J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1976 - The Transformation of Man - 6 - Images and consciousness

J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1976 - Small Group Discussion 6 - Images and consciousness
Summary:
What will bring about a radical transformation in the total consciousness of human beings?
Right relationship begins with the realization of the responsibility I have for myself.
Is the observer different from that which is observed? If there is a difference between the observer and the observed there is division, and therefore conflict.
My consciousness is the consciousness of the world because it is filled with the things of thought sorrow, fear, pleasure, despair, attachment. In that state you cannot have any relationship with any human being.
When there is no movement of thought, which is the image-making, what then takes place? When there are none of the things that create division, what comes into being?
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[@jonathanspruance4502]

These talks are precious treasures of humanity.

[@kamusbanak4168]

Indeed.

[@kooroshrostami27]

Sadly, this is perceived by very few people even though it is available to billions.

[@girinathprthi]

Entire dialogue can be be summarised into one sentence- "When you see the observer is the observed, the image making process stops i.e. the movement of thought. As you have no image anymore, the thought ends and content of consciousness undergoes a transformation like nothing we have even seen". In a way time ends. It's too difficult to see this as we are all conditioned. But why on earth no one even came to this reasoning at all about we are living and problems in that. Krishnamurti is probably the only one realised about the turmoil we all go through and it's beginning/source.

[@kunalarora927]

ME DOES NOT EXIST

[@jimmybolton8473]

Why do i see that whenever i want. Doesnt seem like that big of deal. Well it did the first time i had an outer body experience. It’s whatever now.😢

[@coursefacilitator2342]

When do u see it? where do u see it? when 'u' see the observer? what is this 'u'? isnot it an observer? haha

[@spider161]

People have been trying to say it for a long time, krishna and bohm really worked well together to get the message very clear.

[@kooroshrostami27]

A lot of people have said that actually, just in different words. The problem is that usually this fact was wrapped up in some mysticism or philosophy and hence turned into an idea.

[@em18192]

Ahhh David bohm I love your care! I cry when he speaks into things his care is so beautiful

[@Scott-M1]

He has a great way of putting himself in someone else's shoes. That is compassion.

[@tovylixir3621]

Could be a curiosity or a challenge that he he would like to know about. I think K is truly the living hope that a life of the mind has more to offer over other pursuits.

[@balubudhathoki977]

Your comment sounds interesting but i could not understand!

[@jenniferlee5871]

“How can all this touch my life”? He says, after so much discussion - and admitting that his concepts may seem vague and distant to the average person. I appreciate how he takes his intelligence back to being useful to society and aiding others. Not just among scientist and physicists and philosophers.

[@Jimmy-el2gh]

You are the discussion Jenn❤

[@khimpun1346]

krisnamurti is liberated man.every word of j.k. has real wisdom

[@dolganthecute]

A clever hair in the soup?

[@vegadeva7968]

This is the clearest that I have seen of Krishnamurti pointings, Thank you for publishing these images!!

[@anjezx8361]

this is a wonderful real 'live' talk recording... vividly talking 'together' as if no camera..., not talking on "memory" but just as it comes... afresh..., no "agenda", no "acting", absence of "ego-battle", no script, not a "speech", no rhetoric tricks, no crooked "hypnotech nlp babbling" in the farthest distance and nowhere a trace of manipulation, not wanting to "convince" and no contest in who has the greatest argumentation skill or such silly issue, but open to understand the "view" of one-another and so the talk is an 'undivided whole'..., enthusiasm, not creating problems, sharing living knowledge without attitude of secrecy and without being stuck in knowledge... even without what is being shared necessarily defined as knowledge at all..., not deluded, not seem to want a particular "conclusion", interested in listening, communion, basic equality, free in where the talking together can go and the only direction seems 'bringing clarity'

[@rockyrai7314]

Ultimate, Superb, Phenomenal Visionary showing us the way. Very Insightful. He has Unique way of catharsis the Mind and Soul.

[@bennytrinh3327]

This clarity discussion is beautiful, and powerful.

[@saileshkumar-dy5vo]

plzzzzzzzzz everyone i beg you plzz understand this realize this..once you realize this you will understand what jk shown you my god tears of joy with full of compassion flowing within me

[@francescovitale7548]

La compassione di krishnamurty ti apre il cuore solo a guardarlo senza ascoltare le parole

[@isoletesasse5441]

Olá...😊"O observador é a coisa observada...." Quando se vê realmente esse fato, TUDO se faz Novo...👀❤🙏 Gratidão por essa sabedoria compartilhada conosco....🙏❤

[@Gaurav.P0]

True

[@corpuscallosum4677]

Men live in a relative world but try, time immemorial. to be in absolute truth using this "I-ness", I-observe-phenomena. A thought created existence when mundane physical part is taken care of: eating, excreting and pro-creating (we're also the animal that prolong this in the name of conditional love beyond instincts). Tracing back, diving down to this center and we will see how torrential, instantaneous this self-centered thoughts-created-entity are acting in all relational problems/fleeting pleasure. True action, what K's pointing out all his life, can happen when this "I-ness" cease, no I-observe-situations, but only no registration, no images, no self-centered thoughts, but the energy of the whole humanity acting through this vessel, in all situations, all relations, moving. Thanks K and friends.

[@mariechong7280]

JK nailed it !

[@maiteyailengarciacarallero8811]

La sofferenza che ho riconosciuto in me è la stessa che vedo nel mondo e attorno a me, sono il mondo e il mondo è me, è stato quello che mi ha portato qui ad ascoltare attentamente con il cuore in mano. Accogliendo le parole di sir: J. Krishnamurti sento un nodo in gola nello stomaco, mi viene da piangere seguito di gioia resto qui con ciò che ho. Grazie di pubblicare queste conversazioni Grazie di cuore.

[@francescovitale7548]

Si condivido ogni parola che hai detto ho provato lo stesso ❤

[@MaiteYailenGarciaCarralero]

​@francescovitale7548 🙂 🙏

[@renanlira6140]

This is pure gold. I cant stop listening to it.

[@francescasalatti2670]

Nonostante sia solo un video Krisnamurti ti trasmette tutto il suo vero amore verso tutti gli esseri umani...incredibile ❤

[@ivanvega1535]

The conjuring trick is an amazing way to explain that the perceptions of the me deceive us.

[@grahaminglis4242]

This dialogue is extremely significant to anyone who has been serious about K’s teachings and begins to explore the vast network of images that pervades the inner and outer psychological world of our personal and common understanding of human consciousness. The mainstream view of psychology and psychiatry is still based on divisions between the conscious and the unconscious mind as K demonstrated here with Dr Shainberg who tried to sidestep the issue when K puts the question directly to him (representing professionals) who are trained to find pathology out of the movement in consciousness. To listen carefully to the questions discussed in this session and the next one, many questions around what distinguishes K from others who are regarded in some circles of society as experts in psychological/religious instruction, becomes clearer. In my situation, the questions discussed about the effects of thought processes around images and entering into what a state of mind with no images would be like is a critical aspect of my inquiry into changing my daily living patterns in accordance with K’s teachings and whether the facts thus emerging from my enquiring can be integrated into the inner workings of my own states of consciousness?

[@ledarbyromeo9667]

I'm glad I found you

[@fusiongautam1699]

Damn

[@kooroshrostami27]

To cut the "mainstream view" some slack, those psychologists and doctors are only examining fragmented brain all the time, so it's kind of understandable how they assume (on the basis of limited experience) that there were no other.

[@DPLS77]

45:28 - 46:30 that segment cleared all my confusion. Bohm: "thought is moving and creating an image as if it were looking but nothing is being seen. Therefore there is no observer." The moment Bohm said that, it was clear that he understands what K is saying. It is a bit tricky to see and understand what K is saying. It's feels like one is trying to look at the back of ones own head, but this is actually possible.

[@kooroshrostami27]

The word observer implies that there is something that is being observed, the word observed implies there is an observer. If the 2 are indifferent, then both are illusory.

[@sbrave6572]

So many of us are extremely grateful to Dr Bohm…. A little part of me felt so troubled when I found out that he was depressed in his last years … maybe it’s the image making within me that really really wished he could have understood this movement of thought ( and it’s pitfalls) sooo deeply he could be at peace…. He was a gem of a human being / scientist that reaaaaaally wanted / was seeking solutions for humanity’s biggest issues ( war/ human conflict , environment etc etc ) I almost feel confident he wasn’t worried for himself, but for humanity …. Am of course speculating here … with tremendous respect. . If there is at all anything called an after-life, I hope he is very very much at peace n in harmony! The best way to show respect to these gems is to respect all of Humanity and be serious about one’s own change…. Best wishes to all! 💪🙏🙂

[@renukatandon7463]

Hi.All is made so clear in episode 6 and 7.Image maker,Supreme Energy and their role in ignorance and knowledge explained so well step by step.We have it, K made us see it.Thanks a lot.

[@Viral_Catalyst]

This is IT, one doesn't need any other clarity! Thank you from Pune. 🙏

[@watcher1927]

The moment you say 'This is IT',you have confined it, hence it no longer is the truth. IT has become an idea, a thought. Still i get what you say..or want to say

[@yanry7152]

@@watcher1927 what a reply This is it i want know Now i will never say "This is it" in my life and That's it.

[@Gaurav.P0]

@@yanry7152 JK is telling to observe/look at the image without observer. If there is no observer then who is looking at image ??

[@kiranthorvat3255]

@@Gaurav.P0 There is nobody who is looking but its only a pure 'Observaion'.

[@atomatman3104]

love thiese guys all of them.

[@AnthonyHoward-ru8su]

The consideration and responsibility associated with love is a good place to begin with taking a move towards a radical transformation

[@mkcobain]

“Inside you there’s an artist you don’t know about… say yes quickly, if you know, if you’ve known it from before the beginning of the universe.”― Jalaluddin Rumi

[@dembo1981]

Yet just another guru superstition. Sounds romantic, he probably sold few books filled with such nonsense. Separating reality into inner "divine" self and outer self.Classic guru shop for fools

[@anamvive]

From 20:20 Bohm explain “thought as system” Genius...

[@yeshajariwala]

The image making ends i.e thoughts.The human ego is no more.Time stops..The Transformation thats place in conscious.Then the new energy erupts which transforms into real Love and compassion.

[@michaelgregurek9705]

jagdish jariwala So has this changed your life? I have seen it for the first time.

[@michaelgregurek9705]

jagdish jariwala So has this changed your life? I have seen it for the first time.

[@yeshajariwala]

Michael Gregurek It is very difficult to get transformed. The fear and attachments family responsibilities are the greatest hurdle to achieve truth.

[@michaelgregurek9705]

jagdish jariwala Did you watch all the talks? This talk (discussion 6) conveyed to me very clearly that "the observer is the observed". I have obviously heard him say it a million times but I never actually saw it for myself. As a result I can see the "clear perception" that has for most of one's life been distorted. He calls it order. Anyway, I think you mean the 'image' of your family and your life is hard to let go of because, as they address in this discussion, to let go of one's image is a death of that image when considering the long and solid survival of that image over a long time in someone's daily life. Anyway, I have studied this for many years and I'm just wondering if others have understood actually what these people are talking about.

[@tovylixir3621]

+Michael Gregurek with all respect to you, in India a married man cannot simply put it down to "images" as a cause to want out of his marriage. It's in our religions, myths, society to make men and women see marriage and family life as "duties" in the strictest, unromantic sense. He knows he will be free from these "duties" in due course, there is a place for that too in Indian traditions, but for now duty calls! Anyway, I wish the old chap good luck and to you too my friend🙏🏽

[@Jontheinternet]

We completely underestimate the inter workings of memory, thought, and emotion. Feelings have a past present and can influence thoughts and thinking and even hijack them and vice versa

[@san2k6pat]

"Is observer something made up as reality from the thought or is it the real me like nature which is devoid of thought ? " "if me is the observer which is created by thought then actually that entity doesn't observe the observed at all it has to be given another name " Dr Bohm has really made it simple . So one person sanely can put off all the images just by observation that the Observer which we are making to act on the observed, also has the same movement of images in it which will create conflict with the observed Now question is why we endlessly depend on the observer to solve the problems of the observed???

[@shay712]

Thought is conditioning and creates an image. I am an American, middle class, a Christian, an introvert, a good cook, a banker, a wife, a jogger. Thought makes an image of "me" or "I-ness". Is there a "me" or "I-ness" without thought? Thought is stubborn and says "all these experiences make up "me" thus perpetuating an image of "me". Thought also says "now let's look at me", creating an illusion of a separate observer. Thought is actively creating the image and passively watching the image.

[@michaelodriscoll]

Observing, no judging, no comparison, just Attentively Listening, Observing... watching, looking, the monkey brain stops in that effortless response of Seeing, Listening, Learning, Experiencing, The Essence of Love. Namaste 🙏

[@habi7630]

A dog is being observed. If there is no observer, love is all there is. If love is absent, then _that which exists_

[@rodneytapit5636]

yes, thought fragments and talks to its own thought fragments - the cook tells the jogger i better get home and cook now and the wife says yes before he gets home.

[@krox477]

It's like I'm the problem solving my own problems

[@krox477]

We're all fragmented people education only teaches you enough to earn livelihood but never transcend you limited mind

[@OnePercentBetter]

40:03 Dr Shainberg ego backlash 💥 41:03 Bohm goes for the direct hit 🎯

[@alexandruconstantin9719]

Mulțumesc ❤🤝❤🙏

[@francescasalatti2670]

Grandissimi grazie ❤❤❤

[@ourloveourjourney215]

This was sooooooo good!! :) 🙏❤️‍🔥

[@andreigb4476]

energy îs joy , peace, happyness

[@rockyrai7314]

Simply we have No PERSON, No SELECTOR, No DOER siting inside us. We r an ACTIVITY not an ENTITY. 🙏

[@tovylixir3621]

I feel K is like my old school dorm mistress. All prim and wanting to beat the shit out of your " naughty conditioning" with the back of his slipper! Till you get your head on straight. And that smile😃

[@her26mlifecount21]

Omg!!!! Finished! Clear!

[@francescoricciardiello6123]

Fantastico !

[@DihelsonMendonca]

*Imagine in the same room for a debate, Kant, Freud, Nietzche, kierkegaard, Krishnamurti...*

[@rodneytapit5636]

Not a good idea because they would complicate the hell out of it.

[@kooroshrostami27]

Nietzsche would say: I affirm my image and accept all the pain that goes along with it. I am strong enough to bear that suffering for all eternity, not only for this life, but even the eternal perpetuation of it. Freud would say: The image making is in our genes, it cannot be dissolved. Kant was too much in love with his mechanical life, the discussion would either not touch him or make him go insane. The man was obsessed with routine, in fact he was so mechanical, you could look at the clock and know exactly what he would be doing at this very minute.

[@rameshchandra1696]

Vipassana is the answer to become aware of all the images - flattery, pleasure and how to respond/react to it or not to. Ten days in absolute silence of Vipassana does all the magic.

[@mytravolution6973]

Vipassana is 1 of the answers. 😌🙏

[@sabvrao]

It does… and repeating the 10 days ( and life itself) seems to keep uncovering the “deeper” images … I hope to do another Vipassana session, armed with JK teachings …

[@mohitverma6140]

Vipassana is a method which turns into another image? Who is doing the Vipassana? The doer?

[@ladikapoor9296]

@@mohitverma6140 agree..

[@sachinrathi020]

Repetitive techniques like Vipasana are nothing more than mental masturbation

[@prettyp4925]

Great

[@san2k6pat]

@Gaurav Observe the observed or content or thoughts about past future etc. with fresh eyes and mind and slowly transformation of the content to reality takes place or way we observe the world will be without abstractions

[@gentiantafa4619]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@WishfulCreation]

I think the point at the end of the video is that if consciousness realizes that the observed is the observed, that there would be no difference between yourself and the totality of your experience. Is that death? The ending of thought; is that death? If that is death, then death becomes the very experience of your life as it is. There just isn't a separate image of your Self or "I". In the same sense that another person is alive, but doesn't feel like you. They feel like they have a separate "I". So, even when physical death occurs, life continues.

[@Listen2BAware]

Thank you!

[@_ANUJ__]

32:41 there is a spider on dr. bohm ear

[@DrDangngochung]

Nice observing bro.

[@storiedivitavera1518]

In some way this is a reality , but it is not the only one ...there's some talk of , what it is you? And if maybe i can go forward , it can be really helpful if ... Maybe i can relax my rage and start to create a better place for me and everyone around me

[@michaeldelisieux5252]

The whole "social contract" (I.e. interacting with "the other(s)", relationships, etc) is a trap. The biggest one.

[@san2k6pat]

40 to 42 : me is made of the past (that includes future too)

[@alexandruconstantin9719]

🤗❤🤗🙏

[@Scott-M1]

16:50 It seems the weather disagrees!, haha.

[@renanlira6140]

50:37 I love how K got S really right there 😂

[@vikassaini6320]

I don't understand the part where he says. "Relationship is the most important in life and images are preventing us from having relationships". But if I take a simple relationship like a sister. I have this relationship only because I have a image of myself being a brother, isn't it. So which makes images the bases for all relationships. If someone could clear this up ? Thanks

[@ratheesh7806]

That image is part of biological relations, which is a fact. They are talking about psychological images. If a brother knows that someone is his sister, there is no problem, but if he creates psychological ideas about her just because they are biologically related, then that relationship is still false.

[@annelbeab8124]

Or perceiving her carrying an image of her, made of memories and recognition, like a filter over her true aliveness as a real living being. The issue is that for a true relationship between humans, both would need to have that deep burning interest to inquire, to meet anything and anybody anew. That's rare. Very rare. Which may induce a sense of tremendous loneliness in oneself. It takes exactly that bravery to 'come into life' properly. Maybe then there may be other humans carrying the same passion and care.

[@Jontheinternet]

Can you dump images when they are simultaneously heaped at you at every direction? Stillness? Silence?

[@Gaurav.P0]

JK is telling to observe/look at the image without observer. If there is no observer then who is looking at image ??

[@san2k6pat]

Blank mind without any content i.e any past or future .... same as nature with fresh mind

[@kooroshrostami27]

Yes we always insist that there needs to be someone who is thinking, doing, looking, but that's because of our language. Our language (in fact every language) requires subject-object-dichotomy. But he is saying that the 2 are in fact identical, that is thought has invented the division between subject and object, observer and observed etc, it is not real. In reality there is only the movement of thought happening in the brain, there is no thinker doing thinking, nobody is looking. But since thought has created language, this confusion that there is a subject of action being seperate from it's object of action is built into our verbal communication. To put it another way, is it possible for there to be awareness of the fact that thought has created the illusory division between observer and observed.

[@KINGJUNAID555]

@@kooroshrostami27 exactly thinker is the thought... there is no thinker if there is no thought...

[@MaiteYailenGarciaCarralero]

😊

[@pumuckel378]

If u look now at all this Multyuniverse Theorys. What cant of an splittet mind has created it?

[@Jontheinternet]

When some want to try to live this way and butt against this who don't, does it seem viable?

[@Blueskyclouds1971]

Could you put the video in Arabic translation please?

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Let me use another word.. If i close my eyes , nobody it exists... I can immagine, i can create an immage of another, i can create another reality, exc.. but it is in me ... But in the meantime i can listen outside , so... I can understand me it is inside , I can't really have anything outside , it is an immagination to have something outside you but ... If i touch someone i can feel someone , even the other, but it have an experience different , condivise but different , more i touch with weight more i separate myself with the other , i create a wall for not have a real response , but it can have , the weight behind that it is a responsibility of the other if it creates a response without silence , even the silence it is , but if i can't really listen i create a wall for not seeing the other and don't have the responsibility of the other , don't want ... Nothing to be ashamed but you need to understand If i talk i can say a lie like not , so it is my response to find if i can really understand , if , and if i understand i can really response in a way everyone can find a point of benefits , so everyone wins and no war can be included So a real communication it is the key It is a responsibility of someone to stay in a reality or in another , and to find a point everyone don't need to put their reasons up in another It is the responsibility of the ppl if an entire system goes down , not by only one , it is not only his movement , his work , alone can't do anything It can be done?

[@user-mw3ji3rv6k]

DS agrees the truth is a pathless land, but he nevettheless wants to throw some stones along the way.

[@preanevinovatul]

Freeeeeeeeedddddooooooooommmm!!!!!!

[@pedrosanchezdelmonton9995]

What's the relationship between spirituality and philosophy? Do both them go by the same path or are different ways?

[@krox477]

There's no such thing as philosophy separate from spirituality.

[@annelbeab8124]

It works both ways...

[@ramongomez8849]

🙏🏻

[@sabinebachmann5213]

,,,, es möglich wäre es möglich auf Deutsch zu übersetzen danke

[@robertopuccianti8498]

🌻💚🙏

[@seanfrank32]

I have a hard time listening to K talk to these two. Bohm alone I could handle somewhat, but who invites this other dude?

[@Viral_Catalyst]

@TheRmtrmt Sorry I find it bit harsh , he does have some goood observations like the time sequence he explains as 3, 5 ,7 and the separate me who is looking at it. Thanks to his genuine honesty despite being vulnerable we the viewer get to travel that further . Which is a rare thing. And when K says stick with it, thats the moment of lightening. 😇 I am thankful to the other guy. 🙏

[@nandkishorkoli362]

Just a silence to listen

[@dembo1981]

The shrink guy is a master of theorycrafting, the moment dialog approaches something brilliant, he just drives it away to another abstract superstition. Never takes time to look, just saying yes, yes, yes....

[@maheshkb9781]

45:15 Is observer different from the observed.

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Anyway it is funny , people listen more sky and observe earth , but ... If I can stay to sky , for speak or play music ... Can someone have the courage to attach that? After everyone knows it is innocuous?

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Maybe yes , but with persistence , it become futile to attach that?

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Food , smile , a lightfull , less weight , ambience , ecc... Like in the story ive say , i think there is all , the only thing is , when? Because there not any errors , only thing doit in a non adapt moment

[@storiedivitavera1518]

And if someone it doesn't be there and want to immage there is what it thik , why don't let believe

[@didiksugito8637]

Tlong dong admin sediakan bahasa indonesia

[@jayantatul7530]

He says observer is the observed, and then that there is no observer . Then who is observing ??

[@d1kkop]

Both are the same. There is no seperation. Only thought can bring seperation. When thought is not, there is unity, no seperation. The moment 'you' observe, you have created a sense of self (ego) which seperates you from the observed. So when the self (ego, thought) is totally vacant, then there is unity which is: there is no seperation between you and the world. You are the world.

[@viveksurya1143]

@@d1kkop how to achieve that no thought state

[@DihelsonMendonca]

@@d1kkop is it possible to observe without a self ? Look, I watch many lectures, for instance, with Eckhart Tolle, and he make a distinction between the ego and the self. The self would be the "essence", pure. The one who only observe without inquire, without judgement, it´s what we really are. The ego, on the other way, is a construction. So, is it possible to observe only using the pure consciousness ? 01 - This perfect, pure, self "essence" survives after death ?

[@DihelsonMendonca]

@@viveksurya1143 The problem is that is no "how". You have to discover by yourself. K didn´t left any map.

[@kooroshrostami27]

The problem here is that what he says cannot be put into words adequately. Our language (in fact every language) requires subject-object-dichotomy. But he is saying that the 2 are in fact identical, that is, thought has invented the division between subject and object, thinker and thought etc, it is not real. In reality there is only the movement of thought happening in the brain, there is no thinker doing thinking, no observer observing. But since thought has created language, this confusion that there is a subject of action being seperate from it's object of action is built into our verbal communication.

[@universuliubirii7934]

Is love

[@SohamShivoham]

45:32

[@MAYBE673]

14:15 Dr. Shainberg is not making any sense. He seems confused about the most basic things

[@goodtimes9638]

6:39

[@albertozevi2139]

49:13

[@ikaeksen]

RANDOM Question: What is the opposite of a universe? . -.- (Its not allowed to say it is an empthy universe/empthy space.) -.-

[@camneocare]

Both the guys sit like kindergarten kids in front of k. It’s just that B is a better kid.

[@synchronicity67]

Think the third man(I don't know who he is) must be really having a nagging wife😉 he could take his wife out to a nice dinner n movie or something she enjoys!

[@Lavishb6226]

15:50

[@souravdas-zp1kt]

26:15.

[@MrAndreist96]

The guy to K's right is hilarious

[@Zara-um1nx]

❤❤🙏

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Ok , lets talk about a tactic of peace... There is tactics of war , why no tactic of peace ... In the end I don't know Ok lets say what it is a conversation responsabile... When everyone have the ability of response without needed a wall? It is a thing I don't create a wall and someone take advantage ? Or it is a common sense of everyone ? A granted response What is a conversation irresponsible?... When everyone don't have an ability to response , only the ability of create a wall for less loss? Wall even invisible So how i can find a conversation responsable when there's not? Firstly everyone needs to understand what it is human being , an union who cant work with war of reason? You can work when everyone put their reasons up another? You can talk , have the ability to respond , if no one understands what is an union ? So you need to , first let understand , and second let understand nobody wants a war , at everyone , ppl , up , down , let talk ppl to everyone , let talk up to everyone , let's talk down to everyone , in one part like another like other parts in other terrain , but everyone needs to have the possibility to understand what its going on in the concrete , in the limit of possible , and not machinations or , but the part of human being ... There an invisible wall , needs to be understood this wall it is not needed And i want to say one of my best moment of peace , the only one with someone near me ... A dish , a dish cooked by the human ive got like an objective mind in her , a dish for her was the best dish she can cook , me ive seen her like a different person , not anymore my possession but an human near me , his loving smile to se me eat that , a great moment ive seen and feels everything around me , a love ive in the past who traits me like the best thing she see , me whas seeing that human it is not mine , but another human so happy for me , a loving little silence brake sometimes but the observations of the place around , nothing to talk about us , about something different that that place , the odor of that dish , a bookplates behind me , a window it have a beautiful and relaxed climate , sun , trees , sky , ecc.. A little wind , her smile , no judgment of anything , my heart full open without any needed , the sound of the fork in the plate , my hands seems like i lose i little bit of grip , Me i understand that woman , even if it is my love it is not my property , me i look around like a child to everything , the feeling of that place so hospitable , without any wall in the home , only for bedroom and bathroom... The home of my love at the moment , me i never felt so accepted in a calm silence , sometimes brake by her happiness of that dish offered and her love in that smile

[@storiedivitavera1518]

I think more we go , more we need tactics of peace , if i see the progress now...

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Even if some war can be a commercial or , another tipe of war , we don't know if someone lose his mind and do something really dangerous , i think we don't know how every terrain of this planet , called nation , hide their arms , I don't know but it is a common sense it was not so stupid I don't know if someone noticed , but we are searching for madness , everyone search , not one , not a group , not a nation , everyone.. Sometimes it is more crazy to search a sanity So pls understand my words , ive my heart in pieces lately for the ambient it was in the city , at home , at work , in smaller city , it is in pieces because i don't see an union , but only a judgmental mind of everybody , and everybody have this ... Like there is to much judges in the street , like a climate of law of anything , the only thing have less mindset of law it is in fact the law

[@storiedivitavera1518]

In some way in this world te role of power it is a play of a childish person, there's no communication , no listening, everyone took their hands and put in hears and say la la la , it is , because if someone really understand what's it is a role of power it understand it is a slavery maked by the ppl it have the responsibility , there's no listening , but there's no listening even for himself, like id say communication it is the key ... If i really understand a role of power , even a role of manipulating other , it is one of the most role of respect of me and others, because in the end , that role it is a slavery from the down , and it is , you can even say whatever you want , like ive say , la la la , you do like this.. this is why the war ... You do la la la , because you don't want to accept responsibility , it is not a complete communication, even with yourself And theres even a response ability from the down , it is , it is a work for everyone, anything it was , you cant say , it is a work of only one because only that persone work and , at the end , the work become only for him , it is natural ... I can even conquer the entire universe... It doesn't belong to me in the end , it is a conquer of nothing , it is futile... No one really wants ... Like ive sayd communication it is the key

[@storiedivitavera1518]

If you really understand this power , it is a slavery for everyone, there's no real boss , but it is a reality now , yes it is working like a childish but not by one , by everyone , a role of power it have only more response ability , or better say the responsibility for more ppl , but the ppl have there responsibility for the up ... But everyone have even the responsibility for himself because you are not your work , you have ... Only this , it can be understood by everyone? I don't know , but if ...

[@storiedivitavera1518]

Nowadays there not capacity to listen , to truly listen , so there's no ability of response... It is not a childish thing listen , can be with less weight or ... But it is not a childish thing , nowadays a child listen more than a grown man ... An understanding of communication it is the key

[@charlesp9095]

30:12 thank me later

[@Naranja1792]

Honestly I felt a little bit disturbing while watching these episodes when Dr. Shainberg interupted K or jumped to conclusions quickly with his "theories" and "victims" ...by jove can not he just listen carefully and do not wave or snap so much 😂😂 "I" was shocked

[@fineasfrog]

Yes, Dr. Shainberg demonstrated a lack of full self-awareness and he wasn't aware of the effects of his, at times, "bull in china shop" manner. Certainly less aware than would be expected from a trained psychiatrist, especially one interested in these deeper matters. Bless his heart, Dr David Shainberg, a New York psychiatrist died in 1993 according to Google. He was doing the best he could. It just goes to show us how deep and deceptive that human conditioning is. In one sense we all suffer from some version of this. Gurdjieff referred to it as Chief Feature of our personality. When we are aware of it, it can provide us with a raw energy to feed our presence. We are aware of it, we are able to feel and acknowledge it without expressing it (acting it out) or suppressing it. His was like many of us who are still suffering from the human condition. Mainly his intellect was more powerful than his presence and his ability to see and feel how his mind moved (how thought and the corresponding emotional tones moved in his experiencing). If we are not aware of chief feature, it is our greatest enemy. A simple analogy would be "we can have bad breath and not be aware of it". Similarly chief feature or our central or root compulsion that activates all our other compulsions is a blind spot for us.

[@Listen2BAware]

Both of your comments highlight the motives and less than kind perspectives of your thought. Dr S represents one side of awakening, the I attempting to conceptualize, and stay hidden as me trying to understand. You also showed your conditioning regarding what and how a psychiatrist should be based on your labeling and identification of that fact. All professions are taught using the knowledge of the past that is accepted as fact. Your me is showing very brightly. Take care.

[@ahipe5815]

Logical mind The facts are, all words are man made, mother, farther, son, daughter, brother and sister. All man made words, with huge implications. I want to challenge your mind to think, take away them words. I'm saying each baby is a replication of you! The words son's, daughters are just words, man has been tricked into replicating himself, then conditions the mind of each replication to have a seperate Identity. Divide and conquer. Identities get filled with knowledge ( occupied) that knowledge gets him to make the word the thing. The facts are, all words are man made descriptions of what you see, there not the actual the thing your describing. The words however do psychologically seperate your mind from what your describing. All knowledge is second hand, thats a fact. So each replication recieves its secondhand knowledge and becomes that knowledge. Who's controlling that knowledge? whos controlling what you see? whos controlling what you hear? whos controlling your education system? who insist on birth certificates to solidify the identity? All identities become there knowledge and experiences. Thats a fact. Only where your attention goes does your mind get influenced. Now, where is your children's attention going? Does that then reflect into society? Can you see the facts in that? What makes each identity real, is the mind. The mind makes all sensation, it also projects the image to the inside of the eyes, to make all this a physical experience real. By conditioning the mind with an identity it takes the mind from 100% to just 5%. That 5% is your identity with its memories and knowledge. What could 100% do? A child does not record at first, however learns so so fast through observation. The ingraining of the identity starts the recording process and memory in the mind. The child then fills that memory bank with knowledge its been given. With things it watches and listens to. Becoming all of that. Can you see the facts in that? A child is born nobody and has no body, until man turns the child into somebody, then it has some body and starts recording. That somebody is going to be what every that knowledge is, where the identity gives its attention, it learns, learning is merely memorising, nothing more. Real learning is discovery. Can you discover something new about yourself with knowledge? If knowledge is always old, the answer is NO. So to discover something new, you have to open your mind, bring your mind into the moment, then you can discover something new. Once you see through the lies you have been told who you are, the mind will repair itself. Freeing itself from its prison. As more fragments of the mind repaire itself, by being nothing , no identity. The mind will gain back mastery over this physical plane, bringing about heaven on earth. The knowledge man recieves creates all man made emotion, stress, jealousy, anger, violence, envy, anxiety ect.. to have any of them you have to know them, who introduced them to you and how? Are they part of your programming? Man always lives in that knowledge, bringing all the emotions from the past to the moment. Missing life as each moment slips by. This is keeping your mind trapped in psychological time, never attending the moment where it can free itself. Only in the moment can discover of truth and repair happen. All sports and entertainment are to stop you every looking inside, always occupying your mind with nonsense Distractions. See through the lies to free your mind. See through the identity and be nothing. Heaven on earth is in your grasp, with all you can imagine heaven to be. Dieing would be a choice, eating would be a choice, no illnesses, just love, happiness, joy, and peace. That's something to leave your future self. Believing the word will not repair the mind, the mind has to see through the lies itself, my words point you in the direct to look. Meditate on them.. to meditate means to think over, to ponder. Use your mind to free itself. Don't believe one word I say and question it. I love you all with everything I am, I can see how all this sounds to a human mind, open it, be all you are ❤️

[@Listen2BAware]

Thank you for this message!

[@francescovitale7548]

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[@beulahhenry153]

16:50 It seems the weather disagrees!, haha.

[@zoomooofficial]

42:27