to it.

[@NicolaeCarpathia420]

Yeah that confused me I assumed it was a tiny side story when that was revealed a few months ago, but it turns out that had also been months in the making and is the real inciting factor. My next question is therefore how the fuck did Microsoft’s Xbox fuck this up??? Palworld was on Xbox before it was on PS5.

[@TheRenofox]

@@NicolaeCarpathia420 Western companies have become fanatically anti-profit in the recent years.

[@snintendog]

@@dad5draco it took him 30 minutes to GET TO THE POINT. and what it basically boils down to is Nintendo wants a Monopoly

[@jdvred9210]

COPYSTRIKE FROM BRAZIL MENTIONED

[@PYRO-TF2-REAL]

7-1

[@vitorkk328]

​@@PYRO-TF2-REALrespeita o unico pentacampeão, gringo safado

[@richielickie]

@@PYRO-TF2-REAL Ouch you didnt have to say that

[@gouveiarfl]

@@PYRO-TF2-REALthis was uncalled for bro

[@markkimuszer0]

​@@PYRO-TF2-REAL Not cool dude. Guy wasn't even provoking it and you bring this unneeded aggression out of nowhere

[@siprus]

I think one thing that you forgot to say that patent litigation is risky because it has two possible outcomes. Either the patent is affirmed or it's dismissed. Litigation might lead to evaporation of the whole patent, so companies rather don't actually want to do patent lawsuits, because there is risk of losing the entire patent in the lawsuit. While nobody else wants to litigate the patent lawsuits against big companies since the litigation process is very expensive. Patents always have open question of their validity. Is the patent too general and not original and creative enough. This questions are of course to some extent taken into account when patent is filed, but they get challenged again when a patent lawsuit is litigated and this time by much more hostile adversary than a patent clerk. This means that when patent lawsuit is fought there is pretty big chance that the patent might become unenforceable after litigation or even if the patent is still considered valid, the limits of the patent get more clearly defined, which makes it easier to create solution that basically do the same thing as the patent without actually breaking the patent.

[@jevgenythomson4300]

Oh, I think Nintendo has such a strong hold in Japan that it goes beyond any kind of corruption you can imagine. I highly doubt that Nintendo will lose and have their patent invalidated, although in the interests of fair competition and the development of the gaming industry in this genre, they should lose. If they don't, it could set a precedent where any company can retroactively patent an idea and then prevent others from doing the same. Like if Rockstar patented open-city driving and driving, and then the developers of Saint Row got sued for patent infringement. Or Project Red and Cyberpunk. It's all a fine line. But Nintendo has a very strong hold in Japan, I think.

[@hotworlds]

​@@jevgenythomson4300 Patents get enforced all the time. This isn't the first video game patent suit in history. It isn't going to set more of a precedent than anything else. And despite what controversy KZbin will tell you patents need to be specific and there is an incredibly thorough process considering what can and can't be patented. That's why the patent is about throwing a ball to capture creatures and not just generally capturing creatures. This lawsuit isn't going to change any of that. These are normal patents similar to stuff every big company has and this will be normal litigation similar to all the patent suits that are going on all the time that you don't hear about because they aren't about Pokemon. And anyway, if Nintendo wins Sony isn't going to have to take Palworld off the market, they will just have to pay an absurd amount of damages to the point where they will be more careful about ripping off pokemon when they inevitably release Palworld 2 and probably seriously rethink their merchandising strategy. Which is a good thing. Fuck Sony they've ruined everything they ever touched.

[@cthulhupolar60]

@@hotworlds The patent is not about throwing a ball to capture a creature, it just specifies throwing an object to capture a creature so you can't capture any creature in any games with a thrown object.

[@gabrote42]

​@@cthulhupolar60 good that starbound died then

[@XerxesTexasToast]

I got that impression from the video already, so I don't think he forgot to say it. Moony's emphasis on patents being risky pretty strongly implied that the patent goes up in smoke upon the failure of the suit.

[@thegivingtree887]

i am way too excited considering this is a legal video lmao

[@thegivingtree887]

moony what have you done to me!! why am i so invested in patents and ip law now!!

[@LiteraryCurtastrophe]

​@@thegivingtree887 Honestly, same, I assume it's just Moony's style, creativity and in depth explanation

[@emitheorbit1118]

​@@thegivingtree887 Because he actually investigates the full topics at hand

[@septum_funk]

a good speaker can make even the most boring topics seem like the most interesting thing imaginable

[@shedidntthinkthisthrough]

He tells the story like it’s a game or anime plot, so that’s to be expected, I think lol

[@glitchmagician]

I was seeing all these Palworld animations in the background and was like "where did these come from, are these fan animations?" Then I saw Aniplex and I was like "oh." No idea Sony was that involved. Thanks for the perspective, Moony!

[@VideoGameStarChannelSupreme]

I found one of the "Palanime" animations on Pocketpair's channel iirc. I recall also seeing the Lovander one previously. There's also a few fan animations if you look for them.

[@NicolaeCarpathia420]

I assumed they hired an animation studio themselves but it turns out they are partnered with people with huge expertise in animation.

[@snintendog]

BLAHBLAH BLAH Its just Nintendo still protecting a Monopoly. They Shouldnt be given ANY QUARTER and should be shut down completely and this comes from a HATER of sony.

[@bloboblobo]

the animations and 3d videos started on pocketpair channel before the announcement

[@donniebirb]

Some of the animations are actually commissioned by a fan of palworld who pocketpair loved their animation so much (most of the 3d ones)

[@_graybee]

I wish this video was enough to get people to stop saying stuff like "Nintendo is ontologically evil and is trying to destroy indie games and gaming as a whole by patenting everything >:(" as if there isn't plenty to criticize without just making stuff up

[@serghonest9]

You can see in the comments they still don't care, they still don't believe Palwolrd is not a multi-million $ IP.

[@maybedonn]

The setup with showing PalWorld for Pokémon and Wargroove for Advance Wars to the punchline of showing the Union Jack for Xenoblade was masterful

[@sombrego2260]

This made me laugh too. That and the AoE2 analogies at the start of the video it's so niche and so on point at the same time, everytime.

[@HyperLuigi37]

I got mad at that one 🤣

[@MxPokirby]

It was the Xenoblade one that got me

[@kitestar]

“game is so bri’ish their Union Jack is showing” is what I’m getting

[@dotlillie]

Minor Correction:Aniplex of America *distributes* fate (and probably Demon Slayer too) rather than producing it. They do also do the dubs but its made and produced by ufotable

[@MechaDragonX]

The Fate games are published by Aniplex in Japan too and I would assume the anime too. FGO for example is either listed as being published by Sony Music or Aniplex (similar enough) and my copy of FSN on Switch clearly denotes Aniplex as the publisher in Japanese. Ufotable being an anime studio doesn't own the rights to anything they produce really. It's all the producers and other people that hire them to crate the anime that own the rights to it. In this case, Aniplex

[@alax1288]

It's indeed made by ufotable but the producer is Aniplex (Japan) and Shueisha

[@MechaDragonX]

@@alax1288 I don't think Shueisha but ya. That's how it works. A studio might try and make an anime get a bunch of funders/producers on board or one or few of those find and anime studio to hire. In the end, the ones in charge are actually IP holders and ones with the money, not the people making the actual art sadly

[@dotlillie]

@@MechaDragonX the complete ip holder for fate is type-moon, a **relatively** small company and the people making some of the art, at least

[@MechaDragonX]

@dotvee Ya, but they use Aniplex's services for publishing and marketing similarly to Nintendo with Game Freak. Type Moon has a lot more independence tho right? I don't know much about this admittedly. lol

[@yukaiyami]

Finally a video that sounds like they know what they’re talking about! I never even considered this being a Nintendo v Sony scenario! Thanks a lot for being informative yet easy to understand! And my condolences for that music strike at the end :(

[@FelipeMoraes7878]

Moony, just want to share with you that I passed my bar exam! You are a inspiration to me, mate, God bless you!

[@moon-channel]

Hey, congratulations! What an accomplishment! Thank you for sharing that with me, felipe. :)

[@espelhodasconstelacoes]

É brasileiro amigo? Parabéns na sua conquista! Deus abençoe sua jornada, fé nos planos dele que ele não vai te desamparar em nenhum desafio!

[@adoniscreed4031]

Congrats!!!

[@OhDontMindMe]

Well done good sir. Boa sorte e sucesso!

[@lioedevon4275]

Yooo congrats dude!

[@Arkyron]

Okay, but Moony, you unironically have a phenomenal singing voice. If you haven't already, I would encourage you to share it in some other capacity even more in the future. You unironically soothed my kid to sleep in your finale as I was watching this, to my surprise. 😮

[@jameslrx6990]

Absolutely agree!

[@Majo_Ellen]

RIGHT? We need Moony karaoke jams!

[@fractaldisarray1518]

yess, I hope Moony sings some more, it was a seriously lovely surprise ♥

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

A man of many talents indeed

[@squall2204]

I must agree, your voice sounds so stable !

[@NimonoSolenze]

Regarding Colopl, I had heard that the case with them and Nintendo wasn't "This company getting too big, we must shut it down", but rather that they essentially took a standard mechanic that other games had been using for a while, patented it, *and told everyone they had to pay royalties in order to use that mechanic.* Thus, Nintendo shut them down with "Okay, here's OUR patent for a generic mechanic that YOU have been using. Pay us back for your infringement. :)" and got them to back down. (And settle financially, probably as a punishment for overstepping their bounds.) If that's true, that would make Colopl 100% the aggressor in that case; is it then possible that something similar is happening here, but out of the public eye? There's too many unknowns, though. We may just never know what truly is happening. It could be Nintendo being afraid of Sony. It could be Pocketpair actually did something wrong like Colopl. Who the heck knows.

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

That’s very true, we only know stuff that’s have been shared publicly. We actually don’t know that’s happening privately. And the worst part is patent lawsuits takes years to get resolved so we might never know until it’s already done

[@WTFYI]

That’s just Nintendo fanboy making up excuses for Nintendo as there is not much for Nintendo to gain more than suing other exact same patent infringements. Colopl registered a narrower patent that has more details and thus naturally more specific in a certain operating logic that most companies won’t even bother using. They merely advertised their patent as some kind of showing off the operating systems’ originality which is very different from the 1000th virtual joystick hot dump ported games. I would believe this if not Regalia Lost was published in that timeframe, unfortunately to me it really looked like CyGames was playing dirty asking Nintendo to smite their first move opponent.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

This reminds me of that case Moon has referenced a few times about a modding group trying to take the copyright from a big corpo away by alleging they'd revoked their right to it, I forget what it was called though, started with an M

[@derdomino828]

I think it's fascinating that the Japanese fans seem to side with Nintendo and the western fans with Pocketpair because each thinks that "their" side winning will protect their ability to create fan-works. I think a major difference is that western fans (myself included) don't trust a rights holder to only go after the big players in the "derivative works" space because that social contract generally doesn't exists in the west. With companies such as Disney we see how radical an approach many rights holders take. Note: Originally I said here that should this case be successful, Nintendo might go after Cassette Beasts next. People rightly pointed out why that won't be happening and I recognize it was a bad example.

[@CloudsAndDays]

I think this has everything to do with how copyright works between different countries. In the US, they’re often stricter with their copyright because they’re more at risk of losing it if they don’t enforce it. But in Japan, that’s less of a worry.

[@damaramu.]

@@CloudsAndDays There's no risk of losing copyright for not enforcing it, that's trademarks.

[@Levitz9]

The difference is that fan devs and indie devs in Japan are also much more keen on not stepping on people's toes. The case of Touhou Puppet Performance is a great example (a romhack of FireRed with Touhou characters): they were asked politely to not use Pokémon assets, so they made a whole new game called Touhou Puppet Performance done in thy *style* of the Gen 3 Pokémon games, which Nintendo has had no issue with. Doujinka are very careful to respect the boundaries established by rights holders, so the cases where people get sued for infringement are few. Compare to America where people get morally outraged that they can't romhack Twilight Princess into The Legend of Zelda: Tits and Hookers Edition, and are supremely offended that Nintendo doesn't accept their fan game based off of stolen assets as a proper release.

[@AkinokazeHaruichiban]

I think there's also just a general western view [particularly online and among content creators] of "fuck Nintendo." A sentiment born out of their heavy abuse of DMCA against let's-players, reviewers, emulators and fan-game creators. Frankly they tend to come off as bullies with no respect for fair use, critique, or game preservation [hell, they don't even respect your rom purchases from one system to the next. Once they introduced the wii virtual console, the digital games games you bought there should have been tied to your account and available to you every time they emulate them forwards, but instead they make you rebuy the same game on each system.]

[@mariomario-dy1kc]

​@@Levitz9Taking such extreme and biased examples does a lot to discredit your take on the subject. People have plenty of valid reasons to dislike what Nintendo, and in fact game companies in general who actively harm creation and innovation in the name of protecting their ips.

[@SonofTzeentch]

Finally understand why Japan can have both really strict copyright laws, yet be so forgiving (in Japan) about fanworks, and how this ties into japanese fans' opinions on their own larger ip-holders. Always found that baffling. Thanks for explaining, great video!

[@snintendog]

Its just one GIANT Monopoly. This isnt a GOOD THING. Its just Mafia Rules.

[@_BorkBorkBork]

They are literally the least forgiving for fanworks, the hell are you talking about? Nintendo regularly shuts down fan things all the time, every single day, and threatens to utterly destroy them in court if they don't cease and desist immediately. Meanwhile you can make as many fan games of IPs held by Microsoft as you want and they literally do not care. Japanese companies are the absolutely epitome of greed, selfishness and capitalism.

[@ayeyuh6920]

Yeah... I'm still not in favor of it at all and still think the Japanese supporters are boot-lickers. It's still not a good thing.

[@ollehkacb]

​​@@snintendogbasically they live under a benevolent tyranny but only if they remain small.

[@zzthedon4k]

@@snintendog exactly what I was thinking. they literally are behaving like a Mafia. it's crazy how many people support this behaviour because le nostalgia childhood video game company is the one behind it

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

Posting another comment here to give Moon Channel and the comment section an update on the lawsuit. Palworld developer Pocketpair announce that Nintendo and the The Pokémon Company are demanding 10 million yen (about $66,000 USD) plus late payment damages in their lawsuit against Palword. For context, that’s LESS money than what Sakurai spent on his KZbin channel. 1 of the 3 patents infringed upon is for a game program in which you throw an item to catch a character. This is further proof on what Moon Channel said that this lawsuit is to not kill Palworld nor Pocket Pair, this lawsuit is only to tell Sony to back off.

[@tranquility6789]

I actually kinda agree with the video now lol, that being said, the patents themselves, while technically being filed in 2021, were updated after Palworld's release, and they're actually even less specific than a lot of people thought. I do think the very small amount of money could give Pocketpair a chance to decide to just be small forever, or fight Nintendo over the patents, which if you've actually read them, are actually really bad for the gaming industry. Even if this is Sony vs Nintendo, as much as I hate Sony, they need to win this.

[@SkyBlueFox1]

Not just less money than what Sakurai spent on his channel - it's only around a *tenth* of what he spent. His costs were "about 90 million yen", or 630k dollars. By comparison, $66k is a drop in the bucket, especially for major players like Nintendo and Sony.

[@chandelurechan2638]

If I am not mistaken the information that came out today also included that Nintendo is seeking the end of sales for Palworld.

[@zihaozhang3714]

I'm pretty sure there is also a clause for pocketpair to stop distributing Palworld along with the payment.

[@fujinshu]

@@chandelurechan2638Probably only in Japan, where it isn’t as popular as in America.

[@Kuwaiden]

34:55 "Huh, why is there a random plane clip here in the video..." "Sony... Failure... Concord... Oooooh"

[@GAHAHAHH]

The joke has more layers to it then I realised because the game Concord was such an overwhelming failure I had completely forgotten about it and it didn't register to me that it shares a name with a plain that was also an expensive failure. Somehow the plane was more memorable to me than the game.

[@mimszanadunstedt441]

Humans are brain-broken by language. Which is why dictionary-dictators exist. Wouldn't be surprised if they are tied to the banks too.

[@danielp1412]

@@GAHAHAHH how could you forget the speedy depresso plane

[@JacobPDeIiNoNi]

I just assumed the plane was flying downward, and the slowly crashing plane with people inside was a metaphor for good devs working on projects that will ultimately crash and burn. I never even considered it could be a play on “concord” but that’s genius

[@NutchapolSal]

the droop snoot, the snoot would droop

[@CappnRob]

so you're telling me this whole thing is just the latest battlefield in the Playstation 5 has No Games saga, which is in turn just a proxy war for Sony's 30 year grudge over Nintendo not letting them assimilate them? somehow, Im not even surprised lmao

[@FusionCode]

The two best reviewed games of the year are both PS5 exclusives, what did Nintendo release this year? And the whole reason Sony joined the games business is because Nintendo stabbed them in the back after they had a partnership. God, Nintendo fanboys are the dumbest people on earth.

[@godlyBlade]

Classic Sony. All it needs is a PSN data breach to complete the story.

[@RRed19]

I mean after the rather shit year Sony has they see little to lose and a ton to gain. What better vengeance than to attack someone who has burned you in the past (albeit they did it because Sony wanted to eat Nintendo like lunch and from what was said here, Nintendo wanted to work together, not get eaten.) This comes off less like Nintendo is taking shots at an indie dev that did an excellent job at parodying their games, and more like they have to now shoot Sony while it uses Pocketpair as a hostage/business shield while Sony shoots them in the face. It looks personal from the outside, but Nintendo’s actions don’t strike me as targeted attacks on Pocketpair, it isn’t personal. Sony is making it personal tho by using the company as a shield and a purposeful victim to destroy Nintendo’s credibility, and that is a problem.

[@ember9361]

@@RRed19 poor nintendo, they'd never, EVER go after indie devs... *sniffs*

[@tranquility6789]

Good lord these comments are full of Pokéshills lmao

[@uncolaman99]

Thanks! Splendid presentation!

[@takarahayashi4124]

Short Answer: Sony Long Answer: Sony

[@totomen666]

Well, Palworld is their last hope, since everything else corrupted by woke mindvirus

[@zeppie_]

Longer answer: Sooooonyyyy

[@michaelbuckers]

Sony DARED to back Nintendo's competitors. Clearly that's not allowed, Nintendo is entitled to its many monopolies and they shall be protected. Clearly Sony is the villain here. BRUH.

[@takarahayashi4124]

@@michaelbuckers you either didn't watch the video or your comprehension skills is severely lacking.

[@ConductorElcrest]

@@michaelbuckers it’s more so Sony trying to get Nintendo back from what I understand. They want Nintendo, and they’ll do whatever it takes to get Nintendo so if they have to take the long roundabout way of getting the Nintendo, they’ll take the long roundabout way of getting the Nintendo honestly, I doubt they could care less about who is in the way.

[@brendanfalvy1281]

I knew it had to involve Sony. I'd heard months ago that Pocket Pair had some arrangement with Sony that might involve Palworld merch and it made me suspicious that Nintendo's response was somehow related, even though the lawsuit was for patent infringement. Nice to see that there is a lot to chew on here.

[@lordlopes7777]

Nintendo sure still hate Sony for what they were trying to do to Nintendo in the 90's,which was really evil.

[@angel_of_rust]

between that and how much Astro Bot really ripped off of Nintendo's entire history, it suddenly makes sense. Sony not only has no games, they really SHOULDN'T. Sony having even one game is literally a curse. Alexa, play "One Game" by Linkin Park

[@tranquility6789]

​@@angel_of_rustthis is insane bootlicking

[@snintendog]

@@angel_of_rust I hate Sony but It shows just how EVIL nintendo really is. Sony Can make good games it just has to wait for ILLEGAL PATENTS to expire from Nintendo.

[@misaafton]

​@lordlopes2424 I doubt it if they originally partnered with Microsoft moony didn't do his research

[@marrav3794]

I want to say that your long form videos are the only ones that I can sit through. I love how you tackle everything so thoroughly while never forgetting the nuances of the topics you talk about or the audience of people who you're talking to. Stay awesome, Moony! 💜🌙

[@jaybeans981]

I look forward to Moon finishing this one and then like three weeks later Nintendo starts another lawsuit and he has to make ANOTHER video explaining it

[@moon-channel]

If that happens again, I might just skip it and do a cultural video. I have a sneaking suspicion that people are getting tired of the legal content.

[@cci6017]

@@moon-channel I'm certainly not getting tired of it! Be it legal or otherwise, I have always found your videos to be quite gripping :) Sincerely, a viewer since your video on Phoenix Wright and Japan's legal system

[@jaybeans981]

@@moon-channel Eh, you have a way with words where even the driest legalese can be fun.

[@M64bros]

​@@moon-channel No one's ever sick of your legal content, It actually helps a bunch of people understand the real truth of what's been happening and You're pretty much the only KZbinr that actually understands and does research more accurately!

[@KnightofChaosDeck]

​@@moon-channel Oh no, I love your legal stuff. Keep doing it!

[@gregorymansour1763]

This is so refreshing after weeks of daily content creators pretending to understand Japanese business/culture/law. I'd love to see you tackle more of these commonly parroted misconceptions about Japan, especially regarding the law.

[@plebisMaximus]

People being confidently wrong about things they know little to nothing about is just a part of human nature as old as the species itself.

[@Guy-cb1oh]

The video creator doesn't know much either. In another video, the dude flat out accused all anime of being propaganda supported by the Japanese government.

[@Giguv05]

@Guy-cb1oh And that is incorrect because?...

[@Guy-cb1oh]

@@Giguv05 it's incorrect because it isn't true...

[@wisefelipe]

​@@Guy-cb1ohthat is a gross misrepresentation of a 3 hour long video.

[@RemnantCult]

Copyright law just makes me more of an anarchist, I can't lie. Thus these videos on copyright are hard for me to digest. The original intention of protecting "the little guy" has gone mute for years now and now copyright is the right arm of powerful forces in our market world.

[@GrimMeowning]

Even in his explanation it is basically - Nintendo want to uphold monopoly. So everyone should hope that Nintendo lose.

[@ANDELE3025]

Its not IP law thats the fault, its the literally american roomtemp lawyers and european roomtemp judges that dont even know the part of trade law they are representing in court 80% of the time and even more often the market its related to. Nepotism, corruption, petty status power plays and genuinely complete illiteracy of both laws and treatises are to blame. Not that some things in IP law depending on the country arent entirely retarded like the US allowing the increase to lifetime+x decades or that protections IP laws grant are allowed to be linked to legal entities as a entity no matter its composition and staff instead of real/natural persons in the first place.

[@davidtitanium22]

@@GrimMeowning patent law was always about giving a temporary monopoly for creative ideas but the way it works is so bad (anyone can try to patent anything) it's so easily misused, and you HAVE to play into the system or someone else WILL use it against you. But while you only ever hear of all its misuse, there'd be no fanwork if the original never existed, and there'd be less incentive to make the original when anyone can copy anyone else. tldr: Your moral standings are not grounded on reality and its possible consequences

[@svenbtb]

*moot, not mute

[@yt-lh8kk]

Laws should not side 'little guys' or 'big players'. They should offer equal protection to any entities regardless of size. If 'big players' can't protect their IPs, then 'small guys' should not be able to claim protection for their works. If 'small guys' can claim protection for their works, so should 'big players' be allowed to do so. That said, I'll just pirate both of them whenever I have the chance.

[@PurplesttCoffee]

This video has fundamentally changed my brain chemistry. Nothing like my favorite children's media franchise to make me even more cynical about how companies operate!

[@mr.x2567]

Why do you think I see humans as inherently corrupt by nature?

[@LordSiravant]

@NookLaggen The devs don't hate you, the legal department does.

[@tigrexkiller1548]

Man that dig at Concord was as subtle as a brick in the face... and I laughed way to hard at it lol

[@DrOpty]

It hits even harder since Sony shut down the developer of Concord today, which reinforces the point being made in that section

[@GAHAHAHH]

As subtle as going faster than the speed of sound in a residential area.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@GAHAHAHH as the Concorde (with an E) flying over a neighbourhood at low altitude.

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

The ending of the section with the "Viva la Vida" rip was such fire writing and editing, I audibly let out a gasp

[@jorgenjorgensen2739]

Well, now it ALL makes more sense... this will be a great battle.

[@barrettbirks1058]

Extremely strange take about a situation that will most likely end in everyone getting fired

[@jorgenjorgensen2739]

@barrettbirks1058 it's not strange, this is the reality of the corporate world. It will be a great battle between two massive companies: not "great" as in good, "great" as in large or intensity above normal or average. Please don't push your biases into my comment.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@jorgenjorgensen2739 So it wont be a spectacle then? Does that mean my popcorn means zilch now?

[@jorgenjorgensen2739]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 that depends on how the court proceedings go. It could become a spectacle. Keep the popcorn ready.

[@KoOk-h1d]

​@jorgenjorgensen2739 Hey, I'm back from 6 days ago. Nintendo is forcing them to paless than 30,000 dollars. Poketpair can definitely pay so it may not be a war after all.

[@MajoraZ]

While I get that Trademarks are more legally fragile, so companies favor of launching Copyright or less often Patent lawsuits instead... I'm not sure I get how Palworld threatens Pokemon's trademark? It's not that the name or logos are similar and that Palworld would likely invalidate Pokemon's trademarks (right?), the "threat" is Sony (via Palworld) being a strong competitor. So while Sony/PocketPair isn't merely a "small indie company" (which Nintendo avoids using Patent suits against), Nintendo is still is using patents to shut out a competitor, unless i'm misunderstanding? (You bring up other stuff at 49:46 but don't dwell on it). It also doesn't change that Patents CAN cover Gameplay systems, UI elements, or other in-game features, which I think many people find fundamentally problematic and worrying... in fact I suspect a lot of people weren't even aware such things could be patented! On that note, I'd like to see you cover what can or can't be patented in terms of video games in another video: I was hoping to see more on that here since, while lawsuits over patented gameplay or UI elements might be rare, that's still obviously a big sword companies can hold over each others head and I think that's a legal aspect of the industry not a lot of people understand or think about much: As an example, while I'm absolutely not an expect, I feel like I understand Copyright and how it intersects with things better then most people, (in that I at least follow some major cases and read some law journal papers on Copyright developments... tho not nearly with the same frequency/comprehension as Mesoamerican studies), wheras I'm pretty much clueless for what parts of a video game could or couldn't be patented, aside from knowing general issues with Software "On a computer" patents and the patent trolling involved with such things. So if even I feel lost about how patents intersect with videogames, then I'm sure that would be something a lot of other people would benefit from too, and it's something i'd love to see you make a video about (alongside, as I always say I want, a video on what the risks actually are of not enforcing Copyright via lawsuits, and what the implications of rulings like Petrella v. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer are)! Something I'm also curious about here is what Nintendo actually hopes the outcome is if your assessment is on point: If it really IS about fighting what it sees as the potential for Sony to get it's own Pokemon, and the specific patents being allegedly infringed is unimportant, then I'm struggling to understand what the intended endgame is: Presumably, Nintendo could have dozens, if not hundreds of patents that Palworld or could be infringing, so it's not really feasible for PocketPair to just change every patent Nintendo can allege they're violating, and even if they could Nintendo may not consider that enough since Palworld could still take off and benefit Sony, which is why Nintendo merely demanding licensing fees for the patents also seems like it may not be enough. Is Nintendo trying to bankrupt Pocketpair into going out of business entirely? What would the result be if Pocketpair manages to survive an extended court case and whatever damages the Japanese legal system puts in place, would Nintendo just have to move on then? Also, here's a small channel donation! Patreon is iffier for me but I love the work you do and want to support that! --------- Lastly, I saw in another comment you were thinking about focusing on cultural videos for a bit: Would you be interested in doing a video on how games, comics, anime etc depict and use influences from the Prehispanic Latin America/how JP vs Western works interpret it, and how visual tropes in such depictions often originate from different 17th-18th and 20th century art movements? Maybe also how such stereotypes persist in contrast to improved representation with US/Canadian Indigenous cultures? I follow Mesoamerican (Aztec, Maya etc) history and archeology: I keep up with the literature, attend conferences, regularly speak with professional researchers, etc and often do consulting and act as a writer on the topic for other KZbinrs. So I'd be in a position to assist and I could see that video fitting in alongside your "Korean Gender War", "Why aren't there any good Christian Games", "Why does Japan love Brazil" etc videos! I had sent an email (and a followup) pitching it but I never got a reply, but I know sometimes the channels I work with have issues getting my emails, so I figured i'd ask again here. If you're not interested though, no worries!

[@moon-channel]

I'm favoriting this comment so that I can remember to come back to it to respond in more detail: thank you for the kind gesture, Majora! I'm a bit tired, but let me see if I can give an answer. The short answer is that if one imagine a trademark as a skyscraper, a game like Palworld, which is designed as a parody with every similar looking characters and mechanics, combined then with a massive marketing push in hopes of establishing a global franchise, takes away from the distinctiveness of Pokemon, and can lead to consumer confusion. That's a very nebulous term though, right? Which is why trademark suits are rare, that and you have a lot to lose. If your building is especially important, and it's being sieged by an especially dangerous foe, you might choose to sortie the garrison of a lesser building (patents) to relieve the more important building (trademark). As for Meso-American history or indigenous studies, that does sound interesting: I have no scholarly background in either field though, whereas East Asian history and Asian politics is something I've studied quite a bit. If I can think of an idea I'll certainly reach out to you!

[@MajoraZ]

@@moon-channel Thanks for the reply! And yeah I get the consumer confusion element, I just wasn't sure how big a deal it was since you only sort of mentioned it in passing rather then as a major part of the video. I'm quite curious what implications that has for what Nintendo wants the outcome to be: If it's to avoid consumer confusion and by extension brand damage, then as with "preventing Sony from getting their own mega-franchise" being a main factor, it doesn't seem like PocketPair changing the patented mechanics or giving Nintendo licensing fees would be enough to address Nintendo's concerns, since Palworld would still heavily resemble Pokemon and it's growth would still help Sony even if Nintendo gets a cut. So what Nintendo's ideal outcome is (alongside what actually can or can't be patented) are the sort of things I'd love to hear you expand on, either in another reply or someday in another video As far as the Mesoamerican stuff, the video with that I think would most fit your existing culture videos would be, as I said, something which touches on how those influences tend to get depicted in pop culture, the 17th-19th century art history origins of those media tropes, and how by contrast media depictions of things with American and Canadian Indigenous influence in games, film, etc has moved away from it's more stereotypical depictions, vs LATAM Indigenous tropes persisting. I feel like that video concept meshes with how your cultural videos tend to focus on how media depicts and features sociological concepts (be it gender or specific cultures), and how you often tie things into earlier historical trends (or the origins of specific companies) etc. But that's ultimately just one idea, I'd be happy to do more/others. I know that aside from the "Why aren't there any good Christian Games" video most of the culture videos have focused on a Japanese or Korean perspective, so as you say, Mesoamerica is quite a bit outside of that niche, but I do think there's some interesting trends one can comment on about how Japanese media tends to interpret those tropes I alluded to vs how Western media does it, but I do get that it might still be a bit too out of your wheelhouse. If you do wanna discuss it more, though, you can reach me at [e-mail] ; that's where I sent my initial emails from as well! I can also link some examples of my past projects with other channels from there

[@kampfer91]

@@moon-channel But one thing , Nintendo does not own the concept of cutesy monster design , and the whole consumer confusion is far-fetch , if people want Pokemon they will definitely search for Pokemon and Pokemon basically a giant franchise which ton of merchandise and shows shoving into people face every year , also you can only find Pokemon game on Nintendo platform . If Nintendo was such a worry wart they should have taken down Palworld right when the tease trailer came out but they didn't cus it wasn't worth of theirs attention and what happen right now is the consequence .

[@anotherbacklog]

There’s a small nuance missing. Pocket Pair is also involved in generative AI development. Rumor goes that Palworld used Pokémon as training data, some goes as far as the artists of Palworld blow the whistle after being replaced by AI. Fortunately or unfortunately there’s no way to prove or disprove this. Even Palworld is to be found guilty, laws around generative AI is pretty much non existent. Nintendo is definitely bitter about this but there’s little they can do about it. The only weapon they have is the patents.

[@kampfer91]

@@anotherbacklog It is twitter dude , it can't be trusted . Would you trust me if i say i work for Nintendo ?

[@thegamer101n]

Moon's videos have always been such an eye opener at just how complicated so many things in the world are. When i saw the lawsuit i was immediately thinking how scummy it was for them to use patents to attack a small company and that pocket world signed up with Sony for support. But this video and more just goes to show how nothing is ever simple in life.

[@calebtitler1847]

Personally they weren’t really “eye opening” for me just helps me understand things more better in a legal POV

[@Matt_M_again]

Me 20 mins into finding you earlier this month: This guy should talk about Palworld Me an hour in: This guy should talk about whatever he damn wants. Me today: 😮

[@Eric188092]

Thanks! I was curious on how the Palword vs Pokemon Nintendo vs Indie was shaping up, and your video was very thorough in explaining what the real fight is about. Nintendo vs Sony.

[@moon-channel]

Thank you for your generosity, Eric! I'm so glad that you enjoyed the video!

[@ॐIo]

Hope Sony wins then. Those patent laws stifle other IPs not just Palworld.

[@ghosteeniesmith6219]

As little survival crafting games are on the market within the last 6 years that include monster taming, I hope Palworld does not get burned in the process

[@BlazeGamerZX]

@@ॐIo Personally I don't like Sony as much as Nintendo either way. Unfortunately Pocket Pair have to get caught in the crossfire.

[@Deluvenai]

​@@ॐIo as much as I hate Sony and know they haven't made a single good console since the ps2 nor good games since bloodborne, and how much I hate their full exclusivity with some of their games (again bloodborne), and how i say no one should get a Playstation anymore just either get a xbox or get a pc, those who buy the ps5 pro, why? No seriously why? It's gonna be 1000$ once these tariffs come through and at that point just get a pc. But besides all that I still want Sony to win, because not only I love palworld but also I don't want to see other companies scared into making games with game mechanics that Nintendo has patented

[@TheMrSeagull]

Kinda depressing that so many people, including youtube "influencers", have only a surface understanding of what is happening here, but are still eager to join outrage mobs and spread misinformation. I've realized that the more people seem upset about something, the the more likely it is that they know little about whatever it is that made them mad.

[@MatildatheMoonwolf]

SAY LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

[@maestromarat6195]

Showing up to presidential electrion: Pajama pants and a T-shirt Showing up to It's a Palworld After All! A Lawyer Explains Nintendo v. Palworld: Suit and tie

[@michaelcutler5538]

"mom, shut up about trump, I'm watching the Internet lawyer man talk about the world's greatest video game franchise, and pokemon too"

[@pandoriasbox]

Real

[@Sapphireeyes104]

I didn't even consider Sony having a part in the whole Palworld thing, but that makes a lot of sense considering that. This was a fun one to learn from, as are the other videos you make. I also wanted to say I really liked the song at the end. You're pretty good at that, and the parody lyrics were fun too. Great video

[@asdfasdfasdf1218]

While it is true that not all doujinshi are r18 (in fact, I estimate only 20% of them are), it seems like nobody outside Japan (and perhaps China) has much interest in the non r18 ones. One can only wonder why Westerners are like that.

[@brettrichardson7924]

"nintendo is kind" man I get the culture difference but coming from a guy who supports nexon games you have to understand companies can only act with kindness as a coincedence, the action is either a single persons venture or brought to make profit or an ulterior goal. Thank you for sharing this perspective I can kind of understand the japanese point of view but after pokemon uranium and other countless DMCA against silly small projects I dont care about nintendos future I just want the best product as a consumer.

[@wintereclipse3263]

They also recently tried to destroy gaming as a whole as they tried to gain the rights to platforms which would mean nobody could use them anymore. Basically destroying platforming genre's and maybe all genre's as a whole. Of course if a country enforced it which I doubt but they couldn't simply because they weren't the first anyways.

[@darschpugs4690]

@@wintereclipse3263 it does not matter who is the first to create something when it comes to patents most of the time it comes down to who owns a patent or filled first.

[@wintereclipse3263]

@@darschpugs4690 Maybe but it was rejected anyways. The big thing is that they still tried.

[@svenbtb]

You clearly missed his video about Pokemon Showdown/Fangames. He addresses Uranium and why projects like it get shut down by Nintendo

[@Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

The most 'baffling'* part is there's a whole section of this very video saying companies are ruthless monsters. *:It's not baffling, this is libertarian philosophy. He's trying to bullshit everyone into thinking being total scum is good because it's how you win, even when he's wrong about Nintendo needing to be litigious towards small company works in the US.

[@shroomer3867]

The funniest thing about Sony is that they have one of the strongest IPs when it comes to gaming and return business but they refuse to absolutely use them. So for example: - LittleBigPlanet, one of the most creative games out there by a long shot. Fans want a sequel done by a good developer studio since the last one didn't hit the mark. What do they do instead? A platformer with no create mode and then complete radio silence afterwards... - Uncharted, a great game series which has a good story, graphics, and most likely "inspired" the Tomb Raider series, they made a fourth installment during the PS4 era, but no more. I get that making more would milk it a bit, but there would be a lot of return business and you could reboot it with a different character or side stories. Instead they make a movie with Tom Holland for some reason as Drake (Tom Holland is a great actor but the roles don't fit here) which flopped... - Ratchet & Clank, now, I know they made a main game when the PS5 came out, but that's the issue, they only made 1 installment of the game, when back in the PS3 era they used to make spinoff after spinoff with surprisingly good quality, it wouldn't be unusual to see 5 games of the series in one playstation console era. - InFamous and Sly Cooper, both made by Rocket Punch Production which is still active making games like Ghost of Tsushima. They were beloved franchises by fans and it wouldn't be that unrealistic to think that Sucker Punch wouldn't want to continue working on those franchises if Sony greenlit them, but complete radio silence on those since the PS4 - Bloodborne, fans of the Souls-like series absolutely adore this one and go to wild lengths to emulate it as they can, the fans are basically begging to throw money at Sony, and what do they do? Complete radio silence on the thing and no sort of remakes or releases on the PC like they did with God Of War. In other words, Sony has all these franchises up their sleeves, but they completely refuse to use them, or refuse to give the fans what they want and instead do a spinoff or mistreat the franchise. They have all these cool franchises and they are just sitting on them for some reason, maybe they are developing new titles as we speak, but the fact that they felt missing from the PS5 era is a huge miss by them.

[@Solflufficorns]

and theres sooo many more ip's they could still pull out that people are begging for

[@Multi-Waves_Music]

Motorstormmmmm

[@denofpigs2575]

Sorry but those options aren't safe enough and wouldn't appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[@wintereclipse3263]

Little big planets devs seem to be taking a break, Infamous devs said they were tired of the series and won't return for a long time, Ratchet and Clanks devs are working on a large series of games and won't be making a new one till I think it said like 2028 or something like that, Sly Cooper was supposed to return as a movie but it was cancelled and as for the games the devs (Same one as Infamous) said they don't have plans or feel like making a new one. Only 2 on here that Sony could do are Uncharted and Bloodborne as the rest are reliant on the devs who don't feel like it except for Insomniac but they're too busy on other projects.

[@Slender_Man_186]

A big one that you missed is Jak and Daxter, the last mainline numbered entry, Jak 3, was released on the PS2. Since then there was a racing spin off for the PS2, a solo Daxter game on the PSP, and one now non-canon non-numbered sequel released for the PS3 that didn't do so well. Since then, only a remastered collection of the original trilogy for the PS4, I might be missing something, but from what i've been able to find, that's it.

[@EmeralBookwise]

Yeah... from the moment I first heard Poketpair had signed a deal with Sony, I knew this lawsuit had almost nothing to do with crushing a scrapy indie studio, and everything to do with warning off the larger corporation.

[@kabanfriends5764]

As a Japanese person I've always understood why Nintendo had to sue Pocketpair. Now I don't have really any opinion about whether I'm against or for Nintendo/Pocketpair because frankly I play neither Pokemon nor Palworld, but thank you for explaining things to the English audiences. The misunderstanding of those Internet speculations was bugging me a lot.

[@daniel8181]

The shame is americans have a completely free use site from the JPAA in perfectly translated english and they refused to understand even the most basic ways which patents operate in either japan or anywhere else for that matter, opting instead to spread this meme of "backwards japan" that "needs to be dragged into the 21st century" for their "evil" patent system designed by the yakuza to help nintendo financially destroy their competition, which they only havent done before because they just didnt feel like it.

[@DeityDiz93]

It was refreshing to see as a part of that English audience, There's not a lot I want to misunderstand or speculate on because there's always a reason behind these things and it was awesome to see the Japanese perspective on things in this video.

[@snintendog]

and your a sheep.

[@SuperM789]

@@snintendog you're*

[@diablo.the.cheater]

@@SuperM789 yo'ur'e'*

[@mattd923]

Hey, just a note about fair use / parody from another IP attorney - you never really know where a court is going to land on fair use, and the Supreme Court just further complicated things with their Warhol decision. There's a running joke among practitioners / academics that there's a secret 5th fair use factor: "Don't be evil." I.e., winning a fair use case is just as much about persuading the Court that you're a nice, good, artistic creator and the company coming after you is a jerk as it is about actual law. I also don't think Palworld would try to defend themselves on fair use grounds, at least not exclusively. Nintendo has strong factor 4 (Effect of the Use on the Potential Market for or Value of the Work) arguments - you can call it a parody, but you've made a game that is a direct competitor appealing to the same consumers. When you argue fair use, you are admitting that you've taken copyrighted material. So Palworld's better argument would probably be to argue that no copyright infringement has happened at all, that copyrights for characters (presumably individual pokemon) do not extend far enough to cover their imitators. Edit: having finished the video, I'm even more convinced they couldn't sustain a fair use argument. You don't get to launch a huge multimedia franchise doing all the same things as Pokemon and still be a "parody." That's a huge factor 4 issue.

[@ragzero6121]

" but you've made a game that is a direct competitor appealing to the same consumers " How a turn-based RPG can be a direct competitor to a third person survival-crafting? Hell, most mechanics of Palworld came directly from Pocketpair's precious game, Craftopia, and most of the world dynamic and systems will remind people of Ark with cartoony monsters instead of dinosaurs.

[@solarcat_]

@@ragzero6121 The fans probably gave them their strongest argument on that front, though. All they have to do is point to all the posts saying that it's "Pokemon with guns" to show that it's being perceived and treated as a direct competitor by consumers.

[@kampfer91]

@@solarcat_ And it is a meme , while the one who play the game agree it is ARK-like , or any survival game out there really . Hearsay have nothing to do with how the game truly is .

[@TheDarknezz73]

@@kampfer91 The point being made isn't that the game is like pokemon, but that it's targetting the same demographic. And that argument has weight in regards to the way the game is marketed with those memes. Even if just memes if the main company accounts are posting them, it is grounds for using that argument as a selling point or form of appealing to those fans. Hence I would argue it isn't just hearsay.

[@EdgardR.]

Bro thinks memes are not serious business ​@@kampfer91

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

Here’s what the whole issue comes down to. If Nintendo can successfully sue over “aiming and throwing a ball at a creature to capture it,” they can sue over “killing an enemy by jumping on its head” and “increasing a score by collecting objects around the environment” and “controlling a character through an environment by moving side to side and jumping between platforms.” Even if they don’t have standing to WIN a lawsuit over these things, they’ve shown when it comes to small fry indy devs, or even big companies that are just not big enough, it doesn’t matter. The THREAT of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit is enough. If they can sue over game mechanics, they can sue over ANY game mechanics. Do we really want an industry where the ONLY developers allowed to exist are the ones directly backed by Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft so they can fight the onslaught of lawsuits over every mechanism they implement in their game?

[@RdTrler]

Imagine drug dealers adding video games to their catalogue. "Hey kids, you wanna buy some PalWorld?"

[@leedlebob2667]

I mean Sega already sued over "arrow pointing at destination" and won. This really is nothing new.

[@user-th1pv6ks5o]

​@leedlebob2667 Same with The Sims and their patent of the push and pull feature for character creation, which then caused paralives to change to a slider system instead.

[@drumstep9135]

I had no idea about the Nintendo v. Colopl lawsuit, but i played Colopl Runestory a long time ago (not all the way through it's shutdown), and loved it. Dragalia lost appealed to me because it was so similar mechanically and reminded me directly of Colopl Runestory. The possible legal connection between those two games is kind of blowing my mind but makes so much sense.

[@lpfan4491]

There was once a game that was similar to Dragalia? Ah man, I probably would have loved that game too. It still sucks that after the initial setup, Nintendo essencially ducked off and left Dragalia to its own devices until it officially died and had to be revived by fans. If Marth and the two FE events wouldn't be in the game, one may actually just forget that it was related to them at all.

[@SkyBlueFox1]

Honestly, this is a super-fascinating video - and I'm not just saying that because Pokemon's involved, eheh. I mentioned this on the community post a while back, but what always gets me about the discourse is that Palworld never really was a Pokemon "competitor" per-say. They're two totally different genres; an RPG series versus a survival-crafting game. It'd be like comparing Zelda 1 to Zelda 2; they're only similar on a surface-level. In an alternate universe, Pokemon and Palworld could easily coexist, because they appeal to two different audiences. If I'm in the mood to play a Pokemon-like game, my mind jumps to DQ Monsters, or those Digimon RPGs or whatever; not Palworld. That's part of what makes the discourse so befuddling - and, in turn, a big part of what makes this whole situation (and the video!) so interesting. Palworld isn't a bad game, but from what I've seen and heard from other people, it really doesn't stand out in any significant way outside of "having off-brand Pokemon". Its success stems entirely from the surface-level notoriety it generated, rather than any particular gameplay hook... and it sounds like Sony was quite literally banking on the notoriety aspect in order to gain a foothold. Which is... weird. Like, "notoriety" isn't exactly the best way to build a healthy, sustainable playerbase. If someone buys Palworld purely to spite Nintendo/Pokemon/etc, there's no guarantee that they're actually going to *play* Palworld, y'know? And a looot of people gassing Palworld up at the time were those kinds of folks. Did they ever boot up the game at all? And if they did, are they still playing now, 11 months later? I mean, sure, maybe the notoriety generated good sales numbers in the short-term... but is that really enough to translate to a solid foundation? Is all this Palworld marketing the result of earnest popularity, or is it Sony pouring money into an IP to drum it up as hard as possible, ala the TMNT craze during the 80s/90s? I have no love for Nintendo's corporate antics, nor do I have any interest in playing Palworld, but this... this just feels weird to me. It feels sad to me. It's so... corporate-brained. EDIT: Figured out a more concise and better way to put my point so I trimmed this a little bit. C'est la vie! :U

[@DatMenno]

This is a comment I was looking for, Palworld as a game is okay, but as a recognizable franchise to go for years to come, idk about that But you know, the creator really found their people with his "i dont want to create something new"-mindset

[@P4ndaGamesBrNoCeuTemPao]

Oh nah Palworld isn't popular solely because of notoriety, lot's of people indeed played it for some time and some still do, myself included (well, until my power supply finally shat itself a month ago by now), the game is super fun and really hooks to keep building and capturing Pals. Some people are not into survival open world games but thats totally fine, I myself absolutely this genre of games. Unfortunely I fear for the worse for Pocketpair now learning that this is more than just a port to Playstation consoles. I love Palworld a lot but I feel like it's game development might change for the worse and the studio could ultimaly end.

[@RRed19]

From the sounds of it, after Sony had a shit year (even with the successes of FF7R) and PS5 sales being low, Sony wanted to give one of their old rivals a black eye in their best franchises. Petty, stupid corporate vengeance stuff.

[@ember9361]

yeah, palworld is cool to play, it goes way beyond just catching Pals you can also catch humans I like building my bases and organizing my pals around, leveling up unlocking shit and whatnot playing with friends is a plus you sound like you speak as an outsider? You seem to think the monsters are all the game's centered around, and no theyre not. The game loop is entertaining on its own-- finding a place for your base and expanding is pretty cool, the level up system keeps things interesting and new Besides, who cares its the cute monsters that draw people in. People wanted a different type of game with pokemon, gf never had any plans to make such game someone else did free market

[@drumstep9135]

@@SkyBlueFox1 the video games may be different genres with different audiences, but the video games are only a relatively small part of Pokemon's overall value as an IP. If Sony is hoping to build Palworld into a similar type of multimedia franchise I can imagine them ending up as much closer competitors in those other forms of media and potentially taking a bite out of the larger "non-game" portion of Pokemon's pie (or at least that's what would be the goal, and what Nintendo/Pokemon Company really wants to avoid).

[@iamgawd6969]

One of the biggest problems I have with pal world is that for yours pokemon Have struggled and dealt with animal cruelty and abuse claimed to know they aren't animals and they're not real pal world takes it to the next level extreme with slavery and abuse while using pokemon's likeness I don't think it's okay

[@khloeprower6087]

Very upset about being told that we can’t just enjoy two cakes because someone might lose money.

[@tutumazibuko2510]

If one of cakes wasn't worth so much money, the other baker wouldn't be getting sued for blatantly trying to copy it

[@benross9174]

Sometimes the baker just rips of the others baker family recipe

[@trumangraham2602]

@@tutumazibuko2510 lEAvE ThE MuLTi BILlIOn DOllAr ComPAnY aLOnE

[@Tojeaux_]

@@benross9174 then sells it to the mega corp down the street

[@HydratedBeans]

@@tutumazibuko2510”blatant copy” lmao.

[@SquidlingTM]

Man, reading through all of these comments and seeing open minded discussion about this topic is phenomenal, especially since a lot of the talks online boil down to “Har Har Nintendo bad” and “Palworld sucks, actually!!” Hopefully if this video does well we don't lose that special sort of interesting nuanced conversation.

[@lulu1997master]

There are definitely some bone-headed comments here and there, but this is still a million times better than most threads/ videos discussing the topic a month or so ago. Moony's content surely helps to foster a smarter and more-open-to-calm-discussion community.

[@Cyrus_T_Laserpunch]

I saw an entire comment section where everyone was claiming that Nintendo was the only company that takes out patents on gameplay mechanics even though the video itself stated all game companies patent mechanics. People don't want to listen or be right, they just want to be mad.

[@kendrickdo4319]

23:25 holy crap. This made me laugh so much. I love that example you gave. Wandering into a fence that is hooked up to a car battery is such a crazy image I'm getting.

[@bazerger6258]

Unfortunately, i'm always gonna be against patent trolling, the idea that you can patent a concept, or patent something, just because it's a "unique" combination of common things, is absurd. They're supposed to be specific, novel solutions to a problem, not "Taking a dump on a Tuesday night, while wearing a a checkered pajamas and crocs, with a neon-blue mohawk and a tatoo saying 'Banana' on your right buttcheek".

[@ederys_delxyde]

Yeah, I'm you 1000% about that.

[@thegamerfe8751]

Nintendo fucking patented the mechanic of throwing an object at a creature and catching it in an open world style game, we legally cannot have any game that's Legends Arceus but better made by a company other than a Nintendo owned one.

[@leedlebob2667]

​@@thegamerfe8751 Actually according to another patant lawyer. If something can be proven to be technologically superior to the supposed patent they are infringing, then the charges are dropped.

[@lordbobby198]

​@@leedlebob2667 "Technologically superior" does palworld fall into this category then?

[@leedlebob2667]

@lordbobby198 I would not think so, since palworld doesn't show any advancements on the particular idea.

[@DeityDiz93]

I had to drop a comment when I saw the mention of doujinshi, the inclusion of Pokemon Type:Wild, and the inclusion of the article mentioning ZUN, the creator of Touhou Project, at 26:10 because the skimmed nature of this video barely does justice to how cool this inclusion is for those of us in the know of this kind of thing. Indeed the nature of Doujinshi doesn't really elicit a snicker from me because stuff like Type:Wild got to exist without getting so much as a swing from the Big N because it was a made-from-scratch project that borrowed no assets from any of Nintendo's games, and that's a big deal in Japan. There was even involvement in Type:Wild someone closely involved in the Pokemon anime for crying out loud, that's a huge tie and still Type:Wild as a fan made Pokemon fighting game gets to exist in Japan! There is even a parallel at 26:40 from AkiLunachild where they showcase Touhou Puppet Dance Performance, a project done by fans who originally made ROM hacks of Pokemon games to include Touhou Project characters, and don't think I didn't notice the music you included that had Bad Apple in the backing tracks of the video, nice touch there. Anyways, I've followed these hacks for years and saw the rise of it to the originally made-from-scratch Touhou Puppet Dance Performance, and this person's assessment in their translation you showcased of it is totally correct, Nintendo has super kindly allowed the sale of this game because ZUN not only allows Touhou Project fan works to thrive in that series by allowing super accessible terms to his series through the Guidelines for Touhou Project Fan Creators (look it up it's super cool), but Nintendo has actively published Touhou fan games for the Switch, I've even seen a few Touhou games on my local store shelves in the west which was mind blowing to see the kind of nice treatment over here. That all alongside a boom of Touhou games on Steam, and even Sony stuff too. This served as a nice reinforcement to the moment at 28:26 because this highlights to me that the social rules in Japan hold very true even in regards to Touhou Puppet Dance Performance, because Toby Fox proves that he can foster a working relationship with Nintendo with an inclusion of his character in Smash, a close composer relationship within Pokemon itself as he made some of the biggest musical pieces for their Pokemon games, and has a really close friendship with ZUN, the creator of Touhou. Palworld itself violating that social boundary you mentioned is key to me because that social boundary is what allows stuff like Type:Wild, Touhou Puppet Dance Performance, Nintendo/Team Shanghai Alice's apparent kindness - even collaboration with consoles, and the uniquely close bridge the west has with Japan through examples like Toby Fox. I hope people in the west will come to understand the east's social boundaries here and learn how to vie for the kindness that is shown in example like these you showed. Overall, I'm super impressed with this video, and your insight to look even in obscure places. I hope you decide to do a coverage of Touhou Project on the channel and the relationship dynamics with big names like Toby Fox and how it all ties in. There are tons of interviews and interactions from that man alone with ZUN, and Nintendo that show there is real potential for the western world to find common ground with the way things are in Japan, instead of all this seeming remaining divide. I believe certainly that there is a possibility of the west to understand the nature of the self-published work and "made-from-scratch" appreciation Japan has for its fan-made art and creations and would love to see a bridge of the east and west here.

[@DeityDiz93]

Yoooo, thank you so much for the heart Moonie, it's very much appreciated! I had not expected to get recognized like that, but it makes me super stoked. Many thanks and cheers to you!

[@jirehtheprovider]

I like it a lot on this case of the way Japanese business form of kindness and welcoming usage of IP. So to simply it in more layman terms that any everyday person or artist can do?

[@blackmark2899]

Not gonna happen because the starting points of the east and west are completely different. In the east, respect and social boundaries are already there and people just abide without ever questioning. The west meanwhile has you build that from zero. The level of respect and grace the east gives something like Nintendo by default and offhand has to be earned and maintained. And when you do actions that make you seem as unfriendly as possibly, you will get that same hostility in return. It's a matter of culture, not understanding. Even if we understand it, to us it's just plain stupid. Respect is not given one sidedly, it's a two way street. Give the respect you demand to be given. Even if people aren't fans of Pocket Pair, Nintendo aren't earning points in the west. In fact from their interactions with the western audience, it's just the opposite and their recent actions only increase that view. Nintendo and by extension Japan has done this to themselves because they refuse to understand the west's viewpoint.

[@GreyVictory1510]

​@@blackmark2899But if you are using something from an IP owned by a Japanese company or person, shouldn't you first be adhering to their standard practices?

[@GreyVictory1510]

Even after this video reading through the comment section a lot of people seem to not understand the difference when some fanworks get accepted and others get shut down resulting from how IPs are handled in Japan. It is nice to see someone appreciating that part of the video. I thought it was pretty well explained. At least from where I come from with previous knowledge from Touhou and so on.

[@AngelOfNoMercy]

@6:37 i beleve it was a wise man who once said "making the mother of all omelettes here jack, you can't fret over every egg."

[@AngelOfNoMercy]

@28:54 microsoft!!! im kidding its sony.

[@jackzicrosky]

It's crazy how no matter what the dispute, no matter what the reason it's always the consumer that has to suffer.

[@zzthedon4k]

yes and make it clear WHY. Because I promise you its not Palworld that's the cause. Megacorps like Nintendo literally only hurt people. We may not realize it because of the games we get from them, but we never see the games we COULD'VE gotten if wasn't due to these practices

[@persel_hd]

@@zzthedon4k gaslighting at its finest

[@musickid43]

The thought that any company has enough generic patents to sue half of the industry sounds like a problem.

[@BikiniLongjarhorn]

Nintendo should be in court for trying to monopolize gaming by itself

[@RadikaRules]

Welcome to the stupid realm of software patents, or if I may get so bold. Patents in general

[@mimszanadunstedt441]

Just view money strategizing as similar to war or multiplayer gaming strategizing and everything will make sense.

[@VixYW]

@@mimszanadunstedt441 Oh, it makes sense. Doesn't mean they should have that power in the first place. "We're just protecting ourselves" screw them protecting their billions. That's a deathcon we're just hoping they will never use indiscriminately. And all it takes is 1 crazy guy getting to the top position by whatever means and pressing the red button that shouldn't ever exist.

[@Eleyvie]

In a way, this seems to be a problem that solves itself. All big players have enough patents to sue half of the industry, so whoever breaks the status quo will get buried in all the lawsuits in retaliation. And lawsuits are extremely long, costly and unreliable even against smaller upstarts, so a big player who wastes their time and money on hunting down newcomers will soon run out of both. Sure, sooner or later one of the big guys might decide to go all out guns blazing, and governments will have to scramble in response because the flood of lawsuits will tear the industry apart, and that might become the beginning of the end of software patents in general (at least in their current form). But we're not there yet.

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

Man, maybe organizing our entire society to form the ground for a win-at-all-costs game of capital played by lawyers and the manchildren who pay them, where you and I and our livelihoods are resources to be bought, traded, and expended was a mistake

[@Personatale]

A little clarification on the Colopl lawsuit Colopl at the time tried to patent touchscreen movement with a joystick that can appear anywhere you touch and was demanding other companies pay licencing fees to use said patented technology but as it turns out Nintendo had already owned the patent and preceded to sue Colopl.

[@daniel8181]

colopl fafo.

[@snintendog]

Given Colopol NEVER FILED FOR THE PATENT. I dont Believe the Nintendrone Bullshit Spewing about that case either.

[@spooky-scarecrow]

that was already debunked.

[@fyrflyr2378]

Did this actually happen? People keep bringing that up but don't bother giving a source.

[@viniciustomal3219]

@@fyrflyr2378 The source is Yoshiki Okamoto, that worked at Capcom and Konami talked about it on a video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3zTm4eAbL5pY5o , he talked about colopl trying to patent the punicon.

[@Rot8erConeX]

25:08 As someone who joined dA like, *right* before the logo change, thank you for using the old logo. I understand how the new logo derives itself from the "lowercase D, capital A" stylization, but it's not at all obvious, and with how long it has been, most newcomers aren't even gonna care.

[@Badylird]

I joined dA In 2016. the new logo Is ok, kind of looks like a weird stick or a % sign. the older one will always be nostalgic though. and the site has definitely gone downhill, with the AI stuff

[@Zetact_]

Another reason for the East/West divide on IP among the general population may be that ironically even though the West is a more individualistic culture in general, it's WEIRDLY extremely collectivist when it comes to intellectual property and especially media. Contrast Japan, even though its culture could be described as more collectivist as a whole, has a history of media being more creator-driven which may mean they are more receptive to protecting intellectual property. For an illustrative example: Often if you see an American talk about a Japanese work, say, a manga, and they want to talk about the writing they may subconsciously use the term "the writers," plural, even though most manga only have a singular writer who is typically also the artist, usually being guided by a single editor (and while many Japanese editors are known for taking immense creative control, it usually is dependent on the specific publication and the relative level of clout that the mangaka has). This is probably because most American media is written by a team, with the lead creative maybe being a leader but still abdicating much of the creative process. Also it might be in part due to decades of propaganda but the general public sentiment in the United States is against intellectual property protectionism, and giving outright refusal to even entertain the idea that they are important. This ironically means that IP holders need to be far more aggresive in using the legal protections they have, because if they don't protect their IPs the American media landscape IS more likely to take "collective ownership" of the IP. When something that is obviously an attack on someone's IP has legal action taken against it, the Japanese response is that, yes, the violation of the social contract is obvious and in the case of Palworld that would be why they're against Pocket Pair. Meanwhile in the States you're seeing sentiments of people turning their nose up about the idea of patenting game systems, due to both not understanding how patent law works and also not understanding WHY IP law exists. Most people have no respect for IP laws, because they don't understand their significance, all they really interact with for IP laws are stories about Steamboat Willie or copyright strikes which make them have this perception of IP protections as only being shackles rather than vitally important for the creative process.

[@PlansalagaDon]

Then that explains why Pokemon had no issues with Palworld when they were just with Xbox. Sony is their true enemy, and they were concerned for their own IP once Palworld partnered with Sony. This honestly is quite sad.

[@ausgod538]

Then? This js literally a bunch of theories don't use it as facts

[@SuperM789]

@@ausgod538 "NOOOOOOOO STOP DISAGREEING WITH MEEEEEE STOOOOOOOOP"

[@retnuhytnuob4068]

It's not necessarily 'no issues', as much as 'the issues weren't problematic enough for the risk', when the battle would require a patent based suit, (with its risks and drawn out expense) since PalWorld doesn't rise to a sufficient level of 'copyright infringement' under Japan or US precedent.

[@tranquility6789]

​@@SuperM789it's literally just a theory, and a stupid one at that

[@ITR]

When did Pocket Pair sign a deal with Xbox?

[@GuillerMak37]

This is an eye-opening video. Seeing the discourse of the internet one might think this is a simple story of a big guy going after a small guy, but it is truly more complicated than that. More people need to watch this video.

[@natalimoina]

It still is

[@svenbtb]

More people should watch Mooney period! Not only are his videos great of course, but he gives a lot more context and explains things that people online are always yelling about but don't actually understand what's happening (eg Yuzu getting DMCA'd, etc)

[@skyisthelimit5078]

​@@natalimoinanot when sony is involved. I didn't know they partnered with the Palworld devs and even set up a company to manage Palworld, like when Nintendo set up the pokemon company for Game Freak. LOL. If Nintendo truly wanted to, they could have sued Palworld way back but they probably didn't as Palworld was a small indie company so not that much of a threat for them. A few alarm bells went off when Palworld became a major hit but still not deemed a threat just yet as again, they are still indie devs. The moment they partnered with Sony though, is when Nintendo had to act. Palworld is getting sued but they have Sony behind them so basically, this is now Sony vs Nintendo. LMAO Man, the problem I have with Nintendo is why they didn't approach Pocket Pair sooner when they saw it was a major success

[@ToastyUlysses]

its funny that pretty much all "Capsule monster" styled games are entirely based around Tsuburaya's Ultraseven, Seven had 3 Kaiju held within Capsules that he would use every once in a while.

[@royhyaku]

When Pokcketpair announced their merge with Sony, I knew things were gonna get spicy.

[@TheSapphireLeo]

Also careful to avoid AAVE, if not a black person, passed off as "slang" and "internet culture", when not everyone in the black community want it used, and for many important plausible reasons? Like black erasure and misrepresentation?

[@uberculex]

@@TheSapphireLeo What are you talking about? Wrong video?

[@snazzydrew]

​@@TheSapphireLeo Hey shut up. I'm black and what you are saying is "speaking that way is scary and bad be careful" Full stop. You have been fooled into thinking you're fighting for anyone when you are actually fighting against our connection... I won't hate you unless you double down and decided that you definitely know more than you do... Your comment made me afraid to type in the natural way that I would... And I'm black... I wouldn't want a weirdo online deciding that the words I was using were dangerous. People like you are so toxic. And you probably can't even see it.

[@bowserjrimacasualshutup6754]

​@@TheSapphireLeo sir, this is a wendy's

[@kumoko3728]

@@TheSapphireLeo Okay grandpa let's get you back you bed

[@nombreapellido3662]

As some sort of tldr (as far as i understood) it would be: Palworld is Sony's new toy that has potential to grow due to Sony resources and that Sony's interested into using it against Nintendo, and so Nintendo already sets a response

[@ॐIo]

Nintendo's response should be a game not a lawsuit. Anti competitive behavior

[@pedroscoponi4905]

@@ॐIo Welcome to late stage capitalism, population: all of us, unfortunately

[@mimszanadunstedt441]

The point of lawsuits is to damage their income so the next game they produce is worse. Yeah its anti-competitive. Thats the nature of entities in capitalism. Individualism lmao.

[@miimiiandco]

​@ॐIo That's not how it works.

[@byronlyons3548]

@@ॐIo Game devs are not lawyers, and the lawyers are not game devs. Hope you understand by now.

[@lifestream_real]

I appreciate the much-needed context in all of this. It really helped me understand the whole situation better. Thank you *SO MUCH* for all the hard work and dedication you put into all of these videos of yours; you always help contextualise complicated issues in such a way where they become much easier to understand. Simply put, your hard work's paid off; your work's amazing and breathtaking! Keep on bein' awesome, Moony~! Also, I *LOVED* your parody of "It's a Small World" at the end. You have a lovely voice both when both speaking, and singing, Moony. 😊

[@DigitalWorldArchive]

All this discussion of Trademarks, patents, and copyrights reminded me of the Tamagotchi rip-off situation, which influenced the creation of Digimon and made it what it ended up being in contrast to Pokémon. In 1996 when Tamagotchi was first released in Japan many similar products appeared. However, it would be easy to expect the usual back and forth of the companies saying "It's not a rip-off, our product has its own unique aspects and you can't even say using Egg-shape is copying when so many products use that", but there was also the situation that Bandai had no proper IP/Patent/Trademark management, Tamagotchi had not been patented. The only thing they had was a department that would manage the merchandising rights licenses with publishers and anime production companies, since they seemed to be unable to do anything against Tamagotchi copies, their only saving grace was the Unfair Competition Prevention Act and during that whole problem they started to pay more attention to IP/Copyright/Trademark, as in interviews they stated that before they "just had a different concept of IP different from that of other companies", but the moment that copies started to hurt Tamagotchi sales they had to act and start setting up a proper management system so this wouldn't repeat again. Curious enough, after the initial test sales of Tamagotchi one of the developers, Horimura Ayumu, thought that maybe they could use the same concept as Tamagotchi, but in a different direction and then started to create a boy-focused product that would incorporate fighting elements into Tamagotchi. This project was called by many names such as Fighting Tamagotchi, Otokotchi, and Capsule Zaurus. The concept was to have many cute monsters with basic color palettes based on elements, these monsters would have affinities to the elements of their colors and would live inside capsules that could be called out to fight against other similar monsters. It didn't take much time for them to notice that this, looked very similar to "the product of another company" and this time, they would have been the ones called the copy. Trying to prevent this, they decided to completely change the art design from cute elemental monsters to cool muscular monsters based on 90s comic book artists, the setting changed from monsters living inside capsules into monsters that were created from Digital Data that would live inside digital cages. And so Capsule Zaurus became Digital Monsters, Digimon. Funny enough, the lead artist thought that Digital Monster/Digimon would still be very similar to the name of the "other companies' product" and feared they wouldn't get the trademark for it, but was very surprised that they in fact got it. There are so many curious events in the making of Digimon and how much they tried to both follow the hype of Pokémon while trying to be very distinct for it. Even as of now, Tamagotchi and Digimon are at the top of Bandai's Patent and Trademark page and are used as examples of when they first started to care about really protecting their IP rights.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

Reminded that losing sales because of Bootlegs is BULSHIT You cant metric this shit with any actual reality Is like predicting Voting by 1 region of a country. What this tells you is that: 1-The company percive their reveneu wasnt Up to par with Exponential growth. Meanig, they crash face first against realiy 2- The company's product is not improving or even Lowering its quality 3- effects could be by Bad distribution or them being GREEDY Trying to lie to get money. The case Of Japan sueing Pirate sites in south america is prime example of this How could you loss 10 M of posible revenue when you DONT EVEN SELL HERE!? Fucking made up number is what. Not to mention ignoring that the product hac to be MODIFIED to be consume, effort that the company also DIDNT want to put effort on and that lower "posible profit" further down

[@snintendog]

Thats some nice Fanfiction But Digimon predates Pokemon by a full year.

[@saine-grey]

I had one of these knock offs called Skannerz when I was a kid. I looked it up and it was made by a Chinese company. I also had all of the different Digimon ones up until the fourth gen. I always wanted a normal Tamagotchi when I was a kid too but my parents wouldn't buy me one because that one was 'for girls.'

[@saifors]

@@snintendog Pokemon Red and Green released in February of '96 and the Digital Monster Ver.1 V-pet was first released in June of '97 an addendum however IIRC in an interview it was mentioned that development on the Digital Monster Ver.1 began after an initial test run of Tamagotchi that which would mean this was before the "Official" Tamagotchi release date of November '96, unfortunately I can't remember if we have an exact timeframe @DigitalWorldArchive might have more info on that as I know they run a blog about preserving old behind the scenes info on Digimon

[@DigitalWorldArchive]

@@snintendog That is wrong, Digimon's released in Japan on June 26, 1997. All the information I told is available in books, interviews, and newspapers (A lot of them official Digimon resources with interviews with Digimon's staff like the 20th and 25th Anniversaries Artbooks or directly on livestreams, like one in which both the lead designer of the V-pets and the producer of the anime directly call out their influence from Pokémon).

[@MLESoup]

The amount of "OOOOOOHs" that happened when you mentioned Sony. It's all coming together. Thanks for covering this, I was genuinely looking forward to your take!

[@falsche921]

As good as this video is, there's something I feel wasn't covered well enough. In the video, this lawsuit was described as a desperate defense from a desperate attack by Sony. Now, I understand Sony's side. The narrative behind their rivalry and/or desperation is compelling enough, and even that aside, it's clear what Sony stands to gain, and what Nintendo stands to lose. But what I feel wasn't well explained in the video is: *what does Nintendo stand to gain from this lawsuit?* What is the actual damage this lawsuit can inflict? > Will it impose any restrictions on Palworld while the case isn't yet decided? > Were Nintendo to win, what kind of restrictions, if any, could be imposed on Palworld as a franchise? Would that only affect the games, or also animations, merchandise and so on? For games, could that affect any potential future entries? >> If so, would any such restrictions apply internationally or only in Japan? >> If so, could these restrictions be circumvented? (i.e. Palworld is updated in a way that removes the violations of the patents. Will that change anything?) > Or is it simply an attempt at hurting Palworld's brand reputation, with anything beyond that being essentially a stretch goal?

[@Amanwithbones]

I can’t answer for everything, but the general underline is that it prevents a “dilution” in the market. As Moon said in the video, one less Pokémon product sold, is another Palword product gained. So the choice was either do a fan divisive tactic, and save them from long term damage to their franchise, or let Sony cultivate Palworld, and let it have the rivaling power to the Pokémon franchise. Spite and desperation is a dangerous combination that will cause them to take bold decisions that can have lingering consequences if not properly handled.

[@falsche921]

@@Amanwithbones ​ I understand that Nintendo would want to defend their presence in the market, that's natural. My question was more on what this lawsuit is actually capable of doing. (See the set of questions at the end of OP, that's what I'm really asking) I do not know about patent law and absolutely nothing about it in Japan, so I genuinely don't know what can come out of this. A spot a Palworld plushie takes is a spot a Pokemon plushie loses, sure, but can infringing on game mechanics actually impair production and distribution of merchandise and animations, which aren't games? And so on. Are Nintendo just blowing money and some of their goodwill on an expensive statement (can't imagine the lawsuit is cheap, especially if patent law apparently takes years), or is this an at least somewhat effective defense?

[@chainsta4e1]

In case anybody is wondering what the Touhou Pokemon game is, it's Touhou Puppet Dance Peformance. Even if you don't know Touhou, but want a good pokemon romhack-ish experience, give it a try. It's good.

[@ericwijaya2119]

I second this, the only problem about the game is oh dear god the download process

[@darkrising8280]

when Sony’s name was dropped i audibly gasped. This is actual cinema

[@Oscar97o]

Or, as we say, Kino.

[@Kurtis.E]

awesome video, very informative. honestly I didn't look at the length, I was only here for a 10 min video max. but I stayed through to the end, very entertaining.

[@DauntlessDH]

34:43 Damn that jab at Concord while showing a Concorde was brilliant.

[@SocialisedMedicine]

I'm feeling kinda smug at my friends right now, cause I _totally called_ the underlying reason when news broke. I credit your previous videos in your series, giving me the baseline understanding to figure it out.

[@ॐIo]

The ends don't justify the means

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

@@ॐIo What does that have to do with the comment?

[@Xenephos]

I’m so glad you mentioned how Palworld is an obvious PARODY. So many people are seeing the similarities in the designs and taking it as “the designs were stolen” and not “the designs are parody” I know international standards don’t necessarily follow that line of thinking, but I saw so many people trying to claim Palworld as purely just a ripoff.

[@persel_hd]

personaly to me it's still a disign ripoff XD

[@thehotwindblowing]

Concord crashing and burning spectacularly definitely must have contributed to Sony's desperation.

[@kalamoj]

Nah, that's too recent for all this. Big corp can't work that fast. If anything the MS requisition spree in the last few years made them desperate. MS is more or less untouchable, so they took the fight elsewhere.

[@minuda]

@@kalamoj That desperation from MS has already been discussed in the video. Sony tried (and failed) to contest the acquisition, and Microsoft failing to turn around the Console Wars in spite of the acquisitions should if anything be a breather for Sony. They may produce trash, but they still have the leverage in the Console Wars. If anything, Sony's desperation against Nintendo is an aim to hurt Nintendo's presence outside the Console Wars as a third-party. They're hoping to break open the doors of the Nintendo market and drive them to Sony's hardware irregardless of Microsoft's expansion.

[@ooombasa5080]

PS5 is literally Sony's most profitable PlayStation and yet jokers in this comment are pretending they're desperate.

[@kalamoj]

@@ooombasa5080 We're not talking about that (PS5's success is undeniable) but rather Sony's plans for the next 5 or 6 years. Desperate is a bit harsh, but their position might not be as comfortable as it seems.

[@ederys_delxyde]

I really don't understand. It's not like Nintendo can *lose* Pokémon. They just have to "innovate", push a little further than what they did for years to regain the interest and trust of their customers. Palworld was not afraid to push their bondaries. Maybe Gamefreaks and Nintendo just need to... mature a bit. In any case, I will stay on the side of Palworld, just for the fact that obscurely worded patents SUCKS ASS and kill all creativity in the domain they are applied to, sometimes killing WHOLE GENRE of games because they exist.

[@RippahRooJizah]

They won't lose Pokémon but the franchise could lose intrinsic worth. Pokémon is the highest grossing multimedia franchise, you bet they are going to maintain that.

[@natalimoina]

@@RippahRooJizah yep, greed

[@netbotcl586]

So basically Nintendo can't risk having competition, and use the broken patent system to attack their competitor. To me, the worst outcome is Palworld being delisted in Japan anyway. Not from there, so I can still play it anywhere else.

[@SerDerpish]

I dod not expect this video to end with a musical number, of all things. Well done 👏🏽

[@CalliopeFive]

A surprisingly good voice and parody too!

[@Dash123456789Brawl]

Woah, wasn’t expecting Dragalia Lost to come up here! Taken too soon 😢

[@whitedragonzerureusu4480]

Yeah i was really into that and was ready to start doing things that would of gotten me to end-game stuff. Then they announced it's closure :/ It was a fun game and I really liked the characters and their stories. Makes me wish it came out as a 3DS game so i could of kept it forever...

[@AldricM]

Same, I miss watching Emile fail upwards thru seasonal events and the Wagabound Pupper. Really the one gacha game I was super in love with :(

[@ryanandida8618]

So excited to see this video getting lots of attention! Your videos are so well-researched and made with genuine passion.

[@luipaardprint]

‘Philips, the toothbrush people’ and coincidentally the inventors of the cd. As a Dutchmen that actually stung a little.

[@ExtremeWreck]

Well to be fair, I'd assume 90% of the population would see CDs as a purely Japanese invention considering Sony's involvement with the CD alongsie Philips.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

...and the inventors of Cassetes.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 Again, most people even back then would have no idea it was a Dutch thing & would assume it was either a Japanese or American invention.

[@SquidHominid]

Hey Moony, great video. I just wanted to give some small corrections. Firstly, there is an aspect to Japanese patent law and the COLOPL lawsuit you somewhat glossed over. There's a strong culture in the video game industry in Japan to patent anything they come up with, no matter how insignificant, as a form of denialism. A patent held by Nintendo protects the entire industry from a patent troll getting to it first, and there is a social contract that the big players won't sue each other because they're all violating each other's patents. Mutually assured destruction. The problem is that COLOPL patented the idea of an adaptive joystick in mobile games (and note prior art by Nintendo for this patent did exist, in Super Mario 64 DS), but started actually *trying to enforce the patent*. The Nintendo lawsuit was, then, motivated by COLOPL violating the social contract to begin with, similar to your stated motivation with Nintendo, Sony, and Pocketpair. S̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶C̶r̶e̶a̶t̶u̶r̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶n̶c̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶a̶n̶y̶.̶ ̶I̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶A̶P̶E̶ ̶I̶n̶c̶.̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶E̶a̶r̶t̶h̶B̶o̶u̶n̶d̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶m̶i̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶y̶ ̶G̶e̶n̶ ̶1̶ ̶P̶o̶k̶e̶m̶o̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶a̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶b̶t̶l̶e̶ ̶E̶a̶r̶t̶h̶B̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶s̶.̶ Edit: Disregard my second point, see comment by @toumabyakuya

[@toumabyakuya]

*"Secondly, Creatures Inc wasn't a new company."* He was speaking in short form. In his prior video he explains what you said.

[@SquidHominid]

​@@toumabyakuyafair, I hadn't watched that video yet. The other point still stands.

[@gabrielbn]

He also has another video on IP law that says exactly what you did about the Colopl lawsuit. You are correct though. Edit: on second thought, I may have been misremembering the Thomas Game Docs video mentioned below.

[@isaac10231]

Out of curiosity how do you have expertise in this area, it's pretty niche.

[@SquidHominid]

@@isaac10231 There was a Thomas Game Docs video released a few months ago (predating the Pocketpair lawsuit) that was specifically about the COLOPL lawsuit, with extensive, meticulous sources in the description if you want to dig deeper into it, including corroborating statements made by former Nintendo employees.

[@hotworlds]

Thank you so much for this, I can't stand random gaming controversy KZbinrs saying this is going to destroy creativity in video games forever

[@Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW]

He doesn't make the claim it won't...he's just saying Nintendo is scared by Sony. Creativity (at least for mons games, like Dragon Quest, that predated Pokemon) of medium and large devs will still get trampled, as collateral damage, if Nintendo wins.

[@lpfan4491]

@@Nebulon-B_Frigate_FTW Only if Nintendo actually follows up on it(Which may happen, but they always seemed more passive than active, only doing warning shots towards a handful times over the years). Remember, there is no law without police.

[@dave9515]

@@lpfan4491 You are forgetting how all companies will react if nintendo wins this. It will start a domino effect one you clearly lack intuition and foresight to see. Its so obvious how many patent claims will get abused out of nowhere after if nintendo wins. You really are a blind consumer.

[@lpfan4491]

@@dave9515 You genuinely think this is the first patent suit by a big company?

[@wrldonwill]

No "Nintendo Bad", just concise information about law and gaming.

[@ॐIo]

Instead "PlayStation Bad", how profound. Rudimentary points with clear biases. The only good take away was on how Japanese law works, not on how Nintendo operates.

[@uberculex]

@@ॐIo No, it's just "certain companies hate each other"

[@twaggytheatricks4960]

@@ॐIo "Playstation bad"? I'm surprised that's what you got from this. What I got was "Playstation desperate for a number of historical reasons with regards to their personal history with nintendo". There is no real good or bad here, since I wouldn't exactly call Nintendo "good", they're both businesses. Oh, and what Uberculex said. "Certain companies hate each other."

[@ॐIo]

@@uberculex The way he covered the Nintendo PlayStation fallout debacle and PlayStation's current circumstance are simply inaccurate. So that is what I felt. The new upcoming Zelda movie is hype

[@aaroncporter]

@@ॐIo It's interesting how just a few comments up from here someone said the video's points are basically that "nintendo bad" and this is your take. Seems more like it just the general facts around the whole thing and the history of the parties involved and how these actions can affect the future of the biggest media franchise of all time.

[@WhchOneIsMe]

To be fair, the statement at 19:58 was because of all the people reporting to Nintendo about the models people were alleging might be ripped and modified hence specifically mentioning assets

[@Only_Some]

well i thought it was a pokemon game. i hope Nintendo wins this....

[@horrorfan117]

@@Only_Some So while Sony is obviously the aggressor here I hope they win for two reasons. 1) The pokemon IP has languished and withered on the vine due to the lack of a true competitor in the field. Palword is the exact kick Nintendo needs to think twice about getting lazy with their IPs. Any damage to the Pokemon brand has been well deserved in my opinion. 2) The market is always better with actual competition. If Sony loses this it'll probably be one of the final nails in the coffin for Sony in the video game market. Despite it's... questionable practices when it comes to cultivating their IPs I think the market is far better with Sony in the mix than without. Bonus reason: If patents are going to be used as the weapons of choice between these two I could see this opening up a whole can of worms between Sony and Nintendo again. With Sony probably holding far more tech patents it could potentially trigger retaliatory lawsuits. Tying up a lot of resources from both companies.

[@diablo.the.cheater]

@@Only_Some I hope Nintendo does not, and I say this as a Nintendo fanboy. Palworld is just too good of a game to be lost, it captures the essence of what a pokemon game is sold as better than the actual pokemon games.

[@RippahRooJizah]

​@@horrorfan117How is Sony the aggressor? I do hope Pocketpair comes through this but even I admit of they lost it's because of their actions, not Sony's.

[@dsshocktrooper7523]

​@@Only_Somewhy?

[@DW_17.]

Thank you for shedding light on this problem that people fail to understand "including myself but I ignored it"

[@MrDariox555]

Man, I just love these kinds of videos. They feel like the perfect mix of law, culture and economics. This one is no different. Truly, main monitor, dinner-time content. Any chance the public gets to see the actual suit anytime soon? Is that a thing in Japan? In Chile all suits are by default public, with some exceptions (such as family law, money laundering and sexual crimes), but I don't know if that's common overseas. Anyways, thanks for another great video!

[@ArtemisWasHere]

28:36 too many individuals proclaim many things *about* many things But in actuality have very poor understanding of the full scope of said thing, they make their assumptions and don’t bother to look into it beyond maybe one or two googles. Tis’ what I love about this channel It is an *actual lawyer* talking about legal matters in the games industry and not some schmuck online who doesn’t actually understand law, and yet proclaim that what they say is the proper legality about the thing.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

MANNY "Actual lawayer" talk shit all the time Both trained and untrained After all they said "dont take this as legal advice" so watever they said cant beat them in the ass apart from public opinion So Moonie here could be an actual lawyer, or a smart enough person to underestand japanese society and law For example, i underestand law because i study to be an accountant, i need to underestand it and how it changes, yet i am not lawyer, but could use this lnowledge and learn some more to be an actual lawyer, or better than one as i have buisness knowledg too. That is why i took EVERY Expert with a Punch of salt. As they could be being paid to said thing, doso because is popular or would cause drama, or they genuinely this is happening and yet be wrong because they dont have INSIDER knowledge. As this could settle out of court at any moment too and just be forgoten by next weak

[@ॐIo]

This Lawyer was full of opinions

[@Drakenwild]

I love the explanation, law is super complex regardless if it's American or Japanese but the way you explain it makes it feel very approachable. Also, your singing voice is great!

[@andrewharris1344]

Regardless of who wins Pokémon isn’t going anywhere. It’s been to successful for to long and if the leaks have taught use anything the developers aren’t “ running out of ideas”. And many people still care for this franchise despite its many flaws similar to Dragon Ball. Plus I’m sure when ZA comes out no one’s gonna care about this, because as consumers where not obliged to care about any of this. Not saying that Palworld shouldn’t exist I’m personally indifferent to the game as I don’t care for shooters, However this competition is getting tiring and has helped neither side.

[@WokioWolfy]

This is true, I have realized something now seeing how people have been in this whole irony pandemic online that, people really do not care about anything. If a thing is bad, it isn't the consumer's fault that this product is going under, much like what is happening with the animation industry. It is, however, another thing entirely when a musician, in a concert, is talking about some deep meaning and sincere stuff about life and someone is going in the background saying: "yes mommy." That is just attention seeking.

[@andrewharris1344]

@ I’m mostly just tired of the ones acting like they truly care about palworld v pokemon even though they barely play games. And even when mentioned it’s usually one sided where palworld is flawless and Pokémon is horrible there’s no middle ground, my similar problem with indie animation vs Disney/WB animation where the bigger is always negative compared to the other. Like guys their both good and bad. Plus getting rid of one doesn’t make something better it just makes more centralization.

[@snintendog]

@@andrewharris1344 Ew you like the Pedo WB shit they canceled?

[@andrewharris1344]

@@snintendog I don’t even know what your talking about canceled what.

[@D3adCl0wn]

"However this competition is getting tiring and has helped neither side." As you said it yourself, this is the outcome Nintendo wants. When a supposed competitor to one of their IP expands like they did with The Pokemon Company in 1996, they are all hands on deck to bring it down. It's a classic scorched earth tactic, and Nintendo can tank that compared to Pocket Pair.

[@nobody_fear]

really informative and easy to understand. the music was perfect; interesting, but not too distracting. keep doing what you're doing, moon. cya next time!

[@CatbagCats]

I want a 10-hour video of you saying "Pocket Pair" because I like the way you say it

[@zamboozle3741]

you ever have those moments where you're hanging out in the garden and you decide to flip over one of the stepping stones, only to find an entire ecosystem of bugs crawling away back into the safety of the exposed dirt? that's what this video and its revelations about the sony connection to palworld feels like

[@sorcerousfang]

3:54 Was not expecting Ao3 to pop up there, lol.

[@danielvaega]

This is great value for a video. Informative, fun (without trying too hard), calm with agency, 10 outta 10 .